  Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 508 Registered: 06-2006 |
DETROIT (Reuters) - DaimlerChrysler AG's (DCXGn.DE) (NYSE:DCX - news) Chrysler Group plans to cut more than 10,000 factory jobs and close at least two plants to return the U.S-based unit to profitability, the Detroit News reported on Monday. http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200 70205/bs_nm/chrysler_cuts_dc | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 509 Registered: 06-2006 |
I wasn't aware there were even 10k jobs left to cut in the US... I'd be curious to see a line graph of the number of US autoworkers employed over the past 30 years...would be interesting to see | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 2379 Registered: 10-2004 |
DCX moved ahead of Ford (now in fourth place), and they still plan to cut excess capacity. Good for them. Guess making a profit is important... | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 510 Registered: 06-2006 |
oh yeah I can't fault them for doing what they need to do to compete...it's just seems like every month one of these auto companies is cutting thousands of jobs...just makes me wonder how many are left compared to how many there used to be | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 3595 Registered: 08-2004 |
LY, I'm starting to see that Royce is right... 10,000 jobs lost and you say "good for them". Maybe if you actually still LIVED here, you would be seeing that people and families (yes even children!!) will be profoundly affected, and that people here are hurting. Don't you have any empathy for these employees at all? (Message edited by Gistok on February 05, 2007) | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1336 Registered: 11-2003 |
They did state (in the Freep yesterday) a lot of those jobs cut would not be in this state, except possibly some white collar workers in Auburn Hills. It does not look like any MI plants are slated for closure. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 512 Registered: 06-2006 |
Gistok: You could look at it either way really...you could say some people in our area just lost their jobs, or you could say that one of our core local businesses just became more healthy and profitable... remember, if DCX doesn't make these difficult decisions and runs their business into the ground, then there will be NO ONE employed by DCX in this area or anywhere else... | ||
Cman710 Member Username: Cman710 Post Number: 239 Registered: 07-2006 |
That's an interesting question. I do not have the book with me, but I can get you some numbers if I get a chance (difficult because of my work schedule) from Thomas Sugrue's book, The Origins of Urban Crisis. He has a table with some of that information, at least from about 1940-1970. I am guessing numbers are available online somewhere (perhaps census.gov) for later years. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 2380 Registered: 10-2004 |
quote: quote: Sounds more like Gary's butt is continuing to do his thinking, err emoting... Since when is returning to making a profit, thereby staying in business longer in a world-wide competitive market considered bad or evil (using Danny's word here)??? You would obviously prefer that they eventually go bankrupt instead if they fail to make a profit, so it seems. | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 540 Registered: 12-2005 |
Thejesus asked, "it's just seems like every month one of these auto companies is cutting thousands of jobs...just makes me wonder how many are left compared to how many there used to be" Here is some data from the period of 1977-2003 on US automotive employment and production levels (source):   | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 845 Registered: 11-2003 |
Those graphs likely include Japanese factories as well, so they don't reflect accurately the decline in Big 3 / Big 2 employment. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 360 Registered: 04-2006 |
DaimlerChrysler is about as much of a U.S. automaker as Toyota... | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 541 Registered: 12-2005 |
quote: Huh? These graphs include the so-called "transplant" Japanese and European manufacturers with plants in the US as well as the so-called "Big 3" manufacturers with plants in the US. Therefore, it most certainly does include the decline in the so-called "Big 3" employment through 2003. I went to the BLS website but I was unable to find more recent and comparable data. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 847 Registered: 11-2003 |
Why was what I wrote so difficult to understand? My point is that the graphs would more accurately reflect the decline in Big 3 / Big 2 employment if they didn't include Japanese and European automaker numbers as well. I say "Big 3 / Big 2" because the graphs both represent the years when the Big 3 were all domestic, and the recent years when the only domestics have been the "Big 2," i.e., GM and Ford. | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 542 Registered: 12-2005 |
