  Metaldoctor Member Username: Metaldoctor Post Number: 1 Registered: 01-2007 |
Can someone explain to me how a 100yrs of our city's priceless architectural ornamental metalwork is disappearing from our historical landmarks?...Only a few remaining treasures survived unrecognized, overlooked, and neglected for many years. Forgotten are the beauty, craftsmanship, and sophistication brought forth by metal artist (such as Samuel Yellin, Edward F. Caldwell, Marshall Frederick, John Massey Rhind, and Oscar Bach). Just to name a few: The Hulbert Memorial Park, Old Wayne County Courthouse, and our city’s mascot Spirit of Detroit are all in dyer need of restoration. If can be explain a. how could it be taught today and b. who could provide expert craftsmanship to restore and rebuild our great American heritage? Looking for historical pictures...... | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 4481 Registered: 10-2003 |
Take a breath, many of us are on your side. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 3403 Registered: 08-2004 |
OK, now I'm confused? The Hurlburt Memorial Gate is currently being restored (with lots of scaffolding). The Wayne County Building has been restored, including the bronzes on top (IIRC). And the Spirit of Detroit doesn't appear to be in any imminent need of repair, it's just has a nice green patina. So how is it that you are so sure they are in peril?? | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 3840 Registered: 10-2003 |
Samuel did some work in Detroit. I know he worked on the Cranbrook House and he did some work for the Fred Fisher mansion in Arden Park. He considered himself a blacksmith first. He was possibly the greatest America has ever known. Too bad some hood rat doesn’t know the difference between scrap and American history. | ||
Downtown_dave Member Username: Downtown_dave Post Number: 115 Registered: 07-2005 |
Confused also. Wasn't it quite recently that many of the city's bronze works (Soldiers and Sailors Monument, Grand Circus monuments and Lincoln statue at the Skillman Library branch, for example) were restored and repatinaed? It seems like Detroit was ahead of the curve in the protection of these metal works... Now, what blacksmithing work is being scrapped or neglected? Details? | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 6113 Registered: 10-2003 |
Uhhh, No. You don't protect and restore bronzes with black paint. | ||
Metaldoctor Member Username: Metaldoctor Post Number: 2 Registered: 01-2007 |
     .............this is just the tip of the ice berg! http://www.canarthandworks.com/index_files/Michigan_Landmarks.htm more pictures to come!!!! | ||
Metaldoctor Member Username: Metaldoctor Post Number: 3 Registered: 01-2007 |
http://www.canarthandworks.com where is the gate that once stood at the Hulbert Memorial WaterWorks Park the only thing remains are the brackets of the great gates....        ....more pictures coming soon! (Message edited by metaldoctor on January 04, 2007) (Message edited by metaldoctor on January 04, 2007) | ||
Metaldoctor Member Username: Metaldoctor Post Number: 4 Registered: 01-2007 |
  Can anyone tell me what these are? | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 3846 Registered: 10-2003 |
I want to k now what happened to the ornate door and lights that Leonard Willeke designed for the Edsel Ford estate on the Detroit river. From what I heard, some douche just had them rusting away in his back yard. | ||
Metaldoctor Member Username: Metaldoctor Post Number: 5 Registered: 01-2007 |
I would like to hear more info about those Leonard Willeke lamps.  part 1 | ||
Metaldoctor Member Username: Metaldoctor Post Number: 6 Registered: 01-2007 |
part 2  | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1352 Registered: 04-2005 |
Welcome to the forum Metaldoctor, I think that bringing attention to the condition of the Spirit of Detroit is a good plan. Many of us do not know what to look for, pointing out these failures will help. We all need to be aware of the required maintenance these items need. (now if only that damm fist would rust away)  | ||
Metaldoctor Member Username: Metaldoctor Post Number: 7 Registered: 01-2007 |
part 3  | ||
Metaldoctor Member Username: Metaldoctor Post Number: 8 Registered: 01-2007 |
 part 4 | ||
Metaldoctor Member Username: Metaldoctor Post Number: 9 Registered: 01-2007 |
 part 5 | ||
Metaldoctor Member Username: Metaldoctor Post Number: 10 Registered: 01-2007 |
 part 7 | ||
Metaldoctor Member Username: Metaldoctor Post Number: 11 Registered: 01-2007 |
part 8  | ||
Dhugger Member Username: Dhugger Post Number: 170 Registered: 03-2005 |
I appreciate the attention to Detroit's metal art heritage. Once again this forum is educating me. Thank you MetalDoctor. | ||
Erobtheone Member Username: Erobtheone Post Number: 44 Registered: 08-2005 |
Metaldoctor - where is the masonic iron work gate located? That is really a nice piece. Erob | ||
Metaldoctor Member Username: Metaldoctor Post Number: 12 Registered: 01-2007 |
