  Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 401 Registered: 03-2006 |
Great idea from the Democrats - Lord help us all... We have come to the conclusion that the crisis Michigan faces is not a shortage of revenue, but an excess of idiocy. Facing a budget deficit that has passed the $1 billion mark, House Democrats Thursday offered a spending plan that would buy a MP3 player or iPod for every school child in Michigan. http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=20077040603 33 (Message edited by perfectgentleman on April 06, 2007) | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 716 Registered: 12-2006 |
That is the epitome of stupidity. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 861 Registered: 06-2006 |
I thought this was going to be a joke thread from last Sunday | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1753 Registered: 04-2005 |
Sounds like they missed their weekly electro-shock treatments or it was free crack day in Lansing. | ||
Mdoyle Member Username: Mdoyle Post Number: 53 Registered: 10-2006 |
Not the right thing to do for michigan, but some colleges have experimented with giving every incoming freshmen an ipod to use for downloading class lectures and doing asignments. Apple even has something called iTunesU were you can go online and download lectures from varoius colleges for free, some you must be enrolled in that college though. http://www.apple.com/education /products/ipod/itunes_u.html | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 402 Registered: 03-2006 |
Mdoyle - Yeah my kids have iPods, they just love listening to their teacher's lectures on them - NOT! | ||
Johnnny5 Member Username: Johnnny5 Post Number: 468 Registered: 06-2005 |
If they can do it cheaply enough it's probably not a bad idea. I have been using my MP3 player to knock some of the rust off of my Spanish (I'm planning a month long trip to Costa Rica this Fall =). It would be rather easy to lock the players so that students could only play approved lectures/classes. | ||
Motownman Member Username: Motownman Post Number: 68 Registered: 09-2006 |
As if the house dems weren't retarded enough. | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 776 Registered: 12-2005 |
quote: How much extra $$ are you willing to "contribute" each year to fund this proposed new entitlement program? The governor already wants you to pay an extra 2% on services and that was before this "non-starter" was floated. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8846 Registered: 10-2003 |
If this is the case it is stupid but I question how accurate that 'opinion' piece is. Here are a few things that jump out: Not all MP3 players are all Ipods and the cost is vastly different. It would be stupid to purchase either but that is a big inaccuracy. quote: The could be viable for economic development but they offer no real information just a broad statement and an attack. quote: Why not just print that they are going to completely bias this piece. It is an op-ed so it will be biased but you have to wonder about the 'facts' of anything in it. quote: No critique of a single cut? quote: The words 'nearly identical' are pretty important in this case. If they are nearly identical I would be curious to hear the differences. Whether it be MP3s or I-pods spending 1 cent on it would be an ignorant waste of taxpayer dollars but I wonder if this is something that was floated in conversation and nothing more or if there is some substance behind it. We need cuts and we need leadership but how much of this is based on real ideas or things just floated out in a brain (or brainless) storming session? | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 8895 Registered: 12-2003 |
IF they were devices that could actually digitally record a lecture the student attended...then the children were taught to transcribe what they heard the second and third time through (or however more listens it takes), adding to the notes they took the first time 'round...then this is a fine idea. Overdue, actually. THAT would help them learn, retaining much more than simply trying to make notes with ONE passing of the class...especially with the rampant ADD/ADHD from over a generation of television babysitting screwing up their wee brainwave conduits. If it is just to get digital playback devices into the hands of children...it will just be another way for them to lose their hearing quicker. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8849 Registered: 10-2003 |
There have been a lot of children educated without recording devices over the years. I can't see one justification for them. This would be a bigger clusterfuck than the laptops for all teachers plan. Someone forgot to include the costs of maintenance, refreshes, etc into that little debacle. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 403 Registered: 03-2006 |
It is not the role of government to be giving out electronic devices to school kids at taxpayer expense whether they are useful or not. If people think that is a valuable tool, then they can buy the damn things for their kids. To propose this at a time when we are told we are in a budget crisis is asinine. I am sure that most teachers are against this anyway because kids would be documenting their liberal bias in the classroom on a daily basis. | ||
Harpernottingham Member Username: Harpernottingham Post Number: 165 Registered: 04-2006 |
