  Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 681 Registered: 11-2005 |
So it's been up for, what? A month now? Has the new clock tower atop the old Jeffries housing project grown on anybody yet? At first I thought it was lame. Now I kinda like it. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 2196 Registered: 07-2004 |
It looks funny compared to the other towers, but it's nice to see that the clock has the right time, at least the clock that faces Midtown(East). | ||
Tetsua Member Username: Tetsua Post Number: 1171 Registered: 01-2004 |
I kinda like it. | ||
Rocket_city Member Username: Rocket_city Post Number: 233 Registered: 04-2006 |
It's ok. http://downtownmotown.8k.com/D etroitDevelopment/2007_0421Det Dev04_21_070013.jpg http://downtownmotown.8k.com/D etroitDevelopment/2007_0421Det Dev04_21_070043.jpg | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 979 Registered: 02-2007 |
Hmmmm, does it have any special bells or chimes? | ||
Rocket_city Member Username: Rocket_city Post Number: 236 Registered: 04-2006 |
I believe the saying is "bells and whistles". J/K. I was wondering if it is lit at night. I guess I'll have to go and check when I get home. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5414 Registered: 10-2003 |
Very odd looking, but at least it has a function. That first pic with the MCS and Southwest Detroit industrial background is awesome. | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 2152 Registered: 10-2003 |
It's kind of silly looking from an architectural standpoint. It's not hard at all to see that the buildings are 50s-60s era public housing modernism with mansard roofs slapped on. If that wasn't silly looking enough then they add a clock to the roof. This isn't much different than those EFIS covered party stores or strip malls that try and fake people into thinking they're something fancy. | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1832 Registered: 04-2005 |
now we know where the copper from the Lee Plaza went  | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 982 Registered: 02-2007 |
I'm guessing the answer to my question is "NO" then. What's a clock tower without Bells and Whistles. (Message edited by Urbanize on April 22, 2007) | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 1980 Registered: 12-2005 |
If you twisted either the clock tower or the building 45°, the clock would be visible closer to the structure ... or you could wear a watch. | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 685 Registered: 11-2005 |
It's kind of silly looking from an architectural standpoint. It's not hard at all to see that the buildings are 50s-60s era public housing modernism with mansard roofs slapped on. If that wasn't silly looking enough then they add a clock to the roof. That's why I didn't like it at first, but it's kinda grown on me in that cheezy-but-endearing kind of way. Certainly doesn't make them look any worse than they did before. ... ... Not that that was possible. | ||
Andylinn Member Username: Andylinn Post Number: 365 Registered: 04-2006 |
hey, it looks cheesy, but it looks a HELL of a lot better than those towers used to... | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4166 Registered: 08-2004 |
I think we should coin a new name for that style... "Bleaux Arts" | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5258 Registered: 11-2003 |
Rocket City, "bells and whstles" is a term used to describe a new piece of industrial equipment like a printing press, a steam shovel, or a big-ass truck. Sometimes the adaptive re-use of a building does look stupid, like this case. But what's the alternative? Vacant public housing ruins? Now folks in Canada can look through the Michigan Central Station to see what time it is, eh. It's a good thing. jjaba. | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 3380 Registered: 10-2003 |
Thanks for the chuckle, Jjaba, will they add a rotating restaurant too? | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5417 Registered: 10-2003 |
But, the towers wouldn't have been vacant public housing. They'd been converted over to age-restricted (senior) market-rate housing a few years back, so it's not exactly as if this comical roofing was needed to make them viable. I'm not going to complain, though, because there isn't much you could do to make them look more bland than they already are. | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 1245 Registered: 12-2005 |
little architectural additions like these are sorta like the blue liquid in the bottom of porta johns and RV toilets. They take the smell of shit and make it smell like blue shit. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 821 Registered: 10-2006 |
The mansard roof isn't a bad idea (just turned out to be a bad way of implementing it as it now looks), but that clock on top is a little bit over the top. | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 2153 Registered: 10-2003 |
