Discuss Detroit » Active Archive » St. Andrew's Hall closing? « Previous Next »
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Post Number: 677
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 1:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My friend was at the Hard Lessons show at St. Andrews on Saturday night where it was apparently revealed that Live Nation (Clear Channel) has sold the venue to Eminem, who plans on making it a recording studio. This sounds like make-believe, but she swears it's true. Anyone else heard this?
Apparently the venue is no longer booking shows and once it's last commitment is over, so is it's career as a concert hall.
No word on the fate of the Shelter.
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Detroitnerd
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 1:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's on a 99-year least, iisn't it? Unlikely.

(I meant to say 99-year lease, even.)

(Message edited by detroitnerd on April 22, 2007)
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Old_southwest
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 2:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What's a least?
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Dan
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 2:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is some validity to this rumor, but no agreement has been signed.
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Wfw
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 2:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sounds fishy to me. I don't buy it. Why would Eminem need such a huge space for recording purposes? The kind of material he records and produces can be done in a bedroom on a computer hard drive, unless he's suddenly interested in full orchestral productions....It makes no sense to me, but if true then its a sad development for the Detroit music scene.
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Charlottepaul
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 2:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

why would selling a venue to a Detroit artist for studio space be a "sad development for the Detroit music scene"? Doesn't sound all that bad in any particular way to me.
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Gistok
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 2:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I usually take rumors with a grain of salt... but "DAN" has a father who is a businessman involved with entertainment and is a downtown property owner. So I take this to be more than a rumor.

I had the pleasure of meeting DAN's father at a 1998 SAVE HUDSONS soiree at Intermezzo's.

Dan "outted" him once on this forum (as being the owner of a Foxtown building), but I will leave that up to him.
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Lilpup
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 3:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wfw, maybe it won't be just for him - think Detroit based artists having some place to get into without having to go to NYC or LA - a modern Motown
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Skulker
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 4:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I wonder if McCourt Music will get any of its equipment back?
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Mdoyle
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 4:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I also heard this rumor from a musician that had been on several international tours and now resides in the Detroit. They suggested it was time to get back to doing basement shows for indie bands. I think this is terrible. As much as I despise Clear Channel St Andy's is one of the greatest venues for smaller bands to play. Watch money disappear from the city as many national touring acts choose to play at clutch cargo's and the royal oak music theatre, not to mention the Blind Pig in Ann Arbor. I am officially declaring my opposition to the sale of St. Andrews.
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Skulker
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 5:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Take it the next level. Write a letter.
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Wfw
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 5:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mdoyle - you put it well. That's exactly how I feel. St. Andrew's Hall is a legendary venue in the city of Detroit and its closure would be a huge blow for the music scene.

As for "Detroit based artists having some place to get into without having to go to NYC or LA - a modern Motown" - you must be kidding me. Eminem is yesterday's news (well, maybe 1999's news) and so is the music business as we once knew it - CD sales are off nearly 30% from this time last year. No magical label will materialize to save Detroit's starving artists, sad to say. St. Andrew's closure will just leave them with one less place to play.
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Toolbox
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 5:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Lilpup

Wfw, maybe it won't be just for him - think Detroit based artists having some place to get into without having to go to NYC or LA - a modern Motown



Get a clue!!!!

There are already quite a few capable recording facilities in the city. Not that another facility would be a bad thing. The sale of this building might spur the redevelopment of another venue in the area. That would be a good thing, right???
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Lilpup
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 7:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

get a clue? YOU get a clue, tool.

with the attitude you display here I really don't give a fuck what Eminem does with it if he buys it - you aren't worthy of any help
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Club_boss
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 7:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"St. Andrew's Hall is a legendary venue in the city of Detroit and its closure would be a huge blow for the music scene."

