Discuss Detroit » Archives - Beginning January 2007 » Detroit: Sanctuary City « Previous Next »
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Young_detroiter
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Username: Young_detroiter

Post Number: 192
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 1:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Free Press reports that the City Council has "passed a new ordinance that bans profiling people based on race, immigration status, ethnicity, dress and appearance, among other factors."

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20070509/NEW S01/70509045

While immigrants or those that resemble "immigrants" can be protected from being asked for documents, how does the ban protect the others?

How can it be proven that one was stopped for Driving While Black? How can the urban-dressing teen prove that his attire caused him to be questioned by cops?

What impact will this ban have on the region? Will Detroit be grouped into the category of "Sanctuary Cities" along with Los Angeles and Chicago, as the article suggests? If so, will this pique the interest of undocumented and documented Mexican immigrants?

Detroit already has a growing Latino community, but if Chicanos or Mexican Americans feel assured that they can be protected in Detroit, will Detroit become the new Latino destination?

While Latinos are not the only group to be harassed or racially profiled, it can be said the native-born Mexican Americans along with legal immigrants have been asked for immigration documents in increasing numbers.
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Why
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Username: Why

Post Number: 10
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 1:24 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Last paragraph.....GOOD! Do you wonder why?
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Mayor_sekou
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Username: Mayor_sekou

Post Number: 843
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 1:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why, Why?
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Young_detroiter
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Username: Young_detroiter

Post Number: 193
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 4:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In spite of the ongoing debates regarding "illegal" immigration, or the immigration of undocumented individuals, I believe that most would agree that racial profiling is still wrong.
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Southwestmap
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Username: Southwestmap

Post Number: 814
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 4:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe I am influenced by those old WWII movies that I watched while growing up. If the scenes were European/German/threatening, they conveyed the threat by having people constantly stopped and their "papers" demanded. The heroes always had false papers or no papers and there was a lot of tension.
Ever since, I've had a horror of citizens being stopped in this free country by armed police and asked to provide their "papers." It is very un-American and police-state in my mind.

In SW Detroit sadly, I'm seeing lots of Homeland Security SUV's in the neighborhoods now. I imagine that they, wearing their sidearms, are approaching people, demanding their papers and then arresting the menfolk.

I think its very sad and I am ashamed.
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Homer
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Username: Homer

Post Number: 169
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 6:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have an aquaintance who is a Bush Loving, Right Wing, Staunch Republican and Latino. Poor guy was pulled over on Fort Street under the Ambassador Bridge by State Police for no good reason. No ticket issued but had to prove he was a citizen.
Sometimes you get bit in the Ass.
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Jerome81
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Username: Jerome81

Post Number: 1429
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 4:38 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm surprised this thread has not gotten more response.

I'm not sure I understand exactly what this ruling means when it comes to immigration enforcement.

I definitely disagree with racial profiling, but I also tend to feel that illegals should have to go through all the same processes as anyone else who wants to be in this country legally. If you're illegal, you should be sent home. I would expect nothing less if I was in another country illegally and was caught.

Does this ruling mean DPD cannot even report suspicious activity or if they somehow stumble across evidence people are here illegally they can't act or report it to Homeland Security/INS? Or does it simply mean DPD is prohibited from investigating immigration issues?

I dont know what the answer is. I do think it is important to enforce immigration laws, but I also don't believe it is right to have police going around asking randomly for ID to determine if you're legal or not. With that said, if people are stopped for another reason(speeding, robbery, drugs, etc) I think I disagree with them not being allowed to dig further to determine resident status. The police are there to enforce the law. If they're not, they're doing everyone a disservice.

So, exactly what does this mean? Is this a good thing or more amnesty-type laws that seem to just blindly overlook illegals in this country?
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6nois
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Username: 6nois

Post Number: 224
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 12:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I call this a good thing. It clearly states that profiling is bad and it acknowledges that the metro Detroit area is made up of many different types of people and it is not okay for the police to go around asking anyone who looks tan for their legal status.
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Irish_mafia
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Username: Irish_mafia

Post Number: 899
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 3:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What a bunch of morons (council that is, not posters).
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Oldredfordette
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Username: Oldredfordette

Post Number: 1677
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 3:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's a good thing that City Council is taking measure against hysteria and hatred in the city. I wish they could show as much compassion to the homeless while they're at it.
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Dougw
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Username: Dougw

Post Number: 1671
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 4:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Agreed with Oldredfordette that this ordinance is a good idea, and fair. I disagree about the homeless, though.
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Jerome81
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Username: Jerome81

Post Number: 1433
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 4:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So you feel it is a good idea (the ordinance)?