Jjaba and 56packman win the AIA Detroit 2007 award for architectural criticism! Great lines both of you! Who needs those high-falutin' architectural snobs from the Times and Tribune in NYC and Chicago when we've got two folks right here on DetYES! who can get their point across with words everyone can understand as well as with words that perfectly match the sophistication of the architecture in question. Charlottepaul, kind of an ironic comment there. | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 794 Registered: 11-2003 |
It's highly doubtful that a trained architect was responsible for any part of the decison-making that went into glomming a 19th Century small-town New England clock tower onto a mid-20th Century building designed in a pure Modernist style. It really is a cringe inducing clash of styles. The mansard element to screen the HVAC equipment is executed marginally decently given its lack of ornament as is necessary to complement the mid-century design of the original building. But the clock tower looks like it came from a 4th grade class competition. Yeesh. If the owner/developers really wanted to add a clock feature, an architect adept with mid-century design could surely have executed a better design. The upgrades to these buildings and the new housing units added to this neighborhood are great to see. But the clock? Oy. | ||
Peter Member Username: Peter Post Number: 46 Registered: 02-2007 |
This looks pretty stupid. I did not know that the city was doing anything with these buildings... I thought there was a plan to demolish them. Is this a city run project or what? | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1833 Registered: 04-2005 |
Isn't this the Herb Strather project? | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 63 Registered: 10-2006 |
What the ...? This is horrible. The mansard roof was ridiculous, but this is completely over the top. Please tell me this was not paid for by Housing Commission dollars. What is the point of all this? It isn't market housing, and there's a long waiting list for senior housing. Does some bureaucrat consider this an aesthetic improvement on the streetscape? I don't like Corbusian Towers in the Park, but to stick a funny hat on top is just silly. | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1658 Registered: 11-2003 |
It is sort of silly looking, but... silly is not always a bad thing. I wouldn't say it's ugly, at least. Perhaps it has a bit of post-modern charm? | ||
6nois Member Username: 6nois Post Number: 170 Registered: 11-2006 |
That is just awful. Yeesh. I don't know who was thinking what or smoking what, but that is wrong. It’s like buying a shaggy dog and shaving it and putting the hair on a Chihuahua. | ||
Wirt Member Username: Wirt Post Number: 49 Registered: 12-2005 |
That is soo bad! | ||
Downtown_remix Member Username: Downtown_remix Post Number: 158 Registered: 03-2007 |
ooooh get a life,, this was a nasty ass hell hole, drug infested, killing haven. Now Woodbridge Estates has revamped this "good times" towers to a respectable senior citizen tower. the clock looks new, so get over it. | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 2154 Registered: 10-2003 |
Dougw, If this is an example of post-modern architecture for renovations, this world is in a lot of trouble! Downtown_remix, No one is putting down the rehabilitation of the neighborhood. What we're dissing is the fact that they put who knows how many tens of thousands of dollars into that clock. They could have done without it and invested it into somewhere else on the site (parks, public art, etc.). | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 11507 Registered: 10-2003 |
File the majority of the responses on this thread under Skulker's "DumbfuckistanYes.com." Perhaps the critics need to take a drive through the still existing projects across from Ford Field, as a reminder of just how far the 3 towers in Woodbridge Estates have come. As somebody who has these towers in plain view out his back window, they look 100x better than they did before. Most visitors will easily mistake the painted aluminum roof for aged copper. The clock tower seemed like a perfect fit to me, considering the elevator shaft for on reason or another was higher on that tower. They even added some brick work around the clock tower to implement it. All three buildings, rehabbed or not, still looked like the same old projects until the green roofs and clock were added. Hardly what I would compare to "smells like blue shit." I wonder, what exactly would the critics have suggested for improvements to the buildings, so they didn't look like former projects? | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 64 Registered: 10-2006 |
