  Nyct Member Username: Nyct Post Number: 1 Registered: 01-2007 |
Hello. I recently moved to Detroit from Brooklyn, NY where I was born and raised. I must admit I instantly became fascinated with this city. I’ve been trying to get to the bottom of the decline of this once thriving metropolis and have found myself on several occasions exploring certain parts of the city, reading books and looking at old photographs of Detroit and surfing the internet for sites such as this one, to satisfy my desire to learn more and stay current on the state of the city. Anyway, I was speaking with a local here not long ago who seemed well versed in the history of Detroit, and knew the city like the back of his hand. We discussed many topics, from reasons for the decline (lack of mass transit and concentration on one industry in my opinion) to the seemingly endless renovation projects all over the city. One thing he mentioned was that Detroit planned to adopt a borough system, like NYC, incorporating the outlaying counties. Thinking back, I can’t get it out of my head if he was theorizing or if this plan was ever or is now being discussed. I can’t find anything on it and got to thinking that maybe he was just humoring this NYC native. Has anyone else ever heard of such a plan? If so, can you provide further info and/or links for further reading? Please forgive my naiveté if perceived as well. Thanks. | ||
Detourdetroit Member Username: Detourdetroit Post Number: 254 Registered: 10-2003 |
Boroughs or something akin might work in the D if we could get over ourselves. We only need to look to the Big Apple! NYC got through this very hard process over one hundred years ago. Some old school Brooklynites fought tooth and nail, and still today some in Queens and Staten Island often think of themselves as separate from New York City. In the 1960s Norman Mailer ran for mayor on a platform of Manhattan seceding from the rest of the country... I miss New York and Brooklyn where I lived for several years in places like Boerum Hill, Prospect Heights and Clinton Hill. Welcome to Detroit Nyct! | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2347 Registered: 02-2005 |
I always love hearing about when people from the greatest of cities is fascinated by our struggling city. Now, incorporating the suburbs in other counties would be revolutionary. I think this state/region is too provincial to see this sort of annexation. For the city of Detroit itself, which, as you know, is a large city by land area, I highly support a borough system. | ||
Walterwaves Member Username: Walterwaves Post Number: 3 Registered: 01-2007 |
I moved to NYC from Detroit back in 84 or 85 and I have to tell you, NYC is a facinating place and I just could not see myself ever living anywhere else ever again although I have entertained the thought of moving back to downtown, I'm just afraid with the economy the way it is I may end up losing everything and thats scary. But in all reality, NYC residents are made up of the 5 boroughs but for some strange reason, not just borough residents but everyone including transplants from this area including Jersey and Conneticut think of Manhattan as NYC and nothing else. It really is a strange concept. I guess they associate NYC,Manhattan and Money all in the same breath as being "The City". I look at it as a whole. While I so miss my Old Detroit, and I do hope it will eventually bounce back into what it once was and posiibly greater I personally do not think I could live there again. The old saying is "Once you have lived in NYC , you can't live anywhere else" and I tell you folks, its true. All I have to do to feel alive here is wake up and it is a never ending sea of people. I love seeing a place full of life and I hope and pray Detroit breathes again as it once did. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 316 Registered: 04-2006 |
I live in NYC as well, but I will be on the first thing smoking back to the D if it ever becomes again what it once was... And I know a lot of ex-Detroiters here in NY who feel the same way. (Message edited by iheartthed on January 24, 2007) | ||
Nyct Member Username: Nyct Post Number: 2 Registered: 01-2007 |
"Once you have lived in NYC , you can't live anywhere else" ... it must be true for most! i expected to find some NYC ex-pats here when i first moved out here in august, but have yet to come across any. Anyway, as far as the "borough" system, louisville, kentucky did something similar in 2000, i'm sure under totally different circumstances: (source: wikipedia) As of the 2000 Census, Louisville had a population of 256,231. Thus, Louisville's population was for the first time less than Lexington's merged consolidated city-county population of 260,512. On November 7, 2000, Louisville and Jefferson County approved a ballot measure to merge into a consolidated city-county government named Louisville-Jefferson County Metro Government (official long form) and Louisville Metro (official short form), which took effect January 1, 2003. This merger made Louisville Kentucky's largest city again. The U.S. Census Bureau gives two different population figures for Louisville: for the consolidated Louisville-Jefferson County it lists the 2005 estimated population as 699,827 (16th largest in the nation and equal to that of Jefferson County);[2] for the Louisville-Jefferson County balance it lists the population as 556,429 (27th largest).[3] The "balance" is a designation created by the Census Bureau to describe the portion of Louisville-Jefferson County that does not include any of the semi-independent separately incorporated places located within Louisville Metro (such as Anchorage, Middletown or Jeffersontown).[4] Census methodology uses balance values in comparing consolidated cities to other cities for ranking purposes, so the lower ranking (27th) is the figure officially reported by the Census Bureau. Nevertheless, the higher ranking (16th) continues to be claimed by Louisville Metro government and business leaders, widely reported in the local media, and has even been posted on road signs at the city limits.[5] The Louisville metropolitan area (not to be confused with Louisville Metro), having a population of approximately 1.2 million, ranks 43rd nationally. The metro area also includes some Southern Indiana counties (see Geography and climate below). | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1629 Registered: 06-2004 |
The City of Detroit proper is not that large, land area wise - only about 140 square miles. Most of the major south-southwestern cities are at least twice that size. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 317 Registered: 04-2006 |
You might find a few ex-NYers in and around Ann Arbor. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 101 Registered: 12-2006 |
The massive consolidation that took place in (I believe) 1898 to create what we now know as New York City, encompassing the five boroughs, was not universally popular and to some extend was imposed upon the citizens of the five Counties by the State. For a more recent version of the same thing, look at the Province of Ontario. Over and over, since the 1990s, the Province has forced municipalities to merge and consolidate. What was once County Kent, comprising several cities and townships (including the City of Chatham) is now the Municipality of Chatham-Kent, and all the former subordinate jurisdictions have simply ceased to exist. Now, in New York City, the five Counties that make up that great City still exist. The island of Manhattan is both the Borough of Manhattan and is also New York County. Each Borough is also a County, just the County government doesn't mean very much. In the case of Detroit, look at the firestorm when it was reported that nearly-all-caucasian Farmington was considering merging with nearly-all-caucasian Farmington Hills. The former Township of Royal Oak split into the cities of Ferndale, Pleasant Ridge, Oak Park, Huntington Woods, Clawson, Royal Oak, Madison Heights and Hazel Park, forgive me if that's not all of them. It's wildly inefficient, yet nobody would consider giving up that idiotic structure. And again, I'm still just looking in suburbs here. For southeast Michigan to consider any kind of more efficient governmental structure, given the politics and racial problems, I think two things would have to happen: 1. It would have to be imposed upon us, and 2. It would have to be put together as merged services; you would have to let each individual city remain at least as a shell. Very tough thing to do, but very necessary. Our massive inefficiency is one of the things holding us down as a region. | ||
