Discuss Detroit » Archives - Beginning January 2007 » Marriott sign on Renaissance « Previous Next »
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Quinn
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Username: Quinn

Post Number: 1193
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 10:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I might be behind the times, and a cursory search for "Marriott" on the homepage didn't reveal any existing threads.

I just noticed the lit, bright red Marriott sign on the 100 Tower of the RenCen on the way home tonight. I'm not sure how I feel about it. How about you?

The GM logo on the actual hotel...the Mariott Logo on the actual GM offices...confusious? Plus I think it detracts from GM.

I'm leaning towards a big "I hate it."
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Spiritofdetroit
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Post Number: 361
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Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 10:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

it went up a couple weeks ago...

there was an article in the freep about it
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Viziondetroit
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Username: Viziondetroit

Post Number: 1032
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Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 10:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

got pics?
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Gsgeorge
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Post Number: 111
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Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 10:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i hate lighted signs and billboards on buildings, especially the tallest ones in a city. I too was unhappy to see this go up when I spotted it a few nights ago. I'm kind of a "the architecture speaks for itself" guy, but in cash-strapped detroit, we'll do anything to 'spruce up' its landmarks...
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 413
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Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 10:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

got pics?

Hard to miss. Just drive by it.
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Malcovemagnesia
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Username: Malcovemagnesia

Post Number: 18
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Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 11:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hard for me to see it when I (and probably plenty of other members) don't live anywhere close to Detroit.
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Gistok
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Post Number: 3821
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Posted on Friday, March 16, 2007 - 12:05 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The 100 Tower is the location of the former Manufacturer's Bank HQ (before they merged with Comerica). And they used to have the words MANUFACTURER'S BANK right up along the top of the tower.

Well now GM has the RenCen as their HQ, and they have the 100 Tower as the location of the executive offices & Board Room (floors 38/39 with the same 2 story lobby & offices as the former Manufacturer's folks).

And since one of the members of the Board of Directors of GM is the chairman of Marriott... should we be surprised by this development?
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Quinn
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Username: Quinn

Post Number: 1194
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Posted on Friday, March 16, 2007 - 1:19 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gistok, that thought didn't escape me either...

How odd...a Marriott logo where Comerica used to be, and above where GM now is (and GM on the Mariott hotel). It's so wierd.

Could it be a sign of the end of the world? ;)
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Detroitbill
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Post Number: 181
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Posted on Friday, March 16, 2007 - 8:37 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I must admit sometimes I like large lighted signs on top of commercial buildings, to me makes the city look more vibrant. I hope the hotels (Book-Cadillac, Ponchartrain, etc) put up signs on their tops, I remember the BC had one years ago but kinda forget what it looked like lighted.
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Keystone
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Username: Keystone

Post Number: 242
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Posted on Friday, March 16, 2007 - 8:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Driving through Toronto last year, I recall noting the number of signs on top of buildings. As a visitor, it gave me a sense of the business vitality to the area. The residents though may see it as tacky. I think overall these signs, well done, are a plus for the City.
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Toog05
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Post Number: 118
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Posted on Friday, March 16, 2007 - 9:11 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know that the rendering for the Book-Cadillac has a big bright red "Westin" sign on top. I do not see nothing wrong with signs on buildings, it makes sense to put them on there.
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Scottr
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Post Number: 405
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Posted on Friday, March 16, 2007 - 10:24 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you look at older pictures of downtown, many buildings have HUGE garish signs on top. It's nothing new, and if anything, the newer ones look better than the old ones with their supporting structures. Also, with all the hotels moving in downtown, I'm not surprised they wanted their name somewhere more visible.
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Jt1
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Post Number: 8558
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Posted on Friday, March 16, 2007 - 10:25 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Neon lights and signs on businesses are a good fall back when the streetlights are out.
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Quinn
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Username: Quinn

Post Number: 1196
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Posted on Friday, March 16, 2007 - 10:26 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I like lit signs on buildings...most of the time. Just not here. And I'm not for multiple logo's/branding on buildings. I guess that's my point.

1. It detracts from the GM logo.
2. It creates confusion...I can see visitors thinking that is the hotel tower.
3. Why bother...it's added expense that isn't going to help drive people to your establishment. What...putting a sign up on your detroit hotel is going to make the statement that, "You've Arrived?"