Maybe it would have been a lot easier to understand if you had just written, "by providing data from all automotive manufacturers in the US, it masks the employment decline at the Big 3/Big 2." Prior to this announcement of an additional 10K cut, D-C had already reduced employment levels by 40K since 2001. 35K are taking GM's buy outs, plus another 12.6K at Delphi. Ford has announced that 38K are taking their buy out offers. Add D-C's 10K announcement to the GM, Delphi and Ford buy outs and there will be a reduction of 95,600 Big 3/Big 2 hourly auto workers in about a two year period. This amounts to about a 33% reduction from a base of 284K Big 3/Big 2 workers in 2005. It also amounts to only about a 1% reduction when calculated from a base of all US auto mfg. employment. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 149 Registered: 12-2006 |
I find it interesting that all of the manufacturing jobs created by auto firms other than the big two-and-a-half are outside Michigan, at least so far as I can tell. Should we be learning something from that phenomenon? I wonder. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 2390 Registered: 10-2004 |
The current jobs multiplier keyed to UAW assembly plants taking the Tiers into consideration was reported as being around 8 last week by a security analyst/economist when interviewed on WJR. That means every assembly job lost will have a sevenfold effect among the Tiers. Most people never ever heard of most of those jobs lost from those large or tiny plants the past decade or so. BTW, Ohio, due to its centralized location among the various auto plants, is big in Tier capacity and gets hurt big-time when there are assembly cutbacks in production. | ||
Bobj Member Username: Bobj Post Number: 1701 Registered: 11-2003 |
I got laid off from a Chrysler PLant in 1979 when they almost went bankrupt, best thing that ever happened to me. I went back to college and have career that I am a 1000X happier with. It was tough at first, but I am glad it happened! | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 9189 Registered: 10-2003 |
Since we have so many teachers and many more people with teaching degrees, maybe we should layoff many of them since they really aren't giving us a better bang for our buck. How's that Ltorivia? (Message edited by GOAT on February 05, 2007) | ||
Trainman Member Username: Trainman Post Number: 328 Registered: 04-2006 |
We could support a regional mass transit tax and regional authority, then more jobs will come to southeast Michigan and we could hire laid off auto workers to drive public buses. This idea is not a fantasy but instead is TRUe. | ||
Kahnman Member Username: Kahnman Post Number: 26 Registered: 02-2006 |
...scratch...scratch...scratch . Anyone else hear a broken record? | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 5483 Registered: 02-2004 |
At least the jobs at Daimler Chrysler here in Michigan won't be affected. YAY!!!!! | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1338 Registered: 11-2003 |
Teachers are being laid off. They have been for the past 6 years. It is getting to the point where the youngest teachers (and in a lot of cases the most up to date and willing to make changes to fix schools) a first to go. This leaves them two choices, go teach in a charter (poor pay and benefits, which forces many to go out of state), or go out of state to find a job. One thing that would help is if Granholm and the democrats would have passed, or reintroduce the bill allowing for outside bidding and districts to bid together for cost savings. The MEA killed that bills, but one thing most people do not know if that the other union (American Federation og Teachers) that represents some Michigan teachers was in favor of these bills because it would have allowed for cost savings for everyone without really hurting benefits (except a slightly higher co-pay, which most people agree is a reality in these tough times). But our state is going to be faced with a major teacher drain, especially if funding is cut to the levels they may be necessary to balance the budget. I hope Granholm will get some balls and stand up to the MEA since she is not going for reelection again, and allow this health care bill to go through. It will not hurt teachers as much as the MEA said, iot only stops the MEA monopoly on health care so districts that are part of the MEA. | ||
Mjb3 Member Username: Mjb3 Post Number: 137 Registered: 11-2004 |