I tend to vote Democratic, but jeezus ... come on, already! | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8850 Registered: 10-2003 |
PG - Has this been 'proposed' or is this the News sensationalizing an idea that was floated? I agree with your post 403 with the exception of the last line but trhe op-ed is very vague about how or if this has been proposed. | ||
Mbr Member Username: Mbr Post Number: 129 Registered: 03-2005 |
Why should only the rich kids get to have iPods? | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 2968 Registered: 10-2004 |
Just watch the progression... First, it'll be free iPods for all. Then it'll be free rugged, expensive laptops. And further on, it'll be the latest new, expensive technology, of course free at taxpayers' expense. And of course, there will be an active commerce in stolen err surplus units. (Message edited by LivernoisYard on April 06, 2007) | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 1440 Registered: 02-2004 |
Then, the next thing you know, there could be decent education for all children, not just the spawn of wealthy white capitalists. Dammit. It must be stopped. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8851 Registered: 10-2003 |
How will MP3s or I-Pods improve education? I am all for helping the disadvantaged districts but I can not come up with one way this will help anyone or give the wealthier districts another advantage. | ||
Mbr Member Username: Mbr Post Number: 130 Registered: 03-2005 |
http://www.nj.com/news/glouces ter/local/index.ssf?/base/news -6/1175406158184140.xml&coll=8 | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8852 Registered: 10-2003 |
There is a big difference between every school child and University students. I am still waiting to see something more valid than a Detroit News opinion piece. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 2969 Registered: 10-2004 |
I can only imagine how effective the iTunes concept will be NOT. The kids will be on their cell phones, group text messaging, watching TV, and playing video games for five hours or more after school while they are actively studying via their free iPods. Oh, and playing their purloined MP3s on those very same iPods. And books? What are they used for anymore? | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 405 Registered: 03-2006 |
Spending more money has not brought about improvement in education. The fact is a properly motivated kid with any self-discipline at all can get a good education anywhere. Instilling these qualities in a child begins at home, whether it be a poor household or a "wealthy white capitalist" one. If a child is not interested in learning or doesn't see the benefits of getting a good education, all the electronic gadgets in the world will not make any difference. | ||
Mjb3 Member Username: Mjb3 Post Number: 151 Registered: 11-2004 |
Mbr, Why should only the rich kids get to have iPods? Because their rich-ass PARENTS buy it for them, not the taxpayers. Parents make the choices whether to buy the kids Ipods, $200 sneakers, laptops, or anything else. The more this budget debate drags on and these MEA/school board/wish list crap surfaces, the more convinced I am that Granholm will never stand up to the MEA, employee unions, etc. As wacko as the jesus-freak republicans are, I don't know how this budget thing gets fixed... | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 406 Registered: 03-2006 |
Mjb3 - What made you think that Granholm would EVER stand up to the unions, these are the idiots that got her elected!!???? | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 904 Registered: 02-2006 |
While the right is getting all in a froth, still no one has answered the question on how truthful this op-ed piece is. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 407 Registered: 03-2006 |
From the Detroit Free Press: "Also on the table, and playing a more prominent role Thursday, were expensive new programs, including $100 million for investments in Michigan's downtowns and a $38-million proposal that would provide iPods or MP3 players for all Michigan students to use as learning tools." http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20070406/NEW S06/704060315/1008 | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 408 Registered: 03-2006 |
From WDIV TV "Some sort of tax increase would be needed to pay for Democratic proposals aimed at strengthening Michigan's schools and cities, seen as crucial to improving the state's struggling economy. One Democratic plan would provide MP3 players or iPods to Michigan schools to be used as learning tools; another would invest $100 million in downtowns." http://www.clickondetroit.com/ news/11551271/detail.html | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 2974 Registered: 10-2004 |
quote: Could this be a natural corollary that the socialist left believes in throwing scarce money after bad? | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1754 Registered: 04-2005 |
