Gmich99 Member Username: Gmich99
Post Number: 183 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 10:26 am: | |
In terms of initial vehicle quality, Ford Motor Co. is in a statistical dead-heat for second place with Japan's Toyota Motor Corp. and Nissan Motor Co., according to a new study the Dearborn automaker plans to release today. Honda Motor Co. is the quality leader. http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20070418/A UTO01/704180425 |
Karl Member Username: Karl
Post Number: 6816 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 10:41 am: | |
Gmich99, this is great news. However, unless Ford (and hopefully Chrysler & GM) can sway Consumers Reports to parrot this message for at least 5 years (like they've done for Japanese automakers) then the general public will view this as nothing more than a fluke. Unfortunately, much of the rest of the country views The Detroit News as a puppet of the Big 3, while relying on Consumers Reports as gospel. |
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 954 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 10:47 am: | |
wtf? really? |
Bobj Member Username: Bobj
Post Number: 1993 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 11:56 am: | |
My Ford Explorer has been a great buy from a quality perspective, my Jeep Liberty is another matter. I have owned 2 Toyotas, 2 Mitsubishis, 1 Volvo and a bunch of American cars. In my opinion, the quality has not always been equal, but it is now. |
Detroit53 Member Username: Detroit53
Post Number: 1 Registered: 04-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 12:06 pm: | |
No one wants to see Detroit reclaim the road more than I do. Detroit has had 25+ years to get its act together and face the threat. Outside of MI every other car is evidence that Honda Toyota Nissan succeeded where Admiral Yammamoto(sp?) failed. God grant that Ford ever builds a car that performs like the 95 Nissan I drive. 260k miles and doesn't burn oil. Am I wrong? |
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 2035 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 12:10 pm: | |
"Unfortunately, much of the rest of the country views The Detroit News as a puppet of the Big 3, while relying on Consumers Reports as gospel" yeah, that's the attitude I've encountered not only toward the News, but the Free Press and J.D. Power & Assoc., too - basically any news out of Detroit is viewed as skewed in favor of the automakers - that's where my question about the anti-Detroit/anti-Michigan attitude came from (on a different thread) (Message edited by lilpup on April 18, 2007) |
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner
Post Number: 1200 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 12:18 pm: | |
Ford pays a consultant for a study and the study reveals Ford has good quality. Is this really news or marketing? |
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 2036 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 12:28 pm: | |
^^see what I mean? |
Karl Member Username: Karl
Post Number: 6831 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 12:52 pm: | |
The target to impress is Consumers Report. Their Frequency Of Repair reports are death to the Big 3. For instance, how can GM build a model like the Suburban for as long as it has and still have it rated as "far worse than average" in nearly every category? |
Nyct Member Username: Nyct
Post Number: 31 Registered: 01-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 12:53 pm: | |
just leased an '06 ford fusion in august. no complaints here. i love her more and more each day. |
Detroit53 Member Username: Detroit53
Post Number: 2 Registered: 04-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 1:01 pm: | |
Read "The Reckoning" by David Halberstam; What has changed since that book was written? |
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 2037 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 1:29 pm: | |
I think there are incredibly mixed signals from the buying public. There's a lot of crying about being green and fuel economy but sales numbers and market demand don't seem to support it. |
Zephyrprocess Member Username: Zephyrprocess
Post Number: 341 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 1:49 pm: | |
quote:For instance, how can GM build a model like the Suburban for as long as it has and still have it rated as "far worse than average" in nearly every category? Over the lifespan of the Suburban, how many models competed against it in the "Ginormous Multipassenger Truck" category? |
Karl Member Username: Karl
Post Number: 6833 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 1:51 pm: | |
Lilpup - on the surface you are right. But if you track Consumer Reports over a long period of time, the sales figures track the ratings. Sometimes during short-term fads (Escalade, etc) it appears that consumers are not following the reports. Look long-term. Toyota = excellent longterm ratings = excellent longterm sales. Etc. |
Luckycar Member Username: Luckycar
Post Number: 13 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 1:57 pm: | |
Read "The Rise and Fall of the US Auto Industry" by Brock Yates.It's 20 years old,could have been written last week. |
Karl Member Username: Karl
Post Number: 6835 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 2:01 pm: | |
(I've posted this B4) In the '60's I recall going as a child on the Rouge Tour. Along with all the Scouts, schoolkids and tourists, on every tour were 10-15 Japanese businessmen in dark suits. How well I remember thinking "how great that they finished their business in Detroit and had time to come on this fun tour." Oy vey. |
Patrick Member Username: Patrick
Post Number: 4243 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 2:42 pm: | |
The American consumer isn't as smart as you all would like to think. Going by the words of a few magazines shows one's ignorance. |
Defendbrooklyn Member Username: Defendbrooklyn
