Discuss Detroit » Archives - Beginning January 2007 » What happend to the plans for a cable car « Previous Next »
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French777
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Username: French777

Post Number: 168
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 6:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

wasn't there plans to build a cable car across the river. Is it because of new security issues.
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Pam
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Username: Pam

Post Number: 1574
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 7:35 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

wasn't there plans to build a cable car across the river



Might have been somebody's idea on here, but I don't think it was ever planned for real.
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Dialh4hipster
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Username: Dialh4hipster

Post Number: 2065
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 7:39 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Au contraire!

http://www.freedomgondola.com/
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 1019
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 8:18 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought that this idea was more of a joke, but these people seem pretty serious.
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Mikeg
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Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 856
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 8:20 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This idea goes back to the mid-1960's when a similar plan was floated but never materialized.

Looking at that web site, it appears that not much has happened lately. My guess is that border security has become a major obstacle in addition to getting the necessary piece of prime real estate required for each of the terminals.
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Rampartstreetnorth
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Username: Rampartstreetnorth

Post Number: 49
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 8:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A similar gondola system was built across the Mississippi River for the New Orleans World's Fair in 1984. It tended to get stuck and leave passengers dangling in the air for hours at a time, although I understand that when that happened it gave a great view (and occasionally a strong whiff) of the smokestacks of ships passing by beneath.

Once when I rode it there were a bunch of drunks on board who thought it would be funny to make the car swing back and forth crazily by swaying from one side to the other in unison. Fortunately...it turned out that it was possible to actually slide the door open a few inches in mid flight, possibly to facilitate a backup (no pun intended) bathroom system for those times it got stuck. This created at least the possibility in the drunks' minds that if they continued their rowdy behavior the rest of the passengers were going to throw them overboard, so they quit.

But all that was in Louisiana, so of course nothing like that could happen here.

(Message edited by rampartstreetnorth on May 17, 2007)

(Message edited by rampartstreetnorth on May 17, 2007)
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Rb336
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Username: Rb336

Post Number: 61
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 8:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

my guess is the whole "must have a passport" idea will kill this.
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Pete
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Username: Pete

Post Number: 68
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 9:10 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Rampartstreetnorth, the infrastructure that these guys bought for this system are from the New Orleans World's Fair. Mainly the piers, I believe. The cars were all going to be new. They had a scale model and an example of a full size car on display in the Renaissance Center a couple of years ago.

The main obstacle was NOT security. Initially, it was the lottery commissioner of Ontario who controlled casino owned land that was needed for a station. Then, after nothing happened for awhile, George Jackson and the DEGC said they weren't going to back the idea.

By the way, this had to be one of my favorite Detroit crackpot ideas of all-time. I wish it came to fruition.
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Rampartstreetnorth
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Username: Rampartstreetnorth

Post Number: 50
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 9:30 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

After my experience in New Orleans, my thought is that if there isn't a very good reason to ride a gondola (like a lazy way of getting to the top of a very steep mountain) then better not to do it.
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Rfban
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Username: Rfban

Post Number: 76
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 9:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I always thought it would be nice for pedestrians to be able to get to canada though.
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Rampartstreetnorth
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Username: Rampartstreetnorth

Post Number: 51
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 9:50 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That would turn Canada into just another pedestrian experience.

Rfban wrote; "I always thought it would be nice for pedestrians to be able to get to canada though."
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 381
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 10:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pedestrians can go to Canada in two places in St. Clair County. There is a car ferry in Algonac and another in Marine City.

You have to consider, with regard to a gondola between Detroit and Windsor, that neither of the cities it would connect are particularly friendly places to be if you don't have a car.
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Ramcharger
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Username: Ramcharger

Post Number: 264
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 12:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

You have to consider, with regard to a gondola between Detroit and Windsor, that neither of the cities it would connect are particularly friendly places to be if you don't have a car.



