  Busterwmu Member Username: Busterwmu Post Number: 362 Registered: 09-2004 |
While looking for something else on youtube, I stumbled across this really cool 6 minute video from the late 1980s. It includes some old photos of trains in the station and the station itself, but the coolest part is a walk through tour of the concourse, main waiting room, and a few other parts of the station from 1987, the last year it was fully open and Amtrak trains stopped there. There is also some cool footage of steam and Amtrak trains on the terminal tracks. Here is what the youtube caption says: "I got this from a co-worker, Robin Tracey. She wrote and produced this for a show called Sunday Times back in 1987. It's a rare "video" glimpse of the MCS while it was still in use." I was never fortunate enough to visit MCS when it was still open, and I'm so young I would probably not remember it if I was. I have been in there one time, during the summer of 2003 for a quick photo tour. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =sbtyUsnrY2I It really saddens me to see what has become of it. I thought I would share this with you all, and I'd appreciate your comments and thoughts  In the 1987 walking tour, for those unfamiliar with the building: Starting around 3:00, they are in the passenger concourse. Starting just after 4 minutes you see the ticket windows. At 4:30 you get some very rare footage of an NYC steamer hauling a passenger train out of the trainsheds westbound. Followed immediately by Amtrak footage from 87. At 5:10 you get an awesome view of the Main waiting room, even though no one does any actual waiting there. Hope you enjoy it. Your comments are appreciated (Message edited by busterwmu on March 01, 2007) | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1483 Registered: 04-2005 |
Great Video!!! | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 769 Registered: 02-2006 |
Nice find Busterwmu ! | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 297 Registered: 07-2005 |
I loved it Buster. | ||
Archinnovator Member Username: Archinnovator Post Number: 17 Registered: 12-2006 |
Good find. It's interesting to see that the decay had begun to take a toll, even as the station was still operating. Like you, I never had the opportunity to see the station while still in use, and probably wouldn't remember anyway. It's rather surreal to see the front facade of the building completely intact, as I'm used to its current condition. Still, the building manages to convey an incredible sense of monolithic glory today, both inside and out. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 583 Registered: 10-2006 |
Same boat for me as I was born in '82. I was surprised to see that it was in such disrepair even in 1987. I bet if it were in that shape today in 2007 it would still be beyond the point of a plausible rehab project. | ||
Michmeister Member Username: Michmeister Post Number: 121 Registered: 10-2006 |
Tears my heart out, to see the shape it is in now. Absolutely unnecessary. Infuriating. Wonderful video, thank you. | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 1050 Registered: 12-2005 |
I went on a trip to Chicago out of the Michigan Central station in 1977, 10 years before this was shot. I remember going underground in the long white-tiled tunnels to get to the track that my train was on. I went back several times after that to pick up film cans that arrived by Amtrak freight. The place was in pretty good shape back then--thanks for finding this Buster | ||
Pdtpuck Member Username: Pdtpuck Post Number: 228 Registered: 01-2006 |
wow, the ole girl looks great! when are the cops moving in? | ||
Southen Member Username: Southen Post Number: 110 Registered: 08-2006 |
Fantastic video. I actually had Cousins as a professor a few years back at LTU. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2512 Registered: 02-2005 |
Thanks, Buster. As someone who utilizes the shell of a rail transit system we still have here, I am really infuriated and saddened at what we COULD have, and what we indeed used to have. It seems to me that the 80s and 90s were the decades that things like this unravelled the fastest in Detroit. People just stopped caring. MCS went from a world class depot with so many trains a day to nothing. Unbelievable. This is one of many things in this city and region makes me really sad about our society. | ||
Hans57 Member Username: Hans57 Post Number: 35 Registered: 05-2006 |
I find it amazing what 20 years of neglect will do to a structure like that. It's probably a far stretch to even consider a rehab at this point. (Message edited by hans57 on March 01, 2007) | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 588 Registered: 10-2006 |
Pdtpuck, they aren't. Kwame said that even if all the DPD and DFD move into that building, that they still wouldn't fill it. He also said that it is near impossible to demolish it as it is built with rail raod steel which is much stronger than typical structural members today. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2513 Registered: 02-2005 |
That's kind of cool. Somebody has to rehab it, because you can't get rid of it. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 873 Registered: 11-2003 |
"near impossible to demolish it" That's a bunch of BS. In practical terms it may be too expensive because there's no demand for the site, and extra measures would have to be taken to protect the nearby RR tracks. But, there's NOTHING built by humans that can't also be torn down by them. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2514 Registered: 02-2005 |
To some extent it is figurative language. Expensive, though, is the key word. Even tearing down Tiger Stadium is going to be expensive. Tearing down MCS would be a long, costly venture. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 874 Registered: 11-2003 |
I guess I gave that snippy reply because it seems that Kwame might be using "nearly impossible" as an excuse to completely give up on tearing the building down. Don't get me wrong-- I have as much emotion for the building as anybody-- but it's getting to the point where I wish the place would be put out of its misery. Unfortunately, Maroun's descendants will no doubt inherit it when he dies and continue to let it go to hell. | ||
