  Cmubryan Member Username: Cmubryan Post Number: 384 Registered: 11-2003 |
If you HAD to move to one or the other which one would you choose? Specifically 75 and 16 Mile or 11 Mile between Telegraph and Inkster. If you are going to post a sarcastic response then please don't post at all. | ||
Spiritofdetroit Member Username: Spiritofdetroit Post Number: 356 Registered: 11-2006 |
Troy, by far. | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 3100 Registered: 10-2003 |
Dallas .... or Dubai | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 237 Registered: 10-2003 |
I would think Troy. Do you really HAVE to move to one or the other, or is this an odd hypothetical question? | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5216 Registered: 10-2003 |
It would have to be Southfield, for me. I like the fact that it's one of the only cities north of 8 Mile that eventually built a bridge of sorts to its neighbor to the south, and that can be seen in its demographics. They could have easily kept in place the barriers that the likes of Warren and Livonia have kept in place to this very day. (Message edited by lmichigan on March 12, 2007) | ||
Bearinabox Member Username: Bearinabox Post Number: 121 Registered: 04-2006 |
Definitely 11 and Inkster. I hate Troy with a passion, especially Big Beaver Road. The western end of Southfield is much prettier, quieter, and less of a clusterfuck in terms of traffic. It's also much closer to Detroit. :-) Big Beaver is all ugly high-rises, gigantic parking lots, too-wide roads and too-green lawns, and unless you're a huge fan of Somerset I don't think it's all that much better in terms of amenities. That part of Southfield is actually one of my favourite parts of Oakland County, since they did a fairly good job of not letting the development ruin the landscape, although that really applies more to 10 mile than 11. | ||
Cmubryan Member Username: Cmubryan Post Number: 385 Registered: 11-2003 |
Just a comment to add: Troy is closer (especially now w/ the Lodge closed but even without it closed) to Downtown Detroit than Southfield-at least the Western portion that I am referring to. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8510 Registered: 10-2003 |
There is more to Detroit than downtown. | ||
Bearinabox Member Username: Bearinabox Post Number: 122 Registered: 04-2006 |
Southfield's closer to the city limits (8 mile and Five Points). Also, I've had too many bad experiences with that stretch of I-75 (north of about 12 mile) to consider it a viable route downtown, but maybe I'm just always on it at the wrong times (I tend to prefer surface streets anyway). But even if Troy was undoubtedly closer, I'd still prefer western Southfield to Big Beaver. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 239 Registered: 10-2003 |
JT1 is referring to Trumpps. Your Southfield location would be closer. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2552 Registered: 02-2005 |
Nothing in Oakland county. If you had a gun to my head, then it would be 8-mile road, the Southfield side. | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 4763 Registered: 11-2004 |
I think I woul dneed more information here before I would lean one way or another. Some of the things that I would take into consideration would be the proximity to work. Which is closer? With gas prices being what they are I would have to consider that. Also are you thinking about your kids education? School quality also has to have some priority as well. And as far as the quiet suburban life style- each has its own slightly unique offerings. Comparing these two is akin to comparing macIntosh apples to golden delicious apples- very similar and yet just different enough. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 3796 Registered: 08-2004 |
Geeze... I've worked in both... and it's a tough call... For restaurants it's Southfield... for shopping it's Troy. While both are congested at rush hour, I can get back to the east side quicker from Southfield. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2556 Registered: 02-2005 |
"I can get back to the east side quicker from Southfield." ...and this is all that really matters, at least to those of us who know how to live. | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 763 Registered: 08-2006 |
Southfield!!! Grew up there from age 7-10 and 10 thru College years. People in Troy think their City is better then it is, simply because they cheekily built a few tall buildings way north of Detroit and lured a some companies anxious to flee from blacks in Detroit. | ||
Cmubryan Member Username: Cmubryan Post Number: 386 Registered: 11-2003 |
Yes Southfield is closer to the city limits but really I would be 99% travelling to downtown due to the fact that there is not much of interest to me in the neighborhoods at this point. When I say downtown I mean the greater downtown area (Woodward from Jefferson to Grand Blvd and anywhere within a couple miles of there). The only reason I would consider schools would be for re-sale of my home as I do not have any children yet. Obviously, Troy wins out in this category as one of the leading school districts. As far as crime, I would peg Troy with the lower crime rate. I believe it ended up being one of the safest cities when looking at stats last year in the country. Could it be a lot of people on this forum go for Southfield due to the fact that it is one of the most popular suburbs for inner city Detroiters to move to? | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 132 Registered: 02-2007 |
"Just a comment to add: Troy is closer (especially now w/ the Lodge closed but even without it closed) to Downtown Detroit than Southfield-at least the Western portion that I am referring to." You must of never heard of surface streets have you? Typical westsider. | ||
Gtat44 Member Username: Gtat44 Post Number: 57 Registered: 02-2007 |
My preference would be Southfield. Closer to 8 Mile, which was MY main highway in order to get anywhere. A lot of great REAL bakeries in Southfield also. My experiences in Troy were running into people that looked down on those of us that grew up south of 8 Mile. Similar to the looks you would get if you ventured into Grosse Pointe. Black or white you all know the looks. IMHO, I felt more in my own enviroment, insecure maybe. But comfortable just the same. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 497 Registered: 04-2006 |
