  Downtownguy Member Username: Downtownguy Post Number: 4 Registered: 07-2004 |
Kate Beebe, Director of the new Eastern Market Corporation, has said that they plan to renovate Shed No. 2 soon by restoring it to the way it looked when built in the 1890s. Because of the renovation, the colorful murals inspired by Detroit City Planner Alex Pollock that have been on this shed since the 1970s will be removed. I consider myself a preservationist, but I think these murals have become iconic with the Market and removing them will be a great loss. I talked to Ms. Beebe recently and asked if she's gotten much negative feedback to this idea. She said they really haven't solicited the public's opinion. I’m curious what other Detroit Yessers think of losing the murals? | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3673 Registered: 10-2003 |
'bout fricking time. We can paint cartoons on any goddamn bland piece of architecture. We only have one or two sheds that date from the 1890's. Please do not ever describe yourself as a preservationist again. | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1979 Registered: 11-2004 |
I am curious as to how the market will appear with the murals gone. I do like them, but I liked a lot of the 70's murals that are disappearing lately. I can't say the city is lost without them, but there is a sense we are losing a little of what our mayor likes to call "flavor." | ||
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine Post Number: 1549 Registered: 05-2005 |
class that schit up! | ||
Matt Member Username: Matt Post Number: 1173 Registered: 10-2003 |
Paint that shit over! | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1980 Registered: 11-2004 |
Tear that schitt down!!! Oh wait ... | ||
Tetsua Member Username: Tetsua Post Number: 1137 Registered: 01-2004 |
Make that shit over | ||
Jjw Member Username: Jjw Post Number: 275 Registered: 10-2005 |
This one is a dilemma. I love the murals but would also like to see the area restored as much as possible. Ideally I would love to see the murals kept but possibly in a different location but I don't know if that would be possible. To be frank, there is all kinds of work that can continue to improve the Eastern Market area without having to decide on the murals and the sheds. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 11431 Registered: 10-2003 |
I would just like to say that I am SOOOOO glad to see Skulker back. Perhaps we could paint some big ass whales on the side of the sheds? | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 2166 Registered: 06-2004 |
I am looking across the street at the whale guy's studio at the moment. Get that schitt out of Laguna is all I have to say... | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 11432 Registered: 10-2003 |
Dabirch, Go paint one of them stupid trtls on it! lol | ||
Mbr Member Username: Mbr Post Number: 105 Registered: 03-2005 |
I think the murals look ridiculous. I have never heard anyone say anything positive about them. They scare small children. | ||
B24liberator Member Username: B24liberator Post Number: 70 Registered: 01-2007 |
Never cared for those cartoons myself, either. Murals? I guess they rate that in a 7th grade sort of way... | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 1242 Registered: 01-2005 |
Glorified graffiti. Get rid of it. | ||
Queensfinest Member Username: Queensfinest Post Number: 65 Registered: 08-2006 |
Photos please. Before and after murals if possible. Thanks. | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1573 Registered: 04-2005 |
 Marygrove College | ||
Bearinabox Member Username: Bearinabox Post Number: 135 Registered: 04-2006 |
Part of what I find interesting about older buildings is that they are often renovated piecemeal, with styles from different eras in evidence. The Eastern Market murals are an example of this, and they aren't hurting the building. In a case in which the original details are obscured or obliterated, I'd be all for restoration, but all the 19th-century architectural details are still visible on the shed. The only difference is the paint job, and I think this has more to do with that particular 1970s aesthetic going out of style than with "preservation" (how can removing something be called preservation?). In the end, though, I guess I just like the murals. (Message edited by BearInABox on March 21, 2007) | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1574 Registered: 04-2005 |
I guess the other side of the structure is mural free. http://detroit1701.org/Graphic s/EasternMarket1.JPG | ||
Detroiternthemist Member Username: Detroiternthemist Post Number: 80 Registered: 01-2006 |
Boring............Leave it alone. | ||
Revolutionary Member Username: Revolutionary Post Number: 122 Registered: 09-2004 |
Isn't there legislation protecting public art? I thought I remember it coming up with the whales. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5267 Registered: 10-2003 |
Damn, Skulker. A little harsh, don't you think? I personally indifferent to this. I won't miss the murals if they are gone, but I can see how some argue that they add character to the market, and, are themselves, a piece of history. | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 1160 Registered: 12-2005 |
WTF-are we on a "groundhog day" loop? this week alone there have been threads on buildings that already have 5 archived threads. Lowell: can you make a scrolling tool bar with a picture of every stagnant/abandoned/boarded up building in the CBD that will link to all of the threads on that building when you click on that picture? coming up next: a thread entitled "what's the deal with that castle building on Cass and Grand River, does anyone know anything about it?" | ||
Bearinabox Member Username: Bearinabox Post Number: 136 Registered: 04-2006 |
