  Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 562 Registered: 10-2006 |
What's the latest on the progress of this facility downtown? I would guess that it would be well underway since there was no site demolition. Anyone have some good pics of the structure going up? | ||
Dannaroo Member Username: Dannaroo Post Number: 34 Registered: 05-2006 |
The Detroit Economic Growth Corp. just posted their RFP/Q for the facility at the start of the month and the deadline isn't until 2 March, so no physical progress has begun yet. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5161 Registered: 10-2003 |
That's correct. Here's the link: http://www.degc.org/main.cfm?l ocation=8 It's finally on its way to becoming a reality. | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 525 Registered: 12-2006 |
About time. | ||
Sticks Member Username: Sticks Post Number: 226 Registered: 08-2005 |
I get the feeling that once the RPTC is built, assuming Capitol Park is no longer used for bus transfers, and the condos are finished at the Book-Cadillac, I think the CP area is gonna absolutely boom. | ||
Tetsua Member Username: Tetsua Post Number: 1121 Registered: 01-2004 |
I'm hoping so. | ||
Trainman Member Username: Trainman Post Number: 343 Registered: 04-2006 |
It's easy to get there. Just jump on the Rosa Parks freeway and you will be there in minutes. Or, use mass transit and enjoy the ride. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 566 Registered: 10-2006 |
Rosa Parks Freeway? Maybe I am just totally missing a good joke... Anyway, does the DEGC design the building, or does whoever is awarded the RFP cover that? It sounds like there is already some sort of design out there as the RFP "invites experienced and qualified firms with proven experience in Engineering and Construction of complex tensile membrane structures to submit their qualifications and sealed lump sum Proposals..." Just sounds like to me that there is already a relatively complete design underway as the RFP calls for "final engineering, shop drawings for steel and fabric, including patterning, fabrication and installation of a custom designed tensile structure and polycarbonate cladding. Work does not include concrete foundations that work is being procured under a separate General Construction Contract." | ||
Trainman Member Username: Trainman Post Number: 344 Registered: 04-2006 |
Yes, there really is a Rosa Parks freeway in Detroit. A portion of I think? I-96 is named in her honor. I think SMART should bring back the 285 bus in Livonia and name it the Rosa Parks bus route. I'm serious about this because I worked hard to save this bus line and when I rode it to work, I transffered to the Michigan line and saw the Rosa Parks building. I got SMART officials to come to Livonia on my own to post bus schedules and run early morning service and won bus service for many people. We should all fight to bring back SMART to Livonia by all of us refusing to give up our SMART bus seats to the white men of Livonia city hall. They took the buses from the Detroit residents and gave themselves raises by refusing to fight the freeway expansionists. (Message edited by Trainman on February 26, 2007) | ||
Reetz12 Member Username: Reetz12 Post Number: 139 Registered: 09-2005 |
The RFP out now is for the Fabric Tent that will go over the bus terminal area. The General Construction with all other trades was due last month. I belive the completion date was June 2008. | ||
Beantown Member Username: Beantown Post Number: 36 Registered: 10-2006 |
CharlottePaul, the design is indeed already developed. There were quite a few articles in the local papers that showed the concept, but they have expired. Check these out for the concept (the first one has the best pictures): http://urbanplanet.org/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t20447html http://www.modeldmedia.com/features/transform50.aspx http://www.modeldmedia.com/features/transit39.aspx  | ||
Leland_palmer Member Username: Leland_palmer Post Number: 233 Registered: 08-2004 |
Rosa Parks downtown bus terminal gets builder in $10.8-million deal "Detroit’s planned downtown bus terminal took a big step toward reality today. The city’s Economic Development Corp., a quasi-public board that helps finance new projects, approved the selection of Detroit-based DiMaria Building Co. as the general contractor for the new Rosa Parks Transit Center." BY JOHN GALLAGHER FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITER http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll /article?AID=/20070227/BUSINES S04/70227036 | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2479 Registered: 02-2005 |
Just saw this. Apparently it will be done in 16 months. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 5582 Registered: 02-2004 |