Just out of curiousity, do you feel this way because you believe illegals should be given amnesty or is this just the right thing and let the INS/Border Patrol/Homeland Security deal with immigration?

I ask, because I think a lot of people that support these laws are those who are in favor of turning a blind eye toward illegal immigration, illegal criminals, and businesses that knowingly hire illegals.
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6nois
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Username: 6nois

Post Number: 227
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Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 6:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't have an opinion one way or another on illegal immigrants, they are trying to do what is best for them and there families like anyone would. I think this is good because 1 it's INS/Border Patrol/Homeland Securities job, thats what we pay these departments for, 2 it protects the american way of life for all americans.
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Irish_mafia
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Username: Irish_mafia

Post Number: 900
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Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 8:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I do.

Let's see: Free Health Care, Free Education, No taxes paid, Crime problems and a federal security threat.

Screw em.

If you want to come into this country, do it legally.

If people want more of any given country's residence to come into this country legally, then get off your ass and petition your congressmen to up the quota allowed in.

Then we would be letting screened immigrants in who would pay taxes and become a useful part of our society.

Until then, they are not welcome in the club.
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6nois
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Username: 6nois

Post Number: 228
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 8:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually evidence suggests that some illegals do pay income taxes. Most states and the IRS have special filing numbers for immigrants. IRS records show that last year 1.5 million numbers were issued which means 1.5 million payed taxes. From 1996 to 2003 $23 billion was filled in this manner. So saying that they are getting free services is a bit misleading. Some are but many are not. This is good practice for everyone it gives immigrants an example of them being good 'citizens' and it pays for them being here.
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Jams
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Username: Jams

Post Number: 4970
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 9:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

No taxes paid,



Actually in most cases taxes are paid. Remember that little thing of the withholding form that is signed for most employment?

It is just no other tax forms are filed, so the government just keeps the taxes withheld and the "illegal" just gives up that income as part of living, if you don't file you don't get a refund.
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Eastsidedame
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Username: Eastsidedame

Post Number: 133
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 6:48 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Excuse me, I was just reading and not planning to post, but:

Are "profiling" and using common freaking sense the same thing, or not?

Should we have been researching blue-eyed Swedes when the WTC was hit? Or Af-Ams for that matter?

We are going to PC ourselves into oblivion at this rate. I'm sure our enemies are counting on it.
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Wally2times
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Username: Wally2times

Post Number: 103
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 9:27 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the police should be able to ask whoever, whenever and however they want regarding the status of one's residency here in thi country.

All this racial profiling is bs. A law should be enacted that every person with legal status in this country carries a national card which cannot be duplicated .

That will solve all the crybaby nonsense regarding racial profiling.
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Young_detroiter
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Username: Young_detroiter

Post Number: 194
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 4:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It is easy to say that we should do anything for Homeland Security, if you are not the subject of their interest.

However, imagine if you fit the appearance in which federal officials or local police agencies seek. As you carry your groceries to your car, as you drive, as you jog, etc., you are not just questioned, but insulted and harassed by the agents. They sling degrading insults at you, and you have been a citizen of the country all your life. Possibly your family has been in the country longer than theirs'.

I have been racially profiled by police, but that is almost expected in this country if you are the right minority. Yet, in December, I posted about an interesting event that occurred to me.

Though my Native American ancestors have been on this land for thousands of years, my African ancestors have been here for at least several centuries, and my European ancestors for just as long, I found myself trying to prove my citizenship. I was debating with the Homeland Security agent that I really have a right to be on this land. I repeatedly told him that I am an American citizen and that I and virtually all my family were born here, but for some reason he felt that he could interrogate me.

Would a "national card" or carrying one's passport potentially prevent occurrences like this? Possibly. But do I want to resort to that? No. We are compromising our freedoms, because we are internalizing the falsehoods of our government.

Walking around flashing your ID nonstop and debating your citizenship is humiliating, and is like walking around with a star posted on one's chest.
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Warrenite84
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Username: Warrenite84

Post Number: 89
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 11:25 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have no problem with a cop asking if I'm a citizen or for my green card.
What is it about people who don't understand the word,"illegal"?
Our society has many lines. Wait your turn like everyone else.
If you are here legally, welcome!

