  Kathleen Member Username: Kathleen Post Number: 2247 Registered: 10-2003 |
This story covers the status of restoration work on a variety of Detroit landmarks. "Detroit, sometimes called a city of fabulous ruins, is in the midst of a multibillion-dollar building boom that's created hundreds of jobs for artisans handling the detailed and meticulous work of restoring old buildings and relics." "The city's push to spruce up downtown began about six years ago in preparation for Super Bowl XL last year. After decades of watching Detroit's architectural jewels decay, small, specialized firms are now finding the city fertile ground. It has given rise to such new businesses as Kristine Kidorf's historical preservation consulting firm, which works to ensure the renovations are true to history. She has advised developers on major buildings in downtown Detroit, as well as in Ann Arbor and Farmington. It's allowed general contactors like Chezcore to get more business. The restoration firm trains workers for up to five years for the specialty work like the restoration of the Hurlbut Memorial Gate at the city's Water Works Park. Detroit-based Chezcore also hires other niche contractors such as Venus Bronze Works Inc., which is restoring "Victory and Progress." ..." Full story at: http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20070430/B IZ/704300342/1003/METRO Check out the related video links! | ||
Waxx Member Username: Waxx Post Number: 138 Registered: 09-2006 |
That is interesting! I was working on a multi-part blog project called 'Detroit rises from the ashes' due 2 a lack of response I kinda got discouraged and let it go. But after reading this thread as well as the URL you posted, I might just post more blogs about it. I can give you the URL if you're interested. | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3820 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Ok, here's where the rubber meets the road folks. This issue has been bubbling for some time and it's just now getting coverage. Where have all the ardent preservationists on this board been on this issue? Why hasn't the call been raised? Why does it take a building hater to raise this issue? Every single poster here that has complained about the demolition of buildings in Detroit, every single poster here that has expressed frustration at the pace of redevelopment, every single poster here that has ignorantly claimed the City doesn't care about historic preservation...your moment is here. Are you lobbying the legislature? Are you lobbying the governor? Or are you just armchair posting here or putting up useless blogs? If you haven't done a damn thing, even bothered to fire off an email, next time you start to post to complain about how the City doesn't get it - - take two seconds and ask your self if you took the time to do anything or if you "got discouraged" because no-one visited your blog. | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3821 Registered: 10-2003 |
^^^ BTW, Kathleen, I assume you know I am not lumping you in that category! Hope your GWTW weekend was fabulous! | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 1455 Registered: 11-2005 |
quote: Just fired off some emails. Thanks for the heads up Kathleen and Skulker. | ||
Swiburn Member Username: Swiburn Post Number: 111 Registered: 07-2006 |
Absolutely, Skulker. As a city planning commissioner, I know that these things (i.e. tax credits) hang by a thread, depending on the whim of the legislators. If they think nobody cares, i.e. they get no calls or letters from people protesting the possible loss of credits, they will not hesitate to get rid of them. Historic districts will not work if there is no reward, i.e. the tax credit. So, as Skulker states, you can't just complain in this blog-you've got to go to the state. | ||
Mind_field Member Username: Mind_field Post Number: 716 Registered: 10-2003 |
Who, exactly, do we email? Pardon my ignorance regarding this. | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 1457 Registered: 11-2005 |
quote: I emailed my state rep. and state sen. http://www.legislature.mi.gov/ Click on "legislators" on the left side. | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3822 Registered: 10-2003 |
Governor Granholm http://www.michigan.gov/gov/0, 1607,7-168-21995---,00.html Your District Representative http://house.michigan.gov/ Your State Senator http://senate.michigan.gov/ind ex.htm The leaders of both parties in both houses. House: Andy Dillon Speaker of the House Craig DeRoche Minority Leader Senate: Senate Majority Leaders Majority Leader Mike Bishop Assistant Majority Leader Michelle McManus Majority Floor Leader Alan Cropsey Assistant Majority Floor Leader Cameron Brown Majority Caucus Chairperson Nancy Cassis Assistant Majority Caucus Chairperson Mark Jansen Majority Whip Jason Allen Assistant Majority Whip Roger Kahn --------------------------- Senate Minority Leaders Minority Leader Mark Schauer Assistant Minority Leader Tupac Hunter Minority Floor Leader Buzz Thomas Assistant Minority Floor Leader Glenn Anderson Minority Caucus Chair Gilda Z. Jacobs Assistant Minority Caucus Chair John Gleason Minority Whip Ray Basham | ||
Supergay Member Username: Supergay Post Number: 44 Registered: 05-2006 |
Guilty. | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3824 Registered: 10-2003 |
Interesting how this thread sinks while people still keep posting on yet another Quick Pic thread. With friends like that, why does Detroit need enemies? Where are the "Preservationists" on this forum pushing this issue? Lose the tax credit, kiss any more projects like the BC, PFS, Kales, Crystal Lofts, Research Lofts, Inn On Ferry Street goodbye. Seems to me that a lot of the folks wailing and gnashing their teeth about lack of vision ought to be up in arms. Where's the folks who nominated all of the CBD to the National Trust 10 Most Endangered List? | ||
