Discuss Detroit » Archives - Beginning January 2007 » Kwame or Archer? Who did what? « Previous Next »
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Korridorkid
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Username: Korridorkid

Post Number: 14
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 9:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe some of you could help me.

Maybe i didn't always pay enough attention. Maybe i didn't always care.

But it seems to me that the Archer/Admisistration really set a foundation for all the improvements that Kwame has taken credit for. But then again, even though I voted for Hendrix, I feel it's necessary to give Kwame his due wherever applicable. Can anyone start a list of percieved or factual improvements that these men should be properly credited towards?

My apologies if this has already been discussed ad nauseum. If so, toss it.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2531
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 10:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well KK can claim this one as his own: TIME NAMES THE FIVE BEST BIG-CITY MAYORS IN AMERICA

New York & TIME Magazine names the five best big-city mayors in America in this week's issue (on newsstands Monday, April 18). The five best include Atlanta Mayor Shirley Franklin, Baltimore Mayor Martin O'Malley, Chicago Mayor Richard Daley, Denver Mayor John Hickenlooper, and New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg. San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom earned an honorable mention. TIME also names the worst big-city mayors: Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick, Philadelphia Mayor John Street, and San Diego Mayor Dick Murphy.

Kwame Kilpatrick- Detroit: Equally at home in senior centers and hip-hop concerts, Kwame Kilpatrick, 34, inspired Detroit voters with his energy and determination when he rode into office three years ago. But a cherry red Lincoln Navigator has put a big dent in his reputation. After weeks of denying it, the mayor admitted in January that the city paid $24,995 to lease just such a car for his wife. That outlay showed what Alan Ehrenhalt, executive editor of Governing Magazine, calls a tin ear for symbolism, given that Detroit's $230 million budget deficit has prompted the mayor to eliminate 3,000 city positions and end 24-hour bus service, TIME reports.

(Message edited by LivernoisYard on February 14, 2007)
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Granmontrules
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Username: Granmontrules

Post Number: 22
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 10:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This story is two years old?

I personally have no problem with the mayor and think he is doing a remarkable job since being re-elected.
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Korridorkid
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Username: Korridorkid

Post Number: 17
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 10:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Haha! I love it!
Wonder if he'll wash it down with a bottle of Moet & Chandon Nectar Imperial Rose on the city's tab?
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Blort
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Username: Blort

Post Number: 14
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 11:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kwame is a joke. Amazing how such a hack manages to get himself re-elected. What is wrong with people?
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Quinn
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Username: Quinn

Post Number: 1143
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 12:35 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh God...are you serious? Here we go again.

If all the stuff that's happening now is due to Archer, and you think Kwame is SO horrible, then don't you think Kwame would have had enough time now to screw it all up by now? According to many on this forum, he sucks so bad we should be back in the stone ages. You can't have it both ways.

I mean, come on. You all think he's such a dipshit...but not enough of one to totally screw up Archer's fabulousness? Get real.

Archer did some stuff...sure. He fubared too. Kwame screwed up some stuff...sure. He's done some good too. Take a look at what's going on NOW...you people are still talking about who gets credit for what?

Enough already.
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Korridorkid
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Username: Korridorkid

Post Number: 18
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 12:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I can understand that this may be tedious but I really hoped i could figure out maybe if Kwame isn't as bad as some people say. How many credentials does he have in his corner?

Im objective on both of them (harder on Kwame due to the Navigator and such, but still 67% objective). Were talkin a barebones list here. Yea or Nay on certain projects/developments/issues. Or is there just gray areas?
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Chitaku
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Username: Chitaku

Post Number: 1148
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 12:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Coleman
Kwame
Couzens - Dipshits
Cobo
Archer
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 5123
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 1:18 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Archer laid the foundation for quite a few projects, downtown, that Kilpatrick brought to fruition. But, that can be said of almost any mayor, anywhere, since it often takes a full mayoral term (an average four year term) to get things rolling on particular projects in divested cities.
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Warrenite84
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Username: Warrenite84

Post Number: 33
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 3:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If I remember correctly, Archer was responsible for upgrading the city's computers from the punch card system.

He also got Comerica Park , Ford Field, Riverwalk, and Compuware projects going.
That in turn made it possible to have Super Bowl 40.His lobbing efforts brought us an empowerment zone also.
His only miss in my book was the casino placement along Jefferson idea, and the Hudson's implosion. Although Compuware may have been contingent on Hudson's removal.

Kilpatrick can be credited for starting the facade improvements, and downtown streets prepped for the Super Bowl.

His misses. Where do I start? The Madison/Lennox, the Statler, the Lincoln Navigator, firing the cop investigating the Manoogian Mansion Party, and not firing Christine" Do you know the fuck you are talking to"Beatty. What did I miss?