#3 makes me think that GM saw it as a little bit of revenue to dump into their troubled coffers. They are probably charging Mariott and arm and a leg for the space.
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Cmubryan
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Post Number: 392
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Posted on Friday, March 16, 2007 - 10:38 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I disagree, I think it's about time!

Most other major cities with downtown highrise hotels have the hotel names displayed brightly at the top of their hotels. The Courtyard doesn't do this except for a tiny sign over the atrium part facing southeast. The Ponch has nothing but hopefully will put the Sheraton logo at the top soon (where Crowne Plaza and before that Pontchartain were proudly displayed), Milner finally put something after Madison-Lenox was torn down and the Hilton Garden has a nice one. Holiday Inn has the electrical to put one because there used to be a sign at the top when it was the HOJO, Days Inn and even most recently as the Best Western.
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Fastcarsfreedom
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Post Number: 150
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Posted on Friday, March 16, 2007 - 11:18 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't like the Marriott sign--I actually noticed it from Windsor and initially thought it was weird reflection of the Penobscot ball. I do remember the Manufacturers/Comerica sign up there--but it was more subtle--clearly John Portman never intended signage on those four towers (or anywhere actually)--but they really disrupt the "architecture" of the office towers...the GM signage works great on the Marriott itself, interestingly.
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Planner_727
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Username: Planner_727

Post Number: 94
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Posted on Friday, March 16, 2007 - 11:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

"How odd...a Marriott logo where Comerica used to be, and above where GM now is (and GM on the Mariott hotel)... "

... AND in an office complex built by Ford!
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Boynamedsue
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Username: Boynamedsue

Post Number: 10
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Posted on Friday, March 16, 2007 - 11:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you are visitor, how else are you going to know that a Marriott hotel is in that tower? Aside from the small signs in front, there is no highly visible sign. Business is business. If you don't like the sign, GET OVER IT...
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Sirrealone
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Username: Sirrealone

Post Number: 7
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Posted on Friday, March 16, 2007 - 11:54 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What's the big deal? EDS has had a sign on their tower (500) for years? Marriott is in the biggest tower of the complex. It makes sense that they have their presence known.

I guess all buildings should remove their signs and people should just figure it out for themselves where things are.

Geez, for everyone that complains the city doesn't get enough recignition...well, why wouldn't you want the rest of the world to know that a well respected national hotel chain is available in the tallest building in the city? Or, should people just figure it out for themselves and those who don't, they don't belong here anyways, right? Give me a break.
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East_detroit
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Username: East_detroit

Post Number: 1013
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Posted on Friday, March 16, 2007 - 12:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I like the sign on the Compuware Bldg. Very subdued and classy.
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Sknutson
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Posted on Friday, March 16, 2007 - 12:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think the signs show vitality. How many visitors to the city suspect that most of the buildings are sitting empty? The signs show that there is life in the buildings.
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Quinn
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Username: Quinn

Post Number: 1197
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Posted on Friday, March 16, 2007 - 12:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Boynamedsue, because it's not in that tower.

Anyway...nothing to get over. Started out as a friendly debate. Maybe somebody else needs to get over themselves. You're the one posting a spastic, ill thought-out comment. Do you really think people are going to come here without a hotel reservation? Get off the plane, take a cab or rental car downtown and say, "Now where do I stay...lets see...can't m a k e o u t a n y b u i l d i n g s i g n a g e . . . h m m m m m."

Sknutson, I don't disagree. In general it does show vitality. Just wondering if that outweighs the confusion it could possibly bring being on the wrong tower and the distraction from GM's brand.
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Stephenvb
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Posted on Friday, March 16, 2007 - 12:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I haven't seen the Marriott signage, but the GM emblems have never offended me even though they are on the hotel tower.

GM bought the building as their headquarters and the placement of the signage in the most prominent location(s) reinforces that this is the GM Building.

I definitely wouldn't like seeing Marriott up there...
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Scottr
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Post Number: 406
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Posted on Friday, March 16, 2007 - 12:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Having never been in the RenCen, i'm not sure, but aren't all the towers connected at the base? or does each have a separate entrance? If not, why would it matter what sign is on what tower?