Dillon, a Redford Township Democrat, said his plan would transfer the burden of business taxes from companies that have a presence in Michigan to companies that do business in Michigan but don't have facilities in the state. "We would eliminate the personal property tax and focus on a net worth type of tax that shifts the burden to companies that export jobs to other states," Super! once that tax comes online, expect to see an exodus of headquarters. Case in point. I had a booth at a trade show in Lansing. I invited a supplier to bring his wares and share the cost of the booth with me. It was a go until their accountant put the kibosh on his attending. It seems that Mich law makes any company that actively markets in this state, would place a book keeping burden on it. In other words, if he attends, then his company would have to file quarterly tax statements with the State of Michigan even though they are based in Ohio. Just by attending a trade show, the state looks at as having an office here. They passed on the invitation. Thanks again Michigan, continue burdening business with your social experiments. (Message edited by PSIP on April 06, 2007) | ||
Gmich99 Member Username: Gmich99 Post Number: 174 Registered: 11-2005 |
Terms limits replace professionals with town - in this case state- idiots. | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 777 Registered: 12-2005 |
quote:  | ||
Bpjeff Member Username: Bpjeff Post Number: 40 Registered: 01-2006 |
Too bad they are not limited to one term. | ||
Titancub Member Username: Titancub Post Number: 35 Registered: 08-2006 |
When will the embarrassment and lows of our state end?! It sure doesn't look like it's anytime soon based on our further downward trajectory further into the ground. Truly say a prayer for our state and neighbors if these are the 'leaders' we have to guide us. | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 383 Registered: 07-2005 |
What is that on her right cheek, a wart or a zit? If I get close enough to her and try to pop it will thick, cheesy juice fly all over my face? Maybe I will bring some crackers with me and find out... | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 2978 Registered: 10-2004 |
She's had that right along. I wouldn't let anything as minor as that cloud my [negative] opinion of her... | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 384 Registered: 07-2005 |
Man, what snags:  | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 2243 Registered: 07-2004 |
Sorta in the same vein http://www.tnellen.com/ted/tc/ computer.htm | ||
Warriorfan Member Username: Warriorfan Post Number: 676 Registered: 08-2005 |
quote: Oldredfordette, are you naive or just really stupid? If you think that iPods are necessary for a "decent education", then I'd say you are a moron. If you think that even 1% of Michigan kids would use those iPods for anything other than personal enjoyment, then you are living in a fantasy world. I think that $30 million could be better spent on more teachers, new textbooks, better school security, etc, wouldn't you say? | ||
Craig Member Username: Craig Post Number: 157 Registered: 02-2007 |
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 1440 Registered: 02-2004 Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 3:07 pm: ------------------------------ ------------------------------ -------------------- Then, the next thing you know, there could be decent education for all children, not just the spawn of wealthy white capitalists. Dammit. It must be stopped. Yes, by all means stop the education-minded from educating their children. God: help us. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 2980 Registered: 10-2004 |
America's dysfunctional school systems are like having three-legged stools with three very wobbly legs incapable of supporting any weight. The students themselves are the major obstacle with their anti-intellectual mindset, yet they know it all. But unfortunately their all is very minimal. An integral part of the students' contribution is the contribution made by their overly permissive and undereducated parents themselves. They both are colossal failures, in the main. Just look at the soaring percentage of today's high school graduates who cannot write at even a middle-school level. You can easily witness this on their blogs and their forum postings. Many of today's high school graduates and college students are even functionally illiterate. How else could our country have so many illiterates if they didn't fall through wide cracks in the educational systems nationwide--not just in the education backwaters as found in SE Michigan? Another busted leg is the combined effect of lousy teachers. Today's K-12 teacher candidates are firmly ensconced in the bottom quartile of today's college population, SAT- and ACT-wise. The mean SAT scores of today's K-8 teachers is significantly lower than that of the mean of today's high-school graduates--not good. The mean SAT score of the special ed teachers is over a hundred SAT points lower than that of their counterparts teaching K-8. And phy-ed teachers have mean SAT scores about fifty points lower than special ed teachers. Why is that bad? Having phy-ed teachers with such dismal SAT/ACT scores is bad because this is where a significant number of school administrators and principals come from--a group of teachers whose mean SAT scores is in the low 800s. Then you have the governmental cartel of the ed mills, the local, state, and federal governments meddling, and the teachers' unions. Their combined effect is to thwart any others from entering their sandboxes. This is where the gimmicks such as supplying iPods comes in. If the kids cannot (won't, really--for lack of trying on their part and little school discipline) learn as those students of four decades did with few problems and next to no special ed teachers in their schools before the 1970s, then maybe some newer technology will be the white knight to the rescue. Unfortunately, these very same cartel members as the end results of the dysfunctional educational systems themselves. And, of course, they do know it all. | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 4950 Registered: 11-2004 |