Nyct Member Username: Nyct Post Number: 3 Registered: 01-2007 |
man, the racial problems here are a shame. so is that abandoned structure know as the michigan central station. it's totally amazing. the incorporation of NY was imposed. brooklyn by itself would be the 3rd (maybe 4th now) largest city in population in the country. brooklyn is the borough with the most individuality IMO. Although officially one city, each borough has their own flavor, and everyone i grew up with in Brooklyn never says they're from New York. It's always Brooklyn. Anyway, if there was backlash when the boroughs were incorporated, it's not there now. although we're proud of our boroughs, we all consider ourselves NYers. i've noticed everyone from this region, including the suburbs says they're from detroit. i wonder how people would react nowadays if an idea like this WAS imposed and "being from detroit" became a forced reality for everyone. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2348 Registered: 02-2005 |
Lilpup, most of those southern cities incorporate into thier city what would otherwise be a suburb. They are comprised of what would be largely suburban neighborhoods by northern/eastern standards, and this explains why their land area is so huge. Detroit has one of the largest urban 'footprints' from its 1800-1950 expansionary period. NYC boroughs are huge, and they are mostly cities in themselves. I notice that, generally, New Yorkers call Manhattan "the city," even though the entire thing is a city by most standards. I like the borough as a system of governance and representation in city council, in addition to having some managerial control over a portion of the city. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2349 Registered: 02-2005 |
Walterwaves, I'm considering a few New York City law schools, and I fear I may never return to the D if I do go. Iheartthed, the Ann Arbor-New York connection is alive and well. | ||
Walterwaves Member Username: Walterwaves Post Number: 6 Registered: 01-2007 |
I don't think a borough system is neccesary, what u guys need is honesty. Detroit needs to find honest politicians to run the city. This city has not had an honest mayor since the 60's. Get rid of those damn casinos. The casinos killed, literally murdered small businesses downtown. Either get rid of them, or make them strictly casinos for gambling only and let them only serve drinks at a higher charge than your local watering hole and nothing else. Level %95 of the east and west side because it is abanded anyway. Sell the land at giveaway prices only to major Corporations like Johnson and Johnson, Corel, Toyota and such. Make it so Companies want to come back. Its not a hard thing to do. It really isnt. The city and the outlying burbs are full of unemployed people and they will work for cheap because cost of living is still kind of cheap there. On another note,heck, I manage real estate here in Manhattan and most of my residents are all transplants. Funny thing is, like the other person said most of these people say they are from Detroit even though they are from Birmingham,Grosse Pointe , Sterling Heights and so on but yet, they all feel like me about returning and hell, they grew up in places I only dreamed of growing up in. I grew up appr. 3 blocks from the Packard Plant on the east side . I remember when PoleTown and the car plants were thriving. If I could have it back the way it used to be, Id probably come back but I just don't see a "neighborhood feel" anymore in the city. Honestly, I have looked into coming back in the past few years but for my career there really is no "real earning capacity" within the downtown area and I certainly could not live in the burbs. Im a city boy. | ||
Walterwaves Member Username: Walterwaves Post Number: 7 Registered: 01-2007 |
Makinaw,,,,,,,\ NYC is a hotbed for litigation. C'mon over and stay awhile u might like it. We can always use more old detroiters. | ||
Nyct Member Username: Nyct Post Number: 4 Registered: 01-2007 |
walterwaves ... i have the same problem. i'm a city boy trapped in the burbs for the first time in my life and i'm losing my mind. the second i find an area with a comfortable neighborhood feel, i'm going in. it's gotta start somewhere. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 2880 Registered: 08-2004 |
I cannot see a borough system in Detroit. Maybe within Wayne County but the Grosse Pointes, Dearborns and Livonias will fight tooth and nail against it. Remember, this region has little fiefdoms trying to control every piece of the pie even if they are not self-sustaining and need to depend on one another. Too much ego politics here in SE Michigan. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 43 Registered: 10-2003 |
All those discussing boroughs, beware. L. Brooks is already plotting against you. He has pictures of the Southfield Town Center to prove how awesome he is. | ||
Mayor_sekou Member Username: Mayor_sekou Post Number: 438 Registered: 09-2006 |
I think a borough system within Wayne county might be possible if it is seriously imposed on us. But Oakland county? Nah not a chance. But whats funny is even if we annexed every square inch of developed land in Wayne county we would probably come short of (or just barely above) the city's 1.85 million mark in 1950. How would this process be brought about? | ||
Queensfinest Member Username: Queensfinest Post Number: 1 Registered: 08-2006 |
Just happened to come across this site while doing research. Definitely some very interesting material. I'm part of the Urban Planning Program at Hunter College of The City University of NY. Look forward to getting in on the discussion of this very fascinating city and region. And to NYCT, As an aside, I'm from Astoria, Queens, but have family in the Detroit area, so I visit maybe once a year. I'd say the neighborhoods in the Detroit area that come closest to what we're used to in BK and Queens would have to be Hamtramck or East Dearborn. Don't get me wrong, these two areas are a lot less urban than most of NYC. More similar to what you might find in what we think of as suburban eastern Queens or parts of southeast Brooklyn. Not quite the same, but maybe the best you're going to get as far as feeling like you're in an actual functioning and sustainable neighborhood, like you've been used to in New York. From what I've read on this site though, several Detroit neighborhoods, including Midtown in particular, are on their way back in a major way. (Message edited by queensfinest on January 24, 2007) | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2350 Registered: 02-2005 |
This is a New Yorker coming out party... Queensfinest, what you read is true. | ||
Yvette248 Member Username: Yvette248 Post Number: 386 Registered: 10-2006 |
I think the borough system you are referring to is being discussed strictly in the realm of tourism. Visitors to this town don't know the difference between Hazel Park and Dearborn. The new "map" of Detroit is being drawn up showing the greater Detroit area as "districts". For example, Royal Oak-Ferndale-Birmingham will all be one tourism district. Downtown and Midtown will be a separate district. p.s. As you can see (unfortunately) it will take a huge re-brainwashing for people in this area to not always jump to the conclusion that everything is about city vs. suburbs. | ||
Nyct Member Username: Nyct Post Number: 5 Registered: 01-2007 |
mayor ... do you know what the closest and most recent population figure is for wayne county? i don't feel like looking it up. it's a great idea in theory, however, i have no idea how. i was hoping the idea was already being discussed. | ||
Nyct Member Username: Nyct Post Number: 6 Registered: 01-2007 |
QueensFinest ... i've been to hamtramck, reminds me of jersey city. haven't been to east dearborn yet. i'll be sure to check it out. thanks for the info. | ||
Mayor_sekou Member Username: Mayor_sekou Post Number: 439 Registered: 09-2006 |
According to the Census Bureau as of 2005 it is estimated at 1,998,217 a 3.1 percent drop from 2000. So just under 2 million if all is annexed to the city thats not that bad. I am not sure at all how annexations happen, especially at this big of a scale. I imagine it would be difficult. (Message edited by mayor_sekou on January 24, 2007) | ||
Nyct Member Username: Nyct Post Number: 7 Registered: 01-2007 |
so an idea IS being discussed as far as tourism is concerned Yvette? Do you know where i can find any info on the plan? | ||
