 
Southwestmap
Member
Username: Southwestmap
Post Number: 700
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 11:21 am: |    |
There is an interesting story in today's New York Times about middle-class, educated people giving up on new Orleans and leaving. The reasons provided by one couple: "the attempted car-jacking of a pregnant friend (crime) the announced move to nashville by Ms. Larson's employer; the human feces deposited on their roof by, they suspect, the contractors next door, the two burglaries in the space of a week (crime) and, not least, the overnight wait for police to respond..."
The people leaving cite "high crime rates, soaring insurance premiums, and what many call a lack of leadership, competence, money and progress."
Crime was first. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 397
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 11:24 am: | |
Crime is not the result of ineffective policing.
To clarify, the job of the police is that of a reactive force. Reactions don't fix problems. They just make sure the shit doesn't fly too far when it hits the fan.
(Message edited by iheartthed on February 16, 2007) |
Jdkeepsmiling
Member
Username: Jdkeepsmiling
Post Number: 202
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 11:30 am: | |
Is there a website where you can get updated homicide numbers for major cities? |
Citylover
Member
Username: Citylover
Post Number: 2143
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 11:42 am: | |
It is the result of people breaking the law. It is also the entrenched culture of Detroit or many of the residents.
I submit this as an example
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20070216/NEW S01/702160346/1001/BUSINESS05
The cops are the culprit in the citizens eyes here.Nevermind someone shows up drunk to a funeral.Never mind the departed was shot in a drive by. Never mind the credibility of the "witnessesto the shooting st the funeral is zero or less this is the culture you all are dealing with.
I especially like the fact that one of these witnesses is a medical student.And I was touched that that the funeral program proclaimed the deceased a true soldier.........this is a convicted felon. Included in his fine soldiering career is a 1st degree murder charge the acuittal most likely done by witness intimidation. |
Goat
Member
Username: Goat
Post Number: 9220
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 12:00 pm: | |
Amen CL. The cops are blamed and the inmates continue run the asylum!
As for witness intimudation, I friend of mine was on jury duty for a murder about a year ago. The entire jury knew the accused was guilty but thet couldn't convict him because the one witness recanted what they had stated. Since the prosecutor couldn't prove "without a reasonable doubt" that the accused was guilty, they had to let him go free.
But hey! Detroit is improving. What is the homicide rate for this year so far?
Remember this mentality..."I got mine and I don't give a fuck how I got, but I got it!" |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 398
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 12:05 pm: | |
CL, if you're gonna start your argument with glaring inaccurate generalities then you might as well not even bother.
(Message edited by iheartthed on February 16, 2007) |
B24liberator
Member
Username: B24liberator
Post Number: 8
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 12:08 pm: | |
I have to agree to a certain extent anyway with exmotowner and city-lover-- Its not just the cops, but problems with the citizenry as well. Another example, is the murder of the young woman in line at a downtown club (I forget which one just now)during last year's Superbowl weekend... Its been over a year, and despite all this happening among a line of people, no one has stepped forward with any credible info as of yet, I have to wonder if people are that cowed or just uncaring and crass, like the "That's how we roll," phrase that came up from this sad incident. I'm left wondering sometimes. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 590
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 12:11 pm: | |
Citylover:
That article is disgusting, and you're right, this type of nonsense is ingrained into the culture of these clowns...not sure what the solution is, but these idiots will hinder any progress in the city by scaring away suburbanites who aren't accustomed to this type of horseshit...just like that moron who shot 8 people in Hart Plaza during the fireworks a few years ago while the NFL was in town making preps for the SB...so many in the city have no sense of community at all...they bitch about the plight of the city when they themselves are the problem... |
Janesback
Member
Username: Janesback
Post Number: 227
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 12:21 pm: | |
Southwestmap, I go to New.Orleans every 2 months or so, but it was so bad recently, even I have decided to forgo Mardi Gras this year. As a true person who loves to party, after I saw there the latest crime statistics showed 12 SHOOTINGS IN 7 HOURS, 9 people were shot in a bar that had over 150 people in it, I think thats the last straw for me.
I posted a comment from NOLA.COM, a site where citizens post crime and safety posts to warn or make neighbors aware of whats going on in the Big Easy. I saw this one, and it reminded me of what you had to say.That city begins to make Detroit look like paradise.
------------------------------ ----------
Cited from Nola.com
"If anyone is wondering why everyone with any sense in their head is leaving this town at the speed of light, just look at the homepage. The only solution is to have the military go door to door apprehending the thugs and sending them to Guantanamo. We're wasting our police resources to have Carnival, and nine people are getting "lit up" in seven hours. And we say this is a city of culture? It's a criminal culture alright. I guess I'll just go home, give my three year old a gun, and tell him to pop caps into the four year old on the school playground who kicked sand in his face. This place is pathetic. "
------------------------------ -----
NEW ORLEANS, THE LONGEST CASE OF SUICIDE IN THE HISTORY OF THE US......... Jane |
Zug
Member
Username: Zug
Post Number: 180
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 12:33 pm: | |
I just want to make a different point. I hear people talk about criminals like only certain people from certain places are capable of crime. If you ever drank alcohol while underage, did drugs, stole supplies from work, used illegally cracked software, cheated on a spouse, or did 40 in a 35, you are technically a criminal. Crime does happen everywhere. Extreme conditions does tend to promote extreme crime. I am not stupid, Detroit has more violent crime than the suburbs. But, my point is that tons of things trigger criminal behavior. Inability to afford desired things, having a government overturned, wanting to feel high, peer pressure, to feel power, late for work, dislike of a person, etc. I hate when people act as if only certain people are capable of acting in specific ways. I am NOT excusing criminal behavior. All crime is bad.
