 
56packman
Member
Username: 56packman
Post Number: 1726
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Monday, September 10, 2007 - 11:42 am: |    |
Norm would go get some lumber stock from 100 year old logs that sank to the bottom of lake Superior, mill that clear pine into the stock he needed, feed it through the planer and shaper, pausing to remind us to always wear safety goggles. He would then proceed to his laser guided sawer (saw) and make precision cuts, use his biscuit joiner and carpenter's glue to make the new windows. He would finish them with Danish oil. they would be beautiful, but none of us could afford them. Better call Pullam window instead. |
Meaghansdad
Member
Username: Meaghansdad
Post Number: 136
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Monday, September 10, 2007 - 12:15 pm: | |
Best thing to do,[and the simplest] as other have suggested, I think, would be to rip the plastered ceiling out, replace it with 1/4' drywall paint it and apply some crown molding to hide the joints.
You should be able to rip out the existing ceiling yourself, but I would hire someone professionally to install the ceiling. |
Buddyinrichmond
Member
Username: Buddyinrichmond
Post Number: 221
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Monday, September 10, 2007 - 12:26 pm: | |
If you are a big-timer you can step up the 1/4" sheetrock to 3/8". |
Meaghansdad
Member
Username: Meaghansdad
Post Number: 137
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Monday, September 10, 2007 - 12:51 pm: | |
Buddy,
Isnt that 3/8' too heavy for a large ceiling? |
Buddyinrichmond
Member
Username: Buddyinrichmond
Post Number: 222
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Monday, September 10, 2007 - 1:44 pm: | |
Like you said:
quote:hire someone professionally to install the ceiling.
That's sound advice. |
Dabirch
Member
Username: Dabirch
Post Number: 2389
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Monday, September 10, 2007 - 4:13 pm: | |
Buddy, 3/8" ain't big time.
quote:1/4' or
quote:3/8'
-- now that's big time! |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 2469
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 17, 2007 - 9:50 am: | |
Still not sure about the ceiling, I may for the time being just repaint it. However, this weekend I did tear down wood paneling on a wall in my living room. Behind it, as suspected, was the original plaster wall in pretty terrible shape. I've decided to leave up the structure the wood paneling was nailed to, and use it to hang drywall. I know some think it is sacrilige, but to me it is a simple solution that will be a vast improvement to the wood paneling. (Though it was real wood, pretty decent tongue and groove stuff, it just doesn't fit and wouldn't be good for resale).
I have also torn down the molding around the entranceway to the hall. This was the original stuff, and I did give some consideration to trying to preserve it. However, there are so many layers of paint all over this room, that I've decided to replace it. I am going to take down the top and bottom moldings from the walls as well, and am considering doing a drywall "laminate" over it. The reason is that again, there are some cracks, and layers and layers of bad paintjobs over the plaster. Also, there is a wallpaper border around the top of the room that I will be able to bypass removing.
Alright, I figure some will take exception to my plans here, which is why I'm posting this. Just like to hear all the criticizms before making my decision. |
Goat
Member
Username: Goat
Post Number: 9822
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 17, 2007 - 11:05 am: | |
There are a lot of paint strippers today that will remove that paint fairly easily. Once you remove it and stain it you will be glad you did. As long as it is decent wood and not a secondary wood like pine, the trim will look fabulous. |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 2475
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 17, 2007 - 12:06 pm: | |
I did keep all the trim I brought down, and haven't damaged it in any way. At this point, either option is open. Perhaps I will experiment on one board and see how it goes. If I replace it, I will definitely mock the look of the original trim (6" wide all the way around). I was thinking of using a router on them though, to add some decoration to the edges. The original boards were just basic cuts, as was common in homes of the era. |
Ejr
Member
Username: Ejr
Post Number: 1
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Monday, September 17, 2007 - 10:48 pm: | |
If it's just sprayed on popcorn texture, use one of the drywall sanding kits that attaches to a shopvac. Get the kind that uses the sanding screens and passes thru a water bucket into a shopvac or the kind that just goes to a vac half full of water. They still use a fair amount of elbow grease but cut the mess down.