As I have said before, if you are illegal, you should be shipped to Iraq to serve one tour of duty. If you die there, we will bury you in Arlington National Cemetary as a war hero. If you survive, we will welcome you as a full citizen with all rights afforded citizenship.

Part two, you must assimilate. That's why our motto is ,"e pluribus unum", "from many, one".
There is nothing wrong with cultural associations. We would like to associate with you too.

We cannot save the world by having all the world's people emigrate here. They need to make changes to their own country to make it more livable for them. I know that is not always possible. Lord knows we shipped a lot of good paying jobs to other countries. You would think some of that prosperity would trickle down to their workers. Probably not.

Young_detroiter, I agree with you. As long as they ask everyone during a traffic stop with verification thru a drivers' license would I consider it ok. No harassing.
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Wally2times
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Username: Wally2times

Post Number: 104
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 11:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, I look Arabic, although my middle eastern roots are long gone in history I still pass for a middle easterner and I happen to be a ***"legal"*** resident. (<----KEYWORD PEOPLE)

I have no problem being asked , nor should anyone else.\

I would love to have open borders throughout the entire world but its obvious that this is not possible because of security threats here in the states.

I am a firm believer in kicking out illegals. Its not good for security and it dmn sure is not good for our economy.

I mean be realistic, what the hell do people think the U.S. is? A place to take in all the strays of the world? This country is going to go to shit if our politicians continue allowing this free [passage .

Countries allow a certain amount of immigration yearly, illegals have basically killed legal immigration into this country for upteen number of years.

Its going to take a long time to recoup finances that have been drained because of illegals and this damn war.

Don't Americans want America to continue being srong?

As a proud resident immigrant I go out of my way to call immigration on people I know that are illegal.

Sorry, but illegals are killing this great country first, next these damn religous nuts, and next this god forsaken war oin terror that may never end which is why closed borders are needed.

"Our People" must feel safe at home and most do not. Is this what people want?

We are dealing with an enemy that intends on world domination and people are acting as if we should turn the other cheek and take it.

I for one, and many others I might add do not want to live under any religous bullshit rule and we especially do not want Taliban style dictators.

Sorry, just my thoughts.

(Message edited by wally2times on May 13, 2007)
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Kathinozarks
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Username: Kathinozarks

Post Number: 460
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 11:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The legal immigrants in this country should be the people rallying against the illegals. Where is their outrage at having to put up with racial profiling?

If thousands of white females were coming into this country illegally I would be like, "Oh no you don't, you're making my life miserable!"

Is there a group of legal Latino(a)/ hispanic/ mexican/whatever people in the U.S. who are working to get the illegals out of the country?
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Warrenite84
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Username: Warrenite84

Post Number: 91
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 11:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No apologies necessary.
We just need to stick together and let our Congress know what we hired them for.
This war on terrorism will take a long time and we all need strong backs and unity to see this thru.
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Wally2times
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Username: Wally2times

Post Number: 105
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 12:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Im a legal immigrant , and Id be happy to join in on a public outcry against illegals, not just hispanics, but all illegals.

Have something setup already?

It pisses me off . But I think citizens should also be vocal about their outrage and stop buying into this turn the other cheek politically correct bull shit because when their women are wearing burkas, and their men are treated as slaves by the ruling authority they will act as if a teen that grew into an adult and that familiar line will ring true "I should have listened"

but no, you will have to make your own mistakes, guess its the only way the overly kind will learn.
You can be kind, and understanding to peoples problems and histories but you cannot be weak when it comes to your countries survival.

Americans and legal residents of all backgrounds need to come together and (pardon the verbage) but deport the enemy that threatens our way of life.
The enemy is within the illegal community, and some with in legal status and even some citizens. They must be weeded out.
There is a group of people that want to see this country fall and if people do not stand up, then it will.

People will say we have messed up foreign policy, true, we do and we can change that but our country is no where near repugnant as %99 of other goverments throughtout the world.

Funny, after 9/11 we were still on top of the world and all of a sudden we are labeled as Nazis, by Russia no less.
LOLOL The opitimy of corruption. LOLOL AInt that some shit.
And you peaceniks are all along for the ride. Its a shame.
Do you honestly and whole heartedly think that you would have any kind of life if this country falls?

Think about it people.

(Message edited by wally2times on May 13, 2007)
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Barnesfoto
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Username: Barnesfoto

Post Number: 3491
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Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 2:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"The enemy is within the illegal community, and some with in legal status and even some citizens. They must be weeded out".