That is the ugliest piece of architectural crap that I have ever seen! | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 273 Registered: 07-2005 |
Looks like that butt ugly airport in Denver. I am sure Rosa will roll over in her grave a few times. | ||
Beantown Member Username: Beantown Post Number: 37 Registered: 10-2006 |
I applaud the effort to bring a modern architectural theme to Detroit, even if the execution isn't PERFECT. But modern architecture is more polarizing by nature. We can't be exclusively neo-classic turn-of-the-century forever... | ||
Stephenvb Member Username: Stephenvb Post Number: 9 Registered: 02-2006 |
I agree with Danny. It's crap. Look at some of the other views and try to rationalize the tent structure. It looks like a series of dry-docked ship masts and is completely out of scale with anything around it. Maybe it's PB's attempt at Green Architecture to capture rainwater and drown landscaping or anybody standing underneath the spouts. It's contrived and I wouldn't expect much better from PB. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2484 Registered: 02-2005 |
I've seen a lot worse. It doesn't offend me that much. I guess it's because preservation is my number one concern and this project doesn't involve tearing down any old buildings. | ||
Spitty Member Username: Spitty Post Number: 534 Registered: 07-2004 |
Maybe the scale is off in the renderings or I'm seeing it wrong, but to me it doesn't look like those tents will really offer much shelter...maybe some shade, but not shelter from rain or snow. Maybe it's more important to let all the bus fumes escape than it is to keep the wind from blowing the rain in. | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 926 Registered: 03-2006 |
Someone who works for the city must LOVE Chene Park. The Riverwalk pavilions will look this way too. I love modern architechture but despise the Chene Park tent look. Why can't the transit center be more Boll Family YMCA (IMO, the most beautiful modern building built downtown in recent years)?  | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2489 Registered: 02-2005 |
Good point. You can see the results at Richard Park at the foot of the MacArthur Bridge. | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 530 Registered: 12-2006 |
Tents are going up everywhere! Though I have to admit it is starting to drive me crazy! | ||
Apbest Member Username: Apbest Post Number: 436 Registered: 03-2006 |
I kinda like the way it looks | ||
Stephenvb Member Username: Stephenvb Post Number: 10 Registered: 02-2006 |
The white tent should look pretty nice after a couple years of diesel exhaust. (Last tent comment from me.) I am looking forward to DeMaria trying to construct that bit though. As far as the building, it looks like nothing more than a glorified bus-stop. Very uninspiring and a missed opportunity. Can someone more familiar with the plans/area help me out? Are they closing a portion of State Street to combine the blocks? I can't quite tell from the renderings, but are they also closing Park Place along the People Mover? I really hope the answer is "no" for closing Park Place. Then I can understand why they wouldn't have approached this project from a more inter-modal point of view. From a site planning point of view, I could argue flipping the bus staging with the station (if the bus staging could be worked out) to create a stronger connection to the people mover. Extend this station to Michigan Avenue to create an even stronger transportation link. I am happy to see new work. I just wish, for once, that design firms getting these "high-profile" projects would ease up on their automotive induced delivery time-frames to really understand the context, program, etc. to deliver quality architecture. | ||
Reetz12 Member Username: Reetz12 Post Number: 142 Registered: 09-2005 |
State Street will be eliminated from Park to Cass for the building. Park street will remain open, although that is where the buses will be underneath the tents. Inside the terminal is nothing special. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 577 Registered: 10-2006 |
Stephenvb, what should "more than a glorified bus-stop" look like? An extra glorified bus stop? Many who create architecture feel that a building's function should be able to be perceived by its structure, such as is the case with the downtown Y. To me this design looks nothing like a bus stop at all... | ||
Trainman Member Username: Trainman Post Number: 346 Registered: 04-2006 |
Maybe Wal-Mart will build a new bus terminal when DDOT goes broke without a tax on fast food or a property tax increase or any other tax increase as long as our state and federal governments don't have to pay. Wal-Mart officials refused to replace the bus terminal in Livonia at city hall and said that SMART costs too much. Maybe with their low, low prices we can all save lots of money so we can vote in more tax increases to save DDOT and SMART???? | ||
Warrenite84 Member Username: Warrenite84 Post Number: 42 Registered: 01-2007 |
I like the design. I happen to like Chene Park also. There's nothing wrong with modern design so long as it serves it's function extremely well, and is pleasing to the eye. If I remember correctly, the picnic shelters on the River Walk have a tent-like design too. IMO, this should be the last building downtown to use the tent style design. Any more would be too much. | ||
Genesyxx Member Username: Genesyxx Post Number: 677 Registered: 02-2004 |
I personally don't think it's that ugly. Just because it doesn't look as architectural (see brown, grey) as the rest of the city, doesn't mean it's butt ugly. I'm just glad something's getting built around here, at now they can start to market Capitol Park. | ||
Stephenvb Member Username: Stephenvb Post Number: 11 Registered: 02-2006 |
I'll address my bus stop comment in a bit, but first, I am happy that something new is getting built, especially in this part of town. Hopefully it leads to more redevelopment in this area. Charlottepaul, while I agree that it is sometimes appropriate for "...a building's function should be able to be perceived by its structure...," I was looking for some basic architectural responses in this building. It is a transit center, and as such, will be an arrival point for many people downtown. I would expect the building to be inviting, easily understood at one glance, and provide a memorable experience. There is a great sense of arrival when you drive under the canopy and step off the bus, but it stops there. Where is the sense of arrival to the building? Other than very utilitarian (almost an afterthought) vestibule and a canted curtain wall on each end, there are no distinguishing details that say come on in. Will a glass/masonry wall welcome commuters fresh off the bus? The design decision appears to be to give people the choice to enter the building or continue on to the bus/city through spaces between buildings. This space provides entry to both the center and the staging area, but they are treated like alleys. If these truly are the entry points, treat them better than left over space between program elements and please, please don't place columns at the center of both ends of these alleys. Treat them like arcades and give visitors a memorable experience as they pass through. From the street, the building is not very inviting. From an design point of view, I don't understand providing great glass curtain walls only to change to masonry at the street level. It wants to be open, but not really. Pedestrians are denied views of the commuter and retail activity meant to draw them in to this facility. I would either have to be across the street before I might see any signs of life on the second floor or standing right in front of any of the three entrances. The large column element at the entry is out of character with the rest of the design. On a building making statements with canted walls and columns, this is a contradiction. It's placed strategically to deny sweeping views of both into the station and out to the city. It better have a very clear purpose, and don't tell me it's to hold up that corner of the roof or to provide advertising space (i.e steam vents at U of M) to anyone with duct tape and flyers. It's clear that the design effort went into the canopy over the staging area. The transit building looks like the result of making the most of the left over space rather than the result of a careful circulation analysis. The entries are ambiguous, the exterior wall treatment confusing (does it visually engage with the city or not), and as a whole doesn't provide a memorable experience for the commuter. It provides temporary shelter with no sense of arrival, which is more or less a bus stop. My opinion is that the tensile structure is misplaced, but exciting (I hope this is the last tensile structure.); the building is background noise. The two combined, don't create the memorable experience that this project could have had. | ||
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336 Post Number: 3 Registered: 02-2007 |
As of 2/27, DeMaria had not received official notification. There is a separate bid for the tensile structures, including final engineering, so who knows how much that will add to the cost. The 25% overrun allowance seems a bit excessive to me | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 232 Registered: 12-2006 |
Actually 25% is on par for a rather loopy construction project. This isn't something basic, like a three-bedroom house. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 1035 Registered: 04-2006 |