Perfectly stated
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Smogboy
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 7:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I can't even begin to list some of the great shows I've seen at this venue. I've always loved its intimacy and size. It was always in the perfect place to me- the heart of downtown. Amazing that I still have any hearing left after all of those great shows there.
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 7:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Was just there to see Sean Lennon last Monday. Ya know, I used to go there all the time, but I think that was the first time I've been there in almost a year. Just seems like nobody I want to see plays there anymore.
I'm not a huge fan of the venue unless you're in the balcony. That, in my opinion, is the best place to see a show there. Place has a lot of character, though. I'll tell you this: I like it a helluva lot more than the Majestic Theatre.
I'll be bummed if the rumors are true. I just hope if it is opened as a hip-hop club that it doesn't turn into Altered State Version 2.0.
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Sticks
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 7:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, it wouldn't be the best thing for music fans of any type to loose St. Andrews Hall (and the Shelter).

Royal Oak Music Theatre is a bit bigger than St Andrews and a lot of bands might not be able to fill the building. Hence, RO might not want to book those acts. And can you imagine hip-hop shows happening there?

The Blind Pig seems the next logical choice. However, it's size leaves something to be desired. It's probably about the size of the Shelter, and both are great venues, but would lack of capacity ever cripple them?

I don't think I've actually been to the Majestic Theatre. I've seen a couple shows at the Magic Stick, quite a ho-hum venue especially with a pole blocking the stage.
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 8:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

But neither the Blind Pig nor the R.O. Music Theatre are in Detroit.
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Krawlspace
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 8:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The building is currently for sale, and has been for at least 6-8 weeks if not longer.
Several people I work with received letters of notice.
There is a condition to the sale that the building NOT be used for any type of concert venue or nightclub,
apparently to avoid any competition from their Big Sister venue up the street: The Palms-State-Filmore.
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Mdoyle
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 9:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Rhymeswithrawk" Thats the point. w/o st andy's bands that pull the mid range sized crowds. Not enough to fill the state theatre but too much for the Stick will have only the Majestic Theatre to play out. So look for them to be playing Clutch Cargo's or not at all in Detroit. In my line of work I have been able to befriend some people in the music business and many been excluding detroit from their more recent touring schedules.
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Gistok
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 12:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the info Krawlspace. Can such a condition (not to be used for concerts) be enforced by law?

If a new owner sold it to someone else, say within a short time, can such a stipulation be enforced on a 3rd party?

I sort of remember when Don Barden bought the United Artists Theatre, the seller (David Grossman) stipulated that it could not be sold to Mike Ilitch. Well Barden sold it to the city, who then immediately sold it to Mike Ilitch. Dave Grossman filed suit, but the suit was thrown out.
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Ladyinabag
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 12:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wfw-

Why record in your bedroom when you have millions of dollars to spend on a state of the art recording studio? And, the room would be no competition with The Filmore. It is too small.
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Yupislyr
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 1:20 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit seems to get bypassed fairly often for some tours as it is. At least with bands I pay attention to anyway. This development will only add to it. Oh well...
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Wfw
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 8:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lady in a bag - do you really think a hundred year old converted concert hall = state of the art recording studio? Come on. It doesn't make any sense from an economic standpoint, not to mention the fact that it would take years, maybe decades, to break even.
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Skulker
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 9:41 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wfw, please change your handle to "WTF?".
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Dannaroo
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 12:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Many of the artists and acts who would normally play a venue about the size of St. Andrews are already bypassing the Detroit area. With the demise of local and other independent music on WDET, and no other local stations really filling that gap, those bands just don't have the audience in this area that they used to.

IMO, it was only a matter of time before a venue of this size closed down in this area.
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Rjlj
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 1:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just because radio does not play it does not mean there is not an audience for it. Bands bypass a city because the venue does not book them. If St. Andrew's has been for sale for 2 month's I can see why nothing has been booked. The Detroit music scene may in a low but it is still present.
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Toolbox
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 1:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Lilpup

get a clue? YOU get a clue, tool.

with the attitude you display here I really don't give a fuck what Eminem does with it if he buys it - you aren't worthy of any help



I do have a clue. That was why I questioned your knowledge of the local recording studios, of which there are several. Never a mention of Emenim.