Harmonie Member Username: Harmonie Post Number: 671 Registered: 08-2004 |
Nyct, There has been much discussion on this forum about where to find a neighborhood feel. I do not wish to open that up again. I just want to say, though, that personally, living in the heart of downtown Detroit is the best decision I have ever made. There is a sense of community and a true "neighborhood feel". I recently visited Manhattan, and was ecstatic to return to Detroit. If you would like more details feel free to email me at jpierce@insidedetroit.org. so that the thread doesn't get hijacked. On the burroughs subject. I think if we had annexed the surrounding areas in the late 1800's like NYC and Chicago Detroit would have been raised with the idea of regionalism and working together as opposed to having regionalism treated as a 4-letter word. I think it's too late now for anything like a burrough system, the only thing we can hope for is some form of regional government and that's even a long shot. | ||
Nyct Member Username: Nyct Post Number: 8 Registered: 01-2007 |
thanks ... detroit would be the 4th larget city in terms of population if that happened. that would be a big boost for tourism ... you could be mayor too! | ||
Yvette248 Member Username: Yvette248 Post Number: 389 Registered: 10-2006 |
Nyct, the plan should be released publicly in the next couple of months. There WAS some hemming and hawing from some suburbs who were stuck on the us vs. them mentality, but I think enough calm heads understood that we need to promote the entire region - not just one county. (no names, no names) | ||
Tetsua Member Username: Tetsua Post Number: 1066 Registered: 01-2004 |
quote: It always kinda reminded me of Jamaica ave in Queens (where the Mrs. is from). | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 319 Registered: 04-2006 |
Detroit proper actually reminds me a lot of Harlem and Brooklyn... | ||
Nyct Member Username: Nyct Post Number: 9 Registered: 01-2007 |
the streets i went through in hamtramck had these big old homes close to each other, not connected though. it resembles jamaica somewhat, but i think the properties in jamaica are a little bit smaller. if you ever cruise thru jersey city near the union city border, some of the streets are almost exact. i know this is off topic, but are there any old brownstone or brick townhouse / rowhome neighborhoods in detroit where all the homes are connected? if not, were there ever any areas with homes like these? | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 2231 Registered: 10-2004 |
Duh! Detroit is in no capacity to annex its adjoining suburbs. Hell, the primary reason the burbs incorporated into cities was to thwart Detroit from annexing their neighborhoods in Springwells and other townships. Detroit was in a much stronger position back during the 1920s in spite of all the recessions that preceded the Great Depression which occurred at Detroit's heyday. Today, bits and pieces of Detroit stand a better chance of being "annexed" by the burbs if the legislature ever saw to it after the city goes bankrupt. Then, almost anything could happen. There's no real program in place for such an undertaking. It's pretty much up to Lansing. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 2884 Registered: 08-2004 |
Livernois, the suburbs want no part of Detroit's problems. We all know that. | ||
Yvette248 Member Username: Yvette248 Post Number: 394 Registered: 10-2006 |
Ltorivia, actually a more accurate statement is that the suburbs already do experience the same problems the city does. Different suburbs have different levels, but its all one big stinkin pot. (read earlier story re: Ann Arbor lost of major employer) | ||
Cjdb16 Member Username: Cjdb16 Post Number: 154 Registered: 11-2003 |
Nyct, welcome. I am a Detroit girl who spent several years living in Brooklyn trying to become a New Yorker. It may have worked if I never had to go into "the city" and could've just lived and worked in Brooklyn. Manhattan makes me claustrophobic, and the subway gives me panic attacks, I love the idea of mass transit, but getting to work (crowded, smelly) in a tunnel underground doesn't work for me. Anyway... Detroit is where I belong. I would suggest you check out Woodbridge and Corktown for the neighborhood feel. | ||
Neilr Member Username: Neilr Post Number: 431 Registered: 06-2005 |
Nyct, welcome to Detroit. There are perhaps a half dozen sets of 5 connected townhouses in the West Village neighborhood and several in the Hubbard Farms area and a few others scattered throughout the city; but townhouses were not a common style of housing in this area. Just east of downtown Detroit, in the late 50's and 60's Lafayette Park was developed as a mix of high-rises and townhouses. There are a good number of Tudor Revlval and Georgian Revival rows in the Grosse Pointes. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 786 Registered: 02-2006 |
Nyct, Detroit and New York's housing stock couldn't be more different. It was the times, as well as the relative wealth afforded to residents during Detroit's boom years, as opposed to the relative poorness of NYC's citizens during IT'S boom years (single-family homes vs. apt. buildings and tenements). As you've said, the older sections of Detroit will remind you a lot of outer Queens and Jersey City/Hoboken, especially Hamtramck. | ||
Nyct Member Username: Nyct Post Number: 10 Registered: 01-2007 |
Thanks Cjdb16 ... Brooklyn is the place for me too. I grew up there and socalized there and would rather go to a bar in park slope over taking a mission out to the city any day. Riding the subway is second nature to me though. It's different when you grow up there i guess. I've been to Corktown ... how do i get to woodbridge? | ||
Spacemonkey Member Username: Spacemonkey Post Number: 141 Registered: 03-2006 |
I believe the Borrough idea was something Mayor Coleman A Young was pushing for. I vaguely remember that from my youth. I thought it seemed like a cool idea, but the burbs wanted nothing to do with it. | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 1061 Registered: 03-2006 |
grand river and commonwealth across from United Cafe or trumbull and warren | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 321 Registered: 04-2006 |
I'm curious... How long have you been in Detroit? and what steered you towards the suburbs instead of the city? | ||
Nyct Member Username: Nyct Post Number: 11 Registered: 01-2007 |
i've been here since august. my fiance lives out in the suburbs, i landed a job, and moved close to her. the only place i could find on short notice that would give me a six month lease until i got situated was near her. the lease is up and i'm trying to get her to move downtown. | ||
Nyct Member Username: Nyct Post Number: 12 Registered: 01-2007 |
awesome ... thanks for the info Neilr. got some more exploring to do now. | ||
Cjdb16 Member Username: Cjdb16 Post Number: 155 Registered: 11-2003 |
Pick up a copy of The Monitor for real estate listings. They will have lots of places for you to check out in the neighborhoods you will like. | ||
Young_detroiter Member Username: Young_detroiter Post Number: 182 Registered: 08-2004 |
Though nearly impossible now, during my early years of youth, I entertained the idea of additional annexations. Nevertheless, annexation was actively practiced in Detroit during the pre-Depression era. A lack of land is not a problem, instead it is the lack of proper utilization. Any city would struggle with an instable tax base. Detroit is probably half abandoned and one-third of those remaining are in poverty. That is why I believe gentrification is necessary in certain areas of the city. However, I do find it aggravating to see Detroit used as a huge playground for suburbanites. I understand that we need a lively downtown to lure suburbanites and city residents, alike; but are some of the actions at the expense of dedicated Detroit residents? The neighborhood programs promoted by Kilpatrick is a good start, but Detroiters over the entire city need to feel more included - even if it is just an illusion.  I believe that a present-day Detroit would benefit from a ward system with actual concerned city council members representing the areas. Nevertheless, the city is continuing to collapse on itself. It is crumbling from within. The city is losing 1,000 residents per month. With every month that passes, I hear of great news of a new restaurant opening, but then I remember that the city is also without another thousand residents. In addition to the urban-suburban divide, I see the divide within our own city. The CBD is becoming more detached from the rest of the city and becoming more like a suburb. I wouldn't find it suprising it they tried to create a Midtown Twp. I appreciate and adore the new residents that are moving in, and the new development, but as with everything, there must be some sort of balance. Nyct, welcome to the D. "Believe 'N' the D" - Young_D P.S. Let's petition to change Detroit's climate! It's a governmental conspiracy to keep Detroit cold for nearly 6 months.  (J/K) Interesting note: Two of the top three cities are in regions with unpleasant winter climates. | ||