Blue Water Transit just completed a huge transit center project that came in a half million under budget. It includes CNG bus refueling. | ||
Spitty Member Username: Spitty Post Number: 537 Registered: 07-2004 |
Isn't Chene Park eventually supposed to be replaced or moved to Hart Plaza? If that were to happen, then there would only be three of these tent like structures. I'm sure people will get all tear eyed for Chene Park when the Rosa Parks Transit Center reminds of the gold old days at the old Chene Park and how the new state of the art Chene Park isn't as good as the crappy old one. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2501 Registered: 02-2005 |
Spitty, I believe that was in one of the mayor's visions, nothing hard and fast. I happen to think it is a great idea and a very appropriate consolidation considering how HP is underused and Chene Park is in a zone where we want to maximize waterfront for residential use. Plus downtown, probably Cobo alone, has the parking capacity for easy access to concerts at HP, whereas major events in the soon to be developed Chene Park neighborhood will have a crunch on parking when all those vacant lots are built on. The best thing about the mayor's plan is that it called for the demolition of the Ford Auditorium. Downtown will have really turned a corner when that thing is gone. | ||
Stephenvb Member Username: Stephenvb Post Number: 12 Registered: 02-2006 |
Spitty, Mackinaw: Is there anything (speech, article, etc.) that describes the Mayor's vision to move/create a Chene Park-like structure to HP and teardown Ford Auditorium? I think it's a great idea and would like to find out if it offers any hope of transforming HP to Saarinen's original naturalistic master plan. I like the idea of moving/placing a Chene park-like structure at HP. Not that I'd want to keep replicating the tensile structure vocabulary around downtown, but it would go a long way toward creating a more lively HP. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2502 Registered: 02-2005 |
I couldn't find anything off the bat. He may have been quoted in a newspaper article that is now archived. I'll post anything I find. | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1378 Registered: 11-2003 |
The tent thing at the new transit center reminds me of the ground transportation area at the Orlando Airport. But this is an improvement over what currently exists and it is actually connected (sort of) to the People Mover, which actually makes it sort of like it was intended, the loop on a connected transit system. | ||
Apbest Member Username: Apbest Post Number: 439 Registered: 03-2006 |
the original MyrtleBeach Sun-News (????) article is removed and archived but here's the modelD link http://www.modeldmedia.com/int henews/ford47.aspx | ||
Adamjab19 Member Username: Adamjab19 Post Number: 753 Registered: 11-2003 |
This looks very similar to the Grand Rapids Transit center that you can see heading south on 131 just past 196. Looks kind of neat there although it isn't surrounded by buildings. | ||
Apbest Member Username: Apbest Post Number: 440 Registered: 03-2006 |
Also, a previous thread in regards to Kwame's Ford auditorium plans, which I love https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/76017/74673.html?1149501 965 what if we had some things awesome and modern like Chicago's new Millenium Park ampitheatre right on the river | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 2188 Registered: 10-2003 |
I don't get it. It's not apparently clear that this is supposed to be a transit center. All of the design effort went into the most superficial characteristic of the entire project. Not good. Stephenvb articulates quite well on the flaws of this Spanish galleon of a bus station. The cable-stayed edges rise entirely too high for the scale of the buses and waiting area. I would rather see more of the project budget put into passenger comforts than artistic statements. | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 928 Registered: 03-2006 |
^Agreed. What do the bizarre tent structures have to do with taking the bus? One really cool thing they could do with this transit center is install turnstiles and allow folks to purchase their bus ticket/bus card, go through the turnstile and wait on a boarding platform for the bus (ala Speedlink). Now that would make this transit center AWESOME. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5166 Registered: 10-2003 |
I'm usually critical, but I don't see how this design is bad. Maybe it has nothing to do with transit, but they are damned if they do/damned if they don't. If they'd have put forth some bland, modern proposal, or some PoMo bus station everyone would have still been bitching. I personally think this will breath some fresh air into a rather stale area of downtown, architecture-wise. DDOT could have done much, much worse. | ||
