  Navi Member Username: Navi Post Number: 1 Registered: 09-2005 |
Check it out: http://vids.myspace.com/index. cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual &videoid=2028859714 | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 4095 Registered: 10-2003 |
no pity... | ||
Mbr Member Username: Mbr Post Number: 147 Registered: 03-2005 |
They were security guards. Get the whole story first. http://blog.myspace.com/index. cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&frien dID=56671981&blogID=263985540& MyToken=9f2bc491-29df-4b5a-8d6 5-bde893c78319 | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 2285 Registered: 06-2004 |
Poor thing. Sometimes it just doesn't pay to go trespassing on private property. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 779 Registered: 04-2006 |
Yeah, I thought the security guard uniform was a dead giveaway... | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 1486 Registered: 11-2003 |
My goodness, that is one stupid girl... | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 4099 Registered: 10-2003 |
And then tried to play the damsel in distress in big bad Detroit... | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9167 Registered: 10-2003 |
Too bad the cops didn't charge her for trespassing after she showed them her footage of the incident. | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 4100 Registered: 10-2003 |
like I said....no pity... | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 1487 Registered: 11-2003 |
quote: So who was the other person in the pictures? Or did you bring a tripod? Or were you lying to the security guard? quote: You forgot how it ended...? And you're sure you weren't doing drugs in there? quote: Yes, because watching your piece of shit car that was torn up while you were trespassing is what DPD should really be focusing on. quote: Good. | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 4103 Registered: 10-2003 |
No Ex we already know where you stand so its a waste of time (and you may want to use a spell check before you post)... | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 894 Registered: 07-2004 |
Whoa, the flood of empathy on this thread has to stop! Don't forget, she was trespassing. As we all know, anybody who is trespassing in Detroit deserves such treatment. What's more important? Making sure our glorious ruins aren't photographed or visited, or that some individual in our city doesn't get their car wrecked by overzealous security personnel? | ||
Exmotowner Member Username: Exmotowner Post Number: 282 Registered: 06-2005 |
Stylin, bite me. And You can spell check my ass. Are you an english teacher? And I removed my post because I knew you would have something smart to say. Since someone doesnt agree with you they are automatically wrong! There did I spell that good enough for you? | ||
Mbr Member Username: Mbr Post Number: 148 Registered: 03-2005 |
I'm not convinced they fired a weapon either. In her blog she says she heard gunfire OR someone breaking her window. Seeing as how her window was broken it's pretty easy to conclude that's what the loud noise was. Exmotowner, you made a ridiculous statement above "Exactly why people don't want to be in the city". If she had parked her car in a real parking lot while visiting downtown you might have a point, but she wasn't, so you don't. This suburban girl is the definition of pure stupidity. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 2164 Registered: 06-2004 |
While I don't have sympathy for her, I would like to see the security guards for hire in the city stick to the law. They should have held her and pressed charges for trespassing. The last thing needed is any rogues wearing badges and playing authority. | ||
Exmotowner Member Username: Exmotowner Post Number: 283 Registered: 06-2005 |
You didnt hurt my feelings. Nobody can say anything that disagrees with you or you jump on them. You dont hurt my feelings you just bring back memories of why I left. | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 4105 Registered: 10-2003 |
What's that ex....many black people who you assume are waiting with baited breath to do something to poor poor you and no one else? | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 895 Registered: 07-2004 |
Actually, I've heard of this happening before. A friend was on Belle Isle after dark and had her tired punched by city employees. Nice. | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 1488 Registered: 11-2003 |
Please, there's a picture of this chick (who's 31 and should know better) in an abandoned building holding a crowbar. So it's okay for her to damage a building but it's not okay for someone to damage her car? Why hello karma, nice to see you today... | ||
Exmotowner Member Username: Exmotowner Post Number: 284 Registered: 06-2005 |
I didnt say a word about black people stylin. You a racist or something? Hmmm sure sounds like you have a special axe to grind. | ||
Cman710 Member Username: Cman710 Post Number: 303 Registered: 07-2006 |
Personally, I believe everyone out there has quite the jaded view. While this girl was trespassing, and rightfully could have been kicked out of the property, that does not legally give the guards the right to smash up her car. Give me a break. The guards should have waited for her, held her, and turned her over to be charged her for trespassing. They should not have ruined her car. | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 4107 Registered: 10-2003 |
Yeah Ex....i am a racist...*sigh* | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 2165 Registered: 06-2004 |
by rights she could drag the guards, their employer, and potentially the city, into court, both criminally and civilly if she got the right attorney | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 4108 Registered: 10-2003 |
And then she gets asked the question of her criminal trespassing... | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 780 Registered: 04-2006 |