Post Number: 113 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 2:53 pm: | |
This study means nothing...The cars surveyed were 2007's...Its not shocking to have minimal problems with a 4-month-old automobile. Reliability is all about 5 and 10 years down the line. While you are on your commute today pay attention to all the older vehicles on the road. You will notice that the majority of 10-15 year-old cars are foreign. The numbers will be a bit skewed because we are in Detroit and most people buy domestic. After living in NY and MASS it was very clear what cars lasted and what cars did not. |
Karl Member Username: Karl
Post Number: 6837 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 2:54 pm: | |
Patrick may be right, but before jumping to that conclusion, check out Consumer Report's circulation #'s and how many (!!) folks they get to participate in their Annual Auto Issue surveys. It is pretty staggering, along with the data/testing they've accumulated over the years. And now they're easily/inexpensively accessible on the web. |
Patrick Member Username: Patrick
Post Number: 4244 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 3:31 pm: | |
The way I see it is like this...will you jump off the bridge just because everyone else is? That is how I see the bulk of consumers in America today. |
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336
Post Number: 21 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 4:05 pm: | |
I have never trusted consumer reports. their testing/quality ranking methodology has never been explained to my satisfaction. too many times i have seen cars with high reliability rankings have "worse than average" predicted reliability for the current year |
Karl Member Username: Karl
Post Number: 6838 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 5:01 pm: | |
Rb336, I agree. I mention CR simply because the sales figures seem to track their ratings, year after year. |
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13
Post Number: 1535 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 6:52 pm: | |
"In terms of initial vehicle quality, Ford Motor Co. is in a statistical dead-heat for second place with Japan's Toyota Motor Corp. and Nissan Motor Co." Fine, but where does each manufacturer stand with its CAFE ratings? Quality is nothing without the MPG to go with it. |
56packman Member Username: 56packman
Post Number: 1238 Registered: 12-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 8:26 pm: | |
Detroitplanner says "Ford pays a consultant for a study and the study reveals Ford has good quality. Is this really news or marketing?" I know what you mean--Ford's vehicles are always the best selling in the world (according to them), best in class, best selling in class, yet they are always no.2 in sales. Ask any Ford employee, they'll recite chapter and verse out of the Ford times. |
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner
Post Number: 1207 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 10:48 pm: | |
Don't get me wrong, my last three cars have been Fords; and they served me well. However, you have to always consider the source of your data, who processed it, and why to determine if there are any bias to it. If this report found that "Ford cars have the quality of a Mackinaw Island horse turd, but smell worse and are less attractive" Would they publish their findings? NO! They would however fire the company that made the report and not pay them. |
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 2042 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 11:27 pm: | |
"They would however fire the company that made the report and not pay them." Why do you assume this? Not only do you insinuate Ford is lying about the good survey results but also that they don't learn from negative results and willy nilly dishonor contractual obligations. Of course they aren't going to release negative survey results - what company would? |
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit
Post Number: 1046 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 12:08 am: | |
Karl, Consumer Reports rated the Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan higher than the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry. |
Scottr Member Username: Scottr
Post Number: 491 Registered: 07-2006
| Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 12:18 am: | |
quote:This study means nothing...The cars surveyed were 2007's...Its not shocking to have minimal problems with a 4-month-old automobile. hence the reason its called 'initial vehicle quality', you're confusing initial quality with reliability. And since ALL the vehicles are new, it is a valid study. If you were comparing a 4 month old Ford to a five year old Toyota, then it would mean nothing. I would agree, however, that I would like to see the stats on the same vehicles in 3-5 years. |
Defendbrooklyn Member Username: Defendbrooklyn
Post Number: 115 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 2:51 pm: | |
oooops my bad for jumping the gun... The Milan and Fusion may have been rated higher then the Camary and Accord (i have not checked) but they are also new models... CR always states that "new models" are tricky to rate because of limited owner feedback. CR is all about trends...Time reveals all. Scottr says it best...I would also like to see the same type of study in 3-5 years... |
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981
Post Number: 547 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 3:34 pm: | |
the Mercury Milan, Ford Shelby GT-500, Ford Expedition EL and Lincoln Navigator Seroiusly people read first! The last 3 are high-end vehicles. Also, I think they are only going to make like 5000 shelbys. |
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 2045 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 3:45 pm: | |
quote:because of limited owner feedback which means that CR's ratings really are a perception based popularity contest, not verifiable scientific data involving testable failures |