Discuss Detroit » Active Archive » Work has started on the Moose Lodge « Previous Next »
Top of pageBottom of page

Supersport
Member
Username: Supersport

Post Number: 11554
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 2:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just drove by and saw a crew of about 12 working on the Moose Lodge. They had a small crane in place, removing the HVAC it appeared. They were also removing what seemed to be roofing of some sort, probably in preparation of repairing the roof. It seems that the place may be the venue that replaces St Andrews Hall now that it is for sale.

With the C. C. Bar and a restored Moose Lodge, the addition of a new hockey arena would really bringing this area to life. It has already got a pulse these last few years, but it would be nice to see other stuff, like the Chen Tiki, also reopen.
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1099
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 2:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was under the impression that the Moose would have to be demolished for the new hockey arena...what's this about restoring it?
Top of pageBottom of page

Kenp
Member
Username: Kenp

Post Number: 491
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 2:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We wont let them tear down the Moose.
Top of pageBottom of page

Dnvn522
Member
Username: Dnvn522

Post Number: 236
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 2:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I was under the impression that the Moose would have to be demolished for the new hockey arena...



Not if they fit it within this four block area:


Top of pageBottom of page

Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 4257
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 2:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Paging Dan for details.....
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1100
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 2:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Not if they fit it within this four block area:"

Sorry but I just see how the district could accommodate ANOTHER stadium placed right on top of existing parking space without (at the very least) replacing that parking, not to mention adding more...

Putting a stadium on that 4-block space without touching the surrounding blocks simply isn't realistic, or wise for that matter

My $$$ says Moose is getting knocked down...it's what makes the most sense

(Message edited by thejesus on May 07, 2007)
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1101
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 3:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"We wont let them tear down the Moose."

I like how Detroiters like to label people like Patterson an "obstructionist" for standing in the way of economic development (i.e. Cobo) by representing his peoples' interests, yet Detroiters will stand in the way of new professional sports stadium that would be a HUGE for Detroit's economy if it means anything built before 1980 has to get knocked down...

look, I love it when old building get saved, but there isn't anywhere downtown where stuff can be built without pissing someone off by knocking down a historic, dilapidated vacant structure...reality is that you can save a few of them, but you also have to sacrifice a few...

now, all that said, I don't know that the Moose is being knocked down, but I simply don't see it surviving a decision to build a new hockey stadium in that spot
Top of pageBottom of page

Kenp
Member
Username: Kenp

Post Number: 495
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 3:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think many feel its ok to remove a building if it means something special is coming. The Commerce building is a good example. The Majority of Detroiters were ok with the decision to remove it. I for one was happy to see it go for the sake of progress.
Top of pageBottom of page

Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 4258
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 3:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No the Moose is NOT getting knocked down. Not unless Ilitch already owns it, which he doesn't. It is owned by Blair McGowan, who probably doesn't want to sell (he's a preservationist, and knows what Ilitch would do to the building).

There is plenty of Ilitch owned empty land that can accommodate parking structures for an arena on that 4 block site. The Cass Adams block just south of this picture, is Ilitch owned and mostly empty (for a parking structure). And that empty block at the top of the picture could also be Ilitch owned, meaning another possibility for a parking structure.

If you're thinking large spacious land area with a sea of parking (like around Comerica Park and Ford Field), then forget it. The vote to end Eminent Domain in the last ballot initiative has nixed that idea.
Top of pageBottom of page

El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 140
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 3:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There are two reasons why the stadium won't fit in on those 4 blocks.

1. No way, the guy who owns Centaur and has put so much money into making that location work is gonna sell.

2. The fire station next to Centaur is the closest fire station to downtown. They would want to keep that for insurance purposes.
Top of pageBottom of page

Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 4259
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 3:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

...and also, Cass Ave., the street east of the Moose CANNOT be closed for a new Arena (it's the main thoroughfare between downtown and western midtown). Clifford, on the other hand, can be closed.
Top of pageBottom of page

Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 4260
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 3:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think any buildings ALONG Park Ave. will be in danger of coming down for a new arena.

An aerial overlay of both JLA and the Palace has been done ad nauseum on many old "west Foxtown Arena" threads for this 4 block site. So it appears doable without tearing down Park Ave. buildings.
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1102
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 3:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"...and also, Cass Ave., the street east of the Moose CANNOT be closed for a new Arena (it's the main thoroughfare between downtown and western midtown). Clifford, on the other hand, can be closed."

There's no reason Cass would have to be closed, so let's not even discuss that...Brush is the eastside equivalent to Cass and it survived two stadiums being built...
Top of pageBottom of page

Dnvn522
Member
Username: Dnvn522

Post Number: 238
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 3:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is plenty of parking outside those four blocks for a ramp or two:







And it's been shown that a stadium could fit and still save the Centaur & Fire Station buildings.
Top of pageBottom of page

Bobj
Member
Username: Bobj

Post Number: 2085
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 3:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That would great to see!
Top of pageBottom of page

Dnvn522
Member
Username: Dnvn522

Post Number: 239
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 3:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And with a JLA overlay:



Top of pageBottom of page

Urbanize
Member
Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1150
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 3:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They would have a better chance building the thang at the Woodward spot. At least there's more space to work with. At the same time however, I would love for Parking Lot World to get developed and the Hockey Arena appears to be it's only hope. Problem is, THERE'S NO ROOM. How come Ilitch just can't hustle up the Gratiot lot and build on it. It will be in close proximity to the Casino and other stadiums
Top of pageBottom of page

Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 4261
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 3:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I believe that the price tag of over $30 million (what Greektown Casino paid for it) is a major hindrance.

And let's see about spin-off.... Juvenile Hall to the south... city and county Jail & Murphy Hall of Justice to the west... freeway to the east... so I wouldn't bet on that site!