Erikd Member Username: Erikd Post Number: 796 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: What makes you say that? | ||
Fmrdtwn Member Username: Fmrdtwn Post Number: 12 Registered: 07-2005 |
I always heard that the city was going to incorperate some of the suburbs but was turned down by COLEMAN YOUNG! | ||
Nyct Member Username: Nyct Post Number: 13 Registered: 01-2007 |
thanks young detroiter. i'm rooting for this town. i love it here so far. i think if the city is being abandoned and 1,000 residents are leaving every month, ANY investment in the city should be welcomed and a thriving downtown for ALL residents of the city and the suburbs should be supported by all. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 112 Registered: 12-2006 |
The suburbs are almost entirely cities themselves. Cities in Michigan can annex parts of Townships under certain circumstances, but I don't believe there is any means for a City to annex another City. The City's continuing loss of population is tied to two things. Fix these and you fix the problem. 1. The City is not price/service competitive with many of its suburbs; 2. New housing continues to be built in exurbia even though the regional population is not growing; so any time somebody moves into a new house on former farmland, it trickles down to a home being abandoned somewhere, usually (but not always) in Detroit. | ||
Nyct Member Username: Nyct Post Number: 14 Registered: 01-2007 |
if you grow up in a city, it becomes a part of you in my opinion. i just don't understand how people that grew up in detroit and left at one time or another for various reasons don't just say f it and move back. of course it's not that simple but it would be great if everyone did. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 323 Registered: 04-2006 |
Detroit's problems are a little more serious than competing with its suburbs now. People, myself included, aren't leaving Detroit to move to the suburbs, we left Detroit to move to other cities in other states. Fix Michigan's mentality and you'll fix Detroit. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 787 Registered: 02-2006 |
Yup. Detroit/Michigan, while I love them both, didn't have what I wanted, and probably won't for some time. Like so many others, with heavy heart, I moved on. | ||
Queensfinest Member Username: Queensfinest Post Number: 3 Registered: 08-2006 |
Focusonthed, you said, "Nyct, Detroit and New York's housing stock couldn't be more different. It was the times, as well as the relative wealth afforded to residents during Detroit's boom years, as opposed to the relative poorness of NYC's citizens during IT'S boom years (single-family homes vs. apt. buildings and tenements)." Are you kidding me? "the relative poorness of NYC's citizens during it's boom years" There are several reasons for the differences between New York and Detroit's housing stock, but don't think for a minute that this assumption is valid. At the same time that conditions in the overcrowded tenements of the LES were first being addressed the subway and other innovative transportation made areas such as the Upper East Side accessable for the wealthy. People built homes in this area that are still there today, unlike many of the finer estates in Detroit that have simply eroded and been neglected, as the "Fabulous" ruins of Detroit has done a good job of documenting. Yet we didn't view the big lawn and setback from the street as viable or even desirable. You want to talk about spatial constraints or patterns of development that didn't necessarily revolve around automobile culture, then we can discuss the unique patterns of development. Come on, we're a group of islands for the most part. Of course Ellis Island was the first point of entry for many immigrants, and NYC remains as a destination for immigrants to this day. This doesn't necessarily mean that you should consider New York a place lacking wealth. In fact, the opposite is true and was true at times of the greatest expansion. We are once again experiencing one of the greatest periods of growth in the history of this city. I'm sure many of you are familiar with New York, as I am with Detroit, and you should realize that comparing the two is akin to comparing apples and oranges. So please, be careful in your assumptions and generalizations. | ||
Walterwaves Member Username: Walterwaves Post Number: 14 Registered: 01-2007 |
NYCT if you grow up in a city, it becomes a part of you in my opinion. i just don't understand how people that grew up in detroit and left at one time or another for various reasons don't just say f it and move back. of course it's not that simple but it would be great if everyone did. " I would love to come back,have a job for me that pays 75K to manage real estate? Have a safe home for me where I do not have to worry about leaving my things and they'll still be there when I come back? (must be within city limits,no burbs) Have a home I can go to without the worry of getting rushed while sleeping in the middle of the night? Unfortunately, home has turned into a place that drives people away, even those of us that want to come home can't for fear of loss of everything from personal property, to job, to yes, even your life. While growing up in the ghetto I had the same mentality as those people still there do. Thank god I got to see how others live outside of Detroit. Life is much better even though a hole in my heart remains for the old Detroit. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 324 Registered: 04-2006 |
Queensfinest, What you see on "the Ruins" isn't hardly representative of Detroit's housing stock at all. Detroit has many inner-city neighborhoods filled with large old large homes that are still intact and being lived in today. The fact is that Detroit was once the wealthiest city on the face of the planet and it shows in the way the city was built. There aren't many cities, if any, from that era that compare in terms of the quality of housing. | ||
Nyct Member Username: Nyct Post Number: 15 Registered: 01-2007 |
walterwaves you're in nyc ... i'm sure you've com across people who are moving into soundview in the south bronx, harlem or bed stuy in BK because they've been priced out of everywhere else. i was in clinton hill (near pratt institute) for 2 yrs before i came out here and made many friends and acquaintences in a supposedly "bad" neighborhood. i think the same thing could happen here. | ||
Walterwaves Member Username: Walterwaves Post Number: 15 Registered: 01-2007 |
Guys, I was just in Detroit not too long ago visiting. I know what the city looks like and I certainly know what the Bronx looks like and Harlem too especially since I live in Harlem on 139th and Malcom X. The pics of the Ruins, is pretty representitive of %80-90 of what is left in the city. While u guys focus on the new developments (which is great) remember you are surrounded on all 4 sides by ruins, drugs, cime and criminals,and I mean hardcore I dont care if you die criminals. Believe I know, when I was a teen I was one of them. At any rate, no sense on beating a dead dog, I certainly hope Detroit gets back to being better than it ever has been. Not only for you, but for everyone. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 788 Registered: 02-2006 |
Queensfinest, I think you misunderstood what I was saying. What I meant to say was that comparatively few in NYC could afford LAND during NYC's boom years. Whereas when Detroit was booming, land was readily available to all. Even today, how many incredibly wealthy New Yorkers own the property they live on (not condo)? Detroit is very heavily single-family housing oriented for this reason...because they could. By no means am I saying Detroit is more wealthy than New York, that's a ridiculous statement. I am simply offering that there are reasons for our differing land-use patterns that go beyond geography. For the record, I prefer the way it's done on the East Coast (I live in Chicago, so it's close here). (Message edited by focusonthed on January 25, 2007) (Message edited by focusonthed on January 25, 2007) | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 325 Registered: 04-2006 |