Sport, they ARE STILL projects. Putting a silly clock on top does not make them less project-like. Why are projects a dirty word? Half the projects in Detroit are for seniors only. Are people worried that some church grannies are going to jump you? Detroit's projects usually look better maintained than the surrounding market-rate housing. (Message edited by crawford on April 23, 2007) | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5259 Registered: 11-2003 |
The Mansard Roof is from France. So is Detroit. The historical architectural vocabulary makes as much sense here as Frank Llyod Wright's prairie houses belonging on the Michigan prairie. "Mansard" is a corruption of Francois Mansart (1598-1666) who designed roofs of this type. In Paris, this style was revived as "French Second Empire" coinciding with the rule of Napolean III (1852-70). The style is also called "General Grant" style, an American hero of the same era. The French were adding these roof treatments hiding an extra floor of occupancy from the tax collectors and zoning officials, and as Supersport notes, the roofs and clock in question, hides ugly-ass mechanical equipment. Whether these are "misguided improvements" or high art depends on your taste and the direction you are driving on the John C. Lodge. For many of us, if that pile wasn't on the expressway, it wouldn't even fucking exist. It must always be said that de-troit is The Paris of the Midwest. So it fits, eh. jjaba, Westsider on the Hamilton Express. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5260 Registered: 11-2003 |
Bvos 2153, Merci! jjaba, tells it like it tis. | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 3819 Registered: 10-2003 |
Not too good because I shot this out the front window of the car on the move, but here is what everyone is talking about.  | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5264 Registered: 11-2003 |
Merci Lowell. Oh, so Parisian! jjaba. | ||
Wirt Member Username: Wirt Post Number: 50 Registered: 12-2005 |
 Now I know why I didn't like that tower! | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5418 Registered: 10-2003 |
I don't believe they are still housing projects. They've been completely renovated (interior and all) into the Woodbridge Senior Apartments, market-rate, age-restricted housing. The 8 units per floor of the former projects were combined into 4 apartment units per floor. The towers are now managed by Premier Property Management, and redeveloped by Park Scripps Associates, a partnership of local developers. Though, they still owned by the Housing Commission. In essence, they've been privatized. (Message edited by lmichigan on April 23, 2007) | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 65 Registered: 10-2006 |
These are all still public housing. There is no market-rate housing in this development. http://www.ci.detroit.mi.us/ho usecomm/pdfs/DHCSsbro2002.pdf They are income-restricted according to Area Median Income and rents are set at 30% of income. These are HUD guidelines and are the same for public housing across America. Again, what is the point of a clocktower and fake roof on public housing? There's a big waitlist for Detroit public housing. I'd like to see the name of the contractor on this job. I bet you there's a link to someone high up in Detroit govt. Are there plans for other fanciful additions to Detroit public housing? How about an Eifel Tower or a Statue of Liberty on the other buildings? | ||
Oilcan_harry Member Username: Oilcan_harry Post Number: 4 Registered: 08-2006 |
Do they do anything in Detroit that the folks on this forum like? This is not meant as a smart ass question really! I'm just kinda new here and not a Detroiter but, it seems everything draws complaints and critcism. The building in question here doesn't look so bad to me. Looks better than the many abandoned and vandalized buildings that are seen on here so often. | ||
Matt Member Username: Matt Post Number: 1181 Registered: 10-2003 |
So if there's no market rate housing in this development, then what's this? http://www.woodbridgeestates.com/index.cfm?method=OurModels (Message edited by matt on April 23, 2007) | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 66 Registered: 10-2006 |
Oilcan, would you prefer a useless Jeffries "top hat", or would you prefer money spent on maintenance, safety, etc. Whether or not the clock looks better than a vacant lot is irrelevant. Matt, that is adjacent Woodbridge Estates, which is market-rate and not affiliated with the Detroit Housing Commission. | ||
Oliverdouglas Member Username: Oliverdouglas Post Number: 82 Registered: 02-2006 |
Oilcan: You're new here, but you catch on quick. | ||
Urbanoutdoors Member Username: Urbanoutdoors Post Number: 250 Registered: 11-2005 |
http://www.modeldmedia.com/dev elopmentnews/clocktwr9107.aspx Heres the modeld story | ||
Leland_palmer Member Username: Leland_palmer Post Number: 296 Registered: 08-2004 |
Here's a pre-installation view of the clock  | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4171 Registered: 08-2004 |