Wilus1mj Member Username: Wilus1mj Post Number: 174 Registered: 05-2005 |
Does the Times Square people mover stop run right by the site for the bus terminal? | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 535 Registered: 12-2006 |
Yes. If you look at the picture, the people mover is in the foreground towards the bottom. | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 5 Registered: 02-2007 |
That terminal design isn't necessarily "welcoming". It's reminds me of that old Apple Health building on Outer drive the Wellness Plan. I was hoping for a more like Greyhound Bus Terminal look (Message edited by Urbanize on February 28, 2007) | ||
Apbest Member Username: Apbest Post Number: 453 Registered: 03-2006 |
another view http://cmsimg.detnews.com/apps /pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=C3&Date= 20070227&Category=UPDATE&ArtNo =702270415&Ref=V2&Profile=1001 Q=100&MaxW=500 | ||
Gman29 Member Username: Gman29 Post Number: 7 Registered: 08-2006 |
Looks nice but it will just be another eyesore in a few years because we don' t know how to keep tings clean. The bums, homeless, panhandlers, crack addicts will just have a new place to call home. | ||
Hans57 Member Username: Hans57 Post Number: 42 Registered: 05-2006 |
At least they won't be calling Capitol Park home. | ||
French777 Member Username: French777 Post Number: 123 Registered: 10-2006 |
those pic's are really cool | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1501 Registered: 10-2003 |
http://instantkarma.com/iknews _042900_detroitwish.html But what will happen to Yoko Ono's tree? | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 657 Registered: 12-2006 |
"If they can move Mariners Church... " I actually have no idea. | ||
Trainman Member Username: Trainman Post Number: 372 Registered: 04-2006 |
It's easy to get to, just jump on the Rosa Parks freeway. It's newly paved, fast and safe. Or, take the bus, wait an hour or possibly more because it's late, then get on and enjoy the ride. You will be sooo happy that the bus finally comes after being bored to death standing around and waiting. When you come back to the downtown, you will use the freeway. This is why the Michigan Department of Transportation will be building a new one Billion dollar freeway expansion to downtown Detroit. It will be you, the truckers and Wal-Mart. http://savethefueltax.tripod.c om/state.html | ||
Hybridy Member Username: Hybridy Post Number: 80 Registered: 08-2006 |
the idea of recreating hart plaza should hardly be an issue at the forefront of detroit's to-do list. yes, something needs to change...i am for more green space to enhance the connection to the riverwalk, but that is a separate thread. the fountain should stay as is, it is somewhat of a landmark to the city, but with the events happening there-electronic and country events-how can there be a lot of green space without having to rethink those events...my vote. it just seems foolish that the city concentrate on investing in something that need no improvement-for the time being. dean v does have a point with the transit tensile structure with regard to all of the exhaust, but again the city is faced with the ever present dilema of any development is good development. it is a tight spot to be in. if the city is to do anything at all it should be done correctly, otherwise its a waste of resources. this may be premature, for i don't know all the conditions, but detroit is filled with failed redevelopment projects. a few that i can think of off-hand, the public market on livernois between the lodge and fenkell. i've also observed a small park in the same area with benches and such that has become a resting place for trash. mcnichols from woodward to hamilton has sidewalks of brick pavers with benches at various spots and west of livernois. there are a number of blocks paved from storefront to street with pavement with a few benches. does anyone even use those benches? most of them are broken or bent beyond use. what ever happened to a sense of green space? livernois has this new median from udm to 8 mile, but its become a resting place for trash and miscellaneous auto parts. there isn't even grass in the medians from 7 to 8 mile, they're just mud. does the city even have it in the budget to maintain these medians or even finish planting them? i know trees aren't an option, but shrubs could suffice as a natural barrier. its just sad to see all these half-assed attempts to revitalize the city where it matters, beyond the cbd of course. i'm sure these are but a tiny bit of failed projects around the city. people want change and our society has taught us that it be instant, but i am willing to hold out a few decades for better light to shine on the d. i'm not trying to be hypocritical about my previous statements, but priorities have to be made city-wide. |