Southfield, hands down. It's a bit more diverse than Troy the last time I checked... | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8513 Registered: 10-2003 |
From 2000 census (I am guessing there have been shifts since then) Troy: White Non-Hispanic (81.3%) Asian Indian (5.7%) Chinese (3.8%) Black (2.1%) Two or more races (1.8%) Korean (1.5%) Hispanic (1.5%) Filipino (1.0%) Other Asian (0.7%) Southfield: Black (54.2%) White Non-Hispanic (38.3%) Two or more races (3.0%) Asian Indian (1.4%) Hispanic (1.2%) American Indian (0.9%) Other race (0.6%) Chinese (0.5%) | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2559 Registered: 02-2005 |
Gtat, I don't know if the "south of 8-mile" part was the crux of your comment, but you do know that 95 percent of Grosse Pointe is south of 8-mile, thereby making GP-ers incapable of making such a look. If your point is merely about these suburbanites acting strange anytime they see a minority, again I differ re: Grosse Pointe; even though the most diverse GP, the Park, is still 91 percent white, the juxtaposition to Detroit and the long border along Mack makes interaction with minorities pretty commonplace; many people from Detroit also shop at, i.e. the Kroger's in downtown GP. GP has it's fair share of idiots, but I would avoid comparing it to anything in the core of Oakland County. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 1077 Registered: 04-2006 |
Check the following: Proximity Factors: - Where does your family live? - Where do you work? Economic Factors: - Which has lower costs (property taxes, insurance)? Quality of Life Factors: - What neighborhood do you feel most comfortable? I would not make a decision based upon the Lodge being reconstructed now. Such things are temporary. I-75 is also due for a major reconstruction in Oakland County to address congestion and safety issues. | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 4766 Registered: 11-2004 |
It's odd to see so many people debating here like one is oh-so right and the other is so whacked out. When it comes right down to it- it's a personal preference. What could be much more beneficial for one person might not be for another. I think thinking things through like what Detroitplanner would be the most prudent thing to do and then make that choice. Obviously there are people that live in BOTH of those communities and they made their choices to live there. Why? Because hopefully they made that choice because it was right for them. No snobbery or pretensions about it. | ||
Gtat44 Member Username: Gtat44 Post Number: 59 Registered: 02-2007 |
Mackinaw, I'm not speaking of geographical lines, nor am I speaking of racial lines. It is the I'm better than you attitude. (So called status) When I was growing up in the 7 & Gratiot area during the 70's and 80's, I would ride my bike to the lake quite often. The looks you would get from the "docksider" men and the "made up women" were very insulting and intimidating as a young adult. Just because they made good money or happen to inherit good money did not make them any better than me. We were all looked on as peasants, that may not be the case these days. But, just the same the fake personality sickened me at the time. When I knew they had the same problems if not more on the inside of their homes. The same persona was projected in Troy, when I would make deliveries there in the 80's. | ||
Gtat44 Member Username: Gtat44 Post Number: 60 Registered: 02-2007 |
By the way, I happen to me white. | ||
Gtat44 Member Username: Gtat44 Post Number: 61 Registered: 02-2007 |
be  | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 1406 Registered: 11-2003 |
I think Gtat needs to grow thicker skin. Adults look at kids/young adults like they're from another world all the time. I'm sure it didn't even cross their mind that you might have been from 7 and Gratiot. How would they have even known? They just didn't want some obnoxious kids jumping their bikes off the marina docks. | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 516 Registered: 01-2005 |
How about another option? Suicide. | ||
Yvette248 Member Username: Yvette248 Post Number: 454 Registered: 10-2006 |
I like the laid back neighborhoods in Southfield, but I hate the city overall. Troy has better schools, etc., but no personality and traffic is a nightmare. Royal Oak is the best of both worlds, but I'm biased. | ||
Gtat44 Member Username: Gtat44 Post Number: 62 Registered: 02-2007 |
Explain the mentality of the teenagers, back then it came from there parents. It also happened in athletics also! Oh and the suicide comment not funny That was attempted on June 3rd 2002. (circumstances unrelated to this subject) And thick skin if I didn't have it I wouldn't be here now! As I said in a prior post it was my opinion. The guys and girls I grew up with felt the same way. | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 577 Registered: 12-2006 |
I prefer Grosse Pointe thank you. May not be much here, but at least it looks better than both Troy and Southfield. | ||
Cmubryan Member Username: Cmubryan Post Number: 387 Registered: 11-2003 |
I might add that I've lived downtown for two years and would love to stay but can't find anything that makes financial sense compared to suburban developments. When comparing similar types of developments greater downtown is more expensive and then once insurance is factored in, it's even worse. | ||
Long_in_the_tooth Member Username: Long_in_the_tooth Post Number: 22 Registered: 01-2007 |
it depends on if you are renting or owning. both areas have plenty of mid century, ranch style homes, hell, Frank Lloyd Wright did a sub in Madison Heights not far from Troy. The taxes in Southfield are very high (in comparison). And also the drive in and out of town (Detroit) is less a pain from Troy. I have lived all over metro Detroit and find myself downtown now for the past 4 years. For me, it seems to have the best energy. | ||
Bearinabox Member Username: Bearinabox Post Number: 125 Registered: 04-2006 |
Well, downtown doesn't really have "similar type developments" to Southfield or Troy. Downtown is high-density and mostly made up of 1910s and 20s-era commercial buildings, western Southfield is mostly subdivisions of 1950s and 60s-era ranch houses on large lots, and the Big Beaver corridor of Troy is mostly tinted-glass monstrosities from the 70s and 80s surrounded by acres of parking. I don't know how you can seriously compare housing options in those three areas. Regarding the lifestyles each has to offer, I'd pick downtown first, Southfield second, and Troy a VERY distant third, but comparing the prices of the three seems rather "apples and oranges." I'd just go with whichever lifestyle appeals to you. | ||
