  Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 924 Registered: 10-2003 |
A fine opportunity to introduce caning into our local law enforcement efforts. http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll /frontpage | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 1387 Registered: 06-2006 |
agreed...I have reservations against the death penalty, but I'm all for cruel and unusual punishment! | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 583 Registered: 10-2003 |
WTF. That's it, I'm not having kids. There's no point, in 10 years we'll all be stabbing each other for the hell of it. | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 92 Registered: 10-2006 |
Reason #456,213 why the Pointes are in decline relative to Oakland County. The D factor. This crap happens in the Pointes and Harper Woods quite frequently. It could happen in Bloomfield or Bham, but not likely | ||
Higgs1634 Member Username: Higgs1634 Post Number: 105 Registered: 10-2005 |
crawford. seriously? you've got to be joking. | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 93 Registered: 10-2006 |
Yes, I'm serious. I think the Pointes are a terrible investment compared to other metro equivalents. The school district is on the cusp of white flight (GP North already has some white flight, South remains excellent and won't experience flight for a couple more years), most neighborhoods are within walking distance of some of Detroit's worst neighborhoods and there are very few shops, restaurants and services relative to Oakland County. The Pointes are also not particularly friendly to non-WASPs in the rich parts and non-Italians in the middle-class parts. The Pointes are only convenient to downtown. They are inconvenient to all the other job centers. I think GP Shores will always be rich and beautiful, but GP Park, and areas along Mack in the Woods and Farms already show initial signs of decline. It happened in beautiful parts of NW Detroit; it can happen along Mack. I think the rise of the Woodward corridor also contributes to the decline of the Pointes. Previously, Birmingham was the only walkable "rich" area. Now Royal Oak, Huntington Woods and even Ferndale are attracting moneyed young folks in search of a walkable, historic environment. When I was growing up in the 80's and early 90's, Royal Oak was considered stagnant, with vacanies on Main Street and a declining school system. Now Royal Oak is pricier per square foot than the Pointes, with the same homes and trees, but a much better location and variety of services. | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 4545 Registered: 10-2003 |
Royal Oak has the same homes as GP? Dude, lay off the pipe. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 9465 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hah, Royal Oak is stagnant, with vacancies on Main Street...and this time Washington is no-man's land. The odd storefront out is the one occupied! It looks like the CBD, circa 1983, without the wig stores. OK, plus the 'self' help smoking cure, and minus most of the crack. The Grosse Pointes will be just fine. They didn't jump to the next best thing when interest rates dropped. There was no-where for them to go. | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 94 Registered: 10-2006 |
Wrong, Patrick, Royal Oak has more expensive homes than GP (on a per square foot basis, of course). Do an apples-to-apples comparison of a bungalow off Mack and a bungalow off 11 Mile. Of course there is nothing in Royal Oak like Lake Shore Drive; I am only comparing like properties on a per-square-foot basis. Royal Oak and Huntington Woods have some pretty fancy neighborhoods. Ever driven Vinsetta in R.O.? | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1737 Registered: 11-2003 |
Is Crawford engaging in e-blockbusting? Some of those points about the Pointes are true, but probably the last thing metro Detroiters need is further encouragement to flight. ("Get out while you still can!") | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 95 Registered: 10-2006 |
No, stay in the Pointes! I hope I'm wrong; I fully support the Pointes, which remain beautiful and desirable. I just think they have been knocked down a notch, and that certain parts of the Pointes (Mack and GPP) need intervention NOW. Just giving my two cents. | ||
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill Post Number: 257 Registered: 09-2006 |
The Pointes have dealt with Detroits problems for decades, it has not deterred them, infact, with the Detroit city core itself more viable, some people I know moved there rather than farther up Woodward. One thing I have noticed is GPers seem very city connected, probably because it is there close proximity and many of the long time citizens have a genuine interest in the city. I often can't say the same about certain areas of Oakland County who often are very anti-Detroit. Comparing the Royal Oak area to GP is not apples to apples. Different housing/Different attitudes. | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 1120 Registered: 12-2006 |
"...that certain parts of the Pointes (Mack and GPP) need intervention NOW." At least where I am, there is no problem with the area along Mack. There will always be a few houses that stick out like sore thumbs, but overall, most here are in really good shape. My block had 3 of the worst houses around. 1 had a lawn full of ivy, it was a 20 year old storage facility. Someone down my block bought it and is now fixing it up. Another got fixed up a while ago. The third is still there, but is looking better than it used to. I can't speak for the whole area, but at least most of my part looks just fine. And by saying GPP, what do you mean? Parts are fine, parts are ok. What areas are you specifically referring to? | ||
Conman Member Username: Conman Post Number: 21 Registered: 06-2006 |
Sorry Crawford, your wrong, this happens no more offen in the Pointes then in Oakland County or anywhere else. The carjackers are looking for a target, and it just so happens that there are a lot of elderly folks in the pointes and harper woods. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4527 Registered: 08-2004 |