My sister used one like this on two rooms and a hallway (all walls and ceilings) in a house of about 1000 sqft: http://www.sandkleen.com/index .html
It was pretty quick and painless and there was very little dust. It was good enough that I wasn't invited over to help and buy pizza. |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 2500
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 9:31 am: | |
Ejr, thanks, but the fear is that after removing the popcorn, I find a plaster ceiling in pretty bad repair. So until I have the gonads to rip the ceiling out, I'm going to paint it to match the new scheme, and live with the texture. That project will happen, but I'm trying to get my living room basically set the way I want it by Christmas, so I can have a nice first Christmas in my first home. |
Meaghansdad
Member
Username: Meaghansdad
Post Number: 142
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 11:03 pm: | |
A room with clean, sleek features, and a popcorn ceiling isnt going to mesh. Sand the ceiling down, apply a very thin coat of a thin set with an adhesive to solidify the ceiling. Then apply two coats of a premium primer, followed by a color of your choice. |
Buddyinrichmond
Member
Username: Buddyinrichmond
Post Number: 232
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 8:12 am: | |
Thin set? |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 2541
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 9:04 am: | |
Meaghansdad, is that going to smooth out imperfections in the ceiling? 85 year old plaster is not going to be smooth when the popcorn is sanded off. |
Meaghansdad
Member
Username: Meaghansdad
Post Number: 143
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 10:29 pm: | |
Yea, thin set, with an adhesive to seal and bond the fissures that are sure to come with a house thats settled for 85 years.
I would sand it and get as smooth an edge as possible, apply a thin layer thin set, maybe two, a solid primer, should be good to go. |
Detroithabitater
Member
Username: Detroithabitater
Post Number: 36
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 10:36 pm: | |
I highly recommend AGAINST sanding 85 year old paint. Sanding is pretty much the worst thing you can do to lead paint. It gets airborne in your house, HVAC system, and carpet. You need to use HEPA filters to vacuum it.
Please do research on dealing with lead paint.
http://www.leadsafeusa.com/ |
Meaghansdad
Member
Username: Meaghansdad
Post Number: 144
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 10:43 pm: | |
didnt think about that, habitater. I stand corrected |
None
Member
Username: None
Post Number: 48
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, September 20, 2007 - 2:32 am: | |
Johnlodge
I'm currently restoring a large 1890s Victorian home, to it's original grandeur and encountered a 3 story fire place that had been abandoned to the use of a chimney for the boiler in the basement.
Unaware to me all three floors had poured concrete fire place aprons in the floor and were causing considerable floor sagging and related ceiling problems in the lower floors, time to investigate further.
So I called in the Professionals, Masons Carpenters and Plaster men, It's like the great plague had descended upon my home the predictions were dire and the only solution was an complete rebuild of the entire surrounding structure including a complete replacement for the chimney with an stainless steel liner for the new chimney and new roof for the mansard roof balcony.
Cool, all this came to 3 times what we paid for the house to begin with, So needless to say we went about it our self's, my daughter devised a way to minimize the mess and hassle of removing the plaster without wanton destruction of the surrounding area with dust and debris.
Our rooms are 15x20 or so with 12 foot ceilings, what she did was run a sawsall along each stud in the wall top to bottom 1 cut per cavity, leaving the plaster intact to the lath 17" wide and did the same along the floor joists in the ceiling leaving a rather strange looking pattern around the room.
Anyways this method facilitated the ability to remove the plaster and the lath simultaneously while being able to load the debris into manageable 50 gallon trash cans witch made disposable doable with out the roll off hassles and cost, we just rolled it to the curb several trash cans at a time it worked out beautifully.
The added benefits were the ability to rewire/ plumb the related areas with no hassles was great, another good Idea is to insulate between the floors while your at it, cut the sound transfer between floors down to barley audible as for the smooth ceiling it's great but the insulation hands down was the greatest benefit the whole house just feels tight no noise transfer at all it's sorta eerie sometimes, but definitely worth it.
Good luck with your project Johnlodge |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 2591
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 20, 2007 - 9:03 am: | |
Interesting, thanks for the input. |
Kaptansolo
Member
Username: Kaptansolo
Post Number: 279
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 10:30 am: | |
Johnlodge, I am late to this thread. I would strongly recommend that you tear it completely down. A lot of people do not pay attention to how much plater weighs. Then they add the 1/4 inch sheetrock and that sometimes contributes to further cracking in other parts of the house.
Take your time and tear it down. Look at your joists and check their condition. While you are at it inspect the "mechanicals" (electrical and plumbing). You may want to consider upgrading that as well.
