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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 715
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 03, 2007 - 1:38 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LY, I don't understand why you hate Milwaukee? I understand you not liking me, but why the city?

Do have bad memories of Milwaukee?

When was the last time you were in Milwaukee?
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2358
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Sunday, February 04, 2007 - 12:26 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have no dislike of you. Perhaps, your skin is too thin...
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 719
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 04, 2007 - 5:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Perhaps

But why don't you like Milwaukee?

I know my dad had the same feelings 5 years ago towards Milwaukee as you have today.

He said it was a boring, close-minded, run-down, and dangerous place. He never got why people would move back to Milwaukee, much less why they would want to live in the city.

But his opinions began to change very recently. The city has completely changed. More so in certain areas.

I remember the old downtown Milwaukee, nobody downtown, run-down Wisconsin Avenue. To add insult to injury, you could look down Wisconsin Avenue and see the abandoned Gimble's department store building.

At 6th and Wisconsin, abandoned Wisconsin Tower, a great art deco skyscrapper. The third ward, south of 794, was just abandoned ware houses and vagrants.

The river was filthy, roads were cracking, and a lot of store fronts were empty. I don't understand why the change, but it has happened.


Just recentely, two new 30+ story skyscrappers have been built on the lake front. 5 high rises are under construction downtown. If there is an empty building left downtown, it is either being renovated or as been bought by a Chicago developer. 4,000 people have moved back downtown. Even offices have moved downtown. Nearly all the office towers in downtown were built post 1985. There are a number of new hotels downtown.

The Ambassador Hotel, a long time flop house on Wisconsin Avenue is now a 4 star hotel. Downtown has three new supermarkets. A new public market has opened up.

I would love to see your face next time you come to downtown Milwaukee. You would probably go into a state of shock.
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Patrick
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Username: Patrick

Post Number: 3971
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, February 04, 2007 - 8:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Milwaukeeyes.com?
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 721
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 04, 2007 - 10:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe someday Patrick. I have no shortage of pictures of every part of the city.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2377
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Sunday, February 04, 2007 - 11:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Funny you mentioned the ancient Ambassador Hotel--probably the highest building downtown during the 1960s.

When about 22 years old, I worked at the Ambassador Hotel for a few nights when Channel 18 there was starting its move out to their brand new digs at 35th and Capitol Drive (in my old neighborhood). I also helped wire some of the new studios and control room. They needed some short-term help at the old place with their video switching, and I otherwise was a radio (AM/FM) chief engineer at a couple stations.

The top (very top, maybe) floor housed Channel 18, and they even had its tower there back then. It was a very run-down broadcast control room with a tiny closet-like room for an announcer sometimes and was very crowded. On one of those nights, the master control operator (a job which we all did on a rotating basis) pulled on his headphone cord, and a heavy book shelf attached to the wall came down upon his head and knocked him unconscious for a minute or so.

Because he was the only person paying attention to what was going on and following the broadcast log at the time, the other engineer and I had to rapidly figure out just how far the current program segment was as far as timing was concerned. We also had to quickly figure out which of the various projectors and tape machines carried all the ads and such. And, of course, tend to the guy who was finally recovering from his massive head clunk under all the books and junk previously stored on the ripped-off shelf, now on the equipment and the floor.

It all turned out OK, and the guy didn't want to go to the hospital afterwards, probably because he was too embarrassed by it all. And I got the ads and programming out OK while he sat out the rest of the shift.

(Message edited by LivernoisYard on February 04, 2007)
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Beavis1981
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Username: Beavis1981

Post Number: 154
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Monday, February 05, 2007 - 12:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

milwaukee

you should post a tour of downtown thread. I have quite a few pictures but do not wish to devote that much time to shrinking them to fit on this forum. I would note the town hall 1876?,the church that looks like the temple-bethel, the wisconsin statler, and the chicago-esque river scape. There is also a downtown building with gothic gargoyles top to bottom
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 723
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Monday, February 05, 2007 - 9:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm working on loading pictures to a flickr site. I'll try and post some here.

LY, what were your favorite restaurants in Milwaukee? I'm trying to think of some good places on the northside that survived the decline.

Did you ever go to Jake's on North or McBob's at Lisbon and Center?

I read your post about the Ambassador. That was a good story, although I think we have our buildings confused. The Ambassador is at 22nd and Wisconsin, near WISN. I think you mean the old Marc Plaza at 5th and Wisconsin. The Marc Plaza has a huge radio tower on top. Its a 20+ story red brick building.

I enjoy reading your stories from old Milwaukee.
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 724
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Monday, February 05, 2007 - 9:42 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's a link to the new University Club Tower:
http://www.universityclubtower .com/

Kilbourn Tower. A new 33 story glass and steel high rise.
http://www.kilbourntower.com/

Cathedral Square. A brand new 18 story glass and steel office and condominium building.
http://www.cathedralsquarecond os.com/

The Third Ward. Once a bunch of abandoned brick warehouses, now a thriving neighborhood with thousands of office workers and residents.
http://www.historicthirdward.o rg/

The Marine Terminal lofts. One of my favorite renovations.
http://www.mandelgroup.com/con dominiums/index.cfm?id=4

A list of 9 new condominium projects in downtown.
http://www.mandelgroup.com/con dos/flash.cfm

Once a 21 story abandoned building now....
http://www.wisconsintower.com/ home

The Ambassador Hotel, just west of Marquette University. Once a flop house now a 4 star luxury hotel.
http://www.ambassadormilwaukee .com/

Remember the Pabst brewery?
http://www.pabstproject.com/

Brewer's Hill, once one of the worst neighborhoods in the city now...
http://www.jsonline.com/story/ index.aspx?id=222773

1522 Prospect Avenue. A 20 story luxury condominium tower.
http://www.kbsconstruction.com /projects.php?recordid=17

The last I have time to put in is Park Lafayette. Two 20 story condominium towers on Prospect Avenue.
http://www.parklafayette.com/
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2384
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, February 05, 2007 - 2:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My bad... It was the Schroeder Hotel downtown that formerly housed Channel 18.
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 734
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Monday, February 05, 2007 - 5:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

so what were your favorite restaurants in Milwaukee?


You seem to know Madison well, where did you eat there? Dotty Dumpling's? Smokey's?
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2394
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, February 05, 2007 - 6:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm a decent cook and, as a throwback from my student days, can easily cook whatever I eat.

My next-door neighbor in Brookfield when I was a kid owned all of the George Webb's in Milwaukee and Racine back then. But I rarely ate there, although their carryout seven burgers in a bag for 98 cents were very popular.

The Mader who now runs Mader's was in my German class, so our German HS classes would eat there once a year at a cheap price. Carter's was a nice diner on one of the main drags in Brookfield way back when. I think the road was Blue Mound, but I forget.

There were some long-gone mom-and-pop restaurants in the inner city where I would never go to today. But they're all gone anyway. The pasty place at 35th and Burleigh near my school was there and still is but under a different owner. One of the mom-and-pops was in the former library kitty-corner to the pasty place.

I remember when a few 24-hour groceries opened up in Milwaukee for the first time. It was weird shopping at 3 AM then. Now, most convenience stores are open 24/7.

(Message edited by LivernoisYard on February 05, 2007)
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 748
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Posted on Wednesday, February 07, 2007 - 10:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I read your post about it being a tough job climate in Milwaukee. As you said, much like Detroit. I know thing were really tough when you lived here, and to a certain extent, they still are tough. But, there are a lot of good jobs still in Milwaukee. Maybe not too many in manufacturing, but there are plenty of white collar jobs in the city.

Firstar, Chase, Ernst and Young, Northwestern Mutual, M and I bank, several law firms, GE medical (Marquette Electronics), Marquette University, several other universities in the area (UWM, Alverno, Concordia). There are a number of good hospitals in Milwaukee. Froedert and the Medical college employ several thousand highly educated professionals. GE healthcare opened up a new research center in Wauwatosa, creating over 2,000 high paying jobs to the region. There is still plenty of hope in the city. I know I plan on coming back to Milwaukee as soon as I graduate from college. Even manufacturing is doing better.

I've been past the pasty place on Burleigh, I'm too scared to go in there, but I've heard it is a really good place.

Did you ever goto any of the old movie palaces in Milwaukee? The Oriental, The Downer, the Times, the Uptown?
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2443
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Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 1:03 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not into movies, although I have known lots of theaters that do not exist anymore. Here's a hunt for you: See if you can find out where the Comet theater was. It was in very bad shape, even in 1960. It probably closed around 1955. It probably fell down; vandals kept ruining it.