And besides... Greektown Casino is NOT the one owned by Marion Ilitch.
Top of pageBottom of page

Urbanize
Member
Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1152
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 3:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm aware that the Ilitches don't own Greektown Gistok. So either places get demoed or no stadium. That's that.
Top of pageBottom of page

Charlottepaul
Member
Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 974
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 7:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Moose might not have to be torn down for a stadium. Remember that the Gem theatre was renovated just prior to Comerica Park going in. The Gem was moved (albeit only after a law suit) and saved; not torn down. A similar thing COULD happen with the Moose.
Top of pageBottom of page

Charlottepaul
Member
Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 975
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 7:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Plus, I think that there is already enough stadiums in that area...
Top of pageBottom of page

Spiritofdetroit
Member
Username: Spiritofdetroit

Post Number: 468
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 7:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

well, pal, a stadium is going there. It really doesnt matter what you think about that. And Ilitch will knock down anything in his way. Lets hope he chooses a site with minimal structures
Top of pageBottom of page

Urbanize
Member
Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1157
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 7:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well maybe if we built the stadium the long way (along Cass), then maye it will limit the amount of demoltion. However, I still think the far buildings closest to Clifford on those E/W streets will have to go.
Top of pageBottom of page

Ramcharger
Member
Username: Ramcharger

Post Number: 246
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 9:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)





This, it seems to me, is the most workable footprint for a foxtown arena. Entrance plazas could be located on Adams Ave. and on Park Ave. Between this new arena, the Fox Theater and Comerica Park there could finally be enough pedestrian traffic to allow Ilitch to develop the shopping arcade along Columbia St. between Park and Woodward Ave. that he has been planning for years. The only problem with this site would seem to be a renovated C. C.’s Bar. I don’t know what’s up with that.
Top of pageBottom of page

Urbanize
Member
Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1161
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 9:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Ramcharger for laying out my image of the arena. MAybe this will lead to some type of development for the Films building if the stadium is built that way. I still would rather have a retail strip along Grand River. I like your outline though.
Top of pageBottom of page

Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 4266
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 12:05 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Spiritofdetroit... just in case you are not familiar with the situation since the last election. A statewide ballot initiative passed that severely curtailed the use of Eminent Domain in Michigan.

If Mr. Ilitch really wants to knock down anything in his way, he will have to do so by purchasing the properties outright. There will no longer be a city or county authority to strip landowners of their property without consent.
Top of pageBottom of page

Dan
Member
Username: Dan

Post Number: 1396
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 12:11 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I cannot get into details regarding the moose, but I will say this; There is some stabilizing work going on, and the building is not going anywhere.
Top of pageBottom of page

Spiritofdetroit
Member
Username: Spiritofdetroit

Post Number: 470
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 12:11 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gistok-
I am aware of that, however I really dont think that will affect Ilitch too much. He already owns a huge majority of the necessary land, and many of the buildings that would be torn down are already under his ownership. He owned far less land with the Comerica deal. I would think that he would be able to stiff-arm a couple of land owners if necessary to fit his plans
Top of pageBottom of page

Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 4267
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 12:18 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And with that I agree Spiritofdetroit... all he has to do is to "imply" to reluctant landowners, that he would prefer to buy their property, rather than wall them in by encircling them with a super parking structure.
Top of pageBottom of page

Emu_steve
Member
Username: Emu_steve

Post Number: 283
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 4:37 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good point, Gistok.

I remember in the late 70s when Atlantic City was building their casinos and a few holdouts held out.

They literally built around them.

At the end, I'd suspect a few reluctant landowners would finally 'cave' when they see the writing on the wall.
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1107
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 11:30 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I cannot get into details regarding the moose, but I will say this; There is some stabilizing work going on, and the building is not going anywhere."

Somehow I doubt this...
Top of pageBottom of page

Fury13
Member
Username: Fury13

Post Number: 1619
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 11:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There will likely be landowners in that area who simply will not sell, no matter what Ilitch offers.

More power to them.

I'm anxious to see what the renovated C.C. Bar building looks like. If it comes back as a bar, I will make a point of patronizing it on a semi-regular basis. Same goes for the Moose Lodge.
Top of pageBottom of page

Dialh4hipster
Member
Username: Dialh4hipster

Post Number: 2061
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 12:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


CC Bar in 2008
Top of pageBottom of page

Rjlj
Member
Username: Rjlj

Post Number: 326
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 12:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"renovated C.C. Bar"
You know this is not going to happen, right?
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroit_stylin
Member
Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 4044
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 12:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Caption please?
Top of pageBottom of page

Toolbox
Member
Username: Toolbox

Post Number: 1068
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 12:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Detroit_stylin

Caption please?



Don't piss of the guys with backhoes!
Top of pageBottom of page

Matt
Member
Username: Matt

Post Number: 1183
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 1:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

God, I just love people who think they are civil engineers because they have access to Google Maps and Microsoft Paint.
Top of pageBottom of page

Dialh4hipster
Member
Username: Dialh4hipster

Post Number: 2062
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 1:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mouseover the photo for the caption, please.
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroit_stylin
Member
Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 4047
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 2:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No see el caption...
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1109
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 2:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The caption is: "CC Bar, 2008"
Top of pageBottom of page

Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 728
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 2:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Isn't that building on one of those preservation lists that would prevent it from being torn down?
Top of pageBottom of page

Crew
Member
Username: Crew

Post Number: 1255
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 2:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

list? what list? we don't have no stinkin' list!
Top of pageBottom of page

Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 4270
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 2:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OK.... I'm starting to worry now... the one person who CAN answer our questions about the Moose Lodge is "DAN"... and he is not answering.

Dan... please come to the courtesy phone....
Top of pageBottom of page

Dan
Member
Username: Dan

Post Number: 1397
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 3:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gistok, see above post ;)

Heeee
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1116
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 3:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gistok:

I don't think Dan or anyone else on this forum really knows what going on with that building...it's all speculation at this point
Top of pageBottom of page

Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 4273
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 4:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Dan, I somehow missed your earlier post.

Thejesus... yeah I think that Dan is clueless... only because HIS FATHER OWNS THE BUILDING!!!

(Message edited by Gistok on May 08, 2007)
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1127
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 9:39 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

right, and McGowan's my twin brother, and so I have inside information too...see how easy that is?

The fact of the matter is, Dan has provided no information about the building other than to say that he can't provide any information about the building...you could have asked me and I would have given the same answer...I suppose I just need a little more verifiable information than some before I take someone's comments on an internet forum to the bank...

Anyway, I see one of two possibilities here...

1. Ilitch bought the building or struck a deal with the owner to level it for the hockey arena, and the building is being prepared for demolition, but they are keeping it hush-hush so they don't have to deal with all of the the historical preservation obstructionists-types who'd rather keep a vacant building standing than develop a new hockey arena...

2. More likely is that the site is needed or very much wanted for the part of the new hockey arena plans and McGowan knows this and is anticipating being sued by Ilitch or the city for the property, so they are making improvements to the structure to make it harder for the city to condemn it and to make it appear that they had a legitimate use planned for the Moose and that they aren't just speculators trying to cash in big on plans for a new hockey arena...


(Message edited by thejesus on May 09, 2007)
Top of pageBottom of page

Rjlj
Member
Username: Rjlj

Post Number: 327
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 9:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

2 is partially correct.

Why do you think the C.C. bar got a new roof last year.
Top of pageBottom of page

Fury13
Member
Username: Fury13

Post Number: 1628
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 10:56 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thejesus: You REALLY, REALLY, REALLY want a new hockey arena in that area, don't you?
Top of pageBottom of page

Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 4280
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 1:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The_jesus, if you were Blair's twin brother, you wouldn't be making such an ass of yourself on this thread...

