  Danjo444 Member Username: Danjo444 Post Number: 11 Registered: 02-2007 |
I'm told it's a Wabash diesel locomotive at Fort Street Station 1962. Can someone please confirm or correct. Love this pic, with the Penobscot glowing in the background.  | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1674 Registered: 04-2005 |
that would be the PRR station at Fort and Second. Great photo | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 870 Registered: 08-2006 |
That is a good one! IS that the Wabash Cannonball Express? How many stations were there back in the Day. I know MC featured Pennsylvania, Michigan Central, and Ney York Central RR passenger trips, and that Brush Street was Grand Trunk Western and Canadian National. I have a neat old rail road atlas from 1964 somewhere in my old room at my parents place I would love to lay my hands on again if I could find it. Im sure it would have some of this info. I am growing my collection of Railroadinia. I have a Penn Central Car shop brake pressure gauge, and a N&W switch lock with key. | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1675 Registered: 04-2005 |
A great bit of background about the station. https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/6790/54651.html?11557775 62 BTW yes that is a Wabash EMD F(3?) (Message edited by PSIP on March 28, 2007) | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 2921 Registered: 10-2004 |
quote: The tracks stopped west of Third. For the station to be at Second, the old Fort Street Presbyterian Church east of Third would have had much unwanted through traffic. | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1676 Registered: 04-2005 |
sorry,, 3rd street. oops Thanks LY BTW, it was called the Fort Street Union Depot | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1677 Registered: 04-2005 |
here is a Wabash F7 in Daylight  http://www.trainweb.org/ Note: all of the F series looked pretty much the same. | ||
Danjo444 Member Username: Danjo444 Post Number: 12 Registered: 02-2007 |
Thanks all...great info. Appreciated! Danjo | ||
Blueidone Member Username: Blueidone Post Number: 8 Registered: 03-2007 |
Great train pic. Learning so much about Detroit from this site! (same Danjo444 from aol? Blui715 here! If so, nice to chat again!) | ||
Danjo444 Member Username: Danjo444 Post Number: 14 Registered: 02-2007 |
Hiya Blu, yes, it's me. Nice to see a familiar "face." No longer have AOL...now Comcast email. Yes, this is a great site. These folks really know their stuff. Still love playing guitar (badly), trains, history and riding my HD FLSTCi two wheeler around the lake. I recently rode the waterway north from Toledo, all the way to Port Huron. Still do some distance riding as well. Last summer rode from Deeeetroit to the Rockies and back. Nice to "see" you again! Danjo | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 871 Registered: 08-2006 |
I'm loving those old threads PSIP posted, next to old cars, old railroads are my junior obsession. I just took the kid to the Steam RailRoad museum in Owosso last weekend. I understand they have long rail excursions, some even up to Grayling, starting in May. I highly recommend it, as I understand the Pere Marquette 1225 is going offline for costly maintenance repairs,(new steam tubes) in 2010. Who knows if it will be back online after that, need for money and the availability of it being what it is. | ||
Danjo444 Member Username: Danjo444 Post Number: 15 Registered: 02-2007 |
Camb, me too. Hey, if you want to ride a nice steam train, check out Little River Railroad in Coldwater. http://www.littleriverrailroad .com/ They have train "robberies", Civil War weekends, other cool events. Went twice last year. You ride the train from Coldwater east to Quincy and back. (You have enough time in Quincy to grab a cold one on old US 12.) Support your local steam trains...nothing like the scent of burning coal, and the sound of the bell. Oh, and that lonesome whistle... | ||
Blueidone Member Username: Blueidone Post Number: 9 Registered: 03-2007 |
Danjo..What a coincidence that we should "meet" again here! Keep the great pics coming! I have obtained this new interest in things old and historical. Maybe cuz I'm getting older? Cambrian..thanks for the info. Sounds like a great weekend thing to do with my grandkids. | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1679 Registered: 04-2005 |
Danjo, if you want to see some really cool RR stuff, take a trip thru PA. via Altoona, Scranton, Strasburg. You will never want to come back. Hit Orbisonia also, and see the East Broad Top. Altoona really is mecca for RR history. Horseshoe curve is cool.  http://www.ebtrr.com/ http://www.railroadcity.com/ http://www.nps.gov/stea/ http://www.rrmuseumpa.org/ http://www.strasburgrailroad.com/ you might want to spend a night at the Caboose Motel http://www.redcaboosemotel.com/scenery.html | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 872 Registered: 08-2006 |
http://www.mstrp.com/ | ||
Lstjstl Member Username: Lstjstl Post Number: 1 Registered: 03-2007 |
The train in question is Wabash #3, the "St. Louis Limited." The Limited was the overnight Wabash run to St. Louis; the famous "Wabash Cannonball" was its daytime counterpart. Fort Street Union was home to the trains of the Wabash (and successor Norfolk and Western after 1964), the Pere Marquette (Chesapeake and Ohio after 1947) the Baltimore and Ohio from 1964 on and the Pennsylvania Railroad until that line ended its Detroit passenger operations in 1959. Fort Street remained in operation until the start of Amtrak in the spring of 1971. It was demolished in the winter of 1974. Michigan Central was used by the Michigan Central and its parent, New York Central, as well as the Baltimore and Ohio prior to 1964, and the Canadian Pacific. Brush Street Station, near the site of the Renaissance Center, hosted the Grand Trunk Western and Canadian National. Oh, and the locomotive in the photograph is an EMD E-8. The "E" series were primarily passenger engines; "F" series engines were mostly used in freight applications, although they were sometimes used to haul passenger trains in mountainous areas. | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 6219 Registered: 10-2003 |