Quinn, even those who DO have reservations may still not know what building they are going to, even if it is the single most recognizable building in Detroit. Never underestimate the stupidity of the American public. Sure, if they don't know their way around, they should probably take a cab, but again, the stupidity thing...

Also, it works as advertising for the NEXT time someone comes. maybe they didn't spend the night now, or had a bad experience at the hotel they did, now they may remember the marriot and try it.
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Ramcharger
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Post Number: 218
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Posted on Friday, March 16, 2007 - 1:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sometimes a sign is just the accent a building needs. For example, I don’t think I’ll ever get used to the Cadillac Center Building without the “General Motors” sign burning brightly atop it. However, I don’t think the design of the RenCen lends itself to signage. I have never liked any of them, including the current “GM” signs.
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Fastcarsfreedom
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Username: Fastcarsfreedom

Post Number: 153
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Posted on Friday, March 16, 2007 - 2:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Exactly as Ramcharger says, the design of the building doesn't lend itself to signage. The EDS signage looks fine where it is--but 500 and 600 Towers are entirely different than 100/200/300/400.

Portman's intended most of his "signature" buildings to be bland on the outside and spectacular on the inside (we've debated the merits of his stylings before, it's not intended as a celebration or damnation of his work) but I'm sure if you check the majority of his hotels, the Atlanta Hyatt and Marriott, the Westin Peachtree, the Westin Bonaventure--these buildings don't have exterior signs and people still find them and rent rooms. It's not like the RenCen Marriott depends on drive-by traffic for patronage.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 3826
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Posted on Friday, March 16, 2007 - 2:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why don't they put "CHEVY", "BUICK" and "CADILLAC" on the other 3 towers. That way they will balance each others garishness...
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Detroitstar
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Username: Detroitstar

Post Number: 547
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Posted on Friday, March 16, 2007 - 3:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think it is great, classy signage. It's not like it's a 50 foot neon sign on top of tower 100.

Every single visitor coming off 375 onto Jefferson will look up at the famous Ren Cen and notice that sign. I hope it keeps the business coming in.

(Message edited by DetroitSTAR on March 16, 2007)
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Boynamedsue
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Posted on Friday, March 16, 2007 - 4:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not to forget that there are 200,000 canadians across the river that can see the sign...

Quinn- what part of my comment was ill thought out? As I said the 'tower,' I was referring to the entire complex, the renaissance center.
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Fastcarsfreedom
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Username: Fastcarsfreedom

Post Number: 154
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Posted on Friday, March 16, 2007 - 5:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually Boynamedsue--the sign is on the 100 Tower facing northwest--we can't see it in Windsor--it just looks like a red reflection from Riverside Drive.
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3rdworldcity
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Username: 3rdworldcity

Post Number: 552
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Posted on Friday, March 16, 2007 - 5:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The best motel sign I ever saw was a huge billboard on top of a dingy, hot-sheets, by-the-hour motel in Jersey:

"LOVE THY NEIGHBOR. HERE."
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Burnsie
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Post Number: 900
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Posted on Friday, March 16, 2007 - 5:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I wish the GM signs would have been put at the very top of the RenCen and that white ring eliminated-- the white ring interrupts the continuous flow of glass from bottom to top.

Gsgeorge wrote, "i hate lighted signs and billboards on buildings...I'm kind of a 'the architecture speaks for itself' guy"

So you would have hated the HUDSON'S sign on the Hudson's building, too? Even though the Hudson's tower was designed with the sign's placement in mind?

"but in cash-strapped detroit, we'll do anything to 'spruce up' its landmarks..."

Huh? This isn't about "sprucing up" a landmark. It's about a hotel wanting its location to be known to people who otherwise wouldn't know it's there. Give me a break.
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Detroitstar
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Post Number: 548
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Posted on Saturday, March 17, 2007 - 2:04 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You don't ever hear people bitching that there was a giant sign on top of the Book Caddy.

Some people are so dense...
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 3831
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Posted on Saturday, March 17, 2007 - 2:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just look at pictures of Detroit in the 1920's. Huge signs everywhere! All the theatres had signs on top (the Fox, Michigan, Madison) as well as vertical signs along the side of the building.