the gate is located eastern market area , chene and gratiot. (Message edited by metaldoctor on January 06, 2007) | ||
Metaldoctor Member Username: Metaldoctor Post Number: 13 Registered: 01-2007 |
Can the city handle a gate like this?   or are we only left with this     thank God, somebody knows something about it. http://www.cranbrookart.edu/museum/forgers.html | ||
Metaldoctor Member Username: Metaldoctor Post Number: 14 Registered: 01-2007 |
To long neglected !!! http://www.canarthandworks.com/index_files/Michigan_Cemeteries.htm    | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 3512 Registered: 10-2003 |
Metaldoctor, the website you quote is that of Carl Nielbock who is an outstanding ornamental metal work craftsman. His studio is in the eastern market area. I met him once at the Russell Street Deli. He is originally German, as I recall, and may have learned some of his craft there. Check out the gate he built at: http://www.canarthandworks.com /index_files/CAN_Art_Historica l_Entrance_Gate_2.htm. Be sure to see finished image at bottom, but allow time for page to come in. [It appears the web designer squeezed the images down in a web program rather then downsizing the file size. As a result the images file sizes are huge and download slowed.] Great pictures and comments. Thanks and welcome to the forum. | ||
Michmeister Member Username: Michmeister Post Number: 48 Registered: 10-2006 |
It isn`t too clear to see, do the gates get dunked into the galvanic bath, rust and all or do they get sandblasted or some other kind of rust removal first? Gorgeous work of proud craftsmen, bourne of a time where everything wasn`t intended to be disposable three years later but for the ages. | ||
Tarkus Member Username: Tarkus Post Number: 205 Registered: 04-2006 |
Metaldoctor-- the top picture is the symbol for Masons. I do recognize the 2nd picture | ||
Metaldoctor Member Username: Metaldoctor Post Number: 18 Registered: 01-2007 |
CAN YOU SEE ME     DOES THIS SEEM RIGHT? THESE WERE TAKEN IN THE FALL, DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE NOW? | ||
Metaldoctor Member Username: Metaldoctor Post Number: 22 Registered: 01-2007 |
My good friend & Legendary Sculptor Edward Chesney who still lives and works among us, knows all the secrets of the craft!! http://www.venturesmith.com/ch esney/chesney.htm | ||
Metaldoctor Member Username: Metaldoctor Post Number: 25 Registered: 01-2007 |
Here is some information on the Martin Luther King sculpture. I'm sad to say the entire park has been neglected, all light fixtures has been stolen, the benches broken and worst of all the sculpture of Martin Luther King is heavily damage. Pictures coming soon! http://detroit1701.org/MLKBust .htm | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 11131 Registered: 10-2003 |
Metaldoctor, Was that you on Fox 2 tonight? I saw the piece on the Spirit of Detroit, figured it had to be you during the interview. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1602 Registered: 06-2004 |
Does anyone know anything about the bridge on Belle Isle that goes north from near the casino (Central) that's closed? Is it closed for structural reasons? | ||
Metaldoctor Member Username: Metaldoctor Post Number: 29 Registered: 01-2007 |
http://www.shareholder.com/bid /downloads/news/20061006-21383 7.pdf How many countless treasures like this overlooked and forgotten in Detroit? | ||
Metaldoctor Member Username: Metaldoctor Post Number: 36 Registered: 01-2007 |
even sbc is an offender if nothing is done very soon these two will be disappear.        the old charm is gone and a priceless treasure lost.  | ||
Metaldoctor Member Username: Metaldoctor Post Number: 41 Registered: 01-2007 |
These could be saved by applying following standards: http://w3.gsa.gov/__852565c500543eb4.nsf?OpenDatabase http://w3.gsa.gov/web/p/HPTP.NSF/Preventive%20Maintenance%20Procedures?OpenView And re-installed within any new & restored structure     | ||
Metaldoctor Member Username: Metaldoctor Post Number: 46 Registered: 01-2007 |
Public Alert! Please spend a little time to do something in regards to prevent the demising of my trade. It is of international interest "world heritage" The original craftsman brought there skills and trades, craftsmanship develop for over hundreds of years. Freed from their tight constraints by their guild in the old world the available resources the automobile and other industries provided lead to these unique and priceless treasures for everyone to read the language of the craftsman by creating jewelry for architects like Albert Khan buildings and structures.               There is much more!!!! | ||
Metaldoctor Member Username: Metaldoctor Post Number: 50 Registered: 01-2007 |
In 2002 metal-doctor studied the historical vintage and art-deco light-poles, and presented a solution to restore them to their original condition…………on this particular street three hundred irreplaceable art-deco lights-poles cast out of the finest iron are replaced with wooden poles much like the ones you would find in rural areas. Goes to show you how much we value our historic art work! Fact: The quality of the original light-poles can not be replace     | ||