I was actually thinking more about a friend of mine who owns a business and was bitching about some kids who shoplift from him. He got pissed because I pointed out that he was recently bragging about never paying for any of the software on his computer because he could get cracks for them. Both are criminal activities. |
Southwestmap
Member
Username: Southwestmap
Post Number: 701
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 12:57 pm: | |
There is crime and there is violent crime - and that includes crime that makes people feel violated such as burglary.
I referenced the story about New Orleans because New2theeastside couldn't believe that people make decisions about where to live based primarily on whether violent crime is high or not. But yes, they do - it is the violent crime they worry about - not the unethical/criminal behavior that Zug describes. |
Supersport
Member
Username: Supersport
Post Number: 11267
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 1:27 pm: | |
quote:But hey! Detroit is improving. What is the homicide rate for this year so far?
20 have been reported, on par for the lowest year in decades. |
Citylover
Member
Username: Citylover
Post Number: 2144
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 1:38 pm: | |
I aint buying your implied logic sport.In order for a real reduction there needs to be a reason i.e. more police, beefed up prosecution or whatever....to just state detroit is on par for the lowest in decades means nothing. |
Detroitrulez
Member
Username: Detroitrulez
Post Number: 143
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 1:39 pm: | |
20 according to the police department? My goodness, that's great. Sounds like this problem is solved CL. |
Janesback
Member
Username: Janesback
Post Number: 229
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 1:41 pm: | |
Southwest map, here is the link.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02 /16/us/nationalspecial/16orlea ns.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref= slogin
I saw where one of the Uptown residents had pasted it in the forum. Geez, its bad there too. Some one posted that crime not only happens in Detroit, well heres proof.
-------------
Last week, a 17 year old inner city kid got into a fight with a 16 year old inner city kid. The 17 year old lost, went home and sulked. The mother , upset about her son losing, handed him a handgun after she loaded it for him, and told him to go back and "cap" the n&%$er.
The kid did exactly as his mom said, killed the 16 year old. Police now have him , as well as the mother in custody. Police noted a photo of the 17 year old in a photo at his home, holding a glock in one hand and a stash of cash in the other hand, His mother was the one who took the photo...
You think you've heard it all. Jane |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 8329
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 1:43 pm: | |
Goat and CL - Way to stereotype the entire city and all the residents. Showing your true colors.
I love how the two of you that don't know a thing about what the average Detroiter supports are f'in experts on this stuff.
There are certainly people in the neighborhoods that do not want to cooperate. There are also many cooperating with law enforcement and many that would like to but are scared to do so.
What is your suggestion for those that are scared of repercussions. Calling them names, claiming that 'they are running the asylum' does a whole lot doesn't it.
Crime in Detroit is an issue but it doesn't change the fact that the actions of some don't represent the entire city. You two are both stereotyping the entire populace. Morons.
quote:Remember this mentality..."I got mine and I don't give a fuck how I got, but I got it!"
Nice stereotype you ignorant fool. Have you considered the tens of thousands of Detroiters that sacrifice, that volunteer at non-profits, that mentor kids, that work to improve their communities? I guess those people don't count.
quote:The cops are the culprit in the citizens eyes here.Nevermind someone shows up drunk to a funeral.Never mind the departed was shot in a drive by. Never mind the credibility of the "witnessesto the shooting st the funeral is zero or less this is the culture you all are dealing with.
Never mid that is one incident. Should we list every fucking article were a citizen is working to improve their community.
Now what do you guys do to improve the situation. As I am guessing you guys don't life a damn finger. Nothing like criticizing without getting involved.
So let's hear it. Let's hear how you are doing anything to help the city. CL goes to an estate sale in Indian Village. Goat may tag along with AIW to snap a few pictures.
If you aren't doing anything to help you can take your sterotypical, ignorant comments and shove them up your hypocritical asses. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 8330
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 1:46 pm: | |
quote:I aint buying your implied logic sport.In order for a real reduction there needs to be a reason i.e. more police, beefed up prosecution or whatever....to just state detroit is on par for the lowest in decades means nothing.
Increases mean the city is doing nothing. Decreases means the city is getting lucky.
Great logic.
Sport - I am guessing the number is much higher. 20 homicides to date would imply around 200 or less. I don't see that being the case anytime soon. |
Citylover
Member
Username: Citylover
Post Number: 2145
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 2:00 pm: | |
but you none the less agree with me jt1 or you would not have responded to sport as you did_ |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 8332
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 2:07 pm: | |
I think crime is too high. I do not think that your perceptions of the majority of the city's populace are accurate. If anything you come of as a stereotypical ass that reads an article and decideds that represents the city.