Fareastsider Member Username: Fareastsider Post Number: 173 Registered: 08-2006 |
Wow! I wish I was able to see that place occupied. how sad nothing has been done in 20 years! oh wait! I forgot that is going to soon be the shining central beacon of the Detroit police department! | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 1170 Registered: 01-2005 |
Great video that brings back many warm memories. Thanks for that link, Busterwmu. | ||
Quinn Member Username: Quinn Post Number: 1164 Registered: 01-2005 |
AHHHH great! Garnett was a prof. of mine at Lawrence. Funny guy. Sad video actually...boo hoo. Glad to have seen it though! THANKS! | ||
Mountainman Member Username: Mountainman Post Number: 130 Registered: 02-2006 |
Seeing that video, and looking at MCS now .... is probably the saddest feeling I've had in years. | ||
Mayor_sekou Member Username: Mayor_sekou Post Number: 564 Registered: 09-2006 |
Im in a bad mood now. | ||
Crash_nyc Member Username: Crash_nyc Post Number: 772 Registered: 08-2004 |
Awesome vid. I was in Florida just the other night talking to my grandfather, and he was telling me about the old days at MCS, where he worked as ticket agent for many years, He doesn't own a computer, so I'm trying to figure out how to get a VHS copy of this for him. Any ideas? | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1390 Registered: 10-2003 |
MC Depot could serve as a "new" Detroit City Hall with all departments consolidated in one building. No money to fund something like that, though. | ||
Corktownmark Member Username: Corktownmark Post Number: 276 Registered: 12-2004 |
Wow great video. So what was the name of that building again -- Michigan Central Station or was it Michigan Central Depot? I can't seem to keep my building names straight 8=P. | ||
Carolcb Member Username: Carolcb Post Number: 135 Registered: 11-2006 |
Thanks Busterwmu, great to see and sad at the same time. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 591 Registered: 10-2006 |
Yeah, I don't know why Kwame mentioned to us that it would be difficult to tear down and that it was built with rail road steel. It might have just been an interesting trivial fact in his mind. No doubt that an implosion would probably be fastest. | ||
Detroitstar Member Username: Detroitstar Post Number: 526 Registered: 01-2006 |
Paul, I believe the issue with implosion is that the amount of charge it would take to pull the building down would also take the not so well built buildings nearby which are older and not built with railroad steel. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 694 Registered: 06-2006 |
Southen...you took what I think is the coolest shot of MCS that I've ever seen... would you mind linking to it for others here to see? It's the one on flickr with Jan 7 as the upload date... | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 695 Registered: 06-2006 |
I always thought that building would make a great courthouse...seems that it would have to be public money involved in rehabbing the site...I don't know if a private developer would want to touch it...though who knows what will happen if the BC project turns out to actually be successful, which is still possible | ||
Queensfinest Member Username: Queensfinest Post Number: 46 Registered: 08-2006 |
Detroitstar, what older buildings are nearby? It seems the station sort of stands on its own. How large of a radius might be effected here. I could be wrong but.. Also, had the FBI ever looked at moving into this structure as opposed to moving into a newly built property downtown? | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1487 Registered: 04-2005 |
There is one obstacle standing in the way of any development. Our dear friend Manny. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 875 Registered: 11-2003 |
Fury13 said, "MC Depot could serve as a "new" Detroit City Hall with all departments consolidated in one building." It seems like the current space at the CAY Municipal Center is larger than the available space at the depot. "Railroad steel" is a term that exists only in Kwame's mind. There's no such name for any kind of steel, unless you're talking about the actual steel used in the RAILS of a track. Corktownmark asked, "what was the name of that building again" There was never a name carved into the building. RR publications called it both MC Depot and MC Terminal. In later years it was New York Central Station, Penn Central Station, Amtrak Station, etc. Pick your favorite. | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 309 Registered: 07-2005 |
Here you go Thejesus: http://flickr.com/photos/south en/349549345/ | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 310 Registered: 07-2005 |
http://flickr.com/photo_zoom.g ne?id=353099413&context=photos tream&size=l | ||
Mdoyle Member Username: Mdoyle Post Number: 39 Registered: 10-2006 |
Has anyone been able to get in contact with someone to enter the building legally? If so I'd be curious to know who to contact. I know WSU did an art project there in the early 90's but I believe that was before Maroun owned it. In the Fall I was given a written warning for being behind the station from the Dept of Homeland Security and the the officer said I could do whatever I wanted to get in the building as long as I wasnt behind it near the tracks even if the ones in use are behind 15 foot tall fences.Just have to avoid Maroun's goons. | ||
Tkelly1986 Member Username: Tkelly1986 Post Number: 244 Registered: 01-2004 |
Fury13: I like the idea of consolidating all the city offices there and selling the land CAY is on. Heck, with the land around MSC, they could build a new DPD HQ and justice campus. Isn’t there an old Free Press building around there that could be rehabbed too? Well, I guess I am only dreaming, but you got to think the CAY property is worth more than the MCS, so why not sell that instead of our parks. (Message edited by tkelly1986 on March 02, 2007) | ||