If you think about the something like the "Golden Gate" Bridge...over time, the entire bridge has been completely "replaced" rivet by rivet. When houses start nearing the 100 year old mark. It is time to start replacing the things that we never want to think about replacing. But that is the only way they will last another 100 years. |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 2693
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 9:18 am: | |
Kaptan, thanks. I think for now I will limit my project to the rest of the room. This weekend, I hung drywall where I had torn down the wood paneling. This week, I am having a great wall guy my dad has used a lot for his cove ceilings come out and give me an estimate on getting the other three original plaster walls and the new drywall ready for paint. After that I will be making new trim for the room, doors, windows, crown, etc. Next, the hardwood floors will be refinished. I expect this to land me around christmas or so, and by then it will probably be time to take a break and refill the coffers. When I do get to the ceiling, I think tearing it out will be the way I go. You're right, I don't want to add any unnecessary weight to the house.
(Message edited by johnlodge on September 24, 2007) |
Sknutson
Member
Username: Sknutson
Post Number: 942
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 12:42 pm: | |
Johnlodge: Why don't you post some pics of your work-in-progress? We'd love to see some! |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 2700
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 12:44 pm: | |
Alright Sknutson, I'll take some pics when I get home. |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 2826
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2007 - 5:06 pm: | |
Progress is being made. All trim from around the doors and windows has been removed, as well as the mouldings. The wall guy is coming in Tuesday to tape and mud the drywall, and repair any imperfections in the plaster walls. Saturday I will be heading to the Depot to pick up some paint, and some lumber to make trim with. Finally get to put that new router to use. The wall guy's quote came in lower than I expected, which will leave me with some more cash for getting the hardwood floors refinished. Looks like I may have a very nice living room in time for Christmas!
Now if only I had the budget for some new windows! Taking off the trim, I did open up the cavity with the counterweights. Those are pretty cool, not something I've ever seen before. If any robbers come in my house, I have a nice hunk of iron on the end of a rope they can meet. |
None
Member
Username: None
Post Number: 78
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 9:55 am: | |
You do have the budget for new windows Johnlodge, after years of spending 1000 a window my kid got creative and removed the old windows to the jams, leaving the outside/inside trim alone (Major bonus)
he laid in a piece of red oak 1/4" around the sills leaving a perfect hole, for a reasonably priced custom sized thermo pane window from Pella to Jen weld the possibilities are endless and the fuel saving/convince will more than pay for them selves in short order
Hope this helps
Good day |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 2866
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 11:41 am: | |
I'm confused, are you saying make my own windows and just buy the glass? |
None
Member
Username: None
Post Number: 83
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 2:49 pm: | |
Sorry about that, I think faster than I type
Think about your window frame with out the windows in them you basically have a rectangle will a sill on the bottom, what he did was to remove the windows and the wooden trim that guides a double hung window and covered the remaining surfaces with 1/4" thick oak board 6 and 1/4 wide and fitted the pieces to the profile of the sill
The end result is an cavity that a custom made window slides right into, a couple of screws through the sides of the window guides and your done, so basically the new window is completely self contained be it double hung, casement or picture the possibilities are endless
Basically just a way to replace those old windows that do not match up to todays standard size replacement windows, without having to rip out the interior/exterior trim and surrounding plaster/siding
Hope this clarifies things |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 2887
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 3:37 pm: | |
Ah, yes I think I follow. Thanks! |
Sknutson
Member
Username: Sknutson
Post Number: 956
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 5:44 pm: | |
Johnlodge: I might have missed this before, but where in the D is your house? |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 2898
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 9:14 am: | |
Not in the D, my house is in Ferndale. Typical Ferndale 1920's bungalow with the big front porch and a fairly large finished upstairs that is a master suite w/tiny bathroom. |
None
Member
Username: None
Post Number: 111
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Friday, October 05, 2007 - 8:45 am: | |
Ferndale is my wifes favorite haunt and I fear some day she will find the house she always dreamed of and I'll be screwed, Brush park is where I always hoped to end up rehabbing a mansion.
However after 10+ years of living in a constant state of completely remodeling apt buildings/warehouses something tells me the golden years wont be spent in a project but a completely livable home
I honestly wont know what to do if the roof isn't collapsing while the foundation is sinking into the abyss in several different places causing the house to literately split down the middle supporting wall(think balloon type construction) causing the mansard roof deck to lean to the north while blowing windows out due to the lateral stress
Oh my, just thinking about it makes me shiver, nothing to worry about but the lawn and the neighbors dog shitting in it, cant be done she will just have to live there on her own and visit me in Brush park or the MCS, Roosevelt park would make a fine front lawn and with a little work I could have her ready for a party in no time, wonder if she's up for sale, the wife would be proud to the point of divorce I'm sure |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 2946
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 05, 2007 - 9:12 am: | |
None, maybe you can compromise and get a house that is pretty much ready to live in but has an unfinished basement. Then you can have some fun putting in a bar/rec area or something.  |
None
Member
Username: None
Post Number: 116
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, October 06, 2007 - 1:45 pm: | |
Johnlodge
I thought long and hard about your excellent suggestion and yes that would be the logical thing to do, I just hope come the time to buy a house I can still afford one in that neighborhood.