The Michigan Theatre had the tallest vertical marquee ever constructed (according to AMERICAN PICTURE PALACES by David Naylor), rising a full 10 stories along the side of the 13 story building. And above that they had an enormous 6 story sign on top of the Michigan Building.
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Downtown_remix
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Username: Downtown_remix

Post Number: 12
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Posted on Saturday, March 17, 2007 - 2:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I read this post, walked out on my balcony at Trolley Plaza and bammm...new red light shining in the sky, i love it.,
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 434
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Posted on Saturday, March 17, 2007 - 9:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How do you like living at the Trolley, remix?
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Downtown_remix
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Username: Downtown_remix

Post Number: 17
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Posted on Saturday, March 17, 2007 - 10:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

TROLLEY IS LIKE ALOT OF AREAS MAKING A COMEBACK,LOTS OF SUBURBANITIES MOVING IN THE BUILDING,READY FOR THE FUTURE DOWNTOWN.NOT QUITE ON RIVERFRONT OR MILLENDER STATUS, BUT THE BEST LAYED BACK VERSION OF THE 2,CHEAPER TOO
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Iddude313
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Username: Iddude313

Post Number: 48
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Posted on Sunday, March 18, 2007 - 2:16 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the more lights in the sky the better.
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Erikd
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Username: Erikd

Post Number: 827
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Posted on Sunday, March 18, 2007 - 5:29 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Having never been in the RenCen, i'm not sure



You have 406 posts on this forum, but you have never been in the RenCen?

Have you ever been to Detroit?
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Chow
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Username: Chow

Post Number: 359
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Posted on Sunday, March 18, 2007 - 5:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

can someone post a photo for us detroit expatriates?
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Scottr
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Username: Scottr

Post Number: 429
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Posted on Sunday, March 18, 2007 - 9:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

You have 406 posts on this forum, but you have never been in the RenCen?

Have you ever been to Detroit?



Actually, I was in the RenCen once when I was about 6, and remember nothing about it. I've never had a reason nor opportunity to go in there since.

Yes, I have been to Detroit. Regardless, I wasn't aware that was a prerequisite for caring about the city, nevermind posting on this forum.

What exactly is your point? You couldn't just answer the question?
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Gannon
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Post Number: 8562
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Posted on Sunday, March 18, 2007 - 10:15 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lotsa sunshine, I'll drive down and see how good a pic I can grab.

Be right back.
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Gannon
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Post Number: 8564
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Posted on Sunday, March 18, 2007 - 10:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Mariott sign on RenCen
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Gannon
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Post Number: 8565
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Posted on Sunday, March 18, 2007 - 10:48 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In context:


Mariott Sign in perspective
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Rbdetsport
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Username: Rbdetsport

Post Number: 252
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Posted on Sunday, March 18, 2007 - 11:29 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Very Bright from Joe Louis last night.
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Gannon
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Posted on Sunday, March 18, 2007 - 11:50 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Perhaps the problem is that they are using the new LED technology that makes signage and brake lights into weapons.

First saw it on the approach to Las Vegas from LA...that little casino just across the NV border on I-15.

They are WAY too bright to be in anyone's field of view when driving...and those new cop lights are an assault, too.

A wee indicator of how well the REAL LED weapon works...they can pulverize your retina with such intensity as to stun.

I'll see if I can get a night pic, and would LOVE some information on the sign construction.

It will only be a matter of time before we will need legislation to curb abuses, not unlike the sound pressure regulation...when some are forced into epileptic seizures from the flashing bright signs.

Take a walk through NYC's Times Square...you'll know what I mean...they are beyond needing this sort of thing. Vegas, too.
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Quinn
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Post Number: 1198
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Posted on Sunday, March 18, 2007 - 2:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gannon thanks for those pics! Looking at it in the day, it's almost invisible...and I don't mind it at all.