Walter, I was born and raised in Detroit. All of my immediate family still lives in Detroit. I know most of that city better than the back of my hand. I also know Manhattan fairly well (we actually live in the same neighborhood), but that's beside the point. I know for a fact that 80-90% of the city does not look like "the Ruins" and it never has. There are certain areas of the city were 80-90% of that section may look like that, but not the entire city. | ||
Nyburgher Member Username: Nyburgher Post Number: 9 Registered: 10-2006 |
I am a lifelong Queens boy who moved to Pittsburgh. I have never been to Detroit. I have a somewhat different view of the merger idea. I think it had a strong negative impact that was only gradually overcome. Lets look at land use. NY has tended to lean on the big corporate real estate and wealth of Manhattan to subsidise low real estate taxes on single family owners in the boroughs. When the merger first happened, Brooklyn and Queens were big manufacturing centers. After that started to decline in the late 1950's, there was a huge opportunity to transform Long Island City and the Brooklyn waterfront into higher density office and apartments but there was not much economic incentive to do it. I think the Big Manhattan owners didn't want the competition. If all of the boroughs had to fight for thier own tax base, people would have looked to maximise development long ago. Finally this development is happening, partly because now New Jersey is developing it's waterfront. From what I can see, if Detroit were to grow much larger in area, it would lose the incentive to create a dense functional urban center. | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 492 Registered: 12-2005 |
Professorscott wrote: quote: This kind of one-dimensional, static, "zero-sum" viewpoint fails to take into account several demographic trends that are occurring right under our noses. The regional population may be static, but their ages are not and neither is the average household size [SE MI avg. household size: 2.66 (1990), 2.58 (2000), 2.51 (2007) Source]. In concert with a declining birthrate, our population is maturing and as they do so, they form households with fewer members. So if the population is holding constant and growing older while at the same time the average household size is declining, it is fallacious to claim that new housing is being built at the expense of abandoning existing housing. | ||
Terryh Member Username: Terryh Post Number: 113 Registered: 11-2006 |
Read: Origins of the New Urban Crisis: Race and Inequality in Postwar Detroit Author Thomas J Sugrue | ||
Nyburgher Member Username: Nyburgher Post Number: 10 Registered: 10-2006 |
As far as NY's resemlence to the ruins of Detroit. I don't think it ever fell that far, but in the "Death Wish" era of the mid-late 70's it was pretty bad. I think 60%- 75% of the land area was a slum. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 326 Registered: 04-2006 |
I've seen some pretty desolate looking areas in Brooklyn and the Bronx. | ||
Nyburgher Member Username: Nyburgher Post Number: 11 Registered: 10-2006 |
What you see today is just a taste of what it was like. I can't really give you a lot of details on what a lot of NY was like in the 70's because, I was wise enough not to roam around then. The areas that seem to most look like a lot of Detroit today are deep Brooklyn-- Ocean Hill, Brownsville, East Flatbush, Flatlands and also some of Harlem and the South Bronx. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 2064 Registered: 07-2004 |
sixty-six posts including this one on this thread an not one mention of crime. Nyct crime is the major reason Detroit is the way it is today.Don't be fooled by what anyone says here.Live where you want and if that means Detroit then that is ok. But what you will find in the large majority of this forum is denial and fantasy regarding Detroit.What city or town or twp would want to be annexed by a city with the response time the detroit police has........hours sometime; that would be insane. I am sure you saw plenty of shit in nyc but make no mistake Detroit's demise and continuing population shrinkage is very much related to the continuing crime issue. | ||
Walterwaves Member Username: Walterwaves Post Number: 16 Registered: 01-2007 |
CITYLOVER thank u thank u thank u I only wish I could of thought of exactly what you had to say. | ||
Nyburgher Member Username: Nyburgher Post Number: 12 Registered: 10-2006 |
To be blunt. That's why I have never been to Detroit, as much as it interests me- it seems too dangerous to even check out. This is one of the few places that a rational New Yorker would be scared of. It's a complicated subject, and there were many factors at work, but New York's revival didn't pick up serious steam until crime was made a top priority. | ||
Nyct Member Username: Nyct Post Number: 16 Registered: 01-2007 |
Nyburgher i'd like to think i'm pretty rational, and i moved here. let me ask my girl if she thinks i'm rational. if you've never been to detroit, how do you know which NYC neighborhoods resemble it? harlem and the southern part of the bronx are extremely dense ... i've seen nowhere here in detroit so far that resembles these areas. | ||
Walterwaves Member Username: Walterwaves Post Number: 18 Registered: 01-2007 |
I have not seen anything in NYC that vaguely reminds me of Detroit nor vice versa. But, when I do need a dose of "feeling like home" Philly comes real close to the Detroit I used to know. Pittsburgh also. But Philly is much closer. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 328 Registered: 04-2006 |
Take the L train towards Canarsie and you'll see a lot of Detroit resemblance. If you don't then you haven't seen enough of Detroit. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 329 Registered: 04-2006 |
Crime is not the issue with Detroit, public perception is the issue. Cars get broken into and people get mugged in New York just like they do in Detroit. Ironically, I've been a victim of it in New York but never in Detroit. I know many people who had more crimes committed against them in Ann Arbor than Detroit. Any little pigeon farting in Detroit gets the masses screaming about how dangerous it is. That is all in your head. Detroit is not Baghdad. | ||
Walterwaves Member Username: Walterwaves Post Number: 19 Registered: 01-2007 |
My friend, I have seen all of Detroit and all of NYC, the 2 just do not compare in any which way least of all Canarsie. lolol | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 330 Registered: 04-2006 |
Okay, well thank you for your opinion. And you haven't seen half of Detroit with the amount of misinformation you've been spewing in this thread. (Message edited by iheartthed on January 26, 2007) | ||
Queensfinest Member Username: Queensfinest Post Number: 10 Registered: 08-2006 |
I get what you're saying, FocusontheD. Hope I didn't come across in the wrong way. I'm new here... As far as what some others are saying about the degree to which NYC's population declined, I don't think it can be compared to Detroit's loss over the last almost six decades. From 1950 to 2006 Detroit's population has been reduced by half. Approximately 1.8 million to approx 900,000. NYC on the other hand has maintained a population of over seven million since the 1940s. Although the city lost almost one million in the 1970s, the population has continued to grow for the last few decades and is now as probably its all time high, at well over eight million. The point is that even almost a million leaving NYC in the 70s didn't have the impact that Detroit's loss of a million had. Where Detroit's population was cut in half, NYC's was only reduced by about twelve percent at the point that we look back at as the real crisis period. Of course subsequently, the population has since more than recovered. All of this means that NYC never had the opportunity for such a large percentage of it's available land to deteriorate and revert into the "urban prairies" now prevalent in Detroit. Even though there are what some call slums or ghettos in New York, they are mostly still very dense immigrant areas and very different from what you now see in Detroit. Even in the neighborhoods like Ocean Hill and Brownsville in Brooklyn and Harlem Uptown, the extent and pace of redevelopment of ANY available parcels have been astounding as of late. (Message edited by queensfinest on January 26, 2007) | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 331 Registered: 04-2006 |