Archer got the ball rolling by extending the hand of cooperation to the burbs and they responded by investing in Detroit. During Kilpatrick's reign, development happened in spite of him.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 5124
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 6:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think it's rather ironic that people think Kilpatrick is an enemy of the suburbs when some of his largest contributors are suburbanites, in fact, I believe he got more suburban/outside money than Hendrix did. And, his connections throughout metro Detroit are extensive and real.

He may not be as publically falling all over the suburbs as Archer was, but you better believe that when this guy gets behind closed doors with suburban investors he works the room. Kilpatrick is a lot of negative things, for sure, but I definitely wouldn't describe development happening in spire of him, or anti-outside investment. I really don't know where that comes from.
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Rjlj
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Username: Rjlj

Post Number: 261
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 10:50 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kwame does not lead anything, he is simply a figurehead. Anyone can sell city property and eliminate jobs to save money. What foundation is he laying to create future jobs and bring more revenue to the city? You can only sell so much. There is a huge difference between a leader and a subordinate. The city needs to wake up.
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El_jimbo
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Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 52
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 11:54 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Archer also ballooned the city payroll during his administration, leading to the glut of city employees that Kwame has been cutting since he took office.
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Quinn
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Username: Quinn

Post Number: 1144
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 12:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One thing I just thought of...the NEZ stuff was an idea he agreed with and he pushed that through. Without that I wouldn't be getting a break on my taxes this year.

Archer was approached by the same woman regarding NEZ and ignored her.

All of you who complain about Kwame and wish for the archer years...you can't have it both ways.

1. If Archer laid the ground work for everything good that's happening...then he should get credit.

2. If Archer laid the ground work for everything then he's got to take credit for the crap too.

It's too convenient an argument to say that All the good stuff is Archer but when bad stuff happens it's Kwame.

Sure Archer laid the groundwork for Compuware, Comerica Park and Lions. He also gave us some shitty deals on the Casino's, rammed through a demolition of one of Detroit's greatest architectural wonders (Hudsons), bloated city government to over twice the size it was, left the city with huge debt and didn't do too much for the neighborhoods...and don't forget he quit on us. He didn't loose an election...he abandoned his office.

Kwame did some VERY smarmy things when he took over, but by no means did he inherit the Emerald City. And, I'd argue, that if he was as incompetent as you all think he is, would have screwed up all the "fabulous" things archer has done.

No...I think some of you need to get over SUV's, Security Staff, Earings, etc. and take a look around.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 3636
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 1:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quinn, I agree with most everything you said... but I think Archer probably left because he got tired of the "Call 'em Out Coalition", the ones who tried to recall him. He got tired of the character assassinations from such rags such as The Michigan Citizen, who were attacking him and his family. He got tired of Don Barden badmouthing him over the sour grapes of not getting a casino license. And he got tired of Detroiters saying he "wasn't black enough".

(Message edited by Gistok on February 15, 2007)
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Quinn
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Username: Quinn

Post Number: 1145
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 2:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Probably right...but man, that's the life a politician should sign up for, no?

Given that criteria, Kwame should have hung it up a long time ago.

I remember at the time he said something like, " I just want to be able to go to the movies with my wife and not be bothered."

There's a certain selflessness that SHOULD come with politicians...you know, the whole working for the greater good. I didn't get that feeling from him...especially with that weak sign off.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 3640
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 2:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One does have to have a thick skin to be a politician, that is for sure!! :-)
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Korridorkid
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Username: Korridorkid

Post Number: 21
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 2:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does anyone think that -outside of his potential or actual political merits-which i know he has several, that there were other reasons for his initial election and subsequent re-election? Image perhaps?

I recall something to the effect that his supposed "gangsta/thug/playa/pimp appeal" won him majority of the vote from African americans aged 18-30. Now i don't know, or think, that they represent a majority or thats even a reason, yet i am aware of how much image does play a role in a political arena.

I ask this gently and without offensive provocation---Would Kwame have been elected on his political merits and relative platform if he looked like Gil Hill?
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2540
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 3:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rumor was that the KK campaign got the word out through the barber shop/hairdresser circuits that his opponent wasn't black enough, as his mother was born in Austria.
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Quinn
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Username: Quinn

Post Number: 1146
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 3:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well Gill Hill couldn't formulate a complete sentence.

Livernoisyard, you're talking about Hendrix. That was definitely his campaign to lose, and, somehow, he lost it. Big Time. Nobody saw that coming...remember?

In general, I don't think people vote for someone because they hate the other guy...so in that regard, livernoisyard, your idea wouldn't work. I think they just didn't like Hendrix enough to switch.