Is the Packard Plant owned by the city? I'm not exactly convinced that she has the right to anything if her property was unlawfully on private (or city owned) property. Can someone in the know clarify? | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 617 Registered: 07-2005 |
quote: Are you certain that is a chick? Looks like some frumpy guy with nasty seersucker shorts and man-tits from my viewpoint. | ||
Exmotowner Member Username: Exmotowner Post Number: 285 Registered: 06-2005 |
Ya know guy you are awful quick to accuse someone else! *sigh* and she did have NO BUSINESS being up there and what kind of woman is going to go into a huge plant like that "By herself"? They still didnt have to bust up her car. They should have waited and arrested her. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 2166 Registered: 06-2004 |
two wrongs don't make a right - what they did was just as wrong and her trespass doesn't void charges she could bring, especially on the civil side | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 4111 Registered: 10-2003 |
She doesn't have the right to file suit for anything as she was illegal in what she was doing. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9170 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Not true. Our legal system allows people to file suit if they or their property were hurt during an illegal act. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me but it happens. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 103 Registered: 02-2007 |
Quote: She doesn't have the right to file suit for anything as she was illegal in what she was doing. You can sue anyone for anything. First hurdle, getting a lawyer to take the case, if you're paying up front, it's a go. There's a story floating around that is claimed to be true, documented etc. A family was on vacation and someone broke into their house. While pilfuring the personal belongings going from room to room, he walked through the kitchen and out into the garage. Gathering more things to steal, as he did, the door closed behind him and locked. He was trapped. Garage door was locked from the outside, entry to the house was locked, no windows. He ate dogfood for a week until the people returned home and found him near death. He sued the peoples homeowners insurance and won. | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 1298 Registered: 12-2005 |
People (criminals caught/injured in the act) have won HUGE settlements in the past. And their TV lawyer took at least 1/3 of that money. | ||
6nois Member Username: 6nois Post Number: 234 Registered: 11-2006 |
The whole thing is dumb. She wasn't wise for going there alone and yes she was breaking the law, but the security guards were out of line with there actions. Instead of doing taking the proper action they vandalized her car. A crime doesn't negate a crime. | ||
Janesback Member Username: Janesback Post Number: 332 Registered: 08-2006 |
Well, thats surely one way to get white people from photographing and exploring Detroit... Did Lowell get permission to photograph every single ruin and building that he has shots of? I thought when I read the first post that this would turn into a racial issue Wonder what people would have said if she were black and the guards were white? I can hear it now, Racist white guards, KKK memebers, Nazis attacking that poor students car.... and on and on....... You may not like hearing that, but you know its true........ Jane | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 1343 Registered: 01-2004 |
That is certainly not a window breaking, and the guy has walked far away from the car towards the other one. So you folks think people who have walked into wide open buildings should be shot ? Even Lowell? The owners of most of these places should be in jail. How the hell can you do monetary damage to a giant piece of garbage like Packard ?? As if any of it were worth money. It isnt exactly like breaking into a Woodbridge house thats for sale to steal copper. The woman was an idiot for parking her car on the grounds. The State of Michigan statute on criminal trespassing actually requires that the person who is on the property in question has damaged or demonstrated the intention to damage. Otherwise it is a civil infraction, and not punishable by vigilante homicide, folks. Had the woman possessed a legal firearm, she would be entitled defend herself with lethal force. (assuming she was fired on, which I say she was) | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9172 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Making a pretty broad assumption aren't we? As I see it tresspassing is tresspassing and I have no sympathy for this woman. I wish she would have been held and prosecuted but I certainly won't shed a tear for her. Same would go if she were black and the guards were white. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 970 Registered: 02-2006 |
Okay. They were wrong to vandalize her car and shoot at her, if that's what happened. *breathe* But holy shit. The balls on that woman, trapped on the roof of a building, yelling "shoot at me again, asshole" in one of the better parts of Detroit. Wow. I guess that pretty much personifies the "tough suburbanite" that gets mentioned on here a lot. Writing checks your ass can't cash, and all that. For once, I'm with ya on that. What was she thinking? LOL | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 781 Registered: 04-2006 |
That woman was not getting shot at and still standing in the window. | ||
6nois Member Username: 6nois Post Number: 237 Registered: 11-2006 |
I don't think she was getting shot at. I think that sound was her window being broken. | ||
Rjk Member Username: Rjk Post Number: 711 Registered: 11-2003 |
Well, that's another person that can be added to the list of the unemployed in this area. If you're a security guard and you're doing even slightly more than nothing you're overstepping your bounds. I worked as a SG the summer I got out of high school and most of the people I worked with were overzealous cop wannabes. A good number of them weren't playing with a full deck. | ||
