  Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 348 Registered: 03-2006 |
Heard this last night on WWJ, found the story on their website this morning. http://wwj.com/pages/322511.ph p?contentType=4&contentId=3879 00 | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 1163 Registered: 12-2005 |
Here we go again! | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 719 Registered: 10-2006 |
Is it that bad in its current state? Are there not more important areas to upgrade downtown? Can't we just let it be as it is for a while longer. I never found it to be particularly oppressive or anything. Sure it would be nice to have more grass along the riverfront, but not in the heart of downtown at a 'PLAZA!' | ||
Sharmaal Member Username: Sharmaal Post Number: 1044 Registered: 09-2004 |
It's not so much a 'PLAZA' as it is a 'SQUARE' Tiananmen Square to be exact. | ||
Baliad Member Username: Baliad Post Number: 72 Registered: 08-2005 |
i'm all for more grass on the riverfront... hart plaza doesn't have a warm enough feel to it anyways... | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 1137 Registered: 04-2006 |
A place for a restaraunt already exists in Hart Plaza. If there was a market for one, there would be one there. I am all for making small improvements that would not only clean up the park's appearance, but be part of a larger overall plan. My biggest questions would be, where would the money come from? how could we be sure that what is put there is an improvement? Most of what is there was built very well, but the brutalist design should be softened. | ||
Downtown_remix Member Username: Downtown_remix Post Number: 81 Registered: 03-2007 |
Everything needs to be re vamped, including hart plaza. Its has to represent the same 7 dayz a week vitality that the river walk will experience | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1939 Registered: 06-2004 |
too much grass and it'll turn into a mud pit just fix what's in Hart Plaza now, perhaps with a few minor tweaks (something to deter skateboards breaking up everything?), and make the Ford Auditorium site a grassy, treed area - kids can play in the fountain in sun while the old folks can sit in the shade | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2617 Registered: 02-2005 |
bring it on. I don't care how they change HP, just get rid of Ford Aud. | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 2137 Registered: 10-2003 |
Hart Plaza is kind of a mess. The amphitheater bowl is way too small for most of the events that happen there requiring expensive staging or video equipment to make the performers visible. Outside of the big festivals where all the paving is a nice thing to have, it's pretty uninhabitable, uninviting space. I think any good plan will incorporate the original plan for the plaza by keeping the Dodge Fountain and various memorial sculptures. But selectively adding some grass would be a good thing IMO. Even during the biggest and busiest festivals there is an area near the Riverwalk where the crowds thin out. It would be nice to soften up this area with grass, etc. and make it a more inhabitable space. I don't know what restaurant area DP is talking about. If it's the area in the amphitheater pit, well that answers the question as to why it's not successful. Who's going to go down there during a festival or non-festival day? What business owner in their right mind would locate a business underground on the riverfront in the heart of downtown? Who in their right mind would eat at an underground restaurant on a beautiful day like today when you've got not only the riverfront to look at but also the downtown skyline? Having an active, above ground, well designed restaurant in Hart Plaza will be the key to making it an every day active space. They got the money to do an amazing job with Campus Martius and they got the money to do an amazing job with the Riverwalk. I think they'll find the money to do this too. It's far too important of a project to not get funding. Hart Plaza has been this region's town square or gathering place for far too long to let CM and Riverwalk take over that role. The namesake of the auditorium might give you some ideas of people who've likely been talked to by the DEGC to fund this thing. | ||
Craig Member Username: Craig Post Number: 107 Registered: 02-2007 |
I'd have to see the drawings before I signed up (you're right - no one's asking little ol' me) for a rework of Hart Plaza. I remember a vibrant Hart Plaza with Ethnic Festivals and other things going on. Yes, for the most part it is abandoned to the bums (who crap everywhere), but it is a large, aesthetically pleasing public space that gives a crowd a place to frolic along the river, among the art, and in the shadow of our Gotham City skyscrapers. The only thing missing are events with big crowds. Frankly, if the money is there for a re-do it should be put against policing and public relations. With the fireworks beatings and then the killing I don't blame anyone for staying home. (take down the auditorium, though) | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1940 Registered: 06-2004 |