Methinks that this plan is hatched by people who really don't know what an iPod really is or what it can do. I'm just wondering if it's just their way to use current buzzwords like MP3 player, iPod and other electronic gimcracks to sound technically savvy. | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 516 Registered: 08-2006 |
I think your on to something smogboy........... Did they even take into consideration the hard drive space/computers/charging stations they are going to have to provide? | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1758 Registered: 04-2005 |
Michigan schools ban iPods and other electronic devices Legal Clips, July 2006 Citing disruption to the school setting and safety, schools in Comstock Park and Grand Rapids, Michigan have enacted policies to forbid iPods and other electronic devices in school. A principal at a Comstock Park school indicated that students listen to hard-core rap or rock music while in school, which present inappropriate messages to students. "It's a safety issue," says Grand Rapids Public Safety Director Larry Johnson. "If kids have headphones on, they might not hear an emergency bell…." The presence of iPods has also been an issue in other states, colleges, and even internationally. A school in Sydney, Australia banned iPods, believing they fostered social isolation. However, students across the country use the iPod to listen to "podcasts" on topics being studied as well as to interview people and record their favorite books for future playback. Other uses for iPods include listening to foreign songs in order to understand culture and language or using the photo feature to create flash cards. Despite this, at Pine Island Elementary school in Comstock Park, Principal Jan Fetrow indicates unbeneficial use of iPods is a growing problem. Grand Rapids Press By Ron Cammel & Dave Murray [Link to full story] Link Dead There was just a Mi legislator on MSNBC. He said the content on these iPods was going to be controlled. "Students would not be able to load music or videos themselves." LOL x 100 How long do you think it will take a couple of 12 year olds to crack into it? BTW, these are not just the little iPods, He showed the fancy Video iPod. (wish I remembered his name) | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 1443 Registered: 02-2004 |
quote: Then, the next thing you know, there could be decent education for all children, not just the spawn of wealthy white capitalists. Dammit. It must be stopped. Oldredfordette, are you naive or just really stupid? If you think that iPods are necessary for a "decent education", then I'd say you are a moron. If you think that even 1% of Michigan kids would use those iPods for anything other than personal enjoyment, then you are living in a fantasy world. I think that $30 million could be better spent on more teachers, new textbooks, better school security, etc, wouldn't you say? Neither. I know from history on this place that what the right wing wants is an end to public education and no matter what is proposed, it's shot down. One of the things that made this country great was excellent free education for *most* americans. What forum members like LY want is to not ensure that *most* americans get those rights. Read the post, it assumes the very worst about public school kids. Typical. I don't believe the iPod proposal was for real, I also think that using current computer-based devices aren't the worst idea in the world. There should be plenty of books and computers for every kid in the country. Instead, we are funding war without end, amen. | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1759 Registered: 04-2005 |
Beavis1981 touched on this, but it is much deeper. Where is the content for the iPods going to come from? Are the teachers suppose to become Media Producers and technicians? The way I see it, each and every school will have to build and maintain a 1 million dollar media production center. These centers will require at least 8 people to produce the volume of content required. Thats just for the technical end. I have to thank Rep Dillion (D-Redford) for bring national ridicule to our state. Watch Leno and Letterman on Monday. As if grape throwing wasn't bad enough. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 995 Registered: 06-2006 |
Most of my students already have iPods and MP3 players. Not a bit of anything useful is on them. I already provide Blackboard Learning System internet access for my students on which they can find: my lecture info, classwork, handouts, tests, homework, copies of short readings, etc. This, in itself, is time consuming but beneficial for my students. I won't, however, be putting my lectures on an iPod. Kids are plugged in for far too long and how is a teacher, parent or other professional supposed to know exactly is on said electronic device (which are banned in DPS). This ban doesn't mean kids don't have them...they do. I don't see anything worthwhile in kids having them, other than to listen to music on the bus ride home. They sure as heck won't listen to a teacher lecture, they didn't want to listen to it in class! Having students with iPods for lecture info is giving them the go-ahead to be disruptive in class with the excuse that they can listen to the teacher later! Bad, bad idea these are for an educational tool. (Message edited by detroitteacher on April 07, 2007) (Message edited by detroitteacher on April 07, 2007) | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1760 Registered: 04-2005 |