Titancub Member Username: Titancub Post Number: 34 Registered: 08-2006 |
Unfortunately nothing will come of it until its financial viable especially since its in private hands and the local economy is in the state it is in. But you never know, the BC was on its way to demo until it was saved. Given the cost it will probably take tons of layers of creative financing just like BC. The video is fascinating and I'm very grateful that it was found and posted. | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 1599 Registered: 11-2003 |
Thanks, Buster. I showed your video to my Sr. law partner who recalled going off to War in 1943 in a tearful goodbye with his parents in the lobby of the MC station. I understand that emotions ran high in the station with all the troops headed off to final destinations unknown. Surprisingly, he did not think that he has ever stepped foot in the place since then. | ||
Blort Member Username: Blort Post Number: 33 Registered: 02-2007 |
A written warning from homeland security for being behind the MCS? That's a public road. Maroun's Goons are funny. They always use scare tactics. Such a cool building, inside is a photographer's wet-dream. | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 346 Registered: 11-2005 |
Wow. Simply wow. | ||
Mdoyle Member Username: Mdoyle Post Number: 40 Registered: 10-2006 |
No I ment on the old tracks behind the station that are no longer in service. Where the sheds used to be. Apparently because you can follow the tracks to the tunnel to canada is against the law to be in that vacinity. This was a Homeland Security officer that wrote me a warning. The officer said he'd seen plenty of people going in and out of holes in the fence and he never reports them to marouns security because it wasnt his job. | ||
Sportsfan Member Username: Sportsfan Post Number: 1 Registered: 01-2007 |
Newby to responding.But what a great video! I've treasured this place for years.Even thought of sneaking in.But at 47 and out of shape figured better off looking at pics then running from cops.Thanks so much for the video. | ||
Billybbrew Member Username: Billybbrew Post Number: 249 Registered: 07-2005 |
What a coincidence. I sent Mike that very same video the same day you happened to find it on youtube....WOW...amazing... | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 2671 Registered: 10-2004 |
The Border Patrol routinely park their squad cars near the tube on the stub end of 14th Street, south of the tunnel moat. Every so often, any number of jurisdictions park their cars atop the tube--DPD, railroad cops, Border Patrol, etc. During warmer weather, I'll jog or run nearby and spot them there more times than not. | ||
Saintme Member Username: Saintme Post Number: 33 Registered: 08-2006 |
It's disappointing to know that MCS actually looked half decent for a period during my lifetime and I missed it! I've only known it to be covered in shit. Great video, keeping fingers crossed for MCS's future. | ||
Baltgar Member Username: Baltgar Post Number: 53 Registered: 06-2006 |
^couldn't agree more. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 603 Registered: 10-2006 |
"'Railroad steel' is a term that exists only in Kwame's mind. There's no such name for any kind of steel, unless you're talking about the actual steel used in the RAILS of a track." Burnsie, that was the impression that I got from Kwame's comment. Not sure if it is even verifiable. These last few posts reminded me that isn't there some federal policy that government must try to rehab an existing building whenever possible for government departments. Seems to me that I heard something like that somewhere once. | ||
Cman710 Member Username: Cman710 Post Number: 246 Registered: 07-2006 |
Thanks so much for posting this video. For me, who has only been to Detroit once, and who would have been too young to have anything but the faintest memories of MCS open, the video really was exciting (easily the coolest YouTube video I've ever seen). To be able to see the station while still in operation, in color, rather than through old still photographs, was really fabulous! While I fear a rehab may not be possible, I really do hope that the building may one day be salvaged. | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1380 Registered: 11-2003 |
What is amazing is that during when that video was filmed, so little of MCS was still in actual use. There was no restaurant or barber shop. I'm sure most of the offices were empty. | ||
Cman710 Member Username: Cman710 Post Number: 247 Registered: 07-2006 |
Yes, the building was mostly an unused shell at the time. In the video, you can get a palpable sense of emptiness, that while the building may have once bustled, the traffic had long died. Perhaps Southen or someone else knows the following: Does any of the wood paneling from the ladies' waiting room still exist, or has it been entirely ravaged by looters? | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1382 Registered: 11-2003 |
I think it was so under-utilized those last few years, it was just too expensive to maintain for just use as a train station. If there was a continued business presence to subsidize train usage, it would still be there today in use. But at that current time, office space in Detroit was not very sought after. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 876 Registered: 11-2003 |
Amtrak made a good-faith effort at rehabilitating its parts of the station. But in 1985, Conrail moved its 200 office workers out and sold the station to William Spencer, head of Kaybee Corp. Amtrak had no one to share the costs of maintaining the building after Conrail moved out. In 1986 Spencer announced plans to locate in the depot the headquarters of a new company he started up, but obviously nothing came of those plans or a zillion others. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1399 Registered: 10-2003 |