Now what do you do to help anything in the city? It sure must be easy to be able to criticize everyone but not lift a finger.
The truth is you don't know what represents the typical Detroiter because there isn't a typical Detroit. You also have no right to criticize if you aren't willing to do a damn thing to help anyone or any organziation in the city.
You are one of millions that is waiting for others to improve the city to your liking.
Your rants get painfully old when you city in AA and judge and criticize everyone and everything in the city. If it is so horrible there is a lot of room for people like yourself to help out. Would you like me to list some non-profits, mentor groups (your real chance to change the situation). I'm sure that you don't care for me to list anything because you are resigned to bitch but not lift a finger.
Next time I am in AA and see a crime in progress I will be certain to look the other way then criticize the victim(s). I'd like to see how life is in your shoes. It sure must be easy to have all the answers but lack the motivation to do a thing. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 594
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 2:12 pm: | |
JT1:
Feel free to offer up what YOU think is the source fo the crime problem in Detroit since you don't like others' explanations...
And nobody said a MAJORITY of the city's people are criminals...but all things are relative, and compared to other places, the city has one hugh F-ing crime problem and the people as a whole lack any sense of community
(Message edited by thejesus on February 16, 2007) |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 8333
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 2:24 pm: | |
I really feel no need to respond to someone who states the quote below but I have a few extra minutes between meetings.
quote:this type of nonsense is ingrained into the culture of these clowns...not sure what the solution is, but these idiots will hinder any progress in the city by scaring away suburbanites who aren't accustomed to this type of horseshit
I love the fact that you obviously don't care about the citizens that do care about their community and fight this stuff on a daily basis. Nope. Those people don't count but damn, we better not scare off the suburbanites that may want to come down for a Tigers game.
The idiocy in your statement is appalling. It is apparent that you don't give a fuck about the people in the community but you want them to make it safe so that you can come to WSU without carrying your gun.
I suggest that you contact some of the volunteer groups and do your little thing to help out as opposed to waiting for others to bring the city up to your standard.
You are just one of millions that will bitch and expect others to improve things to your liking.
Here is an idea - help. The city needs help, the hard working citizens in the neighborhoods need help, the commmunity groups need help. I doubt their biggest concern is whether or not people from the suburbs feel safe driving through their neighborhood. They are concerned with improving their neighborhood for their day to day lives.
Maybe you, Goat and CL can get together and spend $20 at Slows and pat yourselves on the back how you are doing so much to help the citizens that are fighting for their communities.
Really going to a Tigers game is the same impact as volunteering in the community. A burger from Nemos is equivalent to hours of mentoring impoverished kids in the city. Maybe a glass of wine at Small Plates is equivalent to a day of work with habitat.
Now don't get me wrong; supporting business in the city is great but there is much more that Goat, CL or you could do to help even if it is the slighest amount. Until you actually know some people in community groups and neighborhoods and see how they are trying to maintain their community or their home you really have no right to bitch.
But I'll pass a word that you want ti safe enough for suburbanites to feel comfortable. The people here will be too stupuid to see hoe quickly you dismiss their day to day lives.
(Message edited by jt1 on February 16, 2007) |
Exmotowner
Member
Username: Exmotowner
Post Number: 98
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 2:27 pm: | |
Hey Jane. Yes, New Orleans is JUST as bad as detroit. I used to go down at least 2 sometime 3 or 4 times a year. I went last mardi gras and I didnt get mugged, but two of my buddies did, by 2 guys with machine guns. I have a lot of friends there, but a lot are looking at moving also. One is moving to Atlanta, and I think the other is coming to nashville. I love New Orleans and have always said "If god is good to me, he'll let me live there before I die". Well things would have to really turn around there also before I would consider that option as well. New Orleans is a battle zone and its not getting better. Looks like some of detroit is TRYIN to improve at least. (I may change my mind after my visit in May) LOL |
Exmotowner
Member
Username: Exmotowner
Post Number: 99
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 2:28 pm: | |
P.S. Won't be going back to New Orleans for a while either. Lots of safer places to go. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 8335
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 2:35 pm: | |
Just some quick suggestions for our local peanut gallery:
http://www.habitatdetroit.org/
http://www.stjohnsplymouth.org /whatsnew/Gleaners.htm
http://www.detroityouth.org/
http://www.greeningofdetroit.c om/det300.htm
http://www.blightbusters.org/
Then there are groups like U SPAN BAC, DPS, meals on wheels, etc that might be to your liking.
Let me know your interests and I'm sure I can match you up with a good non profit or neighborhood organziation.
It would probably take up too much of your valuable time. Afterall, someone else can do it. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 595
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 2:42 pm: | |
thanks JT, but I have my own...
www.lhod.org
know what you're talking about before you precede to run your mouth |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 8338
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 2:46 pm: | |
I stand corrected. Based upon your attitude towards the citizens of Detroit it is very surprising that you actually interact with some.
Do you carry your gun while you are volunteering? |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 596
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 2:49 pm: | |
do you have as much contempt for Detroit citizens who own firearms for personal protection as you do for me? |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 403
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 2:50 pm: | |
Exmotowner, bad luck just seems to follow you.