Spacemonkey Member Username: Spacemonkey Post Number: 173 Registered: 03-2006 |
I like Troy. | ||
Ravine Member Username: Ravine Post Number: 748 Registered: 01-2006 |
DetroitYes Rule 14C: "No thread shall be posted which, in its initial post, seeks to categorically prevent, pre-empt, or forestall the use of sarcasm by forum members responding to said post." | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 136 Registered: 02-2007 |
"I prefer Grosse Pointe thank you. May not be much here, but at least it looks better than both Troy and Southfield." I do too, particularly Woods for the old Suburban style and look and Park for the Homes. The others are ok. | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 159 Registered: 11-2006 |
Schools are a huge factor if you have kids...on that front, I would have to lean Troy (but actually prefer Farmington Hills). I grew up in Southfield, so I am extremely biased....and give the overall nod to Southfield...a great place to live, very diverse, centrally located, nice mix of older and newer homes. Once upon a time (15 years ago) there was a spoiler factor which was flat, or declining relative property values in Southfield. However, now that this has run its' course with the cost of living quite low, and the likelihood that later values will be steadily (if slow) upward....Southfield looks good again. Troy is still pricey, and like the cliche says what goes up, must come down. | ||
Mossman Member Username: Mossman Post Number: 23 Registered: 08-2006 |
They are both hideous places in which to live. The only worthwhile city in MI is Ann Arbor. It's walkable, diverse and has many options available within a true urban context. | ||
English Member Username: English Post Number: 523 Registered: 10-2003 |
Been an Ann Arbor resident for 2 years now. This place is weird as hell. I'd vote Southfield, because of the location... Troy's closer to Pontiac and Flint, but Southfield's closer to Detroit, Ann Arbor, and the state and US/Canada borders. Also, there's several options for freeways/thoroughfares... and yes, Big Beaver IS evil. | ||
Cmubryan Member Username: Cmubryan Post Number: 388 Registered: 11-2003 |
It amazes me how people have this untrue idea about Troy that it is SO much further out of the city than Southfield... It starts 6 miles from the city limit. True, Southfield borders the city but like I said getting to the central part of the city takes about the same time. Troy is no where near Flint and closer to downtown and the Canadian border than Southfield. Depending on where you are in each city Pontiac is about the same distance (one via I-75, the other via Telegraph) | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 599 Registered: 12-2006 |
Mossman, have you ever been to GP? I completely disagree with your statement. GP is a great place to live (if boring doesn't matter). AA is not the only place to live in Michigan. | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 349 Registered: 08-2006 |
btw- is "diversity" the new code speak for blacks live there? | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 164 Registered: 11-2006 |
Black, Asian, Jewish, Arab, Caucasion, Latino.....everything. Not intended as code for any one particular ethnic group. | ||
Superdave Member Username: Superdave Post Number: 7 Registered: 03-2007 |
boycotting troy because they wont give HOOTERS a liquor license but would live there over southfield. even tho strip bars are right across the street in sfld i don't need the overflow of the democratic population heading north. | ||
Cmubryan Member Username: Cmubryan Post Number: 389 Registered: 11-2003 |
Unfortunately Southfield is getting less and less diverse everyday while I believe Troy is still gaining in diversity. Some cities I would peg as "diverse" would be Farmington Hills, West Bloomfield, Pontiac, Hamtramck Ann Arbor is probably the most diverse in the area but really no city has a great amount of diversity, heck we are one of the most segregated areas in the US. | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 166 Registered: 11-2006 |
Very good point, we are probably the most segregated city/metro area in the country. It is heartening to see these cities breaking away from that stereotype, but I have no idea if it is a truely diverse area, or if it is just an anecdotal observation. | ||
Bobzilla Member Username: Bobzilla Post Number: 72 Registered: 11-2003 |
11 Mile between Telegraph and Inkster seems to be a good choice. (1) LOTS of trees in that part of Southfield; (2) Take 11 Mile west to Middlebelt and there's a Kroger; (3) A nice five mile drive to downtown Farmington (where Great Harvest Bread Co is a decent substitute for Avalon); (4) Plenty of good restaurants (incl sushi, indian, chinese etc) a few miles away on Orchard Lake Road; (5) a very good Korean place at 9 and Inkster or maybe 9 and Beech Daly; (6) nice parks around there, incl an excellent woodsy park on Farmington Road near 11 Mile; (7) close to Telegraph if you want to go north or south; (8) not far from 696 if you want to go east or west; and (9) going downtown via the Lodge (when the orange barrels are gone) may be better than I-75. That's a pretty nice quiet part of Southfield, and it is pretty well-situated. Lots of trees around there. Traffic isn't that bad. By contrast, living in Troy off 16 Mile near I-75 seems like a lot of traffic, a lot of I-75, and an awful lot of Big Beaver. | ||
Ffdfd Member Username: Ffdfd Post Number: 50 Registered: 09-2006 |
quote: I worked in Troy for several years in the 1990s, near Crooks and Big Beaver. The thing I didn't like about it was the rush-hour traffic. From about 3:30-6:30 p.m., there was no good way to get out of there -- gridlock in every direction. It was tough to schedule any activities directly after work. I don't know how bad it is now, but that traffic would probably make downtown Detroit a longer drive than from Southfield at certain times of day. | ||
Cmubryan Member Username: Cmubryan Post Number: 390 Registered: 11-2003 |