Fury13 said, "MC Depot could serve as a "new" Detroit City Hall with all departments consolidated in one building." It seems like the current space at the CAY Municipal Center is larger than the available space at the depot. Doubt that. And remember, Wayne County Offices use up the "court tower" side of the CAYMC (nee City-County Building). Why not give the entire CAYMC over to Wayne County (they could consolidate, too)? The MC Depot is huge. It could probably house all City offices as well as 36th District Court. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 614 Registered: 10-2006 |
What? The 36th district court is up on Madison by Ford Field. What does that have to do with the City-County Building or Michigan Central? | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1402 Registered: 10-2003 |
They've been wanting to relocate the 36th District Court for a long time. And most offenses heard by the court are city-related. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 877 Registered: 11-2003 |
The city side of the CAYMC is 13 stories. The MC Depot may be a bit bigger but it's not THAT huge. At any rate, thinking that the city is going to relocate there is nothing more than a daydream. Have you written Maroun, Council and Kwame about your idea, Fury13? | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1406 Registered: 10-2003 |
Nope, it's nothing more than a daydream, as you said. I have no desire to write the mayor or City Council or anyone else. The square footage of the MC Depot is 500,000. I believe the total square footage in the CAYMC is a little more than 700,000, which would mean that the city side probably has 300,000-350,000. There is also room on (or adjacent to) the MC Depot site for additions or other buildings, to create a city government "campus." There is no room to expand at the CAYMC site. | ||
Busterwmu Member Username: Busterwmu Post Number: 363 Registered: 09-2004 |
Thanks for the great comments and thoughts everyone. I've enjoyed reading them all. This is a great snapshot of the depot in its final years that is hard to find just about anywhere else. It makes me so sad however, especially knowing that it once rivaled Chicago's Union or Washington's Union or any of the other great passenger terminals.... Its too bad that Conrail pulled out when they did. Amtrak was in the midst of a moderate restoration of some of the public spaces in the 1980s. I believe they were aiming to fix some of the problems highlighted in the video... That is highlighted in the Arcadia book about the MC Station. Which by the way is another good source for Amtrak era MC photos and information. Anyhow, thanks for the comments and thoughts. Keep them coming. | ||
Ventura67 Member Username: Ventura67 Post Number: 111 Registered: 12-2003 |
Unbelievable footage. As a long-time photographer and amateur history buff of the station (post closure) I've not seen anything so moving, beside the building itself. I will bookmark it and view it often to get what ever I can! As it was I kept the mouse on the pause button for still images just in my first run! Thank you for posting it, your love for the building comes through. It is most interesting to see decay that I assumed started with the closure to be clearly present in these pre-closure images, e.g. the water damage in the waiting room ceiling. It really emphasizes the rath of neglectful ownership and, especially, the vandals since '88. Seeing the man leaning on the ticket counter, the gleam of the mahogony benches and the shine of the columns and floors was spectacular enough but most of all the lights burning in color in a motion picture was perhaps the greatest treat! Thank you for the post. I have a hour and a half multi-media presentation of the building I've created that I've shown to a few camera and history clubs. If you of the biggest fans want to get together at some point for me to show it, let's talk. | ||
Bulletmagnet Member Username: Bulletmagnet Post Number: 91 Registered: 01-2007 |
Ventura67, I would love to see your presentation of the MCS. The video at youtube left me sad for this place. Busterwmu, thanks for pointing it out for us. I took an Amtrack out of there shortly before it closed down for good back in the 80's. I set out on a trip to South Bend to visit a pal of mine for a few days. The train station was perhaps the most impressive part of the trip, and I'll always remember it.I may have a few photos of it stashed away , and if I do, I'll post any worthy ones. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 3730 Registered: 08-2004 |
You can forget about the MCS ever becoming the new City Hall. Remember back in the late 1990's when Mayor Archer proposed moving City Hall to the former GM headquarters in New Center? You never heard so much squaking in your life... a few of the African-American city employees and council members put up a big stink about the "hidden agenda" of getting them out of downtown. So the end result is that the State Of Michigan has a world class building for all their Detroit offices and courts, while the city employees are still crammed into the very "dated" offices on Jefferson. Next time you take the People Mover, just peek into many of the lower floors of the CAY Building. The offices look really dumpy, with binder on window ledges, etc.... while the State offices are in the spacious palatial grandeur in New Center. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot! (Message edited by Gistok on March 04, 2007) | ||
Cman710 Member Username: Cman710 Post Number: 248 Registered: 07-2006 |
What really remains unfortunate is that the city is so strapped for cash. Whether or not it would be practical for the city to relocate its offices in MCS, an $80 million or more cost simply will be too great for the city to tackle, given its budget woes. I can hear it now, "You are spending $80 million to fix up an old building while our children starve, while we cannot even get our garbage picked up on time!" Anyway, as a side note, I was reading about a building in New York City that I find interesting, the Battery Maritime Building. This building, which had fallen into great disrepair, sits at the southeast tip of Manhattan near the Staten Island Ferry terminal, and is itself a sort of ferry terminal (for the Governor's Island ferry). In the past few years, the city spent $60 million renovating it, and the building still has no general use, besides serving as the dock for the Governor's Island ferry. That just goes to show that in NYC, where money is more plentiful, a building can be restored for $60 million and remain relatively unnoticed. And in Detroit, it seems nearly impossible to get even half that to put towards restoring an architectural gem. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 630 Registered: 10-2006 |