The Oriental was in an early phase of being demoed when the workers pulled off the wood paneling and discovered all the art work underneath. So it got saved. That must have been just around 1970 or a few years earlier.

Hippies went there and to the Suburpia next door. There was a store (deli?) on North Avenue on the side of the theater whose owner wouldn't serve any hippy who wore a beard or wore sandals...

The movie palace on Hopkins was taken over during the 1950s by the first of the quack religious faith healers in town--Reverend Valdez. He bought time on one of the TV channels and told his people that he wouldn't accept any metal donations. They had to be green in color. This was when a dollar spent about 8 to 10 times as much as today.

Hank Aaron lived on 39th and Hope in a tiny steel house--one of the very few ever made. We played about ten games of hardball baseball a week at the big property back of Aaron's place (before it became a middle school) until I moved during the eighth grade to Brookfield. Most of the 22 boys in my class were jocks--baseball or tackle football--all without any parental supervision, ever. They knew where we played, but they never came. We pretty much did what we pleased after school until 5:30 every day.

Today's kids are sissies and wimps in comparison. But those were days when people did things on their own without government and such. Once we were about six or seven years old, we would keep moving further and further from home until we literally were a couple miles away pretty much on a daily basis, challenging other groups of boys to play ball and what not.

Some of those neighborhoods were starting to get rough in the mid 1950s, but we didn't seem to notice at the time. We might go right into ground zero of the inner city or beyond to play ball, and we usually won.
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Milwaukee
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Post Number: 752
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Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 1:11 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Comet Theater at 33rd and North. I've heard of that before. It no longer exists, it was demolished in the 70's I believe.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2446
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Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 1:41 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought it was 34th. There was another theater in the same or the next block. It was a mess with busted windows and damage.
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Milwaukee
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Post Number: 753
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Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 11:50 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was wrong, it was demolished in the late 60's. That whole area was bought up for freeway expansion. There was supposed to be an expressway from downtown Milwaukee that would cut northwest and meet up with I-45.

That area is still the best place to see urban prarie in Milwaukee. There has been some development. A couple manufacturing companies have opened up in new buildings on the land. The city and some banks funded some low income housing. They look pretty nice.

I'm really glad that they stop tearing stuff down for the freeway. There were plans to cut right across Grant and Sherman. Both of those are great blocks in my opinion.

The area between Washington Park and Sherman Park is beautiful. That is probably the saddest part of Milwaukee. Once a rich neighborhood, the heart of the jewish community. Today, mostly black (not rich blacks). The homes are still great, although Washington High School is a complete loss.

Do you remember the area?
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2451
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Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 1:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I lived less than a block from Sherman Boulevard. Grant (42nd) Street properties lost about 90% of their value due to the expressway clearing that never came and the crack cocaine industry.

My grandparents owned about two blocks or so of 42nd Street north of Capitol Drive until the 1930s when they traded it to a Milwaukee dentist for 12 acres in semi-tropical Rio Hondo Texas (near Brownsville) in the early/mid 1930s.

So, my grandfolks left Milwaukee but still owned remnants of their truck farm until 1969.

The first welfare project in Wisconsin was on Sherman Boulevard & Hope (1930s). Eight whole blocks and all.
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 755
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Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 1:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That really is to bad. I love the homes on Sherman, especially south of Center street. I love that Washington statue at Lisbon and Sherman. Washington Park has become a priority renovation today.

Washington still is pretty dangerous, but its getting better. More police, the bandshell was renovated, statues cleaned. I still wouldn't walk around there even during the day. I think the neighborhood just east of the park is probably the worst in the city.

East of 42nd and north of Vliet. It has some great old homes, but that is probably the heart of the war zone. I've only had one problem in all the time spent driving around the north side. I was with my friend looking at some old buildings in the area so we went down some side street, 37th and Walnut possibly. I was turing the corner and in the middle of the day a guy just ran right to the driver side door and tried to punch in my window. Three other thugs tried to open up the back of the car. We sped the hell out of there.

That left a bad taste in my mouth, I'm still pretty mad about that.

Borchert field was pretty close to where you said your first house was, (8th and Burleigh) correct? Did you ever go to any games there, or was it gone by that time?
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Milwaukee
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Post Number: 756
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Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 1:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Borchert had a strange design, it was a big rectangle. The Packers used to play games there, along with the Brewers. It actually was bordered by Burleigh, Chambers, 7th, and 8th.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2455
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Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 2:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Small world. The webmaster and creator of a web site dealing with baseball parks throughout its history had posted a picture stating that the Sunday blue-law alternative ball park for the very early years of the Tigers near where I now live. [The former owner of my property here was the Wayne County Sheriff and sole owner of the 1901 Tigers.] However, that photo was over a block away on the other (wrong) side of the tracks. So, I wrote to him about this, and he made some changes, although he never changed the picture due to his living a thousand miles away.

I asked him if he had anything on Borchert Field because at that time I believed I was born a few blocks away. Some time later, he mailed me copies of two pictures taken from either the very late 1940s or early 1950s. One picture showed only two nearby houses, and they were midway between 8th and 9th Streets on Burleigh. One of those two houses was the very same house where my parents lived when I was born!

Well, I lived a helluvalot closer than I thought (1/2 block away). My house was somewhat along the left field foul line but within fair territory. My father could watch the games from home if he cared to and follow the action on radio. Alas, that house was visible on GoogleEarth or TerraServer a few years ago but is no longer there.

BTW, at about that time, baseball commissioner Bud Selig and his former next-door neighbor Senator Kohl as kids both lived somewhere near there, perhaps near Ring Street, according to what I read. Later, during the 1950s or earlier, when they were then fraternity roommates at UW, their parents had moved, and they still lived next door to each other and were also on my newspaper route (52nd Street?).

(Message edited by LivernoisYard on February 08, 2007)
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Milwaukee
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Post Number: 758
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Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 3:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It would be nice if Borchert was still around. It was flattened for freeway construction in the 60's. A lot of good stuff went down for the freeways.

West Wisconsin Avenue is also a great avenue of lost mansions. Most went down in the 60's for apartment towers or had ugly storefronts put on them. There are still a few old mansions left, the Pabst is the only one that has been renovated. Highland Avenue used to be lined with great old mansions, now only the ones west of 27th survive.

Do you have any memories of downtown Milwaukee? It must have been pretty dull for a city that large. Most of the high rise buildings downtown were built post 1980. Did you ever take the old streetcars? I really wish they hadn't gotten rid of them.
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Milwaukee
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Post Number: 759
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Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 3:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Do you remember the Pabst Building at Water and Wisconsin or the Northwestern Railway Depot? Those are probably the worst loses for Milwaukee in the architecture department. I cannot believe somebody will allow them to be torn down. Both are beautiful buildings.

There was another train station downtown. It was west of the river, north of the current Amtrak station. The Milwaukee road used to stop there. Another beautiful station lost. Do you remember the name of it? I have a poster of it in my room.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2456
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Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 3:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I sometimes rode the 13 route streetcar on Wells Street when hitchhiking home from MUHS. I also rode it that final day in 1958. I also rode the streetcar from Oakland and Capitol Drive to the Boys Club by Brady and Franklin. Later, I lived right next door to the barnyard in Shorewood/Milwaukee where the streetcars and the trackless trolleys were stored until they got rid of them.

When I lived at Park and Murray, the streetcar used to come right by there. But I was an adult by that time and the streetcars were long gone. Back then, the managing editor of the underground newspaper--The Kaleidoscope--was my next-door neighbor during the riot days.
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Milwaukee
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Post Number: 760
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Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 4:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

42nd and Capitol is just a few blocks from Tower Automotive (A.O. Smith). That's probably the most Detroitesque area in the city. Tower has closed the factory but left the management in the city I believe. Most of the plant is still intact. The city has moved the DPW up there to fill the vacant land. They're selling lots off, but there have been few buyers. I think there are some tax offices (ie. HR block) and a McDonalds. Those small businesses can't fill the thousands of jobs lost. Tower is a great place to take pictures, those abandoned warehouses are beautiful at sunset. Great brick and steel buildings.

Do you have any memories of the Pabst Building at Water and Wisconsin or the Northwestern Railway Depot? Any memories of downtown?
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2463
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Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 5:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My parochial school was the closest school from AO Smith (two blocks away) back when it was considered Milwaukess's #1 nuclear bomb target during the Cold War. AO Smith was the leading frame maker (chassis) in the world ever since Ford bought them made there since for the Model N back around 1906.