We'll know by the end of this week if Gov. Jen can stand up to MEA. Clinton took on the Unions when he backed NAFTA, she should do the right thing. UAW and MEA are only ones still living in early 1970s. Everyone else has adapted, but these 2 still march out their "struggle" dogma. I hope Granholm cuts teachers benefits(MESSA) to a comprable private sector level. Let's see what happens. CoPays, convert def. benefit to 401k, these alone would save the state couple hundred million. UAW already realizes what it has to do. I thought 2007 would be strike yr, but I think they will give Big 3 whatever they want(within reason). As far as "teacher drain," there are way too many teachers and their have been since the 1970s. Everyone likes summers off. If you cut the MEA "gravy train" back to reality, the supply and demand will even out the number of teachers. I laugh when I hear about these teachers leaving for "out of state." Sure, FL, NV and AZ are hiring but if you told MEA what they are paying em, they would laugh. MI, CT, Mass., and a handful of others are the last states that still pay teachers "Canada" wages. | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1340 Registered: 11-2003 |
The teachers get summers off thing is the biggest untruth there ever is. Teachers have to continually attend workshops, get advanced degrees, etc, just to stay certified. And all of this is paid for out of the teachers pockets. Yes, most get a raise when they get the masters degree, but it does not make up what they had to pay to get the degree. Unless you teach in a charter or private school, then you get very little raise to none for a degree you are required to get. As far as what states like FL, NV, and AZ are paying teachers, this is why they are having such a hard time filling teaching positions in these states, it is not worth it for many teachers. Move to Florida and make $28,000 a year. But remember cost of living is higher. Move to Alabama and have a job, pay little to no taxes, but deal with some of the worst pay and teaching situations in the country. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 2408 Registered: 10-2004 |
Bob, attorneys, nurses, doctors, engineers--just about all professionals do far more continual retraining (professional development) than what any teacher ever needs to do. Much of the retraining you refer to are those simple-minded nonsense courses imposed by the various state and national mandates for teachers that don't amount to much of anything anyway. The criteria for being an NCLB 'qualified' teacher are ridiculously low in academics. Mostly, participation is the primary basis for passing them, including those at Masters level. And the teachers' masters are much the same--BS curricula in useless, most-often failed teaching methodologies taught or mandated by educrats. WSU only requires a 2.5 overall undergrad GPA for admission into its MIT program. That 2.5 GPA today would have only been a 'D' back before 1960. But a 'C+' HS student is the typical teacher candidate the past two decades. Not good considering that a 'B' is now equivalent to a 'C' of yesteryears. It's no coincidence that the SAT scores from teacher candidates are typically clustered in the bottom 25 percent of all the students currently attending college. (Message edited by LivernoisYard on February 06, 2007) | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1342 Registered: 11-2003 |
OK LY, let's say screw all the teachers and see where our state is in 20 years. Not any better than it is now. Since you see teaching as such an unimportant profession, how do you suggest we fix our state? Non-educated people who have low skills and are unemployable? I heard a speech by John Glenn last fall in which he talked about teaching as being the profession is which teachers are underpaid and underappreciated, and nothing could be far from the truth. If our state and country has a prayer of competing with the jobs of the future, it is in a trained workforce. But if we continue on our current path, and the profession of teaching is taken as a unimportant profession, then we are doomed as a nation and state to being left behind. NCLB is a start at fixing things, but the problem is that every state is left to come up with their own standards and policing themselves. Michigan has been a very proactive state with policing itself and now with the new high school graduation requirements is taking a step towards training for the jobs of the future. And the masters degrees you thing and useless are now being policed by the state department of ed and are beginning to be held to standards and having their stats published. If their fail to make the grade they will lose their ability to grant degree and grant teaching certificates. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 2410 Registered: 10-2004 |
quote: Bob, our current crop of teachers are screwing us right now. Do you really think that it could get much worse in twenty more years? | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1343 Registered: 11-2003 |
And how are our current crop of teachers screwing us right now? And please do not use Detroit Public Schools as your example, because they are one messed up district compared to the rest rest in the state. (Message edited by bob on February 06, 2007) | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 2411 Registered: 10-2004 |