Crawford, put that crack pipe down! What the hell are you talking about?? You obviously don't live in the Grosse Pointes, now do you? Your generalizations are exactly that. The 911 police response time in the Grosse Pointes is something like 3 minutes... that's 180 seconds. You will get pulled over in the Pointes if one of your head or tail car lights is not functioning... and get ticketed. Grosse Pointers feel safe, and for good reason. They have probably the best police protection anywhere. You can drive down Maryland or Wayburn, the 2 closest streets to Detroit in GPP, and guess what... no missing houses... NONE!! Go 2 blocks over into Detroit, and you're lucky to find 2 houses still standing in the same block. And just drive along Mack Avenue and point out one abandoned business building? Guess what buddy there's ZERO. And there's LOTS of restaurants... LOTS!! And retail... just wait until the Mack/Moross development (7 acre parcel) starts in a few years, boy will you be shocked!! And just because part of the Grosse Pointe School District is in Harper Woods (where more African-Americans have been moving in lately), you somehow equate this to white flight in the Grosse Pointe North area... DUH! Not so! So unless you're a realtor who has the scoop on both the Pointes and Oakland County, you're just making things up. Property values in the Pointes have soared just like everywhere else. Granted lately the economy has hurt them region wide. And maybe you should take a drive down Mack Ave. sometime and look at all the new developments ALONG THE DETROIT SIDE of Mack. Everytime I look, a new retail establishment is going up. I just saw a brand new building going up between the CVS and Mr. C's Car Wash... wow! What a nice building! But to suggest that the proximity to Detroit is hurting the Grosse Pointes is silly. Yes it is a challenge for the Grosse Pointes to keep out the riff-raff and crime, but they are not losing the battle. So don't use your scare tactics with this one incident... (Message edited by Gistok on June 12, 2007) | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 1121 Registered: 12-2006 |
"You will get pulled over in the Pointes if one of your head or tail car lights is not functioning... and get ticketed." I can attest to that. That happened to a car I was riding in about 6 years ago. Made for an interesting trip down Lakeshore... | ||
Mbr Member Username: Mbr Post Number: 192 Registered: 03-2005 |
Seriously, Crawford is whack. | ||
1953 Member Username: 1953 Post Number: 1407 Registered: 12-2004 |
The Pointes are great. I am thinking about buying a home there next year, if and/or when I get married (and get a second income to support a mortgage with!). Who wants to live in suburban Oakland County? Yuck. | ||
Conman Member Username: Conman Post Number: 22 Registered: 06-2006 |
I've lived on Wayburn for 10 years and share an alley with Detroit, I can tell you first hand that I feel safe in my neighborhood, sure there are concerns but I no plans on moving anytime soon. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 584 Registered: 10-2003 |
"Hah, Royal Oak is stagnant, with vacancies on Main Street...and this time Washington is no-man's land. The odd storefront out is the one occupied! It looks like the CBD, circa 1983, without the wig stores. OK, plus the 'self' help smoking cure, and minus most of the crack. " Hmm, there aren't that many vacant storefronts. Certainly not "the odd storefront out is the one occupied." Quite a bit of an exaggeration there. Also, vacancies in Royal Oak are typically due to the high price of rent, not a lack of desire to locate there. | ||
Futurecity Member Username: Futurecity Post Number: 554 Registered: 05-2005 |
Good point about police response in Grosse Pointe. Nowhere in the metro area does it compare. Which is why GP's crime rate is always amongst the lowest in the metro area. Can't say that about Birmingham though. Sounds like crime there has been off the hook: http://www.clickondetroit.com/ news/10973895/detail.html | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2929 Registered: 02-2005 |
Don't talk out of your ass...take it from someone who's lived there and has family there (around the corner from where the carjacking happened): the 'D FACTOR' has always, always been there in GP. That's just how it is. The level of crime fluctuates based on how desperate people are, and how occupied the local Detroit youth are (these kids were definitly not occupied and possibly kind of desperate), but GP-ers with any backbone and any bit of circumspectness will not be fleeing because of some crime, because they haven't already. GP will not ever lose to Oakland County because they cannot be compared. Parts of GP have housing stock similar to Ferndale, true, but even these areas are on a different plane because of the schools, parks, and lake. You mention the white flight in the GP North district; well it's true that they are now officially "scared whities" because of the increase in diversity in GP Woods and Harper Woods, but the people who leave will leave because they are truly more of a Macomb County mindset, and they will either be replaced by upwardly mobile minorities or open-minded whites. If the southern Pointes become blacker (I won't say more diverse because I maintain that they are already diverse based on the range of incomes that attend GP South--from rental flat dwellers to mansion dwellers--and the fact that there are many immigrants in western GP Park), I think there are plenty of reasons to believe that most people will not leave or even think about leaving. The neighborhoods are really too unique, and if some people leave, lowering home prices further, a new influx of people, capitalizing on the lower prices, will buy-in and stabilize the market. Already the signs of weakness in the real estate market are being corrected, in my estimation. The mansions will take a while to move, but I've been seeing a lot of 'sold' signs. As for intervention, I don't know what you can do. GP has top notch policing, which can hardly be improved upon. Most of GP does not have any neighborhood watch program, though, there are few block associations (despite most people knowing their neighbors), and I notice that very few people in my former neighborhood have outdoor lights on at night...I suppose these are all areas that could be improved. You know some things about GP, Crawford, but not everything. I just want to clear some things up and share my opinion on its recent history. (Message edited by mackinaw on June 12, 2007) | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 1411 Registered: 03-2006 |
"You will get pulled over in the Pointes if one of your head or tail car lights is not functioning... and get ticketed." I was driving down mack last summer and my headlight was out and the cop just pulled up and told me. I lived off Mack for 3 years and that is one hell of an area all the way to Alter. Probably one of the best retail strips in the city | ||
Titancub Member Username: Titancub Post Number: 48 Registered: 08-2006 |