Thank you DetroitTeacher. Where iPods have been successful are grad courses in Dentistry. You have motivated students with difficult subject matter. When students are at that level, of course a tool like this would be useful. These students can afford their own iPods if needed. | ||
Jelk Member Username: Jelk Post Number: 4316 Registered: 10-2003 |
According to Wikipedia there are about 110,000 students in DPS. Detroit accounts for roughly 10% of the state's population so for the sake of this let's say there are about one million public school students in the state. And for the sake of this exercise let's say Ipods will be issues only to junior high and high school students or about half the state's public school students. An Ipod Shuffle costs $80 on Amazon but I would hope the State could purchase them wholesale so let's say the cost per Ipod is...$65? Using these numbers the Ipod buy for students will cost 32.5 million dollars. Which brings me to my question for educators. Would the state of Michigan be better served spending $32.5 million on Ipods or using this money instead for something like a fund to help poor or at risk students purchase basic PC's and/or internet access for their homes? (Message edited by jelk on April 07, 2007) | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 409 Registered: 03-2006 |
Very good points here. The content would have to be produced somehow, either by the schools themselves or by purchasing pre-recorded material of some kind. On-going maintenance and repairs are an issue, most of these devices are not that reliable. Then the issue that music players are currently banned in most schools, probably for good reason. It would seem to make this difficult as how would you know which version the kid was using? Also there have been crimes associated with iPod use as kids are robbed, usually while they have their headphones on because they can't hear what is going on around them. I am sure there would be some sort of lawsuit that would come out of that issue sooner or later. This is something only a politician would come up with, a stupid waste of public money on an idea that was clearly not thought through. More equipment and money are not the answer anyway, as stated by many here, a culture has taken hold amongst many young people and their parents that academic achievement is not important. Many of our parents were taught in schools that lacked most of what even the poorest of school districts have today, that didn't stop them from learning. There was strong discipline at home and at the school, you knew you had to behave and do the work out of fear. Now we have all of this free-form, touchy feel crap going on. My kids go to suburban schools that pretty much have all of the "stuff," computers, all kinds of A/V equipment, nice libraries, all of the extra curricular activities are available too. There are still many kids that don't do well though, most of it probably related to their home life or they plain don't care about school because they find it boring and the curriculum pointless. For most there are little (immediate) consequences for not learning from the school or the parents. We will all pay a price for this, as millions of kids enter adulthood that are either illiterate or have no marketable skills whatsoever. I see kids all the time that are basically unemployable, even for menial jobs. As we are losing low-skill jobs at an incredible rate, this only makes matters worse. (Message edited by perfectgentleman on April 07, 2007) | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 2431 Registered: 12-2004 |
quote: Relax. More than anything, I think this is a stunt for the House Dems to differentiate themselves from the GOP. They've produced almost a hundred different proposals in their 4 months on the job. The GOP-controlled Senate, meanwhile, hasn't done diddly squat. If/when the GOP ever decides to do anything productive, I'm sure you'll see Speaker Dillon reign things in. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 996 Registered: 06-2006 |
I would much rather see the state spend the money on early literacy programs, books for libraries, computers and internet access in each classroom (I only have one working plug, no internet access, no computers). The state could spend the money (15.00 each) on training each educator to use Blackboard, which would allow students access to many resources that the teacher can post to assist in daily classroom activities, homework, lecture info, links to helpful sites...the possibilities are endless. MANY kids don't learn by hearing it, they must see it, write it down, have it delivered in a different manner, do hands on, etc. iPods are one medium and no one can guarantee that the kids won't lose the things. The amount of stuff we pull out of lockers at the end of the year is unreal (coats, shoes, cd players, cell phones, purses). It would just be a waste of resources to provide a kid with something else to lose. My big question is when will I have time to provide information that would be uploaded to an iPod? Would someone record me and then put it on a computer for uploading? If so, then kids would still need computer and internet access to do this...who will provide that? Not all curriculum is the same, so not one person or company would be able to provide English 4 (10th grade English) material. It would rely solely on the teacher and there are many teachers who can't work a simple word processing program, let alone an iPod. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 410 Registered: 03-2006 |