If the building is sold it might mean another of the holdings of the current owners gets renovated. If the building I am thinking of gets the green light, I think many people will be impressed.
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Hochi
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 1:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

St. Andrews/Shelter had been in a lull ever since Clutch Cargos (Formerly a local promotion company, not just a venue in Pontiac) was purchased by SPX who was in turn purchased by Clear Channel. St. Andrews used to be the primary venue for both local/national underground and burgeoning national musical acts. Now, it's just a venue for Clear Channel promoted bands. If someone does buy it, I hope they'll consider taking the venue back to its roots and working a little harder to book acts that skip Detroit because they don't want to play a Clear Channel venue. A lot of touring acts will skip Detroit because they don't see crowds around here like they used to. Is it a symptom of a larger problem with the music as a whole or is a local problem of apathy? I tend to think its the latter as there are cities of similar size to Metro Detroit that support an excellent underground music scene and also bring in national mid-to-underground touring acts.

Besides, St. Andrews is a really the best room in the city. I've seen so many incredible shows there in years past.
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Rsa
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 1:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hmmm toolbox, i think i know what you're talking about. that might not be a bad exchange, however it would be sad to lose the history associated with st. andy's. kinda a tiger stadium vs. copa debate.

so i understand correctly, does mr. mcgowan still own st. andrews and is leasing it to live nation? would this sale be a way for him to start running his own venue again, getting out of this current agreement?
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Pam
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 1:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I hope they'll consider taking the venue back to its roots



Bagpipe music? :-)

I saw a lot of shows here but I was never crazy about it. It reminded me of a high school gym for some reason. Plus it could feel claustrophobic when sold out. I prefer the Majestic.
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Krawlspace
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 1:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gistok:
The terms of the sale could be enforced by litigation, but as soon as the lawyers get involved, who can say. I do know that several potential buyers were turned off by the stipulation of not being allowed to have concerts there. I don't see any negativity to Eminem or anyone else using the building for a recording studio or a rumpus room. As long as it doesn't get torn down. The other aspect to the recording studio option is also the addition of private rehearsal space. Eminem has used local venues in the past, under hush hush conditions, to rehearse before going on tour. Any adaptive re-use suits me just fine.
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Goat
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 2:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Toolbox if St. Andrew's closes then what is the other venue? I was thinking The National Theatre.
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Buddyinrichmond
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 2:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great thinking GOAT!

Maybe this is what is happening with the national theater. I know some folks bash on Mel Washington on hear but he has great musical ties. He even named all the streets in his Woodbridge Estates development after Motown musicians. Maybe he'll put a clock tower on the National too!
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Rsa
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 2:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

nope, not the national. think of other social clubs that are still standing built around the same time as st. andy's. [not sure if toolbox wants me to let the cat out of the bag.]
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Goat
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 2:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Clock towers for everyone! I hear they are going to put a clock tower on the Pick-Fort Shelby. I think Maroun is going to add one to the MCS as well.

RSA, I can think of one or two that would fit that description but I don't want to put anyone ina difficult position. I just hope the venue is worth it.
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Krawlspace
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 2:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Women's Social Club on Park & Elizabeth?
Colony Club on Park & Montcalm?

Tee Hee Hee
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Buddyinrichmond
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 2:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Aw shucks, I wish I knew what you all know.
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Aiw
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 2:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Deutches Haus on Mack!
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Vas
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 4:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

HOchi,

Yeah I don't know why a lot of bands have been skipping Detroit. It may be because its out of the way for any Chicago/Minneapolis/Millwaukee shows and Detroit/Cleveland are getting passed up?
Or do bands really skip because of the Live Nation/Clear Channel dominance in ownership?
I think you're slightly right about fans not coming out for shows anymore. But thats the result of an overbloated market full of b.s. bands that can only claim any sort of following because websites are willing to give attention to B-grade talent in the name of "art."
I'm really sick of all the music hype there is about discovering new talent and thus allowing all these unfounded bands entry way into consideration bringing a sea of attempts in search of the next raw talent. SPIN, Pitchfork, ect seem to be more focused on quantity then quality. Names are dropped like crazy, but few are really worth mentioning

So I think bands are passing up Detroit for many reasons.
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Ladyinabag
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 4:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wfw-

Location, location, location....and the acoustics there are great. A great place to hold court. Or, a great place to be a sitting duck....which ALL rappers are, it seems to be, lately.

