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Detroitman
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Post Number: 1053
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 5:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Can these 6 neighborhoods be saved?

Crumbling areas get Kilpatrick's attention

David Josar and Amy Lee / The Detroit News

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20070219/M ETRO/702190371/1003
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Gtat44
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Post Number: 13
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 7:23 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Can they be saved? I have only been away from home for 3 years, so I speak somewhat from experience. Growing up on the east side and frequently delivering to the west side. I would drive through neighborhoods all over Detroit. On Sunday mornings I would get up after the sun rose and pick a section and "explore".
I lived in the 7 & Gratiot, Outer Drive & Van Dyke, Harper and Cadieux and also the Chandler park area. There is always a common denominator in whether a neighborhood survives. The land owner.
It is not governments job to revive these areas but on the other hand, they can help.
In the case of the Grissoms look what they have done over the years to their home. That is pride!
Giving huge fines to land owners of apt. complexes if they don't maintain them and putting a portion back into a neighborhood fund, for homeowners to borrow at little or no interest to improve their house could help also. (pipe dream).
The bottom line is government can pump all the money they want into a specific area, but, until landlords and homeowners take pride in the place they live nothing will change. Something as small as cutting the grass, fixing a front door, pulling a fallen gutter down instead of leaving it hanging can do wonders in improving the look of the neighborhood. I lived next to a home for 3 years, on a corner where the elderly man passed away. His family lived in California and wasn't able to get back for almost a year to empty the house and put on the market. I cut the grass, trimmed the bushes, pick up the circular papers and shoveled the snow up until I moved myself at no pay. It's a matter of pride!
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1953
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Post Number: 1306
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Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 8:28 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This neighborhood-focused approach is a current trend in Detroit community and economic development. The city, The Skillman Foundation, LISC Detroit, the Community Foundation for Southeast Michigan, and the Knight Foundation, are all using a similar approach, in different neighborhoods. The fact they all of these key community stakeholders are approaching different neighborhoods is telling to whether or not this approach will work. Here is a link to a map of the geographic boundaries of target zones selected by the afformentioned organizations:

Map of 'Hoods
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Detroitplanner
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Post Number: 986
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 8:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Brightmoor has a long way to go. It was considered a rough area ever since I was a boy in the 1970's. Any work done started by this mayor may take a good 30 to 40 years to reach fruition.

Rosedale Park is already in Good Shape, as is a lot of the area around Livernois.

Woodward Ave is a no-brainer. Lots of Development there right now with a general push to the north.

EEV is a no brainer too, closeness to the Pointes will help this area remain stable.

I don't know much about the other neighborhoods being proposed as they are too far away from where I live or I've not spent a great deal of time in them.

Whatever neighborhoods you choose the City needs to:

1). Increase police presesence, and go after street peddalers of narcotics, hookers, etc; as well as go after code violators that make the neighborhoods eyesores.

2). Provide more park space that is both passive and active.

3). Work closer with the school district as well as the existing non-school district related schools (colleges, universities, private and parochial schools).
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Ed_golick
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Post Number: 549
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Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 8:59 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Can't save the area along Woodward if the Board of Education closes Northern High School and all its feeder schools as planned.
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Yelloweyes
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Post Number: 74
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 9:15 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Agree, schools and education should be a major part of any revitalization plan, as should recreation. Kwame needs to use his "influence" on the board.
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Walterwaves
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Post Number: 96
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Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 10:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You can't revitalize any neighborhood without major business and fresh people.

The forumers should get together and try to come up with a strategy to woo in businesses and people since the politicians won't.
I'm afraid its the only solutuion I can see because because leaving it up to the politicians in the city just ain't cutting it.
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Detroitplanner
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Post Number: 989
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 10:48 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with Gtat, I now have a chain saw and am going to go after the brush in the alley with it this spring! I'm tired of having my part of the alley in good shape and the rest of it impassible. All I need is some long-ass extension cords and I could do the whole city!

Now if I could just do something about the folks who park on their lawns and put bulk out on non-bulk days.....