Fnemecek - The Democrats always differentiate themselves by spending other peoples money for stupid things. The Republicans are proposing cuts, which is what is needed right now. Liberals seem to measure how much one cares about an issue by how many taxpayer dollars are confiscated for it, forgetting that it is only wasted. The answer to our problems will not come from more government programs. The prosperity the state once had did not come from government nor will it in the future. (Message edited by perfectgentleman on April 07, 2007) | ||
Detroitsuperfly Member Username: Detroitsuperfly Post Number: 6 Registered: 07-2005 |
One thing I find amusing about your republicans is your knee jerk ability to jump to absurd conclusions and over-react and froth at the mouth emotionally. A lot of lectures in school rooms are available on the internet, on school sites for download. Having that day's lesson available for repeat can only help students. but yeah, you republicans and your 800 million dollar bridge to nowhere and Bush losing 9 billion in cash/200,000 brand new AK47s in Iraq and billions wasted on your lame faith based BS are SOOO much better. YOu repubs need to stop whining and start using your brains! No wonder America flushed your ilk in Nov. | ||
Southwestmap Member Username: Southwestmap Post Number: 775 Registered: 01-2005 |
I think that the idea must be: when kids have that amazing, revolutionary little piece of technology in their hands, they can be inspired to more technological thinking - thinking that outpaces the computer-based technology that we are immersed in ( and think we are so hip with). When Michigan kids from the sticks are as conversant with new frontiers in technology and thinking about what can be done and learned as Japanese kids, or even kids in Europe, what might the future hold for them and for us and for Michigan? So, it isn't a dumb idea - anymore than the privately-funded idea of paying college tuition for every kid who graduates from Kalamazoo schools is. Michigan can't possibly afford to pay the college tuition of every kid who graduates from HS - but Michigan maybe could afford to give an ipod. I think its a great, dream-big idea - but sadly its the wrong time and there are a lot of jealous people (jealous to keep their kids more advantaged than the rest)out there who can't see the forest for the trees. | ||
Jfre66_77 Member Username: Jfre66_77 Post Number: 65 Registered: 01-2006 |
This makes great sense. We can't afford textbooks for these same schools, and in communities like Detroit, we are closing schools, but we should buy MP3 players for all the students? WTF We should probably get them all cell phones too. Heck while we're at it, why don't we get them all new cars at the taxpayers' expense? That would also help to solve the problems GM, Ford and Chrysler are having. My god why didn't someone think of this great plan sooner? | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 2436 Registered: 12-2004 |
quote: Slight exaggeration. Governor Granholm has proposed a series of spending cuts, along with tax increases, to balance the state budget. Dems in the Legislature have also proposed spending cuts, along with a different set of tax increases, to balance the budget. The Republicans in the Legislature have proposed other spending cuts confined almost entirely to the areas of education, health care and public safety. The problem is that their proposed spending cuts are enough to balance the state's budget and they're not proposing anything else. They're just sitting their, collecting a paycheck and not proposing anything to meet Michigan's challenges. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 439 Registered: 03-2006 |
Detroitsuperfly - I am a Conservative, I think excess government spending is bad regardless of the party responsible. The libs were swept in because of the war, nothing more. They have accomplished nothing except making nice with our enemies. Granholm has been talking about taxes more than cuts and has even proposed spending increases in some areas. If iPods are good, let the schools and teachers say so and the parents can provide them. It is not the role of government to buy them. Even many teachers agree this is a dumb idea. | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 637 Registered: 11-2005 |
An iPod for every kid? Are they !#$!ing idiots? If this is approved, yes. Just because it was proposed, however, doesn't mean that an entire party or an entire Legislature is. I do not see this happening. | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1429 Registered: 11-2003 |