Seems to me Ferndale will be a sellers market for a long time to come and this is all good, however now would be the time to buy, but obligations to other things and investment capital are stretched pretty thin at the moment, some day soon I hope
Thanks for the thoughts and have a good weekend |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 2981
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 08, 2007 - 4:20 pm: | |
Ceiling update!
I took the backside of a push broom, and scraped the hell out of that textured ceiling. Really got it down to just a slight texture. Then I primed and painted it. It looks a LOT better now. Before, some of that texture hung down a good 1/4 to 1/2 inch, not kidding. Plus the paint had GLITTER infused in it. You barely notice the texture now.
I also primed and painted the walls. Wow, everything is looking great. The flat enamel finish I chose for wall paint hides some of the imperfections of the original plaster walls. Time to get quotes in on refinishing that hardwood floor, while I start on making the trim and mouldings. |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 3721
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 5:16 pm: | |
So I was able to restore the original heat registers in the house to a shiny mint perfect state. Good thing too, because apparently you would be hard pressed to find them these days. I did find some gravity register replicas, but they were over $100 a pop. My originals look much better, too.
I did get the floors refinished, and am currently in the process of creating and installing new trim throughout the room. Still trying to get this done by Christmas, but the trim and sills around the windows will be a little more complicated and may slow me down. |
Barnesfoto
Member
Username: Barnesfoto
Post Number: 4481
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 3:39 am: | |
A great method for removing mega layers of paint from old metal objects like cast iron hinges or heating grates:
Soak them in water with a few cups of TSP. 24-36 Hours. Wire Brush to the metal.
Goodbye, old paint! |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 3724
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 8:54 am: | |
I used some of that Citrus stripper. Just brushed it on, and the top layer of paint falls apart in about 30 minutes. Then brushed it onto the next layer and repeated as necessary. Then I used a wire brush bit on my drill, followed by decreasingly coarse steel wool. |
Mackcreative
Member
Username: Mackcreative
Post Number: 127
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 9:04 am: | |
Two things we found during our endless renovation:
A little dishwasher detergent in an old crock pot full of water (never to be eaten from again,) cook over night, slide the paint off small metal objects like door hinges with you fingers. Exact recipe can be found at thisoldhouse.com
Soygel, a stripper made by the Original Milkpaint Company, removed the yellow carpet glue/tar all over two of our floors, literally the only thing that would, and didn't (feel) like it ate my brain. |
Track75
Member
Username: Track75
Post Number: 2666
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 7:30 pm: | |
Have you found that Soygel stripper locally? I just found a gallon on my porch tonight but that's where the FedEx guy left it. I ordered it from the company (~$60/gal) but I'd love a local source. |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 3752
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 7:33 pm: | |
I've had success with small home hardware by boiling in vinegar with a little salt. Downside: Your house will stink, and I wouldn't use the pot again. I cleaned several doorknobs and faceplates that way. |
Mackcreative
Member
Username: Mackcreative
Post Number: 128
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 9:58 am: | |
I ordered it online, in the big container (2.5 gallon I think.) It does take significantly longer than conventional strippers, be forewarned.
Here's the method that worked for me: For our floors I would pour it on, squeegee it into a thin layer with an old edge of cardboard, cover it with plastic, and let it sit almost 48 hours, then most anything scraped off with a metal drywall spatula, cleaned up with a big bucket of water and a tiling sponge--the kind with the grit on one side.
Then we had the floor sanded, and are now finishing them ourselves with Penetrating Oil and Floor Resin from BioShield (all purchased online.) It looks beautiful and won't poison the kids. |
Goat
Member
Username: Goat
Post Number: 9948
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 10:21 am: | |
I used an environementally safe stripper from Home Depot (Green something, I will see if I have anymore and post the brand). I mopped it onto the floor, let it sit for about 20 minutes and then scrapped it off with a hand scrapper. I then washed the floors and the next day I was able to sand them and finish them. |
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