When the Riverwalk is done it's going to be awesome for the fireworks! | ||
Bits Member Username: Bits Post Number: 5 Registered: 02-2005 |
Hart Plaza was designed by one of the best 20th century sculptors, Isamu Noguchi and should be kept intact. It also was planned by Eero Saarinen, who did the civic center masterplan in the 1950 Detroit masterplan. Hart Plaza is a great civic space during the emf and other large festivals, and gatherings (fireworks, Red Wings celebrations, etc) We have an important historic 20th century civic center that should be cleaned up and enhanced. The Noguchi Museum in New York should be contacted and alerted and people need to be educated about what we have here before its too late | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 734 Registered: 11-2004 |
quote: Yeah and it's a cold, uninviting, wasteland the other 99% of the time. It's a monument to bad urban planning | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 3943 Registered: 08-2004 |
How is it that "great" architects like Isamu Noguchi (Hart Plaza architect) and John Portman (RenCen)... are so famous and yet... design such poorly functional creations?? | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 1090 Registered: 08-2006 |
Its too bad they have to demolish the Ford Auditorium. It was such a nice gift, its too bad it has to or might go. I wish they could find another use for it. If you look at, it really is a nice building. I feel Detroit will look back and wish they hadn't torn it down. I like the grass idea. Concrete feels so lifeless and cold, unwelcoming. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1942 Registered: 06-2004 |
Acoustically, Ford Auditorium sucks. My mom used to take me down there every Saturday morning for the Young People's concerts. I probably wouldn't have minded if she hadn't made me dress up so much. | ||
Detroit313 Member Username: Detroit313 Post Number: 299 Registered: 02-2006 |
I think the new 100 story O.C.P. tower should go there. 313 | ||
Tompage Member Username: Tompage Post Number: 12 Registered: 01-2005 |
I seem to recall hearing a few years ago that the Ford Auditorium was being considered as the site for an automotive museum. Apparently that's no longer an option. | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 1164 Registered: 12-2005 |
the Ford auditorium site has been considered for everything BUT Ford auditorium. The city is waiting for Bill Ford Sr. to assume ambient temperature before they demolish. It will be fast, I assure you. | ||
Genesyxx Member Username: Genesyxx Post Number: 702 Registered: 02-2004 |
Aside from updating it a little and filling in the many cracks inbetween tiles, I don't really see a need for an overhaul worth $35-40 million. Hart Plaza is just that... an outdoor plaza for summer events. I say grab tons of industrial-strength putty, put more lighting underground, clean up the bathrooms once in awhile, and for god sakes FIND A USE FOR THE PYRAMID! | ||
Downtown_remix Member Username: Downtown_remix Post Number: 89 Registered: 03-2007 |
Stop being cheap asses. We need our "attractions" updated into the 21 century. You would never see hart plaza in its bland state on Chicago's waterfront. Milwaukee,Baltimore or Boston's harbor would have bulldozed this concrete hell hole years ago. Lets move forward people. This plaza,park needs to have grass,flower beds,an improved eating are(that sub ter eatery is nasty,dark,spooky,and it literally makes your food look like caveman food. Horrible lighting. The pavers on the upper level need to be torn out as well as the stage areas. | ||
Rsa Member Username: Rsa Post Number: 1067 Registered: 10-2003 |
one of the dumbest things i've heard in a long time. congrats! | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8696 Registered: 10-2003 |
Seems to me that this money could be spent on better projects. Hart Plaza is still relatively busy in the summers between festivals and people walking/rellerblading, etc. The concern that I have is that with all projects the one time cost is just one component. Who will maintain the lawns and anything else added. At this point in time Hart PLaza serves its purpose and the money could/should be spent on other parks, Belle Isle, etc. IN the long run this would just add more maintenance costs to a city budget that doesn't have the money. If a conservancy took over ownership it would be fine but I question how nice it will look if the upkeep is not there. | ||