I say since we are in a stalemate that is never going to be solved at this rate, causing the states bond rating to fall further costing us much more than we are in debt right now. Since no one seems to want new taxes, or any taxes, let's go with the Leon Drolet proposal of no taxes and no government. Let's close all schools, since all they are doing in failing our students and not motivating them to learn. Fire all the teachers since they are the worst college students anyways, let all the roads turn back into dirt roads, then we will not have to maintain them. Without all of this maybe people will be willing to come up with a real solution, but since no one wants to compromise we are all screwed and should just pack up and move to another state. No business in their right mind would want to locate ot this state when we cannot get our act together, push partisan politics aside and solve the problems. Everyone is going to have to give a little. State health insurance for teachers is going to happen, either that or more teachers will lose their jobs because of budget cuts. Prisons need to be shut down, and we need to find a way to stop putting so many people in prison, since it has no effect on the crime rate when compared with states with much lower crime and prison rates. The GOP will have to bend and so will the Dems. And iPods for every student is just a stupid idea when we cannot even afford to get our roads in good shape. | ||
Mcp001 Member Username: Mcp001 Post Number: 2541 Registered: 11-2003 |
In as much as this idea is as pathetic as the free laptops idea that "finally" got squelched several years ago, I haven't come up with a rationale by Dillon on 1.) why they are needed, and 2.) why their parents cannot pick one up themselves? When even the schools themselves are not too keen on the idea, you begin to wonder on the mental state of our elected "representatives". | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 653 Registered: 11-2005 |
The idea is stupid. But if a government, state or otherwise, were to waste millions on iPods, it'd still be a better use of money than tens of billions on a frivolous war in foreign lands. hehe  | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 499 Registered: 05-2005 |
let all the roads turn back into dirt roads, then we will not have to maintain them. ------------------------------ ------------------- well thats not true, the dirt roads up here are maintained by the county | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 655 Registered: 11-2005 |
Pothole-laden dirt roads are just as bad, if not worse, than pothole-laden paved roads. Trust me. Besides, you've obviously never been stuck behind a road grader. http://www.niegel.org/house/ph ase8/images/0326%20-%20Our%20a ssociations%20grader%20levelin g%20the%20road.jpg | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1430 Registered: 11-2003 |
Mcp001 makes a great point. Numerous school administrators have gone on record as saying saying the iPod idea is stupid, especially when a lot of school districts are worried (including charter schools) about making payroll in May. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 2995 Registered: 10-2004 |
The free laptop caper for all government-schooled 6th graders wasn't several years ago. That brainstorm came from the very same Jenny before as now. If that went through, guess how many of them wouldn't be stolen or busted by now. Those laptops were expected to be in active educational use for seven years of government schooling. What a laugh... | ||
Publicmsu Member Username: Publicmsu Post Number: 687 Registered: 11-2003 |
Fiddy cent's new algebra wrap? He could also rap simple economics, the choices are unlimited! | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 1476 Registered: 02-2004 |
I like how this thread was bumped over the Cox Memorial Gymnasium in a hurry. My pork your pork, as long as tax money... | ||
Corktownmark Member Username: Corktownmark Post Number: 297 Registered: 12-2004 |
LY do you ever give up on making shit up to support a position? the laptop for every child was proposed by US House Speaker Gingrich during the 1990s. | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1431 Registered: 11-2003 |
LY isn't making that up. The laptop for every 6th grader was proposed and run by Granholm in I think 2002, school districts had to pay part of the cost, which is why it never took off, and was abandoned without much fanfare in the next year of budget cuts. This is not to be confused with John Engler's laptop for every teacher (TTI program) that happened during the late 90s. Every teacher in the state of Michigan received a laptop to use in the classroom, although most ended up being used as a glorified gradebook because they were not powerful enough to run most programs. | ||
Corktownmark Member Username: Corktownmark Post Number: 298 Registered: 12-2004 |
laptops for 6th graders proposed and then withdrawn by Newt Gingrich in 1995 http://www.time.com/time/magaz ine/article/0,9171,987892,00.h tml | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 1000 Registered: 06-2006 |
Someone way up in the thread mentioned the TTI (Teacher Computer Program). I can say that not one of the computers that was supplied to me or any other staff member at my bldg is still working. Mine took a dive, locked up, and pooped out in less than a month. I took it in to be serviced and the tech laughed at me and knew it was a TTI computer. He said they bought refurbed junk and it wasn't worth fixing. Mine was a doorstop in my basement (I tried to turn it back in but they told me they didn't want it) for the longest time before my son and his friends took it apart to learn the innards of a laptop for a school project. The same thing will happen to these iPods or MP3 players, if the kids don't lose them first. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 5783 Registered: 02-2004 |