Interesting...I'll have to check it out. Usually with my work schedule I don't get home until about 7:30pm. Believe it or not the fact that an area is quieter in terms of trees and nature doesn't appeal to me as much as being close to a lot things. The reason why I am leaning more towards Troy is the fact that I can still walk to nearby things and there is tons of stuff within a few miles: downtown Royal Oak, Birmingham, the whole Woodward corridor, etc. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8557 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Where? I'm not trying to be a smart ass or anti-suburb but I don't know of any areas of Troy that are walkable. | ||
Cmubryan Member Username: Cmubryan Post Number: 391 Registered: 11-2003 |
The place is on Troy Center Drive right off Big Beaver just east of Crooks, right in the middle of that commercial district. There are actually sidewalks and it's within walking distance to some places like that shopping center where Potbelly's is along Crooks. Definitely more walkable than Inkster and Eleven Mile area. | ||
Jfried Member Username: Jfried Post Number: 941 Registered: 11-2003 |
I think this whole thread is just an excuse for cmubryan to validate his decision to give up on moving to the city, but he does has a point here. Midtown, and the CBD of Detrot are NOT the only walkable places in Southeast Michigan. If you live along one of the major commercial corridors, or near a traditional downtown, you have many options, probably more than anywhere in the city of Detroit. From my office here in Macomb County I can walk to over 20 bars & restaurants, the library, art galleries, the post office, a riverfront park, the ymca, etc. etc. all within 5 minutes or less. I cannot do that from my loft in Midtown. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8560 Registered: 10-2003 |
I doubt anyone disputes that there are other walkable areas in the region. Some that come to mind are downtown Rochester (not the mallish thing), Mack in GP, downtown Mt. Clemens, RO, Birmingham, etc but they are few and far between with much less options than the Midtown/Downtown areas. That is not to say they are bad but they are different. Now calling the stretch of Crooks in Troy walkable is a stretch IMO but my opinion has no bearing on where Bryan chooses to live. The main difference that I see is that there is more potential in the Midtown area. I know people can't live on potential but it is the potential of midtown/downtown/SW/Lafayette park/River East, etc that keeps many here and many engaged in the community. To each his/her own but I bet there are 20 places more walkable than that stretch in Troy. To be honest I just don't like Troy. There is an arrogance there that bothers me. I can deal with arrogance but arrogance with no reason to be arrogant annoys me to no end. | ||
Detroit_girl Member Username: Detroit_girl Post Number: 80 Registered: 10-2003 |
Troy = gridlocked traffic pretty much everywhere during regular business hours. I worked near Crooks and Big Beaver while living downtown and the commute was HELL. And forget about it on snowy winter days. | ||
Cmubryan Member Username: Cmubryan Post Number: 393 Registered: 11-2003 |
Jfried, please read my above post: "I might add that I've lived downtown for two years and would love to stay but can't find anything that makes financial sense compared to suburban developments. When comparing similar types of developments, greater downtown is more expensive and then once insurance is factored in, it's even worse." I WANT TO STAY BUT CAN'T AFFORD IT AND I DON'T WANT TO GIVE UP A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF QUALITY. In other words, if I find a 900 sq foot place in the suburbs for the same price as an 800 sq foot place downtown then I would definitely consider but if I have to go down to 600 sq feet to get the same price then that doesn't make sense to me. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8561 Registered: 10-2003 |
Bryan - While not downtown have you checked into any of the Lafayette co-op stuff? I don't know how co-ops work but they seem to be a decent amount of place for the dollar | ||
Cmubryan Member Username: Cmubryan Post Number: 394 Registered: 11-2003 |
Yes, I have. I can't afford to pay 600-700 a month plus a mortgage financing $100,000. I know I could go less for a major fixer-upper but once again, I don't have the funds to fix it up that much and I am definitely not the handiest guy in the world in terms of home remodeling. | ||
Cmubryan Member Username: Cmubryan Post Number: 395 Registered: 11-2003 |
Might I add, I live in Lafayette Park right now and love it and would love to stay! | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8562 Registered: 10-2003 |
I thought some of those co-ops were in the 20-30K range but the ones I have seen ads for might be really cheap and run down. No luck for inexpensive places that are a good value in the Monitor. I'm sure that you have checked into it but it seems to me the monitor has some good deals. I guess not knowing the place/details/etc makes it hard for me to really determine what kind of deal any of them are. | ||
Jfried Member Username: Jfried Post Number: 942 Registered: 11-2003 |
I think it pretty much common knowledge that most people who are moving to the area generally regarded as downtown live there because they have a great desire to be in that type of environment, and the financial issues aren't a huge deal. If you want to live in a nice area, in a downtown, pretty much anywhere in the country you're going to end up paying a little more. This is true in NY, Chi, Portland, Detroit, or pretty much anywhere else. I think your other post said that you were looking at spending $180k. You aren't going to find anything in the CBD, but there are so many options like Jt1 mentioned in Brush Park, Midtown, Lafeyette Park, RIGHT outside of downtown. When you look at the NEZ tax breaks, and the quality of the place you're getting it's definitely very competitive with what you would find in the burbs. I was going to mention that you might want to check out the Addison, the apts above Atlas Restaurant on Woodward in Brush Park. They are going condo, very high quality, and pretty affordable considering. Move to Troy when you have kids. | ||
Jfried Member Username: Jfried Post Number: 943 Registered: 11-2003 |
Addison starts at $143k, association fee $150. | ||
Cmubryan Member Username: Cmubryan Post Number: 396 Registered: 11-2003 |
As I've been doing more research, my price range has definitely dropped to the 125 range, which is nearly impossible in the downtown/midtown area. One other stipulation is that I want to be able to have my large dog visit me which counts me out for Addison. | ||