I think alot of you guys are forgetting how diss-illusioned we were with Archer when he decided to step down. I know many of my friends in the historic preservation movement were livid with him. Kwame was such an easy target (his fault too) that everyone forgot that. All of a sudden in or around 2003 this re-invention of Archer was God thing happened...

I guess that was an illusion though given the outcome of his self appointed successor's campaign.

Man that campaign tanked HARD too.
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El_jimbo
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Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 54
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 4:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Also, something to think about...after 20 years of Coleman Young, a drunk orangatan probably looked like a good mayor. I think that the fact that he wasn't CAY helped boost his image.
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Korridorkid
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Username: Korridorkid

Post Number: 24
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 1:25 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good call.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 395
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 11:05 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It wasn't exactly a secret that Hendrix's mother was white. Not during the campaign nor before it.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 8328
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 11:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I recall something to the effect that his supposed "gangsta/thug/playa/pimp appeal" won him majority of the vote from African americans aged 18-30.



Or maybe people in that age bracket could relate to him and liked what he had to say. This is such an unscientific, loaded statement that it is just pure crap.

That would be like saying the over 50 crowd in OC vote for Patterson because they liked the fact that he liked to go golfing and get liquored up while doing so. Maybe they just like his politics.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 396
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 11:20 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe Archer left office because he believes in term limitations?
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Quinn
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Username: Quinn

Post Number: 1149
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 12:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think if that were the case he would have said that. You're grasping at straws.

Maybe Archer left because he was afraid he's screwed the city up too much, or Kwame's thugs told him they's give him and 'ole "jimmy hoffa" if he didn't step down.

Any other ideas?

hhahahahaha
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 399
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 12:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, you didn't disprove my initial idea, so no, I don't have any others.
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Quinn
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Username: Quinn

Post Number: 1150
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 12:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't have to disprove your idea at all...where are we? Lala land? You prove your idea...I've never heard or read anything about Archer saying, "I'm stepping down because I want to make a statement about Term Limitations."

My point is that your idea is as ludicrous as mine were...your's only paints Archer in a "saintly" light.

Were you here to vote in 2001? It was awful. We had Kwame, who at the time I detested because I didn't think he was experienced enough, and Gill Hill, who like I've said before couldn't muster the strength to give a 1 minute, coherent speech and seemed really old-school and regressive.

I was PISSED at Archer for dumping out of the race so late that we were stuck with these two nincompoops. If he has so high and mighty a reason as "I believe in term limits" then he should have said it then. I thought he was doing an adequate job (I've done my homework and think that this isn't true now) and would have voted for him.

If he hadn't dropped out of the race Kwame would not have run.

Having said that...I held my breath and voted for Kwame. I couldn't bear to vote for Hill, but was disgusted with my choices.

I'm glad that Detroit is prospering now and really happy that Kwame seems to have his stuff together...seriously. Look around...besides the horribly rotten regional economy, there are great things happening that he's in direct control of.

I you've got a link to some news article where Archer says, "You know...I really believe that a mayor should only be in office for two terms and I believe someone else can do a better job than me," or something along those lines...then prove me wrong. I'd have more respect for Dennis.

-Q
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 401
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 1:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was really only speculating, as you were too. I was there in 2001 and I voted for KK for the same reasons that you did. I agree that Kwame had a horrible 1st term and that's he a much... more tolerable mayor now. I don't agree that Archer was a bad mayor. For what it's worth, the things he accomplished, or got the ball rolling on, breathed life back into a dead city core. There are things that I'm not pleased with that he let go down (residency rule, school takeover), but I can just about say that about any politician for whom I have ever voted.
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Matt_the_deuce
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Username: Matt_the_deuce

Post Number: 705
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 3:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Archer took full advantage of a honeymoon period that was much longer and more intense than you'll likely see again.

Coming off the Coleman Young years, I would say Archer had it a lot easier than Kwame does. Booming 90's economy, pre-911, so much goodwill coming his way, it was ridiculous. He did bring people together, but he didn't possess very good managerial skills. He bloated the city ranks and majorly messed up the riverfront casino plan (thank god) I'll give him the empowerment zone and the two stadiums, but what else did he really do besides make suburbanites feel better about the city because he was a decent, kind man?

Kwame has had to do the heavy lifting. Cutting city bureaucracy, dealing with a horrible economy etc. The shit storm didn't really hit until Kwame was in office, and I think he's doing a pretty good job dealing with it. He had some missteps the first term, but he is no dummy and he's got the energy and smarts to have a fighting chance of pulling the city through these trying times. Don't let the bad PR crap cloud your judgement too much.