Dan in the past has mentioned several things about that building (as well as about Grosse Isle (where the McGowan's live) on another thread) that not just anyone would know about.

Let's just let this play out, and then see who is the bigger fool...
Top of pageBottom of page

Detourdetroit
Member
Username: Detourdetroit

Post Number: 299
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 1:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

as telephonically witnessed from the mouth of mr. mcgowan: "the moose is not going anywhere...it will be here a hundred years from now" i believe it. coyly skirted were present and future ownership arrangements. imho, "ilitch land" is a reality that must be cajoled, monitored and (hopefully) inspired to be the best that it can be. it is NOT a long term solution for the CBD. a healthy city dictates numerous interests and developments working productively together. a single private owner monopolizing land is not an ideal state for the future of our detroit. in the near term, higher standards must be enforced! "park" land in ilitch town should be regulated as prime real estate in other major cores, not like the outskirts of a dustbowl carnival.
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1135
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 2:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fury:

It's just a matter of balancing interests...I want a new hockey arena, period. Many people here, on the other hand, want to find any reason why a new hockey arena should not be built...doesn't matter where it goes..they'll always find some irrelevant structure (such as the Vermont Hotel) that they think should be saved, and if there isn't one, they'll just say it doesn't belong in the particular neighborhood (see the FBI building thread for more info on this asinine attitude)

A new hockey arena would be a boon for the entertainment district and for Detroit in general...saving vacant structures is a good thing, but you can't realistically save them all, and certainly not at the expense of building a new hockey arena...
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1136
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 2:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gistok:

so it's me v. Dan suddenly? like one of us has to be wrong? he very well may have inside info...my point is, he didn't provide any in this thread, and I read those other threads about the Moose and he didn't provide any info that couldn't have been gotten elsewhere...all I'm saying is proceed w/ caution when taking facts stated on internet forums to the bank...or don't...
Top of pageBottom of page

Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1

Post Number: 9100
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 2:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

see the FBI building thread for more info on this asinine attitude




I love how you can dismiss the opinions of people that live in the area and have a vested interest in the area as an 'assinine attitude.'

I believe that the difference is you are looking at what will make your visits more enjoyable whereas we are looking at what will make the city better for the residents. Two vastly different viewpoints with two vastly different interests.

That said I like the idea of an arena back there be we do not need more parking. We also do not need to let Ilitch have his free will to do whatever he wants. An arena that is built as a fortress certainly will not a be 'boon' for the district as you say. An arena, properly built with consideration to the residents, to a scale that makes sense, and something that will encourgae traffic/business on non game days would be great. A blocked off arena surrounded by parking with no way to encourage spin off business, retail or traffic is not a good thing. Recreating a Tiger stadium style arena that does nothing for the area 284 days of the year isn't the best design in my opinion and the opinion of many others.

Have some consideration to the residents when you tout your 'anything is better' attitude. Anything isn't always better.
Top of pageBottom of page

Eric_c
Member
Username: Eric_c

Post Number: 962
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 2:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thejesus can't win on the FBI thread so he comes over here to name call where he thinks his less-than-well-researched opinions won't be attacked.

This young boy knows everything - just ask him!
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1137
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 2:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

JT1:

I was actually looking into moving downtown last summer...I was either going to get one of the condos at Riverfront towers or rent a loft at merchants row...but...

then I started reading this board and saw how unwelcome people from the suburbs are in Detroit, especially those of us from, dare I say, Livonia...I found the attitudes of many of you to be rather disgusting and generally unpleasant,a dn decided I wouldn't feel comfortable living among you...

After weighing to pros and cons, I decided to take my life and my dollars to the city of Northville, (which I've grown to absolutely love btw)...

My goal is not to make Detroit a better place for me to visit...it's to make it a better place to live by marginalizing those of you with divisive attitudes toward the suburbs and to eliminate your obstructionist practices so that one day, maybe even by the time I graduate, Detroit WILL be a place where I want to live...

P.S. My address may not be in the D, but I pay $18k every year (which is more than many of you spend in Detroit in a single year) to the city's primary research university alone, which I care about and would like to see make strides...I'd say that gives me enough of a vested interest to state my opinions...if you don't like it, that's tough...
Top of pageBottom of page

Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1

Post Number: 9102
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 2:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

then I started reading this board and saw how unwelcome people from the suburbs are in Detroit, especially those of us from, dare I say, Livonia...I found the attitudes of many of you to be rather disgusting and generally unpleasant,a dn decided I wouldn't feel comfortable living among you...

After weighing to pros and cons, I decided to take my life and my dollars to the city of Northville, (which I've grown to absolutely love btw)...



I do not for a second believe that your home buying decision came down to how people were on a message board. This board represents a fraction of a percent of the citiznes of Detroit, if that much.

quote:

My goal is not to make Detroit a better place for me to visit...it's to make it a better place to live by marginalizing those of you with divisive attitudes toward the suburbs and to eliminate your obstructionist practices so that one day, maybe even by the time I graduate, Detroit WILL be a place where I want to live...



Yo ustill aren't getting it. Hoping for development that is smart and will make the area better is not obstructionist. You throw that word out too easily. Do you think that a fortress arena, surrounded by parking will make the area better?

quote:

P.S. My address may not be in the D, but I pay $18k every year (which is more than many of you spend in Detroit in a single year) to the city's primary research university alone, which I care about and would like to see make strides...I'd say that gives me enough of a vested interest to state my opinions...if you don't like it, that's tough...



Your claim that 18K is more than many of us spend is really pushing it. $18K is only $1500 per month. My mortgage is more than that and I assume that the majority of people that live in the city more than cover that between mortgage, insurance, utilities, taxes, etc. That comment once again shows your attitude.

You are free to give your opinion but the fact that you have very little or no respect for the opinions of those of us that live in the city shows how narrow minded you can be.

PS - I already paid my full tuition to WSU for my masters and a chunk of my undergrad. That certainly doesn't make me an expert on every decision that WSU makes.
Top of pageBottom of page

Eric_c
Member
Username: Eric_c

Post Number: 963
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 2:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"then I started reading this board and saw how unwelcome people from the suburbs are in Detroit, especially those of us from, dare I say, Livonia...I found the attitudes of many of you to be rather disgusting and generally unpleasant,a dn decided I wouldn't feel comfortable living among you..."

So you're a very easily swayed pussy? So you can dish it out but can't take it? That is EXACTLY what you just said.

"My goal is not to make Detroit a better place for me to visit...it's to make it a better place to live by marginalizing those of you with divisive attitudes toward the suburbs and to eliminate your obstructionist practices so that one day, maybe even by the time I graduate, Detroit WILL be a place where I want to live..."

