  Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1969 Registered: 06-2004 |
maybe I'm being oversensitive, but calling the DIA an art gallery seems a little dismissive, or shows ignorance http://www.nytimes.com/aponlin e/us/AP-Van-Gogh-Detroit.html nice to know the Van Gogh is staying, though | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4033 Registered: 08-2004 |
What I don't understand is why the frivolous lawsuit? The painting was after all SOLD, and not Nazi plunder. All I can say is that painting will probably NEVER be loaned out again (at least not outside the country), just in case the laws of other countries contradict Michigan law. | ||
Viziondetroit Member Username: Viziondetroit Post Number: 1054 Registered: 11-2003 |
Maybe I am wrong, but if they SOLD the painting... how can they say it is still theirs? | ||
Queensfinest Member Username: Queensfinest Post Number: 71 Registered: 08-2006 |
A gallery is a space for the exhibition of art. Museums are in fact galleries by definition. One of the top museums in the world, England's Tate, bills itself as the "National Gallery of British Art." The Tate Modern is a good one to check out too. It's in London, England. According to the website they are "A major gallery of modern and contemporary art." I'd say the DIA is a pretty decent gallery by most standards. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1970 Registered: 06-2004 |
I think the argument in similar cases has been that the sale was made under duress - having to flee from the Nazis QF: yeah I know, it's just that no one would call the MMOA an art gallery in a headline like that, would they? I looked around and some papers (e.g. Boston) had changed the headline to read 'Detroit Institute of Arts' (Message edited by lilpup on April 03, 2007) | ||
Erikto Member Username: Erikto Post Number: 538 Registered: 11-2003 |
The Art Gallery of Ontario is a well respected museum, as is the Albright-Knox Gallery in Buffalo. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1971 Registered: 06-2004 |
but those are their formal names, Erikto | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 748 Registered: 11-2004 |
Must we always be look out for every perceived slight toward Detroit? For city that prides itself on toughness we sure have one hell of an inferiority complex | ||
Leland_palmer Member Username: Leland_palmer Post Number: 273 Registered: 08-2004 |
It calls it a "Detroit museum" in the first paragraph. | ||
Bob_cosgrove Member Username: Bob_cosgrove Post Number: 500 Registered: 03-2005 |
Mrs. Nathan, living in Paris, sold the two paintings in question to a collection of art dealers in 1938. She acted of her own free will, since this was some time before the September 1, 1939 German invasion of Poland or June 1940 Fall of France. The Toledo Museum of Art purchased their painting in 1939 and the DIA's Adjunct Curator of Modern Art Robert Tannahill purchased his in 1941, which he donated to the DIA in 1961. Obviously, Mrs. Nathan living in Paris in 1938 was not under direct Nazi duress. Even if family members still living in Germany were, she acted of her own free will. So, while the Nathan's heirs suit was dimissed on a procedure basis, the heirs have no legitiment claim. There's a very good documentary produced c.1997 "The Rape of Europa" about the Nazi's theft of European art from the countries they occupied. The films co-producer Robert M. Edsall spoke at the film's showing at the DIA's Detroit Film Theater at the Thursday evening showing only, that was about 2 weeks ago. Mr. Edsall has recently authored an excellent and comprehensive book titled "Rescuing DaVinci" about the Nazi theft of art. It's available in the DIA gift shop or at Detroit book sellers such as Borders for about $58. Bob Cosgrove | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4040 Registered: 08-2004 |
For all the horrors that the Nazi's did during WWII, they did take good care of Germany's as well as plundered art. Very little of Germany's "removable" artwork was lost in World War II. However, a lot was lost in transit, such as Russia's fabulous Amber Room from a St. Petersburg palace. It probably sits somewhere at the bottom of the Baltic Sea, after the ship carrying it was sunk by allied torpedos. The worst disaster of paintings in WWII (in fact since a fire in Madrid in 1734)... was caused by Russians after they occupied Berlin. The Flakturm fire of 1945 destroyed 417 master paintings. | ||
Bob_cosgrove Member Username: Bob_cosgrove Post Number: 501 Registered: 03-2005 |
Gistok, I'm just curious, what does Flakturm mean. Or should it be Flaksturm, which would mean anti-aircraft artillery storm or fire? Bob Cosgrove | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4045 Registered: 08-2004 |