Wow, that sounds easy. Got an address?
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6nois
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Username: 6nois

Post Number: 229
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 3:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I refuse to follow the pack on this. This is America. Land of the free. And by free I mean free of harassment by police over my legal standing as a citizen. Free from all this bullshit of whatever it takes to make us safe. If you are free and live in such a great country anyone who wants to attack us or whatever can't make us weak. So no I won't stand behind this.
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Wally2times
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Username: Wally2times

Post Number: 106
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 4:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

sure, it "WAS" the land of the free until it was invaded by illegals and radicals that want to take the country and make it theirs.

What'cha gonna do when they strip you of your oh so valuble freedoms and make everyone here they're bitch including you?

Where will your constitutional rights be then? I guess that would be the governemnts fault also huh?
I guess you'll blame Bush's monkey ass like all the rest of the peaceniks. Hey, what the F? Its the in thing to do isnt it?
Its not like there are just monsters throughout the world that are Jealous of all "your freedoms" now is there? Not like there are radical religous freaks that would like nothing better than world domination.
You can't seriously tell me you would not sacrifice a little to keep all that you have.

QUOTE:
If you are free and live in such a great country anyone who wants to attack us or whatever can't make us weak. So no I won't stand behind this.

We are already weak. We have Congress and Senators ready to throw the towel in to a bunch of crazy assholes that love to die and have no problem blowing us up if we do not give in to their demented ways.
But I guess your rational on that is regime change huh? Ask Spain if their regime change after the train bombings stopped radicals. Ask England in a couple of years when their women are turned into slaves and you have to pray to a non existant god 5 times a day or you get your head chopped off at Wembly Stadium.

Will you stand for it when you lose your home? your job? your way of life? Possibly even your own damn life or that of your family.
I guess the situation in Detroit and its finances are not a sign enough for the "I forgive you's" or the "turn the other cheeks" on this board.

Oh well, we'll see when they take your only jobs left, and when they end up blowing up the RenCen as they initially planned.

Why is it so hard for people to understand the words "ILLEGAL", "RADICAL"?

How about "way of life" ? You remember what that means dont ya?

Call it a bandwagon or what ever you will but your attitude of turn the other cheek is going to end up being the death of you if ever these assholes get a true grip on America.

(Message edited by wally2times on May 13, 2007)
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Wally2times
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Username: Wally2times

Post Number: 107
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 5:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

"The enemy is within the illegal community, and some with in legal status and even some citizens. They must be weeded out".

Wow, that sounds easy. Got an address?



NO one said it would be easy genius. But its something that needs to be done otherwise your constitutional right to be such a wise ass will be forsaken.
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Themax
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Username: Themax

Post Number: 663
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Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 6:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From what I've heard, the hope was that the immigrant communities would be more likely to cooperate with the police reporting on local criminals if they didn't fear having their residency status questioned.

As for illegals being the enemy: How much do you figure your chicken dinner would cost if illegals weren't processing the chickens? or harvesting the fruit and vegetables?
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Jenniferl
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Username: Jenniferl

Post Number: 367
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Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 7:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If by "profiling", they mean the cops randomly pulling people over and harrassing them just because they happen to look or talk or dress a certain way, then I agree that profiling should be banned. However, I do think the cops should be able to check on someone's immigration status if that person is being arrested for an actual crime.
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Wally2times
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Username: Wally2times

Post Number: 109
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 9:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

As for illegals being the enemy: How much do you figure your chicken dinner would cost if illegals weren't processing the chickens? or harvesting the fruit and vegetables?

The same as it is now with allowances for inflation.

Machines have taken over where manual labor once was needed.

Cmon, get a better argument.
Just FYI, my father being a business owner since he was 19, and has owned 3 different businesses and if he did not have at least a clear put in his pocket
%100 profit then he is not doing it, or selling it, or consulting it.

That bs about businesses operating on a %10 profit margin, that was created by business owners to keep all the money in their pockets not the employees and Ill be god damned if Im gonna give an illegal a job and Ill be god damned if pops did not have legal residents and american citizens working under me for more than sufficent wages in what you would call a menial position.

I know you don't honestly believe these so called immigrant criminals contribute to this society do you?

Someone else said they paid taxes , the taxes are taken out of their checks.

Really,? Is this why every illegal that I know(and reported) claim 15 dependents on a stolen SS number? (just fyi, the ones with a work number issued by the fed, they came legally but did they overstay?)
Debunking the government and you and I pay the tab.
Be realistic, they drain this system and have cost us more than the bs Iraq war and will continue to do so until these criminals are ejected from our borders.