How do you plan on achieving that goal if you won't move here and don't like the people who ARE here? Why would you even bother?
Top of pageBottom of page

Sharmaal
Member
Username: Sharmaal

Post Number: 1104
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 2:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"After weighing to pros and cons, I decided to take my life and my dollars to the city of Northville, (which I've grown to absolutely love btw)..."


Weighing pros and cons? More than likely Mommy and Daddy didn't want their child "in that city".

I'm amazed they even let you go to school at Wayne.
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1139
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 2:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eric:

dish what out? I don't attack people from Detroit like you guys attack people from the suburbs...I just attack morons who happen to live in Detroit...you guys, on the other hand, like to generalize...

btw, I think I just saw a bulldozer going down Porter street by the FBI building site...I think you better go run and try to save that precious surface lot while you sill can...lol
Top of pageBottom of page

Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1

Post Number: 9104
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 2:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Weighing pros and cons? More than likely Mommy and Daddy didn't want their child "in that city".

I'm amazed they even let you go to school at Wayne.



thejesus annoys me as much as the next but that assumption is probably a bit of a stretch.
Top of pageBottom of page

Mdoyle
Member
Username: Mdoyle

Post Number: 73
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 2:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good lord (no pun intended) did you really reconsider moving to Detroit because of the opinion of a few people on a message board. You have to have a litter thicker skin than that. I would say that friends of mine that live in Detroit are approximately 70% west siders (mostly Livonia) while I am an east sider. Obviously the "divisive attitude" hasn't dampened their spirits. You have to take what people say and do on an anonymous message board with a grain of salt.

(Message edited by mdoyle on May 09, 2007)
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1140
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 2:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Weighing pros and cons? More than likely Mommy and Daddy didn't want their child "in that city"."

lol...I'm about a decade past that age buddy...I've been in the IT field for 8, going on 9 years and haven't received a dime from "mommy and daddy" since I was 16...lol
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1141
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 2:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To all of you:

No, I didn't base my decision to move to Northville instead of Detroit on a few morons on DetroitYes...

it was more like a factor that tipped the scale in favor in Northville, and it wasn't just limited to people on this board...it about the general attitude and lack of respect people in Deteroit show towards people who were raised in the suburbs

hope that clarifies
Top of pageBottom of page

Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1

Post Number: 9105
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 2:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I don't attack people from Detroit like you guys attack people from the suburbs...



quote:

it about the general attitude and lack of respect people in Deteroit show towards people who were raised in the suburbs



Hope that clarifies

To have the gall to generalize about Detroiters like that is ridiculous. But we all know that there are no shitty attitudes about Detroit from people in the suburbs.

You are coming off as quite a hypocrite by lecturing Detroiters about their views about the suburbs and ignoring the attitude of many in the suburbs about Detroit. I expect to see you on the Freep boards lecturing all of the anti-Detroit comments.
Top of pageBottom of page

Eric_c
Member
Username: Eric_c

Post Number: 964
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 3:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Clarifies that you're a pussy with no real desire to do a fucking thing.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1

Post Number: 9106
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 3:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Stop being mean. It is obvious you must be speaking on behalf of all Detroiters.
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1142
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 3:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

JT1:

Hence the phrase, "general attitude"...seems everyone else got that but you...also, you're again dealing in absolutes...that's a big no no...

"But we all know that there are no shitty attitudes about Detroit from people in the suburbs."

hope that clarifies...
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1143
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 3:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Clarifies that you're a pussy with no real desire to do a fucking thing."

direct name calling gets you kicked off the forum Eric...

nice knowing you...
Top of pageBottom of page

Eric_c
Member
Username: Eric_c

Post Number: 965
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 3:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Like there's anything left here, anyway?

Nice knowing you too, pussy. ;)

PS - Notice he didn't deny the point of my statement?
Top of pageBottom of page

Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1

Post Number: 9108
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 3:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So are you saying that there is a general anti-suburb attitude in Detroit but not a general anti-Detroit attitude in the suburbs?

I'm trying to understand your most current rationale?

Do you want me to start linking to some of the comments of general attitudes of people in the suburbs that post on the Freep board?
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1145
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 3:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No, I'm saying that you tend to assume that anyone from the 'burbs has an anti-Detroit attitude because you're prejudiced against suburbanites....I'm saying that I chose not to live in Detroit because of the general anti-suburbanite attitude there...it only takes a handful of people to make someone not feel welcome JT..

and what's more, you guys just don't get it, or you just fail to admit that you're driving away more people than just me with this attitude...but it sure does feel good to hate on the suburbs, doesn't it? I just hope it's worth it to you

(Message edited by thejesus on May 09, 2007)
Top of pageBottom of page

Eric_c
Member
Username: Eric_c

Post Number: 966
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 3:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually, it just feels good to hate on assholes.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1

Post Number: 9111
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 3:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

it only takes a handful of people to make someone not feel welcome



But whenever anyone criticizes the suburbs you get defensive. Why the double standard? When people, often jokingly, refer to Livonia as racist you insist that the comments of a few don't represent Livonia but you are going with the opposite claim here.

quote:

and what more, you guys just don't get it, or you just fail to admit that you're driving away more people than just me with this attitude...



I highly, highly doubt that a forum really has a large effect on people's decision where to or where not to buy a home. Additionally, how many times have people been offered tours, help, advice, history, etc on this forum.

Funny how you get much of the negative attitude. If many think that you are being a jerk you have to wonder if they are all wrong or if you are the one that is wrong.
Top of pageBottom of page

Gumby
Member
Username: Gumby

Post Number: 1584
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 3:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

and what more, you guys just don't get it, or you just fail to admit that you're driving away more people than just me with this attitude...



What are you talking about thejesus? It is this site and the people here that piqued my interest in Detroit and ultimatly Flint where I am the new owner of a house just outside of Downtown.

It is attitudes like yours that turns me off the knowitall people who like to tel people how to run their lives.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1

Post Number: 9112
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 3:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://info.detnews.com/feedba ck/lettersindex.cfm?topic=detr oit_renaissance_0504&forum=dnl etters

thejesus - Can you start calling out the anti-Detroit non-sense on this thread? I can post many more.

But for me to believe that there is an anti-Detroit attitude from many in the suburbs is wrong whereas you can make assumptions about all of Detroiters attitudes on this board. Your hypocrisy and circular logic is pitiful.
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1147
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 3:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yep, anyone who applauds forward motion and economic development in Detroit must be an asshole...don't they realize that they're supposed to piss and moan about irrelevant structures being knocked down or throw a fit when surface lots get replaced by brand new buildings?

you're a dying breed Eric...time to face it
Top of pageBottom of page

Eric_c
Member
Username: Eric_c

Post Number: 969
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 3:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You are a failure at debate, pussyboy. Time to face it; you lose AGAIN because you can't read:

Eric_c
Member
Username: Eric_c

Post Number: 958
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 9:00 am:

------------------------------ ------------------------------ --------------------
I THINK YOU'RE TOO THICK-SKULLED AND OBSTINATE TO READ WHAT I'VE WRITTEN. YOU ARE DRAWING BIZARRE CONCLUSIONS AND ARE NOT READING WHAT I SAY.