That's likely to change when we start paying $10.00 a gallon for gas.
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 5324
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 12:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Long ago, jjaba invoked Skipper's Rules.
In Detroit, don't believe anything until you see it being built.

jjaba, Westsider.
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Paulmcall
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Username: Paulmcall

Post Number: 140
Registered: 05-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 12:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another example of another interesting idea that could make Detroit unique (in a good way) that dies by the wayside. A lot of talk and no action.
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Dougw
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Username: Dougw

Post Number: 1686
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 1:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

By the way, this had to be one of my favorite Detroit crackpot ideas of all-time. I wish it came to fruition.


But unlike most of the crackpot ideas discussed on this forum (turning Belle Isle into Cedar Point, ceding Belle Isle to Canada, etc), this idea is actually a good one.

quote:

You have to consider, with regard to a gondola between Detroit and Windsor, that neither of the cities it would connect are particularly friendly places to be if you don't have a car.


But that's the whole point, to encourage and foster pedestrian activity in both downtowns. The gondola could help that quite a bit, actually. I wouldn't say Windsor is all that pedestrian-unfriendly, either. Detroit still has a ways to go but its CBD is making progress in that direction.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 4332
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 3:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think that one of the reasons the idea died is that the Canadian terminus of the Gondola was going to be Casino Windsor. So Detroit Casino's probably lobbied Detroit city officials to oppose it.
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Apbest
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Username: Apbest

Post Number: 541
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 3:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

who said it died?
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 4334
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 3:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lets see the thread has most dates of 2000 and 2001, including quotes from Mayor Archer.

Let's see we're now in Kilpatrick's 2nd term... and still no Freedom Gondola!!

6 years and still no gondola?? I think it's died a quiet slow death...
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Rfban
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Username: Rfban

Post Number: 78
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 4:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I still think it would be great to be able to walk to Canada. It would make the region more of a destination.
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Rfban
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Username: Rfban

Post Number: 79
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 4:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh, it's Definitely dead.
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Upinottawa
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Username: Upinottawa

Post Number: 838
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 5:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Discussions of the gondola ultimately lead to discussions of a Detroit-Windsor passenger ferry. I could see a ferry replacing the tunnel bus -- especially during special events in downtown Detroit (there may need to be connecting bus shuttles to the JLA, Ford Field, Comerica, etc.).
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 5327
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 5:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Perish the thought of a crowd of teen-aged boys coming back to Detroit on the Gondola from Windsor titty bars. jjaba waits for the next departure.

jjaba on the Dexter bus.
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Eric
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Username: Eric

Post Number: 826
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 6:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

But unlike most of the crackpot ideas discussed on this forum (turning Belle Isle into Cedar Point, ceding Belle Isle to Canada, etc), this idea is actually a good one.



I disagree I think the support towers and wires would be a blight on Hart Plaza. IMO it's almost as bad as Ficano's idea to connect the RenCen to Cobo with a skywalk

quote:

But that's the whole point, to encourage and foster pedestrian activity in both downtowns. The gondola could help that quite a bit, actually. I wouldn't say Windsor is all that pedestrian-unfriendly, either. Detroit still has a ways to go but its CBD is making progress in that direction.



A pedestrian friendly connection is needed between the downtowns ,but I'd much rather see it done through a ferry. It'd make prefect usage of the Port Authority terminal better than waiting around for occasional cruise ship
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Russix
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Username: Russix

Post Number: 9
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 7:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the MART in New Orleans was demolished in 1994, sparing it from a fate of being demolished 11 years later. I remember seeing it and wondering why it wasn't working. The red steel brings reminders of old Washington Blvd/Trolley plaza and its practical solution for transit.
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Pam
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Username: Pam

Post Number: 1578
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 8:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I disagree I think the support towers and wires would be a blight on Hart Plaza.