48202 Member Username: 48202 Post Number: 35 Registered: 10-2003 |
Here is a draft e-mail that the Michigan Historic Preservation Network recommends you send to your Representative and Senator, with Detroit customization added by 48202. The source, with commentary is at MHPN RTC letter MHPN’s Report Card: The Economic Impacts of Historic Preservation in Michigan is also worth reading. Better yet, forward it to your legislator also. Date: Honorable Representative or Senator (name) (title -- if appropriate) (email address) Dear Representative (or Senator) _____________: I am writing to urge you to retain Michigan's Rehabilitation Tax Credit (RTC) program in the new Michigan Business Tax. We all seek a new Michigan Business Tax that will create jobs, encourage economic diversification for the 21st century, and grow our economy. The Rehabilitation Tax Credit is one of Michigan's most useful tools for creating jobs, stimulating economic activity, and adding to the state's revenue ledger. The economic impacts of historic preservation are well documented in Michigan. For every dollar of credit issued between 2001 and 2006, $11.43 was invested in the state's economy, resulting in $1.93 BILLION in total economic impacts over five years and the creation of more than 22,000 jobs. It’s important to note that these rehabilitation credits are issued only after expenses are incurred--the costs associated with the rehab projects have already generated significant economic impacts and state and local tax revenue well before the credits are issued. Michigan's RTC is also one of the state's most useful tools for revitalizing older communities. The RTCs stimulate investment in Michigan real estate and make an obvious physical difference. The RTCs assist in the repair and re-use of residential and commercial buildings in urban and rural areas alike--buildings that define community character and help make their communities great places to live, work, and visit. Our dollar-stretched communities cannot afford to lose these credits. These benefits are significant. In Detroit, rehabilitation of the Kales Building, Merchants Row Buildings, Book Cadillac Building, and Fort Shelby Building would not have been possible without Michigan's RTC program. Historic rehabilitation tax credits make rehab projects possible, and those rehab projects drive economic growth in Michigan. Historic rehabilitation tax credits must be retained--they are critical to attracting investment in Michigan and Michigan’s communities. They add jobs and revenue to our economy, value to our communities, and enhance our quality of life. Thank you for your consideration. Respectfully, Name address (you must complete this information when mailing) | ||
Fareastsider Member Username: Fareastsider Post Number: 356 Registered: 08-2006 |
Thanks 48202 | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 9377 Registered: 10-2003 |
Bump for the arm-chair preservationists. edited for a damn typo. (Message edited by GOAT on May 01, 2007) | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3825 Registered: 10-2003 |
Excellent work 48202! Thanks.... | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 2167 Registered: 10-2003 |
I just emailed my Rep. - Gabe Leland and Sen. - Tupac Hunter. I think I might have emailed them on this previously, but I did it again just to be sure. | ||
Bobj Member Username: Bobj Post Number: 2022 Registered: 11-2003 |
I have emailed my two reps and the gov, they have heard from me before on preservation issues and my desire to not spend my tax dollars on new roads out in the middle of no where, while there is perfectly good housing available around here. Lets fix the roads we have first so areas can be more easily restored! | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 2424 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Maybe they're writing to their elected officials instead of posting on this thread. Sheesh--you're gonna get ulcers, Skulker. | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3826 Registered: 10-2003 |
Ummm...actually my point was they were busy posting on OTHER threads...so they really couldn't be busy writing their legislators, now could they? Nice to see you contribute something useful here. | ||
Llyn Member Username: Llyn Post Number: 1832 Registered: 06-2004 |
I did my part. (Said as encouragement without any pride, but with a little joy.) | ||
Dan Member Username: Dan Post Number: 1391 Registered: 10-2003 |
Skulker, The language of the National Trust nomination was flawed. Appealing to the “100 buildings list” was a mistake that should not have been made. That said, the fundamental message of the nomination was not flawed. Detroit, as you know better than anyone, faces a great many challenges, and its buildings are in danger. Disrepair (either from negligence or economic hardship), and demolition are not uncommon fates for buildings across the city. Those who were involved in that nomination did not act out of spite, but out of devotion to our shared historical resources. I did not write that document, but my name along with many other names was on it. I apologize if the attention brought about by the nomination made your job more difficult. I have a tremendous amount of respect for the work you do, and have done. However, I do not regret the nomination. Any discourse that explores