(Message edited by Detroitplanner on February 19, 2007)
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Cambrian
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Post Number: 645
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Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 12:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I like how the article points out a good example of neighborhood like Bagley community has x amount of grocery stores, while a lesser example like north end has none. I would like to see more stores owned by farmer jacks and kroger in those communities. Those are good union jobs that people living in those areas can work. This would provide a livelihood other then drug sales or prostitution. One problem with Family owned businesses like the party stores and markets in Detroit, they only employ family members of the owners and not a one person working there lives in Detroit. Another is there is not large selection of fresh healthy foods. Rather there are marked up packaged and canned goods.
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Professorscott
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Post Number: 197
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 12:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The concept makes a lot of sense; there aren't the resources to try to revitalize all 139 square miles at once. And it's good, after decades of the unrelenting (and only somewhat successful) focus on downtown, to finally see some attention paid to where people live.

The most important thing the City can do is to create sufficient infrastructure to attract middle-class people. The poor are stuck; they can't afford to move so they have to put up with whatever environment they're in. The middle class is more portable and won't tolerate high crime, poor services and crumbling, unsafe schools.

The article in the paper pointed out some missing pieces of private-sector infrastructure (more check-cashing places than banks, etc.) but those come when the economic demographics of the population create demand for them. The first thing is for the City to provide adequate public safety, to pressure the school board to clean up the schools in those areas, fix streets and street lights, beef up public transportation and so on.

Once it's a nice place to locate, people will locate there, then businesses will follow. Kroger won't put a store in an impoverished neighborhood anywhere; it makes no business sense. People have to come first, and it's the government's job to attract them.
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Ed_golick
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Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 12:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The north end has the King Cole market. Been there since the 1940s. It was destroyed by fire a couple years ago and rebuilt bigger and better.
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Urbanoutdoors
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Post Number: 120
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Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 8:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have driven through Brightmoor quite a bit in the past few months and it still has that sense of one of the roughest areas in the city but the work that John O’Brien and Northwest Detroit Neighborhood Development has done in that area is amazing but they can only do so much. I really applaud their efforts in saving Stoepel Park and gathering the Land for the Post office on Fenkell if they can just build business around that and continue to restore the housing stock to a habitable state I feel the area could do a 360 but it would take a huge collaborative effort. I went through and surveyed some residents in that neighborhood and there biggest concern was the crime and lack of city services if that can be addressed than the housing stock can survive.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5527
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Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 10:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Professorscott,

You quote that the most important thing the City can do is to create sufficient infrastructure to attract middle-class people. The poor are stuck; they can't afford to move so they have to put up with whatever environment they're in. The middle class is more portable and won't tolerate high crime, poor services and crumbling, unsafe schools.

I SAY

IN DETROIT: THE POOR ARE STUCK BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT USING THEIR BRAINS TO PROBLEM SOLVE ANY OBSTICLES AND TAKE INITIATIVE FOR THEIR ACTIONS, MOST OF THEM ARE CARRYING THEIR DARK PAST IN THEIR BACKS. IF ONLY THE POOR PUT GOD FIRST IN THEIR LIVES THEN BEHOLD THE THEIR NEGATIVE THOUGHTS IN THE PAST WILL BE GONE AND THE POSITIVE THOUGHTS WILL COME TO THEM. SOMETIMES POOR DO NEED SOCIETY TO HELP THEM BUT SOMETIMES SOCIETY CAN TURN AGAINST THEM AND THEIR GOVERNMENT LEADERS WOULD TURN AWAY SO WE NEED TO HELP THE POOR IN ANY WAY IN ORDER TO GET THEIR BRAINS WORKING THAT INCLUDES THE MIDDLE CLASS.

You quote that the article in the paper pointed out some missing pieces of private-sector infrastructure (more check-cashing places than banks, etc.) but those come when the economic demographics of the population create demand for them. The first thing is for the City to provide adequate public safety, to pressure the school board to clean up the schools in those areas, fix streets and street lights, beef up public transportation and so on.

I SAY

TO DO THAT YOU NEED COMMUNITY UNITY AND POWER. YOU NEED PEOPLE WHO CARES ABOUT THE CITY AND THEY WILL DO ANYTHING THEIR POWER TO MAKE A SAFE AND BETTER DETROIT.

You quote that once it's a nice place to locate, people will locate there, then businesses will follow. Kroger won't put a store in an impoverished neighborhood anywhere; it makes no business sense. People have to come first, and it's the government's job to attract them.