Er um... wasn't the Eifel Tower already done... on the Penobscot Building? | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1841 Registered: 04-2005 |
That clock tower is somewhat reminiscent of the Fort Street Union Depot clock tower.  But nowhere near as cool looking. | ||
Spiritofdetroit Member Username: Spiritofdetroit Post Number: 410 Registered: 11-2006 |
wow, what happened to that, and why? | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1842 Registered: 04-2005 |
read all about it SofD https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/6790/54651.html?11750992 66 it was torn down in the late 70s | ||
Urbanoutdoors Member Username: Urbanoutdoors Post Number: 252 Registered: 11-2005 |
Sad So much history was lost  | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1843 Registered: 04-2005 |
Here is a better pix of the clock, courtesy of Hornwrecker and WSU/VMC from the above link  | ||
Michmeister Member Username: Michmeister Post Number: 167 Registered: 10-2006 |
The clock can hang with the one on the Fort Street Union Depot, it is the rest of the building that sucks. | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 2158 Registered: 10-2003 |
The perspective that the Model D article pic has of the clock tower makes it look even more ridiculous. The clock tower is out of scale to the building in addition to being just a bad design. If you're going to do a roof top clock, do a CLOCK, not some whimpy little thing like what's been put up. (Message edited by bvos on April 24, 2007) | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 11513 Registered: 10-2003 |
Crawford, What's with the cob up your ass? Is it so wrong to want public housing that doesn't look like a pile of shit? Whether you like the roof and clock or not, I can't see how you could argue that it doesn't look better than it did before. | ||
Dds Member Username: Dds Post Number: 217 Registered: 10-2006 |
Have you ever heard the phrase, "Putting a dress on a pig?" | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 67 Registered: 10-2006 |
Supersport, I really do think it looked better before. The "before" looks like generic postwar Corbusian housing. It could be in Hamburg or Haifa. The "after" is a Disneyfied joke. It could only be in America. | ||
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 133 Registered: 08-2006 |
quote: That might be true, but who the hell wants their city to look like a Le Corbusier nightmare or some outer-limits bombed-out shithole in the Middle East? | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4185 Registered: 08-2004 |
Well now we have Le Corbusier meets Salvador Dali... (sans the melted clock face) | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5269 Registered: 11-2003 |
Supersport, post 11513 is a classic. Belongs in HOF. Nobody understands that you now have a clock in your view. No excuses getting to work late, eh. jjaba, LOL. | ||
Kathleen Member Username: Kathleen Post Number: 2281 Registered: 10-2003 |
Kudos to John Gallagher of the Freep and his 5/19 column "Debate is welcome in Detroit in which he focusses on the lively debate in this posting and quotes from the posts by b{swingline}, jjaba, and charlottepaul!!!! You all deserve a pat on the back!!!! "We build cities not just with steel and glass, money and sweat, but with words. Words that we speak and write help form our concept of a city. They let us express the complex realities of what we want our city to become. So when skeptics chide me for my tempered optimism about Detroit architecture, I point to the growing and vigorous debate in this town on the nature and direction of our built environment. All the cities famed for their architecture -- Chicago, New York, you name it -- enjoy vigorous debates about the subject, not to mention a wide range of preservation societies, walking tours, lectures, books and other appreciations of good design. In Detroit, that public discourse on architecture and urban planning used to be rare. There was a time (and not so long ago) when we were supposed to celebrate everything that went up just because it was locally designed and built. Thankfully, those days are gone. Take the new clock tower erected several weeks ago atop one of the former Jeffries Homes towers alongside the Lodge just north of downtown. It's part of the new Woodbridge Estates residential project headed up by Detroit developer Herb Strather. No sooner had crews erected the clock tower than a local Internet site, www.detroityes.com, sported a lively debate on its appropriateness. ..." Full article at: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20070519/BUS INESS04/705190303/1002/BUSINES S | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2782 Registered: 02-2005 |
I wonder how much he plans on quoting Dyes in the future. I wonder what I'd do if my screenname was published in the newspaper. Did Gallagher contact Lowell to in turn contact the people behind the screennames to ask for permission. Of course it is nice to see Dyes get recognition. | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 1318 Registered: 12-2005 |