historical preservation in Detroit keeps the issues in the hearts and minds of the people who count. Any criticism reminds those in charge that someone is watching, whether that someone is local or national. And any press coverage on the issue helps to educate and inspire future preservationists, developers, city employees, and residents. I would bet that the nomination made many people in city government furious (Your resentment is obvious from the posts above). If I remember correctly, the nominations language was rather combative. The aggressive tone towards the city found in that document was certainly an emotional reaction to the heart break of watching the Madison Lenox and the Statler come down. The people that took the time to work on that nomination care deeply about preservation and development, we were not just trying to cause trouble. The nomination’s exact effects are uncertain, but it did not stifle development in the city, as can be seen all around us. It would be tragic to lose the state historic tax credits, and I am glad to see you are stirring people up, and pushing this letter writing campaign. *On a side note: I am disappointed that so many of the conversations on this forum have become arguments and attacks on each others character (or just snide comments about a participant’s family business). Being a preservationist can be as simple as advocating the reuse and protection of a historical building, but it can also be as complicated as working for a public-private partnership to leverage the necessary resources to save that building. Both are important, and people contribute what they can. I know that many of those involved in that nomination are preservationists who do more than just advocate, some are social workers who work to help the people of the city and the state, others are directors of non profits within the city, developers, business people, architects, filmmakers, students, and all of them care deeply about the city, and its preservation. I propose that the reasonable participants of this forum stop bickering at each other and focus on issues like the one at hand. Together we can leverage the power of this site to create change. In this case we should encourage more people to participate in this letter writing campaign. (Message edited by Dan on May 01, 2007) | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3828 Registered: 10-2003 |
Well intentioned post Dan that has many thoughtful comments. Do not take my agitation as personal assaults. I am simply trying to shake what is a fairly sizeable number of people out of pious and largely symbolic chest thumping while ignoring many of the larger and more difficult issues revolving around preservation and moving them to useful and meaningful action. Anyone who is not one of these people ought to not be bothered by my posts. If folks are bothered, well, good, hopefully I have moved the needle a tiny bit...and perhaps there is some re-examination in order for those that are uncomfortable. quote: And I disagree. To criticize just to criticize to "remind people are watching" is not at all productive. It PRESUMES that the people being watched are behaving in some manner that is implied as nefariousm illegal, unethical or at the very least incompetent. That is hardly a way to get to the table to make your voice heard and it makes the very people who should be your partners very defensive. quote: More profoundly disturbing was the wanton disregard for truth and outright lies and refusal to acknowledge those lies once exposed. quote: About $45 million in historic rehab has been delayed as developers pulled out, partially in reaction to the nomination. Countless hours have been spent by folks on the phone and meetings trying to counteract the effects. Yes, development is still occurring, but there could be much more. Here's a question: How much did the Kales run in development costs. Divide that into the $45 million and see how many Kales could be underway. | ||
Dan Member Username: Dan Post Number: 1392 Registered: 10-2003 |
Skulker, Thanks for the reply. I do not think anyone involved was lying. We may have been wrong, or confused, but lying means you were deliberately mis-stating the truth. I do not think that happened, or at least I did not witness it. As for our disagreement regarding the following statement: “Any criticism reminds those in charge that someone is watching, whether that someone is local or national.” I was not presuming anyone was being nefarious, more I was thinking that people in city government would be more mindful of certain issues knowing that a community of people who care deeply about that issue are watching, and have the means to communicate nationally. I think it makes people more sensitive. I do generally agree with you that people are inherently good. As for the $45 million, that is very disappointing, but at the same time I have to wonder about the developer. If they are scared off that easily, they must not have had very thick skin? Was that one development or several? You say delayed, not cancelled, do you think the deal will be salvaged? | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3829 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Add an "s" to the last word there. quote: Perhaps, but the level of hyperbole and blatant disregard for what was clearly in front of folks eyes leads me to believe they were at least willfully deluding themselves. Or that they were so stampeded into a position that they were unable to think rationally and felt self righteous about their actions in taking it to a national publication. Thats scary, Dan. Real