I swear that I think that there is a federal program out there somewhere that allows the city to get the funding for fixing up a historical building if it moves the city government departments into there. Something about rehabbing a historic landmark for government offices or something. Has anyone heard of anything like this? | ||
Rsa Member Username: Rsa Post Number: 1039 Registered: 10-2003 |
i just forwarded that video to my boss. i knew this before, but he shared some more memories with me about the station in that year. he had started up a small architecture firm specifically to work on renovation/rehabilitation plans for the station. they did, in fact, get hired by the developer and had offices in the office tower of the station. their name was MCA for michigan central architects. conrail did move out, but he said that all of the employees were not entirely out until 1987. when they left, it was just their offices and the developer left in the building. the developer made quite an effort to get tenants into the space but (obviously) to no avail. he moved his offices out of the building when it was obvious that the developer had given up trying to do anything. after the station closed and the developer stopped making efforts into doing anything to the building, heat, water, and security was present in the building. this security force was primarily off-duty DPD officers. when they stopped getting paid by the developer, they placed a lien on the building. the lien went thru and they took control. they then hired another security force to secure the building, which had quite a difficult time doing so. this, coupled with the officers inability and lack of resources, led them to selling the station to matty maroun. who subsequently turned off the power, water, locked the doors and walked away from it. he was not very sure about timing, but i believe it occurred thus: 1985-developer buys building and starts trying to redevelop it. 1987-station closes and final conrail employees move out. 1988-developer gives up and last tenants move out of building. 1990-officers take control of the building. 1992~1994(?)-sold to matty maroun. my boss said that the station was still in very good condition at the time of closure. yes it needed a good cleaning and some repair work, but was mostly intact. he said that the office tower faired very well over the years. all of the original panelling, doors, fixtures, finishes, and even furniture were still there when he left. i have talked to some other architects, hired by the officers to walk thru the building in 1990 and 1991, and they said even then the building was still in good shape. power was on, everything was still there (including the chandeliers) and break-ins had mostly been thwarted. everyone that i've talked to that have visit the building during this time period are all of the same opinion: the current owner of the building did absolutely nothing to protect the building and it went to hell extremely quickly. now, i could be mistaken on some of my facts, but i thought i'd pass on information/opinions i've learned about the station during the time of it's downfall. | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 323 Registered: 07-2005 |
A postcard of the NEW Michigan Central Station:  | ||
Ookpik Member Username: Ookpik Post Number: 106 Registered: 01-2007 |
What did the "old" station look like? | ||
Aarne_frobom Member Username: Aarne_frobom Post Number: 48 Registered: 10-2005 |
Don't know what the 19th-century MC Depot building looked like, but I presume it was a generic small-city train station. I think it was demolished shortly after the "new MC Depot" was finished. But one interesting thing about the "old" station is that its platforms were still visible in an aerial photo I have a print of. I think it was taken in the early 1970's, and showed the platforms in the block south of Jefferson, at the river, between where 8th and 10th Streets would be if they extended south of Jefferson. In more recent photos, the land is re-graded, and may have something on it now, but the platform ruins persisted for 60 years after being obsoleted. This is directly over the under-river tunnel, which is on the same alignment as the tracks leading to the 19th-century depot. I had a college roommate who worshipped the New York Central railroad. This was a vast system, of which Detroit's MC Depot was only one outpost. Buildings on almost the same scale existed in Buffalo, Chicago, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Rochester, Toledo, and with smaller stations in hundreds of other towns between Manhattan and Mackinac City. Almost all are flattened or derelict today, but my railroad-fan roommate was unsentimental about all that. "It's gone, and you can't bring it back," he said of efforts to preserve or revive some of the NYC passenger-train service. So it's not just Detroit. For decay, Detroit's station is matched by Gary, Buffalo, Rochester, among others. | ||
C_p Member Username: C_p Post Number: 12 Registered: 11-2006 |
Fantastic video. I used to take the GTR from downtown Detroit to my Grandma's in Gaines,and those steam whistles sure bring back memories. Steel type is based on carbon content,and alloying elements (AISI) not on service it is used for. They'll never be able to tear down Mich Central structure, and would be better off demoing pieces of crap like JLA,COBO,RenCen,the Gas building and moving Detroit centreville to MichCen building area.Heck you already have a ball park ready for use | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 883 Registered: 11-2003 |