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine Post Number: 1654 Registered: 05-2005 |
quote: i agree. | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 1344 Registered: 01-2004 |
Who broke the window if the man was so far away ? That aint what glass sounds like. I could be wrong, just opinion. Not defending everything she did either. Question still stands about Lowells past explorations.. Fisher Body Plant, St. Cyril ? You want crazy crackhead guards firing shots at our pal ? I just use him as common ground for balance, since we are all here and should all have some type of respect for him and his research. Shoot all the explorers and let god sort them out ? Vicious. | ||
Janesback Member Username: Janesback Post Number: 333 Registered: 08-2006 |
Mauser, when I saw the Tour Detroit Ruins section of this blog, I assumed that those were vacant buildings. I also assumed that who ever was taking the photos did not have permission or were escorted when they took them I dont validate her actions, I think she was wrong. I think she should have gotten permission and gone from there Did anyone of you really think the photographs that are posted were allowed by the owners of the buildings, apartments, stores, etc? Do you think the photographer wrote or went to the owners to seek permission? I didnt see any security guards or police escorting our resident photographer in any of his shots. Double standards . Again, she was wrong to do what sher did, but to do that to anyones car is cruel and evil. Jane | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 2288 Registered: 06-2004 |
Maybe I am wrong, but I do not think anybody is saying she deserved to get shot. I think what the feeling expressed was -- she was an idiot, and we have no sympathy. If she had been someplace buying crack, and her car got jacked, nobody would feel sorry for her. If Lowell or you or any of us who have spent time in buildings parked our car in the parking lot of that building -- in broad daylight -- and it was vandalized, would there be pity? Of course not. Indignation? Certainly not. It is part of the assumption of risk that goes along with trespassing. Break into a building, run into some crackheadz or junkies, and you never know what might happen. But there is always a chance that SOMETHING could happen. Tough break for a clearly stupid, person. | ||
Raggedclaws Member Username: Raggedclaws Post Number: 26 Registered: 08-2006 |
Ummm...just finished perusing the MySpace page...could we stop referring to her as "girl"... | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 1345 Registered: 01-2004 |
RC - Hahaha ! Yeah, I hear ya dabirch | ||
Beatsworking Member Username: Beatsworking Post Number: 67 Registered: 08-2004 |
I agree with Mauser. At work I couldn't tell... but at home, with good speakers, it sounds like a gunshot. | ||
Sticks Member Username: Sticks Post Number: 307 Registered: 08-2005 |
Since when are rent-a-cops allowed to carry guns? And what the fuck was she doing talking to them? I woulda got in my car and got the fuck out of there. Let them try and remember my plate. Let's see if the DPD would actually waste time to come and find me and question me over what would amount to a (probably) $500 fine. They had no right to take her property either; they aren't the police and this ain't a police state yet. And an asshole is an asshole, no matter what the color of it's skin. | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 1081 Registered: 11-2003 |
Sounds more like a stabbed tire blowing. | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 1346 Registered: 01-2004 |
East Detroit probably sussed it out. It wasnt "snappy" enough for a pistol shot, wasnt flat enough for auto glass. The civil infraction fine for trespass is right around $100, as demonstrated by several explorers in recent years and months. Usually the police laugh and say hit the road. | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 1094 Registered: 08-2006 |
I would think that waiting untill these so called security guards were away from their cars and hurling a chunk of concrete through their windows would have been more productive then filing a police report. | ||
Canuckr Member Username: Canuckr Post Number: 64 Registered: 02-2005 |
Didn't Lowell do a little exploring before? I think he did. I think I might have noticed some older pictures of the interior of Fisher Body 21 on this site. I will ask, what would happen this happened to him? I am sure everyone here would get there panties in bunch and wage war against the security guards. I like how everyone is so high on themselves to make fun of her behind your computer screens. I know for a fact she is a good person. So what if her hobby is to take pictures inside abandoned buildings? | ||
Ragtoplover59 Member Username: Ragtoplover59 Post Number: 95 Registered: 09-2006 |
My problem with the Rent-a-cops is that no one can be sure why that car is parked there. Could of been someone involved with the ownership of the property? Could of been stranded legitimately with a problem? Could of been a car used in a crime elsewhere and dumped there, even possibly with a "Body" in the trunk? and then these two rent-a-clowns come and compromise a crime scene? or, could of just been another person struck with the fascination of a wonderful ruin? No matter what really played out here, Destruction of Property should always be left up to the bad guys, Not the Good Guys! | ||
Southen Member Username: Southen Post Number: 167 Registered: 08-2006 |