YAY!!! The democrats want all kids to be educated in any means necessary. Even to have I-pods in their pockets. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 467 Registered: 03-2006 |
Lawmakers pushing iPods flew on Apple's dime http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20070411/NEW S06/704110305 | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1432 Registered: 11-2003 |
I like the little part of the article where Dillon says "While I believe that moving our classrooms into the 21st Century is critical to the future of our children and this state, I fully understand that unless and until we solve the state's fiscal crisis we cannot pursue this initiative. As I have said all along, we are focused on the state's fiscal crisis first." Sounds like a little backpeddling after everyone called this iPod plan ridiculous. | ||
Jelk Member Username: Jelk Post Number: 4321 Registered: 10-2003 |
Interesting...total bullsht...but interesting. The Democrats have a 38 million dollar budget item for educational technology not for Ipods for everyone. From WOOD-TV: quote: http://www.woodtv.com/Global/s tory.asp?S=6345567 I guess Dawson Bell and the rest of the Freep scribes are operating under the Mitch Albom Rules of Journalistic Ethics. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 471 Registered: 03-2006 |
Matt Gillard, Democrat from Alpena introduced it and Speaker of the House defended the idea on WJR calling iPod's "the new blackboard." Whether they intended to buy them for ALL students is debatable but they are definitely talking about MP3 players. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3008 Registered: 10-2004 |
quote: So, guess who's blaming his general ignorance again on others? | ||
Jelk Member Username: Jelk Post Number: 4322 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: They are talking about exploring MP3 players as an educational tool. I am skeptical if MP3 players make sense but there is no question classroom technology needs to be upgraded and expanded It is not debatable whether or not the plan called for MP3 players for all students. No one was talking about that except Janet Cooke...I mean Dawson Bell. | ||
Udmphikapbob Member Username: Udmphikapbob Post Number: 312 Registered: 07-2004 |
You'd think that if there really WAS a Democratic plan to buy 1.65 million iPods, the NEWS would be the ones all over it, right? From their story: quote: What we have here is a hack journalist who saw a Democrat holding an iPod at a press conference, and he decided to go off and make up the rest of the details himself. The Freep should print a retraction on the front page. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 473 Registered: 03-2006 |
Udmphikapbob - What was the guy doing holding an iPod if they had nothing to do with the proposal? | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3027 Registered: 10-2004 |
Bob: Forgot to clear up the dates for Michigan's plans to equip laptops for school kids. There were two such statewide plans (in addition to a number of limited plans for some selected districts): one proposed by Engler in 2000 and the one by Granholm in 2003/2004. BTW, did you ever get around to reading the Gross book? | ||
Udmphikapbob Member Username: Udmphikapbob Post Number: 313 Registered: 07-2004 |
Perfectgentleman - What was the Freep doing writing this: quote: and the News doing writing this: quote: when none of it was true? A Democrat made an ill-advised statement, and the buzzards circled to pick the carcass. What was Dawson Bell doing writing a story about a so-called "proposal" without talking to anybody or actually reading a copy of this proposal? | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3028 Registered: 10-2004 |
quote: Maybe the poster might explain why the three Michigan Democrat legislators who visited Apple in Cupertino seeking rebates on laptops recently offered to pay from their own personal funds for the expenses that Apple paid for their junket to California? Perhaps, the adverse publicity has been a factor? Nah! That surmise is too logical to be an explanation. (Message edited by LivernoisYard on April 13, 2007) | ||
Udmphikapbob Member Username: Udmphikapbob Post Number: 314 Registered: 07-2004 |
Maybe businesses pay for lawmakers to take trips all the time? quote: I don't get your point about the publicity being a factor - it's the ONLY factor. They went to Apple on official business, and now that the right-wing MSM has whipped itself and the sheople into a fervor, they are trying to put out a fire that never should have been started. I'll repeat my previous statement: Rep. Gillard of Alpena made a regrettable error in judgment by singling out the iPod. Democrats simply think that improving technology in classrooms would be money well spent - especially on teacher training. But the right is never a group to let facts get in the way of a good story, eh? | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3033 Registered: 10-2004 |
quote: Accepting junkets paid by corporations is poor public policy and bordering on ethics violations. Those three Democrat legislators were heading into an area that has at least an appearance of catering to special interests. But Dems are only seemingly concerned about ethics improprieties when they're done by others. |