Bl Hills/B'Ham have the Pontiac factor (P factor?). I know of several neighborhoods just off of Telegraph in Bl Hills that are recently getting hit by break-ins leading to suspects up the road north. As for even entertaining that RO=Pointes is just nuts. | ||
Rrl Member Username: Rrl Post Number: 843 Registered: 12-2003 |
Don't forget about that ATM/car-jacking that happened in B'ham about 8 years ago. I don't remember the exact specifics, but it was a Doctor's wife or something along those lines, got jacked at an ATM and they schitt-bags ended up killing her. While this story is disheartening, it is an isolated incident and not a blanket statement that the pointes are unsafe. Trust me, the Pointe police make their presence known and will not allow this sort of thing to escalate. | ||
Jerome81 Member Username: Jerome81 Post Number: 1487 Registered: 11-2003 |
This is just an incident that happened to be in GP (can you really call Mack Ave GP??, it is GP one side and Detroit the other). Saying GP is in decline is nuts. Changing? yes. Less exclusive? Yes. But that's about it. I have family that has lived in GPP since before I was born (1981). They still live there and love it. I pay them a visit rather frequently. My GF's parents live on Barrington, first street from Detroit. There might have been some minor instances about 15 years ago, but otherwise I haven't heard from them about a single issue with break-ins, robberies, etc in the past 4 years of my knowing them. And their neighbors are incredibly friendly. You feel safe walking the streets, people say high, and it is a very relaxing place to take a stroll in any season. GP police are kinda a-holes, yeah. Looking for anything and everything and stopping anything suspicious. I have also heard first-hand some, what are probably but maybe not, racists policing. I'm not going to claim they're perfect. But what I can attest to is that when you call the magic number, they're on your doorstep before you can finish your street address. And they follow up and get the job done. It might be the most responsive police force I've ever encountered, and I currently live in Palo Alto, CA, another city where the police are known for their responsiveness. GP has them beat, no doubt. This is a shameful incident that just happened to happen on the first 1/2 block of GP (it wasn't past Moross on Mack, right?). But to say this place is going to be in a long-term decline or that it is time to get out is absolutely insane. I wouldn't hesitate for a second to live in GP if I were looking to do so, and I'd take it in a heartbeat over anywhere in oakland county. It is a gem. Always has been and probably always will be. Yeah it will change, yeah the giant houses may eventually go, but unless something changes in the schools, the public services, the sense of community, the policing, and the housing stock all at the same time, people will want to live there. It is sleepy though. Yeah it doesn't have awesome restaurants or shopping. But for people who don't mind, they love it. Harper Woods is changing a bit. Unfortunately I know a couple people who are already planning to "get out". Unfortunately people crumble easily, but you don't want to deal with crime or break ins, etc. Saddens me, but what you going to do? They have the right to live their life. But there are vast differences. Many of them are trying to live in GP. I have yet to run across any sort of "getting out" in the pointes. At least not for any neighborhood issues (jobs are another matter). | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 1122 Registered: 12-2006 |
"...but unless something changes in the schools..." That may happen sooner than you think. I'm glad I'm out in a couple of years. Trimesters = death for South and North. | ||
Jerome81 Member Username: Jerome81 Post Number: 1489 Registered: 11-2003 |
Huh? Why would trimesters mean death for schools? I was on quarters (4th quarter being "summer break" for most students) in college. Most others were trimesters (with 2 long semesters and a short 3rd being summer break). Didn't cause any problems for me. I actually liked it. Got in more classes in the same time and was out of the ones I didn't like more quickly. Why are trimesters going to kill the GP school system???? | ||
Chalu64 Member Username: Chalu64 Post Number: 208 Registered: 08-2005 |
I like Crawford's comment about non-Italians. Do you really believe that? Jerome81,not all of the GP Public Safety are A-holes. Most are exDetroit PD who just want a safer job. And although there are some very racist cops, most aren't. | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 1126 Registered: 12-2006 |
The school day would drop from 7 periods to 5 and class times would go from 49 min to 71 min. No one I know can pay attention that long, and there is no way to take most of the classes that we want. That's why there was such a firestorm around here that forced the district to kill the idea of trimesters for a couple of years. The rest of the system is fine though. | ||
Vas Member Username: Vas Post Number: 731 Registered: 01-2004 |
Those kid's parents need to be held accountable. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2936 Registered: 02-2005 |
I agree, Scs100, why should we mess with a good thing. Trying to be more "efficient" in the administration of an education usually is not the best thing for students. The small cost cutting has been going on for about 5-7 years now, but the fact is, all public schools are in decline, so GP still outshines them on a relative basis. The minute Proposal A goes away, by the way, GP schools could be toward the top in the country again. ---- Vas, I agree. Big time. | ||
Why Member Username: Why Post Number: 15 Registered: 04-2007 |
birth control. | ||
Harsensis Member Username: Harsensis Post Number: 299 Registered: 07-2005 |
Currently they have shot down the trimesters. The people who put their time into it were not happy, but right now the school board said no to trimesters. | ||
Bulletmagnet Member Username: Bulletmagnet Post Number: 616 Registered: 01-2007 |
I would call this episode PROOF that the suburbs are as bad or worse then Detroit when it comes to crime. I don’t know how those Grosse Pointers can put up with this kind of crime wave. Soon their crime will spill into Detroit and render THAT city uninhabitable. Then what? The whole state, and then the whole COUNTRY over run with GP crime? Wow. I'm just glad I don’t live there. But at least the rubbish gets picked up... | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2941 Registered: 02-2005 |
? Violent country...lots of guns...angry and unoccupied people in cities, suburbs, and the country. Crime = everywhere. | ||