Visiting the Packard Plant has always been something Id like to do but Ive heard plenty of stories of people getting held at gunpoint, losing their photography equipment (something i cant afford to lose), or getting their car stolen. Now to see that security guards are joining in too and I think Ill avoid this place. From an exploring standpoint parking the car in that place like that seems like your asking for trouble. Whenever im out I always make sure my vehicle is in a safe place. Parking it the way she did made it look suspicious. Just my take though. Unfortunate but I think the rent a cop issue is of more concern then a girl walking around an abandoned building with a camera. | ||
Rjlj Member Username: Rjlj Post Number: 332 Registered: 11-2003 |
That sound was not the window breaking. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9178 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: My opinion towards Lowell would be the same and I will tell her that she gets no sympathy from me if I knew her. Not everyone thinks Lowell is immune from the same criticism. IMO anyone breaking into buildings should be arrested and prosecuted not matter how nice the pictures come out. | ||
Genesyxx Member Username: Genesyxx Post Number: 725 Registered: 02-2004 |
ohk, so who blaster her on her site? I love to see someone cry... | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 1453 Registered: 01-2005 |
"Unfortunate but I think the rent a cop issue is of more concern then a girl walking around an abandoned building with a camera." I totally agree with what southen just said. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9180 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: How so? Having no sympathy for criminal is a bad thing? I won't justify the guards actions but you can't expect me to feel bad for someone breaking the law can you? | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 623 Registered: 07-2005 |
quote: Thanks, I appreciate the compliment Stylin.  | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 4116 Registered: 10-2003 |
No prob at all Quozl... | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 972 Registered: 02-2006 |
Ah DetroitYes, where a conversation about breakfast cereal could turn racial. "You better put some water on that damn shit!" | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 4117 Registered: 10-2003 |
lol focus... | ||
Mayor_sekou Member Username: Mayor_sekou Post Number: 851 Registered: 09-2006 |
All I know is she sounded like Andy Milonakis and that is reason enough to shoot at her, take that you damn "urban explorers". Yeah Focus it is funny, very few threads exist without someone calling the other a racist its amusing but tiring. Wally how many of your 150 or so post are not arguing with Stylin' about race? | ||
Mayor_sekou Member Username: Mayor_sekou Post Number: 852 Registered: 09-2006 |
On second thought I wonder if Navi is the girl in the video? It is this persons first post and DYesers are more likely to "urban explore" than other people. So Navi are you the "victim" in this video or am I completely crazy? | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 4118 Registered: 10-2003 |
*taking note of the quotes around victim* | ||
Mbr Member Username: Mbr Post Number: 149 Registered: 03-2005 |
I thought the same thing Mayor. Seems a bit odd for a first time poster to choose this randomly. Perhaps we can request Navi to shed some light on his/her intentions or motivations. | ||
Traxus Member Username: Traxus Post Number: 94 Registered: 02-2006 |
I neglected to read most of the politics in this thread; but most of the people that I know who trespass in abandon buildings to photograph don't park their car right out front. | ||
Andylinn Member Username: Andylinn Post Number: 408 Registered: 04-2006 |
some thoughts... well. oddly enough, looking at her pictures / other info (30 something from the burbs who explores), i think i ran into her at the fort shelby about 7 months ago. -she was carrying a bike pipe then and said it was "just for safety." maybe that's what the crow bar was for? sounds ok to me... -she was alone then... with just a camera. no buddy... said she explored alone... -the sound in the video sounded NOTHING like a broken window... ALOT like a gun shot -however, she should know better - and anyone who explores should be a hell of a lot smarter about parking... that's why you should bike to location... or park farther away... -guards had no right to shoot or slash. should have arrested her instead, or held her in custody, or had her car impounded... | ||
48202 Member Username: 48202 Post Number: 38 Registered: 10-2003 |
Guys dressed in navy blue pants and shirts, with a badge – must be legitimate security guards. Gullible Myspace blogger. Blog posted on Myspace – event must have happened exactly as written. Gullible Detroityes forum members. (Message edited by 48202 on May 16, 2007) | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 1351 Registered: 01-2004 |
"Having no sympathy for criminal is a bad thing?" Criminal ? As I illustrated, this simply is not a criminal offense. The property being left in its current condition is certainly a criminal offense. Nobody gets hauled off to jail for walking through an abandoned building with a camera. They get a ticket. Its like calling somebody with an expired parking meter a criminal. Good points about emergencies and the guards not knowing what that car was there for. Professionals would simply await the owner, and summon proper authorities to issue a citation and a warning. The guard may or may not have discharged a fire arm - if he did, he certainly broke the law as he was protecting nothing. But he certainly is carrying a very good sized knife. Proper equipment for any security force.....? Put down your pitchforks and torches and take a deep breath people. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 1046 Registered: 06-2006 |
