  Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1949 Registered: 06-2004 |
Police released a composite sketch, didn't they? Where'd that come from? Police, Coroner: Detroit Gay Man Died Naturally, Not From Beating | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 735 Registered: 11-2004 |
I'm not one for conspiracy theories. But for this close so quickly with conflicts about whether there were witnesses, it at least looks like the city is sweeping this under the rug. | ||
Rjk Member Username: Rjk Post Number: 656 Registered: 11-2003 |
"The only injury noted in the autopsy was a 2-inch-wide bruise on the back of Anthos' head, which likely came when he fell, Schmidt said. The injury was minor, he said. A CT scan "of his head disclosed no skull fracture, no injury to the brain, no bleeding to the brain," Schmidt said." http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20070329/NEW S01/703290305/1001/NEWS There's a little more info in the Freep article. The composite sketch came from Mr. Anthos. | ||
Ladyinabag Member Username: Ladyinabag Post Number: 167 Registered: 03-2007 |
The perp must be related to Ella Bully. This is way too wierd. He could have been scared to death. Did they look at that? (Message edited by ladyinabag on March 29, 2007) | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1954 Registered: 06-2004 |
yeah, the Freep article is a lot more in depth (Message edited by lilpup on March 29, 2007) | ||
Johnberk Member Username: Johnberk Post Number: 59 Registered: 11-2003 |
I just received the following email from the Triangle Foundation: Today, Triangle Foundation joined with the Wayne County Prosecutor's office and the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force in calling for more witnesses to come forward in the attack on openly-gay 72-year-old Detroiter Andrew Anthos. The Task Force has offered a $5,000 cash reward for information leading to the arrest and conviction of a suspect in the case. "Triangle Foundation stands in full support of the family of Andrew Anthos, whom we still believe was the victim of a vicious anti-gay assault which ultimately led to his death," said Triangle Director of Victims Services Melissa L. Pope, J.D. In addition to Andrew's statements about the attack to his family while on his deathbed, there was a witness present who provided police with a sketch of the man we believe attacked Andrew." Triangle Foundation will continue working with Andrew's family and the press to reaffirm what we believe to be the truth in this case. The coroner's report, which we have not seen at this time, is unfortunate because it may lead to justice not being served in this case. Wayne County Prosecutor Kym L. Worthy's office has issued a call for witnesses to call the Detroit Police Department. Triangle and the Task Force request that witnesses who may feel unsafe contacting the police call Triangle directly at 313-537-7000, ext. 112 or 1-877-787-4264. Further, we request that everyone receiving this message forward it to everyone they know in the city of Detroit and/or anyone thay know who may have been in the city on the night of Feb. 13 who may have been a witness to this attack. Together, we will pursue justice in this case. | ||
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks Post Number: 313 Registered: 11-2006 |
Every murder should be treated the same. Every murder is a hate crime. I don't get how because someone is gay and that is why they were murdered it is any more terrible than the wife who is cut up by her husband because he didn't like her anymore. Every murder is a hate crime. | ||
Eric_w Member Username: Eric_w Post Number: 84 Registered: 02-2007 |
This is a bizarre situation. The police & coroner say his death was due to paralysis and his family says he was beaten. Supposedly there is a witness or witnesses but where are they? I hope it all gets sorted out. I just wonder if it turns out he actually died due to his spinal condition what gay rights activist will say. I'm against any type of " Hate Crime" legislation. I figure we have enough laws on the books already. If a person or persons were hell bent on harming or killing someone a law won't stop them. For example after the Columbine HS shootings it was said the the two perps broke between 23-to 25 local ,state & federal laws combined. Anyone think that while they were loading their guns one might have said: "Well 25 laws is my limit I won't break 26". Don't think so. If indeed Mr. Anthos was murdered I hope they put away his killer for life-if not I hope people won't try to use his death for political purposes. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8762 Registered: 10-2003 |
Kath and Eric - You are missing one thing about a hate crime compared to others. Most violent crime is between people that know each other. Other violent crime if from escalation of arguments, etc. Hate crimes are when there is no connection between the two and one is targeted for being a certain color, sexual persuasion, ethnicity, religious group, etc. Getting killed by your spouse while horrible is different than someone that is killed because a random guy did not like that someone was wearing a yamaka (sp), was black in a white neighborhood, white in a black neighborhood, openly gay. The situation are all terrible but hate crime are different and deserve legislation to make penalties much harsher. In essence I see it as a means of using the law to protect those that are underrepresented in our society. It is easy to dismiss things like this if you are straight, white, christians but it is hard to grasp the abuse and issues that people that are different face on any given day. | ||
Southwestmap Member Username: Southwestmap Post Number: 761 Registered: 01-2005 |
When my mother had a catastrophic stroke, she could still speak. Neurologists in the hospital and later questioned her about what she thought had happened to her. She steadfastly held to her story: a huge cockroach had landed on her car windshield and she had run off the road, had been badly hurt and thus could not move. The only thing really true about her version was that she was in a car when she had the stroke (she was not driving). She told this earnestly for the three years that she lived. There is a sort of dementia that comes over older people in a hospital due to the episode that brought them there, lack of real sleep, 24/7 noise and interruptions, stress. etc. I have seen it often. Anthos perhaps had a preoccupation that caused him to hallucinate about what happened. Or, maybe he had an agenda. | ||
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks Post Number: 316 Registered: 11-2006 |
Jt1 - Do not tell me I am missing something. I firmly believe that ALL MURDERS ARE HATE CRIMES and should be prosecuted as such. What could be more hateful than taking the life from another human? (a rhetorical question) If you made a comment like your last sentence to me in person I would turn my back and walk away from you in wonder and awe. How dare you spew hatred about one group of people while coming off as a savior for what you call the underrepresented. And by the way, you don't know me. Again, please do not ever again tell me I'm missing something. ALL MURDER IS HATE!!!!! That is what I believe and you, Jt1, will not change my way of thinking now or ever in the future. Your posts can be aggressive, antagonistic, finger in the face and just plain mean, and I can't hang out with you. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8770 Registered: 10-2003 |
My intent was not to be mean spirited and my comment "It is easy to dismiss things like this if you are straight, white, christians but it is hard to grasp the abuse and issues that people that are different face on any given day." was not targeted towards you. Just a point of how the majority often dismissed the problems and issues that the minority deal. I did not mean to imply that the above mentioned group commits hate crimes any more so than any other group, just that they are the majority and some in the majority can be dismissive of what others deal with. Beyond that mis-communication on my part how is my post mean spirited or antagonistic. I agree that all murders are hate crimes but my belief is that murders that target a stranger because of something that is out of their control is a different scenario than an aquiantance murdering another person over an existing issue. It would be awful if a friend killed me. I would be even worse if a complete stranger killed me because he didn't like the color of my skin, thought I hit on him, etc. | ||
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks Post Number: 320 Registered: 11-2006 |
Jt, I was saying that you seem to harbor a bit of bigotry toward a certain straight, white, christian group. And yes, since yesterday I have found you to be very antagonistic on the Belle Isle thread especially. Every murder is a different scenario. You are splitting hairs. I shouldn't even reply to your posts. I'll stop now. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8775 Registered: 10-2003 |
Kath - My intent to illustrate the majority may have come off as bigoted. That was not my intent as I am white and straight and don't believe that I am bigoted. I stand by my claims on the BI thread and this thread. | ||
Ferndaleguy76 Member Username: Ferndaleguy76 Post Number: 56 Registered: 10-2003 |
I found your post enlightening, Jt1. Thanks. | ||
Eric_w Member Username: Eric_w Post Number: 85 Registered: 02-2007 |
JT1 I understand where you're coming from however I still maintain it won't do any good. We have a firearm felony law in Michigan yet guns are still used to commit crimes ( by the way I'm pro-gun ownership & favor allowing legal citizens the right to carry). James Byrd was killed in Texas,dragged to death because he was black.Texas has the death penalty yet it didn't deter his killers. Matthew Sheppard murdered in Wyoming a death penalty State yet he was still brutally beaten & left for dead. The 9-11 attacks-being federal raps could've been death penalty cases had any of the 9-11 hijackers been caught & tried. As I see it,any extra legislation won't work. In Michigan some White teens in Clarkston hopped a freight train for some fun,ended up in Flint and were terrorized by a black gang-a girl gang raped & shot another young man murdered-I don't think a hate crime law would've prevented it. What I've described had one thing in common-evil intent that no law would stop. I respectfully disagree with you and nothing would ever change my mind. As I said earlier if Mr. Anthos was murdered find his killer & put him or her away. 1st degree or Felony Murder in Michigan is life without parole-there could not be anymore tacked on anyway. | ||
Crew Member Username: Crew Post Number: 1171 Registered: 02-2004 |
Kath, Girl, you need to get laid more often. | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 6670 Registered: 09-2005 |
^ ^ ^ Crew = Clueless ^ ^ ^ Jt1 said: "Hate crimes are when there is no connection between the two and one is targeted for being a certain color, sexual persuasion, ethnicity, religious group, etc." Hardly. Using this standard, Jt1 should be able to show us a fairly large # of examples of whites who've been targeted simply for their color by other ethnic groups, and their attackers charged with hate crimes. Oh wait, that doesn't apply, does it? But we're told that soon whites will be a minority in the USA, if they aren't already. Then will hate crime laws apply? I doubt it - at least not in the PC world. Regarding Jt1's statement: "It is easy to dismiss things like this if you are straight, white, christians but it is hard to grasp the abuse and issues that people that are different face on any given day." Um, yeah. It is also easy to dismiss the many in this country (and far more in other countries) who don't fit that "straight, white, christian" demographic that Jt1 and others toss around so carelessly, who go about their business and succeed without any help/protection/encouragement from the likes of Jt1 and other, for lack of a better description, gay whiners/protectors on these threads. It is interesting, now that more evidence surfaces, to reread the hysteria generated on this and the previous thread on this subject. True? Perhaps. But no more worthy than if the victim was black, hispanic, straight, Christian, and/or white. There are ample laws on the books to allow a jury of peers to decide and punish - without trying to crawl into the perp's demented mind and figure out if, on top of everything else, there was a special hate in there also. Political correctness run amuck. | ||
Crew Member Username: Crew Post Number: 1172 Registered: 02-2004 |
I'm not so sure if I'm clueless or if I just can't imagine getting so upset over what someone posts on the internet. I mean really people, why all the hostility? Why take everything so seriously? If you're going to get so upset, I think it's time to turn off the computer and find something more productive to do with your lives. Heck Karl, in my opinion, you are one of the most clueless people on here so I basically just ignore you. Simple as that. | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 6672 Registered: 09-2005 |
Thank you, Crew. When you said: "I'm not so sure if I'm clueless..." and then said "Why take everything so seriously?" in reference to the murder of a man in a wheelchair, you successfully argued the point: You're clueless. Thank you for ignoring me. Until you come up to speed with even the simplest basics of life, any discussion with you would be a waste of time, so thanks for not wasting mine. | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 755 Registered: 12-2005 |
quote: Jt1, are you a lawyer, or do you just pretend to be one on Internet discussion boards? By your logic, the white bigot who vandalizes his black next-door neighbor's property will be immune from "hate crime" prosecution because they have a previous connection. Institutional Vandalism and Bias-Motivated Crime (a.k.a. "hate crime") laws are the result of a world-view that says group identity is more important than our identity as citizens of a neighborhood, town, state and nation. It isn't enough that a crime is always an offense against society at large - if it can be proven that the victim is a member of a protected group, it is presumed that the entire group has been harmed and that their need for justice is greater than that of other non-group members who live, work or worship in the same neighborhood. "E pluribus unum" - "Out of many, one" or "Out of one, many"? | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8788 Registered: 10-2003 |
Karl states quote: But missed where I stated quote: Yep, I said white in a black neighborhood. It is best to read before responding. If you look at the FBI hate crime stats they track by color and there are hate crimes recorded that are against people for being white. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8789 Registered: 10-2003 |
Karl - accoring to the fbi in 2005, 19.9% of the racially motivated crime were due to an anti-white bias. So as I stated above there is anti-white hate crime. | ||
Andysrc Member Username: Andysrc Post Number: 159 Registered: 07-2005 |
I don't understand hate crime legislation at all. Let's say that a non-hate crime, a man killing his wife for life insurance money, for example, deserves a penalty with a severity level of of 8. Now we say that a homophobe kills a gay man because of his sexuality. We're saying that deserves a penalty with a severity level of 9. Why make the penalty more severe? Is it because someone thinks it will help prevent this kind of crime? If so, why not make the penalty for EVERY murder this harsh? Is the married woman's life worth less because she was killed for money instead of someone hating her sexuality? Is it not worth enacting a more severe punishment for this kind of murder so that others can be prevented? On the other hand, if making punishment more severe for hate crimes isn't intended to prevent them, then what's the point? It just seems like taking a human life is the worst thing you can do. Whether it is because someone is gay, black, jewish or just in your way during a liquor store robbery, killing them should get you the maximum punishment. Don't lower the punishment for hate crimes. Make the punishment tougher for non-hate crimes (if there is such a thing). | ||
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks Post Number: 339 Registered: 11-2006 |
Yes, yes, yes Andy!!!! How can anyone not understand what you are saying! It's all so simple - and based on an understanding of equality for all people! | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 6673 Registered: 09-2005 |
Jt1, of course there are all sorts of crimes. But the issue is should crimes against certain folks, by certain others, have higher penalties than identical crimes against/by those who don't fit the demographics? The answer is no. Kath & Andy get it right, and eventually the courts will agree. Just like Prop 2 in Michigan - everyone should be treated equally - and no one is more equal than another, including when they commit or are victim of a crime. | ||
Savannahsmiles Member Username: Savannahsmiles Post Number: 23 Registered: 05-2005 |
As a white Christian who believes Homosexuality is against God's laws, I also believe in loving the sinner and hating the sin. Therefore, if this man did die at the hands of someone else, whoever killed him should pay to the fullest extent of the law, same as "Mr. Slicendice" who cut up his wife. As with Kath and Andy, I think any murder is a hate crime. I sincerely hope that Mr. Anthos was mistaken and that it can be proved, because it hurts my heart to think that anyone could be so cold-hearted. And anyway, where is the person in the wheelchair who could corroborate his story? | ||
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks Post Number: 342 Registered: 11-2006 |
OMG Savannah, you had better be ready for an attack! Hope not, but think so. *If you are ready to attack Savannah for her pronouncement of her religious belief in the first sentence, take a moment and think better of it. Read instead the part where she/he says "it hurts my heart to think that anyone could be so cold-hearted". | ||
Savannahsmiles Member Username: Savannahsmiles Post Number: 24 Registered: 05-2005 |
Please, don't anyone miss a good point here... As a Christian, my beliefs are my own. I have to let it be known what I believe, because if I keep my mouth shut, it's the same as condoning it. HOWEVER... Just because I don't approve of something does not give me the right to attack (or physically harm) someone who does things that are against my religion. I would appreciate the same courtesy. If you are gay and you come to my door at suppertime, you will be invited to join us. We won't discuss our sex lives and will expect the same from you. My friends are my friends regardless of what they do. I am sure I do/have done things my friends don't/didn't like, as well. Thank you, Everyone, for not attacking me. :-) | ||
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks Post Number: 344 Registered: 11-2006 |
Phew, you are well spoken and happily it seems that everyone understood what you said - Bravo! | ||
Matt_the_deuce Member Username: Matt_the_deuce Post Number: 724 Registered: 10-2003 |
Murder has been assigned levels of severity for as long as there has been "civilized" society. It's not so cut and dried. You are living in a world that does not exist if you think it is as simple as "all murder is a hate crime" In theory you are correct, but other factors are at play, especially the level of "innocence" we assign the victim. More attention is given to especially heinous crimes, as they tug at our emotions - all of them being murder. Who here can honestly say that you have the exact same reaction to these two examples of murder: A young 8 year old girl is kidnapped while walking home from school and 1 week later found killed after signs of torture and sexual abuse. A a 45 year old man is killed by his wife after a stormy marriage of 30 years. She has no criminal history and raised 4 children who all attended college. The killers in each of these cases will be punished at differing levels for the exact same crime - murder. In fact, the killer in the first example might not make it 1 week in prison, as the other killers think his crime is especially heinous. If you don't believe that victims have differing levels of innocence, and that it does not affect the killer's punishment, you probably also feel that every one in this country is on equal footing. I believe that human nature will shade certain cases of murder with darker grays than others, and I also believe that we are a long way from living in a country were we are all have the same fair chance in life. It's just not so simple. | ||
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks Post Number: 347 Registered: 11-2006 |
Matt says: I believe that human nature will shade certain cases of murder with darker grays than others,... K says, yes. Human nature. Not the legal system. So, if my husband kills me it isn't as bad as if he kills the 8 year old next door, because maybe I "deserved it" or "did something to provoke him?" I think both should exact the same punishment. Life in prison, no parole. If the inmates want to kill him, so be it. Yes, there are different levels of "oh, that's horrible" reactions, but that's just what they are, reactions by humans. That shouldn't determine how long someone gets 'put away'. Different levels of innocence? Murder is murder in my book. | ||
Gibran Member Username: Gibran Post Number: 142 Registered: 02-2007 |
Murder is by nature a hatred of someone else for political, religious or cultural reasons. Murder for profiteering or to gain is still hatred. You hate what someone else has and you feel entitled to take it at any cost. Violence in humans goes against the grain of our innate good. It develops as we grow and are exposed to a variety of experiences and prejudices. We should morn the loss of any person. Murder can not be and should not be justified. I agree with kathy Murder is Murder. A professor at Wayne State in the Psych. Department once said that crime is a choice. That the insanity plea is over used. I feel it is vaguely applied in many cases and should not be an excuse to kill. Now there are obviously extremes. If we are to advance as a society hate, murder oppression should dealt with effectively and not tolerated at any level. In the history of non-violence ( a great read) it is very clear of how we as a society can chose a different path.. People who commit violent crimes (murder) should face a life with limited options and work to repay the life that they take. Hate Crimes that are malicious in nature are one step away for violence when left unchecked. restitution should be at a level where a)one should recognize that it will not be tolerated again and b) have a requirement that a person develops a clear understanding that they are accountable and that it transcends cultural differences. In short they will be held accountable for their actions and not blame the victim. | ||
Johnberk Member Username: Johnberk Post Number: 60 Registered: 11-2003 |
Another press release from the Triangle Foundation: ==================== Tonight, Triangle Foundation staff and volunteers will be canvassing the neighborhood in an effort to find witnesses in the murder of Andrew Anthos. Canvassers will talk with Andrew's neighbors and with people at the bus stop near his home, asking if anyone saw anything the evening Andrew was attacked. Our canvassers will be able to offer witnesses a powerful incentive. The National Gay and Lesbian Task Force has increased their reward from $5,000 to $25,000 for information leading to an arrest and conviction in Andrew's murder. "The Detroit Police never really investigated this case," said Melissa Pope, JD, Director of Victims Services. "Since they haven't, we will. We are committed to obtaining justice for Andrew and his family." Pope said that the recently-released report by the Wayne County Coroner's office wasn't sufficient evidence to close the case. "The coroner's report wasn't conclusive," said Pope. "The police claim that there were no witnesses, but they were able to come up with a suspect sketch based on a witnesses' report. This just doesn't add up." "Given Mr. Anthos' deathbed statement and that of an eyewitness, the man who caused Mr. Anthos' death is still at large. Since neither Mayor Kilpatrick nor Police Chief Bully-Cummings have given priority to this case, and the investigation has been dropped, we are increasing our reward to $25,000 to encourage other witnesses to come forward and bring the perpetrator to justice," said Matt Foreman, Executive Director of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force. "The Detroit Police Department's mishandling of this case is an insult to the memory of Mr. Anthos, to his family, and to our national community. There are three ways you can help us pursue justice for Andrew Anthos and his family: 1. If you live in the area of Gratiot and Jefferson, east of Downtown Detroit or you ride the busses in that area, download this poster of the current suspect in this case. Print a few copies and put them up around town. 2. If you know people who live in that area of the city, forward this message to them. |