Higgs1634 Member Username: Higgs1634 Post Number: 107 Registered: 10-2005 |
Bullet... I tried to move to 48 mile road once there was a murder in GP City a couple of years ago. I know it was the first one in 35 years and the perps were caught almost immediately...but I knew this was the end for the Pointes. Unfortunately, due to the rampant crime, poor services, horribly maintained parks, huge tax burden and schools that fail kids on a daily basis...no one will buy my house. Things are so bad in GP, I'm thinking of just walking away and letting the bank take it. | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 1783 Registered: 11-2003 |
LOL Higgs. You forgot to mention our sky-high water bills. | ||
Noggin Member Username: Noggin Post Number: 92 Registered: 09-2004 |
Believe it or not a couple of kids got robbed at their lemonade stand a couple of blocks out of Detroit in the Park. They caught the perps but I think it is time to increase the size of the border berm. | ||
Bulletmagnet Member Username: Bulletmagnet Post Number: 620 Registered: 01-2007 |
Higgs1634, I don't blame you one bit for moving away. After all, you have to think of the safety of the children. I know Harsensis still lives there, but he's always packing heat! (he won’t be far behind you, pal) | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2943 Registered: 02-2005 |
Just like the bike thefts that we were always warned about when I was going to school. No need to build walls. Just cope. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4532 Registered: 08-2004 |
Everyone forgot to put on their sarcasm "alert"... Geeze, at 48 Mile Road you have to start wearing socks with your Dockers, don't you? And I bet that there's no Fish Flies, no Yacht Club, and definitely no Debutante's Ball for the young ladies (unless it's called a Hoe Down)! | ||
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall Post Number: 178 Registered: 05-2004 |
The best thing to come out of this is that concerned Detroiters turned the losers in. They got involved and called the cops on them. Too bad it doesn't happen more often. The kids, by the way, came from Detroit. | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 96 Registered: 10-2006 |
I am NOT saying that the Pointes are going to turn into the East Side of Detroit. There will never be abandoned buildings or crack wars. My point is that the Pointes have issues that weren't present in the past and are bound to fester, especially if the regional economy fails to improve. The regional economy is a stagnant or shrinking pie, and wealth clusters overwhelmingly in Oakland County, where previously much of it was in the Pointes. The Pointes have more competition than ever, and Detroit's problems are now within spitting distance of its neighborhoods. As a long-term investment, there are serious issues for the border neighborhoods. | ||
Mbr Member Username: Mbr Post Number: 195 Registered: 03-2005 |
I think you are nuts. Grosse Pointe hasn't been the ultra-wealthy utopia everyone thinks it is since the 1960's. Since then it has maintained it's status and yet become a large and economically diverse community, albeit above average. What issues are bound to fester that it hasn't dealt with in the past? Grosse Pointe will survive and prosper because of 1. water, 2. good schools, 3. safe neighborhoods (despite this recent incident. Go to the Grosse Pointe News archives online and read some crime reports from the 1950's and 1960's. You will see armed robberies, some murders, carjackings, among others. You may have to search a bit but they are there. | ||
Harsensis Member Username: Harsensis Post Number: 300 Registered: 07-2005 |
GP is going through a bit of change, but most of the foreclosed houses are still sitting empty because the notes on them are so high, they will never get the money out of them. Bullet, I told you not to tell anyone I was packing heat! | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 1127 Registered: 12-2006 |
Crawford, here is a quick suggestion for you. Either move to or be reborn in Grosse Pointe. Stay here for about 20 years (give or take a few depending on preference). See what changes have come about after you have left. There, now you know the perspective and what I'm looking at every day. On another note, no bike thefts near me recently! "Currently they have shot down the trimesters. The people who put their time into it were not happy, but right now the school board said no to trimesters." Harsensis, I know they shot down trimesters (since I would have been screwed in terms of class selection if they had passed), but I don't think that there are many other options for them right now. And with Diver still as principal, I don't trust anything that they say is dead. He has a habit of doing very strange things. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5634 Registered: 10-2003 |
Crawford makes a very good point. I don't see The Pointes going to hell any time in the forseeable future, but I hardly think that is anyone's point. The point being made is one of caution and recognition of the Pointes position in today's economy. That point is that the Pointes were created as (or evolved into) a residential bedroom community that made sense because it was directly connected to Detroit and its economy. Like few other suburbs of today, Grosse Pointe completely existed to service Detroit. With the economy so incredibly decentralized (i.e. not Detroit-based), and jobs creation in the inner and middle ring stagnating, and booming in the outer ring meaning further commutes, and the population of today's America so incredibly mobile, much like Detroit, the Pointes make less and less sense everyday. Like few other suburbs, the Pointes are inextricably connected to the health of Detroit proper's economy. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4536 Registered: 08-2004 |
Well the Grosse Pointes are going thru the same problems as the rest of the metro area with the jobs situation. But the decline of the Grosse Poines is overly exaggerated. And how can you tell? Just drive down Kercheval, and notice all the new huge homes. What has been happening there in the last few years is the same thing that has been happening in Birmingham. People are tearing down nice 3,000 sq. ft. homes, and putting up 6-7,000 sq. ft. larger houses. Except in the Pointes they seem to have stricter enforcement. Because the new larger homes are architecturally pleasing to the eye, not shoehorned into a small lot, and not huge bigfoot boxes that appear out of place in the neighborhood, as has been happening all to often in Birmingham and environs. There at least a dozen tear downs in Grosse Pointe every year. Fortunately, unlike in the past 5 decades, the replacement houses have mainly been larger and more architecturally pleasing homes. The era of the subdividing huge estates is pretty much in the past, since there are only a few huge estates left. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2946 Registered: 02-2005 |