Metaldoctor Member Username: Metaldoctor Post Number: 53 Registered: 01-2007 |
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap_tra vel/travel_trip_mobile_ironwor k | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 3539 Registered: 08-2004 |
Am I the only one suffering from "metal fatigue"? Metal Doctor, so far you are mainly "preaching to the choir". People are asking you questions, and you are not answering them! (Message edited by Gistok on January 30, 2007) | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 1455 Registered: 12-2005 |
Great pictures though. It might help track the progress of the corrosion if dates were added to the pictures. I suppose the date of the posts might serve that purpose somewhat. | ||
Me2007 Member Username: Me2007 Post Number: 1 Registered: 01-2007 |
I never thought of street light as being beautiful. Look beyond the corrosion and they are amazing. Restoring them could be a new way of beautifying the city | ||
Metaldoctor Member Username: Metaldoctor Post Number: 60 Registered: 01-2007 |
Metaldoctor surveyed missing lids and exposed wiring in 2002.     The cause of failure is galvanic reaction by using dissimilar metal in the original fabrication Land post assembly cast iron Lock claps copper Locks brass assembly Also like to offer a solution 1. Introduce surface mount hinges out of neutral metal. 2. Using gravity to automatically hold the lid in closed position 3. Modify the lock accordingly     The protective caps are flimsy and fastened by a regular corroding steel screw one by one they will disappear exposing the main anchor screws already starting the corrosion process by attacking the poorly protected cut marks on the anchors.   how long will they last.  This is how the street lights on one of the main streets of New York looks.  We have so few of the light structures that represent this level of craftsmanship they are usually the only street light left that is not made of wood or processed steel.    These can be restored to there former glory.  Only a suggestion for restoration 1. Remove all furan object strip all paint and primers 2. Disassemble all parts of the pole. 3. Craft new molds from the original parts 4. Craft new matching patterns to receive modern requirements instead using the old metal strap!!!( the duck tape of Detroit public lighting) 5. Cast new parts in the original metal. 6. Coating and finishing to national standards 7. Proper assemble by the original method got any question metaldoctor eager to answer. | ||
Metaldoctor Member Username: Metaldoctor Post Number: 62 Registered: 01-2007 |
BY THE WAY. LETS END THESE STREET LIGHT PLASTIC COVERS!    How can this beautify the city? (Message edited by Metaldoctor on February 02, 2007) | ||
Kahnman Member Username: Kahnman Post Number: 27 Registered: 02-2006 |
Hmm...has Metaldoctor met Trainman yet? That would make for some fascinating dialog. | ||
Metaldoctor Member Username: Metaldoctor Post Number: 71 Registered: 01-2007 |
I don’t believe I have had the opportunity to meet Trainman. I am also very surprise by the lack of interest regarding this work, I sometimes wonder if I’m better off working in the salvage business? | ||
Metaldoctor Member Username: Metaldoctor Post Number: 77 Registered: 01-2007 |
Words to live by........ Quote Samuel Yellin: Ladies and Gentlemen: It is a great pleasure for me to be here and to have the opportunity of speaking to you and with you on the subject of "Design and Craftsmanship" and in particular about the noble material "wrought iron." I hope you will accept what I have to say in the right spirit and if I do put some things before you rather strongly, nevertheless they are very true, and I am prepared to prove the facts. It is unfortunate that the real nature of craftsmanship, the use of materials in a way appropriate to their nature - for ends to which they are well adapted - is little understood today. To begin with, let us ask ourselves this question: "What is craftsmanship?" Is it to make work by inventive and tricky methods in original designs that will make the public marvel at the workman's cleverness because they cannot see how it was done? Or is craftsmanship working out good designs in the proper material and in the honest way? I think it is of the utmost importance for architects and art lovers who are the teachers of art in general, to insist and demand proper designs for the various materials and see that they are correctly executed. This is the only way the arts can be worthy of their names. I and that the public is becoming more and more interested in good work in various lines of art. If a man is truly an artist, he must impose on an unwilling public standards of perfection to which it is not accustomed. If architects are really interested in obtaining the best decorative metalwork (which I call the salt and pepper of architecture), it will be necessary for them to change their methods of procuring same. The most important thing to do is to make the question of