Aren't most/all of the archived threads closed to new posts? | ||
6nois Member Username: 6nois Post Number: 123 Registered: 11-2006 |
I am glad to see the murals go. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 11434 Registered: 10-2003 |
Looking at that picture above, I can visualize a Hooters ad being easily implemented.  | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 1161 Registered: 12-2005 |
yes, archived posts are closed, but people could see and read much about "that castle building on Cass and Grand River" and we wouldn't have to dredge up all the usual steamship statistics. | ||
Skipp Member Username: Skipp Post Number: 122 Registered: 06-2005 |
Speaking of eastern market, I walked trough the building that is for sale behind R.Hurt,jr and next to embassy foods. I'm not sure if they did experiments or testing, but there were dead cats in jars of liquid and multiple dead baby cats in jars. There was also a wire line that was holding about 75 flea collars and collars that looked like they were someones personal cat collars. That place was very creepy! | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 945 Registered: 03-2006 |
When I first learned that there were plans to remove the murals I was disappointed, but I've since changed my mind. The back of the shed looks way better. Out with the 70s in with the old. | ||
Dbc Member Username: Dbc Post Number: 34 Registered: 09-2006 |
Chalk up another vote for getting rid of the murals. They always struck me as incredibly tacky. It's akin to brick vs. vinyl siding. No contest. | ||
Apbest Member Username: Apbest Post Number: 500 Registered: 03-2006 |
I used to think keeping the murals was a good idea, until I looked at what the shed's looked like originally and what they can potentially be again and then I realized they suck relatively speaking PS...should this have been my 500th post? lol, sorta standard or trivial (Message edited by apbest on March 22, 2007) | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 800 Registered: 10-2003 |
Its the same quandary that I had when they said they were going to tear down the monkey bars and restore Washington Blvd. As a general rule, if it was created in the 70's, it was in bad taste.... or as my daughter would say "Its Ugly!" Get rid of the murals. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1456 Registered: 10-2003 |
I've always thought that the murals should be removed. They're an embarrassment. As Skulker said, it's about time. It's not like we're losing great artwork or anything like that. I'd rather see the 1890s architecture than look at a squawking-cartoon chicken head. | ||
Jfried Member Username: Jfried Post Number: 946 Registered: 11-2003 |
skipp - that story about all those kitty cats in jars in not cool. is that for real? | ||
Buzzman0077 Member Username: Buzzman0077 Post Number: 33 Registered: 11-2006 |
yeah, the cat thing kind of has me gagging, I can't believe they could just leave it there like that. | ||
Bumble Member Username: Bumble Post Number: 45 Registered: 11-2004 |
Oh, please. If you think that's creepy, you should check out the slaughterhouses where your meat comes from. | ||
Buzzman0077 Member Username: Buzzman0077 Post Number: 34 Registered: 11-2006 |
We have a place in KC where I can pick a live chicken and they'll butcher it in front of me. I cna't do it. I love meat but don't want to know what has to be done to bring the big juicy sirloin in front of me. | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3674 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Nope. There are murals on a fair number of buildings in Eastern Market. The shed murals are less than 25% of the total. Any nitwit who has spent more than an hour in EM knows that. | ||
Detourdetroit Member Username: Detourdetroit Post Number: 270 Registered: 10-2003 |
The chicken, etc. is an important part of EM's history...from an era when the market was in serious jeopardy of being lost. They gave the market character and identity (and "flavor" mmmm...tastes like chicken!) at a time when old bricks and mortar had even less value than they do now. I'm all for restoring the sheds and am supportive of EMC goals and vision. However, I've come around to the idea that the murals should be preserved, somehow. They are part of the public domain and have been adopted by numerous media. There are laws about this. The artist has to make a claim, which is defensible and has precedent. | ||
Revolutionary Member Username: Revolutionary Post Number: 124 Registered: 09-2004 |
^^ Thanks for shedding some light on the legal tip. I'm not a fan of Alexander Calder but I don't think his work should be sold for scrap just because I don't like it. Personally, I don't like the murals much but I have to stop and think of all the times art was destroyed in the name of historical preservation. Is there a magical year before which history is worth preserving and after which isn't? | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1459 Registered: 10-2003 |
Who gets to decide if it's art? | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 8703 Registered: 12-2003 |
By definition, anyone spending MORE than an hour in Eastern Market cannot be described as a 'nitwit'. Heh. I'm torn on this issue, and don't want to be found to be a conservative by default. I like them the way they are...some of our seventies culture should be preserved. It doesn't all suck...although I cannot think of ONE other example to prove my point beyond this with which I'm SO familiar. We should re-do Emily Gail's 'Say Nice Things About Detroit' mural somewhere, too. H-m-m-m-n. I guess I DO like the idea of returning these buildings to their original raw brick, as long as there is some sort of EM museum with photos of the changes over the years, and many pics of the murals. Second floor of Butcher's, perhaps?! Don can sell the reprints for recurring revenue. Can we eat our cake and have it, too?! | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 913 Registered: 11-2003 |