But Lmich, as more corporations locate downtown, and as law firms, accountants, and other services continue to exist there, the amount of commuters who might choose a place like GP should increase. Detroit proper's economy is getting better, is it not? We are talking about the same city, right? Gistok, the new home thing is very, very limited. I don't think it shows us too much. Grosse Pointe Farms has a ton of money and a handful of people interested in new, custom luxury homes. That's what you're noting. I don't think there have been any new homes constructed in the city of GP for several years. You can count the number of new ones in GPP in the last several years on one hand. The state of the existing housing stock is a more powerful indicator, and the fact of the matter is, all these old houses are still in really good shape. Mbr notes that it hasn't been a wealthy utopia since the 60s. Actually, it hasn't been since the early 20th century when GP became more than just lakefront mansions, and the 2000-4000 sq. ft. homes were systematically constructed away from the lake up towards Mack. Many areas have been solidly middle class since their inception. This whole talk is really beside of point of whether the Pointes are declining or not and whether they are safe or not. I really don't think there is much of a question on these points, though. | ||
Ahartz Member Username: Ahartz Post Number: 1 Registered: 04-2007 |
hey SCS100...your description of a ivy covered home that was bought by a guy down the street makes it sounds like you may reside on Univeristy, GP??? Great discussion on the Pointes.I grew up on fisher, 2 blocks from mack. We had lawn mowers and snow blowers go missing all the time. Petty stuff no one got to worried about. We never used to lock our doors, My ignition keys never left the ignition all through high school, I am a 1985 south grad. The recent cooling off of home prices will allow alot of people who previously thought GP was out of there reach to come over and take a look. If it leads to more young families, brown yellow red or white, thats a good thing. Go take a look at any home in any generic sub in Macomb Twp, NO THANKS....I have great neighbors and architecturally significant craftsman bungalow that could only be found in an older neighborhood. I also hunt and fish the lake from March to december. ....you couldnt pay me to live anywhere else...andy | ||
Harsensis Member Username: Harsensis Post Number: 302 Registered: 07-2005 |
Andy, I was going to guess 86 or 87, I was 88 and remember your name. Is your dad huge into hunting and fishing too? If he is, he bought some stuff from me on ebay a few years ago and picked it up from my house. I can't recall what he bought though, I just remember him talking about duck hunting at Harsens Island and he was interested in renting a place there for a week. SCS are you a student or a teacher? I thought you worked at the library. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 6042 Registered: 02-2004 |
Patrick, Crawford told his viewpoints correctly, Will all rich white folks who lived in the five Snobbyvilles. They will take continue to take pride of their communities even when it border to the crack, drug infested and little housing development of east side Detroit ghettohoods along Alter Rd. and Mack Ave. The five Snobbyvilles will experience some decline but not much with the good housing and retail stock still there. Most suburban cities are trying their best to creat a hip cool cities to create competition against Detroit and other suburbs. Some work, others failed. Downtown Royal Oak went from a just a mom and pop corner into a hip cool vibrant little metropolis and Ferndale is trying to catch up by proposing a expansion of their downtown from 16 to 24 blocks. So whatever the city you're living in, their is going to be people taking action to keep their communities clean and their Downtown beautiful. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5350 Registered: 11-2003 |
Gistok and The Rock, it is truth. At 48 Mile Road, that's 40 miles from Grosse Pointe, you ARE required to wear socks with hunting boots, Sperry Docksiders, and tasseled lawyer shoes. jjaba, Etiquette Meister in summertime. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5351 Registered: 11-2003 |
jjaba just confirmed with Buffy and Huntington (Rock's two chidren) that post #5350 is correct. jjaba. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5638 Registered: 10-2003 |
Mackinaw, I think you read me incorrectly. Again, I don't see the Pointes declining significantly for the forseeable future, but they are definitely less important than they once were, and that's not going to change for some time until we see a much, much healthier Detroit. The Pointes aren't in danger of anything unless you consider stagnation of established places a danger. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4538 Registered: 08-2004 |
Mackinaw, there have been a LOT of expansions/upgrades to houses in the Pointes besides tear downs/new constructions. Just look at the stretch of Lakeshore between Fisher and Vernier. At least a dozen homes have undergone major makeovers/expansions. And that's just the main street. I've also seen a lot of upgrades in the side streets of the Woods as well... mostly the dated 1950's stuff. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2950 Registered: 02-2005 |
I disagree. Lakeshore is not the main street, and since the majority of the lakefront mansions left us 1950-1980s, it's been a front for new construction for a long time. Sure there are expansions and even newer houses still coming along, but despite having the view and the name recognition, that is not the heart and soul of GP. The real epicenter of the extremely wealthy are the various estate districts in GP Farms like Beverly Rd., Kenwood St., Cloverly/Touraine/Vendome, and Windmill Pt. Drive. The many parallel streets in the City and Park are the heart and soul of GP, home to the thousands of upper middle class (these are the places that GP should be known for, to me). Additionally, GP is marked by neighborhoods accomodating thousands more middle class people in western GP Farms and the Woods, and of course there are the flats in GP Park. It is what all of THESE people are doing, the more down-to-earth folk off of Lakeshore, that we should pay attention. The Lakeshore crowd may be renovating their modern homes, but they are probably more concerned with how many months they'll be spending in Florida this year, and when their going to take the Yacht down to Bermuda. Their house is just a cash cow that they'll pass on to the next old, rich couple. As for the Woods, that's because those houses are mundane and, indeed, dated in a bad way. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4539 Registered: 08-2004 |