I SAY:

IN DETROIT IMPROVERISHED GHETTOHOODS IS PART OF THE EVERY DAY LIFE. I SEE NEIGHBORHOOD BANKS, CVS, RIGHT AID, WALGREENS, FOOT LOCKER, ARAB-OWNED SUPERMARKETS AND CONVENIENT STORES, MCDONALD'S, TACO BELL, BURGER KING, KFC, CONEY ISLAND, CHURCHES, POPEYES BANK ONE AND MANY MORE IN THE GHETTOS OF DETROIT. THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THE POOR AND LOW-INCOME FOLKS NEED INSTEAD OF THEM GOING TO THE SUBURBS. SCREW KROGERS FOR THEY SCREW DETROIT FOR THE SECOND TIME. I NEVER SHOP THERE EVER SINCE THEY LEFT THEIR 7 MILE AND GRATIOT AREA. ALSO MOST GHETTOHOODS ON DETROIT HAS EXPERIENCE MORE NEW RETAIL STRIPS AND ONCE CORPORATE FRANCHISES BRING THEIR BUSINESSES THERE, MORE BUSINESSES AND PEOPLE WILL COME. AND IT WORK LIKE A CHARM.

DETROIT IS IMPROVING BUT ITS STILL IN ITS EARLY DEVELOPMENT STAGES IT WOULD TIME AND PATIENCE SO I WANT THE PEOPLE THE DETROIT AND THE SUBURBS TO HELP ALONG AND DON'T LEAN ON YOUR LEADERS FOR SOLUTIONS.
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Mayor_sekou
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Username: Mayor_sekou

Post Number: 544
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 10:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

DO YOU ALWAYS FEEL IT NECESSARY TO TYPE IN CAPS????? IS THIS SUPPOSED TO MEAN THAT YOU ARE HOLLERING OR EXCITED?
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5529
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Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 10:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

YES!!!! and I'm sick and tired of hearing depressions of Detroit.
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Professorscott
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Post Number: 198
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Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 12:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The world is what it is. Things are what they are.

The poor are stuck because they are poor. They did not bring this upon themselves; it happened. I was homeless once, and thank God I no longer am. This did not happen because I was not using my brain; that is a bigoted and overly simplistic view of life.

The government must do things differently than it has done in the recent past or Detroit will remain how it is today. This is not an opinion; this is a fact. If you open the refrigerator and there is nothing good to eat, then you wait five minutes, there will still be nothing good to eat. It is fantasy to think otherwise.

You can see the Detroit border with Dearborn from an airplane. You can see the Detroit border with Grosse Pointe from an airplane. The only difference is government.

Kill the all caps. Don't shout at me. I am not the problem.

Professor Scott
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5532
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Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 9:02 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Professorscott,


You quote that the poor are stuck because they are poor. They did not bring this upon themselves; it happened. I was homeless once, and thank God I no longer am. This did not happen because I was not using my brain; that is a bigoted and overly simplistic view of life.

I SAY

" The poor don't have to be stuck. If they're going to be poor. They have to be ready and while they are being poor, they must use their brains to problem solve any obsticles and put God first in their lives and tune away from those negative thoughts. There is way out from being poor. You did it Professorscott, you have got out from being homeless because you have use your brain that God give you. Other people didn't because something negative happen to them a long time ago either by force or by accident."

You quote that the government must do things differently than it has done in the recent past or Detroit will remain how it is today. This is not an opinion; this is a fact. If you open the refrigerator and there is nothing good to eat, then you wait five minutes, there will still be nothing good to eat. It is fantasy to think otherwise.

I SAY

" Why do you need the government to help you? Sometimes our leaders will help the people and sometimes they don't. Our leaders don't normally say IF I BECOME YOUR REPRESENTATIVE, I WOULD PROMISE TO HELP YOU ALL IN ANY WAY. 'PROMISE!' in that bold word. They don't say it all the time. Our American politicians these days are NOT meant to serve the people; their main duty is to what's good for society by creating PEACE, ORDER AND OBEDIENCE and NATIONAL SECURITY to the U.S. Constitution. They are the mediators connecting with God and Man, American's straight Christian dominate ideological culture and new wave fanatics and this nation and the global village in which we called PLANET EARTH through economics and diplomacy. I don't need the government to babysit me and you don't them either. Let them serve society. We can throw them out if they violate the U.S. Constitution."

You quote that you can see the Detroit border with Dearborn from an airplane. You can see the Detroit border with Grosse Pointe from an airplane. The only difference is government.

I SAY

" Yes, only of our leaders do what the U.S. constitution say and not lean to their own understanding to benefit people and society."