Never have I implied that I want to see buildings sit vacant. You are inserting words into my posts.

In case you haven't been paying attention, Scott Martin and Corktown have been building beautiful, single-family homes in the style of a traditional neighborhood with great success in "North Corktown". They've also been working on plans for Tiger Stadium which are forward-thinking and modern, while at the same time work to preserve the scale and feel of the area. What's wrong with this kind of development?

The "stick it there" development model has been going on in Detroit for decades. If that's "your way", you've got to know it fucks up neighborhoods.


You should quit before you bury yourself anymore.
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1152
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 3:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

oh that's right...you're the one who thinks that if the FBI doesn't build there, a bunch of single family homes are going to rise up on that site overnight..

lmfao!
Top of pageBottom of page

Eric_c
Member
Username: Eric_c

Post Number: 971
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 3:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No...there you are being dilusional again and putting words in my mouth.

What I said was:

Eric_c
Member
Username: Eric_c

Post Number: 958
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 9:00 am:

------------------------------ ------------------------------ --------------------
I THINK YOU'RE TOO THICK-SKULLED AND OBSTINATE TO READ WHAT I'VE WRITTEN. YOU ARE DRAWING BIZARRE CONCLUSIONS AND ARE NOT READING WHAT I SAY.

Never have I implied that I want to see buildings sit vacant. You are inserting words into my posts.

In case you haven't been paying attention, Scott Martin and Corktown have been building beautiful, single-family homes in the style of a traditional neighborhood with great success in "North Corktown". They've also been working on plans for Tiger Stadium which are forward-thinking and modern, while at the same time work to preserve the scale and feel of the area. What's wrong with this kind of development?

The "stick it there" development model has been going on in Detroit for decades. If that's "your way", you've got to know it fucks up neighborhoods.

In so far as where to put the FBI? You got me. The decision's been made and we're all going to have to deal. It's too bad that this is all that can be done.

That said, I stand by my original statement and opinion that this suburban-styled bunker looks like hell and is inappropriate for the site.


www.rif.org
Top of pageBottom of page

Toolbox
Member
Username: Toolbox

Post Number: 1069
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 9:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Thejesus

I don't think Dan or anyone else on this forum really knows what going on with that building...it's all speculation at this point



Hey fucktard, Dan's father does own the building and Dan can't say whats going on. In the past I have worked at the Moose and St Andrews for his father. Would you give up your business plan to morons on a message board?
Top of pageBottom of page

Buzzman0077
Member
Username: Buzzman0077

Post Number: 73
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 3:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think there is a little too much anger on all sides of this discussion. This is one of the nastiest erosions of a thread I have seen.
Top of pageBottom of page

Downtown_remix
Member
Username: Downtown_remix

Post Number: 167
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 7:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

WE ARE ON THE MOOSEHEAD THREAD RIGHT/? What the hell is wrong with you all. They say it's the youth thats destroying everything, but look at this discusion. All haters can now leave Detroit.
Even though we hate to see another 10,000 leave this month, negative close minded peeps that we clearly forced into this hateration concentration camp can go to brownstown, Utica, and Livingston county, while Detroit slowly brings back to life the pieces of our quilt that once brought global astonishment. The Moose is gonna be so hot
Top of pageBottom of page

Buzzman0077
Member
Username: Buzzman0077

Post Number: 75
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 8:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

word!
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1155
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 8:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I think there is a little too much anger on all sides of this discussion. This is one of the nastiest erosions of a thread I have seen."

I agree
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1156
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 8:59 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Hey fucktard, Dan's father does own the building and Dan can't say whats going on. In the past I have worked at the Moose and St Andrews for his father. Would you give up your business plan to morons on a message board?"

settle down there buddy...whether he knows or he doesn't, it tends not to matter for the purposes of this thread since the only info he provided was that he can't provide any info...

that being the case, I'm speculating on what's likely going on there, and I say either a quite sale occurred and the building is being prepped for demo, or, more likely, the owner is making improvements in anticipation of a condemnation lawsuit by the city...
Top of pageBottom of page

Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 4289
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 1:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, I guess some folks minds are already made up then...

I went back and re-read some of the more meaningful posts on this thread (by folks whom I know, but I will not "out")... and as has already been stated ad nauseum... "the Moose is not going anywhere".

Dan has stated it, his father (via a phone call) has stated it, so that's good enough for me.

For those of the rest of you who aren't sure about the future of the Moose, all I can say is. If the Moose were east of Cass, I might worry a little. But it is west of Cass, where the triangular footprint of the site is probably a little too small (there's also a church on that property, and even Mike Ilitch has learned... don't mess with the churches).

So for those that do care and worry about the Moose, all I can say is "I'm not going to lose any sleep over it"!! :-)

In the future however, I will relish using the "I told you so"...
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1159
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 2:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I will relish using the "I told you so"..."

exactly who would you be saying this to?
Top of pageBottom of page

Kslice
Member
Username: Kslice

Post Number: 24
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 4:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yo, Da Moose aint goin nowhere! HockeyTown will always be in the Joe! Fox town already has the Tigers and Lions the dont need the Wings.

Don't bother with Thejesus, he's just tryin to start stuff over and over.
Top of pageBottom of page

Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 4293
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 4:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kslice, I haven't seen you post before... so welcome!

Yes Thejesus... I meant you... the "doubting Thomas"!

This thread is getting tiresome, so don't expect any more replies...
Top of pageBottom of page

Kslice
Member
Username: Kslice

Post Number: 27
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 4:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Gistok i've been on for a few weeks now.:-)
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1161
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 5:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gistok:

So you're doubting the possibility that McGowan is making improvements to the building in anticipation of a condemnation suit by the city? Don't worry...if and when that happens, I won't sink to the level of "I told you so" ; ) we shall see

Kslice:

Welcome, btw...I'm not trying to "start stuff", just speculating on what's going on...and you're likely incorrect in stating that a new hockey arena will not be built in Foxtown...