Mackinaw... you're preaching to the choir!  I said "the main street" not referring to it as Main Street, but in referring to it as a main street that has a lot of side streets (many of which you just named) where development has been going on as well. I am familiar with nearly every street between Wayburn near Alter and Brys near old 8 Mile, and I understand what you are talking about. But most of those more modest homes (those mainly north of Charlevoix) have little room for expansion anyway, are already extremely well maintained. As to the financial's of the occupants, like has already been stated, many of them are hurting as are folks all over metro Detroit. | ||
Exmotowner Member Username: Exmotowner Post Number: 312 Registered: 06-2005 |
"Now Royal Oak is pricier per square foot than the Pointes, with the same homes and trees, but a much better location and variety of services" Its them gay folks. Damn they move in to a city and look what happens. The city gets cleaned up, the houses and yards get a make over and the prices quadruple. Id sure keep them out of detroit! Dont want that happening right in the city! LOL It just blows my mind we were run out of Palmer park and the city of detroit!. Look whats happened to Ferndale!! Sure dont want that element in the D!. As for grosse pointes, nothing speaks louder than a drive from the ren cen to the pointes. Blight, blight blight, BAM! Mansion mansion mansion! Hell I'd leave the city to rob in the pointes for sure! Go where the cash is. Yea it could happen in Bloomfield, but the pointes are MUCH closer! | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2952 Registered: 02-2005 |
Indeed, Gistok. | ||
Southwestmap Member Username: Southwestmap Post Number: 843 Registered: 01-2005 |
Lmichigan, as to "decline in Grosse Pointe", I have picked up some panic among my Grosse Pointe friends. There is trouble in one of the HS's - I don't know which one. According to them, there is now a "Black Corridor" that only the black kids can use and a kid was recently beat up for using it. The grade schools have seen an influx of kids who may or may not be residents, and some are renters. At any rate, there is a growing racial tension that has a lot of people looking into private school options. Some friends are upside down on their houses and, while they have contemplated moving (because the schools are everything to them) they can't in this economy. But they will leave as soon as they can if racial issues persist in the schools and teaching suffers. As to district residency, wasn't there a push to investigate and vet every child in the district recently? I don't know what happened there. | ||
Willmess01 Member Username: Willmess01 Post Number: 20 Registered: 02-2007 |
Ah... Grosse Pointe: Sorry to hijack this post, but I'd like to add my 2 cents to the GP policing efforts. It started out as I was driving down Mack in my 99 Seville with tinted windows. Sure enough lights and sires start blaring. I pull over and am asked for my license and registration which I produce. Then I ask the obvious question "Why did I get pulled over?" To which the response was, unbelievably, "Because behind that tint I can't tell if your WHITE OR BLACK or red or yellow" The asshole then went on to write me a ticket for NOT HAVING REGISTRATION-THE SAME REGISTRATION THAT I ALREADY PRODUCED, stating "because you are who you are I don't want to give you a money ticket, just show up with the registration and you'll be all set" I sat there dumbfounded! The idiot in me for principal never paid the ticket then my license went suspended, so I had no choice but to go pay and get my license reinstated. Anytime someone mentions the Pointes I always share this story to let everyone know how they seem to operate, or at least some of the one's that are hired to "Protect and Serve" | ||
Higgs1634 Member Username: Higgs1634 Post Number: 108 Registered: 10-2005 |
That is why I'm heading as far into Macomb County as possible. The racial tension here is so thick you can cut it with a knife. We're one incident away from our own '67. I'm prepared to make sacrifices in the move.. I've bought socks, and I'm growing a mullet. | ||
Dream Member Username: Dream Post Number: 163 Registered: 10-2003 |
There is no question that the decline of the manufacturing sector has substantially impacted the metro Detroit real estate market, including Grosse Pointe. GP homes selling for significantly less then their purchase price 1-4 years ago are now the norm rather then the rare exception. By way of example 130 Kenwood, GPF (the Luther David Thomas (Gladys Riggs) House, Architect - J. Ivan Dise, Jr. English Tudor, 7 bedrooms, 5.2 baths). Now selling for $1.450m, sold for $1.850m in 2003. I must confess that I am oftentimes overly optimistic, but I truly believe that Detroit and the entire metro area will rebound and that home values will increase steadily within the next 5 years. Even in this difficult economy, the Detroit side of Mack Avenue, including near Alter Road is seeing significant development. By way of example are the new retail at both corners of Mack & Alter as well as the new million dollar design studio/residence being constructed at Beaconsfield and Mack. | ||
Noggin Member Username: Noggin Post Number: 93 Registered: 09-2004 |
Here is the full story: On Saturday, June 9 at 2:11 pm two 13 year old males and one 12 year old youth at the corner of Korte and Pemberton and took $17 from the victim [ the victim was a child running a lemonade stand]. The victim supplied police with a descriptions of the suspects and the three were located. The suspects were taken the station and the TOT Youth Supervision Unit Officer. From what I found out was when one of the guardians were telephoned the response were the words, "f*** you" and hung up. In the name of racial harmony I guess it is alright to attack our children. | ||
Burningwheel Member Username: Burningwheel Post Number: 3 Registered: 06-2007 |