Here's one in Ontario http://www.steamtrain.com/ | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1680 Registered: 04-2005 |
Thanks Lstjstl, I knew I would get corrected by trying to ident a locomotive.  If anyone wants to see Horseshoe Curve in action via webcam http://64.84.107.59/view/index .shtml | ||
Busterwmu Member Username: Busterwmu Post Number: 369 Registered: 09-2004 |
Yep, A Wabash passenger train at FSUD. Early 1960s would be correct, as the blue scheme with white pinstripes was the new scheme at the time. The lead locomotive is an EMD E8A. Pere Marquette (later C&O) and the PRR also used this station. I think the actual Wabash Cannonball was a morning westbound departure, so this is probably another train or the eastbound backed in. I'll see if I can find some more info Thanks for sharing!! | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 873 Registered: 08-2006 |
Here's a museum in Mt Clemens, not checked it out yet, but I will shortly! I rode the horseshoe curve in October of '96. Amtrak was giving people rides as a part of Altoona Railroad days festival. Fun Stuff! http://www.michigantransitmuse um.org/ | ||
Hardhat Member Username: Hardhat Post Number: 198 Registered: 10-2003 |
Lstjstl: Sounds like you're going to be a valuable addition to team DetroitYes. Welcome aboard. | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1681 Registered: 04-2005 |
I love this HSC webcam. In one hour I have seen 3 Westbound Piggybacks, 1 coal drag and a mixed consist + 1 Helper team shuttle back east. (3 NS and 1 Conrail) Too bad its so jerky and no sound. The noise at HSC is amazing, the strain of the engines and squealing of the wheels. I was surprised the coal drag didn't have pushers. I guess these new engines have enough balls to get up the hill. (Message edited by PSIP on March 28, 2007) | ||
Danjo444 Member Username: Danjo444 Post Number: 19 Registered: 02-2007 |
Great info from everyone above. Appreciated. Thanks all. | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 1655 Registered: 11-2003 |
I have an EMD E-8 Diesel in HO scale, a B and O by Life Like. A really nice looking unit. Love those "port holes." Danjo--Don't forget the National Model Train convention at Cobo Hall this July. Gotta be there to believe it. You want trains, you got 'em, just a little smaller than those you see on this thread. | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 572 Registered: 11-2005 |
that would be the PRR station at Fort and Second. Huh? The Detroit News is there and was there during this time. There was nowhere for the rails to run. Are you sure? | ||
Danjo444 Member Username: Danjo444 Post Number: 22 Registered: 02-2007 |
The Rock...sounds great. Have info? Is there a link? I know there are smaller shows at schools here and there. If you have info on those, please let me know as well. I'm a G-scaler, and have both freight and passenger trains. Nothing elaborate, just fun stuff. | ||
Douglasm Member Username: Douglasm Post Number: 793 Registered: 10-2003 |
Here's the one I'm waiting for. Doyle McCormick, he of the rebuilding of the Southern Pacific 4-8-4 #4449 for use on the American Freedom Train--and who keeps it running to this day--is rebuilding an ex Santa Fe #62/Deleware & Hudson #18 Alco PA-1 and has repainted it as Nickle Plate Road #190. A picture of it at the Brooklyn Avenue roundhouse in Portland, Ore where it's being rebuilt: http://www.nkp190.com/progress /images/190pa016.jpg Looks real sharp. Doyle is from Conneaut, Ohio and a NKP fan, that's why it's painted that way and not in SP Daylight or SF Warbonnet colors. It would look right at home at Fort Street..... | ||
Bob_cosgrove Member Username: Bob_cosgrove Post Number: 479 Registered: 03-2005 |
The name of the station pictured is Fort Street Union Depot. It served the C&O (Pere Marquette), B&O, PRR. Wabash and perhaps the DT&I, although its station was on West Jefferson on the Rouge River before Henry Ford built the Short Cut Canal. The PRR was a late comer to Detroit arriving in 1920 at Henry Ford's instigation. Bob Cosgrove | ||
Bob_cosgrove Member Username: Bob_cosgrove Post Number: 480 Registered: 03-2005 |
The name of the station pictured is Fort Street Union Depot. It served the C&O (Pere Marquette), B&O, PRR. Wabash and perhaps the DT&I, although its station was on West Jefferson on the Rouge River before Henry Ford built the Short Cut Canal. The PRR was a late comer to Detroit arriving in 1920 at Henry Ford's instigation. Bob Cosgrove | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 2927 Registered: 10-2004 |
One of the better accounts of the PRR around Detroit can be found on MichiganRailroads.com. There's another report about the details concerning the costs and construction of the trestle undertaken by the PRR somewhere online, but I don't have its URL handy. | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 1656 Registered: 11-2003 |
For those interested in the National Model Railroad Association convention this July in Detroit, click on to www.nmra.com and you have their web site. I think the time that the general public is allowed into the convention to view all the models, exhibits etc. is at the end of the week, July 27 and 28. If you are a member, you get it all week. | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 1167 Registered: 12-2005 |
Channeling "Trainman"--"if Detroit still had these trains today all of the social ills would never have happened, the office buildings downtown would have never gone empty and the city would still be populated. Vote now for mass transit." | ||
Douglasm Member Username: Douglasm Post Number: 794 Registered: 10-2003 |
My bad. For some reason I had the NKP coming into Detroit. A PA would still look good at Fort Street, though..... | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1687 Registered: 04-2005 |
Us Lionel guys were always envious of the Flyer guys because they had that great looking Alco PA. | ||
Ookpik Member Username: Ookpik Post Number: 162 Registered: 01-2007 |
 A pic for the train guys. Built by Lima in 1917. Michigan Central RR # 8927. Sold to New York Central in 1936 and renumbered 7527. Retired/Scrapped 1955. | ||
Busterwmu Member Username: Busterwmu Post Number: 370 Registered: 09-2004 |
Wabash had some PA-1s which looked somewhat similar to the NKP PAs. I actually found a photo very similar to the original of a night view of a Wabash PA-1 at Fort Street Union Depot. Another super cool so-sad-its-gone-now photo. Click the link below: http://wabash-railroad.com/ima ges/Diesels/ALCO/WB01053O-w.jp g | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 1658 Registered: 11-2003 |
If you want to get a REAL feel for this thread, listen to Willie Nelson's recording of "The City of New Orleans" while reading it from top to bottom. Not quite the sound of a AT-6 radial engine on start up, or the #2 engine of a B-26 and that Pratt and Whitney double wasp 2800, but SO close to both. 7th heaven,baby!! The Rock (almost a kid again) | ||
Danjo444 Member Username: Danjo444 Post Number: 23 Registered: 02-2007 |
Rock, I second that emotion! Love those trains -- and train songs -- for so many reasons. My great, great... uncle Pete was a train engineer engineer from about 1920-1935, and during the Great Depression he would take his 1919 "The Gibson" archtop guitar into bars and honkeytonks along the route when stopped to earn extra nickels. Glad to say I inherited the the guitar. Me and my buddies are (slowly) working on a home recording project of train songs in his honor. We'll probably take about 20 songs from the following list. (Forgive me..it's long. Just a sketchy list, complete with abbreviations and mistakes. But some great songs, many of which give me goosebumps when I hear them. This Train is Bound for Glory - W. and A. Guthrie Nine Hundred Miles – W. Guthrie Last Train (for Glory) – A. Guthrie Silver Ribbons – Waylon Jennings I've got a thing about Trains - Johnny Cash Choo Choo Mama – 10 Years After Ghost Train – Justin Sullivan Midnight Train – Vince Gill Mainliner – Little Esther There's a Train, Train Song – Holmes Bros. That Train – Jerry Butler Choo Choo Ch' Boogie - Louis Jordan Texas & Pacific (TP Special) – Louis Jordan Lonesome Train Whistle – Rev. Horton Heat Train to Nowhere – Savoy Brown Train Hoppin' – Jack Johnson ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Whole Albums 1. My Love Affair with Trains – Merle Haggard 2. Tracks & Trains – Hank Snow 3. Railroad Man – Hank Snow Album Samplers 1. The Jimmie Rogers Story – Hank Snow 2. Forty Great Folk Songs Box LP set 3. The Last Ride – Hank Snow Lonesome Whistle Blowin’- Hank W. Wabash Cannonball – Hank Snow Train Train – Blackfoot You Pass me By – Hank Freight Loader – Clapton, Page, Beck Train Man – Paul Butterfield Blues Band Last Car of the Train – The Fugue Death of a Train – Daniel Lanois Train Kept a Rollin'–Yardbirds, Aerosmith Night Train – Steve Winwood She Caught the Katy – Taj Mahal Mean Old Frisco Blues – Clapton Down bound Train – Chuck Berry Train Midnight Special - Odetta Hear My Train A Comin'–Hendrix (elec) New Delhi Freight Train-Little Feat Train Insane – Trains Can’t Stop All down the Line – Rolling Stones Delaware Stomp – G Thoroughgood Wreck at Kiowa Creek – Brian Burns Lincoln Town – John Hyatt C'mon Train – Lloyd George Runaway Train – Soul Asylum Funeral Train – U. Utah Phillips This Train is bound for Glory - Joel Rafael Ramblin' Reckless Hobo-Joel Rafael 5:15 – Chris Isaak Downbound Train–Bruce Springsteen Lonesome Train – JJ Cale Silver Train – Stones Glendale Train – New Riders of the Purple Sage Mystery Train – Junior Parker, Elvis I'm Movin' On–Hank Snow, Les Paul/M.Ford /Ray Charles My Baby thinks he's a Train-Roseanne Cash Blue RR Train – Doc Watson Detroit City – Bobby Bare Stop that Train – The Wailers King of the Road – Roger Miller Folsom Prison Blues – Johnny Cash One after 909 – Beatles Casey Jones – Woody Guthrie Sunnyland – Elmore James End of the Line – Wilburys Last Train to Clarksville-Monkees City of New Orleans – Arlo Guthrie People Get Ready–Curtis Mayfield Smokestack Lightnin' – Howlin' Wolf Trains – Al Stewart Desperados Waiting for a Train-Guy Clark Special Streamline – Bukka White Tain Don't Leave – Richard Thompson All Aboard – Muddy Waters Train Song – Dick Siegel Ramblin' Blues – R. Johnson, R. Rogers Last/Steam Powered Trains – Kinks Empire State Express – Rory Ghallager, Son House Love in Vain – RJ, Stones Orange Blossom Special – J. Cash Freedom Train – Lenny Kravitz Train #2-J Spencer Blues Whiskey Train – Procol Harem Me and Bobby McGee– Kristofrson Train Round the Bend-Velvet Und. Worried Man Blues–Cisco Houston Train in Vain – Clash Refrigerator Car – Spin Doctors Rock Island Line – Johnny Cash Jesse James - Grandpa Jones Night Train – J Brown/B Womack Whait Train – Paul Kelly Catch a Train – Free Everybody Loves a Train-LLobos Jumping s-elses Train – Cure Groovy Train – The Farm Train-Uncle Tupelo Crazy Train – Ozzie Osbourne Long Black Train- Lee Hazelwood At the SoundoftheSignalBell-Jesters Train Long Suffering- Nick Cave Dixie Flyer – Randy Newmann Last Fair Deal Gone – R. Johnson Mean Eyed Cat – Johnny Cash Train of Memories – Kathy Mattea Fast Train-Bobby Parker Ghost Train – Counting Crows Say Yes 2 Mich.-Sufjan Stevens Here comes your man – Pixies Dead Grammas on a Trn-Thin W Rope Two Trains Running – PBBB That Train Don't Stop…Los Lobos Broke Down Engine-BlindWillieMc Night Train - Ken Patrick Hey Porter - Johnny Cash Midnight Special – CCR Train to Skaville - Ethiopians Engine 54 - Ethiopians Black Train - Gun Club Train in G Major- Lindisfarne Hellbound Train – Savoy Brown I Often Dream of Trains R Hitchcock Slow Train – Dylan Unholy Train – Damnation TX Train Underwater – Bright Eyes Jump That Train – Foghat Long Train Running – Doobie Bros. Train a Travlin – Dylan Party Train – Love Tractor This Train Won't Stop – Traffic Nobody cares about railroad-H Nilsson Last Train to London – ELO Stay Away (White Train) – The Fall Tied to the Tracks-Treat Her Right Freight Train Boogie–Doc Watson Freight Train, Freight Train- PPM Georgia on a Fast Train-BilyJo Shaver Waitin for the Ghost Train--Madness Steel Rails - Alison Krause Five Hundred Miles – Kingston 3 Click Clack – Captain Beefheart All Night Train – Allman Brothers Night Train to Memphis–JLeeLewis Long Twin Silver Line – Bob Seger Rock 'n' Roll Pain Train – Kid Rock Can’t Stop a Train – Derailers Stop this train – Kevin Ayers Gone Dead Train – Nazareth Train of Love – J.Cash, Dylan (live) Slow train - Staple Singers, Dylan Still a Fool – Muddy Waters Fast Train – Van Morrison Many a Man Killed on theRRJoeGlazer Choo Choo – Memphis Slim Big Train - Tommy Faile Blue Train - Johnny Cash Mail Train - Billy Joe Tucker This Train - O.C. Holt Devil's Train - Eric Sardinas Rasta Train - Raphael Green Graveyard Train – CCR It takes a lot to laugh…- Dylan Backsliders - Train Wreck Train - Train Too Too Train Blues-Big Bill Broonzy Black Train - Randy Thacker Telegraph Road- Dire Straights Train Ride - Lyle Lovett Train Fare Blues – Muddy Rail Song, Swingline-Adrian Belew Railroadin’ Some – Rory Block Freight Train – Elizabeth Cotton Mourning Train – Wallflowers Leavin’ Train – Gillian Welch Train- Lonnie Brooks Rumble Train- Mighty Lemon Drops Station to Station – Bowie Train Song- Tom Waits Let’s ChooChoo 2 Idaho–Phil Harris Travelin' Blues–BlindWillieMcTell Choo Choo Train – The Box Tops Dr Zhivago’s Train – Nicolai Dunger Waitin for a Train JL Lewis/JCash Let the Train Whistle Blow-J Cash Railroad Song - Lynyrd Skynyrd Railroad Lady -- Jimmy Buffett Cowboy Troy Chicken With Train Jenny Dreamed of Trains-Vince Gill Downtown Train-Waits,Stewart At The Station - Joe Walsh Lonesome Train-J Turner TBone Freight Train Blues – Bob Dylan Little Black Train – W Guthrie Train Train – Billy Bragg Daddy What's A TrainUtah Phillips Glory Train - Don Baker Driver 8 - R.E.M. Big Train (Memphis)- Fogerty Midnight Flyer – Eagles Engine Engine #9 – Roger Miller Train Time – Cream Hitchcock Railway – Joe Cocker Homeward Bound – S&Garfunkel Train Man – Bob Seger Let it Rock – Chuck Berry Southern Pacific – Neil Young Queen of the Rails–U. Utah Phillips Here Comes That Train-Eddie Bond Tuesday's Gone - Lynyrd Skynyrd Smoke along the track– Dwight Yokam | ||
Aarne_frobom Member Username: Aarne_frobom Post Number: 50 Registered: 10-2005 |
Wow. That's some list of train songs, but you missed maybe the greatest railroad-related album of all: "Good Though," by Utah Phillips from the late 1970's. About half the songs are originals by Phillips. This includes "Tolono," a perfectly evocative song about riding the last Wabash Cannonball from Fort Street Union Depot into Indiana on April 30, 1971. On that date I was on the last-ever GTW "Maple Leaf" between East Lansing and Battle Creek. Where was everybody on the day before Amtrak? Phillips, incidentally, is still occasionally touring, singing songs of union organizing and other causes, and proselytizing for the IWW. | ||
Danjo444 Member Username: Danjo444 Post Number: 24 Registered: 02-2007 |
Cool, Aarne. Is that the album with Funeral Train, Daddy What's a Train, and Queen of the Rails? Those are on the list above, but I'll definitely add the album, and get a hold of it. Thanks! | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 877 Registered: 08-2006 |
Don't forget Johnny Cash's Rock Island Line! | ||
Quinn Member Username: Quinn Post Number: 1221 Registered: 01-2005 |
That's one of my new favorite photos of Detroit...how cool! Thanks Danjo. Imagine having more than one major train station in the city. So cool. | ||
Danjo444 Member Username: Danjo444 Post Number: 25 Registered: 02-2007 |
It's on there Camb...you're right. A must have. Quinn, Mine too! I have a larger version, but I could not post due to size restrictions. If you're comfortable posting your email addy, I can send to you (as long as you don't use for commercial purposes, out of respect for copyright) | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 1659 Registered: 11-2003 |
Danjo--You get Uncle Pete's archtop Gibson, and I will grab my 000-21 Martin acoustical, and we can knock off a chorus of 'Bama Bound. I say it's time to add sound to these threads, Lowell. | ||
Danjo444 Member Username: Danjo444 Post Number: 26 Registered: 02-2007 |
raht own, raht owwnnn, Rock. Hope you're better 'n me on the six strings. | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 764 Registered: 11-2003 |
I have a question for the train guys. I know that the NYC operated passenger trains from Detroit north to Pontiac, Flint, Saginaw, Bay City and up to Mackinaw City through the mid 1960's. Did these trains depart and arrive at the Michigan Central station on Michigan Ave. or at some other station in Detroit? | ||
Lstjstl Member Username: Lstjstl Post Number: 2 Registered: 03-2007 |
The trains to northern Michigan did indeed use Michigan Central station. They'd head west out of the depot and then swing north near the Cadillac Clark Street plant, roll past GM building and cross Eight Mile just east of Mound Road. After running through Warren, they'd head through Rochester and then on toward Saginaw and thence up the middle of the state. Until the late 1940s or early 1950s there was even through-car service to Marquette via the railroad ferry across the Straits of Mackinac. For that matter, Bay City had through Pullman car service to New York via Detroit into the 1950s as well. | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 1661 Registered: 11-2003 |
I took the train from Detroit to Mackinaw City a few times in the mid-50's. They had a run out of Detroit that left late on a Friday afternoon and ( if you were lucky),arrived in MC around midnight. It was advertised as a way to get you to the North country without the long drive before I-75 was built. The Club car was very active. | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 750 Registered: 12-2005 |
That NYC passenger train service to northern Michigan used self-propelled Budd cars and IIRC, it was called the "Bee-liner". As a pre-teen, our family lived about one-quarter mile from the tracks and I can remember hearing its distinctive horn (and watching it off in the distance through our front window) as the northbound Bee-liner approached the 10 Mile Road crossing every weekday afternoon sometime between 5 and 6 pm. I think it ran until the mid-1960's. For some reason, I don't remember what time the daily southbound train came through that stretch. | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1699 Registered: 04-2005 |
MikeG did it look like this? They are called RDC's  | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 751 Registered: 12-2005 |
Yes, that's it! Besides the orange and white stripes, it also had a flashing, revolving yellow light on the roof that was very visible from a distance. | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1700 Registered: 04-2005 |
RDC's traveled some rarely used routes, most without warning lights or gates. Every attempt was made to make them visible to crossing traffic. Since this was the Jet Age, NYC tried to incorporate the new technology into their system. Behold the Jet Powered RJC!  It is reported it reached a top speed of 183.681 MPH but took forever to get to that speed. Also the seats needed a serious cleaning and disinfectant after each run. It never made it out of the research lab. (Message edited by PSIP on March 29, 2007) | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 1663 Registered: 11-2003 |
WOW--I can't honestly recall what "pulled us" from Detroit to Mackinaw City as the memory fails ( my Gawd, that was a good 50 years ago), but it seems to me the name of the train was the "Timberliner" or something like that. It only ran during the summer and I only took the Fri afternoon train. When I got to MC, my folks would meet me, but the journey was not yet over. We then drove back to Lewiston where our cabin was located. That took another hour and a half. I wish the train had a stop in Gaylord, but that was not the case. | ||
Busterwmu Member Username: Busterwmu Post Number: 371 Registered: 09-2004 |
Rock, I think you are remembering the MICHIGAN TIMBERLINER, which ran Friday afternoons up to Mackinaw and then Sunday afternoons back south on summer weekends only. Apparently there were Pullmans on this train, too. Power was normally a GP9 after the mid 50s', I understand. This train ran into the mid 1960s, at least. This was a real train and not the Beeliner, but the Beeliner was the best known passenger run up the Bay City Line. A great book to own is TRACKSIDE AROUND DETROIT DOWNRIVER 1946-1976 WITH EMERY GULASH by Jerry A. Pinkepank, and Morning Sun Books. The price is definitely worth the excellent all colors photos and the great historical research. I'll see if I can find out more about the Beeliner. In the meantime, I can see my copy of TrackSide Detroit on the shelf and can answer any questions from the period if the book holds the answers | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 1667 Registered: 11-2003 |
Well for some reason it does my heart good to know I was not pulled by the RDC! But I gotta admit that even the GP9 was not the prettiest of diesels to hit the rails. I would have much preferred a good old GT 4-8-4. I have seen some of those Gulash books. He is a real railroad historian ( and photographer). And I remember the days, before the Big Mac was built, when the Sainte Marie and the Chief Wawatam carried the freight cars out of MC to St. Ignace. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5108 Registered: 11-2003 |
New York Central Wolverine and Twilight Limited leaving from Michigan Central Station on Track2. Making stops at: Dearborn Ann Arbor Jackson Albion Marshall Battle Creek Kalamazoo Dowagiac Niles Cassopolis Michigan City Gary Hammond 63rd Street Chicago, LaSalle Station. All Aboard, dining car in rear. Immediate seating. ALL ABOARD!!! Jackson | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 890 Registered: 08-2006 |
You can catch all those exact stops today if you take the Amtrak. Sorry no MC Station departure. Royal Oak will have to do. I recommend it, even if you're just riding from Pontiac to Dearborn. Seeing Detroit from the train is the coolest! | ||
Gargoyle Member Username: Gargoyle Post Number: 60 Registered: 04-2006 |
How about "I've Been Working On the Railroad"? "House of the Rising Sun" Sorry for the negative bump... | ||
Douglasm Member Username: Douglasm Post Number: 796 Registered: 10-2003 |
No Chicago/LaSalle Street Station, either. Everything goes into and/or out of Union Station unless it's METRA. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5110 Registered: 11-2003 |
Thanks for the update, Douglasm. It's been a few yrs. back since jjaba took a steam train out of the MCS. jjaba, Old timey Westsider. | ||
Douglasm Member Username: Douglasm Post Number: 798 Registered: 10-2003 |
A little research was in order here. If you took a NYC "steam train" out of MCS for Chicago, you probably landed at Central Station. The NYC didn't move to LaSalle until 1957. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 927 Registered: 11-2003 |