For the world wars AO Smith made most of the bomb casings. I had another uncle who spent his entire welding career working there. They probably built the casings for the dropped A bombs there.

The downtown sucked even though I went there as a kid. I joined the Turners (gymnastics) downtown when around eleven years old and worked out there until late night every Thursday. No kid can do that type of late (10PM) bus trip returning home alone at night anymore.
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Milwaukee
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Post Number: 763
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Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 5:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You definately can't take the bus at night anymore. That's just a sad fact for people who don't want to get their ass kicked.

I really want Milwaukeans to take back the core of the city from the thugs. I am sick and tired of the north side being a joke. I want to be part of the class that takes back this great city. It will happen some day.

Do you remember the Menomonee Valley? The valley has lost almost all of its great old factories. Potawatomi Bingo and Casino opened up in the valley. The city has demolished just about everything in the valley. They're building a Harley Museum and there are a number of new warehouses and small office buildings being built today. Between Miller Park and the 35th street viaduct they demolished a factory but saved the smoke stacks, the land is becoming a park. I feel sad that almost all the old industry is gone in the valley, but the city needs to adapt to the times.
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Livernoisyard
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Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 5:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My father once thought about renting some factory space in the Valley before he bought fifteen acres just outside Sussex on Hwy. 74. Looked out the windows at MUHS before they built the addition, you could see two huge coal gas towers in the valley used for making methane from burning coal for coke. However, as the months went on, those towers got smaller and smaller until they were gone.

Even the ancient coke gas tower at the old Ford Rouge plant was taken down very recently at the corner of Miller and Dix.
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Milwaukee
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Post Number: 764
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Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 5:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That was a better decision to buy out in Sussex. I want business to stay in Milwaukee, but I'm guessing the land was cheaper and cleaner.

Allis Chalmers closed in the late 80's. Was that still a big employer when you lived here? The factory has actually been salvaged and is being developed into a high tech office park. They made turned the first level into a shopping mall in the early 90's.

Did you ever go to Schusters on north 3rd street? Do you remember that 3rd street business district during its heyday?

3rd and North was where the Milwaukee riots took place. That area quickly fell apart after that. Today it has gotten much nicer, due to expanding renovations.
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Livernoisyard
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Post Number: 2466
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Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 6:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Back in 1967, Schuster's was probably already Gimbel's, and they too probably closed 3rd Street by that time. When I was an undergrad TA at UW-M, a Schuster was in my class. As an adult, I never shopped Third--it was already dead.

I remember talking to one of the final five employees of Allis-Chalmers back in the middle/late 1980s. He was 52 years old (I remembered that) and his only job was to run the office--a couple rooms in some old, run-down part of the once massive plant. He was told to transfer all phone calls and such to the new owner--Deutz in Germany. BTW, he was the vice president. The other three jobs besides his secretary were probably a janitor and such.

Weeds and trees had already broken through the concrete in the parking lots in most of those abandoned factories in West Allis twenty years ago.
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Milwaukee
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Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 7:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

West Allis has only recently begun to try and revitalize itself. There are still several abandoned factories. I've never really liked West Allis. It is getting nicer in some ways but by doing so they are destroying what little character there once was. West Allis is definately a rust belt city.

Racine is probably doing the worst of all the cities in Wisconsin. They have a pretty substantial crime problem. There are a number of abandoned plants in Racine. The downtown has cleaned up recently, but the distance between I-94 and downtown has really hurt the city.

Did you ever go down to Racine or to the south side of Milwaukee?
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Livernoisyard
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Post Number: 2471
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Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 7:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Racine was highly Hispanic for eons--like Waukesha--with high crime. I am not a Sout' Siter.
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Milwaukee
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Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 7:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know the south side of Racine is very hispanic. The north side is very black. Much like Milwaukee. Did you ever go to the North Shore suburbs or do you know the western suburbs better?
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Livernoisyard
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Post Number: 2472
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Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 7:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

City and west side. But remember, I lived in Madison or rural Madison for 27 years.
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Milwaukee
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Post Number: 769
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Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 7:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't know Madison nearly as well as Milwaukee, but I'd still like to talk to you about it. When were you last in Madison? Madison is a very pretty capital city. I'm happy Wisconsin can claim it as its own. What are your feelings on Madison? I know you like it more than Milwaukee. The two are certainly different.
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Livernoisyard
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Post Number: 2474
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Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 7:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There's isn't much interplay between Madison or Milwaukee. Most of the AM or FM radio stations of one cannot be heard in the other. They're further apart than Detroit from Toledo and, possibly, Jackson. But Detroiters don't care much at all about them--even Ann Arbor.

(Message edited by livernoisyard on February 08, 2007)
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Milwaukee
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Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 8:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think Milwaukeans and Madisonians are getting along better. We're beginning to realize that we need to work together for the better of the state. Madison has a very strong economy and is growing at an amazing rate. I see more and more new stuff everytime I visit. I'm warming up to Madison. I used to think of it as a boring cowtown but that image is quickly fading. State Street is much like Water street and Brady street in Milwaukee combined. There are some great brewpubs and restaurants. Downtown Madison has become very nice.

It's beginning to feel like a big city. In the future I believe that some sort of commuter rail will be built between the two cities. The counties between Milwaukee and Madison are seeing extrodinary growth. I hope it continues into the future.

Metra is planning to expand to Milwaukee and has secured federal and state money to do so. Maybe in 30 years Metra will go to Madison too.
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Livernoisyard
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Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 9:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's not a question of getting along as much as the two cities have little in common and have little to do with the other. Hell, they just as well could be in two different states as far as their interacting is concerned.

But Milwaukee is indeed like Detroit in that it too is a hollow core as far as most of metro Milwaukee is concerned. Buildings downtown mean little in both cities as far as the typical resident cares. I myself almost never go into downtown just to go there. The only reason for me would be to transfer to another bus route if I happen to ride a bus somewhere.

But there is one area whereby the fiscal conservatives in Milwaukee suburbs and neighboring counties (mostly conservatives, BTW) do not like Madison, and that revolves around the high rate of Wisconsin taxation coming out of Madison--where the legislature is. Madison gets the blame and rightly so, in part, because it receives a huge benefit in that it lives off the taxes from the other 71 counties.

Both Madison and Janesville consider themselves more in Chicago's economy than in Milwaukee's.

(Message edited by livernoisyard on February 09, 2007)
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Milwaukee
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Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 10:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is a really long post, but I think you should read the whole thing and see if you agree or disagree.

"But Milwaukee is indeed like Detroit in that it too is a hollow core as far as most of metro Milwaukee is concerned."

I'm going to have to disagree with that. Milwaukee has a large influx of workers come downtown every morning and leaving at night. Downtown Milwaukee is the heart of commerce in Wisconsin. As blown out as parts of Milwaukee are, downtown Milwaukee is still the center of commerce and culture in Wisconsin.

There are several large business zones in the state. Many around and in Madison, Brookfield, and Wauwatosa, but downtown Milwaukee still has the most consentrated number of businesses in the state.

Downtown Milwaukee has lost ground to these other places in the last 50 years, but downtown is feeling business growth once again.


"Hell, they just as well come be in two different states as far as their interacting is concerned."

I couldn't agree more. Milwaukee is far different than just about every part of Wisconsin. Milwaukee has far more blight than everywhere else in the state. Milwaukee is really the only city in the state to have developed with industry.

The development of industry has also helped Milwaukee. Metro Milwaukee is 4 times as large as the 2nd largest metro area in the state (Madison).

"Both Madison and Janesville consider themselves more in Chicago's economy than in Milwaukee's"

I've actually heard the complete opposite from most Wisconsinites. Many believe that Janesville and Madison are true Wisconsin cities where as Milwaukee is really more a part of Chicagoland. Milwaukee really is more like Chicago than Madison is. Milwaukee has the old rust belt industry much like Chicago, but it also has the large number of white collar jobs. Madison really doesn't have the heavy industry that Milwaukee or Chicago have or once had.

Milwaukee and Madison are beginning to look more alike.

Madison has discovered that with growth comes problems. Madison has its bad areas, not nearly as bad as Milwaukee's but none the less bad. The east side of Madison has some tough neighborhoods. Madison is beginning to see the problem of congestion and pollution. These things plagued Milwaukee in the 60's and still do. Milwaukee should act like a big brother and teach them what they know about how to become a big city.

Milwaukee is developing its own high tech industry and has a fast growing health care sector. Madison is helping Milwaukee along with setting up its own high tech sector. Many small businesses have grown from Madison and opened up in Milwaukee.