(Message edited by danny on February 20, 2007)
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2577
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 9:13 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Danny, remember that six of seven profs veer hard left, on average. Then you will know where most of them are coming from--the big government way of everyday life, otherwise known as socialism.

PS is probably among that gang of six out of every seven "workers" who are far from being on any sweatshops--being on college campuses. Some folk think that most profs have already reached their eternal resting places. So, his natural reaction is for the government to do most things for most people.

(Message edited by LivernoisYard on February 20, 2007)
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Yelloweyes
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Username: Yelloweyes

Post Number: 79
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Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 10:53 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The government can help these neighborhoods, but the neighborhood's fate are ultimatly decided by the people that reside there. Bottom line.
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Mackinaw
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Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 11:04 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

These neighborhoods all need very different things. East English Village just needs to sustain its population...perhaps using some tax breaks, and I supposed it could use some more nice retail establishments on Harper. It is not even close to being in the same league as Brightmoor. Brightmoor has all the bad characteristics of an inner city neighborhood, i.e. crappy services and primarily underclass inhabitants, but it has none of the traits of urbanism that reinvestment and gentrification can build. The homes are some of the shittiest homes in the city, are extremely small, and there is a Redford-esque density...it will continue to be a dumping ground and and not a place where non-Detroiters with disposable income will want to ever move in. Brightmoor, in other words, needs special programs, just to keep the residents alive and well. Fostering local businesses which will employ Brightmoor residents could be the best tact.

Last time I spent a day in Brightmoor, I did not get the sense that it was that too unsafe (compared to other neighborhoods), just the sense that it is dirt poor.

The far east side, which now has more vacant lots than homes, is the most important neighborhood to be targeted for redevelopment, in my opinion. It's not on that list, but the mayor has a pre-existing Far East Side Plan, and some development has taken place here and there.
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Jt1
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Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 11:26 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mackinaw - They are not in the same situation. KKs plan called for improved in 2 stable neighborhoods, 2 that could go either way and two that are struggling very badly.

The snews article didn't touch on a very simplistic but important point.
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Danny
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Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 2:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Livernoisyard,

I believe that the govt' should represent society while the people do the thinking for themselves, that too is part of Socialism, a government system where the union of the people are the leaders and not the actaully leaders themselves. People don't need to lean on the primary one government system to cure their emotional problems or clean up their communities. The people can be the government and fix up their society for themselves. Rich, middle and poor alike.

Yelloweyes,


You quoted that the government can help these neighborhoods, but the neighborhood's fate are ultimatly decided by the people that reside there. Bottom line.


I SAY

" The government don't need to help us. Let them serve society through diplomacy until the ultimate crisis comes the people can help other people in community by using unity."
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Dougw
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Post Number: 1563
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Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 4:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good point Jt1. The original press release lists the six neighborhoods, and which ones fall into each of those 3 categories:

http://www.ci.detroit.mi.us/ma yor/releases/2006/NDNeighborho od_Intiative.htm

quote:

The Redevelop Neighborhoods are:

Northend (Woodward to Chrysler Freeway I-75, E. Grand Boulevard to Webb)
Brightmoor (Grand River to Schoolcraft, Evergreen to Telegraph)

The Redevelopment Strategy will involve a complete overhaul of an area of the City where extreme blight and abandoned structures exist and create an entirely new land use strategy for the neighborhoods that benefits citizens in the existing and surrounding areas.

The Revitalize Neighborhoods are:

Grand River Greenfield (Schoolcraft to Fenkell, Greenfield to Schaefer)
Osborn Community (Eight Mile to Seven Mile, Van Dyke to Gratiot)

The Revitalize Strategy will infuse a combination of private, non-profit and governmental resources to provide intervention strategies to reverse negative social and economic trends that are impacting an otherwise stable neighborhood.

The Reinforce Neighborhoods are:

Seven Mile and Livernois Communities (Six Mile to Eight Mile, Livernois to Wyoming)
East English Village (Mack to Harper, Cadieux to East Outer Drive)

The Reinforce Strategy will strengthen neighborhoods that possess the characteristics of a stable tax base inclusive of adequate recreational activities, require minimal investment, and have a high percentage of home ownership by using various retention and growth strategies.


In one sense, this in basically an experiment to determine which type of neighborhood will benefit the most from this type of strategy. Maybe they'll find that the borderline neighborhoods (such as Osborne) are helped the most by this, and the roughest neighborhoods are too far gone to help. Or, vice versa, maybe it will help the roughest neighborhoods the most.
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Royce
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Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 5:20 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I live between the Brightmoor and Rosedale Park neighborhoods. The homes in Rosedale Park are over 50 years old, and many are beginning to show there age. Many of the people who are moving out of Rosedale Park are moving to the suburbs with newer homes.

In order to keep these people in the city, the City needs to develop new homes and market them to the people from Rosedale Park. Where's the logical area to build these new homes? Exactly, Brightmoor.

The only way to uplift the Brightmoor area is to attract people with money to it. Given the close proximity to Rosedale Park, Brightmoor could be the new hot spot for new homes in the city. Also, with its proximity to Telegraph and I-96, Brightmoor could be the logical spot to build middle to high income homes. Makes sense to me.
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Lmichigan
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Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 5:50 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's going to be quite the sell to try and manuever moving and well-off Rosedale Parkers to Brightmoor. You can do this when the place being moved to has some unique quality to it (i.e. moving the wealthy to declined and decimated, but historic, inner-city hoods with character), but, I see it being a very tough sell to ask Rosedale Parkers to stay in the city in Brightmoor. You'd have to put together quite the packet of incentives to make that sounds attractive, to be honest.

Brightmoor's future (as was its past), and short-term success, will be in attracting and retaining working-class to middle class families, IMO, not in a futile attempt to attract the upper class from surrounding neighborhoods. It's just wasn't ever built nor structured, like that, and that can be seen in the quality/build of the housing stock. Just my opinion.

Perhaps, decades into the future when large parts of Detroit begin to become unaffordable Brightmoor may be reworked to cater to an upper-middle class crowed, but that's still tens of years off, I think.

(Message edited by lmichigan on February 22, 2007)
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Yelloweyes
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Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 8:22 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quote:
"Many of the people who are moving out of Rosedale Park are moving to the suburbs with newer homes."

I don't think people are moving out because there house is old. Most of the houses in the Points are mostly 75+ years old and people aren't exactly migrating from there.
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Quozl
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Post Number: 231
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Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 1:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great link Detroitman. I looked with great interest the Grand River-Greenfield section of the story as much of my family lived in Grandmont. When I came up there 1.5 years ago it did not look too bad though I noticed commerce was pretty slim except for fast food and wig/nail salons.

Where did detnews.com get the population figure of Detroit was 951,270 residents? I thought the population was much lower.

Can these neighborhoods be saved? I seriously doubt it.
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Quozl
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Post Number: 232
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Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 1:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Forget the question, I noticed the figure came from the 2000 Census.
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Paulmcall
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Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 9:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I shake my head everytime I go past the Grand River and Greenfield intersection. That used to be a happening area. Now, mostly bad things are happening.
I grew up one block from there and its pathetic how crime is still a #1 issue some 28 years after we left the area. It was the main reason we left. I pity the poor people that are stuck living there. That said, maybe we need the military to go block by block and clean out the insurgents right here in Detroit. The regular cops haven't got a handle on it in over 30 years.
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Lmichigan
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Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 11:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Because law enforcement is supposed to be the be all/end all to every issue concerning crime? You can put cop on every corner, until the community gets to tackling social issues, it's near pointless to suggest that more law enforcement will change must of anything in the long run. I'm just a bit annoyed at this cure-all "band-aid" that everything in Detroit can be solved with more cops.
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Yelloweyes
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Username: Yelloweyes

Post Number: 87
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Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 8:17 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Agree it's not police officers fault that crime is high no more then it is a teacher's fault that test scores are low. Or a doctor's fault that a patient is sick.
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Royce
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Post Number: 2074
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Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 2:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

L,michian, I don't think you understood my proposal. Brightmoor would not be a hard sell to those living in Rosedale Park if you GUT Brightmoor and begin with brand new homes just like the City did with Jefferson Village(JV). JV is still surrounded by poor neighborhoods, yet people are moving into JV as I write.

I don't know the incomes of these JV home buyers, but I know that the houses are being sold for more than $200,000. I don't know if you consider this something that working class people can afford, but the people who live in Rosedale Park can.
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Royce
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Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 2:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lmichigan, I take serious issue with your last post regarding crime and a more beefed up police presence in crime infested areas of Detroit. The police ARE a part of the community, and therefore they should be actively involved with the community to help the community solve its problems.

Your response implies that the community has to solve its social problems on its own, without police, without jobs, without any help from the outside. As Paulmcall mentioned, crime is still a big problem in the Grand River/Greenfield area some 28 years after he left. It's clear that the people in this community can't solve their own problems by themselves, period.

Everyone plays a part in reducing crime, but since the folks in this area don't appear to be able to do it, then the police community has to step in and force the community's hand. The problem is there aren't enough police making a presence in that community to effectively reduce crime. What's your solution, Lmichigan? Won't it cost just as much to provide job training, social workers, health care workers, and any other people needed to help this community as it would hiring more cops to patrol the area and stand on those street corners?

Lmichigan, you balk at Paulmcall's suggestion, but,like usual, you don't offer any helpful suggestions other than the community needs to solve its problems. Hell, I could have got that pat answer from a five year old.

(Message edited by royce on February 23, 2007)
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Missnmich
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Username: Missnmich

Post Number: 568
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 10:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"if you GUT Brightmoor and begin with brand new homes"

Please. Hasn't there been enough gutting of neighborhoods in Detroit?
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 5153
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 10:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Royce, I tired of arguing with you. If you're not going to stop getting bitchy and personal, get use to being ignored.

(Message edited by lmichigan on February 23, 2007)
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 493
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 10:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They should Royce, but they don't. Don't forget that massive thread about how Detroit Police sucked at their job.

BTW, I found the link, but can't get it working. It said that the page wasn't found. If someone can post it here, please do.
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 2076
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 2:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lmichigan, "I tired of arguing with you" is still a poor response to what I was talking about. You consistently make comments on topics without any supportive statements and then when you are called out to defend them, you chicken out.

If you don't have it in you to defend some of your non-supportive comments, then you need to stop posting your comments and just stick to posting a fact or an opinion that's very general like, "I like tall buildings." When you make a comment about what "someone else" says and then you don't back it up, Lmichigan, then it's justified for me or anyone on this forum to challenge you and the statement you made.

Do understand, Lmichigan, that I will be challenging you at every opportunity I get when you make a non-supportive comment about any thing that someone says. Even in this instance you have acted like a naive child who doesn't understand why name calling or hitting someone is wrong.

I remember how you used to go after Ilovedetroit and Brian for the comments that they would make about Freman Hendrix, which you thought were unsubstantiated. You went after them repeatedly. However, it wasn't personal. You were simply arguing with them because they had no proof to back up many of their claims. Well, Lmichigan, I'm doing the same thing to you, but now all of a sudden I'm getting "bitchy" and making this "personal." If you were Ilovedetroit or Brian I would be going after them in the same way.

Like I said before, Lmichigan, my opinion of you has changed considerably. Stop crying "foul" when you get hit for a non-supportive comment that you make. This forum has never been a place for the timid. However, like you said, if you're tired of arguing, then stick to non-threatening, non-controversial, kiddie forums, where everybody says nice things to each other. This isn't that place.
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 2077
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 2:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Missnmich, what do you think should be done with the Brightmoor area if you have a problem with gutting it and starting from scratch?
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Missnmich
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Username: Missnmich

Post Number: 569
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 24, 2007 - 9:33 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good question, Royce. I doubt that most of Brightmoor's housing stock is worth saving, but on the other hand it is fairly intact.

I just hate tearing down more buildings when so much open land already exists!
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 2096
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 6:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Where are you, Lmichigan? Afraid to respond with something of substance? You're slipping in your old age. What happened?
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Craig
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Username: Craig

Post Number: 27
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 6:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hi all - late-comer to this thread. Re: Brightmoor... there's not much left there; it's been gutting itself. Las week I took a ride through and past the old family home (Stout) and understood why my grandparents were so hot to leave a few years back. You could plant crops on the open spaces - the few people left probably wouldn't complain.
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 2108
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Sunday, March 11, 2007 - 7:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Brightmoor needs to be reinvented. The homes that were built there are small and obvious not build with quality in mind. Newer homes would help the area provided that the old homes be leveled.

Brightmoor can't prosper if the same people who currently live there don't improve themselves personally. Woman who live in the area prostitute themselves along Fenkell Avenue daily. I don't know what the median income is for the area but it has to be one of the lowest if not the lowest in the city. So the question becomes,"How do you uplift Brightmoor if the people don't seem interested enough to uplift themselves? And a follow up question is, "If the people of Brightmoor don't want to uplift themselves, should the City of Detroit force them out and bring in people who will improve the area?