Downtown_remix Member Username: Downtown_remix Post Number: 90 Registered: 03-2007 |
Upkeep is not an issue. If nothing else, downtown maintains its park. Do you guys go to Hart plaza? if you did, you would feel like there needs to be a overhale. An acual reason to go to hart plaza regardless if there's a festival on not. Who on this forum goes to Hart Plaza? If i were an outta towner and their is no festival, i should still be able to enjoy the park. | ||
Quinn Member Username: Quinn Post Number: 1217 Registered: 01-2005 |
I think Ford Auditorium is an eyesore, and and expensive one at that (~1,000,000 per year of tax-payer money goes into keeping it from falling down). It's a money pit. An expanded venue for events like the Hoedown (or whatever it's called), Jazzfest and Technofest is a GREAT idea. Downtown_remix, I've been down there the past two Saturday's either riding a bike or walking. I can't wait for the entire riverfront to open up. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8699 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Which park? Campus Marius is maintained by a conservancy. I go to Hart Plaza often. It is not a matter of needing a reason it is a matter of needing more people. There is a decent amount of grass near the river for relaxing, reading, etc but there just aren't a ton of people there. People, not grass make a public space vibrant. If we can't fill up Campus Martius on a regular basis how will there be enough people to fill Hart PLaza on a regular basis? quote: Spend some time walking around the underground railroad statue. There are usually a handful of tourists there talking pictures. It is nowhere as bleak as you make it to be. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 3947 Registered: 08-2004 |
It is sad to see, but in the 1980's the city spent millions making the Chene Park Amphitheatre into a 3,000 seat outdoor venue. Then 5 years later they spent millions more changing it to a 5,000 seat venue and adding the canopy. Now they want to rip it all out just so they can move it over to where Ford Auditorium is next to Hart Plaza... What a horrible waste of city taxpayer money... | ||
Neilr Member Username: Neilr Post Number: 476 Registered: 06-2005 |
Hart Plaza, with its fountain and pylon, were designed by Isamu Noguchi in the late 1970's. His studio and garden are maintained as a museum in Long Island City, NYC. While it can be difficult to get to from Manhattan, it is well worth a visit. The Asia Society has, at least used to have, a shuttle bus from their museum on Park Ave. to the Noguchi Studio. If you like his work, as I do, it is one of the most beautifully serene places in NYC. | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 949 Registered: 03-2006 |
Hart Plaza always seems to be popular with skateboarders, and the chess players. I agree with Jt1, it's not really that bad. It's kind of tranquil actually. It may see more users when the Riverwalk is finished. | ||
Downtown_remix Member Username: Downtown_remix Post Number: 92 Registered: 03-2007 |
The underground eatery sucks.Nothing is less appealing than a underground eatery waaaay deep under ground with no good lighting, yet just seconds to the bright sunny outdoors. It wouldnt take alot to spruce it up a bit. Dig up some of those concrete pavers and add some pretty flower gardens right in the center leading to the water.The maintainance of HP can go to the conservatory that up keeps the other parks. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8705 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: What other parks? Campus Martius is maintained by a conservancy Tri-Centennial is a State park and maintained by the State. Beyond that I believe that Detroit Parks and Rec maintain the rest. | ||
Sharmaal Member Username: Sharmaal Post Number: 1048 Registered: 09-2004 |
I bet Kwame would love to turn Hart Plaza over to 300 Conservancy or the Riverfront Conservancy. But I don't think all of the Council would agree. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8706 Registered: 10-2003 |
I think they would. They supported turning over operations of the Zoo and Eastern Market. I just don't if a conservancy in this state's economic situation would be willing to take on HP. If they were I would prefer that HP be left as it is and the conservancy start doing something at Belle Isle. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8707 Registered: 10-2003 |
Oops - the riverfron walkway is also being maintained by a conservancy. | ||
Downtown_remix Member Username: Downtown_remix Post Number: 93 Registered: 03-2007 |
walked all over belle isle over the weekend. Dont know where the monies are comming from but the island looks great. The city will spend watever it takes to keep "certain visitors" happy. | ||