The MC and Big Four trains moved to LaSalle. The other NYC trains were already there. | ||
Flyingj Member Username: Flyingj Post Number: 8 Registered: 08-2006 |
You know the song was around 60 or 70 years before the Wabash named the St. Louis-Detroit train after it(if you listen to the lyrics the W.C. was a train that went everywhere) Every railroad that could come to Detroit DID come to Detroit because back in the day this town was Money, one thing I miss is they've gotten rid of(swiped?) all the old "fallen flag" logo signs on the tracks running over the I-75...like that giant Norfolk & Western, or that cool New York Central logo they quit using in the late 1950's...Grand Trunk's was meh, same with Conrail I like the Detroit & Mackinac stuff(how far South did they run? were their tracks along thge GTW's?) & enjoyed seeing the Detroit and Toledo Shoreline yards on trips to Florida though | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5113 Registered: 11-2003 |
Cambrian, does your AMTRAK train stop at 63rd Street anymore or must all Chicago passengers go into the Loop today from Detroit? jjaba. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 893 Registered: 02-2006 |
The last Amtrak stop is Hammond, IN, if I remember correctly, and not all trains stop there. The ROW that Amtrak currently uses has a flyover over the Dan Ryan at about 63rd St., so there is no stop there. In fact, the only station on 63rd (aside from CTA) is the Metra Electric which stops at 63rd in the vicinity of Stony Island. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5122 Registered: 11-2003 |
As you know, several lines had 63rd St. stops in the old days. Passengers would get off there in a vacant wasteland and relatives who were sent to meet you would go to the wrong station. It was terrible to wait in such a strange place and no be picked up. Trains leaving Chicago would pick-up passengers there also. No short-hop passengers were allowed off the trains. jjaba thinks there were about 5 train lines with separate stations along 63rd St. in Chicago back then. For sure, the Detroit NYC trains made a stop. jjaba used it from Detroit and from Kalamazoo in the 1940s to 1960s. jjaba, riding the NYC from the MCS. | ||
Douglasm Member Username: Douglasm Post Number: 799 Registered: 10-2003 |
Jjaba.... The NYC, Pennsylvania and Rock Island used Englewood (63rd Street). For what it's worth, the active terminals in Chicago are LaSalle (METRA), Ogilvie aka North Western Terminal (METRA- ex. C&NW), Union (Amtrak) and Randolph Street (METRA, South Shore - ex. Illinois Central). The head buildings of both Randolph Street and North Western Terminal are both gone..... | ||
Bob_cosgrove Member Username: Bob_cosgrove Post Number: 484 Registered: 03-2005 |
Judging by the number of respondents who have identified themselves as either railfans,historians, etc. Here's some information concerning this thread you may find of interest: 1.)First, the New York Central didn't run through Pontiac, that was the Grand Trunk Western. 2. Second, the NYC #M-497 Budd Company (that's the same Budd as was located in Detroit, but their car building facility was in Red Lion, Pa.)RDC-3 with the two jet engines off a B-36 set the world's speed record, still the U.S. speed record, in 1968 near Bryan, Ohio west of Toledo on what is one the longest stretches of straight track in the U.S. The engineer was Don Wetzel of the NYC Collinwood labs in Cleveland, who spoke at the Michigan Central District of the New York Central System Historical Society meeting at the Detroit Historical museum three years ago. 3.) The 9th Michigan Railroad History Conference will be Saturday November 10th in the Owosso (Michigan) Health System Memorial Hospital autorium with an Afterglow and visit to the Steam Railroading Institute (Michigan State Trust for Railway Preservation/Project 1225) museum and locomotive repair shop. That's the home of former Pere Marquette/C&O 1225 which was used for the Polar Express art in the recent movie by the title. I'll post conference details on a new thread in the next week or so. Bob Cosgrove Glancy Trains Curator, Detroit Historical Museum | ||
Bob_cosgrove Member Username: Bob_cosgrove Post Number: 485 Registered: 03-2005 |
 He's a photo of Don Wetzel when he was with the New York Central's laboratories at Collinwood Yard in Cleveland, Bob Cosgrove | ||
Detroit313 Member Username: Detroit313 Post Number: 303 Registered: 02-2006 |
WOW.313 | ||
Douglasm Member Username: Douglasm Post Number: 800 Registered: 10-2003 |
There's an online book covering the topic by Hank Morris with Don Wetzel that the Midwest High Speed Rail Association posted on their website last week. It runs 44 pages with pictures, titled "The Flight Of The M-497. You can print it out (or read it) at www.midwesthsr.org Click on Library. It's the top posting on the library page. I just found out about it courtesy of a posting on www.railroadforums.com | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 671 Registered: 12-2006 |
No more stops at Marshall, Cassopolis, Gary, 63rd, and the final stop is at Union Station. Cambrian, I do have to agree that seeing Detroit via train is awesome. Went from New Center to Chicago a month ago and it was interesting to see the west side via train. Now if they could just speed the train up between Detroit and Dearborn (stupid track conditions...) | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5126 Registered: 11-2003 |
Scs100, thanks for the update. jjaba will figure out to get to Cassopolis, Michigan another way. jjaba's father once tried to give directions to Cassopolis, gave up trying to spell it, and said, "Oh what the hell, meet me in Niles." jjaba, family heirloom joke. | ||
Bob_cosgrove Member Username: Bob_cosgrove Post Number: 486 Registered: 03-2005 |