Although Madison occasionally helps Milwaukee, hope for Milwaukee is really from the growing monster (good monster) that is Chicago. Kenosha County has seen great benefits from Chicago.

Most new developments in Milwaukee are being done by Chicago firms. North Shore Chicagoans are using Mitchell International more and more as O'Hare continues to be a hellish backlog of flights. Chicagoans can find low home prices in Milwaukee and Wisconsin compared to those they can find in Chicago.

In 2009 the state is planning on expanding I-94 between Milwaukee's Mitchell International exit and the state line to 4 lanes each way. Metra has announced plans to build a line to Milwaukee and the southern suburbs of Milwaukee. I know that I-94 was expanded to 4 lanes up to Gurnee and construction is to begin soon on expanding the freeway to 4 lanes up to the state line.

Although I like Madison, the hope for Milwaukee does not come from there but rather from Chicago.
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Hysteria
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Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 10:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am enjoying this!

:-)
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Milwaukee
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Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 11:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Its been a really fun discussion.

Hysteria, South Bend is about as far away from Chicago as Milwaukee is. What are your thoughts on Chicagoland?

You live in South Bend right?
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Hysteria
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Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 11:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yessir. I love Chicago, yet the Detroit story is much, much more fascinating to me and always keeps me coming back to the city.

There's an inter-urban electric train here in SB that travels to downtown Chicago and the south shore suburbs so I get to go to Chicago much more often than Detroit.

My thoughts on Chicagoland are probably the same as yours, Milwaukee. The city is amazing - restaurants, shops, high-rise condos, etc. The people of different races there actually get along!!!

Chicago is a world class city, as Detroit once was, but the leadership in Chicago was much stronger during the tough times. Most of the productive class moved out of Detroit when the leadership soured and the neighborhoods burned and deteriorated.

:-)

(Message edited by hysteria on February 09, 2007)
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Livernoisyard
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Posted on Thursday, February 08, 2007 - 11:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

People from Chicago's north-side suburbs prefer to fly out of Milwaukee than O'Hare. The driving is almost the same and it's sometimes cheaper. And Midwest Express, headquartered in Milwaukee, has the widest seats of all airlines and used to serve shrimp on most flights. [In the mid 1980s, I knew the son of the maintenance chief at KC Aviation (Kimberley-Clark's own airline and originator of Midwest Express). I'm still a private pilot and have an FAA A&P certificate and am legal (so-to-say) to work on any aircraft as a mechanic, although I don't do that. A technical editor pays pretty well hourly, so that's mostly what I do now.]

I really don't care to get into "my high school is better than your high school" kind of debate. Madison's low unemployment rate has been the national leader for much of the past two decades, usually around 3% or lower. Madison was one of the last cities to be ranked #1 on the Forbes top 300 cities until they broke up that rating into three separate groups based on population. Milwaukee never ranked high on it, and Janesville-Beloit and Rockford IL usually fought it out for being #300 (dead last) until finally some "worser" cities made the charts.

I rented a farmhouse for $150/month in rural Magnolia on a 172-acre farm for 14 years about 20 miles west of Janesville during the 1970s and 1980s. Then I rented a larger farmhouse on a 150-acre farm about four miles south of Madison for $300/month during the 1990s. I could (and did) hunt deer and other game in my back yard and my nearest neighbor was about 1/5 mile away on one side and about 3/4 mile away on the other side. So, I could go in the city to work and play but not necessarily have to live there.

That's why I almost laugh at people, especially on DY, who think that if you don't live in or very near a major city, you live in the "backwoods"--according to some), cannot do much of anything, or amount to much (you're too stupid or ignorant?). Those are the really short-minded and the most provincial of the lot. Myself, I can live in the city or elsewhere and see their advantages or not. I lived dozens of miles from any public transit and never cared about that.

Hint: You don't have to live in or near a city in order to find work. I'm lucky in that I telecommute for employment via my Comcast broadband connection. Right now I essentially work in DC but live in SW Detroit. The previous year, I worked for Motorola's embedded-microprocessor semiconductor division in Austin TX, doing pretty much the same technical editing I'm doing now.

I could work just about anywhere if I can connect to the Internet (even a slow dial-up would work for me). Otherwise, I would have to move unless I chose to work in Detroit for, maybe two-thirds as much per hour, if I were lucky to even find work here. Milwaukee's pretty much the same as far as professionals are concerned. Most large companies are tending to go totally to temporaries for workers and utilize thousands of others in foreign countries. Don't be too surprised if you don't get the job you want in Milwaukee when you get out of school, unless you know somebody.

(Message edited by livernoisyard on February 09, 2007)
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Milwaukee
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Posted on Friday, February 09, 2007 - 12:33 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Interesting story Hysteria. You're lucky in terms of transport to Chicago. I've never been on the south shore train, but I'm sure you get some great views of Gary and Hammond. The line runs along I-90 in Gary right?

The Dan Ryan construction kind of hurts my ability to ever visit northern Indiana. Yes, I like to visit northern Indiana (Hammond especially).

I love Chicago also. I love having a world class city just an hour away. Great restaurants and well... just great everything in Chicago. I'm excited to live during this great time for Chicago and Milwaukee. I'm excited for the future.

"Don't be too surprised if you don't get the job you want in Milwaukee when you get out of school, unless you know somebody."

I have thought about how to work this. I'm interested in architecture. There are a number of good firms in Milwaukee but I'll have to see what the climate for getting a job is like in 6 or 7 years. If I don't find something in Milwaukee, then I'll look in Chicago or Madison. If I can't find a job in either of those cities, well... then I must not be a qualified candidate.

My best friend moved from Wisconsin to Washington D.C (Virginia suburbs). His dad found a much better job in Vienna, Virginia. He moved to Virginia and I was very sad. His dad lost the tech job within three months. They packed their bags and came back to Milwaukee. He found a job in Chicago and now commutes from Milwaukee.

I love that story, its one of hope in my opinion. Out in Washington there are several thousand skilled workers masons, carpenters, etc... building nice homes. They're making a shit load of money out in Virginia. I know a lot of them plan on saving money on the coasts and coming back to good old Wisconsin.

People leave Wisconsin after college and realize what shithole's Texas and California are and by their 30's they come back to Wisconsin to raise their families.

Wisconsin's a great state, with a great future. I'm excited to see the progress that will occur in my lifetime. I plan on being a part of the fun.
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Livernoisyard
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Posted on Friday, February 09, 2007 - 1:23 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

California is becoming bad because of its ubiquitous Hispanic and some Asian gang problems. Even Silicon Valley's business has been offshored as of late. So, expect California's exodus of the middle class to get out in time, in evidence for the past few years, to continue. Texas isn't so bad, though, but some of the same gang violence could change that.
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Milwaukee
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Posted on Friday, February 09, 2007 - 11:38 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My mom was one of the first Californians to come to Wisconsin. She had never been here before, she came for college. She saw what was coming in California. She was smart to leave when she did.

My dad has been to Texas a number of times, he has never said anything bad about it. I guess there is a lot of appeal in Texas. Lots of jobs and nice places to live. Maybe a fun place to visit but I would never live there or in the south.

Why do you live in Detroit? You seem like a guy who likes the country a lot more.
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Livernoisyard
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Posted on Friday, February 09, 2007 - 11:49 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mother lives in a burb and other relatives live here. Most of my Milwaukee relatives and friends left Wisconsin--many, a long time ago.

They probably saw what was coming to Milwakee the same things your mother saw happening in California. And the worker-wannabes got jobs that their engineering degrees and such couldn't land any stable employment in a dying Rust Belt Milwaukee.
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Milwaukee
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Posted on Friday, February 09, 2007 - 6:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"dying Rust Belt Milwaukee" :-(

Ly, you're a smart guy. You seem to know a ton about old Milwaukee. But I can't tell you how wrong you are about most of the city today. Yes, the north side is in a bad state. I can't disagree with you about that. But if you just saw all of the great things that have happened, I know you would have a change in heart.

Downtown Milwaukee is nothing like downtown Detroit. No offense to Detroit but all I saw on a Saturday night was bus traffic and the occasional vagrant. There were a few good projects, but really still pretty dead.

You can look at all the stat sheets you want, but that won't tell you the whole story. Milwaukee got a punch in the stomach in the 60's and 70's but its getting up and wiping off the wounds. Looking at 1960's Milwaukee and the Milwaukee of today is like looking at night and day. It is so so so different.