Jfried Member Username: Jfried Post Number: 944 Registered: 11-2003 |
Jt1 - I agree that the potential, and just the excitement in general is why many people are so attracted to the city. There are so many reasons to live in Detroit (diversity, history, architecture, nightlife, sports, etc.), but I think the biggest reason is simply that it's the big city in our region and many people would rather live in the big city than the burbs. I get annoyed with the zero sum game that so many people play that whatever is good for the city is bad for the burbs, or vice versa. I just wish people would start to look at the different areas of the region as simply different neighborhoods - Birmingham, Midtown, Royal Oak, Corktown, Mount Clemens, all they really are are different Detroit neighborhoods. But back to walkability. Very few areas in Michigan are truly walkable, where it's more efficient to walk then get in your car. I know there are parts of midtown like that now, but where I'm at it's still makes more sense to drive. But you're right, I see the potential, and the momentum is really starting. | ||
Cmubryan Member Username: Cmubryan Post Number: 397 Registered: 11-2003 |
"I just wish people would start to look at the different areas of the region as simply different neighborhoods - Birmingham, Midtown, Royal Oak, Corktown, Mount Clemens.." Jfried, you must be reading my mind because this is EXACTLY how I feel! If we could just realize that we all make up Detroit then we could really move this region forward-socially, economically, etc. Yes there is only ONE DOWNTOWN and "downtown" royal oak, birmingham, etc. should just be considered neighborhood districts. That's why if I decided to move to a different neighborhood, I shouldn't be berated for leaving the city, because G-d knows I love the city! | ||
Jfried Member Username: Jfried Post Number: 945 Registered: 11-2003 |
You're right, but you know people on here are obligated to harass you! | ||
Granmontrules Member Username: Granmontrules Post Number: 47 Registered: 01-2007 |
I think you are crazy for moving to either one. I can't believe it is that bad economically to move to either one of those two horrible places. You need to shop around for insurance rates and or get a better living arrangement. Moving to one of those dumps is hell. | ||
Lostintheburbs Member Username: Lostintheburbs Post Number: 1 Registered: 03-2007 |
I was going through the same dilemma 2 years ago when trying to decide where to buy. I like some of mid to northwest Southfield's more secluded area's, large wooded lots and some very cool mid century modernist houses, but then I looked at the taxes & ins. rates which are insanely high & the same reason I couldn't justify buying in Detroit at the time (which I now regret.) So I settled on a house in the Southwest corner of Troy adjacent to Clawson & RO because I found a good deal, its 3 miles from work & the taxes are really low as was all the ins. rates. Troy has good city services, schools & the community center is nice. It's all good on paper but as a city it's so sterile & suburban, plus the snob factor increases exponentially to the north. If I were to do it again, I would have looked harder at Detroit and Southfield. However, as another option consider Clawson, sorta has a small town feel, they're developing 14mile & Main a bit & you get more for your $ than in RO or Troy. There are some nice houses on the north side of 14mi a bit east of Rochester to Main that have really nice lots for good prices. Walkable, not so much, but it depends on location, I ride my bike & scooter everywhere in the spring & summer though. (Message edited by lostintheburbs on March 16, 2007) (Message edited by lostintheburbs on March 16, 2007) | ||
Cmubryan Member Username: Cmubryan Post Number: 398 Registered: 11-2003 |
I looked at some condos in Clawson on 15 Mile pretty far east and was not impressed by the area. Taxes in Southfield are I believe double what they are in Troy plus the crime rate is a lot higher and the schools aren't great. I don't understand what the draw is except for a convenient location to pretty much everywhere. To me the southern portion of Troy is more urban with streetlights and sidewalks (unlike a lot of Southfield). Granmont, give me some advice then...where did you buy insurance from? What area of the city do you live in? (assuming you live in Detroit and with that attitude, you better). | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5242 Registered: 10-2003 |
I want someone to find the crime states, because, though they are proportionaly higher to Troy's, I assume, I'd still guess the crime rate (and especially the violent crime rate) is rather low. Cmurbryan, why do you keep question people's choice of Southfield as if they aren't allowed to have an opinion? There is no right or wrong, answer, here, and people like what they like. I mean, really, not only did you ask a highly subjective questions, but you didn't place any conditions that people must explain why they chose which one they did. You're lucky that anyone has explained their choice, at all. It seems that all of your subsequent replies, in this thread, have been trying to explain why Southfield would be the worst of the two choice. Are you really asking a question, or trying to guide everyone to the 'correct' opinion? (Message edited by lmichigan on March 16, 2007) | ||
Cmubryan Member Username: Cmubryan Post Number: 399 Registered: 11-2003 |
Proportionally compared to what?? Troy is larger than Southfield... There are no rules with asking questions and there are no rules with questioning people's thoughts. I was simply playing devil's advocate and there were a lot more comments knocking Troy than Southfield if it were vice versa I probably would have done the same and questioned the people rooting for Troy. Yes the questions were subject LMICH, opinion based...which is exactly what I wanted and there are no reasons to place any conditions. | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 172 Registered: 02-2007 |
Troy is larger than Southfield? I truly thought differently in terms of area. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5244 Registered: 10-2003 |