(Message edited by ladyinabag on April 23, 2007)
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Saintme
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 4:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

WTF is the Palms-State-Filmore????!!!!
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Spacemonkey
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 4:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Closing St. Andrew's would be sad indeed in a nostalgic way. I can't count the number of great acts I saw there from '84 on. Haven't been there in a few years though. No one I like plays there anymore. Or, rather, I'm not interested in the bands who do play there. So, I guess I don't really care.
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Detroitej72
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 4:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

WTF is the Palms-State-Filmore????!!!!

______________________________ ___________________

Clubland.
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Gistok
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 4:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Palms-State-Filmore (next door to the Fox) opened in 1925 as the State Theatre. It's name was changed in the 1930's to the Palms-State Theatre, and then the Palms Theatre in the late 30's/early 40's.

It was then changed again to the State Theatre. Then it had the additional CLUB-X name (along with still being called the State). Then it switched to CLUBLAND (along with still being called the State).

Well now (sometime this spring/summer) it will be renamed from the State Theatre to the Filmore Theatre, along with a new Marquee. It will still be owned by Chuck Forbes however.
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J_stone
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 5:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Moose Lodge - beautiful cornices.
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Gistok
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 5:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is the Colony Club the Chuck Forbes owned building with the great arched windows outside that correspond to a grand Louis XV Ballroom inside? If so, that was the building that kept getting mislabeled Century Club.

It's an awesome space.

Ditto for the Moose Lodge, a Blair McGowan owned building.
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Toolbox
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 8:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gistok,

It was Clubland prior to Club X. Those were some wild times.
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Rjlj
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 10:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Club X was awesome. Detroit had a good vibe going on at that time. They use to have Monday night movies also, at least I think it was Monday night.
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Sticks
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 10:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've seemed to notice a few bands skipping Detroit also. Not necessarily because of our proximity to Chicago, but rather our proximity to the greater Cleveland area.

About a year and a half ago, a band completely skipped Michigan for favor of a venue outside Cleveland. What made this strange was that the opening band (Thunderbirds are Now!) is actually from this area. Despite the fact, the show was great.

However, fast forward to the bands next tour about 7 months later. This time they completely skip northern and mid-Ohio. So all the kids either had to head to a Pittsburgh, Cincy, or Detroit show.

I also heard rumors that people actually like to do other things than fold their arms and pose at shows outside of Michigan..
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Rsa
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Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 9:28 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

it sure was monday nights at the movies! those were some good times. got to see pulp fiction there...

quote:

I also heard rumors that people actually like to do other things than fold their arms and pose at shows outside of Michigan..


lol sticks! actually, i think it more has to do with the economy and the times here in michigan. it seems to me that this generation of "kids" doesn't really go to shows very often, IMO. also, i think shows tend to be the first thing cut out when people are strapped for cash (i myself had to miss the VNV nation show on sunday :-( ).

but no worries; these things tend to go in cycles. it will always be detroit rock city.
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Spitty
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Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 9:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eminem in talks to buy St. Andrew's Hall

Adam Graham / Detroit News Pop Music Writer


http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.d ll/article?AID=/20070424/ENT01 /704240381/1033
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Vas
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Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 9:39 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sticks,

thats funny. I hear that. Too many fools just stand there. The worst is when they don't clap. At least clap for petes sake. I get pissed, its like they don't want it to be as good as it can be.
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Goat
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Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 9:54 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rsa, I too missed that show for lack of funds.
It seems that many tours are now done on the east coast and then a break and they move to the west coast with nothing (other than Chicago)in between.
I also believe that there are so many "flavour of the week" bands out there that the local kids can't see all of the shows that used to come here and therefore some tours might be skipping the area completely.
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Post Number: 687
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 11:02 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.d ll/article?AID=/20070424/ENT01 /704240381/1033


Some of the facts in this story are wrong. Must have been in a hurry to beat the Freep.

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