The murals are art, no matter how many people think they're ugly (and I'm definitely one of them). They could be removed tomorrow morning and I'd be happy. But depending on the terms of the agreement when they were painted, it could be a sticky situation if the designer of them--which may or may not be the one(s) who actually painted them--steps forward and lodges a complaint. Bearinabox wrote, "how can removing something be called preservation?" Because you're preserving the ORIGINAL look of the building, which is usually what historic preservation is about. That's my take on it, anyway. | ||
Irvine_laird Member Username: Irvine_laird Post Number: 10 Registered: 02-2007 |
Take 'em down. It seems this would be good on at least three points: 1) Aesthetics, 2) Restoration/preservation, and 3) Marketability. | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3681 Registered: 10-2003 |
Hey! Weenies! Pay attention! The chicken on the shed is NOT the only mural [ummmm any one recall the vegetable cow?] and not the only opportunity for more murals. The vintage sheds are the only vintage sheds we have and have 80 years of history before the damn chicken went up. Yeah he's cute and fun and part of the history of the area, but that is kinda like saying the decking installed in the BC that destroyed the Italian Garden ought to be retained, because it played an important part in modernizing the BC to keep it afloat in the 50s, 60s and 70s and screw the restoration of the Italian Garden... | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 2171 Registered: 06-2004 |
It's not like that at all. Nobody is saying "I like the decking". People are saying "I like the mural". Nobody looks back in fondness to the changes made at the BC. For many, many people, the murals are an integral part of the eastern market experience. And have been for their entire lifetime. Not saying I am for them - just if you are going to be such a prick, at least get your analogies correct. | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3684 Registered: 10-2003 |
Oh, well then, count me as a person who feels there is more than enough character with the many other murals that the creepy chicken thing can safely go. Been going to EM for more than 35 years and I guess I don't have much of an attachment to a mural that I figured out a pretty young age was a half assed attempt to "do something". | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8612 Registered: 10-2003 |
Can you translate that to dumbfuckistani for me? I agree, the murals should be gone. | ||
Swiburn Member Username: Swiburn Post Number: 87 Registered: 07-2006 |
The chicken mural looks terrible, it isn't orginal to the building, and it needs to come down. Another example of l970s "free spirit, liberate us from the past" type architecture. But legally, you have to see if there are problems in taking it off the wall. At least they left Versailles alone in the l970s. | ||
Swiburn Member Username: Swiburn Post Number: 88 Registered: 07-2006 |
The chicken mural looks terrible, it isn't original to the building, and it needs to come down. Another example of l970s "free spirit, liberate us from the past" type architecture. But legally, you have to see if there are problems in taking it off the wall. At least they left Versailles alone in the l970s. | ||
Mpow Member Username: Mpow Post Number: 244 Registered: 11-2003 |
the cartoons are great! keep em. say nice things about detroit. | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3733 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Nice! | ||
Skipp Member Username: Skipp Post Number: 123 Registered: 06-2005 |
Jfried- Yep true story, if you need another pet i can hook you up. Very low maintenance. You would probably just have to polish the jar every couple of months. | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 568 Registered: 11-2005 |
class that schit up! I could not have said it better myself. I HATE those murals. Everytime I look at them up close, I look at all that gorgeous masonry buried under the electric yellow and cringe. The weird cow thing is fine, but that chicken... Looks like someone tagged it. | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 569 Registered: 11-2005 |
Oops, that should be "every time I look at them," not everytime. Sorry, Livernoisyard! | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 3752 Registered: 10-2003 |
I agree. Get rid of them and restore the originals. What a horrible idea. Whoever said "Architecture ain't paint" made a good point. This will bring to an end the Alex Pollack era [Trolley, Landsdowne, Washington Blvd. red monkey bars too?]. I have no problems with big blank walls being painted but this was really a bad idea. | ||
Toybreaker Member Username: Toybreaker Post Number: 47 Registered: 01-2005 |
I will miss the murals, they have been an icon in Eastern Market for years. | ||
Detourdetroit Member Username: Detourdetroit Post Number: 280 Registered: 10-2003 |