(Message edited by thejesus on May 10, 2007)

(Message edited by thejesus on May 10, 2007)
Top of pageBottom of page

Rhymeswithrawk
Member
Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 715
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 5:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Really, the best place to put the new stadium would be in the Corridor north of 75. 'Course, Ilitch doesn't own the land there, so he wouldn't want to do that, but that's about the only way that area can be saved, me thinks.
Top of pageBottom of page

Erikd
Member
Username: Erikd

Post Number: 853
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 2:48 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I was actually looking into moving downtown last summer...I was either going to get one of the condos at Riverfront towers or rent a loft at merchants row...but...

then I started reading this board and saw how unwelcome people from the suburbs are in Detroit, especially those of us from, dare I say, Livonia...I found the attitudes of many of you to be rather disgusting and generally unpleasant,a dn decided I wouldn't feel comfortable living among you...

After weighing to pros and cons, I decided to take my life and my dollars to the city of Northville.



Thejesus,

Your fear of not being welcome as a new resident of Detroit, just because you came from Livonia, is unwarranted. In fact, much of the anti-suburb sentiment on this forum is posted by Detroiters that have lived in the suburbs at some point in their lives.

It seems that you did not understand the context in which most of these anti-Livonia/suburb statements were made, and took them as a personal insult...

quote:

I don't attack people from Detroit like you guys attack people from the suburbs...I just attack morons who happen to live in Detroit...you guys, on the other hand, like to generalize...



Thejesus,

You like to throw around accusations at the Detroiters on this forum, but have you ever looked at the situation from our point of view?

You said that you were on this forum in the summer of 2006, thinking about moving into a downtown apartment. You said that the anti-Livonia/suburb attitude turned you off, and made you feel unwelcome in Detroit.

Did it ever occur to you that this anti-Livonia sentiment was caused by the grass-roots uprising of Livonia residents fighting to keep Detroiters out?

In September 2005, over 500 Livonia residents flooded a city meeting to protest a new Wal-Mart, claiming that it would "ghettoize" the area, and attract too many Detroiters.

In November 2005, the MAJORITY of voters in Livonia chose to opt out of the regional SMART transit system, in favor of creating a bus system that would only run in Livonia.
----------

quote:

I didn't base my decision to move to Northville instead of Detroit on a few morons on DetroitYes...

it was more like a factor that tipped the scale in favor in Northville, and it wasn't just limited to people on this board...it about the general attitude and lack of respect people in Deteroit show towards people who were raised in the suburbs

I'm saying that you tend to assume that anyone from the 'burbs has an anti-Detroit attitude because you're prejudiced against suburbanites....I'm saying that I chose not to live in Detroit because of the general anti-suburbanite attitude there...it only takes a handful of people to make someone not feel welcome



If it only takes a handful of anti-Livonia statements from a few Detroiters to make a suburbanite not feel welcome, what does a majority vote in Livonia to cut off transit services from Detroiters say?
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1170
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 9:23 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ErikD...

In regard to the Walmart comment, a handful of residents (not 500) that live near the Walmart site made stupid comments at a planning commission meeting...so what? Livonia is 36 square miles large...wtf do those people have to do with me? And why do you guys ignore the fact that our elected officials (placed in office by a majority of Livonia residents to represent our interests) are the ones who told these assholes to sit down and stfu?

And the SMART bus issue is just retarded...Livonia is hurting for $$$ like every other government in the area, so we eliminated a bus service we don't use...Detroit eliminates services they don't use all the time...perhaps one day when Livonia's financial situation improves it can start dishing out cash to benefit the people of Detroit again...OR, if the people of Detroit want to pony up the $$$ to get themselves to Livonia, they are more than welcome to...at the moment, however, Livonia can't afford it and Detroit should be GRATEFUL to Livonia that they had the service for as long as they did

but the point is, none of what I posted matters to any of you because you simply get off on hating everyone from the suburbs...

(Message edited by thejesus on May 12, 2007)
Top of pageBottom of page

French777
Member
Username: French777

Post Number: 167
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 6:56 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Do you think the New " Joe" would be smaller or bigger or same # of seats
Top of pageBottom of page

Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 4315
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 7:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

French777, it will likely have a similar number of seats. I doubt it will have fewer. A new arena will not only want to maximize the profits for selling out the house, but also compete against the Palace for other events.

Building a smaller arena would work against that competition, even though it might provide better sight lines for hockey.

But the rivalry between Mike Ilitch and Bill Davidson is so intense, that a new "Olympia" will likely be state of the art, and a 1st class facility.
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1215
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 7:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I wasn't aware Ilitch and Davidson were rivals...I always assumed they hung out in the same circle of sports franchise owners (i.e., Gilbert, Karmanos, etc.)
Top of pageBottom of page

Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 4316
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 7:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nope... no love lost between Ilitch & Davidson. They're entertainment rivals, and from what I've heard don't like each other.

I've also heard the same for Ilitch & Karmanos, but Karmanos was such a class act when he put the congrats sign on the side of his HQ when the Wings last won the Stanley Cup, that I am confused about that rivalry.

Also, I don't remember any such signage on the side of the Fox Building when Karmanos's Hurricanes won the Stanley, however.

I know that Gilbert and Ilitch are friendly. From what I understand, Atanas Ilitch & Dan Gilbert are good friends (similar age group).

And Gilbert & Karmanos seem to be on good terms. That then begs the question about Gilbert & Davidson and Karmanos & Davidson.

I can't keep it all straight!

But definitely... no love lost between Ilitch & Davidson.

(Message edited by Gistok on May 14, 2007)
Top of pageBottom of page

Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 2150
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 8:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The competition between Ilitch and Davidson is (among other things) entertainment bookings between The Palace and Ilitch's venue(s), not just sports teams.

I gotta admit I'm not too keen on how the new casinos with performance spaces are going to impact the traditional downtown venues. I'd hate to loose a gem like Music Hall to a casino room.
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1218
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 8:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"no love lost between Ilitch & Davidson"

hmmm...well, either way, they both have one foot in the grave and a decade from now the direction of both their holdings may look vary different
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroit_stylin
Member
Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 4079
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 9:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"vary"?
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1258
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 11:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

so according to information in the thread below, it appears that Ilitch owns the Moose Lodge now...not sure why "Dan" was unable say as much...

https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/5/101533.html?1179833816

(Message edited by thejesus on May 22, 2007)
Top of pageBottom of page

Ndavies
Member
Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 2621
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 11:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thejesus, Where does it say ilitch owns the moose lodge? I don't see that anywhere. The list includes properties owned by other individuals and the header to the list designates which properties are owned by Ilitch. The Moose lodge isn't one of them.
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1259
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 12:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ndavies:

Moose Building, LLC is listed as the owner of the Moose Lodge...according to the Michigan DLEG, the LLC was just formed in February and John Kotlar, Ilitch Holdings' VP of tax affaris, is listed as the resident agent for the LLC, which, coincidentally, shares an address with Olympia development (2211 Woodward)...

so, assuming all this information is correct, it would appear that Ilitch now owns, or at least controls, the property

P.S. The document that created the LLC was signed by none other than Atanas Ilitch

(Message edited by thejesus on May 22, 2007)

(Message edited by thejesus on May 22, 2007)
Top of pageBottom of page

Verifiable
Member
Username: Verifiable

Post Number: 11
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 12:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thejesus, I'll confirm what you've posted here ... I was about to create your same post.