If someone was shooting at me, I certainly wouldn't stand in a window opening and yell at them! I'd be running... | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9182 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Two wrongs don't make a right and there is nothing to justify breaking the law even if the building is in poor shape. The justification for 'explorers' (read, tresspassers) and graf 'artists' is absolute crap. Breaking the law is breaking the law and judgement rules about how someone keeps their property should not apply. If my neighbors house looks like shit does that give me the right to destroy part of their house? The simple fact of the matter some explorers may not be destructive but that certainly does not apply to all. She's a criminal, plain and simple. The actions of the security guards was ridiculous but in the long run if it keeps her out of other buildings I am happy. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 783 Registered: 04-2006 |
I know next to no one who stands in a window and continues talking/filming while they are being shot at. Sometimes the sound of an inner tube popping can sound like a gun shot. I still have no sympathy at all (even if she was getting shot at) because she continued to stand in the window! | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 974 Registered: 02-2006 |
^^and talk shit back to the ones possibly shooting at her. Yeah, that's smart. | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 1097 Registered: 08-2006 |
"Guys dressed in navy blue pants and shirts, with a badge – must be legitimate security guards. Gullible Myspace blogger. Blog posted on Myspace – event must have happened exactly as written. Gullible Detroityes forum members. " I dunno, what would she gain by having her boyfriends dress up as security guards and then proceeding to do a $1000 worth of damage to her car? Does My Space pay some kinda award money for these videos? Doubt it. I used to like the idea of exploring, to document these buildings before they were torn down. I took lots of pics of the Northville tunnels complex that I still cherish. But people like me are indistinguishable from the punk who shows up with the intent of knocking walls down with his high powered shot gun. Has anyone checked out Fisher Plant 21 lately? The people that own these buildings would be smart to open them up for guided tours they could charge for. That way they'd be making something on it. Too bad that something would be paltry to the insurance costs. | ||
Rocket_city Member Username: Rocket_city Post Number: 256 Registered: 04-2006 |
The "security" guard was trash. The civilized thing to do would have been to call Boulevard Towing to remove the car, not pull out our gun and start firing away. Yah, she was trespassing, but the actions of the guard were pathetic and barbaric. Power tripping. Resolving conflict the only way the urban ghetto knows how. | ||
Rfban Member Username: Rfban Post Number: 72 Registered: 02-2004 |
Agreed R_C. I doubt she paid anybody. | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 1354 Registered: 01-2004 |
"She's a criminal, plain and simple." No. Shes a person who committed a civil infraction. Just like a parking ticket. You can not redefine things with stubbornness, law dont work like that. I also do not recall anything about her painting on anything. Thats apples and oranges. The owners however are probably committing criminal negligence. Maybe not, in which case they are also guilty of a simple civil infraction. If your neighbors yard has something you dont like in it, and you go change it without destroying or intending to destroy - EVEN if there are verbal, written and posted warnings saying "no trespassing", the most you are going to get is that civil infraction ticket, but probably not even that. Dont like that, start writing letters to Lansing. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9192 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: If your neighbors house looks cool does that give you the right to go in without consent? If the window is open it could be construed as trespassing. The extent of the punishment does not change the fact that she was committing a crime. I'm done with this argument since we won't see eye to eye. But since she has stated that she doesn't destroy anything we should just take her at her word and give her free reign. The condition of the building is deplorable but the owners have security guards. That would mean that they are trying to keep people out. The guards actions were inexcussable but I have no sympathy for poor little trespasser. I'm sure if she fell and broke her leg she would be on the news bitching that these buildings should be secure. She gets no sympathy from me. But we can continue to have the arguments how a crack head breaking a car window is horrible (not saying you said that) but 'explorers' and graffitti artists are noble and honest in their pursuits. | ||
Warriorfan Member Username: Warriorfan Post Number: 722 Registered: 08-2005 |
Wow, why all the hatred towards this woman? As someone else pointed out, simple trespassing on private property without B&E or property damage will only get you a citation from the cops (basically, a written warning to stay away). She wouldn't have even been arrested. So does that extremely minor infraction warrant having her vehicle vandalized like that and possibly shot at? I guess two wrongs make a right, at least in the minds of DYES posters. I like how people go out of their way to justify the far far more serious crimes of the security guards as being acceptable. If that's what they do to this woman, what the fuck do you think these Dirty Harrys do to the homeless people they encounter inside? And finally, do all you assholes who think that this woman deserved what happened to her also have the same righteous indignation for Detroitblog and other sites where people take pictures inside abandoned buildings in Detroit? Nice double standard you all have. When these same guards beat up a homeless guy when they are on their next power trip, I hope you will still defend them. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9193 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: I do not believe it warrants the actions of the guards but I certainly will have no sympathy for her. quote: Nope, both groups should be held accountable but again I have no sympathy for her and hopefully she will stay out of buildings she has no right being in after this. quote: Yes I think that that it is bs they believe they have the right to be in property that is not theirs. I think trespassing penalties should be trumped up and they should all be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Of course I am a proponent of the broken windows theory. quote: Nope. When these same guards beat up a homeless guy when they are on their next power trip, I hope you will still defend them. | ||