The difference between NY and Detroit history is that the rich people didn't leave New York. It was primarily the middle class. In Detroit, the vast majority of white people left, regardless of class. | ||
Walterwaves Member Username: Walterwaves Post Number: 22 Registered: 01-2007 |
misinformation? lolol like what? Being honest about the damn crime? being honest that Detroit is no longer a decent city, that it does not at all look like NYC. Are you kidding me? Are you serious? Could it be that you are so blind in your defense for the city of Detroit that you cannot or shall I say refuse to see it for the shit hole it really is. Give me a damn break. Open your fucking eyes and stop lying to people on this thread about how great the city of Detroit is. Detroit hasn't been great since the mid 70's and it certainly won't become great by lying to people making them feel like its the safest place in the world when in fact its comparable to fucking Beirut. ahole | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 332 Registered: 04-2006 |
I don't even live in Detroit, what do I have to lie about? I'm as honest about it as you will find which is why I called you on your bullshit. I paint no rosy pictures about it, but Beirut it is not. You don't have half of a fucking clue what you're talking about. I'm wondering now if you even know as much about New York as you claim. | ||
Walterwaves Member Username: Walterwaves Post Number: 24 Registered: 01-2007 |
You my friend are a moron,,,,,,,you just don't want to open your eyes about the truth about Detroit and the state its in. If you traveled outside of the Wayne State area only a few blocks then you would see what a real shithole it is but you sit here clinging to hope that someday you might be able to return to a vibrant city it used to be. Well, probably not in your lifetime . As far as what I know about my hometown and my new adopted one, I know enough not to try to skew the damn truth and walk around with blinders on my eyes living in a fantsy land such as you. Grow up and stop lying to people. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 333 Registered: 04-2006 |
"If you traveled outside of the Wayne State area only a few blocks then you would see what a real shithole" Clearly I was correct. You don't know shit about Detroit. | ||
Walterwaves Member Username: Walterwaves Post Number: 26 Registered: 01-2007 |
Sure you were, I'm sorry, I forgot to add immediate downtown area.I guess you don't know the definition of shithole . Look it up. Its called anything outside of Wayne state and immediate downtown area. (Message edited by walterwaves on January 26, 2007) | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 334 Registered: 04-2006 |
The definition said "see the Bronx". | ||
Ohudson Member Username: Ohudson Post Number: 171 Registered: 09-2004 |
The reason why Metro Detroit will never take on a similar borough system as NYC is because of race & power. If that happened, Detroit would go from 80%+ to 20% African American. That would effectively eliminate all of the control that African Americans have. Also, Detroit votes to lose value. If someone like L. Brooks could run a regional system of course he would! He wants more power. Suburbanites would get everything they want. They could run the city and get the water dept. too. It doesn't matter if it makes the region better, bitter feelings would block that idea. | ||
Walterwaves Member Username: Walterwaves Post Number: 29 Registered: 01-2007 |
I never said NYC does not have its shithole areas. But, certainly not on the scale of Detroit. No major American city has crime,poverty on the scale I have seen in my hometown. None. I mean %90 of Detroits city limits are abandoned. Cant you see this? Dude, open your eyes. I understand your pride in the city. I have seen the positive changes brought about downtown and I think its wonderful. Slow, but wonderful. I love Detroit also but I refuse to walk around with blinders on about how life is there. Maybe the city would bounce back a little quicker if people knew the truth instead of being fooled into moving there and regretting it. Ever thought of that? Ever thought of actually trying to get people to come home or move to Detroit without lies and broken promises. Ever thought of asking an outside police agency to take over and wipe out the crime in the city?Ever thought about actually trying to bring about a positive change instead of attacking folks for telling the truth? Detroit can and will be a great city once again my friend but not until die harders like you actually do something about instead of just fantasizing about it. (Message edited by walterwaves on January 26, 2007) (Message edited by walterwaves on January 26, 2007) | ||
Ohudson Member Username: Ohudson Post Number: 172 Registered: 09-2004 |
90% abandoned, come on! Detroit is in a poor state, but don't you think 90% is a bit ridiculous. Maybe you should open your eyes Walterwaves! | ||
Walterwaves Member Username: Walterwaves Post Number: 31 Registered: 01-2007 |
no, I do not think %90 is ridiculous. Take a drive throughout the city and I don't mean your regular coffee shop/poet house haunts either. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2410 Registered: 10-2003 |
Please Walter Waves, you are completely clueless. There are still over 800,000 people living in the City of Detroit. That is Still about 25% of the Detroit Metropolitan area's population. 90% of the city is not abandoned. While some have blinders on that only show them the good, you also have a pretty thick set on. The city of Detroit is not near as terrible as you imply. Maybe many of us completely understand the issues we are faced with. Maybe some of us have decided we want to stay and fight for a better quality of life rather than run away to another city. Some of us so called "city Diehards" are working extremely hard to improve Detroit. What are you doing? other than nit picking at the people who are trying to make the improvements? Have you done anything to help the city? | ||
Walterwaves Member Username: Walterwaves Post Number: 32 Registered: 01-2007 |
Have you done anything to help the city? plenty,,,,,,and we will leave the conversation at that. good day | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 123 Registered: 12-2006 |
Detroit topped out at, what, like 2.2 million, and it is now probably around 865,000, so doing a little quick arithmetic we see the population decreased by about 60%. If we take into account Mikeg's note that household size decreased over that time, let's say from 3.0 to 2.5 on average, then the number of housing units we need dropped from 735,000 to 346,000. So the number of housing units needed has gone down about 53%. So my assertion is that 53% of the city's housing stock has been abandoned. Nowhere near 90%, but still pretty damn bad. If the City is to survive, it has to figure out how to compete with the suburbs. There are reasons the suburbs went from 50% of the regional population to over 80%. | ||
Nyct Member Username: Nyct Post Number: 17 Registered: 01-2007 |
i just moved here ndavies ... and i'm staying. | ||
Nyct Member Username: Nyct Post Number: 18 Registered: 01-2007 |
i think the root of all of detroit's problems is the focus on one cyclical industry and the lack of an efficient mass transit system. as jobs were lost and people fled, going into the city became a total inconvenience. homes were abandoned, businesses closed, crime ran rampant and here we are today. i don't think the city could build one now though. it's impossible to figure out who would ride it, especially in an area where mass transit is not the norm. how would it ever pay itself back? | ||
Walterwaves Member Username: Walterwaves Post Number: 33 Registered: 01-2007 |
My idea I believe was a decent one and I stand by it. Since most of the city limits is abandoned, sell off the land or give it away to huge corporations to build or re-use old factories and hire people at decent wages. Cost of living is still pretty good in the mid-west so salaries could remain low and taxes won't kill the big corps. And get rid of the damn casinos! (Message edited by walterwaves on January 26, 2007) | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 1067 Registered: 02-2004 |