Bob's being in the forest is somehow too close to notice the trees... I reckon you believe because you personally don't teach at DPS gives you a pass. This is rhetorical and not really addressed at you personally, though. It's too easy to dump the causation of Michigan's low-education reputation and standing onto DPS. Teachers today are not like the teachers in the past. Today's teachers are much more highly paid, much less trained and competent, and the results of their inadequacy are in the taste of the pudding, for all to see if they care too. Why not see if you can reach into your pocket (or eat one fewer jumbo burger) and purchase a used copy of Martin L. Gross's book--The Conspiracy of Ignorance: The Failure of American Public Schools? This book is an easy read, and you might see similarities in it with your own experiences. It's easier than my rehashing those points time and time again. If you were to register for a free Amazon.com account, you could even read random one-page selections from the book and after some time you could read the entire book (cheapskate approach). But this book is sometimes available from Amazon for less than $2 used, but unfortunately today it would run about twice that. | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1345 Registered: 11-2003 |
I will read that book. I do not agree with your idea that teachers today are much less-trained. That simply is not true. You also have to admit that students today are not like the students of the past. For that matter, families today are not like the families of the past. Times change, and education needs to change with it. I will not disagree with you on that, but you seem to put all the blame of teachers (and no, I in fact do not eat much fast food at all, so no jumbo burger here), but I did just put down my reading for my master class (a book called "Breaking Ranks II Strategies for Leading High School Reform," to answer your post. Everyone agrees that public schools need to be fixed, it is just the approach that we all disagree on. Thank you for suggesting that book, I will order it right now, looks to be interesting and may give me some insight on where you are coming from. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 2412 Registered: 10-2004 |
I'd give you mine, but a K-5 principal borrowed it years ago and forgot to return it, and I never brought it up. | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1346 Registered: 11-2003 |
$8.47 including shipping LY. I ordered it on my Amazon.com account I already had. Shocking as it is, I do a lot of reading, including books with opinions that may be opposite of my own. I even read Dick DeVos's book just to get more of an idea of his beliefs. It would not hurt you to do the same. | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1347 Registered: 11-2003 |
No biggie...I look forward to reading it. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 2413 Registered: 10-2004 |
I should have told you that Amazon usually has free shipping on orders over $25. Maybe you could piggy-back another book or whatever else onto it so that it's over $25. A couple years ago, I picked up a hardcover CMoS (Chicago Manual of Style) for $22 instead of its usually discounted $30 or so. So, I also got a hardcover MW Collegiate dictionary at a deep discount in order to get it over $25. Together, they ran near $35, with no S&H. Don't get buyer's remorse, but I just checked that a used hardcover is available for $3.98 including shipping from Amazon. I had the hardcover version when it was newly released. (Message edited by LivernoisYard on February 06, 2007) | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1348 Registered: 11-2003 |
Yeah, I know, but I just wanted that book today. | ||
Trainman Member Username: Trainman Post Number: 329 Registered: 04-2006 |
Scratch, Scratch. There are those out there that actually believe that the only fix for Michigan are MORE TAX INCREASES. The transit advocates are working hard for the fourth transit tax increase since 1995. We get less and pay more. We get more promises and we lose more jobs as a direct result. Jobs are leaving because of high taxes. So, why not raise them more? Why bother to fix the city of Detroit, when we can just raise taxes and hire more incompetent government workers? That's why it's important for Christians to vote. | ||
Nyburgher Member Username: Nyburgher Post Number: 26 Registered: 10-2006 |
The numbers don't look that bad. There is still an auto industry. What we are seeing is a new industry with a lot of non union plants that is likely to employ tons of people in the U.S. They are however not likely to set up shop in Michigan. | ||
Ordinary Member Username: Ordinary Post Number: 119 Registered: 06-2006 |
The article attached to the first post looked more like conjecture and rumor than actual fact. |