bids and competition as the least essential, and thereby eliminate the writing of unnecessary and useless specifications. Very often architects tell me that they have to do this because their clients insist. But this is where the architect must perform his real duty and cultivate the client's mind and eye so that he will learn to be discriminating and appreciative of beauty. Thereby he will learn to accept the better work, even though the cost might be greater, or the designs will have to be simplified to meet the set allowance. I have proven this to many architects in connection with my work, and I feel that others can do likewise. Sometimes architects spend a good deal of time and money in making models in clay for ironwork. Iron cannot be modeled in clay and it would be much better and safer to spend that amount of money on the actual work. Metalwork can only be suggested on paper, but the actual life, character and beauty depends upon its making. The very best way of working is to make sketches in the actual iron on the anvil and let them serve as the inspiration and character of the work contemplated. Then the drawing can be made. This is the method I use and it has always been satisfactory. Besides it not only gives me exercise, but also puts blisters on my hands. There is only one way to make good decorative ironwork and that is with the hammer at the anviI, for in the heat of creation and under the spell of the hammer, the whole conception of a composition is often transformed. The relations between architects and craftsmen should be much closer than they are at present. But I do feel that it is the architect who can make them so. He can always be sure of a welcome to the craftsman's shop. Visit his shop and watch the different stages and methods in the production of decorative metal work. Work with him and learn from him. Gain a greater interest in the work he is doing. Very often I am asked by architects how work should be specified. I always tell them, "Specify that work should be done in the best possible manner." There is no other form of specification that the true craftsman understands. It has been said to me that all my workers must be artists, but many are no different from other ironworkers, at least when they first come to my shop. But I always insist that all the work which leaves my shop should be honestly and beautifully executed. It is most important that a piece of work shall be harmonious from every point of view. I mean that, besides being a part of its surroundings, it must harmonize within itself. I am a staunch advocate of tradition in the matter of design. I think that we should follow the lead of the past masters and seek our inspiration from their wonderful work. They saw the poetry and rhythm of iron. Out of it they made masterpieces not for a day or an hour but for the ages. We should go back to them for our ideas in craftsmanship, to their simplicity and truthfulness. The superficial and the tricky, which are spreading over the world of art like a disease, doom themselves to destruction. The beautiful can never die. Throughout my life I have been striving to teach people the love of beautiful things. There is no reason why people in the United States should fancy that we cannot do beautiful things here, because we can. Only America has been used to accepting the superficial, that the workers turn it out in bulk. Let us remember that "a thing of beauty is a joy forever." I hope to have the time and pleasure of coming here again to discuss the question of beautiful things which are one of the most essential things today, and which help to make life much more interesting. | ||
Metaldoctor Member Username: Metaldoctor Post Number: 87 Registered: 01-2007 |
Please note that I did not intend to discredit, downgrade or embarrass anyone, I love Detroit and my heritage and I feel that if I don’t that the art and craftsmanship would lost forever, therefore prompting me to post pictures and text of the problems that I see. Architectural ornamental metal work is my lifetime conviction and I stand ready for twenty years to make Detroit a better place. Again my most sincere apologies to anyone I have offended. Sincerely, The Metal-Doctor | ||
Metaldoctor Member Username: Metaldoctor Post Number: 91 Registered: 01-2007 |
I guarantee an eye-opening experience when you are able to locate these following ornaments on some of Detroit’s most prominent buildings. Location Tip: Fox Theater exterior door and façade Fisher building façade entrance above the window Detroit Athletic Club canopy After you located them would you please describe your feelings and opinions. The greatest designs, in the smallest details equals a great Detroit city that was once everywhere. Fox Theater, Griffin and crown molding assembly:  Fox Theater, Griffin Close-up:  Fox Theater, Crown molding and crown repetitive pattern:  Fox Theater, Center ornament door push-bar:  Detroit Athletic Club, Canopy crown:  Masonic Temple, Single grill ornaments:   Fisher Building, Facade entrance & window crown ornament:   |