*shakes head* *shakes head again* here is the direct link: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=200770612026 | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2958 Registered: 02-2005 |
Good post, Dream. Good to hear from you. SWmap, that is GP North. People in that area also initiated the residency check uproar a couple years ago, because they couldn't believe that so many African-Americans were moving in. I think people don't understand the simple fact that there is tons of affordable housing in GP Woods and Harper Woods, and this sets up well for increasing diversity. It's just the way it is, but people don't want to believe it. | ||
Futurecity Member Username: Futurecity Post Number: 563 Registered: 05-2005 |
I had the misfortune of having to live in Macomb County for a number of years. And it sucked. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5352 Registered: 11-2003 |
Higg1634, HOF post. Congratulations. You made us all laugh. Add the following to your list: Waders. Irrigation hip boots. Hunting rifle. Fishing license. Ordering chipbeef and toast at the local cafe. Cube steaks and Wal-mart hot dogs for the grill. Store-brand pop. Never have to see a dentist again. Runny nose kids everywhere. Basketball hoops in street. Buy a 1970s Ford pick-up. 2 hr. commutes to see a ballgame downtown. jjaba. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2960 Registered: 02-2005 |
...park the 1970s Ford pick up on the front lawn. lol Jjaba. | ||
Futurecity Member Username: Futurecity Post Number: 564 Registered: 05-2005 |
Higg, You should buy one of those 2800 square ft McPulte homes off 26 mile road. When gas hits $5 bucks next year, you can resell it for firewood. | ||
Higgs1634 Member Username: Higgs1634 Post Number: 109 Registered: 10-2005 |
I already have one picked out. it's on a cul de sac. I have to make 12 turns after getting off of 48 mile. Twice I screwed up the directions the realtor gave me and ended up in a house that looked exactly like the one I was looking for. Nice family lived there though. They straightened me out. It's all good though, the more maze-like subdivision and the more the houses are identically beige, the better. Being from GP, I hate diversity. I would love to actually make the move, but alas, as I said and as everyone has pointed out, GP is falling apart so fast I can't get anyone to even come look at my current home. guess I'm stuck here. I need to get a gun and some dogs. | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 1128 Registered: 12-2006 |
"SCS are you a student or a teacher? I thought you worked at the library." Sorry for the late response, I had to work. I am a student at South who also works at the library. Would've responded earlier, but I had finals as well. "hey SCS100...your description of a ivy covered home that was bought by a guy down the street makes it sounds like you may reside on Univeristy, GP???" If I read your description of the whole post correctly, you actually know me. | ||
Mbr Member Username: Mbr Post Number: 201 Registered: 03-2005 |
Teens who carjacked two seniors in Grosse Pointe to be charged as adults: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20070615/NEW S01/70615033 | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2992 Registered: 02-2005 |
Good to hear, thanks for the link. I thought the first story said it was three women? It also didn't mention that they were Canadian. I'm sure they have good impressions of America now, let alone GP and Detroit. | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 1787 Registered: 11-2003 |
$250,000 cash bond. You find yourselves guests of the taxpayers until the next court hearing. Welcome to GP guys. Fortunately, the Wayne County prosecutor treats crime as crime no matter where in the county it occurs. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5355 Registered: 11-2003 |
Higg1634, jjaba found a nice place for you next door to Terry Nichols' old place. They know all the guys in the Aryan Resistance and the KKK. Life could be a lot worse than Grosse Pointe as you'll find out. Yes, save water, park the 1970 Ford pick-up on the lawn when washing out the manure bed. Have a Thumb-dandy good time. jjaba, Westsider. | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 4553 Registered: 10-2003 |
Eh, I thought Korte was blocked off? | ||
Bulletmagnet Member Username: Bulletmagnet Post Number: 644 Registered: 01-2007 |
Ahartz, welcome to DY. I love GP, too. I have worked there for almost 28 years. Most of your crime there is imported from the neighbors to the west. (Message edited by Bulletmagnet on June 15, 2007) | ||
Waxx Member Username: Waxx Post Number: 205 Registered: 09-2006 |
I hope they throw the book at them little bastards (angry black man talkin' here!). Has anyone forgotten that it is a FEDERAL OFFENSE here in the state of Michigan to carjack people. You'd think since the recent (attempted) carjackings-one of them was foiled by a 50ish man who snuffed that little punk out [I ain't mad at him either]-these kids would think A THIRD TIME before doing something rash that could (mess) up their future. I know this much though, with these two in GP custody, Jackson Prison is waitin' 4 some fresh meat (lol), the Pointes DON'T PLAY! What impressed me the most was that both Detroit and GP constables worked together in bringing these two to justice (from my observation). And another thing, as much as I love the Pointes, I REFUSE 2 GIVE THE GP PIGS THE SATISFACTION OF GIVING ME A (FRIGGIN') TICKET OVER SOME (NONSENSE)! Case in point: These events that happened to me are somewhat similar to what Willmess01 went through 1st time: I was on my way to Kroger on Marter Rd. in St. Clair Shores and I was already pushing it as far getting there on time was concerned-I worked there part-time-and I was doing the speed limit and I had my seat belt on. I was pulled over for having one of my headlights out-OF ALL THINGS WHY THIS?!?-so needless to say I was ticketed and late for work. the constable informs me that if I fix the headlight within a reasonable amount of days and prove that the light(s) worked, the ticket would be dropped and I'd have to pay $5 for court charges or some (crap) like that. So to sum that up I did all that and my record remains clean for awhile anyways..... 