Warriorfan Member Username: Warriorfan Post Number: 723 Registered: 08-2005 |
^^^ No, I don't condone the actions of vigilante security guards who take the law into their own hands, but many here on DYes seem to. Fine, you want the young woman to be held accountable to the fullest extent of the law? That means a written warning to stay off the property, THAT is the "fullest extent" for first time trespassing without prior warning. If she were caught a second time, she'd get a $50 fine. OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! What a big time criminal she is! She's a regular Al Capone! I like you said in your earlier post that the cops should have "charged" her with trespassing. According to the MCL, trespassing isn't even an arrestable offense in the state of Michigan because it is not punishable by more than 90 days in jail. The cops couldn't do shit to her other than issue a warning, she certainly wouldn't be "charged" with anything. And let me ask you one final question, do you believe that Lowell should be held criminally responsible for the photos he took inside the Ford Piquette Plant that can be seen on the Industrial Ruins picture tour here on DYes? If you answer anything but "yes", you are a hypocrite. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9198 Registered: 10-2003 |
So the law isn't tight on it we should look the other way. What ignorant logic. The penalties for littering aren't bad; should I dump all of my garbage on your front lawn? If your front door is open should I just walk in because I want to take some pictures? Light punishment doesn't change my opinion. How do the cops know she wasn't destroying property, spray painting, stealing, etc. I would hope that they could charge her for attempted theft (or whatever the correct term is). Oh yeah, we should take her word for it. Nice. quote: Good God I have been asked this a million fucking times and yes, I believe that he should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. OK, instead of hoping that she gets her $50 dollar fine I hope that something happens to her next time she decides to go into a property that is not hers. Is that better? I'm sure we will all hear about the 'defenseless, innocent girl that gets hurt or attacked illegally entering a building. Keep justifying her illegal actions. If the penalty being a $50 dollar fine causes your justification do you also justify people that litter? Same idea. Now a question for the legal people here: Is there a difference between trespassing and illegal entry? If so what is the potential penalty for illegal entry? (Message edited by jt1 on May 16, 2007) | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 4421 Registered: 10-2003 |
OK, so let’s say you come home and you find a car parked in your driveway and see a person in your backyard taking pictures? Do you: A) Call the police B) Observe the situation and confront the person C) Keep it real and smash their car window | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9200 Registered: 10-2003 |
Again, I am not justifying the guards actions. They were wrong but does that excuse her actions. And yes I do not support the actions of Lowell or other sites that have pictures that were obtained illegally. I figure I would repeat it before being asked again. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 2180 Registered: 12-2005 |
I think that BANG! was a gunshot rather than her rear windshield breaking. The guards appear to be too far from her car both before and after the bang to have run back to break the windshield. Perhaps they shot it out from a distance. Either way the guards don't seem too bright acting like that with so little cover from return fire. | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 357 Registered: 02-2006 |
Ah yes. Punish a crime by committing another crime. Gotta love Detroit. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 787 Registered: 04-2006 |
D) All of the above. | ||
Warriorfan Member Username: Warriorfan Post Number: 724 Registered: 08-2005 |
quote: Apples and oranges. Entering an occupied dwelling without permission is hardly the same thing as entering an abandoned building with the intent to take pictures to document the state of the building for historical and educational purposes. Was what she did "technically" against the law? Yes. Was it the same as home invasion? No, and it would not be perceived as such by the police either. Rolling a stop sign is against the law too, but it's not the same as blowing through a red light. I wouldn't point fingers if I were you, unless you've lived an infraction free life. If your defintion of "criminal" includes minor non-arrestable infractions like trespassing, then we're all criminals including you, unless you've never once drove over the speed limit or parked in front of a fire hydrant or turned right when there is a "no turn on red" sign or pulled a U-turn across the double line, etc. Next time you do something like that, I hope some passerby fucks your car up as a reward for your dangerous criminal behavior. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9203 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: I will again state "Again, I am not justifying the guards actions. They were wrong but does that excuse her actions." quote: You really equate her actions to Are you equating her actions to driving over the speed limit. How about the littering comparison. Can I come to your house and throw my trash all over the lawn? It is a minor infraction so it must be acceptable in your book. If I get stopped for speeding, an illegal U-turn, etc I expect to get the ticket. I however (my personal opinion) do not equate those to her complete disregard for the property of others. (Message edited by jt1 on May 16, 2007) | ||