Right there are 3 felonies,
Illegal entry
Stolen SS Numbers
Perjury on taxes
Claiming numerous dependents with numerous stolen SS numbers , recieving huge refunds they are not entitled to.
Who the hell do you pays for that?
How much criminal activity is ok with you beatniks?
And you want Julio,, Vladislaw,Abdullah,Stephanski and Ikabo to stay and help you keep a cheap piece of KFC on your plate and mine?
Id rather give the Colonel an extra 25 cents knowing that Joe Schmoo or Mr..Johnson got paid to do the work that they so desperately needed because their union fucked up the auto industry and menial labor was all that they had left to survive.

Wke up and smell the damn coffee.
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Wally2times
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Username: Wally2times

Post Number: 110
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 9:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

If by "profiling", they mean the cops randomly pulling people over and harrassing them just because they happen to look or talk or dress a certain way, then I agree that profiling should be banned. However, I do think the cops should be able to check on someone's immigration status if that person is being arrested for an actual crime.


Profiling no, but they should not have to wait to arrest someone.
They should be able to question anyone at any time.
Sorry, my rights , Im willing to give up a few.
I have been stopped and searched numerous times because I do look middle eastern and it doesnt bother me.

Sorry, I fit the "profile". I aint mad. Thats life and it dealt a shitty hand but I gotta live with it and the attitude of better safe than sorry because I want my child to grow up in a Free America, not a damn nutcase country like some of these terrorist loving places.

lolol You slay me with the "my rights crap" really .
You want to keep your precious rights but yet you do not want to give up a few for a short time and you do not want to fight those that will strip you of all your rights and probably kill you because being an American, you do not fit into their master race.
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Wally2times
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Username: Wally2times

Post Number: 112
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 10:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh and by the way, have you ever noticed that most that are for the rights for illegals are "rich bleeding hearts"

Wonder why? Because the illegals are their slave work force.
They could care less about the poor American whether they live or starve.
The illegals cost much much less thus increasing their profits 10 fold all the while enjoy those tax breaks only the liberal blue bloods enjoy all the while the illegals cheat the tax system and we poor law abiding schumcks end up completelyt fucked.

hmmmm, still like illegals?
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Barnesfoto
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Username: Barnesfoto

Post Number: 3493
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 11:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We've discussed this on the forum a million times.
One of my ancestors came here without passport or papers...another ancestor's tribe had their land stolen by people with legal documents.
I've had so called "illegals" as neighbors for years. Oddly, the neighbors that I've had problems with have always been ignorant US Citizens.
Streamline the process for people to get citizenship, with a fine to cover costs, and there will be less illegals. That would be the easiest and most cost effective solution to deal with the issue.
Production of our own food would be another way to cut the profits of those who exploit illegals.

But folks like Wally always have an excuse for why they themselves are not doing anything, often cloaked in vague solutions that involve fascist terms like "weeding THEM out"..
and always involve a vague outlines regarding "somebody" doing "something".
Of course, the foaming at the mouth terminology that Wally uses sounds a bit like the hysterical generalizations of terrorist groups like Al-Queda, but we'll leave that for another thread.

Here's an idea. There's an illegal immigrant named Cesar Millan who is training millions of American-Born dogs to behave better...But part of his tactics involve putting backpacks on the dogs...Surely these tactics could be part of a terrorist plot to train our beloved furry friends to transport explosives into crowded urban centers to destroy our way of life!
So perhaps it's time for someone like Wally to start training America's dogs to "weed out" these dangerous people that he rants about.
As for me, I'd rather share a block with "dangerous criminal illegal aliens" than rabid fascist alarmists who tout vague simplistic solutions any day.
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Wally2times
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Username: Wally2times

Post Number: 113
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 11:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ok, since you seem to think Im acting um, in a fascist way.
Lets do this, Im all for amnesty for every person here right now.

Lets seal the borders to anyone not belonging here as of today , make every one here a full fledged %100 American in everyway and not allow anyone else in from now on.

We are free to come and go, but we do not allow anyone else in.

Im gold with that.
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Barnesfoto
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Username: Barnesfoto

Post Number: 3495
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 12:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Seal the borders with what?

Just in case that Wally thinks that I am not concerned about terrorism, what about this guy..an illegal immigrant wanted for blowing up a passenger jet loaded with civilians?

Of course, he has ties to the Reagan-era war criminals...who funded/armed terrorist groups in
places like El Salvador, Nicaragua, Guatemala and Afghanistan...And many of those serving in the Bush Admin are Reagan Admin vets...

Read more on Luis Posada Carriles, who the Bush Admin refuses to deport to Venezuela (He has Venezuelan Citizenship) where he is wanted on charges of terrorism:


WASHINGTON -- The sudden and untimely arrival on U.S. territory of a former Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) asset and admitted terrorist, Luis Posada Carriles, poses an embarrassing challenge to the credibility of the Bush administration's war on terrorism.

Posada, who in an interview with the New York Times seven years ago admitted to organizing a wave of bombings in Cuba in 1997 that killed an Italian tourist and injured 11 others, is best known as the prime suspect in the bombing of a Cubana Airlines flight shortly after it took off from Barbados in October 1976.

The incident, in which all 73 crew members and passengers including teenaged members of Cuba's national fencing team were killed, was the first confirmed mid-air terrorist bombing of a commercial airliner.

Then-President George Bush in 1990 pardoned Orlando Bosch, another Cuban exile opposed to President Fidel Castro and implicated in the plot, overruling a strong U.S. Justice Department opinion that called for Bosch's deportation.

Posada, who also worked for the operation supplying ''Contra'' rebels in Central America in the mid-1980s until the Iran-Contra scandal broke open with the downing of one of its planes, was also convicted of conspiring to assassinate Castro during a 2000 visit to Panama. A Panamanian court sentenced him to eight years in prison in 2004 but he was unexpectedly pardoned by outgoing President Mireya Moscosa last September and flew to Honduras.

”This is a real test of (President) George W. Bush's commitment to fighting terrorism,” said Peter Kornbluh, a Latin American specialist at the non-governmental National Security Archive (NSA). This week, the organization released a series of declassified U.S. documents that detailed Posada's terrorist history and his previous association with the CIA.

”Already, U.S. credibility has been eroded in the six weeks since Posada apparently arrived in the United States without the government doing anything about it,” Kornbluh told IPS Thursday. He said Posada had apparently arrived in south Florida, almost certainly by boat, in late March.

A spokesperson at the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) in Miami, where Posada's attorney, Eduardo Soto, announced April 12 that his client had filed an asylum claim, told IPS that its agents were not looking for Posada because ''no warrant for his arrest has been issued.”

”We do have an interest in talking with him but we don't have a way to exercise jurisdiction without a warrant,” she said.

In deliberating on the case earlier this week, the Venezuelan Supreme Court referred to Posada as ”the author or accomplice of homicide,” adding, ”he must be extradited and judged.”

It is unclear how the Bush administration, whose ties to Venezuela are increasingly fraught, will react, although many analysts said they believe that Washington will not deport him to Caracas.

Some said that administration intermediaries are trying to persuade Posada to leave the U.S. precisely in order to avoid further embarrassment for Bush.

”I think they're trying to persuade him to quietly leave the country,” said Wayne Smith, a Cuba specialist at the Washington-based Center for International Policy (CIP) who served as chief of the U.S. Interest Section in Havana in the late 1970s and early 1980s. ''But will he go along with that? I don't know.”

For now, the administration insists it has no idea where Posada is or even whether he is actually on U.S. soil. At a public appearance earlier this week, the hardline Assistant Secretary of State for Western Hemisphere Affairs, Roger Noriega, ignoring the fact that Posada's lawyer was the first to declare that he was in the United States, charged that more recent charges by Castro himself that Posada was here could be ”inventions.”

In a call-in to a Miami radio station, Bosch, who said he believes Posada should indeed receive asylum, said he had talked with Posada who confirmed that he was in the United States.

”In terms of where he presently is, I think it's fair to say we don't know,” said State Department spokesman Tom Casey Monday. Asked whether the State Department considered Posada to be a terrorist, Casey said the foreign ministry had no ”particular assessment.”

According to the NSA, Posada, who is now 77 years old, joined the U.S. military in 1963 and was recruited by the CIA, which trained him in demolitions. CIA documents posted at the NSA's Web site show that he was terminated as an asset in July 1967 only to be reinstated four months later.

The relationship lasted until 1974, although he retained contact with the agency at least until June 1976, three months before the plane bombing, according to the documents. During that period, he worked as a senior official in the Venezuelan intelligence agency, DISIP.

Another 1972 CIA document describes Posada as a high-level official in charge of demolitions at DISIP. The report noted that Posada had apparently taken CIA explosives supplies to Venezuela and was associated with a Miami mafia figure named Lefty Rosenthal.

A series of 1965 FBI memos obtained by NSA describe Posada's participation in a number of plots involving sabotage and explosives, as well as his financial ties to Jorge Mas Canosa, another anti-Castro activist who would later go on to found and lead the Cuban American National Foundation (CANF).

Plots included efforts to blow up Cuban or Soviet ships in Veracruz, Mexico, and the bombing of the Soviet library in Mexico City. One memo links him to a major plot to overthrow the Guatemalan government, an effort halted by the discovery by U.S. Customs agents of a cache of weapons that included napalm and explosives. During this period, Posada was working with the CIA.

In one of the very first reports on the Oct. 6, 1976 bombing of the Cubana Air flight, a cable from the FBI Venezuelan bureau cites an informant who identified Posada and Bosch as responsible and notes that the two Venezuelan suspects -- who both worked for a Caracas private security firm set up by Posada in 1974 -- had been arrested by police in Barbados.

A follow-up Nov. 2 cable cites information from another Cuban-exile informant for DISIP, Ricardo Morales Navarrete, also known as ”Monkey” Morales, about Posada's participation in planning meetings before the bombing.

Posada was arrested by Venezuelan authorities shortly after the bombing in what one former FBI counter-intelligence official described to the Times earlier this week as a ''preventative measure -- to prevent him from taking or being killed.”

”They knew he had been involved,” said Carter Cornick. ''There was no doubt in anyone's mind, including mine, that he was up to this eyeballs,” in the Air Cubana bombing. Posada then spent the next eight years in jail, punctuated by two inconclusive trials, before escaping a minimum-security facility in 1985 and making his way to Central America.

Posada, who is rumored to be suffering from cancer, now hopes to gain asylum in the United States, posing a particularly delicate problem for a president whose family has long courted anti-Castro militants in the Cuban-American community but who himself has sworn that neither terrorists nor the governments that harbor them should escape punishment.

Source: http://www.commondreams.org/he adlines05/0513-05.htm
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Barnesfoto
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Username: Barnesfoto

Post Number: 3496
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 12:16 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

update on dangerous illegal immigrant Carriles, coddled by one after another Republican Administrations:
http://www.latimes.com/news/na tionworld/world/la-fg-posada10 may10,1,2988477.story
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Wally2times
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Username: Wally2times

Post Number: 114
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 12:23 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

see Barney, I got ya, I dont know where you are actually coming from but one thing I will agree regarding your story and the reason you posted it, is that even the government needs to pay for their crimes. This I agree.

But first lets seal the borders make all here citizens then those criminals wwill be handled by the people.

(Message edited by wally2times on May 14, 2007)
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6nois
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Username: 6nois

Post Number: 230
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 12:26 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is no point to debating this with wally until he calms down. I am not going to argue with you when you are on this strange crazed rampage about vague things that might or might not happen, and then placing the country in a ziploc bag.
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Warrenite84
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Username: Warrenite84

Post Number: 93
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 12:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm with Wally on this one.
Although there are examples on both sides of the fence, wouldn't you rather err on the side of caution?
We have to stop the terrorists 100% of the time. They only have to be successful once.

Sorry to break it to you but the world changed after 9/11. It should have changed after the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993.

Barnesfoto, of course you had more problems with citizens. If I was illegal, I'd lay low and make no waves too.

I do agree the immigration process should be streamlined.

The latest I read was that immigration policy is going to be changed to put greater weight to an educated or skilled applicant instead of the worn out Kennedy plan of familial relations as the screening criteria.

YAY!!!A little something for us for a change.
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Wally2times
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Username: Wally2times

Post Number: 115
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 12:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ok, here ya go. My sentiments exactly. To the letter!

We need a President who will say these things and follow through

------------------------------ ------------------------------ --------------------
Reply to: pers-328827771@craigslist.org
Date: 2007-05-11, 11:48AM EDT


No wonder everyone wants to move to Australia

------------------------------ ------------------------------ --------------------

http://www.snopes.com/politics /religion/australia.asp

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia, as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.

A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty to Australia and her Queen at a special meeting with Prime Minister John Howard, he and his Ministers made it clear that extremists would face a crackdown. Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent to Howard, hinted that some radical clerics could be asked to leave the country if they did not accept that Australia was a secular state, and its laws were made by parliament. "If those are not your values, if you want a country which has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then Australia is not for you", he said on National Television.

"I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws governing people in Australia: one the Australian law and another Islamic law that is false. If you can't agree with parliamentary law, independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the opportunity to go to another country, which practices it, perhaps, then, that's a better option", Costello said.