"Bad luck, that's what ya got, that's what ya got!"
-Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 8339
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 2:50 pm: | |
Yes. Moreso since the majority are not legally carried or legally owned. |
Corktownmark
Member
Username: Corktownmark
Post Number: 253
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 2:57 pm: | |
Who is behind ihod.org? I see the address is a P.O. and phone number are Troy MI. No name of any 503 or other recognized charity is listed. The site will conect you to paypal so you can give money though. I question if this thing exists outside the internet. Can you show anything concrete that will help validate this site? |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 597
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 2:58 pm: | |
ah I see, so you just don't like guns in general then? well, should you ever find yourself in a situation where a gun could save you or a loved one from evil, I hope sitting there and hoping things turn out ok works out well for you... |
Corktownmark
Member
Username: Corktownmark
Post Number: 254
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 3:02 pm: | |
so here is the info from whois ihod.org. not ver promesing for Detroiters.
Domain ID:D137722791-LROR
Domain Name:IHOD.ORG
Created On:19-Jan-2007 10:02:43 UTC
Last Updated On:19-Jan-2007 10:02:45 UTC
Expiration Date:19-Jan-2008 10:02:43 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:Melbourne IT, Ltd. dba Internet Names Worldwide (R52-LROR)
Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED
Status:TRANSFER PROHIBITED
Registrant ID:C116919427874542
Registrant Name:Therlyn Bibi
Registrant Street1:1118 Wintergreen Court
Registrant Street2:
Registrant Street3:
Registrant City:Desoto
Registrant State/Province:UT
Registrant Postal Code:75115
Registrant Country:US
Registrant Phone:+1.9726978633
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant FAX:
Registrant FAX Ext.:
Registrant Email:muslimnavyguy@yahoo.com
Admin ID:C116919427874539
Admin Name:Therlyn Bibi |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 8340
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 3:04 pm: | |
IN the same vein I hope you never find yourself in a situation where a loved one or you never deal with the tragedy of a misfired or found gun.
Seems to happen more often than self defense.
I have an issue with illegally owned guns and I have a problem with people that would not otherwise carry a gun feel the need to have one when driving through Detroit. I have probably driven more miles in the city than most will in their life. Still have yet to need a gun.
My issue with you is the need to come to a board and tell people you feel the need to carry a gun in their community, around my neighbors children, around any other citizen that happens across you. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 598
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 3:04 pm: | |
corktown:
LHOD is a 501(c)(3) group...
also, you can see the current and past projects on the left side of the homepage to see that lhod.org does in fact exist outside of the Internet...there are news articles about the organization there as well |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 599
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 3:11 pm: | |
JT, I've owned a handgun well before I was driving through Detroit 4 nights a week...I never felt the need to actually carry one in the places I've lived, however, since the crime rates have always been very low...but when the university I attend sends out a monthly newsletter to inform students how many armed robberies, larcenies, homicides, rapes, etc. occurred on campus during the prior month, that was a pretty good indication to me that my risk of becoming a victim of crime is higher than it used to be
the difference between you and I is that I act while you hope... |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 8341
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 3:15 pm: | |
quote:the difference between you and I is that I act while you hope...
The real difference is that we see life very, very differently. The vast, vast majority of crimes at WSU are property crimes. Look at the total number of people on campus and the surrounding area and the total number of violent crimes. You overstate the risk based upon your preconceived notions.
I guess my years of living in the city and years of study at WSU don't count when it comes to reality.
The odds of you shooting yourself, an innocent victim or your gun being stolen are higher than the odds of you being the victim of a violent crime on WSUs campus. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 600
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 3:16 pm: | |
corktown:
I don't know what info you're trying to gather by looking up our whois entry, but I can tell you that you looked up the wrong address above...it's LHOD.ORG, not IHOD.ORG |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 8342
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 3:23 pm: | |
This hardly seems to support the need for a gun at WSU.
Full year stats for WSU police (2005)
Homicide 0
Forcible Sex Offense 2
Non Forcible Sex Offense 0
Robbery 12
Aggravated Assault 3
Burglary 129
Larceny 500
Motor Vehicle Theft 41
Arson 3
2004 stats
Homicide 0
Forcible Sex Offense 1
Non Forcible Sex Offense 0
Robbery 8
Aggravated Assault 4
Burglary 158
Larceny 686
Motor Vehicle Theft 56
Arson 6
Should I list years 2000 to 2003. Your perception of the safety on WSU's campus is apparently not rooted in reality and certainly does not justify the need for a gun. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 8343
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 3:25 pm: | |
Forgot the linky: http://www.police.wayne.edu/cr imestats2006.html
Based on the stats are you willing to leave your gun at home when attending WSU? |
1st_sgt
Member
Username: 1st_sgt
Post Number: 28
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 3:27 pm: | |
If;
Michigan passed a concealed hand gun law where citizens could carry a weapon lawfully,
And you could defend yourself with out worry of prosecution.