Rocket_city Member Username: Rocket_city Post Number: 258 Registered: 04-2006 |
So, I wonder. If the girl ever revealed who vandalized her car, could she sue the security company for damages? I'm being serious...I don't know...I'm thinking of the argument response that, "no, she could not because she was on private property." And if that's the case, what is stopping casino security from smashing up vehicles in their garages (private property) downtown?...or say, Compuware Garage, etc... My biggest issue with this whole thing is what happened to the car and if there was in fact open gunfire. The fact that there was illegal tresspass and the lack of addressing it properly is practically irrelavant. If the law always one-uped lawlessness by committing lawlessness, what the hell kind of city are we living in? Just like the Kilpatrick scandal, nobody should be held accountable. Why? Is it because human standards are just that much acceptably lower within city limits? | ||
Hamtramike Member Username: Hamtramike Post Number: 471 Registered: 12-2003 |
The girl entered w/o permission (MCL 750.115) (...and you will find those prosecuted for it on OTIS) | ||
Bate Member Username: Bate Post Number: 87 Registered: 02-2005 |
Having visited a number of popular Detroit exploration sites myself, it's very easy to comment on what she did wrong. Leaving her car where she did was stupid plain and simple. The noise on the video was clearly a single shot that likely entered the rear side window and exited the rear back glass. The video shows the windows intact just before the shot/report. Based on this, one must now include the possibility of being shot at to the list of risks before making the decision to trespass. The thought of armed dimwitted security-monkeys might put me off any future exploration. | ||
Navi Member Username: Navi Post Number: 2 Registered: 09-2005 |
No, I'm not the girl in the video. I wanted to see what this forum would say on the matter. I didn't mention that they were security guards because I forgot. Sorry. Lastly, I'm pretty sure the guards are there to protect whatever shady operations they have over in that one part of the Packard. They only stay over there and don't "protect" the whole Packard. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 11573 Registered: 10-2003 |
First off, that obviously was NOT a gun shot. A hand gun makes more of a pop, that was way too drawn out and deep, much similar to a shot from a shotgun, and no rent-a-cop would be carrying a shotgun. To me, as mentioned above, it sounds like the tire popping, as it's more of a drawn out sound, like an explosion. As for her car, seriously, what the hell was she thinking parking where she did? I'm still laughing my ass off over the damage to her car. Sure, she can press charges if she'd like. However, whoever owns the property will also proceed to charge her to the fullest extent of the law. I'm sure that aside from trespassing they could charge her with other things, perhaps breaking and entering or unlawful entry into a building, something that would go on her permanent record for sure.Threatened with that, I'm sure few people would pursue a legal battle in court. Consider it an expensive lesson learned, fix your car, and don't be such a stupid ass next time. | ||
Lukabottle Member Username: Lukabottle Post Number: 48 Registered: 12-2004 |
I can't say I have never done any exploring but what she did was just stupid. Hopefully what happened to her car will keep her from entering more buildings and prevent her from possibly getting seriously hurt by something worse than a security guard. Much worse things could have occurred. I do agree that the security guards should have called the cops, arrested her, and impounded her car. If they couldn't catch her, removing her car would have at least taught her a valuable lesson. I tend to agree that the security guards were not securing the building but something else. The actions were meant to scare and were not professional. | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 1357 Registered: 01-2004 |
"no rent-a-cop would be carrying a shotgun" How a bout a big huge knife ? Hahahaha ! I agree with SS about the concussion of handguns - more of a pop or a snap depending on caliber. That was a tire failing after being stabbed. After parking is such a stuuuuuuupid spot and having this happen, I would think her best bet would be to go right to the car, refuse to turn over any personal property, and allow the actual authorities to be called. While the guards were in the right as far as her not being allowed where she was, the destroyed car was simply not called for. Unfortunately the writer "doesnt remember" anything after she started talking to them...? All strange stuff. But Im telling you folks from experience, you do not get arrested for walking through an open building. Ticket, ticket, ticket. Period. | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 1358 Registered: 01-2004 |
Oh, and the LEAST the owners could do is SHUT THE FRONT DOOR | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 1359 Registered: 01-2004 |
http://www.detroitfunk.com/ima gecopyrighted/APR07/DSC_2804.j pg The front door is to the left in this photo. | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 1083 Registered: 11-2003 |
Maybe the security guards were upset about how dirty her car is. The steering wheel covered in slime, the console, the floor... Somehow the broken glass on the seat and floor doesnt offer the contrast that it normally would. | ||
Bate Member Username: Bate Post Number: 88 Registered: 02-2005 |