as i said earlier, i am 100% behind the concept of restoring the sheds and support the efforts of the EMC. i like cake and want to eat it too! i am saddened by the forum's disdain for the murals and the notion that we should erase all vestige of the Alex Pollock era. we've learned a lot since that point (i hope) and to not see a way to incorporate some of the era's ideas into future redevelopment is ashame. it represents a loss of continuum when we should be smarter... it's not as if you can't see the facade of shed 2 as it was originally...just check out the north side. it's not as if you couldn't restore one or two of the other facades. would it hurt to save one to help tell the story of the market for future generations? could the images be saved and integrated in the restoration somehow? could they be projected on the facade at night? i'm not an artist and don't consider myself to be especially creative, but i fear that we're missing the boat here a bit. do the murals fundamentally compromise the nature of the sheds? imho the answer is no. they're real. they're uniquely detroit and are therefore worthwhile. life magazine and andy warhol thought so at least. | ||
1805 Member Username: 1805 Post Number: 43 Registered: 03-2007 |
For nostalgic purposes, I'll miss them. However, there are other murals in the market. It's going to be weird to see when it happens. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 3967 Registered: 08-2004 |
What makes it so hard for me is that I agree with both Lowell and Detourdetroit. Must we erase all vestages of Alex Pollock? And yet... they are sort of graffiti like... and yet... if Andy Warhol found them to his liking.. and yet... ARRRGGGGHHHHH!!! | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1695 Registered: 04-2005 |
I still fail to understand why the trolley was removed. Aside from its disrepair, it certainly was a convenient way to get from GCP to the RenCen. With the B-C opening, now it would really come in handy. Was it strictly a cost factor? | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 3970 Registered: 08-2004 |
Psip, I think that in the boulevard section of Washington Blvd., it was located where the northbound roadway was restored to, so the track had to come out in that section. Plus they demo'ed the trolley barn. I too would like to see them in use again somewhere downtown, or along the east riverfront. As long as the trolleys are in storage (and not sold off), I think that they can still be used at some point when more development has taken place in downtown/riverfront. | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 3756 Registered: 10-2003 |
and yet... if Andy Warhol found them to his liking. Another ^argument for bye bye. | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1697 Registered: 04-2005 |
Gristok,, Sold! http://www.heritagetrolley.org /existDetroit1.htm /sorry about the threadjack | ||
Bearinabox Member Username: Bearinabox Post Number: 147 Registered: 04-2006 |
Psip, where did it say on that page that they were sold? It looked like as of those articles (both dated October 2003) the city was still trying to decide what to do with them. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 3972 Registered: 08-2004 |
I agree, it doesn't give a definitive answer on whether they WERE sold. Maybe Peter Stroh convinced the city government to hold off on selling them. I'm sure we would have heard about their sale, had it happened. Calling Skulker!! | ||
Kathleen Member Username: Kathleen Post Number: 2200 Registered: 10-2003 |
A fresh look for Eastern Market: Remodeling, other customer-friendly changes coming "Eastern Market will close one of its sheds for remodeling in June as the most extensive transformation of the market since 1891 gets underway. That facility, shed 2, on Russell between Winder and Adelaide, is expected to reopen on Labor Day, looking the way it did when it first opened in 1894. Other construction that will eventually transform the place that has attracted generations of Metro Detroiters shopping for fresh food and flowers will come later. By the time it's all done, the market will be open three days a week instead of just Saturdays and will provide a heated shed for year-round comfort. ..." http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20070409/M ETRO01/704090364 | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 1209 Registered: 12-2005 |
The last time we hashed out the chicken mural thing I was leading the charge for the "get rid of all of that Alex Pollack bullshit" movement. I'm glad to see that others are on board now. All of that federal money wasted to put up those smoked glass bubble-awnings, which obscured the building facades and existing signage at Grand River/Oakman, Grand River/Greenfield (anywhere on the east side?), the concrete kiosks (that no one ever posted anything on), the silly-assed serpentine concrete benches, the concrete trash containers (that on one ever emptied) and the diagonal small-divided sidewalk slabs that could not have the snow removed with the existing equipment and had to be hand-shoveled. The little trees that were planted at Grand River/Lahser (another Pollock folly) grew in a couple of years to obscure all of the commercial signage. The steel cages around them were stolen for scrap and the trees cut down, then the sidewalks, which were not yet 20 years old, were torn out and replaced with new, traditional large-rectangle slabs. As I said then, that money would have been better spent beefing up police patrols in those retail districts in an effort to retain the viability of the area than wasted on that disco shit. Restore the sheds to their original appearance. If anyone wants to look back at the murals nostalgically they can look at pictures, the way I look back at (the demolished) old city hall, the Hollywood theatre and everything else that has come and gone. | ||
J32885 Member Username: J32885 Post Number: 42 Registered: 11-2005 |
Read the recent the recent news article, about restoring Eastern Market. I must say the restorations are needed to keep these same buildings going for another 100 years+. I'm glad to took pics of all the murals when I did, before they are removed for good. | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 3322 Registered: 10-2003 |
What Packman said. |