Yeah, sounds like an eyesore to me too. A ferry is a good idea though.
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Ramcharger
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Username: Ramcharger

Post Number: 265
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 10:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

“I disagree I think the support towers and wires would be a blight on Hart Plaza”


Remember, the people of Paris thought the Eiffel Tower was a “blight on their city” when it was first built.

But seriously, I don’t much care for the design or location currently being proposed, but that doesn’t mean it’s a bad idea. Perhaps a tower could be built as part of the redevelopment of the Ford Auditorium site. That way they could use the existing tunnel customs plaza.
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 382
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 10:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is nothing currently being proposed, is there? If so, where is the information? There was something proposed seven or eight years ago but I doubt that is any longer being seriously considered.
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Ramcharger
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Username: Ramcharger

Post Number: 266
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 11:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In Detroit seven or eight years is current. They’ve been working on the Riverwalk for more than 30 years and there were numerous announcements and false starts associated with the Book/Cadillac project over the years. My point is that it’s not a bad idea. It just needs the details reworked.

(Message edited by Ramcharger on May 18, 2007)
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Upinottawa
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Username: Upinottawa

Post Number: 839
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 9:13 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If a gondola was to be developed, it would make sense to place the Detroit terminus near a peoplemover station so that people arriving from Windsor could hop on the peoplemover to get to sports events, etc. (during inclement weather).

I think there was a proposal to place the Windsor terminus on the top of the Chrysler Canada HQ parking garage.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5886
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 1:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We don't need a car car! Look at the national unsecurity issues first. Terrorists can plot to cut the cable car or blow it up.
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Ramcharger
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Username: Ramcharger

Post Number: 267
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 2:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why would terrorists waste their efforts and resources on something so insignificant? It sounds like you’ve been drinking the Bush Kool-Aid.

(Message edited by Ramcharger on May 18, 2007)
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Upinottawa
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Username: Upinottawa

Post Number: 841
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 3:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Danny has been accused of drinking various forms of Kool-Aid....
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 4339
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 5:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

... my bets are on a closed head injury...
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Dougw
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Username: Dougw

Post Number: 1696
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 6:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

"But unlike most of the crackpot ideas discussed on this forum (turning Belle Isle into Cedar Point, ceding Belle Isle to Canada, etc), this idea is actually a good one."

I disagree I think the support towers and wires would be a blight on Hart Plaza. IMO it's almost as bad as Ficano's idea to connect the RenCen to Cobo with a skywalk.


Eh. It'd be no more an eyesore than something like the Ambassador Bridge, IMO. The support tower is not nearly as tall as the RenCen and other buildings along Jefferson, so it wouldn't alter the skyline *that* much.

Yeah, the support cabling might not be that attractive but according to the picture, it would be on one side of Hart Plaza (the west side), so I don't think it would have a drastic impact. Contrast that with the Ficano skywalk cutting all the way across Hart Plaza and blocking the river view (for little benefit), which I agree would be a disaster.

My hunch is that the real reason the gondola probably won't happen is that the owner/promoter is underestimating or downplaying the costs of installation or operation, and the city is leery of getting stuck with the extra costs or with a half-finished project, which is entirely reasonable.
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Jyogi
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Username: Jyogi

Post Number: 1
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 6:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry but it wont happen.
My family along with a Attorney in Detroit, a Detroit City Planner and a couple other investors were going to open the "Detroit Windsor Ferry" We even had two docks and the barge but there were just too many expenses due to having customs on both sides of the border at both stations. This was pre 9-11 so if anything it would only be
harder now.

You are dealing with two cities, two countries and two customs offices, talk about headaches!!!!

It really is a shame as something like that would be nice to have but here in MI it would only get used a couple mths a year due to the weather then you also have the issue of height. They cables would have to be VERY high in order to not get in the way of any ships which come through (including the really old Tall Ships which they have the festival for yearly.)

I do still have quite a bit of the items we had made up which were going to be sold in the gift shop if anyone is looking for something unique...

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