1. Would you apply for a license and carry a weapon?
2. Do you think crime in the city would go down? |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 405
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 3:31 pm: | |
You should compare that to U-M's. That would be an eye opener... |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 8344
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 3:40 pm: | |
Different scenarios. UM covers a larger area and has a much more active student life. While I like that WSU is trying to shed the commuter image and have more kids on campus it is far from having the student life and the problems that come with student life. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 601
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 3:40 pm: | |
JT1,
No need...that's far more than what happens where I grew up, where I live, etc...if you grew up in Detroit, I'm sure those incidents look pretty low to you
Regardless, I'll tell you that I generally feel pretty safe on campus...it's driving though the outskirts of Detroit that makes me not want to become a sitting duck if my car breaks down sometime over the next 3 1/2
(Message edited by thejesus on February 16, 2007) |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 406
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 3:45 pm: | |
I grew up in Detroit and I don't agree. It's not the wild wild west like you try to paint it. |
Mackcreative
Member
Username: Mackcreative
Post Number: 35
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 3:53 pm: | |
I didn't grow up in Detroit, in fact moved here from Vermont (which most years has the very lowest crime rates in the nation,) living so close to Wayne State I'm pretty concerned about getting shot by thejesus though. |
Detroitrulez
Member
Username: Detroitrulez
Post Number: 144
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 3:59 pm: | |
pics? |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 603
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 4:05 pm: | |
Mack:
worry about the criminals...not law biding citizens like myself...
anyway, we beat this topic to death already in the thread below and I don't feel like going over it all again...we can just agree to disagree
https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/76017/77613.html |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 8345
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 4:10 pm: | |
quote:we can just agree to disagree
Agreed. |
Citylover
Member
Username: Citylover
Post Number: 2146
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 4:44 pm: | |
Jt1, I don't intend to paint every citizen as you think I would.Could you at least admit that the majority, and let us be frank here, of Detroit resident being black have a mistrust and disrespect of the police? There are enough people in Detroit with the same attitude of those at that funeral to make it a real problem.It aint just a handful or a few hundred it is thousands_ thousands of people in Detroit think the way those peope did.
I believe that in less dysfunctional cities that most people think like I do.They don't believe the "eyewitness accounts". On this particular story I believe the cops.There was a fight at a funeral.The cops came to break it up.A gun was brought out and subsequently and tragically someone was shot and killed by the police while pursuing the person with the gun_ that is what happened_ not the bullshit being fed to us by the witnesses.
I have read enough, seen enough and heard enough to know that this is pretty much the norm in inner city area's, including Detroit.The police have a hell of a time getting anyone to point out who the bad guys are.And the cops know that the people of the neighborhoods know who the bad guys are.
You suggest I do something directly.That is reasonable.But I already live somewhere where I am needed to do something directly. And why should anyone get involved in a city where there is such widespread disrespect for life and order and authority? It is rather distasteful that anyone would ask others to come and do what many of it's own citizens won't.
I know that there are thousands upon thousands of great Deroiters.Believe it or not I actually am friends with more than a few.I consider myself fortunate to know them.
Unfortunately there is a culture despite the good peoples presence that is fouling up your town_ and has been for a long time.......too godamn long. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 8349
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 4:48 pm: | |
quote:And why should anyone get involved in a city where there is such widespread disrespect for life and order and authority?
To make it better for the children and the people that are working to make it a better city. I appreciate the honesty in your assessment and your willingness to admit that you have no intention of doing anything to improve the city.
Carry on with your bitching.
quote:Unfortunately there is a culture despite the good peoples presence that is fouling up your town_ and has been for a long time.......too godamn long.
But we have millions that 'wish' it would get better. |
Citylover
Member
Username: Citylover
Post Number: 2147
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 5:02 pm: | |
Every place needs it's citizens participation Jt1. It seems to me that instead of accusing me of bitching you would direct that frustration toward the people of Detroit.The people that need to get involved in their city. I think if the city had ten thousand jt1s and another ten thousand Supersports and about fifteen thousand histerics and another eight thousand Gannons dispersed around detroit things might be different_ maybe there is already.......
As for my supossed unwillingness to help improve the city I commend you on not bring up my dope shooting days_ although I will say that more than once I had someone come out of their house in Detroit as I sat in my car and tell me to move the fuck on_ I did_ quite swiftly too.
Anyhow I do think there is a culture of disrespect and violence jt1.I just wish somehow it could be changed. |
Goat
Member
Username: Goat
Post Number: 9221
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 6:58 pm: | |
Jt1. I do quite a bit for my city so what about YOU? What makes you so great? I don't live in Detroit but I try to support it as best i can. Sorry I don't look through rose coloured glasses such as yourself.
Considering what I overhear when I am in Detroit the "I got mine" mentality is quite strong.
When I hear about people stealing bricks off a house you have to wonder what the hell is the problem? No matter how poor a person is you still no right from wrong.
Better yet. What about the people who lament Detroit but still break into houses to steal plumbing or break into cars.
The fact remains. Detroit's crime rate is one of the highest in North America...for a reason. So who is being the fool? Yeah Jt1, you have all the fucking answers. Give me a break.
So what is it you have done big guy?