One of the things that I do like about Brightmoor is the potential for commercial development along Fenkell Avenue just west of the post office to just east of Eliza Howell Park. Fenkell has the kind of scale that would work well for a business district. It reminds me of Vernor in Mexicantown between Grand Blvd and Livernois. The City could create something similar if it cleared out the area and started from scratch.

Again, my suggestion would be to build new homes at market rate prices and promote them to people in Rosedale Park who are tired of their older homes and want something new, but want to stay in the city. Even building some homes along the outer edges of Eliza Howell Park could be a great selling point to get people to improve the neighborhood.

What the City does with the Brightmoor area might say a lot to investors( developers, retailers, and potential home owners) about the City's potential to comeback. The time to act however is now.

(Message edited by royce on March 11, 2007)
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 2130
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Saturday, March 24, 2007 - 12:31 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

bump^
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Downtown_remix
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Username: Downtown_remix

Post Number: 51
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Saturday, March 24, 2007 - 1:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the grandriver- greenfield area could really develop into a viable area with its existing neighborhood homes and store front retail. the mammoth flee market can possible turn into a real anchor,maybe a burlington coat factory.The NORTH END is important being off Woodward ave. new center area needs the north end to step up. plus that area has some really great homes. filling in those gaps between those homes with new houses, the same way they did my the mayors mansion.
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Downtown_remix
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Username: Downtown_remix

Post Number: 55
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Saturday, March 24, 2007 - 9:38 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The 7 mile livernois are,and grand river greenfiend area, both are set up to be great neighborhood,pelnts of store front shopping clustered in dense avenues.With special attention,this could do amazing things
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Magnasco
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Username: Magnasco

Post Number: 226
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 12:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just a bit of perspective from someone living in the East English Village.

The homes are old. Even the well kept homes are old.

Old homes need LOTS of money in the way of roofs, windows, insulation, tuck-pointing, cement work, and the list goes on and on.

Most of the homes have not been cared for in the best way to begin with. I have spoken to several people who over the last year have looked at dozens of homes in Detroit and they say that by far mine is in top condition. Well that is downright scary!

What do you do when the entire housing infrastructure is aging past its useful life? That's a problem. An entire city of 80+ year old homes. And I don't mean useful as far as not being able to be lived in, but I am referring to someone paying a market rate for the house. Especially when all the "old stuff" has to be brought up to code to sell it.

While they don't necessarily need to be torn down, who can afford to keep them up? Certainly not the people who currently own them.

I forget the statistic, but something well over 60% of the city's homes, and I think it may be close to 70% are valued for tax purposes at under $25,000. Now that doesn't tell you the condition of the house, but it does tell you that the person who lives there probably can't afford to absorb a couple of $5,000 repairs. So, like someone said about Rosedale Park, folks ARE in fact leaving these deteriorating houses to move to something that will take less money to maintain. And there are two related problems there.

One is that some folks can't sell the house and are letting the banks take them back over. Those who owe more than the houses are worth are just letting the banks take them back. This is becoming so prevalent in all areas that the banks/lenders have started programs that allow you to turn over the keys and walk away and they will give you a lesser mark on your credit report for not having to go through foreclosure. SO, whatever our problem has been with abandoned housing in the previously well-supported areas like East English Village, it is about to get A LOT worse. Watch.

And second, those who have enough equity to sell are selling fast, and they are selling SHORT. Way short! Just as everywhere, people are cutting percentages off the asking price to get the sale. Well here we have a problem that there had been some real value increases over the last 15 years or so in some of these neighborhoods, like East English Village. But many people who have had the homes for a while, and didn't sell at the high point, are now selling short. So if they had a high appraisal at $175 K at a point a few years ago, they may list it at that, but then someone offers them $120, and they take it. These short sells are killing the comp values for any of the purchasers over the last 5 years or so. And again, this adds to the number of folks who are in the above category of being upside down in their mortgage because values are plummeting.

While I would like to be optimistic, and think that the Mayor's plan can shore up this problem, I think that this spiral is already out of control. I have had offers on my home of the asking price, but appraisals won't support it. And every time my neighbor sells short of their best appraised value, the appraisals continue to move down.

Now while this isn't a problem for most of the neighborhoods in the City, it is going to be a problem for the ones that had held on the longest. And I would imagine that the healthiest move for the City would have been to bring the value of the rest of the City up to meet the higher values in the City, rather than bringing the highest values down to meet the lowest.

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