You can see a complete map of some 160 parcels owned or controlled by the Ilitch organization and its affiliates on Maps.LIVE.com

Also note at Maps.LIVE.com: Elizabeth Street Properties LLC (pins 157-161) and West Grand River Lofts LLC (pin 162)
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1260
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 12:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Verifieable:

Do you have anything else other than the maps.live site that lists the LLC as the owner of the Moose building?

Also, would you mind providing a little background for us on theverifiabletruth.com, which I'm assuming you run...

thanks
Top of pageBottom of page

Verifiable
Member
Username: Verifiable

Post Number: 14
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 2:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Records on file with the Wayne County Registry of Deeds indicate Moose Building LLC's association with the Moose Lodge property on Cass Avenue. And as you indicate, documents on file with the Michigan Department of Labor & Economic Growth indicate the affiliation with the Ilitch organization.
Top of pageBottom of page

Verifiable
Member
Username: Verifiable

Post Number: 24
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 2:39 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

On February 2nd an agreement filed with the Wayne County Registry of Deeds was entered into by Anban, Inc. (Blair McGowan) and Moose Building LLC (Ilitch controlled) for the Moose Lodge at 2115 Cass Avenue.

On February 19th McGowan granted a warranty deed to Ilitch.

By all accounts it looks like McGowan has either transferred ownership of the Moose Lodge to Ilitch; or Ilitch has an options agreement with McGowan for future acquisition.

The terms of any agreement have yet to be disclosed and details were excluded from public documents on file with Wayne County.
Top of pageBottom of page

Verifiable
Member
Username: Verifiable

Post Number: 25
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 2:47 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

On February 2nd an agreement filed with the Wayne County Registry of Deeds was entered into by Anban, Inc. (Blair McGowan) and Moose Building LLC (Ilitch controlled) for the Moose Lodge at 2115 Cass Avenue.

On February 19th McGowan granted a warranty deed to Ilitch.

By all accounts it looks like McGowan has either transferred ownership of the Moose Lodge to Ilitch; or Ilitch has an options agreement with McGowan for future acquisition.

The terms of any agreement have yet to be disclosed and details were excluded from public documents on file with Wayne County.

Perhaps this will bring some clarity to all of the hearsay that's been posted here recently.
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1265
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 10:00 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nice!
Top of pageBottom of page

Fury13
Member
Username: Fury13

Post Number: 1689
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 10:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ilitch will still have to build around the former C.C. Bar building. That one, for sure, is NOT owned by Ilitch, and it's being remodeled and will be reopened.
Top of pageBottom of page

Rsa
Member
Username: Rsa

Post Number: 1133
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 10:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

no, not nice. now it can be leveled for surface parking, which is the M.O. of their "development" arm.
Top of pageBottom of page

Gotdetroit
Member
Username: Gotdetroit

Post Number: 48
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 11:05 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't get the whole Moose thing. Really. It's on the west side of Cass, so it shouldn't be an issue.

Best bet would be to incorporate the Moose into any new stadium, i.e. Hudson’s. If they have to build ON Cass to link the two, route Cass below grade. Someone tell me I'm a genius.

(Message edited by gotdetroit on May 23, 2007)
Top of pageBottom of page

3rdworldcity
Member
Username: 3rdworldcity

Post Number: 649
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 11:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gotdetroit: You're a genius.

OK, the Feb 2nd agreement probably was recorded to provide notice to the public that Ilitch had an interest in the property, probably an option.

Once a Warranty Deed was recorded , Moose Bldg. LLC became the owner.

Normally,the consideration for the sale must be printed on the front of the deed UNLESS the parties filed a "Valuation Affidavit" which is not public information and permits the parties to avoid stating the consideration on the front of the deed and requires the Registrar to affix the transfer tax stamps (from which the consideration could be calculated) to the back of the deed.
Top of pageBottom of page

Emu_steve
Member
Username: Emu_steve

Post Number: 309
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 11:47 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Doesn't this bit about the Moose and demo that other building strongly suggest things will happen this summer after the playoffs are over.

When will be the announcement?
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1266
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 11:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Emu:

Yes. Personally, I'm holding out hope there will be a joint announcement of an arena and a building on the Statler site, given their close proximity and Ilitch's involvement in both...perhaps once both Ilitch's and Gilbert's teams are done with their playoff runs, we'll get some news...
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1267
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 11:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"no, not nice. now it can be leveled for surface parking, which is the M.O. of their "development" arm."

If they do, then so be it...that building wasn't going to be anything for the foreseeable future anyway...

I'm just glad there's signs that something big is on the horizon...
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1268
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 12:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I don't get the whole Moose thing. Really. It's on the west side of Cass, so it shouldn't be an issue."

Any project to build a new stadium will also likely include improvements to the surrounding areas, such as street scape improvements and the removal or renovation of vacant, dilapidated structures...

also, don't forget that not only are they putting a new arena in an area that already has two of them, but they're also building right on top of the existing parking for that area, which means they'll not only have to replace the parking they'll lose, but they'll also have to add more...

there's more that goes into building a stadium than just the structure of the stadium itself...
Top of pageBottom of page

Emu_steve
Member
Username: Emu_steve

Post Number: 310
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 12:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'll take a flier and say this:

Hockey arena coming soon to Foxtown.

Gilbert might be up to something soon but not at the Statler site.

That's my 'exacta' pick (like picking the top two horses in a race).
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1269
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 12:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'd say it's highly unlikely Gilbert will build anywhere but the Statler site if he builds downtown...I suppose there's always the possibility that he'll occupy existing office space, but there's really no where else to build downtown that rivals the Statler site
Top of pageBottom of page

El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 167
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 12:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thejesus,

what about the Monroe block or the Hudson block?
Top of pageBottom of page

Gotdetroit
Member
Username: Gotdetroit

Post Number: 49
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 1:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

“Any project to build a new stadium will also likely include improvements to the surrounding areas, such as street scape improvements and the removal or renovation of vacant, dilapidated structures...

also, don't forget that not only are they putting a new arena in an area that already has two of them, but they're also building right on top of the existing parking for that area, which means they'll not only have to replace the parking they'll lose, but they'll also have to add more...

there's more that goes into building a stadium than just the structure of the stadium itself...”

