  Fareastsider Member Username: Fareastsider Post Number: 255 Registered: 08-2006 |
I knew it was a matter of time before this comparison arose. A better and more accurate headline would have said "Iraq is a dangerous as any major US city" http://www.clickondetroit.com/ politics/11322568/detail.html | ||
Billybbrew Member Username: Billybbrew Post Number: 275 Registered: 07-2005 |
Well, if indeed Iraq is as "dangerous" as Detroit, maybe our country's leaders should be doing something about our city and others like it instead...I've always considered our own criminals to be terrorists as well. Don't people live in fear of crime? | ||
Salvadordelmundo Member Username: Salvadordelmundo Post Number: 87 Registered: 04-2006 |
These comparisons always make me shake my head, for several reasons. -The "body counts" we see out of Iraq usually refer to political/sectarian violence; not the whole spectrum of murder (if a husband kills his wife in Detroit in a domestic dispute, that goes into the murder rate). -Not all of Iraq is in a state of sectarian violence, since some parts of Iraq are totally dominated by a single sect, making the notion somewhat irrelevant. Basra, a large city, is Shiite. The Kurdish northern areas are functionally a separate nation from the rest of Iraq. The real question is, what is the murder rate in those areas of Iraq where troops are actually deployed? -The apt comparison would be Detroit and Baghdad - urban areas - not Detroit and Baghdad and every random single-sect village and swath of countryside along the way. Quite aside from one's stance on the war, it's important that the comparisons made and the analogies made are accurate. Furthermore, why compare Iraq's murder rate to Detroit? I think most of us realize that Detroit has a very high rate of homicide, something approaching a social crisis in many ways. Why not compare Iraq's murder rate as a whole to the US rate as a whole? Probably because that doesn't work very well for people trying to demagogue the issue. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5274 Registered: 10-2003 |
Wahlberg is one of those so-called "family values" Republicans that have been cheerleading this war and everything else Bush does. It is no surprise he'd say something like this. And, quite frankly, the guy is a total prick, so I'm hardly surprised by this comment. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 2893 Registered: 10-2004 |
quote: Do you know if the murders in Iraq are fairly uniform across that country? Can you state with certainty that the murders in certain parts Iraq do not compare with those in dangerous US cities, of which Detroit is way high up on the list? | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 1361 Registered: 02-2004 |
This is more right-wing posturing. They think the war is a mere piffle, and tell you the soldiers are volunteers, as if their lives mean nothing. Our right wing friends in the Non-Detroit section are always making this crime point. Disgusting. | ||
Swiburn Member Username: Swiburn Post Number: 78 Registered: 07-2006 |
Politicians are always fighting the last war, i.e. we're making up for Daddy not going to Baghdad in l992. This war is based on Haliburton greed and W's pride. Imagine what we could do with the $2 billion a week we're spending in Iraq just to avenge Dad's timidity in l992. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1890 Registered: 06-2004 |
tell him to send billions of dollars a day here | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 5641 Registered: 02-2004 |
KING KWAME called this PATHETIC!!!! A way to bash Detroit. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8611 Registered: 10-2003 |
From the jackasses bio: During Rep. Walberg’s 16 years in the state legislature, he never voted for a tax increase and successfully fought to reduce income taxes, property taxes, capital gains taxes and death taxes. He also compiled a 100% pro-life voting record and earned a lifetime A+ rating from the NRA. That about sums him up. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 330 Registered: 03-2006 |
Jt1 - Walberg’s record sounds great to me! The reason this comparison is made is that liberals always complain about the "body count" of war while they conveniently ignore their role in creating the "body count" that has been occurring for decades in our inner cities. Detroit has been a mecca of liberalism since the 1960's, yet somehow those on the left refuse to take responsibility for the failure of their own policies. If every death in Iraq is Bush's fault, wouldn't logic dictate that every death in Detroit is Kwame's fault? I don't think it is all of his fault myself but the libs seem to blame others for all bad things yet much of what they complain about they had a hand in creating. Most democrats in congress voted for the war, and not because Bush "fooled them" with faulty intelligence, the record is clear on that. It was the Clinton administration that established "regime change" as the official policy of the US government in regard to Iraq. If things were going better in Iraq, they would all be bragging about how they voted for it as Hillary did when Saddam was captured. I guess success has a thousands fathers but only Bush is to blame when things don't go according to plan. | ||
Gildas Member Username: Gildas Post Number: 945 Registered: 12-2004 |
I have to agree, I like Walberg's record. Let's see lower taxes, gun owner rights, etc. All good things...but lets face it, he's no Granholm. | ||
Islandman Member Username: Islandman Post Number: 388 Registered: 08-2004 |
No, Perfectgentleman, your logic is incorrect. Kwame would be at fault for Detroiters' deaths only if Detroit would have invaded another country or city, say Livonia.  | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 334 Registered: 03-2006 |
Former and current residents of Detroit have been invading suburban cities for years. Crime rates have risen and deaths have resulted. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8617 Registered: 10-2003 |
Fucking hilarious. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5055 Registered: 11-2003 |
Has Tim Walberg ever been to Detroit? Invite him to your house, to a Tigers game, to The Redford for a concert, to the DIA, the DSO, or to the fucking opera here. Maybe a nice afternoon to Belle Isle might clear his head. He's got a huge case of Potomic Feaver. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 335 Registered: 03-2006 |
So the standard is if you haven't been someplace, you shouldn't comment on it? In that case most of you shouldn't be talking about Iraq either... | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 3252 Registered: 10-2003 |
Wow, it wasn't that long ago that chickenhawks were assuring us the Baghdad was the new Prague, -remember those mass-emails touting that "girls could now attend school!" (even though girls always could attend school-wait, now they can't-too dangerous!) and that our troops would be greeted with kisses and flowers. The history of this fiasco is a history of ever-changing comparisons by its' proponents... ("It's like World War Two...no wait, it's like The Civil War, no wait, it's like...." Anybody remember the parable of the Blind Men and the Elephant? Anyway, it's an odd comparison, considering that conservocrites have never advocated spending thousands, let alone hundreds of billions of dollars on rebuilding Detroit, and that violence here is not being subsidized by our government, and Detroit was not invented by Winston Churchill, and umm, Detroit was successfully stolen by the French from its' original guardians, while repeated attempts by foreign armies to steal Baghdad have met with little success, at least in the last 100 years... But Wahlberg is betting on the ignorance of his electorate, something that has obviously gotten him to where he is now. | ||
Schulzte1 Member Username: Schulzte1 Post Number: 49 Registered: 01-2007 |
If the Dems would have run any campaign against him, they could have won. No good Democrats have run in that district recently because it is unbelievably red. Everyone assumed (including Democrats) assumed first that Joe Schwartz would win the primary and no Democrat would stand a chance against him later. But those assumptions were wrong, as Walberg exploited the rural values voters in the primary by the playbook and beat Schwartz. Then the Democrats were stuck with essentially a poor candidate who they again assumed would be another sacrificial lamb who would lose 70-30 against the incumbant as usual (Reiner). Moderate Republicans who supported the incumbant Schwartz hated the radical and dirty campaigner Walberg, and a large percentage voted for Reiner out of spite. In the end, Walberg squeaked out a 51-48 win against a poor candidate who essentially had no organized campaign. Some smart democrats should have predicted this outcome in the primary and recruited a decent candidate who could mount something that resembled a campaign in this district. Dems really missed an opportunity to embarrass this idiot Walberg in the last election. Walberg will not return to congress in '08. Somebody will take him out in the primary and put that district back in Republican hands more solidly in the long run. It might be Joe Schwartz, who knows. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 336 Registered: 03-2006 |
I would be more than happy to send money for a "troop surge" in Detroit. They could clean out the criminals, bulldoze the crack houses and rebuild the infrastructure. Unfortunately any money going to Detroit is too often squandered by an incompetent, corrupt and inefficient bureaucracy. I get no joy from the failure of Detroit, it is harmful to the entire region. I would like nothing more than for Kilpatrick to succeed. | ||
Corktownmark Member Username: Corktownmark Post Number: 284 Registered: 12-2004 |
^^^ "Unfortunately any money going to Detroit is too often squandered by an incompetent, corrupt and inefficient bureaucracy" as apposed to money going to Iraq? | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 485 Registered: 11-2005 |
What do you expect from a redneck? This guy is a frickin' whack-job and the voters of that district deserve him for ousting an intelligent man (he's a doctor), a great leader and a great man in Joe Schwarz, a Republican that didn't mess with partisanship and actually tried to make a difference. They opted to elect a man who is the exact opposite of Schwarz in every single way - and none of them good ways. | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 805 Registered: 10-2003 |
If you actually read his quote, its quite accurate. Once again there appears to be a bit of sensitivity on this board. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 2895 Registered: 10-2004 |
It's understandable that Democrats would like another Dem, err RINO, like Schwarz. But the people there spoke with their votes, and the Dems over here cry about that. | ||
J_to_the_jeremy Member Username: J_to_the_jeremy Post Number: 2 Registered: 03-2007 |
I seem to remember a similar comparison in the beginning of the war- but except of Detroit, it was California. | ||
Lvnthed Member Username: Lvnthed Post Number: 50 Registered: 03-2007 |
Why did I know this was going to bring out you "LETS BLAME DETROIT FOR EVERYTHING" PEOPLE. It's so typical. Detroit's problem's are the symptom's of a greater problem, So stop pointing fingers and TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR PART IN MESS. Until you admit that your a major part of the problem we can never find any solutions. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5278 Registered: 10-2003 |
Livernoisyard, The voters did speak for Walberg, but, not by as much as he should have (51/46). Sharon Reinger, a no-name, organic-farming liberal Democrat, gave him a legitimate race in a district that should not have never been competitive for her. Believe me, that district is nowhere near as Republican as it used to be. Thank you for that, Dubya, and a GOP spinning out of control before our eyes. lol Walberg's going to have to fight for his political life every subsequent election. (Message edited by lmichigan on March 22, 2007) | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 3742 Registered: 10-2003 |
Yeah Detroit's just like Baghdad and Iraq since the victory in Iraq. Eastern Market has only been car bomb twice so far this year, mortar attacks are down to three a night, and less then twenty bodies with signs of torture are being found each morning. The main difference is that our tax dollars are building schools, police and fire stations over there why we are closing them down here. But then what would a snowbillie know about that? | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 338 Registered: 03-2006 |
Lvnthed - Please tell me how I am a "major" part in the mess that is Detroit? | ||
Schulzte1 Member Username: Schulzte1 Post Number: 50 Registered: 01-2007 |
Lyard, Yeah, those voters in Jackson and Hillsdale really spoke. They said Tim Walberg is better than a hippie organic farmer uber-liberal who was offered as a biennial sacrifical lamb and outspent 20-1 in the campaign; but only 5% better. 51% in that district is an embarrassment, but as my republican friend says, "A win is a win". Except when it is really a loss of a respectable politician in exchange for a zealot | ||
Lvnthed Member Username: Lvnthed Post Number: 51 Registered: 03-2007 |
PG, Violent crime is very specific in detroit. It's mostly driven by the drug trade. If we eliminate drug and gun related violence we would have a much safer city. So when I hear all of this responsibility bull-shit, There is always this glaring omission from the discussion. Where is the responsibility of customer's who don't live in the city. The exporter. People who come into the city buy the drugs and leave the gun's behind that fuel the violence. People like you focus all of your attention on the effect of an action rather than the cause. You stand in judgement of a whole city and say to them stop blaming us and take responsibility for your actions. I only wan't from you, what you demand of them! | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5280 Registered: 10-2003 |
Schulzte, where are you from? You sound very familiar with that race that took place bordering my own district (i.e. Mike Rogers). He's another candidate that should have won by more than he did. Yeah, that Sharon Renier won so much of the vote actually is actually a much bigger deal than Walberg actually winning. BTW, I guess Schwartz supporting abortion makes him a fake Republican, right? | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 340 Registered: 03-2006 |
Lvnthed - I don't buy drugs, so I guess you are thinking of other people. I come to Detroit and spend money on legitimate businesses, not sure how that is harmful. Your connection is tenuous anyway, to blame suburban drug customers for the majority of the violence in Detroit is pretty asinine. First of all, over 40% of murders involve people who have some sort of relationship with one another, not sure how that factors in to the drug wars. Quote: "People who come into the city buy the drugs and leave the gun's behind that fuel the violence." So people come in, buy drugs from a dealer, then give the dude a gun and tell him, "be sure to kill someone with this gun after I leave." Amazing. Yeah, it would be a much safer city if drug and gun violence were eliminated - good observation. | ||
Lvnthed Member Username: Lvnthed Post Number: 52 Registered: 03-2007 |
Again. You focus on the effect, not the cause!! But if you want to take that, "I don't do drugs avoidance bull-shit stance", your hopeless. Just keep drinking the cool-aid. LET'S GET REAL PEOPLE My issue is how to stop violence. Do I need to explain to you like you're a 6yo. | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 193 Registered: 11-2006 |
Another ignorant mindless comment from another ignorant mindless politician. An old negative cliche/stereotype trotted out to make a point backfiring on the speaker. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 341 Registered: 03-2006 |
Lvnthed - The most effective way to stop crime is to LOCK UP CRIMINALS for as long as possible. I know it is not something that most liberals support, but has proven the most effective way of reducing crime. We are releasing people that we KNOW are going to re-offend! Detroit Crime Stats for 2005 Murders 354 Rapes 589 Robberies 6,820 Assaults 13,477 Burglaries 15,304 Thefts 17,383 Auto thefts 21,285 Arson 936 Maybe you should tell the victims of all of these crimes that they are the cause and they should get real. | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 195 Registered: 11-2006 |
Relative to what? What are the rates for similar (population, etc) american cities? Last I read we were out of the top five and getting better. If so, shouldn't the example used be the number one city (which I am certain is not Detroit). | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 342 Registered: 03-2006 |
Ccbatson - The crime rate in Detroit is roughly 3 times the national average, certain crimes, like murder, are going down somewhat: Here are the numbers going back to 1999. http://www.city-data.com/city/ Detroit-Michigan.html The point I am making is that we most hold those committing the crimes responsible for their actions, not engaging in some fantasy about how suburban drug addicts are causing the majority of this crime. I am all for punishing those who come to the city to buy drugs, but to cite that as the main source of crime in the city is not tenable. | ||
Lvnthed Member Username: Lvnthed Post Number: 53 Registered: 03-2007 |
AGAIN PG, VIOLENT CRIME AND IT'S CORRELATION WITH DRUGS!! TAKE OFF THE BLINDERS AND WE CAN TALK | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 343 Registered: 03-2006 |
Lvnthed - Do you think rape is a violent crime? What does it have to do with drugs? Here are some national stats as of 1997, the data does not support your assertion...  | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 344 Registered: 03-2006 |
More data:  | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 345 Registered: 03-2006 |
More:  | ||
Lvnthed Member Username: Lvnthed Post Number: 54 Registered: 03-2007 |
PG, What you are doing tonight is a typical ploy to divert attention from the ROOT cause of violence in Detroit. It's beyond your comprehension, that this could be true. You truly don't know anything about what's going on in the city. TYPICAL | ||
Craig Member Username: Craig Post Number: 77 Registered: 02-2007 |
Snowbillie? Republicrite? Chickenhawk? How is answering a perceived insult with more insults right? Is there a thread on this forum where dissent is registered with decorum? | ||
Lvnthed Member Username: Lvnthed Post Number: 55 Registered: 03-2007 |
Well PG, When I need a research assistant for my thesis I'll call you first!!!! The fact of the matter is, national stats don't mean much in Detroit. and secondly, stats can be twisted to anyone's advantage. Good try. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 346 Registered: 03-2006 |
Lvnthed - Back up what you say with hard evidence and maybe your argument would be more credible. Simply repeating it over and over doesn't make it true. Of course there is a correlation between crime and drugs, but to say that it is the MAIN cause of all violent crime is not the case. Many drug users do steal to support their habit, but most are not committing violent felonies. There are drug dealers killing each other, but it is not the MAIN cause of homicides, not even close. There are those that are high or intoxicated when they commit crimes but again, that still points back to the responsibility of the perpetrator, not the fault of drug users at large. You claim to know what is going on in the city, why don't you tell us how many drug-related murders there have been in Detroit this year. I just searched the Detroit News web site and none came up. (Message edited by perfectgentleman on March 22, 2007) | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 347 Registered: 03-2006 |
Lvnthed - So now the FBI and the Dept. of Justice are twisting stats to make Detroit look bad going back 10 years? It is amazing that Detroit is so unique, I never heard that average crime statistics apply except in Detroit. | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 196 Registered: 11-2006 |
3 X national average doesn't mean much...of all cities? Or urban cities with populations over 750,000? I don't have the actual stats, but recall that we have not been the worst for some time (years) now. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 348 Registered: 03-2006 |
Ccbatson - As an example, Baltimore, New Orleans, and Wash DC have a higher murder rate index than we did as of 2003. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/ A0004902.html I am not saying that Detroit is the worst. I am saying that those responsible for crime are the criminals. Reasonable people can disagree as to the root causes that have led certain people to commit crimes, but ultimately they must be held to account for their actions. To quote Kwame "We have come to a point in our community where this is no outside conspiracy doing this to us." | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 197 Registered: 11-2006 |
Yes, we were making 2 different points...yours is well taken. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8633 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: You just lost all credibility. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5285 Registered: 10-2003 |
Ditto. BTW, The chief said that something like 70% of Detroit's homicides are routinely drug-related. | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 498 Registered: 11-2005 |
Yeah, that Sharon Renier won so much of the vote actually is actually a much bigger deal than Walberg actually winning. I agree with you, Lmich. Isn't she an organic farmer or something? She's run so many times, it's a joke. That she came that close says something about Walberg AND how that district has changed. Schwarz wasn't as conservative as the voters in that district like, but c'mon. This guy is not only a huge jackass, he's ridiculously conservative in that Clarence Thomas kind of way: So uber-conservative that it's GOTTA be an act. BTW, I guess Schwartz supporting abortion makes him a fake Republican, right? I hope that's sarcasm. This goes without saying, of course, that you can be Republican for reasons other than your love of Jesus and opposition to women's rights. | ||
Lvnthed Member Username: Lvnthed Post Number: 56 Registered: 03-2007 |
PG, It's time for me to change my tact a little bit. I have never tried to cover for the people who deserved to be called out on their reckless behavior. As a matter of fact, I agree with most of what you say on this post. It's the one-sided broad stroked approach that I don't particularly care for. And a concerted effort to not tell the complete truth. I am a pretty conservative person myself. The problem is, I don't tow anybody's line. The left is too left for me. and the right is to right. But I was raised a certain way that stressed a good work-ethic and value system. So, when I See people not handling their business, I call them out on it. The Difference is, I am in the community every saturday doing it. Right in the same neighborhood that I grew up in. So when you show me stats, I take it with a grain of salt. Nothing beats reality. The same reality that I use to live many years ago. The sad part of this reality is that even though I have long since gotten out of the game, NOTHING HAS CHANGED. It's just more of the same with a new cast of characters in their car's, cab's, work vehicles, on bike's and busses or just walking. The reality that makes me sick any time I see that cycle of irresponsible behavior perpetuated in my city. I'm sick and tired, of being sick and tired of people who live in this world of willful obliviousness. If it doesn't effect me, then it doesn't exist crap. You know, not in my neighborhood, school,home, everyone know's that's bull. The suburbs is no different than the city if you look. It's just a little cleaner.I guess my radar is a little more in tune than most of you. But it happens every day all over suburban michigan, and I am talking about BH,FH, GP,RH, SH . Go to a 7-11, CVS, Liquor store at 12 noon and you see people buying beer and shots. Cars parked at pay phones for extended time, people jumping cars. You see, but you don't see, because you think that, because your city might not look like Detroit, it doesn't happen. Sorry It does. Now, how about a little history lesson based on my experiences. Mabe this can shed some light on how I draw my conclusions. DRUGS: As a market for consumption, Detroit has a cap number between 10%-20% of the regional supply, considering almost 100% of the supply is distributed through Detroit. Just think If that consumer base was to disappear. What kind of effect it would have on the Detroit market. I'll tell you this; In a capitalistic society, if your market shrinks, either you downsize, become the victim of a hostel takeover, or close shop. And the drug trade is no different. There are things in the city/state that we can't control. The war on drugs hasn't stoped the flow in, but mabe we can stop the flow out. I truly believe the fight is in the demand market. You can lock up all the dealers you want, but if you have a solid customer base, flush with cash, there will always be someone waiting to take over. CRIME: If you destroy the demand there will be very few people willing to move into that void considering it is a very unstable Government Check driven market where you have mabe 4-6 good days a month. There would be a natural contraction in the city, forcing the drug market to occupy a smaller footprint. This in turn would allow the police to gain more control of this newly downsizes market. Also with less money in the pipeline These newly formed mimi-cartels will be very reluctant to cause problems, for fear of losing any of the now slimmer, profit margins. As a result, the amount of drug related homicides/assaults will decrease. More police would be free to deal with other crime in the city. And so-on and so-on. Crime rates go down, people and businesses come back. It's economic warfare 101 Attacking demand won't stop drugs, but it sure would make a huge difference if carried out effectively. The question is; will the city have the balls to step on a few toes for the common good of the region. In the early 90's the market itself almost forced this very scenario, so I am sure that If we purposely attack demand you can cripple the market. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 352 Registered: 03-2006 |