The first MC station in Detroit (built ca. 1838) was somewhere near the eastern end of Michigan Ave. The RR track ran in Michigan Ave. for several blocks westward before veering over to its own R/W. The second MC station (built no later than 1850) was near the foot of Third Street. It had a simple Greek Revival facade. The third MC station (built early 1880's) was also near the foot of Third St. It was a substantial red brick edifice. A Dec. 1913 fire that originated in its tower prompted a hasty move to the barely-completed Vernor station. After demolition of the tower, the station was converted to freight usage only. It closed sometime in the 1960's, IIRC, and was demolished in the early 1970's. Note: The two different MC Third St. stations are not to be confused with the adjacent but separately owned Fort St. Union Depot. | ||
Mikem Member Username: Mikem Post Number: 3168 Registered: 10-2003 |
Ookpik, start here, Detroit's 2nd Train Terminal, and work your way back through the threads. There should be some pictures of the old station there. | ||
Bongman Member Username: Bongman Post Number: 1435 Registered: 12-2003 |
You want that station fixed ? It's very easy. One more casino license to a major player in the industry. I'm only in my mid 40's, but I went to that station many many times when I was a kid. Granny took the train to Montreal to see the family frenchies. The last time I was there was for the Spirit of '76 train that was on display. | ||
Udmphikapbob Member Username: Udmphikapbob Post Number: 282 Registered: 07-2004 |
Something I found while researching Corktown's history for a class...the expansion of what was then downtown was predicted to move westward, taking over the run-down immigrant neighborhood of Corktown. When development took off in the New Center, things never got off the ground in the area around MCS. Hasn't it always seemed odd that a city's major train station be located in a residential neighborhood? Once the streetcars quit running, MCS was cut off from downtown for good. The preservation of the Corktown we know and love today may have in fact come at the expense of a successful "MCS-centric" business district. | ||
Rsa Member Username: Rsa Post Number: 1040 Registered: 10-2003 |
actually, at the rate of growth predicted when MCS was built, all of downtown was supposed to expand that far. grand boulevard was laid out to become a new type of "main" street (thus the name of grand when, in present day, there's only a handful of "grand" things on it). the only portion that really made it this far was the new center area (also named to be the new center of the city). alas, the great depression came and crushed the rapid expansion of the time... | ||
Udmphikapbob Member Username: Udmphikapbob Post Number: 283 Registered: 07-2004 |
from wikipedia: Further compounding MCS's future problems was the fact that no large parking facility was included in the original design of the facility. So when the interurban service was discontinued not even two decades after MCS opened and streetcar service following in 1938, MCS was effectively isolated from a large majority of the population. maybe mike illitch is hoarding parking lots in anticipation of building a new train station? | ||
Illwill Member Username: Illwill Post Number: 86 Registered: 11-2003 |
It's hard to understand what happened to Detroit in just a few short years. Then to compare Chicago's Union Station and New York's Penn Station which are STILL thriving in their original glory. WOW! That was a beautiful place. It really puts the Detroit's economic conditions in perspective. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 884 Registered: 11-2003 |
New York's Penn Station was destroyed in the early 1960's for Madison Square Garden and a "replacement" station built in the basement. Grand Central Terminal, though, is still intact (except for the rear office portion) and thriving. Only commuter trains these days, though. The magnificent concourse of Chicago Union Station was destroyed in 1969 for an office building. The headhouse/waiting room is still in use, though. Udmphikapbob wrote, "Hasn't it always seemed odd that a city's major train station be located in a residential neighborhood?" The MC Station's location was dictated by the location of the new MC RR Detroit River tunnel. The tunnel was built at the spot that would most efficiently connect existing MC lines in Detroit and Windsor. If the old MC Third Street Station would have continued in passenger use after the tunnel was opened, any passenger trains also using the new tunnel would have had to made time-consuming backup moves. Many of MC's passenger trains went from Chicago THROUGH Detroit to New York City via Ontario and Buffalo. If a RR tunnel had been built closer to downtown, the MC would have had to build new trackage on the Windsor side to connect w/its existing Windsor trackage, or pay a competing RR for trackage rights. Land acquisition would have been more difficult on both sides of the border, as well. | ||
Busterwmu Member Username: Busterwmu Post Number: 365 Registered: 09-2004 |
This is a neat link to a few of the remaining reminants of the original New York City Penn Station, which was demolished in the 60's for that beautiful Madison Square Garden (cough cough). Pretty cool stuff to see if you know where to look out there. It is ironic that MCS's defining feature, the 13 story office building, is also the biggest hinderence to its rehab. I bet if it were only the main waiting room, arcade, concourse, and platforms, it may not have been abandoned in the first place nor would it be nearly as gargantuan (sp?) of a project to rehab. Interesting. | ||
Billybbrew Member Username: Billybbrew Post Number: 269 Registered: 07-2005 |
We will probably be judged not for the monuments we build, but by those which we've destroyed. Ada Louise Huxtable Architecture Critic (on the demolition of Penn Station) | ||
Billybbrew Member Username: Billybbrew Post Number: 270 Registered: 07-2005 |