Christos Member Username: Christos Post Number: 82 Registered: 12-2006 |
whatever happened to the sky tram to windsor, or whatever they were calling it? Anyone have links to pics of that proposal? | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 354 Registered: 03-2006 |
I think the New race at Belle Isle has a lot to do with the cleanup efforts, it was part of the deal. | ||
Downtown_remix Member Username: Downtown_remix Post Number: 94 Registered: 03-2007 |
no the island has been clean for the past 2 years. The races cleanup efford kicks into high gear april | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 2197 Registered: 06-2004 |
quote: Try taking your 2 year old to the playscape every weekend from April - October. Spend as much time picking up litter, broken glass, and other discarded objects, as I do playing with the kid. The park is great, and I love it, and I utilized it more than most, but to say that it is clean and or well-maintained is an insult to clean and/or well-maintained parks around the globe. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 3957 Registered: 08-2004 |
Dabirch, I bet your 2 year old loves the Conservatory. For the last 18 years we have a family tradition where every Good Friday I take my mom (now 84), sister, niece and nephew to Greektown for lunch (they love the flaming cheese... OPA!!), followed by a drive around Belle Isle and a visit to the Conservatory. We all still do this every year, even though my niece and nephew are now 22 and 19. One of the few family traditions we have. The conservatory, at least, never looked better. We do miss the deer... (Message edited by Gistok on March 28, 2007) | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 1096 Registered: 08-2006 |
I think I should say, I love Belle Isle. I saw it last year and fell in love. What a beautiful park! I love the conservatory and that big waiting pool. I wish the Aquarium was open. The park is amazing. I think it's getting better. The roads were getting paved or redone and they had some kind of a zoo. We drove all over the island. Very jealous of that park. Detroit should take great care of it. I have about 30 pictures of the inside of the conservatory. Just great! Back to Hart Plaza.... | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 3960 Registered: 08-2004 |
Wasn't the Anna Scripts Whitcomb Conservatory originally at a Worlds Fair or something like that? 1904... it would have to have been the Louis & Clark Centennial Exposition in St. Louis... but I don't know if that is correct? | ||
Souldrummer Member Username: Souldrummer Post Number: 8 Registered: 03-2006 |
Hart Plaza is cool...but would be cooler with an open air eatery and some more greenery. And for the record the last time I went to Chicago the Millenium park was about as full as Campus Martius and the Riverfront put together on a weekday. Hart Plaza's ampitheater and Pyramid stage could be revamped to attract more everyday people. Ford Auditorium....never saw a show there and I think the only thing I've ever seen there is broken glass, homeless, and garbage. Tear it down and put in a sheltered skate park...skaters are people too. Imagine the publicity of putting a skatepark downtown instead of out in Livonia or Canton. The youth attraction alone would be outstanding! | ||
Saabdriver1986 Member Username: Saabdriver1986 Post Number: 391 Registered: 04-2004 |
Skate parks are not cool anymore .... nor were they ever | ||
Sharmaal Member Username: Sharmaal Post Number: 1050 Registered: 09-2004 |
Tell that to the hoards of Skateboarders at Hart Plaza. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 8827 Registered: 12-2003 |
Open season on those rolling and scraping carbon-based annoyances, far as I'm concerned. I am against them significantly changing the Plaza, but it DOES need sprucing up. When I'm jogging through there, I see those broken custom glass globe lighting fixtures and wonder how they cracked just off the top. Edge pavers are gone on the apron leading to the Underground Railroad memorial sculpture...and they could use a couple of trucks of dirt to remound the grassy knolls. I cannot imagine the whole area grass, though. Would it run maintenance costs UP, or is cleaning/sweeping the bricks the same as mowing/watering/fertilizing? I think the existing restaurant could be nice, like eating inside a daily sundial. Perfect for a wintertime eatery, but the AC costs during the summertime must be brutal...all for NO view of the river at any time. I think those stages are just the right size, any larger shows can go down to Chene Park...wonder what size the performance venue is going to be, sounds curious, and anything is an improvement on the Auditorium...LOL at Packman's comments. Every time I see that damn pyramid I think of the Aztec human sacrifices... |