2nd time: I was in GPP (my favourite GP 'burb) and I admit I was going over the speed limit and I wasn't really in a hurry but I got burned anyway. WHITTIER (@ JEFFERSON) IS A SPEED TRAP 24 HOURS A DAY FOLKS! So the officer tells me to go to their courthouse which is at the City border and let them know that it was a moving violation the price of the ticket was going to be slashed-yeah right-so I go there thinking I was going to seal the deal with maybe $60-70. I paid $120.00 over this (nonsense)! I was gonna fight it, but that would've meant a court date and I didn't feel like going through all these hoops. So I paid it and swore like a sailor under my breath and took the painful loss with the notion that I could've spent that money on something else. I could've bitched about it, but it didn't affect my insurance, thankfully. So to this day I look out for ANY police vehicle that tails me, if my signals don't work, I use hand signals-there is one I wish I could use (take a wild guess, folks)-just to keep the fuzz of my (butt). Could've been worse, though. At least I wasn't pulled over for DWB. Higgs 1634, You hate diversity?!? Shame on you. We ALL got to live together here on this earth! I happen 2 LOVE diversity. I've seen more positives in it than negatives. I can vouch 4 that after staying in Clinton Twp. for 10 months. I've been a lover of the Pointes since the 80s. If I stayed out in Oakland Co., I'd STILL pay a visit. But that's just me. (Message edited by waxx on June 16, 2007) | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 2421 Registered: 07-2004 |
Fight what? You were speeding by your own admission.The cop according to you even explained to you how you could reduce the penalty_ nah, you come off like the shitbirds one sees all day every day in traffic court ..." Let me tell you what happened for real judge"... | ||
Waxx Member Username: Waxx Post Number: 208 Registered: 09-2006 |
LMAO, citylover. My insurance wasn't affected so I ain't bitchin' no more. Believe me, I'd rather lose $120.00 in court over a one-time incident than lose that same amount of money on insurance ANYDAY! So it's water under the bridge, as it were. I'm just a little more observant and careful when I'm on the road. Believe it or not, I very seldom get tickets. when I was in my late teens, early twenties, I was getting them RELIGIOUSLY! like every month or something, but now once a year, if I'm not paying attention, (unexpectedly) I'll get slapped with one. I just tell the judge the truth instead of "let me tell you what happened for real judge...." I'm still laughin' my (butt) off with that one! | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1746 Registered: 11-2003 |
Slightly off-topic, but speaking of streets in GP, I heard through the GP grapevine today that GP Park was planning on converting the westernmost several blocks of Kercheval into a one-way westbound street with diagonal parking. Apparently it was offered for approval at the last GPP council meeting, but was tabled for some reason. The Kercheval businessman I talked to said most of the Kercheval businesses were strongly opposed to it, but the council was trying to quietly ram it through. It sounded like the motive was to increase parking. Anyway, anyone with an interest in not seeing the walkable GPP Kercheval business district screwed up may want to attend the next council meeting. | ||
Noggin Member Username: Noggin Post Number: 95 Registered: 09-2004 |
Korte is blocked for cars but the sidewalk is still open. Guess we need to work on that. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2997 Registered: 02-2005 |
Dougw, that's interesting. I don't think it would really be helpful, and if the businesses are against it, it definitly shouldn't happen. In the the case of Vernor and Charlevoix, both are two-way up til Alter, and then of course they each become one-way west of there. | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 580 Registered: 07-2004 |
I think people get way to worried about nothing to be honest. Crime happens anywhere. Is a car jacking sad and scary, yes. But its not like one is happening everyday. Things happen, and it can happen anywhere. I don't get this whole idea that because of a crime you have to move. Work to make the community safer, not flee. Anyway I really don't think the car jacking is a big deal. Like I said, it can happen anywhere. About GP. If people want to flee and sell those houses for cheap, I am sure many middle class people would buy them in a shot. To be honest, anyone who would flee GP has to have their head examined, because it is one of the nicest old style suburbs I have ever seen. And nothing in Oakland County can compete with the lake views, etc of the GP's. I also tend to observe that the GP's are more pro Detroit and not as scared of the city as other places. So I think the people that live there already know Detroit more then other suburbanites and probably support the city more then others. Anyway just my views. But lets stop pushing the panic buttons. Metro Detroit is a big city. Sometimes crap happens anywhere in the Metro area. Does not mean a place is going down the drain or that people need to leave. No matter if it is GP, Birmingham, or Royal Oak, everyone has the ADT alarms on their homes Why? Because rich areas will always have people interested in robbing them. Here are the family incomes for some of Detroit's rich suburbs. As you can see, GP does just fine. Not that having a high income means a place is good. Sometimes its not good to have un area so undiverse income wise. But anyway the stats. GROSSE POINTE PARK-Boarding Detroit City The median income for a family was $104,267. GROSSE POINTE SHORES Median income for a family was $139,680 BLOOMFIELD HILLS The median income for a household in the city was $170,790. BIRMINGHAM The median income for a family was $110,627. (Message edited by miketoronto on June 16, 2007) | ||
Waxx Member Username: Waxx Post Number: 211 Registered: 09-2006 |
Nice figures, Miketoronto. (Message edited by waxx on June 17, 2007) | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2999 Registered: 02-2005 |
Bear in mind that you posted the numbers for the city of Bloomfield hills, the very small old money district right near Woodward. Bloomfield Twp. and W. Bloomfield are considerably less. GP Park's number is impressive because it tells us alot about it's range. It has several streets with working class families in rental flats, where I would guess the family income is probably under 60k/year, so it has vast sections of families making 150-200k+ a year in the large areas of larger homes to bring this average up. It is always interesting when all these people converge in the schools (GP South especially), together with some very rich people from GPC and GPF too, and you have to come to the realization that extreme wealth and prepiness is not neccesarily the norm, and you have to reconcile how many GP-ers see their hometown with the reality that it is actually a pretty diverse place, at least socioeconomically. |