“Once benchmarks of civilization and style, these "gateways" to the cities were palaces of splendor and objects of civic pride. Now they are caverns of gloom.” Ada Louise Huxtable Architecture Critic (referring to Railroad Stations) | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 3195 Registered: 10-2003 |
RSA's timeline is partly correct. Last train leaves station 1986. Amtrack places a trailer just west of MCS, it becomes temporary station until New Center Station is completed. A group of developers bought the building and were making improvements in 1987; they planned to operate a "Trade Center" there. One of my friends worked on renovation of the elevator system. So work was actually being done. A stock market crash in 1987 wiped out the fortune of the first group of developers who then sold the building to a downriver real estate developer who predicted the arrival of casino gambling. Unfortunately, the guy was a few years ahead in his predictions; He ran up a huge bill for security patrols (and would sometimes patrol the grounds himself, armed with a pistol), and lost the building in the previously mentioned lien process. About the time Maroun (Vampire) took control of the building, many of the windows were broken out, almost overnight. In 1992, Maroun's company announced that the building would be restored. A sign touting the restoration, along with a tiny dumpster appeared in front of the building, and several bags of trash were apparently carried out. After many complaints by area residents, a fence was actually put around the building, but for several years, the place was wide open, and barnesfoto used to ride his bike through the lobbies. Stay tuned for the next announcement on the fate of the MCS by Detroit International Bridge Corp, or its' paid allies, Kwame and Carolyn Cheeks Kilpatrick. | ||
Rsa Member Username: Rsa Post Number: 1044 Registered: 10-2003 |
thanx barnes; i forgot to mention the world trade center idea and the trailer. | ||
One_shot Member Username: One_shot Post Number: 315 Registered: 11-2003 |
Thats gotta be one of the coolest videos I've seen on here. To see inside and what it used to look like, with lights and some life!! It gave me the chills listening to the old guys talk and how he said it might be the last time they walk outta there. So sad that its laying there in it's current state. THANKS for sharing! | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 899 Registered: 11-2003 |
Barnesfoto-- Amtrak actually closed the station on Jan. 5, 1988. (Freep, 12/31/87) | ||
Harpernottingham Member Username: Harpernottingham Post Number: 144 Registered: 04-2006 |
Gary Glaser made a documentary on the train station in 2004. Good stuff: http://www.glaserproductions.c om/trainstation.html | ||
Cman710 Member Username: Cman710 Post Number: 261 Registered: 07-2006 |
Thanks for the link. I am going to definitely purchase the set of Detroit documentaries! | ||
Enduro Member Username: Enduro Post Number: 85 Registered: 11-2006 |
Wonderful video! Many thanks! | ||
Bertz Member Username: Bertz Post Number: 549 Registered: 11-2003 |
Barnesfoto, to your knowledge, how long did it take the scrapers to remove the copper skylights? | ||
Corktown_paddy Member Username: Corktown_paddy Post Number: 6 Registered: 12-2006 |
I took a good long look at the place after the St. Patrick's Day Parade (well only the front as my other half was ragging on my butt something fierce to get going) It's downright Prozac territory to see what happened to that gorgeous building over the twenty years. My one thought was how many soldiers left on those trains in WWII (other wars as well) and never came back. The overused phrase of what stories it could tell... | ||
Photoall Member Username: Photoall Post Number: 5 Registered: 03-2006 |
In 1955 my father sang in the General motors Choir that performed in the New York Central Railroad Station. I remember going their with my family and enjoying all the festivities. Various choirs sang from thursday dec 15, 1955 continually daily from 7am till 11pm up until Dec 24 when the concert stopped after the 9pm performance. I have the original 1955 program Christmas season in Detriot, Michigan, that my father had saved with all his other music material. It is a shame that detriot or the government can't or won't bring this great historical building back to it glamour as in the hey days of Detriot. If this building will ever be rebuilt I would loan this 1955 Christmas program to them to display. It would be a great part of Detriot history.. Alan wieling | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 3239 Registered: 10-2003 |
Burnsie: The last train service out of MCS was in 86. I was there. Amtrack operated out of some trailers just NW of MCS for several years until the New Center station opened. Sorry, Bertz, I don't remember when the copper went bye-bye, I was out of the state in 87-89. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 906 Registered: 11-2003 |
Barnesfoto-- What follows is cut and pasted directly from the Freep online archives, available through http://nl.newsbank.com --------------------- December 31, 1987 Section: NWS Edition: METRO FINAL Page: 3A; Memo:SEE ALSO CUTLINE PAGE 1A AND PHOTOSTORY PAGE 12D A GOLDEN AGE ROLLS TO AN END AS TRAIN DEPOT SHUTS ITS DOORS PATRICIA CHARGOT Free Press Staff Writer When train No. 353 leaves Detroit for Chicago at 11:40 a.m. Tuesday, Michigan Central Depot at Vernor and 16th Street will close its classic doors for the first time in its 75-year- history -- perhaps for good. Michigan's finest monument to the golden age of railroads, with its cavernous waiting room and 68-foot-high pillars, will lie silent as Amtrak, the station's last tenant, moves its passenger operations to a new temporary facility next door on W. Vernor, said Sue Martin, senior director of public affairs for Amtrak in Washington, D.C. | ||
Busterwmu Member Username: Busterwmu Post Number: 366 Registered: 09-2004 |