Troy and Southfield, population wise, are nearly exactly the same population. Southfield (26.3 sq mi) is measurably smaller than Troy (33.6 sq mi), land-wise, making Southfield denser. At the end of the day, though, they are still both auto-centric sprawlburbs. Troy just happens to be a Southfield 2.0. accept that there aren't many improvements to the idea of suburbia. And, if sprawl continues like it has been doing, there will be the next Troy or Southfield 3.0, and we'll be calling Troy the higher crime, declining area. lol That's the thing about suburbia, it's not self-sustaining, they simply cannibalize the each other, and you move on to the "next big thing" out at 101 mile road. | ||
Fareastsider Member Username: Fareastsider Post Number: 239 Registered: 08-2006 |
Auburn Hills is already becoming Southfield 3.0! | ||
Lt_tom Member Username: Lt_tom Post Number: 155 Registered: 06-2004 |
Hasnt Detroit proper turned in a sprawlburb due to loss in pop. density? I would venture to say that suburbs only cannabalize each other in declining areas like Metro Detroit. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5249 Registered: 10-2003 |
Some areas, but the cities population density is still far greater than many of the Southern and Western cities, even in its relative emptied-out state. | ||
Gertrude Member Username: Gertrude Post Number: 31 Registered: 05-2005 |
CMUBryan, you've gotten a lot of feedback here but have you considered downtown Farmington (Grand River/Farmington)? It is much more pedestrian friendly and there is a true community spirit down there. If you are willing to move to the Gr. River/Orchard Lake/9-Mile area, you are still within walking distance of several really nice parks, shops, restaurants but the home prices are a bit lower. I live closer to 10/Middlebelt, but spend a lot of my time and $ in downtown Farmington. | ||
Sticks Member Username: Sticks Post Number: 233 Registered: 08-2005 |
I'd only live in Troy if it meant I could actually afford to buy a car from Michigan's only Bentley dealer. Otherwise, stick me in the suburban wasteland that is Southfield. quote: TROY (pop. 81,000 - 2003 est.) Serious crimes known to police, 2000: 2,424 Serious crimes known to police per 100,000 population, 2000: 3,042 Property crimes known to police, 2000: 2,319 Violent crimes known to police, 2000: 105 SOUTHFIELD (pop. 77,000 - 2003 est.) Serious crimes known to police, 2000: 5,432 Serious crimes known to police per 100,000 population, 2000: 7,215 Property crimes known to police, 2000: 4,696 Violent crimes known to police, 2000: 736 Southfield had 7 times more violent crimes than Troy with similar population. Southfield had double the rate of serious crimes than Troy with similar population. Flint's serious crime rate per 100k: 8,345 Detroit's serious crime rate per 100k: 9,848 You guys can go dig through the FBI website for more up-to-date stats but I think those'll be just as similar. | ||
Arrogancy Member Username: Arrogancy Post Number: 1 Registered: 02-2007 |
Troy by far. Troy is cleaner, has much cleaner and more presentable restaurants, has better neighborhoods, has MUCH better shopping X1,000,000, better schools, etc. And I live in Southfield. Well as north and East as you can possibly get with Southfield, literally (I may as well say I live in beverly Hills or Royal Oak), but it's not a residential bias. | ||
Cmubryan Member Username: Cmubryan Post Number: 403 Registered: 11-2003 |
Are there any developments in the 120k range in northeastern Southfield? I do like that area. | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 483 Registered: 11-2005 |
Southfield or Troy? If you HAD to move to one or the other which one would you choose? If I HAD to choose between those two, I think I would choose to shoot myself. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1464 Registered: 10-2003 |
Yeah, it's like a waking death each day when you must live in the suburbs. So mundane. Not edgy. After all, what could be worse than being BORED? My God... | ||
Kpm Member Username: Kpm Post Number: 31 Registered: 08-2005 |
Not sure what the prices are, but there is a new condo/townhouse development that looks relatively affordable on the east side of Southfield Rd btw 12 and 13 Mile roads (the site of a former trailer park). Nice design, too. When I looked into these Troy conversion condos a year or so ago they were nice: http://www.bayberrycondo.com/ (1+ mile walk to downtown Bham). | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8627 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: We live in a region where it is commonplace to bash the city, grill someone as to why they would live in the city, etc. But once someone does it to the burbs (because of their personal preference) you have to come in and complain. I wonder Fury (besides this board) how many times have people asked for a reason why you live where you do or a justification why you live there. Beyond that how many times have people bitched about how horrible your city is to you (even though they do nothing in or for it). You'll have to understand if some of us have our place to occasionally bitch about boring suburbs since we have to defend why we live somewhere. I suspect that doesn't happen to you to often. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8628 Registered: 10-2003 |
My rant isn't aimed at you per se, just the attitude. I suspect others like me get really annoyed with the feeling from so many others in the region that we are obligated to justify why we would live in big, bad Detroit because it does not fit their lifestyle. Just a rant. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1466 Registered: 10-2003 |
Oh, I have to defend where I live quite a bit. My point is, everyone has the right to make a choice. Some of don't want loud or edgy. Some of us want quiet and family-friendly. I suspect that it may be an age-demographic sort of thing. I actually love the city. I understand the appeal of living in a vibrant or up-and-coming urban setting. Up until about three years ago, the city would have been my environment of choice. And make no mistake, I do root for the city; after all, I work downtown and patronize (read: "give my money to") many, many downtown establishments, from the Opera House to Lafayette Coney Island. I just get a little tired of the Detroit rah-rah with blinders on, and also of people bashing the 'burbs solely because they believe in the rightness, the superiority, of the urban choice they've made. The city has a lot to offer. So do the 'burbs, in a different way. There is no right choice for everyone. There's only a right choice for each individual. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8630 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: My bad on the assumption. My point was that there are so many sources of 'Detroit sucks' the suburbs are wonderful' that you need to concede a little bit of the rah, rah or 'we don't like the suburban lifestyle' on this site since there are so few in comparison to the other kind. | ||