scary. Makes people look at certain organizations with a raised eyebrow and have words like "squirrel bait" enter their minds when free associating those organizations. quote: This, again, presumes that the default position of people in charge is to immediately tear down and that historic preservation is anathema to them. That is clearly not the case as has been shown over and over and over again. Think about it for half a second. If there are paid professionals whose charge is economic development, one would think that they are smart enough to use any and all available tools. If their performance measurements are new investment, WHY would they turn down any reasonable investment. Thats like a sports car salesman refusing to sell red sports cars. It makes no sense. Moreover, why would they go on a binge of crushing all red sports cars? Sometimes, like the Statler, the red sports car is crushed because it has been totalled and is beyond all reasonable repair. If preservationists have a problem with certain decisions, like the demo of the Statler, perhaps they should attempt to understand the larger financial issues surrounding the demolition...instead of presuming the decision makers were either A] so blinded by some irrational aversion to old buildings they are willing to forego investment for the sole satisfaction of knocking something down or B] so shortsighted and incompetent that they can't see the intrinsic value of a building. A is the conclusion of a paranoid and delusional person and B is a conclusion that is presumptuous and usually reflects a poor understanding of all the issues surrounding a decision. There are many many competing interests in the City. Sure, the City could have spent millions of dollars per year to mothball the Statler on the unlikely scenario that it could be rehabbed with a very significant subsidy beyond the usual array of tax credits. Even heroes like the Ferchhill Group ran screaming from that building. In a time of very tight budgets, someone somewhere has to make the hard call. $2 million per year for the Statler or $2 million per year in police or fire payroll. It is a zero sum game. A decision FOR one priority is automatically a decision AGAINST many other priorities. A decision FOR police is a decision against grass cutting, recreation programming, new compters in the accounting department etc. The decision FOR mothballing the Statler would have been a decision AGAINST roughly 15-18 facade improvement grants or 10 small business loans or enhanced streetscapes in Greektown. And to have a group that feels they can can go to the national press with sensationalistic and misleading information when a decision has been made that does not reflect THEIR priorities is counter productive. Tends to keep organizations like that marginalized in any environment. | ||
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill Post Number: 229 Registered: 09-2006 |
Thanks 48202, we all need to get involved with this. Take the time folks , our voices need to be heard on this important issue. | ||
Downtown_dave Member Username: Downtown_dave Post Number: 120 Registered: 07-2005 |
Great help, 48202! Thanks for the template/text. I just sent a note to governor, senator and rep. | ||
Metaldoctor Member Username: Metaldoctor Post Number: 105 Registered: 01-2007 |
This is a great tread. thank you Kathleen for starting it. Recently, I have noticed that non-local fabrication and metal restoration company proposals seem to be favored over local businesses? Lately there has been a kind of boom in the area of city restoration projects. But, most of those major projects were given to companies outside the city of Detroit. If there are Detroit based business up for these contracts, none of its workers live within the borders of the city. How can this be? Can this be looked into? | ||
Hans57 Member Username: Hans57 Post Number: 111 Registered: 05-2006 |
Should I e-mail Carl Levin and Carolyn Cheeks Kilpatrick? | ||
Hans57 Member Username: Hans57 Post Number: 112 Registered: 05-2006 |
Sorry, I'm not really in the political loop. I've found who I should e-mail. | ||
Gargoyle Member Username: Gargoyle Post Number: 73 Registered: 04-2006 |
Thanks for the push, Skulker. And thanks for the info, 48202. I admit I should participate more in this effort. Hope the pols are buried in e-mails. | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3832 Registered: 10-2003 |
^^^ Me too. Thanks Gargoyle..and here's to many more picking up the baton.... | ||
Metaldoctor Member Username: Metaldoctor Post Number: 106 Registered: 01-2007 |
It is true this is a problem that we must solve together. We should force our leaders see what the future can hold and believe what Detroit can be. Not to shame them into doing something on a national level. As a person in the fabrication and restoration industry, I want to be a part of the revitalization of Detroit. But it not only up to out leaders, or even the preservationist, it up to us. We have to make sure the money and the tax credits are still around “wailing and gnashing their teeth about lack of vision” as Skulker once said doesn’t fall on deaf ears. | ||
Andylinn Member Username: Andylinn Post Number: 395 Registered: 04-2006 |
i emailed 6 reps. that is because i'm better than you. | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 808 Registered: 11-2004 |
Keep those e-mails comin' people | ||
Kathleen Member Username: Kathleen Post Number: 2255 Registered: 10-2003 |
If you haven't taken the time to write to your Representative or State Senator, or the Governor, please think about spending a few minutes doing so. Thanks!! |