Lvnthed - I never said that crime doesn't happen in the suburbs, nor did I deny that suburban people buy drugs in the city. I merely rejected the assumption that this is the primary cause for violent crime in Detroit. There are plenty of customers within the city limits for these dealers as well. I am for enforcing the law and holding those that are committing the crimes responsible for their actions, regardless of where they live. As I said, if suburban people are buying dope, bust them. In turn we should be locking up the dealers as well. One feeds the other. I am fully aware what happens in the suburbs, my kids are exposed to drug users at school and other harmful behavior. What we don't have as much of is rampant violent crime and shootings on a daily basis. The reason I was challenging your post is that I was sensing that you were somehow justifying the behavior of a certain group by the actions of another. The reasons that people face a grim situation in Detroit or anywhere else for that matter is mostly due to their own bad decisions and the lack of a moral upbringing in the home. I hate drugs, I would love to reduce demand. But the question becomes why do people do drugs? Why do people who sell and use drugs feel that is their only way out even when they see shattered lives all around them due to involvement with drugs? Undoubtedly the breakdown of the family unit contributes here, but why is the family unit in peril? Ask yourself "why?" five times and you start to get to the root cause of a problem. This is where strong, traditional moral values come into play. But anyone who stresses these values in todays world is labeled a right-wing Christian conservative zealot by the left. | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 502 Registered: 11-2005 |
This is where strong, traditional moral values come into play. But anyone who stresses these values in todays world is labeled a right-wing Christian conservative zealot by the left. Religion alone is not enough, it would seem. Churches are always crammed in Detroit on Sundays. Many of them are just crazy for J.C., and many of them are Democrats. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5287 Registered: 10-2003 |
Rhyme, Yes, I was being very sarcastic. And, yeah, as said a few times, Sharon Renier is an organic farmer, and single-mom, too. She had so much going against her. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 353 Registered: 03-2006 |
Rhymeswithrawk - No, it is not enough, but somehow I don't think the Baptists in Detroit are doing drive-by's as they leave the church every Sunday. People can say what they may about organized religion, certainly there have been issues with the church as an institution, but it was in church where the issues of morality and treating others as you would want to be treated were put forth. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5290 Registered: 10-2003 |
That old, tired argument. Morals have existed, are existing, and will always exist outside of religion. Religion doesn't have a monopoly on knowing what is right and wrong. Trust me those "Godless heathens" over in a lot Europe have it quite well when it comes to crime. (Message edited by lmichigan on March 23, 2007) | ||
Lvnthed Member Username: Lvnthed Post Number: 58 Registered: 03-2007 |
PG, I refuse to defend The Indefensible, Period. But when you talk about sensitive issues like this, it's sorta like when your married and your wife complains all the time about her family, but rips your head off when you say something. It's just a built-in defense mechanism. But I am far from condoning the crap I see going on. But I try. Every week when I go to the barbershop, which is like the neighborhood town hall. I corner the kids and drill them about school and doing the right thing. I make it a point to talk to all the young men about what's going on in their lives. I take a real interest in them. I don't have any sons, just a daughter. I use the phrase "You have to teach people how to treat you" often. But last week I made it a focal point of discussion, because If the whole city and not just the NCA, MT and CBD is to succeed, they would have to demand that people respect their neighborhood. I feel that if this doesn't happen soon, the Mayor will have the will and capital to make them. And I wouldn't be against it. Ticket , Fine, what ever it takes to make them care about improving their homes. Keep the faith! | ||
Lvnthed Member Username: Lvnthed Post Number: 59 Registered: 03-2007 |
It really doesn't matter where your moral compass is rooted, as long, as you have one. Although The lines have blurred some these days. I'm sticking with the old ways when morality had a broader more inclusive meaning. |