Bob, I was going from memory... so I looked it up in "THE LOST MUSEUM, Glimpses of Vanished Originals", by Robert Adams (1980). He calls it "Flakturm Friedrichshain", and yes it is an armored structure housing anti-aircraft batteries. Whether or not the author has incorrect spelling or not, I don't know? | ||
Bob_cosgrove Member Username: Bob_cosgrove Post Number: 502 Registered: 03-2005 |
Thanks, Gistok, if I get a chance I'll look it up in my German dictionary. Bob Cosgrove | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 2424 Registered: 12-2004 |
quote: I wouldn't worry about it. The DIA has been called much worse than a "gallery". | ||
Mdoyle Member Username: Mdoyle Post Number: 49 Registered: 10-2006 |
Gistok, In all actuality the Germans during WWI and WWII billed all artwork that was not seen as "Nationalist" or academy trained as degenerate art and much of it was auctioned off or destroyed. Many Expressionist works were lost forever. The DIA made one of the largest purchases of "degenerate" art during WWI from an auction. (Message edited by mdoyle on April 03, 2007) | ||
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill Post Number: 197 Registered: 09-2006 |
Just wanted to mention that its a pleasure to read and learn info on a thread like this with the above participants compared to some of the bizarre topics and use of profanities and language lately on some of the others. Quite a contrast in the level of intelligence shown . | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4049 Registered: 08-2004 |
You are correct, Mdoyle... that's to our benefit today! I was watching a PBS show a month ago about how Afganistani art curators saved most of their paintings during the Taliban era from destruction. They painted over objectionable areas of the paintings with water based paints. The extra paint was later removed when the Taliban fell. Unfortunately they couldn't save sculpture or those giant 1,000 year old Budda's. | ||
Andylinn Member Username: Andylinn Post Number: 345 Registered: 04-2006 |
One of my favorite pieces in the entire Detroit Institute of Arts, a self portrait of Otto Dix, was purchased at a degenerate art auction in Germany. | ||
Mackcreative Member Username: Mackcreative Post Number: 53 Registered: 08-2006 |
WDET referred to the DIA as "Detroit's main art gallery" when discussing this story today too, I'm guessing that's what's written in a press release. | ||
Queensfinest Member Username: Queensfinest Post Number: 73 Registered: 08-2006 |
See my post above, 4th from the start. It's a gallery. Look it up in a dictionary. What's the big deal? The Times didn't call it a dump. They didn't criticize the gallery, oops, the museum. There seems to be a sort of contagious complex among a lot of Detroiters about how outsiders view the city and its residents, exemplified by topics on this forum. I'm willing to bet that virtually nobody who read that article anywhere else in the country got a negative impression of Detroit from it. Maybe try not to be so self conscious. | ||
Mackcreative Member Username: Mackcreative Post Number: 54 Registered: 08-2006 |
Queensfinest: see my post right above yours--my point was that LOCAL media were calling it a gallery as well; not disparaging to Detroit, just a strange choice of words. By the way an art museum is comprised of multiple galleries, the way a university is multiple colleges. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1973 Registered: 06-2004 |
I think if I were Graham Beal I'd find it disparaging that the national press feel the name Detroit Institute of Arts doesn't stand on its own. (Message edited by lilpup on April 03, 2007) | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 6229 Registered: 10-2003 |
Andy, I agree, that self portrait is outstanding. It was either at the Musee D'Orsay in Paris or the Tate Modern in London a few years ago, that I had the chance to walk through an exhibition of Nazi-era "degenerate art". There were some great works there. | ||
Andylinn Member Username: Andylinn Post Number: 346 Registered: 04-2006 |
i don't necessarily take offense, but I do believe there is a difference major between museums and galleries... dictionary.com agrees with me. one type sells works, the other displays and cultures. "Gallery" room, series of rooms, or building devoted to the exhibition and often the ****SALE OF WORKS OF ART.**** "Museum" A building, place, or institution devoted to the acquisition, conservation, study, exhibition, and educational interpretation of objects having scientific, historical, or artistic value. This follows exactly with the claims of institutions in our community: MOCAD, DIA: exhibit art works, NEVER offering them for sale... these institutions are museums... NOT galleries... HILBERRY, 555, C-POP, CAID: frequently / consistently offer their pieces for sale... THESE are galleries... |