The casino deals, riverfront revitalization, development investment downtown and in midtown are HUGE investment victories, much larger than the two stadiums and empowerment zone in terms of dollars - and let's not forget a succesful Super Bowl showing.

Kwame hasn't finished his two terms either.
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Dougw
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Username: Dougw

Post Number: 1555
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 3:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

An editorial last week from Keith Crain on the mayor and the state of the city...

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/a pps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2007 0205/SUB/70202021/1061/kcrain

excerpt:
quote:

Keith Crain: There is a calm, but we hope no storm
By Keith Crain
Crain's Detroit Business
6:00 am, February 5, 2007

I am quite impressed with not only the job that Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick has been doing the past year or so, but what’s equally impressive is the persona that he is presenting to our city and to the nation. Our mayor has matured, and he is a great representative of Detroit.

Right now, it seems that in spite of all the problems, there is a bit of a calm about City Hall these days.

It could well be because of the disaster that has befallen our Detroit Public Schools or the financial disaster facing state government.

Whatever the reason, it seems the city of Detroit has a little breathing room to allow the City Council and the mayor to come to grips with the reality of the city’s economic situation.

Things in Detroit still are going to require a lot of pulling up by the bootstraps. But the one thing that gives me hope is that more and more of our community seems to be getting involved.

...

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Granmontrules
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Username: Granmontrules

Post Number: 23
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 5:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I remember reading this article and dug it up.

http://www.detroitnews.com/app s/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/200701 15/OPINION03/701150326

If the Detroit News is saying something good about a Detroit leader, well enough said!
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Korridorkid
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Username: Korridorkid

Post Number: 29
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 11:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hold on Jt1-

I hope you didn't interpret my statement as something that i personally believe or adhere to?
I had only mentioned that statement because I came across that opinion in some form of media outlet.

If I had offended your sensibilities in any way, I sincerely apologize. I do not wish that statement to be perceived in anyway associated with my personal beliefs.

I would hope that being adults, we on this forum would have enough consideration to not correlate certain posted-often reiterated-opinions and statements with the personal beliefs of the poster at first impulse.
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Mckrackin
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Username: Mckrackin

Post Number: 13
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 12:31 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The people of Detroit voted Coleman Young for over 20 years, clearly showing they are more than willing to shit in their own bed.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 8353
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 1:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Hold on Jt1-

I hope you didn't interpret my statement as something that i personally believe or adhere to?
I had only mentioned that statement because I came across that opinion in some form of media outlet.

If I had offended your sensibilities in any way, I sincerely apologize. I do not wish that statement to be perceived in anyway associated with my personal beliefs.

I would hope that being adults, we on this forum would have enough consideration to not correlate certain posted-often reiterated-opinions and statements with the personal beliefs of the poster at first impulse.



korridor, no problem. Your post made it clear that it was not specifically your opinion. I was just talking about the people that throw out wild card 'facts' like that.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 8354
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 1:48 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And to further clarify the wild card 'facts' comment wa not pointed towards you but the people that have made and continue to make claims like the one mentioned.
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Crash_nyc
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Username: Crash_nyc

Post Number: 761
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 1:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm not a big fan of either one, but I have to tilt the overall blame scale toward Archer, for his part in destroying the once-vibrant Rivertown.
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Granmontrules
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Username: Granmontrules

Post Number: 24
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 9:24 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

After reading these comments I am not sure what Archer can be credited with overall. I think most people felt he was great only because he followed Young. Personally I think Kilpatrick is more vibrant, intelligent, and personable (Archers seemed distant and aloof) than Archer. I also think with his mother in such a powerful position in DC as a congresswoman we as Detroit are set to reap some benefit from that.

Korridorkid - From us long term Detroiters what I tend to notice is that the press just like to bash our leaders and they seem to be especially after the mayor (or were) the article I posted above is about as good as you can get on the mayor. Whoever did what Archer/Kilpatrick or didn't do whatever doesn't matter at this point. Kilpatrick still has 3 more years to prove himself and more after that if he chooses. Archer is done. I believe that the best thing Archer did was to at least start a tone for Kilpatrick to pick up and carry or lose. I don't think he lost what Archer started he is just building on it.
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Firstandten
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Username: Firstandten

Post Number: 74
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 10:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I give the voters of Detroit a lot of credit. I feel they realize that during Kwame's first term he got caught up in the trappings of the office and lost his focus. That I believe was largely due to his youth. I think Kwame's now has his bearings and is doing a much better job given the little control he has over the local economy and the school system. Archer will be perceive as a better mayor than he actually was due to the fact the Detroit needed a 180 degree change from Coleman. Coleman as much as he was loved by us Detroiters probably overstayed his time in office by two terms and a change was badly needed.

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