I see the crime stats you provide and Detroit isn't the darling place you pretend it is to be. At least I am a realist living in the real world and not you with your head buried in the sand, fool! |
Goat
Member
Username: Goat
Post Number: 9222
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 6:59 pm: | |
CL, it is our fault don't you get it? Detroit is a victim! It is easier to complain about those who state the facts than it is to tackle the issue of crime in the city. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 8352
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 1:38 am: | |
Goat - You are completely missing the point. Never have I blamed you for the issues in the city. Never have I said that they don't exist.
The point I was making is that you guys do nothing but bitch and claim to be experts on the city but don't do a fucking thing for it. That is great you do things in your city as I expect everyone should support their own city. The problem is those of us that do something in Detroit to improve it get very tired of your rants and your 'expertise' on everyone and everything about the city.
I do not pretend Detroit is a darling place but I also don't believe that it is a place that requires someone to carry a gun everywhere they go.
Re-read my posts on this thread then give it a moment of thought. I am not blaming you or CL. I am telling you guys to step up and help if you are going to sit and bitch about the city and stereotype the populace based upon your limited knowledge. Sorry but spending a few bucks downtown and being AIWs lapdog doesn't make you an expert on the city.
So let me address your post point by point:
quote:Jt1. I do quite a bit for my city so what about YOU? What makes you so great? I don't live in Detroit but I try to support it as best i can. Sorry I don't look through rose coloured glasses such as yourself.
nothing makes me great. There are thousands upon thousands in the community that do more than I do. You describe them as having the attitude of 'fuck you, I got mine." If you don't understand how that is annoying you are extremely slow.
Spendin a few dollars in the city here and there does not make you the expert that you believe you are.
My glasses are tinted towards optimism but I know of the issues and spend numerous hours and thousands of dollars trying to help. Listening to you bitch but doing nothing beyond spending a few dollars downtown is annoying as hell.
quote:Considering what I overhear when I am in Detroit the "I got mine" mentality is quite strong.
When I hear about people stealing bricks off a house you have to wonder what the hell is the problem? No matter how poor a person is you still no right from wrong.
Better yet. What about the people who lament Detroit but still break into houses to steal plumbing or break into cars.}
Maybe we are hearing different people but that may be who you surround yourself with. I work with decent, caring people trying to make the city better so your flippant attitude and know it all claims of the citizens of the city annoys the shit out of me.
quote:When I hear about people stealing bricks off a house you have to wonder what the hell is the problem? No matter how poor a person is you still no right from wrong.
Better yet. What about the people who lament Detroit but still break into houses to steal plumbing or break into cars.
Glad you hear about it and are automatically an expert. There is no excuse for the actions of the criminals. The simple fact is it is a major issue that people in many communities must deal with everyday. You know, the people working to make things better. The ones that you seem to ignore or don't realize exist. I'm curtious how much interaction you have with people outside of Midtown/Downtown or taking pictures.
quote:The fact remains. Detroit's crime rate is one of the highest in North America...for a reason. So who is being the fool? Yeah Jt1, you have all the fucking answers. Give me a break.
So what is it you have done big guy?
Yes, crime is too high here and the communities need all of the help they can get. Maybe the experts such as you may even want to lend a hand to help improve the situation. The fact of the matter is you bitch about it, stereotype the people and feel that you have the right because you spend a few dollars here. If it bothers you that much help out the people working to make the city better otherwise STFU. As for what have I done I volunteer a lot of hours and donate a lot of money to non profits in the city. Would you like me to itemize them for you tough guy?
quote{I see the crime stats you provide and Detroit isn't the darling place you pretend it is to be. At least I am a realist living in the real world and not you with your head buried in the sand, fool!}
We are both realists when it comes to crime and crime stats. I try to help. You bitch about it while stroking yourself for spending money here.
I support all of the money spent on businesses in the city but if you are so bothered about the reality then help. I am asking you. No, I am begging you. Get involved and help make the city better. Telling us how it sucks and how ignorant everyone here is does wonders doesn't. Wait, a new pizza place is opening downtown - all is perfect.
quote:CL, it is our fault don't you get it? Detroit is a victim! It is easier to complain about those who state the facts than it is to tackle the issue of crime in the city.
Not blaming either of you for the problems but asking you to help as opposed to bitch. Pointing fingers and stereotyping doesn't do much to remedy the situation does it? |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 8356
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 2:37 am: | |
One more point:
Before people start claiming things like "Detroit won't turn around because of people like you" or "People like you are the reson I quit supporting the city" remember that I am reprsenting only my opinion and my opinion only. |
Paulmcall
Member
Username: Paulmcall
Post Number: 74
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, February 18, 2007 - 9:48 pm: | |
If the city is so safe, why are the bus drivers pleading for the police to ride on them?
Many people in the city need to help themselves instead of crying that it is everyone else's fault.
Folks have to stand up for themselves and demand better parenting, schools and control of violence.