We aren't growing like Arizona but thats a good thing. Wisconsin and Milwaukee are growing at their own pace. Milwaukee is losing population, but income is growing for the first time in a long time. I'm sure there weren't that many places in downtown in the 70's where you could find a 14 dollar Kobe beef burger or a 6 million dollar penthouse. I don't think you would see nightclubs, steakhouses, bookstores, or lofts in 1970's Milwaukee.

I beg you, come back for two nights and see the difference! You will not be disappointed! :-)
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Hysteria
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Posted on Friday, February 09, 2007 - 11:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Milwaukee, what ever happened to the Grand Avenue Mall where Marshall Field's used to be downtown? Is it still there?
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Milwaukee
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Posted on Friday, February 09, 2007 - 11:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Grand Avenue Mall was part of a redevelopment plan from the early to mid 80's. The mall almost closed in the 90's. Marshall Fields moved out to Wauwatosa (a nice suburb).

In 2005 a new interest was taken in it. The old Marshall Fields became a Borders and a Marriott Hotel. ASQ some type of accounting firm moved into the other half of the old building. A Tjmaxx, Marshall's, and Childrens place have just opened up. There are several store going in right now actually.

The problem was in the 80's, nobody lived downtown. Today there is a serious need for more stores downtown so Grand Avenue has seen a boom in business.
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Milwaukee
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Posted on Friday, February 09, 2007 - 11:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The rebirth included the renovation of the old Marshall fields into the Marriott and the Borders. The federal building has been leased out to some private firms. A Capital Grille opened up on the first floor of the Federal Building. Right across from the Federal building is the new convention center.

Two buildings on the campus were converted into lofts. The Majestic Lofts a 14 story terra cotta building and the Boston Lofts an 8 story terra cotta building. The Majestic lofts look great at night.
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Hysteria
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Posted on Friday, February 09, 2007 - 11:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Was the Marshall Field's at Grand Avenue in a historic building (once something else) or was it built when the mall was built?

I remember reading about it and it sounded quite large.
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Milwaukee
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Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 12:01 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Grand Avenue is a collection of old buildings that were rehabbed. Marshall Fields was probably built in the 20's. It is a huge building. Having it occupied and so well renovated has been great for downtown.

The oldest building was built in the 1890's the newest was built in the 20's. One building recieved a terrible face lift in the 60's. That building was abandoned in the 80's. It was renovated this summer with a nice new facade. It's now the headquarters of OnMilwaukee.com.
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Milwaukee
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Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 12:04 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's a link to the mall.

http://www.grandavenueshops.co m/

If you have any more questions about Milwaukee, I would be happy to answer them to the best of my ability.
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Hysteria
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Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 12:11 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Marshall Fields was probably built in the 20's.



But it wasn't built as Marshall Field's was it?
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Milwaukee
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Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 12:37 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It used to be a Gimble's, then it closed and reopened as a Marshall Fields. That closed and was abandoned. Now it is a Borders and a Marriott.
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Milwaukee
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Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 10:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you're interested, I'm planning on showing off pictures of Milwaukee on the site tomorrow.

They're mostly of downtown and the east side. Do you want me to add some ones from the north side?

I'd post them tonight but I don't have high speed at home.
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Hysteria
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Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 10:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

If you're interested, I'm planning on showing off pictures of Milwaukee on the site tomorrow.



LY, whaddya think?
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Milwaukee
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Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 10:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Get pumped Hysteria!

Have you been to Milwaukee?
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Livernoisyard
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Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 10:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm not big into buildings. Practically all the places where I or my relatives once lived in totally safe neighborhoods have all changed. The 30th Street Industrial Corridor is just some land with many of its railroad tracks pulled. My parochial school now is a part of the totally dysfunctional Milwaukee Public School system--another DPS. Its parish--one of eleven to be combined into two in its inner core--had closed a few years back.

Urban Renewal during the 1960s destroyed entire neighborhoods which enabled Milwaukee's decay of today. Detroit had some of that too. So, again, what's for me to look forward to?
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Milwaukee
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Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 10:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LOTS! :-)

Really, I think you'll be surprised!
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Hysteria
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Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 11:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Show us!
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Milwaukee
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Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 11:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Expect them sometime tomorrow 10 AM Eastern time!
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Livernoisyard
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Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 9:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is the ugly side of Milwaukee which photos of buildings do not adequately portray:
Teen 'sport killings' of homeless on the rise

POSTED: 7:55 p.m. EST, February 20, 2007

Story Highlights
• Number of attacks on homeless at highest level in almost a decade
• 122 attacks, 20 murders in 2006, according to National Coalition for the Homeless
• For some teens, "this passes as amusement," expert says

By Ashley Fantz
CNN

MILWAUKEE, Wisconsin (CNN) -- All Nathan Moore says he wanted to do was smoke pot and get drunk with his friends.

Killing Rex Baum was never part of the plan that day in 2004.

"It all started off as a game," Moore said.

The 15-year-old and his friends were taunting the homeless man -- throwing sticks and leaves -- after having a couple of beers with him.

No big deal, Moore says, but he's sorry for what came next.

It was a mistake, he said, a sudden primal surge that made him and his friends Luis Oyola, 16, and 17-year-old Andrew Ihrcke begin punching and kicking Baum.

"Luis says 'I'm gonna go hit him,' We're all laughing, thought he was joking around,'" but he wasn't, Moore concedes. "We just all started hitting him."

They hurled anything they could find -- rocks, bricks, even Baum's barbecue grill -- and pounded the 49-year-old with a pipe and with the baseball bat he kept at his campsite for protection.

Ihrcke smeared his own feces on Baum's face before cutting him with a knife "to see if he was alive," Moore said.

After destroying Baum's camp, the boys left the homeless man -- head wedged in his own grill -- under a piece of plastic where they hoped the "animals would eat" him.

Then, Moore says, they took off to grab a bite at McDonald's.

Baum's murder was indicative of a disturbing trend.

A National Coalition for the Homeless report says last year, there were 122 attacks and 20 murders against the homeless, the most attacks in nearly a decade. (Coalition report on 2006 homeless attacks)

Police found Baum's body two days after the teens attacked him.

They bragged about it around town. Police picked them up and they described what happened.

Ihrcke told police that killing "the bum" reminded him of playing a violent video game, a police report shows.

All three teens pleaded no contest to first degree reckless homicide charges and went to prison.

Moore recently turned 18 at Columbia Correctional Institution in Portage, Wisconsin, where he is serving a 15 year sentence.

"When [the beating] stops, you say, 'What did we just do?'" he told CNN. "There's no rational explanation."

Teenage 'amusement'

"It's disturbing to know that young people would literally kick someone when they're already down on their luck," said Michael Stoops, the executive director of the Washington-based National Coalition for the Homeless. "We recognize that this isn't every teenager, but for some this passes as amusement."

Criminologists call these wilding sprees "sport killing," -- largely middle-class teens, with no criminal records, assaulting the homeless with bats, golf clubs, paintball guns.

Some teens have even taped themselves in the act. Others have said they were inspired by "Bumfights," a video series created in 2002 and sold on the Web that features homeless people pummeling each other for the promise of a few bucks.

A segment called "Bum Hunter," hosted by a Crocodile Hunter-like actor wearing a safari outfit, shows him "tagging" homeless people by pouncing on them and binding their wrists.

The distributors of "Bumfights" have claimed they've sold hundreds of thousands of copies.

But the company has had to deal with a couple of legal issues unrelated to the Baum case.

Last year, three former homeless stars of "Bumfights" won a civil suit against filmmakers. Santa Monica attorney Mark Quigley, who represented Rufus Hannah, known as "Rufus the Stunt Bum" to series' fans, said he is unable to disclose the amount of the settlement.

Also, in July 2006, a California judge ordered "Bumfights'" producers Ryan McPherson and Zachary Bubeck to spend 180 days in jail for failing to perform community service related to guilty pleas they previously entered to charges of staging illegal street fights.

"Bumfights" directors did not answer CNN's request for an interview.

Attacks across the nation

Incidents of teen-on-homeless violence dotted the map last year. Florida racked up at least six such attacks in 2006. (Homeless attack across U.S.)

In Lauderhill, four teens were arrested after they allegedly videotaped themselves beating, dragging, and stealing from a homeless man.

The victim has not been found, but the four face one charge each of strong-armed robbery.

Earlier this month, teens in Corpus Christi, Texas, videotaped themselves attacking a homeless man.

Commander David Torres said police arrested a 15-year-old and are looking for at least one more teenager and a 22-year-old who described on tape what they were about to do before they jumped on the man. (Read full story)

On the other side of the nation, former Oregon State University student Joshua Grimes stands accused of shooting and injuring a homeless man from his perch in a fraternity house window.