At night it's like the death star.
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Burnsie
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Posted on Sunday, March 18, 2007 - 9:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Right on, Gannon, about the brightness of some LED displays. Better put your shades on at night if they start making LED headlights. Or have they already? I know that white LED light has taken longer to perfect than colors.
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Enduro
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Posted on Sunday, March 18, 2007 - 9:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I hear ya, Gannon. I always thought there should be a law against putting police car lights in store windows. A lot of dollar type stores have these obnoxious spinning lights in their window that are dangerous.
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Scottr
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Post Number: 431
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Posted on Sunday, March 18, 2007 - 10:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

burnsie - white LED's have been around for a while now, and headlights are already on the way...

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gad gets/first-led-headlights-appe ar-unleash-astonishing-styling -possibilities-210326.php
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 8586
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Posted on Monday, March 19, 2007 - 3:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just because they can make them shine white, doesn't mean that light is available usefully, accurately, reliably, and cheaply in mass production, THAT is what they've been perfecting recently.


Neutral density filter material.

That's all I have to say...someone should invent a spray that can be applied to head- and brake-lights to reduce their output by a certain percentage per application.

LEDs need to be tamed, their light is offensive to the mere human perceptual machine.

In many ways they are worse than fluorescents and other rapid discharge gasses that flicker.

Same with some of our new television technology...although oddly an acronym only a letter away from these light-needles, LCD, is the best of that stuff.

Rear and front projectors will benefit from LED technology (Samsung marketed a Digital Light Processing, or DLP, RP product lit with devices from Luminus Technologies last year...although, oddly I haven't seen other brands jumping on this bandwagon...they must like the recurring revenue and poisoning our landfills with mercury from dead bulbs MORE), which has been modified using nano-technology to columnate or aim the light emitted from the diode...and these new LEDs are scalable, so they can assemble all sorts of arrays.
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Gravitymachine
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Post Number: 1543
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Posted on Monday, March 19, 2007 - 4:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the new Audi R8 sports car is the first production car to have full LED headlights. Lexus was the first to use them, but their application was coupled with traditional bulbed hi-beams

http://forums.thecarlounge.net /zerothread?id=3103358
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Quinn
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Username: Quinn

Post Number: 1205
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Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 8:50 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Guys, I was driving down Lafayette this morning around 7:30 and was admiring the sun rising on the Renaissance. As soon as I got close enough, somewhere around Chene, the Mariott sign came into view.

There is something definitely wrong with the sign...it's got an unnatural (sure from the led's) light...like looking at a red dwarf star. I stopped at a red light at St. Aubin, got my camera phone out for a fabulous picture, and just as I'm about to press the capture button...it turns off. So coincidental it made me laugh.

Seriously...I think there is an alien conspiracy here. Aliens have placed special light transmitters in that sign to brain wash us and get us ready for invasion. They were reading my mind, and because they didn't want any undo attention paid to the sign, turned it off before I could snap my picture.

Or something like that.
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Detroitstar
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Post Number: 551
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Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 9:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So you were admiring the sunrise in your rear view mirror? That's probably not a safe way to be driving. :P
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Gannon
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Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 9:05 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm not so sure this is that great an issue...I jogged down to the river this morning before and during the sunrise...even before dawn peaked there was enough cloud cover on the eastern horizon to contrast the sign, and it wasn't THAT bad.

It is high enough above ground to ONLY distract the most obsessive of drivers, like perhaps the ones who'd drive watching a sunrise in their rear-view mirrors.


I guess I have to be a wee less bold jay-jogging in the mid-digit hours.


When I get the chance, I'll bring out my motherfucker Minolta 1/3rd degree spot light meter, and compare illumination intensity of various signs in the city.

Who-hoo, another hobby.
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Quinn
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Username: Quinn

Post Number: 1212
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 10:05 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Sunrising ON the renaissance. It's glass...it's reflective...you know. Right? Hhahaha

It's really not a big deal...I just think it's funky. Saw it again late last night on the way home from Oakland County and still think it detracts from the GM sign. Oh well...not everyone can be perfect like me.

Ahem.
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Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon

Post Number: 8705
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 11:30 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LOL!


Change is tough to accept, especially when that change is another corporate logo in your face.

Even if it IS 45-odd stories up...probably why they added the extra brightness. We're lucky they didn't make it yellow-green, we can see that color even EASIER than red...although the psychology of color is angrier with red.

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