Asked whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to leave, he said those with dual citizenship could possibly be asked to move to the other country. Education Minister Brendan Nelson later told reporters that Muslims who did not want to accept local values should "clear off. Basically people who don't want to be Australians, and who don't want, to live by Australian values and understand them, well then, they can basically clear off", he said.

Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques.

Quote: "IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians."

"However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the 'politically correct' crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Australia." "However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand." "This idea of Australia being a multi-cultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. And as Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle."

"This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom"

"We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!"

"Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your ne w home, because God is part of our culture."

"We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us."

"If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like "A Fair Go", then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. By all means, keep your culture, but do not force it on others.

"This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom,
'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'."

"If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted."


This should apply to anyone who comes to the United States as well.... regardless of their national point of origin. Enough of this PC bullshit. It's not racism. It's our culture that's at stake. People fought for the rights we have and we're giving them away every day in order to satisfy some romantic notion that we all can "get along" - doing nothing more than diluting our national identity. We can get along... as long as the adoptee doesn't try to change the adopter. It's no different than an adopted child expecting the family to change their values. Wouldn't happen in my home and I doubt that it would happen in yours.

Enough already.
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Barnesfoto
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Username: Barnesfoto

Post Number: 3497
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 1:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"But first lets seal the borders"
With what? Aluminum Foil? Recycled pieces of the Berlin Wall? A Vulcan Force Field? The US Military?

Since I don't live in Australia, I'll say that whatever the Australians decide to do is their business, but I'm a bit suspicious of the comments about Australia being founded as a "Christan" nation, given that (1) The Aborigines, who have lived there for tens of thousand of years, were not Christians and (2) I've always understood that the first White Australians were convicted criminals.
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Wally2times
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Username: Wally2times

Post Number: 116
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 2:05 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Im sorry, what does this have to do with present day?


We can secure our borders anyway we need, whether it be with enough security personal or yes, even build a damn wall.
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Barnesfoto
Member
Username: Barnesfoto

Post Number: 3499
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 2:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm sorry, you posted quotes that seem to be a naive interpretation of the history of Australia, not me.
Frankly, I think that they have it easy, as they are surrounded by an ocean with a large population of deadly Box Jellyfish. But enough about Australia, a country that still recognizes a monarchy that we kicked out over 200 years ago.
Why did you even bring them up?

As for securing the borders, I never realized that it was so easy...let us know if you need to borrow any tools.
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Young_detroiter
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Username: Young_detroiter

Post Number: 195
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 2:56 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wally,

As U.S. citizens continue to watch their right of freedom being removed, when does a citizen say that "enough is enough"?

How can we feel assured that our government will not take away more freedoms than terrorists?

How do we know that the homegrown "terrorists" are not already within our government, limiting our freedoms.

And back to a local level, how will Hispanic/Latino immigration trends to Detroit be affected due to the new ban? Do you think that there will be more Latinos around Detroit?
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Wally2times
Member
Username: Wally2times

Post Number: 117
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 2:59 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

no, it had to do with preserving the countries culture while still being a melting pot by adding to it and without any "one" dominant group but a democracy ran by all living under equality, or at least trying to.

Remember what that is?
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Wally2times
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Username: Wally2times

Post Number: 118
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 3:02 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I really do not care how many latinos or any others of whatever ethnic group are in Detroit as long as they want to be a part of this country and add to its culture instead of trying to change it.

By the way,that means becoming a citizen properly, whatever that outcome will be.

homegrown terrorists need to be weeded out also. Terrorists are our enemy and they must be dealt with no matter what make up they be.

(Message edited by wally2times on May 14, 2007)
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Young_detroiter
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Username: Young_detroiter

Post Number: 199
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 9:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In metro Detroit, immigration plan's economic effect is concern

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20070518/NEW S05/705180364

"Advocates for metro Detroit immigrants are skeptical about a compromise touted by senators Thursday, saying the immigration proposal could hamper Michigan's economy.

"Some said they were cautiously optimistic about parts of the plan, which would affect an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants in the United States, about 150,000 of them in Michigan. But others said the proposal would establish an unequal system that fails to address the economic demands for low-skill labor."
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Mcp001
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Username: Mcp001

Post Number: 2666
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2007 - 8:39 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Aren't these the same people who complained about the MCRI last year?

Where's the difference in what they passed last year and what CC passed earlier this month?

Can you say: hypocrite.

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