He has not yet entered a plea, but, according to a police report, he cried to detectives after the October shooting, telling them, "I didn't mean to shoot him."

At least three homeless people in Kalamazoo, Michigan, reported being attacked by teens on bicycles during a 10-day span in October, according to the homeless coalition.

In Huntsville, Alabama, six teens -- one of them 13 -- beat a homeless man with golf clubs, the coalition reported. But perhaps the most shocking of these examples was 2006's first recorded case of teen-on-homeless violence.

On January 12 in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, a surveillance camera captured two teens beating a homeless man with bats.

Prosecutors say 17-year-old skateboarder Tom Daugherty, 18-year-old Brian Hooks, a popular hockey team captain, and a third unseen teen, Billy Ammons, a high school dropout, assaulted two more homeless men that night.

One of them was 45-year-old Norris Gaynor. A witness, Anthony Clarke, told police and CNN last year that he saw the three teens approach Gaynor as he slept on a park bench. Daugherty began whacking Gaynor with a bat, Clarke said. (Watch two teenagers beat a cowering homeless man with bats Video)

As Gaynor lay dying, Ammons shot him with yellow paintballs, later remarking that the beating felt like "teeing off," police said.

Gaynor was beaten so badly his own father didn't recognize him. Facing life in prison, the teens face trial for murder later this year. They have each pleaded not guilty to one count of first-degree murder and two counts of attempted murder. (Read full story)

Lingering questions

Stoops and Brian Levin, a California State University hate crimes expert, say common themes run through teen-on-homeless violence. The attackers are almost always boys, peer pressure and mob mentality sweep away caution, and parents don't suspect their children could be capable of such actions.

Laura Simpson didn't. Her son, Justin Brumfield, is serving an 11-year prison stretch in California.

In August 2005, Brumfield and William Orantes, both 19, beat 56-year-old Ernest Adams with bats. Adams emerged from a coma three weeks later with dents in his skull, permanent scars and no vision in one eye, the Los Angeles Times reported. Orantes is serving a three-year sentence.

Simpson, a sixth-grade teacher, says she is still tormented by her son's actions and wonders if her son's irritability was more than typical teenage moodiness.

She has other questions: Was her son, a natural follower, just succumbing to peer pressure? Was he that into "Bumfights"? Did he see the fear in Adams' eyes when he raised the bat to strike him?

In a sad irony, she had adopted him; his mother was a homeless drug addict, a revelation he had learned not long before the beating and which his attorney used to explain his rage.

Her son has told her he is sorry for what happened, but her questions remain unanswered.

"As a parent, of course you're going to question yourself," she said. "It was just hard to comprehend. The first thing was, 'Not Justin. There has to be a mistake,'" she said. "You think you know everything that's going on and you don't."

When the mob mentality takes over, even the perpetrators may not comprehend what's going on.

Back at the prison in Wisconsin, Nathan Moore seems baffled by his own actions. Killing Rex Baum now registers like a "blur" or "dream," he says.

Moore and his friends knew Baum from around town. Life had been painful for the homeless man from the start; alcohol eased it. As a kid growing up in Milwaukee, when his home life became too rocky, a neighboring family took him in. He drifted through school and a brief stint in the military, his friends say, a wanderer, a loner.

Homeless for years, he defied Wisconsin winters by constantly walking around the city, bundled in a coat patched with duct tape. For a few dollars, he pumped gas, shoveled snow off driveways, and walked neighborhood dogs.

More than 100 people came to Baum's funeral. Someone sent a newspaper clip of the story to Moore in prison.

"Every day I wish I could take it back," he said. "I seen [the] repercussions among everyone. I didn't think about any of this when [the beating] was going on.
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 828
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 10:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LY, send me an email if you'd like. I had trouble posting photos on here, but I've figured it out for email. If you want...

oneill_john@muhs.edu

I can't try forever. I do know that I've gotten several people interested in Milwaukee though. This feels like Green Eggs and Ham. You hate it, you hate it, you hate it, you finally try it, you love it!

(Message edited by milwaukee on February 20, 2007)
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2596
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 11:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My Milwaukee is not there any longer. I have no resentment, though. You still have your Whitefish Bay North Shore suburb intact--for now. And it might stay that way for some time. But my Milwaukee holds little interest for me.

A dozen square mile area where I once lived, played, went to school, had my paper route, shopped, etc. is gone. The houses are mostly there, but in rotten shape for many of them due to the people who lived there. Some writers/reporters have referred to that large area several times as a "No-man's land" of crime. But it's actually even larger now than a dozen square miles and is not getting smaller. And it won't turn itself around for decades, I'll wager.

The posh Brookfield where I went to high school is still there and probably doing very well. But I preferred the city then and now. But it's not the same--the people moved on or out, friends did the same, but there's no real communities in the city now. I can speak for many of them when I say, I don't really care. It's all memories. Those who "stayed" live in the burbs or commute.

In that respect, it's like that for many thousands of Detroiters who no longer have their Detroit either. And for the very same reasons.

Why not be a tour guide and take all the DYers along? You yourself know it's very dangerous to even ride a city bus there. Things that I did all the time alone as a pre-teenager, at night. The area around your high school was still a high-rent district when I attended that same high school. Now, well, you know what it's like.

Try staying over after school for football practice (after dark as a fourteen-year-old) or other common activities and take a bus home afterwards as we did. You wouldn't care to, and your folks wouldn't allow you to.

Don't take offense, but you're really slumming around a good bit of the time, I think. You just cannot carry off safely the routine things we did as kids before the city soured.

And just because some yuppies moved into lofts makes downtown Milwaukee that much safer or better. Well, the downtown was rarely really dangerous in the first place. Downtown Detroit isn't bad either except for a few spots.

But woe be onto you if you linger just a little ways away, especially at night. But those were the places where I lived or frequented. No kids can do that anymore. At night, you avoid much of Milwaukee like the plague. And you probably employ the "buddy" system.



(Message edited by LivernoisYard on February 21, 2007)
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Bearinabox
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Username: Bearinabox

Post Number: 113
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 06, 2007 - 7:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you don't mind my asking, Livernoisyard, how did you end up in Detroit? No offense intended, but replace Milwaukee with Detroit in the post above and that's almost verbatim what every embittered fiftysomething ex-Detroiter in Oakland County has to say about their city. I just find it interesting that you left Milwaukee for those reasons and ended up in Detroit.
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 958
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Posted on Friday, March 09, 2007 - 11:30 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bump. I want to hear an answer.
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Milwaukee
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Post Number: 962
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Posted on Saturday, March 10, 2007 - 4:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

bump
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 994
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Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 10:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you don't mind my asking, Livernoisyard, how did you end up in Detroit? No offense intended, but replace Milwaukee with Detroit in the post above and that's almost verbatim what every embittered fiftysomething ex-Detroiter in Oakland County has to say about their city. I just find it interesting that you left Milwaukee for those reasons and ended up in Detroit.
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 1022
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Posted on Saturday, March 17, 2007 - 4:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Do you have any MUHS memories? 150 years this year for them.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2822
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Posted on Saturday, March 17, 2007 - 4:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There was some old fart of a vice principal named Fr. Boyle--some Irish asshole. There was a fairly young religious Jesuit brother who was a Willie janitor. Everybody liked him.

We pretty much played football during lunch hour in a large field where the "new" addition was built by 33rd Street. I caught a sixty-yard "Hail Mary" once among a pile of defenders. I was the only one going deep. Surprised he threw it to me because everybody else was open because I drew all the defense.
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 1043
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Posted on Sunday, March 18, 2007 - 11:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks. I wanted to know if you remembered anything. I forgot if I told you or not, but both of the Brookfield High school's are planning major renovations. I've been to both, its like going into a time machine. Nothing has changed in 40 years. I'll be sad if they ruin the 60's character.

I drove past 42nd and Capitol last night. It actually didn't look too bad. There are a number of very nice homes in that area. None were abandoned. All the homes looked like they were in good shape. It's a solidly black area but its middle class and pretty safe.

I really can't help but think the city is getting better. The poor blacks and just really all poor are getting pushed farther away from downtown and the surrounding neighborhoods. I'll be interested to see Milwaukee in 50 years.


I do service with MUHS on Sunday's at a nursing home. Pretty much everyone at the place is an old north side German. The priest is an old german with a heavy accent. I have a great time going down there and talking to people about old Milwaukee and just listening to the thick accents. I miss what Milwaukee used to be. I can also understand being bitter about what has happened. I'm very bitter about what the north side has turned into. I wish things had never really changed. I wish the north side was safe and clean and people worked. I wish the schools worked and there were jobs. I want all these things for Milwaukee but I don't feel that it's lost cause.

