  Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 375 Registered: 10-2003 |
I'm sorry about this, but I just have to rant on this for a second. I grew up in the Lakes Area (West Bloomfield/White Lake/Commerce, etc.) and I have to say those townships have absolutely choked themselves with population. None of the roads are straight because they all wind around lakes. None of the roads can be widened to accomodate the traffic. There are no expressways or even boulevards/avenues, or anyplace to put one, yet they have allowed new housing and strip malls to be crammed into every square inch of land. Rush hour is a joke, you can drive from downtown Detroit to the end of M-5 in Commerce/Walled Lake in 40 minutes, but it will take you another 45 minutes to get to M-59. This used to be such a lovely area, now it is a catastrophic nightmare. What in the world were they thinking? Well, obviously money. Ok, rant over. | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 1181 Registered: 08-2006 |
Have you ever been to the suburbs of northern Virginia? They're just as bad as this, probably worse. The traffic is a giant ass pain, the roads tiny and windey. I assume northern Virginia was beautiful before people moved in. I still think its beautiful, but it is losing that as more and more McMansions get built. | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 686 Registered: 02-2007 |
"Have you ever been to the suburbs of northern Virginia? They're just as bad as this, probably worse. The traffic is a giant ass pain, the roads tiny and windey. I assume northern Virginia was beautiful before people moved in. I still think its beautiful, but it is losing that as more and more McMansions get built." I have a relative that works for Washington Dulles and lives in one of those McMansions out in London county. There are a beaut though. They also have a classy grocer. Of course, they also say it has one of the worst traffic jams in the country. 10 years ago, it was all farmland. Mike Jordan grew up out there somewhere. | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 1185 Registered: 08-2006 |
My best friend lives in Mclean, pretty close by there. The quality of the new homes is pretty high. Excellent brick and stone work. Isn't the traffic just a giant ass pain though? | ||
Titancub Member Username: Titancub Post Number: 37 Registered: 08-2006 |
Unorganized sprawling suburban growth amongst many small/medium sized municipalities results in the mess you've described. Its a damn shame for sure as a more efficient layout and land planning of region would really provide huge benefits. Is it too late? Sadly it probably is as each of the suburbs completes its in-fill and desperation to develop every square inch to support their inefficient and redundant services. Bold leaders and actions will need to step up to right the ship, its possible, however will take moving mountains I'm afraid. | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 688 Registered: 02-2007 |
"Isn't the traffic just a giant ass pain though?" I'm not sure. I was only out there during the Holidays. We did get caught in a slight jam when heading into the beltway. However, they do have better attractions in their suburbs (aerospace museum, grocers, Shopping Destinations, Airports). | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 8909 Registered: 12-2003 |
Another great sprawl nightmare is Atlanta, north of the ring west of the Peachtree Freeway...hell ANYWHERE near that road...their rush hour is pure hell. It happens all over where farmland townships wanna grow to be cities...and grab those tax dollars to play with the big cats. Always remember that growth is the basest positive assumption in the capitalist system...ALL-consuming organism that it has, um, grown to be. Greed, pride, near-sightedness...all the basics of mere human nature...beautiful, isn't it, that we developed an entire economic system and bastardized a well-designed political system to nothing more than a supporting role exacerbating it?! Must be a day for rants... | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2654 Registered: 02-2005 |
Johnlodge, it's just something you'll have to deal with. That area seems to be the exception, because in every other sprawling area, the state has lavishly provided abundant funds for road widening. All our tax dollars go to the outer burbs while our roads here in Detroit and the inner ring crumble. If I had my way the state would stop subsidizing sprawl by cutting all road building/widening projects, and focusing on current-road maintenance. The sad thing about your situation up there is that the population density rarely even surpasses 1,000/square mile (compare to 4,000-10,000/mile in Detroit and the inner ring), where we rarely have traffic jams...you are suffering from poor planning rather than overcrowding. Even sadder is the fact that you still need to drive everywhere up there; even though there are tons of new strip malls, everything is still distanced from residential areas. And I'm guessing there are few areas with sidewalks. With all the heavy traffic concentrated on certain roads, it's also possible that your air pollution up there is worse that closer to the city. There have been numerous studies on the health risks of sprawling areas. It's a shame. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 376 Registered: 10-2003 |
Just to clarify, I don't live there now. Just when I was younger. But I do have to drive out there to visit family sometimes. The problem with the lakes area is that there is no way to create an infrastructure that can handle the population. The lakes dictate where the roads can be, and in some cases, how wide. Union Lake road has a section where there are lakes on either side of it, it is little more than a causeway. And unfortunately, it is the major North South artery in the area, since lakes prevent any other roads from heading North or South for very long. Asides from physically altering the landscape, no amount of money thrown at those roads can solve anything. They have doomed themselves to eternal traffic and hour-long commutes in pursuit of tax dollars. I now live in Ferndale, where many more people can live together in a smaller area and not sit in traffic jams for an hour trying to go 1 mile down the road. Especially since a lot of the time you don't even need a car. Johnlodge, chomping on a Ferndale Burger at Bart's, then walking home. | ||
Yaktown Member Username: Yaktown Post Number: 149 Registered: 02-2006 |
John, I also grew up in Commerce Twp, the far north end of it to be exact. My parents still live there too. When we first moved there in 1978, it was pretty much rural. We lived on a dirt road with no sidewalks! Unfortunately, the demise of the township was the M-5 extension. I would have preferred that it not happen but growing up there we all knew it would someday come to fruition. It seems the people on the township board applauded this very mess. What's even worse is that the M-5 ends at Pontiac Trail, a two-lane road! Poor planning all around. John, do you still use the term Union Lake when describing where you grew up? | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 377 Registered: 10-2003 |
Yaktown, on occasion I'll let it slip out. I would have to disagree with you that the M-5 extension was the demise of the township, however. Traffic at the Pontiac Trail/Haggerty intersection was just as bad before it was built. The only difference was that Haggerty was basically a solid parking lot from its Northern termination all the way to 12 Mile between 4-7pm. All those people still needed to get to White Lake or Waterford or M-59, but were forced down Haggerty to do it. Always makes me sad driving down M-5 in the spring and seeing the deer and geese standing in the meridian wondering where the #@$% their homes went. (Message edited by johnlodge on April 07, 2007) | ||
Detroit313 Member Username: Detroit313 Post Number: 304 Registered: 02-2006 |
I like the way Charles Barkley referred to Phoenix, Arizona; Atlanta and San Diego in my book too. It will always be a big town not a big city. Detroit can lose another 400,000 citizens and always be known as a big city. It is just the way it was planned. | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 694 Registered: 02-2007 |
Perception is the only reason Detroit is losing population. | ||
Detroit313 Member Username: Detroit313 Post Number: 306 Registered: 02-2006 |
Totally agree, well and the city services and schools system need to improve. 313 | ||
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 123 Registered: 08-2006 |
I grew up near the three-corner border between Sylvan Lake, Bloomfield Twp. and West Bloomfield. The place is packed now, way more than when I was a child. The roads are bad, but Dodge Park No. 4 on Cass Lake is packed -- PACKED -- during the summer months. | ||
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 124 Registered: 08-2006 |
The truth is this place was 'overpopulated' way back in the '50s when these neighborhoods were first constructed. The development of Upper Long Lake (West Bloomfield - Bloomfield Township) from 1949-2005 | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 379 Registered: 10-2003 |
Just think, Sam Raimi and Bruce Campbell filmed their earliest films in the abundant forests of that area. Well, not so abundant anymore. | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 2027 Registered: 11-2004 |
ridiculous | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 1206 Registered: 12-2005 |
That area drives me nuts. The roads all twist and turn around the lakes. If you rarely go there you're trying to find someone's street off of one of the SEVEN Commerce roads they have and some Dixie-flag decal wearing F-150 is barreling on your ass at 50 mph. Typical Oakland county roads. The cities/townships issued building permit after building permit for 50 years and never did anything about the roads. Two lane blacktop in 1957 when it was summer cottages, farms and orchards, 2007--there's subdivisions,apartments, condos, trailer parks and still--two lane blacktop roads. They have traffic lights now, though. Wayne county did a much better job with their roads. | ||
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 125 Registered: 08-2006 |
Thanks for the interesting thread, I love hearing people's comments about my home region. These problems are things I have noticed since growing up here. I've always felt that because these lakes are so 'containing' that smaller, denser planning would make more sense than sprawl and strip malls. Keep in mind one of the reasons of non-cohesion of this region is that it is divided by some seven separate municipalities: West Bloomfield, Commerce Twp, Waterford, Sylvan Lake, Keego Harbor, Orchard Lake Village, and Bloomfield Twp. Again a result of the suburbanization of once-separated rural townships and small villages. Ideally the lakes should be contained within one large municipality, "Bloomfield Lakes" or something of the sort, but this would never happen. | ||
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 126 Registered: 08-2006 |
Also packman, not sure if your stereotypes hold up for most of this region. Orchard Lake, Bloomfield Twp, that wedge of WB near Pontiac, etc are all pretty ritzy and really beautiful. The farther you get from Detroit's center (Waterford, Union Lake, Commerce) the more you get those Dixie-flag-wavin' types. (Message edited by gsgeorge on April 07, 2007) | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 1208 Registered: 12-2005 |
I am aware. The main focus of my comments was the communities you list. Orchard Lake does have its trailer-tucky at the bend in Orchard lake, just before Cass lake road. | ||
Fareastsider Member Username: Fareastsider Post Number: 328 Registered: 08-2006 |
Not only is it hard to widen the roads everyone out there will fight it to retain the "rural flavor" They fight any traffic study or widening plan out there. I-275 was supposed to cut through there and connect to I-75 in Springfield Twp. It is bad out there you can drive miles and see no stores or sidewalks. In that area barely any subs have sidewalks. It is a nice area but to many people are out there now trying to live a seemingly rural lifestyle. | ||
Superdave Member Username: Superdave Post Number: 8 Registered: 03-2007 |
i live in lakes area. maybe we don't want the quick off highway access to get to us. makes it harder for those fleeing detroit to find us. i moved out here 10 years ago because of its ruralness. now have to wait to make a left out of my street watching a relentless line of cars at 6:15am. yes we have hillbillies. can't help that. thought they were plowing snow here but it was marlboro cigarette butts. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 5767 Registered: 02-2004 |
Suburban sprawl in the lakes area leads to more traffic jams in small country roads, McMansions and bix box stores and obesity. Nature would be disturbed by the progress of man. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 381 Registered: 10-2003 |
Another thing that cracks me up about this region are the lakes themselves. When I think of boating, I think of a nice, relaxing day of drifting about, laying out on your boat, maybe some fishing and suntanning. Put a boat onto Union Lake on a nice day in the summer, and you may as well be driving down 696 at rush hour. It is about the furthest thing from relaxing you can imagine. Great comments, glad my rant could spur some conversation on the matter. | ||
Cmubryan Member Username: Cmubryan Post Number: 418 Registered: 11-2003 |
I grew up on the south end of West Bloomfield, about 3-5 miles south of the main "Lakes area" that is discussed here. I was just as close to Southfield as I was to the nearest lake. I went to WB schools. The kids from our area referred to the portion of West Bloomfield bordering the lakes as BFE. Mainly the area surrounding the big lakes on the edge of Keego Harbor, Sylvan Lake, Waterford). The interesting thing I found was that the typical southender was very different compared to the typical BFEr. If someone was from "BFE" at school, we knew what part of West Bloomfield they were from. A lot of times there were major cultural differences between BFEers and south-end kids. (Message edited by cmubryan on April 08, 2007) (Message edited by cmubryan on April 08, 2007) | ||
B2b76 Member Username: B2b76 Post Number: 1 Registered: 04-2007 |
Hello All, I've been a long time reader (2 years or so) but never chimed in before. I'm not much of an online chatter but I love the city so you all have always kept my attention. Anyway, I grew up behind "Morey's Golf Course" in "Union Lake" before moving to Milford. I spent half my teen years floating around white lake in a drunken haze. It's crazy on those lakes. There is nothing relaxing about being out there and it's only a matter of time before someone dies out there. I'm amazed it dosen't happen more often and yes you are right, the roads are as bad as the lakes. | ||
Beatsworking Member Username: Beatsworking Post Number: 60 Registered: 08-2004 |
I grew up in the aforementioned BFE. My dad bought the house I grew up in on Cass Lake (just south of Waterford) in the mid 70's for just under $40,000. He was attracted to the rural-ness of the area. I remember 4-wheeling in the woods across from my neighborhood in the mid 80's. Those woods are 4 phases of Pulte subs now that popped up over 10 years. That's the story for most of that area, plus a lot more money now. I still enjoy the lakes though. On the weekdays they're all mellow. I still spend Summer Sunday afternoons on Upper Straits (doesn't have a public boat launch). That's fun. Too bad they ruined that area by overbuilding. Welcome B2b76. Certainly familiar with your old stomping grounds. | ||
Ventura67 Member Username: Ventura67 Post Number: 118 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hey John Lodge, Funny you would rant about this. Every time I look at a map of the Detroit area I always wish that someone with a clear imagination would have annexed every square inch of those lake lands 60 to 80 years ago to become state lands and eventually a huge state recreation area, much like but much bigger than Pinckney, Highland or Holly Sate Rec Areas (which are pretty small and discontinuous). That way the beauty that area must have had could be enjoyed by all, not just the relative few who can afford homes there, destroying public access and the natural beauty in the process. One might first think of the tax base that would be missing from the exclusion of such extravagant lake front homes but the whole region would have been far better off with a massive park system that would have accomodated people from all walks of life. Not to mention the impact of a large green belt and a clean watershed, two things metro Detroit knows little about. Guess that's why I tend to vacation in the UP or Canada, though. By the way, if I were ruler of the universe the first thing I'd banish is jet skis on bodies of water less than 100 acres!!! | ||
Fareastsider Member Username: Fareastsider Post Number: 330 Registered: 08-2006 |
good idea! Living here on Lake Saint Clair I always thought they used the term "lake" a bit to often on some small bodies of water. there was a parkway plan in the early 20th century that was supposed to run for miles along the Detroit River and along Lake Saint Clair. That would have been nice! It was just an idea at most though! (Message edited by fareastsider on April 08, 2007) | ||
Jrvass Member Username: Jrvass Post Number: 70 Registered: 01-2007 |
Can someone send me a 2 Dixie flag stickers for my car & truck (2 more for my 2 boats?). When I go to the next KKK meeting, maybe they'll buy me a "necktie" to celebrate my nice "tan". I live in Waterford on a lake and sympathize with Johnlodge. I remember the areas he speaks of from the 70's/80's/today. If they are going to hand out building permits like Easter Candy (and my house is older than me by 20 years) they should tax developers/new home buyers for the sprawl and infrastructure roads/sewers) that they contribute to. Insane! James | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 414 Registered: 03-2006 |
You can all bash the lakes area all you want, and it is getting a little congested, but it is really a victim of its success. I know its hard for you to believe that some people don't want to live in an urban area, but many do not. The folks out here pay plenty of taxes and most communities are doing fine financially, unlike Detroit. Say what you will about the "hillbillies" out here but the crime rates are low, the schools are good and the lakes are beautiful and relaxing, despite the ignorant comments. I haven't noticed any Klan members or seen any Dixie flags either, but the sad fact that you haters have to face is that a person of any race is safer in Howell, Milford or Walled Lake than in the city of Detroit. People don't get gunned down while out jogging or walking like they do in the city. | ||
Johnnny5 Member Username: Johnnny5 Post Number: 471 Registered: 06-2005 |
Actually Ventura there is a large portion of the "Lakes Area" that was set aside and protected. Proud Lake Recreation Area is over 4000 acres and extends from Union Lake all the way into Milford; and Highland Recreation Area (over 5000 acres) extends from White Lake into parts of Highland and Milford. The funny thing is the same people we have to thank for saving that land from development are the ones we can blame for the development in the rest of the area (The Ford and Dodge families donated much of the land for the Recreation areas, they also built the cars which allowed everyone to live out here =) | ||
Jerome81 Member Username: Jerome81 Post Number: 1343 Registered: 11-2003 |
Well, the good news is that the clogging traffic prevents more people from cramming the area. If you can't get anywhere quickly, you're not gonna go. If people can't get to work in an hour, they're not going to live up there and work in Utica, Southfield or Detroit. Should they widen the roads/install freeways, just makes it easier for people to keep moving up there, since their commutes are suddenly shorter. Worst thing that killed metro detroit is the web of freeways. At most, Detroit should have gotten I94, I75 and MAYBE I96. The rest should never have been built. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 382 Registered: 10-2003 |
Perfectgentleman, Take it easy buddy. That's my home area too, and although there may have been one or two comments on the type of people there, mostly not. Those comments are obviously ill-informed and should just be ignored. Yes, there are people who don't want to live in an Urban environment and that's fine. But waiting 20 minutes to make a left onto Union Lake road does not feel that "rural" anymore. I have to agree with Ventura that not NEARLY enough of this area was set aside as park land. This was one of the most beautiful areas in metro Detroit, and they have set us aside only tiny parcels of land (Marsh Bank Park, Bloomer Park, the Dodge Parks) to be preserved to enjoy nature. Cmuryan, unfortunately, the people you were making fun of for living in BFE (myself included) simply didn't have as much money as you, living in S. West Bloomfield. That's probably why you were able to tell they were from that area, since they weren't sporting $300 shoes, Z. Cavariccis and the like. These kids were often ridiculed and shunned because they were in the West Bloomfield school district and attended classes with the children of doctors and lawyers. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 383 Registered: 10-2003 |
PS, wow did I ever date myself with the Z. Cavariccis statement. Oops. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 417 Registered: 03-2006 |
In a free country, where one of the founding principles is private ownership, which the US still is as of now, you cannot artificially force people to live an area they do not prefer. The freeways were built in response to development occurring in outlying areas, they were not the cause of it. A robust highway system is essential to the economic expansion of any region. Thank God there are alternatives to residing in Detroit while still living in the general area, if this were not the case far more people would have moved away years ago and thousands of people who commute into the city every day and contribute to Detroit's economy would not be here at all. | ||
Cmubryan Member Username: Cmubryan Post Number: 419 Registered: 11-2003 |
Johnlodge, I was never making fun of anyone in my previous post, please re-read. I was merely stating there were differences. Trust me, I didn't drive an expensive car or have $300 dollar shoes. In fact more of my friends were from BFE then the south-end. | ||
Exmotowner Member Username: Exmotowner Post Number: 171 Registered: 06-2005 |
Hey Johnlodge, I've got to chime in a bit here. I grew up in what they now call "The Pleasant Lake Highlands" (snicker) 15 and halstead area. When I was growing up all the roads in that neighborhood were DIRT Like Halstead is now (Halstead, last time I checked is a "Natural Beauty Road")and they still havent paved that as far as I know. When I was growing up I worked for Sherwin Stables and Roys ranch which covered from 15/halstead to Walnut Lk Rd to 15/Haggerty. From Drake to Haggerty used to be Walled Lake. Now its West Bloomfield. I can see where there would be problem with traffic coming and going around there. There was NOTHING around there except for the little neighborhood of Plesant lake. Now its filled with McMansions. Im sure over by Union lake and that area are filled in with them too. As far as traffic jams go though? I VOTE FOR ATLANTA! It is the epitomy of GRIDLOCK at rush hour! You better plan your day well around it if you can. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 2330 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: quote: And ironically, in the 1980s, Atlanta anticipated lots of population growth, and built more lane-miles of freeway per capita than any other metropolitan area. The result is the mess you see now, where companies refuse to locate or expand in Greater Atlanta. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 388 Registered: 10-2003 |
Exmotowner, bad news for you, Halstead isn't dirt anywhere anymore. Wow you've been out quite a while! Meadowbrook road is a completely straight, paved road. Used to be my favorite dirt road anywhere. 13 mile is a flat paved road, no more fun hills. That whole area is completely filled to the brim with McMansions now. | ||
Cmubryan Member Username: Cmubryan Post Number: 420 Registered: 11-2003 |
Johnlodge, Halsted is STILL a dirt road between 14 Mile and Walnut Lake Road. | ||
Douglasm Member Username: Douglasm Post Number: 811 Registered: 10-2003 |
You know, that's one reason why I hesitate to visit. There used to be a little boat rental at the corner of Orchard Lake Road and Indian Trail. The chances of it being there now are...... | ||
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 127 Registered: 08-2006 |
quote: ...zilch. But you can get boats over at Dodge Park 4 on Cass Lake. Orchard got a little uptight after seeing Cass Lake inundated by northern Oakland County types (not to continue the stereotype debate, but that's what they think). There's a public boat launch but no more rental. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 391 Registered: 10-2003 |
"Johnlodge, Halsted is STILL a dirt road between 14 Mile and Walnut Lake Road." Wow, so it is. That's amazing. Still, I really miss Meadowbrook between 13 and 12 mile. That road used to be SO cool. The way it twisted and turned through the marshes, with the trees hanging over it everywhere. And there was that one spooky house that looked like it had a housefire on the top floor and was never fixed. | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 1326 Registered: 11-2005 |
quote: Not completely. There is open land around this place: http://www.msue.msu.edu/portal /default.cfm?pageset_id=28728 | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 402 Registered: 10-2003 |
Yes, that agricultural center on the corner of 12 mile and Meadowbrook. That's been there as long as I can remember, not sure if it was always owned by MSU or not. | ||
Fareastsider Member Username: Fareastsider Post Number: 331 Registered: 08-2006 |
That gravel stretch of Halsted is a typical Oakland "country road" from the gravel road it is surrounded by trees and makes you feel like you are on a desolate country road. But you can see 100 feet into the woods that they are a buffer for all the Mcmansions that are behind the trees. They probably keep the road gravel so it feel more rural. I have to admit I can see why people want to live out there it is a nice part of the region. You need alot of money though to live there now. | ||
Jonnyfive Member Username: Jonnyfive Post Number: 59 Registered: 03-2007 |
I also grew up in this lakes area, West side of West Bloomfield, near Haggerty and Richardson. My parents moved from Northwest Detroit (7 and Lahser) in '78 to a house in West Bloomfield that had once sat in the path of Northwestern Highway and was moved to its current location rather than be demolished. My summertime memories growing up include the constant popping of guns at one of the gun clubs or the constant wine of jet skis on Middle Straits Lake. I have marveled over the years at just how poor the regional planning has been. When my parents moved out there it was lots of forest and dirt road. I can remember sitting on my front lawn one summer with the rest of the neighbors, watching our dirt road get paved. My elementary school was surrounded on three sides by 100 acres of forest. The dirt roads are gone. The forest surrounding my former elementary school has been completely mowed down to build more subdivisions. There is a silly stretch of highway that shoots north from the 96/696/275 interchange called M-5 that just dumps onto pontiac trail. The traffic on haggerty and union lake, north bound, starting at about 2:30 or 3:00 pm is disgusting. It's the worst traffic jam you've ever seen, every day of the year. So many houses are now crammed onto these tiny lakes that the water is absolutely disgusting. The runoff from yard applications, urine, motor oil, etc. has made these once beautiful lakes into disgusting mud pits. I spent the first 19 years of my life in that area (82-2001) and I have no love for it. The neighborhood was pleasant but mind numbing. I'm currently working on getting my parents to move back to the city, where I currently reside. On a side note, I'd heard that proud lake was being parcelled and sold to developers. I actually read about it in the Spinal Column (for those in the know) a year or two ago. | ||
Jfried Member Username: Jfried Post Number: 953 Registered: 11-2003 |
more bullshit from danindc "The result is the mess you see now, where companies refuse to locate or expand in Greater Atlanta." do you have anything to back this up? | ||
Jfried Member Username: Jfried Post Number: 954 Registered: 11-2003 |
sorry to threadjack, but danindc's know it all attitude is getting to me EXPANSION MANAGEMENT MAGAZINE'S “America's 50 Hottest Cities for Business Expansion & Relocation” 1. Nashville, TN 2. Phoenix, AZ 3. ATLANTA, GA FORTUNE MAGAZINE “Top Cities with the Most Fortune 500 Headquarters” 1. New York 44 2.Houston 23 3. ATLANTA 14 SITE SELECTION MAGAZINE’S “Top Ten Metros” By 2005 Number of Projects 1.Chicago-Naperville-Joliet, IL-IN-WI 2.Dallas-Ft. Worth-Arlington, TX 3.Houston-Baytown-Sugarland, TX 4.Detroit-Warren-Livonia, MI 5. ATLANTA-SANDY SPRINGS-MARIETTA, GA CNN MONEY.com/BUSINESS 2.0 “Ten Hot Cities for Job Growth” 1.Las Vegas35.5% 2.Orlando 28.3% 3.Riverside 26.7% 4.Austin24.7% 5.Phoenix 24.3% 6.Jacksonville20.8% 7. Tampa 19.7% 8. Dallas 19.4% 9.Charlotte19.0% 10.ATLANTA 18.8% EWEEK Magazine “Beyond the Valley: 10 Blooming U.S. Cities for Tech” 1.Seattle 2.ATLANTA 3.Boston 4.Washington DC | ||
Exmotowner Member Username: Exmotowner Post Number: 186 Registered: 06-2005 |
“America's 50 Hottest Cities for Business Expansion & Relocation” 1. Nashville, TN 2. Phoenix, AZ 3. ATLANTA, GA Nashville is GROWING BIG time! There is so much construction starting this year its amazing. They are starting the Signature tower (4th largest skyscraper in the country, the Westin on lower broadway, 2 new huge condo building downtown, a new intercontentinal hotel on west end ave. The new Nashville Sounds stadium on the river has been nixed though. And they are erecting some new art across the river from downtown that is suppose to "alter the nashville skyline". They have expanded all the roads all they can but we do have a problem with traffic here too as we really have no mass transit. They have one line running and others in the works but thats yet to come. | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 779 Registered: 02-2007 |
WE neither have expansion or considered for relocation. However, we do have structure and the actual city feel. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 2335 Registered: 10-2003 |
You're looking at a bunch of meaningless numbers and stats. Why don't you try reading the business section of the newspaper sometime? There was a rather large company that I can't remember right now (Bell South?) that decided its only realistic option, if it were to stay in Atlanta, was to consolidate its operations in a central location convenient to public transportation. Joni-Mitchell-atcha. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 414 Registered: 10-2003 |
Johnnyfive tells it like it is. Proud Lake recreational area was one of the last decent sized conservation areas in the lakes. With that gone, the area will truly have ruined itself. | ||
Johnnny5 Member Username: Johnnny5 Post Number: 475 Registered: 06-2005 |
Jonnyfive????? Hey that's my DY handle? This is going to get confusing. By the way Commerce and the Michigan DNR have reached a tenative agreement to save the portion of land that "Jonnyfive" was talking about. It is actually only about 700 acreas out of the 4800 acres contained in Proud Lake Rec. (Message edited by Johnnny5 on April 11, 2007) | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 417 Registered: 10-2003 |
I'm so confused, my brain is going to SHORT CIRCUIT. Ahahahaha, I slay me. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 2337 Registered: 10-2003 |
This is what happens when you pave everything over in the name of "progress". It's a shame, really, because north Georgia is actually quite nice--or was. The scary thing with the lakes area is that people will complain that it's "too dense" or "too built-out", when nothing could be further from the truth. It just wasn't built very intelligently. City's bid for corporate HQ lost in traffic Atlanta Business Chronicle - March 16, 2007 by Ryan Mahoney Staff writer Atlanta's traffic has gotten so bad that it helped cost the region a Fortune 500 headquarters. Just over a year ago, MeadWestvaco Corp. (NYSE: MWV), a $6.5 billion packaging conglomerate formerly based in Stamford, Conn., decided on Richmond, Va., for its new $100 million base of operations and up to 1,000 headquarters jobs. http://atlanta.bizjournals.com /atlanta/stories/2007/03/19/st ory2.html Is Atlanta's traffic solution a 3-day weekend? Top state officials consider offering tax credit for alternatives to reduce traffic Atlanta Business Chronicle - April 6, 2007 by Ryan Mahoney Staff writer Two top state lawmakers believe the solution to Atlanta's congestion may be a three-day weekend. They want as many metro area employers as possible to consider having their workers come in just four days a week -- or nine days every two weeks -- working an extra hour or two each day to make up for the time off. http://atlanta.bizjournals.com /atlanta/stories/2007/04/09/st ory1.html | ||
Jfried Member Username: Jfried Post Number: 956 Registered: 11-2003 |
dan - you're such an a-hole. you read a few articles and you spout off as if what you have read is the absolute, only truth. yeah, the traffic, and sprawl are huge problems in northern georgia, but you make a ridiculously extreme statement that "companies now REFUSE to locate, or expand in the region." if you prefaced your rants with "I think," or "it seems" once in a while you wouldn't come off as such a know it all prick. and maybe then we wouldn't have to call you out so much of the time. and, yeah, I believe the "meaningless stats" put out by professional & trade organizations that are involved in relocation & expansion, rather than sporadic, alarmist, sensationalized "news" sources. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 2340 Registered: 10-2003 |
Atlanta Business Journal is actually reputable. It's only read by developers, brokers, bankers, real estate agents, contractors, and the design community. You know--people who tend to read alarmist, sensationalized bullshit. And MeadWestvaco actually DID REFUSE to locate in Atlanta, just in case you can't read. If that makes me an asshole, so be it. Your numbers don't mean crap. And as anyone reasonable on this forum will tell you, city rankings are for shit. For all we know, there are businesses included in the "Atlanta" numbers that are closer to Tennessee than to downtown Atlanta. | ||
Jfried Member Username: Jfried Post Number: 957 Registered: 11-2003 |
I have high enough reading comprehension to understand that just because it is reported that a few businesses decide not to expand/ relocate does not necessarily mean that ALL, or even a majority of businesses are making the same choices. Which is what you implies. Most city ranking are subjective, but then there are those such as site selection magazine that are based on solid numbers including # of businesses, square footage, and $ invested. Atlanta consistently ranks near the top, and the trend shows no signs of changing. For you to imply that there is a business crisis in Atlanta resulting from sprawl is dishonest, and at best just part of your ridiculous, on-going rant that anything other that neo-tradtional, high design, walkable development is shit. And, yes, I do think it makes you an ass. | ||
Mikie Member Username: Mikie Post Number: 43 Registered: 06-2006 |
Back to the original post, I have to agree with Johnlodge that the rush hour traffic is terrible. I’ve been living here for 8 years now and it seems to get worst every year! P.S. Anyone want to buy a nice house on a lake in Waterford so I can move back home to the city K |