When nothing gets done, they vote by leaving the city. |
Exmotowner
Member
Username: Exmotowner
Post Number: 102
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 8:56 am: | |
yes Iheartthed, I've had my share of bad luck. But shit happens. (unfortunately more to me than not). LOL Hopefully I wont have any bad luck on my trip up in May. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 620
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 7:42 pm: | |
http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll /article?AID=/20070216/NEWS01/ 70216025/1003/NEWS01 |
Paulmcall
Member
Username: Paulmcall
Post Number: 76
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 8:51 pm: | |
Lovely. |
Rhymeswithrawk
Member
Username: Rhymeswithrawk
Post Number: 288
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 1:20 am: | |
HEY, THEJESUS! CHECK THIS OUT!!!!
http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll /article?AID=/20070217/NEWS03/ 70217018/1005
HOMICIDE! In Oakland County! THE SUBURBS ARE NO LONGER SAFE!!!
Wow! Drugs!!! AND IN OAKLAND COUNTY, NONETHELESS!!!
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=200770220055
CHILD MOLESTERS! SWEET! I WANNA MOVE TO OAK PARK AND HAVE MY KIDS GO THERE!!!
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=200770216017
HOLY POTATOES! MURDERED CHILDREN!!! No way?! It's in MACOMB TOWNSHIP AND NOT IN DETROIT!??!?! IMPOSSIBLE!!!
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=200770215027
All right. I'm too tired to go looking through suburban Wayne County and at the Detroit News site. I think I made my point. |
Rhymeswithrawk
Member
Username: Rhymeswithrawk
Post Number: 298
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 1:42 am: | |
Whoa, missed one. Good thing I don't live in Oak Park: Not only would I be shot to death, but my kids would be molested at school. 
http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.d ll/article?AID=/20070221/METRO 02/702210308/1009
I had no idea Oakland County was so rough and tumble. hehe |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 5560
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 1:58 am: | |
Rhymeswithrawk,
That's right. CRIME HAPPENS EVERYWHERE! Not just in Detroit but in the suburbs as well. And I think that White flight from Detroit to the suburbs is going to be easier the Mayor Coleman Young's quote to tell crooks and hookers to hit 8 Mile Rd. and they did. |
Mike_from_gregory
Member
Username: Mike_from_gregory
Post Number: 2
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 2:51 am: | |
Paulmcall, I voted over 30 yrs ago and I believe I made the right choice. After people chose Coleman over law and order Sheriff Nichols the choice was simple....I lived in Dearborn Hgts for a while but the frontier kept beckoning... |
Janesback
Member
Username: Janesback
Post Number: 235
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 8:41 am: | |
13 years old and he was hanging out with a 19 year old at 3:00 a.m.? Wonder where the parents were when this took place? Jane |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 635
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 8:51 am: | |
Nice...I hear there's a lot of death in Iraq these days...why don't you lump that into the "evey place else but Detroit" category
(Message edited by thejesus on February 22, 2007) |
Rhymeswithrawk
Member
Username: Rhymeswithrawk
Post Number: 302
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 2:19 pm: | |
That's right. CRIME HAPPENS EVERYWHERE! Not just in Detroit but in the suburbs as well.
Danny,
You didn't read the first post on this thread.
I wrote: "Sorry, but I get sick of people who constantly point to this stuff and refuse to acknowledge that crime DOES happen everywhere."
And Thejesus, what the hell does Iraq have to do with anything? The point is you linked a story about another crime in Detroit. I linked to several crimes NOT in Detroit. I didn't think the point was that confusing, but somehow you missed it, apparently. |
Citylover
Member
Username: Citylover
Post Number: 2161
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 2:50 pm: | |
Rhymeswithhawk the point snd it has been made so many damn times is that the level of crime, the sheer number of crimes in Detroit is so much greater than in the suburbs that your point is...really no point at all. |
Rhymeswithrawk
Member
Username: Rhymeswithrawk
Post Number: 304
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 3:00 pm: | |
And my point is that every time someone like TheJesus posts a link to a crime in Detroit without at least encouraging discussion about it, anyone can reply with crime in the suburbs.
What's TheJesus' point of linking that story? Inciting fear? Anger? To be honest, if that was his or her intent, than really he or she really had no point at all either.
It's all been done before. And, frankly, I'm sick of it. Hence the point behind the original post. Aren't you suburbanites sick of it, too? It's like some pissing contest over who's safer or something.
By all means, discuss the rash of B&Es in Hubbard Farms or something that's news. My point, Citylover, is that random crimes are going to happen in both Detroit and suburbia. Period. And people should get over it, especially if they're not going to help do anything about it.
(Message edited by rhymeswithrawk on February 22, 2007) |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 639
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 3:02 pm: | |
Then I guess I missed your point, because the fact that crimes happen in places other than Detroit was never in dispute...if you think it was, then please show us where anyone ever claimed that crime only happens in Detroit...
Now if you're trying to claim that crime happens in Detroit at the same rate as most other places, but that the city just gets a bad rap, then you have three problems...
1. the crime RATE in Detroit is higher than most places...you may not like this fact, but you also have no way to dispute it...
#2-comparing the total number crimes that take place in Detroit to the total number of crimes that take place in other places is a skewed analysis. What you should be doing is comparing the crime RATES of Detroit to those other places, as it's the crime RATE that affect a city's reputation and peoples' desire to live there
#3-Lumping Detroit into one category and lumping every other place on Earth into another will also result in a skewed analysis, since the total number of crimes that occur every place else will always be higher than the total number of crimes that occur within one major city in America |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 640
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 3:05 pm: | |
No, my point of posting it was to adhere to the guidelines in your original post...