I think I should mention that downtown Milwaukee has attracted a few more companies back downtown.

1. Chase is expanding. I don't know how many jobs are being created, but enough to fill a new 10 story office building.
2. ATT is adding 200 more jobs
3. Blue cross is going to add 350 more jobs
4. Cramer Krasselt is building a new advertising office downtown
5. 350 new jobs are being created through a new hotel and condominium project downtown. I believe the hotel is going to be an Embassy suites.
6. Manpower is almost finished, soon to bring over 1000 jobs into the city.
7. Staybridge suites is going to add 150 new jobs with a new downtown hotel.
8. Kimpton Hotels is adding 200 jobs with a new 5 star hotel downtown.
9. Vetter Denk architecture firm is opening up a new office downtown and is planning on adding at least 20 new architectural jobs.
10. Red Prarie plans on building a new 25 story office tower and moving almost 2000 jobs downtown.


I know this isn't going to fix the economic conditions in the inner city, but this is a great amount of progress in just 6 months. I'm sure there's more than just that list.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2843
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Posted on Monday, March 19, 2007 - 12:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Go by 15645 Anders Court in Brookfield. That's where I lived as a teenager. The neighbors across the street (Pilgrim Road) own Hub Chrysler-Plymouth--the largest Mopar dealer in Wisconsin back in the 1960s and 1970s. I could buy any vehicle in his inventory for only $100 over his cost (and he would give me his actual cost book while I picked out what I wanted to get). In 1969, I chose a 1970 Plymouth Roadrunner with a 6-barrel carb and over 400HP for $3424. On the highway, you might get 10 MPG if you had a tailwind.

Hub bought three of them at that time, and Norm Nelson from Racine bought two of them and raced them as an owner/racer in 1970 late-model stocks (his own car got 8th place) in USAC that year and the other one, driven by Roger McCluskey was #1 in USAC that year. I bought the third of those Roadrunners while I was on leave in the Army.

Here's some account on the web: "Roger McCluskey - McCluskey's fine second place finish signaled things to come, as he would go on to win more major events in a SuperBird than any other driver - six in USAC. McCluskey started thirteenth in his Norm Nelson owned SuperBird, led two laps, and captured $9,000 for his runner-up finish to A. J. Foyt. This was McCluskey's only NASCAR appearance in a winged car. The clip found here has a great shot of Roger at speed down the backstretch."


Anders Court is right on top of the Sub Continental Divide on the Niagran Escarpment quite a bit higher than Milwaukee.

I put up an insulated fifty foot tower for my ham rig and a Hy-Gain tribander and TV antenna for the house if I wasn't using it. You can see to Lake Michigan many miles away from top the tower (which isn't there anymore).

(Message edited by LivernoisYard on March 20, 2007)
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 1046
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Posted on Monday, March 19, 2007 - 7:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I looked it up on Google Earth, that's a nice neighborhood. It's right off of Pilgrim and Burleigh place. It's pretty close to Brookfield East. I go there quite often for various things. I've always liked the older parts of Brookfield and Elm Grove. The homes aren't very old, but they're still nice. I like the windey roads and all the trees.

I'm a big radio fan. I don't know anything about radio's, but I like to listen to radio more than watching television. Was Bob Riteman around when you were in Milwaukee? My dad said he was one of the only guys in Milwaukee to play unique music.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2852
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Posted on Monday, March 19, 2007 - 7:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You spelled his name wrong. He worked at one of the stations where I worked in Milwaukee when he started, but I had already left town by then. When he began, I was working at the clear-channel 50KW (grandfathered at 200KW FM--highest powered FM in the US; 50 KW is the max elsewhere) blowtorch of the South--WRVA in Richmond.

And I didn't go to East--no such animal then. When I was there, Brookfield High (later--Central) was called BUHS--Brookfield Union-free HS.

(Message edited by LivernoisYard on March 19, 2007)
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 264
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 11:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's 30 or more bickering posts because you guys can't be mature enough to forgive and forget. Tell each other you're sorry and act like grown men or women or whoever grown.
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 1051
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 2:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

what are you talking about? we're not fighting, I'm asking about old Milwaukee.
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 1074
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 10:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought I should tell you the news before you looked it up or something. There was a shooting at Sherman and Capitol at 3 pm I believe on Tuesday. It was a white guy who was getting robbed by a black kid. The guy was a boxing coach, 6 foot 4 something like 250 pounds. He almost got the gun out of the piece of shit's hand before he got shot.

It was a goddamn 16 year old. Just outrageous.

It was kind of suprising. The black community never, NEVER helps the police, but they did this time. This is a respectable upper middle class black neighborhood. People were very angry. I guess like 5 black men and an off duty black sheriff chased this kid down. Its a good thing for that piece of shit that the police came when they did, I have a feeling he wouldn't have lasted too long.

I'm very angry and discouraged about this crime, but I'm happy blacks are getting sick of the crime.

He is going to be charged in criminal court and tried as an adult. If you can kill somebody, you're an adult.

Tom Barrett better figure what the hell is going on and start working to fix it and fast. He isn't going to be mayor much longer if things don't turn around and FAST! He can do all the church speeches he wants, but if people don't have education and jobs then crime will happen.

Did you ever go to the Washington Park Zoo?
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2914
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Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 1:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I went to that old zoo a few times as a kid. My father had some contract doing something or another on the new zoo. Installing some railings and making some windows, I think.

I lived within a block of Sherman and Capitol Drive until we moved to posh Brookfield when I was 13. As you know, Brookfield is comparable to West Bloomfield or close to it. But we still kept the old farm house on a double lot in Milwaukee where I lived for years afterwards for my father's cottage industry. While attending MUHS and Marquette University, I might stay overnight and batch it for a few days.

That area's now considered the outer limit for ground-zero as far as Milwaukee's crime territory is concerned--irrespective of how nice their houses might still be.

And BTW, all 17-yos in WI are adults for crime, and almost all 15- or 16-yos there are routinely waived into adult court for felonies. WI had enough of that codling BS well over a decade ago, even well before it entirely abolished governmental welfare.

(Message edited by LivernoisYard on March 26, 2007)
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 1097
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Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 6:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's some news about the local economy if you're interested.

http://milwaukee.bizjournals.c om/milwaukee/stories/2007/03/2 6/daily33.html?jst=b_ln_hl

State wide unemployment running at 5.9%

Metro Milwaukee running at 5.5%

Metro Madison running at 2.8%

Racine is usually the highest at about 9%.

Metro Milwaukee added a net 10,500 jobs. Overall, good news.
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 1102
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 9:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought I'd give you a link to this site. There are several hundred pictures of the old north side and the north side today. I've spent quite a lot of time looking at the old pics. There are a ton of the areas where you lived. Click on a region to see picture. I hope you like the site.

http://www.uwm.edu/Library/dig ilib/Milwaukee/index.html
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2934
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 1:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I generally hate looking at those pictures because they often show the mansions which were demolished. A case in point was the one demoed at MU for its Engineering school.

My mother did some work at Lutheran Hospital for a while after her kids were growing up. There was an older picture of the predecessor to it.

My father was a member of the KoC, so I would go play pool in the third floor billiards room of their historic mansion while taking a break from classes at MU.
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 1103
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Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 8:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Prospect, Wisconsin, Highland... they all used to be lined with world class mansions.

Marquette University, the college that is supposedly renovating west town is probably the worst offender. I know they have flattened at least 4 magnificent homes. They're also responsible for at least 2 cool old apartment buildings getting knocked down.

Did you ever go to the Eagle's Club on Wisconsin? That must have been amazing as a health club or whatever it was. It's now a rave and music hall.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2940
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Posted on Monday, April 02, 2007 - 5:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does Gesu still have those dozen or so bowling alleys there (with pin boys/girls)? I belonged to a daytime league there around lunch one day/week where we would bowl for real cheap, and the janitor there would cook up a few hundred hot dogs for sale cheap.
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 1127
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Posted on Monday, April 02, 2007 - 7:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No, they're all gone now. I've heard there were also some in the bottom of an old mansion on campus (now flattened).

There is a bowling alley at a new loft building at 16th and Wells though.

Milwaukee still has some great old bowling alley's with the manual set up. Polish Falcons on the south side is one that comes to mind. There's another one in Riverwest.

I guess bowling was huge in Milwaukee and then it kind of died. Now its becoming really popular again. I can think of at least 3 that are under construction right now.