I noticed he didn't go anywhere near my comment about blue shit. I don't blame him, I'd want to keep my job too. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5330 Registered: 11-2003 |
Mackinaw, exactly. Gallagher never contacted jjaba, this is for sure. Maybe Lowell can explain how we are quoted without permission. Perhaps these jewels are public domain. If jjaba is used to sell newspapers, then pony up with the royalties. jjaba, checking his mailbox for royalty check. | ||
Spiritofdetroit Member Username: Spiritofdetroit Post Number: 484 Registered: 11-2006 |
you are posting on a public forum. duh | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1031 Registered: 10-2006 |
Seems to me that being mentioned in a newspaper article is complimentary, and even more so in this case as the author was stating that what we are doing is a good thing. Doesn't bother me one bit to be published, and furthermore to have the best forum ever recognized once again. Now if only we could get a similar forum down here in Charlotte I could critique the much worse architecture just as vigorously... | ||
Jeduncan Member Username: Jeduncan Post Number: 91 Registered: 11-2006 |
That thing is hideous. It's like putting a cherry on top of a terd. | ||
Jelk Member Username: Jelk Post Number: 4383 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Blow it out your ass. If jjaba doesn't want to be quoted in newspapers than jjaba shouldn't run his mouth in a public venue. Gallagher took your quote off a public website and sited his source. Your post wasn't copyrighted material. Even if it was, Gallagher's column would still protected under Fair Use rules. Hell, if 10% of DY posters quoting material on this Board could adhere to Fair Use rules it would be a miracle. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4352 Registered: 08-2004 |
Why is it that posters with "LK" in their monikers (Jelk, Skulker) are so fuckin' rude to everyone on this forum... have been since day one... Maybe the Mrs. is hiding the Viagra again... Jjaba, our beloved westside "Jewish" forumer, was only half kidding when wants his royalties.... jjaba, did you want the "wholesale" or "retail" slice of your royalties? | ||
Jelk Member Username: Jelk Post Number: 4384 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Because we have higher IQ's than the rest of you people. | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 1753 Registered: 11-2003 |
Jelk---Relax. My goodness. Some things are said in jest. | ||
Jelk Member Username: Jelk Post Number: 4385 Registered: 10-2003 |
I am sure jjaba isn't actually expecting a royalty check but the first part of his post (and Mackinaw's post) don't read as if they are in jest. Ironic that DetroitYES would complain when someone, properly, quotes and sites DY posts after DY participants long record of unethical (and in some cases illegal) re-posting of copyrighted material onto this board. To his credit, Lowell has tried to discourage that behavior. None the less, to complain because John Gallagher (one of Detroit's very best journalists) properly quoted DY posters after countless Gallagher column have been re-posted in their entirety on this board is beyond the pale. Annie Savoy was right: the world belongs to those not cursed with self-awareness. | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 820 Registered: 11-2003 |
It looks like some of our "short-tempered, brusque, playful, sincere, sarcastic, dumb and thoughtful" forummers are trying to make Mr. Gallagher's last point for him. That's OK. He makes a good point, not only about rollicking nature of forums and blogs, but about the contributions that these discussions can make to issues affecting a community. Keep on posting everyone. Jjaba, your check is ready to be picked up. It's at the Freep's East Side bureau office. I hope that's not a problem. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5538 Registered: 10-2003 |
Ha! Good one, Swingline. Jjaba would never make it. | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 745 Registered: 11-2005 |
Jjaba, your check is ready to be picked up. It's at the Freep's East Side bureau office. I hope that's not a problem. Ha, funny. Almost all of the bureaus have closed now. They're down to four: Lansing, D.C., Macomb and Oakland (the downtown office isn't a bureau). Oh, how times have changed for the newspaper biz. | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 1754 Registered: 11-2003 |
As we speak, I know that jjaba is actually on the east side. I mean the far east side, I mean the Far East. I am sure we will hear from him. | ||
Damon Member Username: Damon Post Number: 685 Registered: 11-2003 |
I agree with Jeduncan. It looks awful. When Im driving on the Lodge, I have to look east just to avoid looking at it. |