I thought about why I wasn't posting about something that happened in the suburbs before posting that article...mainly, it was because that was the article I happened to be reading at the time, and secondly because this is a DETROIT message board.... |
Rhymeswithrawk
Member
Username: Rhymeswithrawk
Post Number: 307
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 3:18 pm: | |
Now if you're trying to claim that crime happens in Detroit at the same rate as most other places, but that the city just gets a bad rap, then you have three problems...
I never made that claim.
I thought about why I wasn't posting about something that happened in the suburbs before posting that article...mainly, it was because that was the article I happened to be reading at the time, and secondly because this is a DETROIT message board....
So then why post it in this thread? If you wanted to start a discussion about this horrible crime, why not start a new thread? Seemed to me that you were looking to incite people.
And while this is a Detroit message board, it obviously is about metro Detroit. Feel free to expand outside of the city limits next time you want to link to a murder, that's all I'm saying.
Those of us "brave" or "dedicated enough" to live in the city are plenty aware that there is crime here. Trust us, we don't need suburbanites to tell us that. After all, we live here.
Note: I am NOT looking to pick a fight about this. I am not looking to draw a line between the Detroiters and all of the suburbanites. I guess I just wish some of those living in suburbia would have some pride in the city and stop tearing it down at every turn. It's bad enough that those of us who care about it have to defend it to the rest of the world. That whole "if you can't say something nice..." stuff.
That said, if something major like a serial murderer or whatever happens within our friendly confines, post away.
(Message edited by rhymeswithrawk on February 22, 2007) |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 641
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 4:07 pm: | |
"So then why post it in this thread? If you wanted to start a discussion about this horrible crime, why not start a new thread? Seemed to me that you were looking to incite people."
Nah, I was just protesting the overall lameness of your original post, while voicing my disagreement with it
"And while this is a Detroit message board, it obviously is about metro Detroit. Feel free to expand outside of the city limits next time you want to link to a murder, that's all I'm saying."
I do, and I have
"Those of us "brave" or "dedicated enough" to live in the city are plenty aware that there is crime here. Trust us, we don't need suburbanites to tell us that. After all, we live here."
You "brave" souls are not the only ones who frequent this board...if someone posts an article about Detroit, they posting it for the benefit of anyone who has an interest in the city of Detroit, as those of you who actually live inside the city limits are not the sole participants of this forum...
"Note: I am NOT looking to pick a fight about this. I am not looking to draw a line between the Detroiters and all of the suburbanites. I guess I just wish some of those living in suburbia would have some pride in the city and stop tearing it down at every turn. It's bad enough that those of us who care about it have to defend it to the rest of the world. That whole "if you can't say something nice..." stuff."
Has it ever occurred to you that those who have posted articles that happen to cast a negative light on the city have done so with a motive OTHER than to "tear the city down"? Discussing a problem is a helpful way to solve it...ignoring it doesn't do much good...and btw, you DO have an "us v. them" mentality when it comes to suburbanites...virtually everyone here is pro-Detroit, but whenever someone posts that they live in the 'burbs or if anyone posts anything positive about the 'burbs, many of you take it as an attack on the city...which is especially strange considering the fact that Detroit NEEDS suburbanites and their money in order to fix the city's ills...you need to welcome people and entice them to move to Detroit and come spend money downtown, not drive them away |
Rhymeswithrawk
Member
Username: Rhymeswithrawk
Post Number: 311
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 4:23 pm: | |
Discussing a problem is a helpful way to solve it...
But how is posting a link to a homicide story without offering any words of your own helping? The only comment the link posted was "nice."
you DO have an "us v. them" mentality when it comes to suburbanites...
Nah, I was raised in the suburbs. I don't have an "us vs. them" mentality when it comes to Detroit vs. the suburbs. I DO have an "us vs. them" mentality against the people who love Detroit and those who seek to tear it down all the time.
I think there's a big difference.
I don't hate suburbanites, but I do hate the haters who are suburbanites. By a similar token, if someone lived in Detroit and did nothing but bash the city, I would have similiar feelings toward them.
In the immortal words of Eric Burdon, "please don't let me be misunderstood." |
Bratt
Member
Username: Bratt
Post Number: 500
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 4:32 pm: | |
I truly wonder...if you take the crimes that are committed, how many of them are drug related. Whether the person is on drugs and is stealing, or a drive by shooting over drugs...etc.
Someone should do statistics on this. |
Citylover
Member
Username: Citylover
Post Number: 2163
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 5:02 pm: | |
Damn near all of them Bratt. Not neccesarily directly, that is a drive-by might not be over a specific drug debt it could be over some grudge from way back or it could be over turf. But more to the point almost all maybe even all persons in the penal system for your everday crime .......robbery, assault, murder, etc, etc, has a substance problem . |
C_p
Member
Username: C_p
Post Number: 11
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 5:06 pm: | |
Thank God you have the right to bear arms.
Handguns will solve all your problems (real quick) |
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