No the train doesn't stop in Marshall anymore,unless you were on the join Bluewater Michigan Chapter National Railway Historical Society and Detroit Historical Society excursions to the Marshall Historic Home Tour in 2005 and 2006 aboard Amtrak. Bob Cosgrove Glancy Trains Curator, Detroit Historical Museum | ||
Bob_cosgrove Member Username: Bob_cosgrove Post Number: 487 Registered: 03-2005 |
No the train doesn't stop in Marshall anymore,unless you were on the join Bluewater Michigan Chapter National Railway Historical Society and Detroit Historical Society excursions to the Marshall Historic Home Tour in 2005 and 2006 aboard Amtrak. Bob Cosgrove Glancy Trains Curator, Detroit Historical Museum | ||
Busterwmu Member Username: Busterwmu Post Number: 372 Registered: 09-2004 |
Look closely at the front windows on the "cab" of that M-497. Look familiar, EMD E and F unit fans? Perhaps like the the numberboards on that Wabash 1189 F7? Correct you would be 63rd street in Chicago was known as Englewood and that is where the late afternoon race would begin on the parallel PRR and NYC lines as the Broadway Limited and 20th Century Ltd were scheduled to depart eastbound at the same time every day. Rock Island also had a stop here, and I recall another line did too, Nickel Plate maybe? As another side note, apparently the old terminal of Dearborn Station (of Chicago) is still standing, devoid of tracks, now in use as a shopping mall? Dearborn, MI, of course, had a quaint station in the Michigan Ave/Monroe St area which was demolished in the late 50s and that was the end of that. I'll be on Amtrak's Twilight Ltd. (I know they're all "wolverines" now but I prefer the old names) later this week coming in for the Easter Holiday. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5131 Registered: 11-2003 |
Didn't the Twilight Limited start at the same minute from Chicago and Detroit? Around 4:30pm? That would be arrival at Kalamazoo at the same time. Oy veyesmere, that must have been a scene. Not a problem today, trains never run on time. Great post 372 Busterwmu. You described Englewood outbound trains perfectly. All the trainmen had white starched uniforms, pressed pants, and stood tall ready for the long journey. No commuters allowed off the trains at Englewood outbound. jjaba, Station stop, Englewood, 63rd street, boarding only. Englewood. | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 1672 Registered: 11-2003 |
"Will passengers please refrain, From flushing toilets while the train, Is waiting in the station to pull out." A great ballad, wmu. jjaba is fired up. Maybe you can use your influence and get him a job as a telegraph operator at the Kalamazoo station. The thought of jjaba and a one-way telegraph is one for the rails, kinda scarey, actually. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5146 Registered: 11-2003 |
Listen to the jingle the rumble and the roar as she glides along the woodland oe'r the hills and by the shore. Hear the rush of the mighty engine hear the lonesome hobos call he's riding through the jungle on the WABASH Cannon ball. Now the Western states are dandies so the Southern people say from Chicago and St. Louis and Peoria by the way. To the lakes of Minnesota where the rippling waters flow No chances to be taken on the WABASH Cannon ball. (With credit to Roy Acuff.) jjaba. | ||
Busterwmu Member Username: Busterwmu Post Number: 373 Registered: 09-2004 |
Actually, with the new Amtrak Schedules effective April 2, the Twilight Limited's (354 eastbound and 355 westbound) under Amtrak have a good chance of ending up at Kalamazoo at the same time, providing 355 is about a half hour late for their 8:56 arrival here and 354 is on time coming east for their 9:30 arrival. Throw in the high speed west of Kalamazoo and 354 is often 10 minutes early to Kalamazoo. Still, they will never both be in the station at the same time. It's still double track, but imagine the confusion of passengers when two trains are in the station. Having a locomotive on each end only complicates things :P I am always amused to see the people boarding a train for Detroit and looking TOWARD Detroit for their coming train. Then it sneaks up behind them. Good times. One train is held just outside the station for the first to complete their work before pulling in to solve this problem. Jjaba and others ought to detour through the Kalamazoo train station sometime if they are coming this way. Restored all through last year to match it's original 1887 glory. Heavy woodwork restored, marble flooring, blocks taken from the same quarry as the originals, wrought iron railings and ticket counter. VERY respectable and excellent historical preservation work undertaken here. Now arriving, eastbound train number 350, the Wolverine, from Chicago and intermediate destinations, boarding for Battle Creek, Jackson, Ann Arbor, Dearborn, Detroit, Royal Oak, Birmingham, and Pontiac. Final boarding call! | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 897 Registered: 08-2006 |
Yesterday I checked out the Michigan Transportation museum in Mt Clemens. It resides in a restored 1859 GTW Passenger Station. There are excellent artifact displays inside. Especially the ones that talk of Detroit Department of Rail Way cars. I'm told their collection comprises of a Detroit PCC car. The tour guides are cross dressers, but don't let that wierd you out. Cool Museum! | ||
Blueidone Member Username: Blueidone Post Number: 22 Registered: 03-2007 |
Busterwmu...do they still have the shop in the Kazoo train station that sells the "cottage industry" goods? I forget the name of it...think it was run by a charitable organization. I bought stuff there maybe 12 to 15 years ago. Would love to go shopping there again. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 898 Registered: 02-2006 |
I will be Amtrak-ing it from Chicago to Kalamazoo this fall for some football games. I'm looking forward to seeing the "new" station, it's been about 5 years since I've been in it. And to corroborate what busterwmu said, there's not a chance of two trains in Kalamazoo at the same time. There's 2 tracks, but only 1 platform, on the EB side. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5151 Registered: 11-2003 |
jjaba remembers sitting on his suitcase enroute from Detroit to Kalamazoo after vacations, heading back to WMU, 1960. Infact, he went there because of the train service. Her took the Wyoming bus to the Michigan Ave., to the MCS. With Ann Arbor students also in the aisles, we had quite a crowded time. After Ann Arbor, some room opened up but mostly, you never did get much of a seat on the NY Central trains. For a taxi in Kalamazoo, the drivers would stuff us in like sardines, maximizing the fares but also getting us to campus quicker. jjaba lived in Ellsworth Hall all four yrs., 1959-63. His room there is now offices. jjaba, WMU, class of '63. Good memories. | ||
Busterwmu Member Username: Busterwmu Post Number: 374 Registered: 09-2004 |
There is still a concession/sundrie place in the Kalamazoo Station. Prior to the rehab, it was located in the historic bay window area. With the rehab complete, the Concessions are now located at the west end of the depot along Rose St. Looks like they've got quite a variety of things, but I rarely purchase there so I can instead support the onboard foodservice in the cafe car. As for finding a seat, the Michigan Line Amtraks have gone to reserved status so in theory, everyone should have a seat while onboard. Ann Arbor is still the #1 busiest stop on the line in Michigan, followed by Kalamazoo. Thanks to us college hoodlums for keeping the seats full. I can remember some Sunday nights westward out of Detroit stopping at Ann Arbor and people will still be walking around at Chelsea looking for a seat. The conductors try to help but must also be collecting tickets. You have to be assertive and tell the guy who's asleep he needs to put his huge duffle bag somewhere other than the seat next to him. I am glad to get on in Dearborn and miss the "fun" entirely. The cabbies in Kzoo still do the same thing - only instead of the stately Kalamazoo Checker Cabs, they are now minivans and the like in varying states and conditions. I usually just call ahead to a friend to come get me, but I've taken the taxi before. Last night's ride on 354 was very pleasent. Arrived 15 minutes early into Kalamazoo and remained on time the entire way. Lots of people got off in Kalamazoo so our car was only about half full. Many got off in Jackson (unusual) and the usual number got off at AA, so by then, only about 8-10 people were in my car. Dearborn is the 3rd busiest stop on the line. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5194 Registered: 11-2003 |
BusterWMU, thanks for the update on the AMTRAK service on the same line as the NY Central. One big difference obviously is that the line terminates in Pontiac now in a nod to the suburbanization of riders and the absence of the Grand Truck RR service. jjaba, WMU Class of 1963. | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1752 Registered: 04-2005 |
Here is a pretty decent map of Michigan rail lines. http://www.michigan.gov/docume nts/MDOT_Official_Rail_130897_ 7.pdf | ||
Parkguy Member Username: Parkguy Post Number: 2 Registered: 04-2007 |
Here's a snapshot of the Union Station from about 1946-- from my mother's photos.  | ||
Hornist9 Member Username: Hornist9 Post Number: 26 Registered: 05-2005 |
Great photos for any train buff! If anyone wants to actually get into an F7 Cab, the Nickel Plate and Mad River Museum in Bellevue, Ohio has a very nice museum. It's only about a three hour ride from Michigan. I took my wife and Grand daughter last summer. They have many loco's and other attractions there, I really enjoyed sitting in the engineer's seat of the Washbash F7, watching a Norfolk Southern Coal drag pass by on the main. Every time my grand daughter sees one of my F7's on my layout or sees one in an train magazine, she says "Papa, we rode on that one"... She's only three years old. The museum is not very expensive to go and spend some time enjoying trains. | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1840 Registered: 04-2005 |
Lowell, could you add this thread to the Detroit's 2nd Terminal thread in the HOF? There is a lot of good information here. | ||
Busterwmu Member Username: Busterwmu Post Number: 378 Registered: 09-2004 |
For an authentic E unit cab experience, try the National New York Central Railroad Museum in Elkhart, Indiana. They have NYC E8A #4085, the last leading locomotive of the 20th Century Limited on display and you can sit in the cab at the controls. Right next door is the Water Level Route mainline, with over 100 trains a day rolling past. It's a bit farther than Bellevue (3.5 hours or so from Detroit), but well worth the trip. They have a lot of NYC stuff, which is interesting considering the NYC was one of Detroit's best represented railroads, if not THE best represented. Not to overstep the Mad River museum, because they have a great collection too, but this is another opportunity if you are heading west. I actually hope to have an internship at the NYC Museum this coming autumn. | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1855 Registered: 04-2005 |
A 1961 GTW Schedule http://www.rootsweb.com/~mipor thu/Watson/Watson_GTRS_30APR19 61.jpg | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 1726 Registered: 11-2003 |
Thanks for posting the '61 GTW schedule, Psip. Lots of memories there as my dad took the GTW in and out of Detroit to B'ham for many years. The train even had a club car for the commuters. I note the schedule lists Mr. Wichman as the Birmingham agent and I can remember him and his old-fashioned train telegraph in his office. |