What was the area around MUHS like back when you were in school?

I love those great old apartment buildings. A number of them are getting renovated. This has caused a lot of the trash that lived in them to move out and to the north. The area south of MUHS is also getting better. There are a couple nicely renovated homes.

I guess it's pretty hard to believe, but its becoming very mexican. I think that's causing quite a lot of tension as the Mexican's are beginning to take over the north side.

In my opinion, I like Mexican's better. The south side is clean and pretty safe. They keep their homes up much better than blacks do.

What was your church growing up? Gesu is an amazing church.
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 1129
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Posted on Monday, April 02, 2007 - 8:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I loaded a picture of Mader's to my Flickr account if you're interested. I'll post some north side pictures later.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/13282275@N00/444223147/

Not to worry, the building next door isn't abandoned, its being turned into lofts!

(Message edited by milwaukee on April 02, 2007)
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2944
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, April 03, 2007 - 12:03 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, right next to MUHS was Humphrey Chevrolet. When I transferred to Brookfield Union-free HS for my junior year, the Humphrey daughter sat next to me in one of my classes and was in other of my classes. She was attractive, as I recall. No attractive girls attend MUHS...

I heard that dealership's property was either sold or donated to MUHS. Its value back then probably wasn't so great, especially not for a new-car Chevy dealership since the neighborhood went to seed.

The Mader guy was in one of my classes at the time--probably German.

Nobody at MUHS spent any time in the neighborhood other than to park their cars nearby. It already was getting run down during the late 1950s. When I went back there around 1980 to check things out, the neighborhood was becoming a dump of crack houses and welfare agencies and such there where apartments or offices once were.

About that time, I encountered a son of one of my former classmates in Madison while he was at UW. He mentioned having to walk over the crime-scene chalk marks surrounding a dead murder victim right at the main entrance to your high school. It took over a week, he said, for the foot traffic and the rain to erase the chalk marks.

As you know, MUHS was in a commercial district and those buildings were probably first built around 1920 and showed their age only some thirty years later. I don't have to go there to be reminded that it probably is even more abused.

(Message edited by livernoisyard on April 03, 2007)
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2945
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Posted on Tuesday, April 03, 2007 - 12:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My parochial school--St. John de Nepomuc--was probably the worst pedophile teacher/priest place in the entire country according to USA Today. I always wondered why the Archdiocese closed it so early, especially after they spent all that money to build a new school in 1955.

The Church kept it a secret until news got out that Archbishop Weakland--the most liberal Catholic bishop/cardinal in the US--was a faggot and embezzled almost $1/4 million from the Archdiocese in order to pay off his queer lover's blackmail but got caught anyway.
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 1134
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Posted on Wednesday, April 04, 2007 - 7:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You're right about the lack of girls at MUHS. That was one thing I thought about before deciding to go there. I don't regret the decision, though.

35th Street was a big retail street. It still has quite a lot of business, just low income business. South of Wisconsin, 35th is pretty blown out. There's an abortion clinic, two gas stations, and urban cutz.

North of Wisconsin, there is still quite a bit of business. Harley Davidson and Miller are still around, so a couple of new strip malls have been built. Highland is still pretty nice and is pretty safe. There's a pretty substantial pocket of white people left north of Highland and south of the tracks.

But I know 35th is just a shadow of what it once was. Same with West Wisconsin Avenue. It's still very nice across the viaduct, but between 22nd and 35th it is pretty rough.

I love those old apartment buildings on Wisconsin, I really want those to get fixed up someday.

Did you ever go to the Arena or to County Stadium? My dad said that they had great food at County Stadium. They had old German ladies cooking great hot dogs and brats for practically nothing. He misses County stadium and he hates all the fake crap at Miller Park. He thinks its outrageous that they sell sushi and wine and other wuss food at the stadium. You like Milwaukee cuisine don't you?
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 2949
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 1:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I just ran a web search on Humphrey Chevrolet next door to MUHS...

It appears that it went out of business during the late 1970s or later. Glenn Humphrey in Elm Grove or Brookfield had financial interests in over 30 car dealerships. Around the late 1970s, the largest Wisconsin Chevy dealer was located in Madison. However, in 1972 Humphrey Chevrolet was the largest in Wisconsin.

There were two other large Chevy dealers in Milwaukee around 1970--King Braegger and Ruby Chevrolet at 51st and 52nd and Capitol Drive, which was the only commercial property on my newspaper route as a preteen or teenager.

It seems that Milwaukee was already experiencing bad commercial times even as far back as the late 1960s. The AO Smith Company two blocks from my school stopped making vehicle chassis around 1958--its main business--and eventually sold out to Tower Automotive in Troy, now bankrupt.

(Message edited by LivernoisYard on April 05, 2007)
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Michigan
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Username: Michigan

Post Number: 17
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 11:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey, I hope I can join this discussion. You guys have a lot of knowledge about both milwaukee and Detroit and I would love to learn from it. So this is my official olive branch to you LY.
I spent a lot of time at the eagles club. Nice bowling alley in the basement and a quiet place to get a beer in the mid 80s. The lanes at GESU are gone. Marquette has knocked down quite a few of those beautiful old houses. I wish they hadn't because we all know that whatever replaces them will not come close in detail and beauty- Just look at the new student union on wisconsin.
I Love both mad-town and MKE. But they are soooo different. To me, and this is only my opinion, Mad town seems to be linked much more closely to the more liberal east and west coasts. Not economically, but socially. Madison has a much higher profile than Marquette nationwide. It is grouped in with Ann Arbor as one of the baby ivys, so you get even more out of staters than Marquette (and over 50% of the out of staters at MU are from Chicagoland anyway).
North side and the west are still pretty rough. Will be for some time I think.
Loved County stadium, especially when bucky brewer slid out of the keg. good food, and used to be some great bars in the area. A good place to see packers games.
Another great thing about Milwaukee, frozen custard. Quick - pick one of these three Kopps, Gilles, Leons.
One more thing- I prefer Karl Ratches (sp?) to Maders. Was there last summer and had a great meal.
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 1196
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 12:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Michigan. Good to know another Milwaukean. Karl Ratzsch's is my favorite of the two. We go there once a year for my grandma's birthday, I always get the Hungarian Sausage. I am a Kopps fan, easily my favorite in Milwaukee. My aunt works at St. Luke's and we go to Leon's, but its not as good as Kopps.

I love Milwaukee and I know its a great city. I also know it has problems, crime, poverty, a bad economy for the uneducated.

I feel as a young Milwaukean it is very important for me to be concerned with the issues. If there isn't another generation willing or interested in solving the problems of society, then we're boned.

If we lose all hope and pride, what's there to live for?

I hate the thugs on the streets, I hate the crime, the poverty. It's terrible to see parts of my beloved city in that state.

But nothing is going to change if we throw up our arms in give up. We got to fight for change, we got to work and try to change. We got to vote and volunteer to make things different. Forget all that crap about we can't change the world by ourselves. What if we all chip in? Things would get a hell of a lot better.

I am an optimist, I am happy to be one. I'm young and I want change, I believe it can and will happen. I shouldn't be mopey or sad or depressed. My age group should be the angry ones fighting to fix society.

I love my city, I have faith in it and I'm not going to let you tear that down. I see change everyday in Milwaukee, its happening. You don't have to believe it, we don't need you.
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 1197
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Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 12:27 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would deserve a good goddamn slap in the face if I was content with my city, my state, my nation.

I hate what's going on right now, I want change. I'll do it by becoming educated, by working hard, having a job, making kids, and voting. I'll give to charity, I'll volunteer. Being a good citizen is helping bring about change. Now the issue is getting everyone else to do the same.
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 1199
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 12:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Michigan were you impressed by all the renovation and construction going on downtown and throughout the city? It's just amazing how much has changed in just 5 years.
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Michigan
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Username: Michigan

Post Number: 23
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 11:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Would love to move back there someday. Preferably the east side, bau downtown near Cudahay Towers would also be sweet. That area is really super nice now.
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 1215
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 9:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The East Side or Bay View are the only two places I could see my self living. Actually, downtown and the Third Ward are really nice too. I'm so glad to hear that you love the city. People who have seen it lately are always impressed. I feel great pride in my great city.
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Michigan
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Username: Michigan

Post Number: 39
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 10:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How did you get to know Detroit so well?
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 1228
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 4:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I really don't know too much about Detroit. I just love the city. Not to many cities in the world have the same quality of architecture, food, or cultural attractions. I love just about every northern city.

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