Yes, that date at the beginning of January 1988 is the one I have always heard. I never knew what the last train out was, so thank you Burnsie. A sad day, but good to see that it got coverage. Thank you for your continued comments, thoughts, memories, and the like. It's been a great read! | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 3245 Registered: 10-2003 |
My bad, burnsie...maybe they announced the closure in 86. That's when I shot some pics. Dates get fuzzy after 20 years, and then there's the matter of me being out of state. I wonder if anyone remembers the aborted Rave that almost happened in 89...or was it 90? Or 91? Some clever guys rented generators, light banks, swept out the lobby, fenced the open elevator shafts...The giant windows over the front doors were awash in colored lights. The crowd was just arriving....Then the Third Precinct boys shut the whole thing down. Somebody lost some major money that night. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 907 Registered: 11-2003 |
Barnesfoto-- That's OK about not recalling the exact date-- I just like to be precise about dates, partly because of all the history papers I wrote in school. A newspaper ad for the would-be rave is reproduced in Kelli Cavanaugh's (sp?) book. | ||
14509glenfield Member Username: 14509glenfield Post Number: 596 Registered: 05-2006 |
Passenger train service is a mere image of what it used to post-WWII; and then again how many times do you go out for a horse and buggy ride? How much in history becomes archieved/different era/time marches on? I CANNOT RELATE TO MC DEPOT..(outsider lookin in on RR's) as to it's ownership or physical structure today. I JUST GREW UP ON TRAINS. Favorite trek..Detroit to Newark..PRR out of the Fort St.Station, Red Arrow. Long gone before the merger with NYC. Try and preserve the MC depot like an endangered species. So sorry I can't get more political. | ||
Cman710 Member Username: Cman710 Post Number: 269 Registered: 07-2006 |
I bought Gary Glaser's documentary about the station last week, got it yesterday, and watched it right away! It runs about 28 minutes and is excellently done. I would definitely recommend it to others. The documentary contains some great interior video footage, and also some really interesting interviews that humanize the building. For $35, you can get that documentary, also also one about 8 Mile Road and the Hudson's Building, along with a longer documentary about Tiger Stadium. I have not had a chance to watch the rest, but the MCS documentary is worth it alone! | ||
Aarne_frobom Member Username: Aarne_frobom Post Number: 49 Registered: 10-2005 |
How many people noticed the photo in the "Old Car Factories" thread of Marshal Foch departing a decorated MC Depot to congratulate the Dodge Brothers machinists who'd manufactured armaments for him in 1918? | ||
Busterwmu Member Username: Busterwmu Post Number: 387 Registered: 09-2004 |
bump | ||
Tammypio Member Username: Tammypio Post Number: 121 Registered: 04-2005 |
Awesome video...I love that building. Seeing the video did, however, make me even sadder at the thought that this building may never be used again. | ||
Urbanoutdoors Member Username: Urbanoutdoors Post Number: 306 Registered: 11-2005 |
There were a bunch of people in MC today. I saw at least 2 photographers with tripods and three other people on the roof. As well as 4 people on the second floor. | ||
Bohemianrobot Member Username: Bohemianrobot Post Number: 28 Registered: 02-2007 |
I was lucky enough to see a couple of people base jump off the MCS not too long ago. It was quite the interesting sight! | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 984 Registered: 11-2003 |
I'm for adaptive reuse (I don't like the term "preservation"-- sounds like buildings are put in mothballs and formaldehyde), but I'd rather have the MC Depot put out of its misery now rather than sit and rot for years more. Even though it's "there," for me it's dead and gone and I have no hope for it. But I'm glad that others still do. I didn't have that same resolved hopeless sense about the Book-Cadillac, the Kales, or even Hudson's and the Statler. Nothing will happen at the depot except more rot as long as Maroun controls it. But of course he cannot even put up a damned decent barricade and board up the windows, so he's certainly isn't going to put up the money to tear it down, much less restore it. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 985 Registered: 11-2003 |
Oops. Moroun, not Maroun. Either way, it spells despicable. | ||
Nere Member Username: Nere Post Number: 36 Registered: 04-2007 |
It pains me to see the difference from the original state to the current state of the MCS. I had the privilege of sneaking in one night in 2005. It seemed so strange. My friends went to the top floor. I was really conscious of gravel falling to the floor every time they went up a step. It was really creepy. They made it down okay, but looking back at the situation, I should've gone up to the top floor. It would've been quite an experience. It also pains me to say that the place is overrun by graffiti. I wish they'd do something with the building. There's nothing more beautiful than watching the sunrise from inside. | ||
Eastsidedame Member Username: Eastsidedame Post Number: 163 Registered: 12-2006 |
I heard somewhere that the police were thinking of making that their HQ. It would be a big plus for that area of town, which needs help, let's face it. What can we do to help save the MCS? | ||
Nere Member Username: Nere Post Number: 37 Registered: 04-2007 |
"I heard somewhere that the police were thinking of making that their HQ. It would be a big plus for that area of town, which needs help, let's face it. What can we do to help save the MCS?" I think they finally decided that it could not fit everyone they'd need to fit, and it would cost too much, I believe. Aside from petitioning or something, I don't know what else could be done to save MCS. Another idea would be to fix up that little area between Mexican/Corktown by adding businesses and landscaping. That way they'll know we would like something done with it. | ||
Lizaanne Member Username: Lizaanne Post Number: 18 Registered: 06-2007 |
Heartbreaking. What a loss. ~Liza |