Arrogancy Member Username: Arrogancy Post Number: 2 Registered: 02-2007 |
Blindly bashing your "competition" either way is silly. I grew up in th city and live in the suburbs now, and, while I do miss certain things about the city (mainly proximity to downtown), I prefer living in the suburbs now due to a) my stuff not constantly being stolen/garage broken into, b) places to eat and shop in a mile radius without wanting to puke from the lack of cleanliness, c) vibrant and varied shopping areas, d) more people of the opposite sex that I might date in the area due to the mean of education/career-future plans and goals and variety of race and backgrounds/etc. By any standard except for proximity to downtown and traffic, it's hard to say that living in Detroit proper is better than living in somewhere with 1/10th the crime, much better schools, all the shopping, more chains, etc. except trying to just defend your current living situation or preference based on what you think is "cool." I LIKE the city proper, even with all of its problems, but bashing the suburbs based on nothing is just dumb and is actually worse than people overexaggerating Detroit's problems. | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 328 Registered: 02-2007 |
The suburbs are being sucked in to Detroit, Particularly Southfield and next on the list will be troy. So you might as well live in Detroit if you must live in these communities. The thing I hate about the city is that they only have a morning cleaning crew for downtown and they half do the job as it is. Downtown isn't very clean in my stand point and not enough promotion for cleanliness either (lack of trashbins, recycling bins, all that stuff). Downtown would be the nicest area, but it doesn't offer much more than just entertainment and a 9-5 for some folks, nothing for living cases like shopping and necessities. However, it's the neighborhoods that are the issues. You can't havbe a city without decent nieghborhoods, as that what the folks look at. The city isn't doing enough to help out teh neighborhoods. A lot of these are the nieghborhoods that border suburbs such as Southfield and Warren and you see the sloer you get to the city the more run down places look. It's all on how you want to function through life though and taste on where you choose to live. If ?I were to live in any of the two suburbs, It would be Troy for necessities and leisure but Southfield for the Urban feel. | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 329 Registered: 02-2007 |
The suburbs are being sucked in to Detroit, Particularly Southfield and next on the list will be troy. So you might as well live in Detroit if you must live in these communities. The thing I hate about the city is that they only have a morning cleaning crew for downtown and they half do the job as it is. Downtown isn't very clean in my stand point and not enough promotion for cleanliness either (lack of trashbins, recycling bins, all that stuff). Downtown would be the nicest area, but it doesn't offer much more than just entertainment and a 9-5 for some folks, nothing for living cases like shopping and necessities. However, it's the neighborhoods that are the issues. You can't have a city without decent nieghborhoods, as that what the folks look at. The city isn't doing enough to help out teh neighborhoods. A lot of these are the neighborhoods that border suburbs such as Southfield and Warren and you see the closer you get to the city the more run down places look. It's all on how you want to function through life though and taste on where you choose to live. If ?I were to live in any of the two suburbs, It would be Troy for necessities and leisure but Southfield for the Urban feel. | ||
Cmubryan Member Username: Cmubryan Post Number: 404 Registered: 11-2003 |
IMO out of all the cities that border Detroit, Southfield lacks the urban feel the most. It's the most suburban looking (wide roads with lack of sidewalks and streetlights, big open spaces). | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 331 Registered: 02-2007 |
However, it does have more Residential and Mostly Corporate Density than the rest. Troy doesn't have any feel. it's just a big city full of retail with scatterings of tiny homes and Office Suites. | ||
Jdkeepsmiling Member Username: Jdkeepsmiling Post Number: 212 Registered: 01-2006 |
Cmubryan, I know that many people are throwing many things at you on this thread, but I just wanted to suggest that you look into Wyandotte, downriver. I know a lot of people do not even think about this section of the Detroit Area, but it has low crime, stable schools, a great downtown, access to the riverfront, and housing prices that are well within your range. Commute time via 75 is about 10-15 minutes to Downtown. you can also take Jefferson right in as an alternate. Let me know what you think. BTW, I live in Plymouth, i just have family Downriver, and know it is often completely overlooked. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2610 Registered: 02-2005 |
Cmu, I agree with your assessment of Sfield, but what urban feel do Warren and Redford have? Those are some of the blandest places on earth. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 5646 Registered: 02-2004 |
Southfield and Troy WHAT DO THEY HAVE IN COMMON? 1. Southfield is mostly black while Troy is mostly white. 2. Southfield has 2 small Jewish Communities, and a small Chaldean Community while Troy has big Asian community, small East Indian and Bengadeshi community. 3. Troy has Oakland Mall and Somerset Mall while Southfield has Northland Mall. 4. Troy's Downtown is Big Beaver Ave. with lots of booming office buildings while Southfield has a Downtown with booming office buildings along the Lodge FWY and 9 Mile Rd. | ||
Yelloweyes Member Username: Yelloweyes Post Number: 107 Registered: 02-2007 |
Southfield or Troy? Detroit! | ||
Souldrummer Member Username: Souldrummer Post Number: 6 Registered: 03-2006 |