Gunshot or not...tires don't yield with an explosion when stabbed in the side-wall; a hissssssssssssssssssssssss at best. Gross over-inflation is an other story, but I didn't see an air hose and compressor in the posted video. From the last shown position of the guard(s), I think the possibilities are limited to some type of projectile was used to take out the windows. | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 3512 Registered: 10-2003 |
well, the conclusion here is obvious. When out on urban archeology expeditions, either park discreetly down the block and walk, or better yet, ride your bike to the site! Also, avoid buildings that have Security Guards, buildings that are boarded up, or buildings with "no trespassing" signs! | ||
Rjlj Member Username: Rjlj Post Number: 334 Registered: 11-2003 |
.... or buildings you do not own or have permission to be in. | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 3513 Registered: 10-2003 |
....and if you are really, really concerned, Adopt an abandoned building and keep it secured! or even better, buy your own abandoned building and fix it up! | ||
Benjo Member Username: Benjo Post Number: 15 Registered: 02-2007 |
Wow, I´m glad I´m on vacation in the safe haven of Chiapas, Mexico surrounded by Zapatista rebels toting machine guns and not in Detroit this week. | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 1103 Registered: 08-2006 |
The one way this video could be a hoax if it were commissioned by the owners of the Packard Plant as a means of keeping would be explorers out. Sacrificing a 10 yo Ford would be a small price to pay to prevent further destruction inside. However, if that were the true intent all we've really learned is that if you want to explore an empty building, don't park on the property. | ||
Rfban Member Username: Rfban Post Number: 80 Registered: 02-2004 |
Naaaaa, Did you see all of those buildings that girl went in? Good thinking though. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 11574 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Not true. When an otherwise good tire all of the sudden has a puncture, the air tries to escape. Add 2,000-3,000 lbs of weight over the front tires, and that escaping air may create a means to escape faster, such as blowing a larger hole in the tire, in turn creating the sound heard. | ||
Sitlet Member Username: Sitlet Post Number: 6 Registered: 03-2007 |
at the very beginning of the video, you see the guard slash the left tire. it makes a HISSING sound, not a gunshot sound. that pop IS a gunshot. the guard was walking away from the car, so it is NOT the sound of him popping a tire or breaking glass. if you listen very closely with good speakers you can hear the bullet hit the building. | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 4142 Registered: 10-2003 |
Nice to see all the ballistic experts on this forum... | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2615 Registered: 10-2003 |
Sorry sport, you're again delusional and need a refresher course in physics. The only number that matters is the air pressure in the tire. That would be less than 30 LBS per square inch. Definitely not enough pressure to blow a larger hole in a tire. The weight of the car is irrelevant. Only the air pressure of the tire is important in a stationary vehicle tire failure. | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 1363 Registered: 01-2004 |
"The one way this video could be a hoax if it were commissioned by the owners of the Packard Plant" Wow - just like the people who filmed Slumpys face falling off were actually throwing rocks ? Pffft. Ndavies is making sense here as usual. Im going to have to listen to that vid with some high quality headphones. | ||
Russix Member Username: Russix Post Number: 7 Registered: 11-2006 |
Yeah, i was filming some footage OUTSIDE the packard back in '99. Construction workers were removing big yellow plastic containers and placing them on a leak proof ground cloth outside. Keep in mind this was when the city was demolishing the plant before the owners stepped in and halted it. All of the workers who came anywhere near the containers were wearing a very serious haz-matt suit. I asked one of the workers what was in the containers and he said it was some type of hazardous material that had been dumped illegally. So getting your tires slashed at the Packard plant should be the least of your worries if you are potentially exposing yourself to some form of highly carcinogenesis substance. | ||
Wolverine Member Username: Wolverine Post Number: 323 Registered: 04-2004 |
The same can be said about Fisher Autobody. - I suddenly feel ill again. | ||
Jeduncan Member Username: Jeduncan Post Number: 90 Registered: 11-2006 |
I'd be lying if I said I haven't explored Packard and other ruins around detroit, but unlike this girl I was prepared to deal with shady characters, security, and/or police (been arrested for trespassing before). lol, that's why I don't drive to these locations. After all, people, it is still private property. And trespassing is trespassing, whether or not your intentions were malicious. It's very cool to see, but you can't bitch when you get what is coming to you. | ||
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 140 Registered: 08-2006 |
Look, the girl made a stupid call parking her car in the lot like the Packard's a freaking Meijer's or something. These security guards are from DETROIT deal with it. They don't bother you if you stay away from them, if you don't PARK YOUR UGLY ASS CAR IN THEIR PARKING LOT. And go with a FRIEND, you are lucky the SECURITY GUARDS are shooting at you not some gangbanging crack head. my two cents... | ||
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 141 Registered: 08-2006 |
PS - I've had my fair share of exploring the Packard, most of you know that, most of us have. But you don't park next to it. Park down the block, ride your bike over. Also, I don't know anyone that has gone there by themselves. That is just plain STUPID. Someone stop me before I slap this Myspace drone. |