Abandoned? Maybe you only came into the city to buy crack and missed all the people. | ||
Walterwaves Member Username: Walterwaves Post Number: 36 Registered: 01-2007 |
oh my,,,,,,what people? where all these people you talk about? Every time I am in the city I feel like Im in a ghost town. Please show me where all these people are. Because they damn sure are not in the city of Detroit. | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 1068 Registered: 02-2004 |
They're invisible to pinheads. | ||
Walterwaves Member Username: Walterwaves Post Number: 38 Registered: 01-2007 |
lolol moron,,,,,,I guess thats the best I can expect from people who's eyes are wide shut | ||
Ohudson Member Username: Ohudson Post Number: 173 Registered: 09-2004 |
Walterwaves, if you live in NYC and you come to visit Detroit of course it'll feel like a ghost town. The population difference is 9 to 1. And, considering just Brooklyn, population density is 3 to 1 in favor of Brooklyn, and Detroit has a larger land area than BK. The opposite thing happens when a Detroiter goes somewhere like NYC. There is just so many damn people. Do they all live in this small ass apartment? Don't call Detroit abandoned because it lacks the density that you are used to in NYC. | ||
Walterwaves Member Username: Walterwaves Post Number: 40 Registered: 01-2007 |
Ohudson, I am not calling it abandoned because it lacks density. I am calling it abandoned because most of the city truly is abandoned and boarded up. Not too long ago there was a time when on the weekends you could not walk downtown without bumping into people . Not too long ago could you walk downtown between the hours of 7 am to 9pm that you couldnt walk in the downtown area without bumping into crowds. Not too long ago there almost a 1000 places to eat and drink downtown. Now there are very little. My comparison again, is not to nyc but to what Detroit was before and is now. My god, what's wrong with some of you on here? I am not knocking Detroit . I love it probably more than some of you but I will not pretend its all honky damn dorey when it isnt. The city is about to collapse as Hamtramck has and all you guys can do is sit here and brow beat people like me who would like to have a conversation on how to stop that from happening but everytime a person says something about the negative they are attacked. Geez people, admit its a messed up place thats the first step to recovery. (Message edited by walterwaves on January 26, 2007) | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8214 Registered: 10-2003 |
There is something inherently frustarting about hearing someone complain about the state of Detroit now to the state of Detroit then after they have left the city. It sounds like you left for better opportunities and that is certainly a smart thing to do but it is frustrating as hell to hear of the hundreds of thouands of cheerleaders that 'wish' Detroit was how it once was but expect everyone else to do something to bring it up to their standard. Maybe if all of the 'I wish Detroit were like 19XX' crowd moved back to the city there would be hope that it may one day be like 19XX. As long as the thousands and thousands wait for someone else to make it like 19XX there is no chance in hell that will ever happen. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 790 Registered: 02-2006 |
Troll. That's all. Ignore it, and it will go away. | ||
Ohudson Member Username: Ohudson Post Number: 175 Registered: 09-2004 |
And the "diehard" Detroiters as you call them, don't compare Detroit to what it was but what it can be. Unfortunately, to reverse 50 years of decline, it has to start somewhere. The whole point of this thread was a comparison to NYC. Remember the question of restructuring Metro Detroit like NYC? Instead of providing something useful, you keep repeating the same thing. We all know the problems of Detroit, and this thread (realistic or not) was suggesting ways to make Detroit better. And, what do you mean, not too long ago? I was downtown last weekend and it was pretty packed. | ||
Walterwaves Member Username: Walterwaves Post Number: 43 Registered: 01-2007 |
Nice Focus, instead of trying to have a conversation you want a one sided review of the city. Keep the blinders on pal. Jt1, We were forced out because of employment opportunities . I had to leave. Family business went to pot. No jobs. Is there really something wrong with someone wishing their hometown would get better? Whats wrong with saying the truth? I said Id like to come back but I can't. Im rooted here now but my love for my hometown is still strong and like stated before I will not walk around with blinders on and pretend Detroit does not have major issues. If you do that you are only in for a big letdown my friend. face the issues/problems and attack them. Don't just sit here blowin in the wind like everyone else on this board. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8217 Registered: 10-2003 |
WW - I know the issues exist. I would suspect most of us do and many of us are doing our little things to improve the situation. The problem is the vast numbers of people wishing Detroit was better but unwilling to do anything about it. Obviously being in NYC there isn't too much you can do (although donating to cultural insitutions and charities can still be done) but there are thousands upon thousands within a few miles of the city that wish it were like back in the day but sit on their hands. If people are going to bitch about the problems I think it is fair that they would be expected to step up and help as well. There is nothing wrong with saying the truth. we hear it here non stop. I just wish more people (in the city, the burbs and farther out) would be willing to put in time or money to help the city as opposed to reminsicing and bitching. | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 682 Registered: 11-2003 |
Good Post, Jt1. As for Mr. Waves, it's nice that he has maintained an interest in his former hometown, and his efforts at dialogue about Detroit's issues and their solutions are better than many. Nonetheless, most of his opinions precisely resemble the mindset and culture of that enormous generation of people that left Detroit in the 1960-1985 era. (I am not making this racial; I don't know Mr. Waves' heritage.) For so many of this group, their views are locked in a time warp and skewed by the issues that prompted their departure. Many of these people left the city and perhaps the region for perfectly valid reasons but the conditions that led to their departure have since evolved. Detroit has changed, and Detroit's solutions are different. Detroit has many problems but they are not to be solved by such urban renewal era solutions as condemning vast stretches of land and selling it off to corporations. (Casinos haven't killed off small business either.) And I don't believe that someone who left here 20 years ago has enough insight and first hand knowledge of the qualitiy of life across all of Detroit's neighborhoods to opine that the city is 90% abandoned. Indeed, the absurdity of such an assertion really demonstrates that many expatriates' understanding of Detroit often degenerates into myth and rumour. If Mr. Waves truly harbors an interest in Detroit and a desire to be involved in solutions, he should become better reacquainted with this place. | ||
Walterwaves Member Username: Walterwaves Post Number: 45 Registered: 01-2007 |
(although donating to cultural insitutions and charities can still be done) Like to hear a funny but absolutely true story? I have invested my life's savings in a collection of relics,manuscripts and period photographs that deal with black history,slavery and black civil war soldiers. Mostly on slavery and black civil war soldiers. The collection is a little over a 1000 pieces. Now while it cost me a pretty penny to come across everything I have I am by no means rich, nor even well off. I live basically hand to mouth even though I make a decent living. (child support) At any rate , I tried to loan my collection to the African American museum and they turned me down. Not once, but 5x!!! And they refused it. Now that it is in 4 other museums and gaining popularity, I receive calls from them asking to loan it. NOPE, not happening. My kindness was refused and then I literally got cussed out. go figure. Is my loan/donation not good for my city and why? | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8222 Registered: 10-2003 |
I believe that there is a new manager at the CHarles Wright Museum. No need to hold a grudge from past people's shortcomings. The loan would be very good for the museum. The more exibits they can get the better. And still we rise is an amazing installation if you get a chance to check it out. Certainly a nice gesture and the treatment is completely unacceptable. | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 3690 Registered: 10-2003 |
But apparently its enough for him to justify holding a grudge even in light of that change... | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8223 Registered: 10-2003 |
I am not positive of the change. If I tried 5 times and was treated poorly I may hold a grudge as well. If I am right that it is under new leadership I would certainly try it again. | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 3691 Registered: 10-2003 |
Well that would only be if you felt that strongly about sharing something that you hold dear with a place that you hold in such high regard... But holding a grudge in any respect is adolescent at best. But then again I don't know all that transpired, what WW said could be true, but it could be exaggerated I wasnt there, so I cant comment. But I can offer my opinion, and I think it is juvenile... But thas just MHO... (Message edited by detroit_stylin on January 26, 2007) | ||
Walterwaves Member Username: Walterwaves Post Number: 46 Registered: 01-2007 |
Well Jt, While I agree the museum is amazing, I can not take it away from those already promised. Unfortunately, my loyalties in the museum arena regarding my collection lay with the museum which originally took it in on loan and they are allowed to keep it for as long as I live, free of charge at which time my son takes ownership and he is free to do what ever he wishes with it. Unfortunately, that museum is way south of Detroit and my son has no ties to Detroit other than my coming from there. So, they will probably never see it. It really is unfortunate because when I heard about it being built I was gung ho and on the band wagon to do anything I could but, once again I was knocked to the back of the line. Now that Detroit has begun a rennaisance of some sort Im tempted to jump back in and in a huge way but am afraid ill get knocked to the back of the bus again. Oh well. Something to ponder. | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 1069 Registered: 02-2004 |
I don't think you guys are paying attention. Walterwaves says the city is empty, and it doesn't matter how many people you see, or your experiences or even the facts, the city is empty. Get used to it. In fact, you're not even there! Empty! Ghost town! Tumbleweeds! | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 2890 Registered: 08-2004 |
Detroit is the way it is because of BAD LEADERSHIP, RACISM, and NEGLIGENCE. And when I say bad leadership. Include the state government as well. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 900 Registered: 06-2006 |
Walter says (and I quote): but I will not pretend its all honky damn dorey when it isnt. Was that a Freudian Slip or an intentional racist statement? Did you mean HUNKY? | ||
Walterwaves Member Username: Walterwaves Post Number: 47 Registered: 01-2007 |
another moron that wants to turn a mistake into a racial issue. I meant honkey dorey. I never heard of hunky dorey sorry pal. If im wrong, Im wrong but for you to call someone racist makes you an asshole. Crawl back from under the rock you once came. (Message edited by walterwaves on January 29, 2007) | ||
Yvette248 Member Username: Yvette248 Post Number: 417 Registered: 10-2006 |
News story of the new map of Detroit's "burroughs" (i.e. regions) I referred to a week or so ago. http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll /article?AID=/20070131/BUSINES S06/70131032 "In addition to the bureau’s new message, the bureau will make new maps that ease metro Detroit navigation for tourists, focusing on five areas – downtown, Wayne/Dearborn, North Oakland, South Oakland and Macomb. The group is also redesigning its Web site to include things such as podcasts and blogging." | ||
Revolutionary Member Username: Revolutionary Post Number: 119 Registered: 09-2004 |
Hamtramck and Highland Park are probably the closest to resembling burroughs. | ||
Nyburgher Member Username: Nyburgher Post Number: 147 Registered: 10-2006 |
L train towards Canarsie, passes through east NY, Ocean Hill, Brownsville.-- I've seen enough pictures, videos and overhead views of Detroit to see the resemblence. old single family home neighborhoods, mixed with industry and interspersed with housing projects. Many of the homes gone, burned out open fields. Also throw in Howard Beach, South Jamacia, Sprinfield Gardens in Queens. The general thing these places have in common is single family housing and poor access to public transit. | ||
Nyburgher Member Username: Nyburgher Post Number: 148 Registered: 10-2006 |
You are right about Harlem and the south bronx, These were both dense areas with large amounts of apartment buildings and transit lines. The resemblence is in the abandoned areas. Deep Brooklyn--L and south Queens are the closest. | ||
Xd_brklyn Member Username: Xd_brklyn Post Number: 214 Registered: 10-2003 |
Nyct--Interesting move. As Queensfinest said, you will not find an equivalent for any Brooklyn neighborhood in Detroit. Think you probably found that out by now. Instead, enjoy what you can't find in NY. (Have been meaning to write this list for awhile.) I would recommend the DIA's film theater series. It's something most film-loving NYer would envy. Great theater, classy schedule. NY has plenty of great theaters and many places with great films but the two are never in the same place. And of course there's the Fox, but I don't remember the last time they showed a film while I was in town. Also check out "The Inn Season" in Royal Oak if you are not into the healthy food genre. It has a near perfect menu, great prices, and something unique to life outside of NY, plenty of elbow room. The few spots in NY that met this criteria over the years did not survive for long. Also the Dakota Inn on John R, just north of McNichols. There are places in NY that may serve better German food but there is no place in NY that matches the ambiance of this faux German tavern. ...and Coney Island hot dogs. If you develop a like for this local fare, Lafayette and other locations mentioned on this site are all recommended for trying. Again, as for finding something like Brooklyn where EVERYTHING is within walking distance, forget it. As a NYer, I find the true asset of Detroit is being able to live in a inner-ring suburb with all its pleasures of space, garden, storage, sunlight..etc and to be only minutes away from the museums, eastern market, downtown, and sporting arenas. You are part of the city yet have space inside and out. Plus I just find these areas more family-friendly in general, but that maybe because I grew up in this environment. Also the local rock scene. You'll see the same bands and same people over and over again with some new blood every now and then. Have always considered this a plus as you get some constancy and the whole becomes like a neighborhood within a larger whole. Also the bands get local press whereas the NY Press just doesn't have room for such on-goings, so you can follow it even at a distance if you wish. Something I find impossible here. And also the Motown and Dossin Museums. The first is just completely unique to Detroit, the second because I've yet to visit any NY museum with so much dedication and so little money. It's really a microcosm of the best of Detroit's effort to bring itself back. And of course, Greenfield Village and Rouge tour. This website, my local forums here, http://dailyheights.com , just don't cut it. Also one-ups I would score for Detroit would be Tiger Stadium, the Stroh's Haus, its former local TV personalities, and Boblo, but that was my old Detroit. Well, having lived in both cities for over 20 some years, those are my observations. Enjoy your new home. (Message edited by xD_Brklyn on March 19, 2007) | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 456 Registered: 11-2005 |
Once you have lived in NYC , you can't live anywhere else" ... it must be true for most! i expected to find some NYC ex-pats here when i first moved out here in august, but have yet to come across any. I'm a former New Yorker. Lived in Manhattan. NYCT, are you still enjoying living in Detroit? If you need any help finding stuff, etc., let me know. Happy to be an ambassador of sorts for the D.! |