Dearborn is the suburb where it's at if you want to be close to Detroit. I've noticed that my west end neighborhood has become more diversified over the past six years that I've lived here. It's not so boring an white like before. | ||
Souldrummer Member Username: Souldrummer Post Number: 7 Registered: 03-2006 |
from the last post....Diversified meaning not just white Ford employees. (however generalized that may sound). There are a lot of young couples from various socio-economic backgrounds...white, middle eastern, asian, hispanic, black.... | ||
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill Post Number: 185 Registered: 09-2006 |
CMU,I'm a little confused about the Lafayette Park figures cited earlier. You can get into 750-850 square feet at 1300 lafayette co-op on a good floor for anything from 17000-26000 now, not 100,000 ( even some better) along with a monthly fee of around 775-820 including everything, Also you deduct a portion of your monthly fee for taxes and get about 100-125 a month back, therefore only costing about 675/month. That is cheap no matter where you live, and with the conveniences of downtown, the great views and the security in the building to me that makes alot of sense if you want to stay in Lafayette Park. 1300 is a deal compared to 800 square feet going on in "loft style" places. Go to http://vasileffrealtydetroit.c om/ to find out whats available at 1300 if interested, Remember the equity asking prices are highly negotiable now. You would be amazed what some people sell for when they are being transferred etc.. I know people payed as little as 10,000 on a sale that needed to happen quickly. | ||
Cmubryan Member Username: Cmubryan Post Number: 405 Registered: 11-2003 |
Detroitbill, do they allow medium size dogs? | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 200 Registered: 11-2006 |
Southfield is an older inner ring suburb compared to Troy which is newer and further out. 2 different flavors with pros and cons to each. Older=more character, but needs to be renovated. Newer=less character, but less maintenance work is needed. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 830 Registered: 06-2006 |
for all the Detroiters in this thread touting the importance and desirability of "diversity", I can't help but notice how you all seem to come up short once you go to the ballot box... http://www.ci.detroit.mi.us/ma yor/ http://www.ci.detroit.mi.us/le gislative/CityCouncil/Default. htm http://www.ci.detroit.mi.us/le gislative/CityClerk/clerk_main _frame.htm (Message edited by thejesus on April 04, 2007) | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8832 Registered: 10-2003 |
You really brought back a 2 week old thread to post that? Nothing like bringing a thread back from the dead to contribute so much. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 832 Registered: 06-2006 |
sorry...I missed the thread the first time, though I don't see how my point would have been any more or less valid two weeks ago than it is now.... anyway, I'm not trying to be divisive here...but I think it's a valid point...kinda goes against the old saying, "practice what you preach", ya know? | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8833 Registered: 10-2003 |
Where is your link to the Mayor's spokesperson (appointed) or Steve Tobacman (sp), Hansen Clark or any other non-black people elected. Your point of diversity rings hollow since Detroit has just as much diversity as near any other city in Metro Detroit. I would like to see more diversity in city governement but I would also like to see more diversity throughout the rest of Metro Detroit. If you could be so kind as to list all of the cities in Metro Detroit with any level of diversity in government it would be appreciated. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8835 Registered: 10-2003 |
Troy city council, mayor and city manager: http://www.ci.troy.mi.us/Counc il/ http://www.ci.troy.mi.us/Manag ers/ Looks like a pretty diverse bunch. Southfield: http://www.cityofsouthfield.co m/elected/ As many have said there is actually diversity there. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 836 Registered: 06-2006 |
lol, dude, you're slamming me in the other thread about two wrongs not making a right, and yet you're using the lack of diversity of Troy (quite random I might add) to justify a lack of diversity in Detroit? wtf? Also, you're refuting claims that I didn't even make...where did I ever claim that Troy was diverse or that Southfield was not? And why do Detroiters always opt to use Troy as the posterchild for all that is soulless and wrong? So they keep their city clean and have nice restaurants and shopping centers...why is that such a crime? (Message edited by thejesus on April 04, 2007) | ||
Viziondetroit Member Username: Viziondetroit Post Number: 1055 Registered: 11-2003 |
lol @ 101 Mile Road | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8839 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: How is Troy quite random. The thread asks between Troy and Southfield. If he asked to compare Hazel Park and Howell I would have used those. You bring up diversity (and Detroit's lack of it) on a thread asking about Troy or Southfield. quote: See comment above. quote: You bring up Detroit's lack of diversity asking about choosing between Southfield or Troy for potential moves. If you were addressing specific posts it may have made sense to acknowledge that. (Message edited by jt1 on April 04, 2007) | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8840 Registered: 10-2003 |
Now if you would have asked if I thought that Detroit leadership is lacking diversity I would have agreed. | ||
Masterblaster Member Username: Masterblaster Post Number: 25 Registered: 03-2005 |
CMUBRYAN is you are still looking at this thread, why not try HAMTRAMCK. It's urbane and it may be less expensive then downtown. And it is truly diverse, if you want that sort of thing. Also, why not give the west side neighborhood of Warrendale a try. I bet you can find a nice brick bungalow in decent shape for $100,000. And Warren Avenue in the Warrendale neighborhood is a bustling commercial street, so if you bought a house within a block or two of Warren Avenue, it might work for you. | ||
Ray Member Username: Ray Post Number: 874 Registered: 06-2004 |
Troy. How can you resist a city whose main drag is Big Beaver Road. I just wish they would rename Crooks as Titty Blvd. Oh, just in case the joke was too subtle, the guys who named Big Beaver also assigned the number 69 to the Big Beaver exit. |