I get that, but I’m not seeing why (when compared to the rest of the area in question) why such a small footprint building that is the Moose would have to be leveled to include both a stadium and the requisite parking. The Moose is a building that is architecturally relevant, a connection to the past, if you will, and he (Ilitch) could score some major PR points by incorporating the Moose into a new arena, by both building new AND showing that he is sensitive to the past. Maybe it could serve as a waiting/concourse area like that new glass addition thing they put on the Palace.

I know, I know, his preservation track record isn’t anything to scream about, but saving at least one “in the way” building that is, at least in my eyes, an attractive one, might smooth over a few naysayer’s. Not that naysayer’s matter when you own everything.

I dream lots.

3rd world: thank you.
Top of pageBottom of page

Emu_steve
Member
Username: Emu_steve

Post Number: 311
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 1:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thejesus - I'd bet existing space.
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1270
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 1:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gotdetroit:

I don't know if it has to be leveled or not but if I were Ilitch, I would definitely want control of that building/plot of land given it's close proximity to where the area is likely going...I can think of all sorts of things he may want to do with the building or with the site if the building gets leveled...
Top of pageBottom of page

Verifiable
Member
Username: Verifiable

Post Number: 27
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 5:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Has Illitch acquired the historic Moose Lodge in downtown Detroit, and what are his intentions?
Top of pageBottom of page

Ramcharger
Member
Username: Ramcharger

Post Number: 280
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 6:15 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ilitches may add to monopoly... Real estate arm eyes Moose Lodge, which may be another step toward new hockey arena.

quote:

When asked if he and his partner, Amir Daiza, are considering selling the Moose to the Ilitches, McGowan replied:

"We will never put that building in jeopardy of being demolished. And we would not like to be in a position to stop them from putting up a new hockey arena."


It may be difficult for them to reconcile those two positions.

(Message edited by Ramcharger on May 25, 2007)
Top of pageBottom of page

Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1289
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 8:18 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"They haven't bought the building but appear poised to get a piece of the action if two veteran music promoters carry through on their promise of turning the building into a 1,500-capacity club and live music venue."

nice!
Top of pageBottom of page

Rjlj
Member
Username: Rjlj

Post Number: 340
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 8:53 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not if they move the building.
Top of pageBottom of page

El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 177
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 9:48 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My hope is that Ilitch wants to partner with them in turning it into a club/concert venue and use the Olympia Entertainment wing of the empire to do the booking for the Moose Lodge.
Top of pageBottom of page

Fury13
Member
Username: Fury13

Post Number: 1704
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 12:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The value of 220 W. Columbia keeps going up.
Top of pageBottom of page

Verifiable
Member
Username: Verifiable

Post Number: 35
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 1:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Clearly the parties have not been honest with reporter Louis Aguilar. Documents filed with the Wayne County Registry prove they have been talking and that the basis of a deal has been consumated.

Blatant half-truths and lies are what prompted the creation of www.TheVerifiableTruth.com

Karen Cullen is the Ilitch Family's "DeeDee Myers" -- not consulted during the strategic decision making process but thrust forward to deny the decisions.
Top of pageBottom of page

Verifiable
Member
Username: Verifiable

Post Number: 36
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 1:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The convenants and development restrictions in the "agreement" on file with Wayne County Registry apparently prohibt relocation of the building.
Top of pageBottom of page

Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 4393
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 2:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Verifiable, I have to agree with you on their not being very honest with the News reporter. It would be VERY presumptuous of the Ilitch's to have an LLC with the "MOOSE" name on it, without there being some agreement in hand.
Top of pageBottom of page

Verifiable
Member
Username: Verifiable

Post Number: 37
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 2:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Moose Building LLC was given a Warranty Deed by Anaban, Inc. (McGowan) that was "received" by the Registry on February 19, 2007. Moose Bldg holds title to the Moose Lodge now. And they did yesterday when they denied it to Aguilar.

An agreement between Anbar and Moose Building LLC was filed February 12 so it's a bit disingenuous for McGowan to say he's never heard of Moose Building LLC; unless of course, he wasn't aware of the deal.
Top of pageBottom of page

Verifiable
Member
Username: Verifiable

Post Number: 38
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 3:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ilitch agreement requires Moose building be preserved & renovated, doesn't allow relocation
Top of pageBottom of page

Verifiable
Member
Username: Verifiable

Post Number: 39
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 4:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Detroit News story today reported:

"Blair McGowan, one of the co-owners, said he was unaware Olympia Development had formed a corporation named after the building ..." [reference to "Moose Building, LLC"]

And yet Mcgowan, on behalf of Anban Inc., signed documents along with Atanas Ilitch, on behalf of Moose Building LLC, that were recorded with the Register of Deeds on February 12, 2007.

And as sellor also signed over the title of the Moose Lodge property to "Moose Building, LLC" which was recorded on February 19.
Top of pageBottom of page

Rbdetsport
Member
Username: Rbdetsport

Post Number: 269
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 4:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Verifiable, Stop advertising your website.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jelk
Member
Username: Jelk

Post Number: 4406
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 5:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Verifiable, Stop advertising your website.



Why his website is trying to sell any product, it provides good sound information, and he is sharing it with us. What's wrong with that?
Top of pageBottom of page

Eric
Member
Username: Eric

Post Number: 838
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 5:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^^^
Please STFU.
Verifiable has provided tons of valuable information on this subject.


This is appears to be great news for the Moose Lodge.
Top of pageBottom of page

Colkurtz
Member
Username: Colkurtz

Post Number: 7
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 5:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We do not know all the facts & situations of this particular deal, if I was in their shoes, I may not want to tell a reporter the whole truth, or anything at all, unless of course that was part of my strategy. We have no idea of all the ins and outs of the deal. Nor do we have the absolute right to know all the details.

I think it’s interesting that the owners of the CC Bar press on with their renovation, I wonder what their plan is?

(Message edited by col.kurtz on May 25, 2007)
Top of pageBottom of page

Jelk
Member
Username: Jelk

Post Number: 4407
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 5:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

We do not know all the facts & situations of this particular deal, if I was in their shoes, I may not want to tell a reporter the whole truth, or anything at all, unless of course that was part of my strategy.



Then don't say anything at all. Nothing good comes from lying to the press. Telling a lie that can be easily disproved in a quick search of the public record is not only a bad move, it's sheer stupidity.
Top of pageBottom of page

Colkurtz
Member
Username: Colkurtz

Post Number: 8
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 5:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Again, you are not privy to all the facts, so I would hold off calling the man a liar.

I think the most important thing is, it appears the building is safe.
Top of pageBottom of page

Bumble
Member
Username: Bumble

Post Number: 108
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 5:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Nor do we have the absolute right to know all the details.



It's a matter of public record.

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Username: Posting Information:
Only registered users may post messages here. To participate click JOIN THE DISCUSSION at the left to obtain a free account.
Password:
Options: Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message
Action: