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Catman_dude
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Username: Catman_dude

Post Number: 74
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 5:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A co-worker asked me that question when I mentioned about Detroit having the largest mosque outside of the Middle East (according to another posting here.)

He wondered why does Detroit have such a large population of Middle East-originated people?

I had no idea other than to mention that I worked for an Arab-owned Elias Brothers Big Boy restaurant and that Peter Elias practically started the Professional Bowlers Association.

So how 'bout it?
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Frenchman_in_the_d
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Username: Frenchman_in_the_d

Post Number: 135
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 5:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Catman, if you ever have time, I suggest you go visit the Arab American National Museum on Michigan and Schaefer. Beautiful and breathtaking museum that will retrace the history of Arab Americans, that goes back more than 200 years.

However, you might ask why is it that the biggest Arab community outside the Middle East is in SE Michigan, it was mainly due to frenetic industrialization here.
Scores Lebanese and Syrians left the ME in the Early 19th c. looking for opportunities abroad. Many of them were suffering the declining Ottoman economy.
A large number of them emigrated to Senegal, the Ivory coast, Uganda, Argentina, Brazil and are sizeable communities, and economially very vibrant. Carlos Menem, former Argentinian president, for instance, was a Muslim of Syrian origin (Qubrus Mun'em, he latinized his name).
However, another chunk of them emigrated here, in Detroit, which used to be, apparently, a very promising land: jobs, industry, etc.

The more modern immigration is of different nature. Mainly political refugees, or escaping, civil strife, dictatorships, war and no future for younger generations. Indeed, most of the Lebanese can somehow trace some relative living in the US, and move in for a start.

The Arab American museum will beautifully retrace their journey to America.
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Crawford
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Username: Crawford

Post Number: 21
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 5:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know it's always claimed that Detroit has the largest Arab community outside the Middle East, but I find it hard to believe. One of the largest, yes, but probably not definitively the largest.

Are there really more Arabs in metro Detroit than in metro NYC? While I would agree the proportion in Detroit is much greater, I find it hard to believe the absolute numbers are larger. I can think of three or four "Dearborns" in greater NYC (Bay Ridge, Brooklyn, Patterson, NJ are some of the biggies), all with Warren Ave-style concentrations.

What about greater London? Greater Paris? There are TONS of Arabs in these cities. The northern and eastern suburbs of Paris are probably majority Muslim. While many of the Paris Muslims aren't Arab, I'd say hundreds of thousands are.

One thing which appears to be unique in the Detroit Arab community is the proportion of Christians in the overall population. Metro D has a huge number of Lebanese Christians. Are Chaldeans considered Arab?
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Kova
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Username: Kova

Post Number: 85
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Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 6:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

nyc has way more, but dearborn is most concentrated

(Message edited by KOVA on December 14, 2006)
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 1902
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 6:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

An Arab spokeswoman mentioned on WJR earlier this week that 80% of Americans who speak Arabic were Christians (or their desendants) who came here to avoid repression in the Middle East. Lebanese Christians and Chaldean Iraqis (essentially Catholics) come to mind...

(Message edited by LivernoisYard on December 14, 2006)
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4895
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 7:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Crawford, speaking just of city propers, NYC does have a larger gross population of Arabs. They have 70,000 who claim Arab ancestery in a city of 8,000,000+. Dearborn has 30,000 in a city of 100,000. You can see how the concentration would matter.

As for Metros, the top five goes as follow in terms of gross numbers:

1. Los Angeles
2. Detroit
3. New York/New Jersey
4. Chicago
5. Washington (DC)

Someone will have to find the actual numbers, though.
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1557
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 8:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Metropolitan Detroit is the largest concentration of Arabs outside of the Middle East. Over 350,000 people of Arabic heritage call Metro Detroit home.

http://www.allied-media.com/Ar ab-American/Arab%20american%20 Demographics.htm




I have heard those responsible for the mosque and learning center in Dearborn call it ONE of the largest in the country, not THE largest, because although it's large it might not be the largest and to assume it is shows lack of humility.
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Patrick
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Username: Patrick

Post Number: 3755
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 8:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In my opinion, I feel that the Arab community in Detroit has much more political clout than the Arabic communities of other large metropolitan areas. Agree?

A number of Christian Lebanese folks lived on the east side as well near Belle Isle. My grandfather grew up on Heidelberg and went to Eastern High School. His father and mother came to America from Lebanon looking for a better life. They were also among thousands who left because of the anti-Christian agenda of the occupying Ottomans. As a matter of fact my grandfather said that the ABSOLUTE worst word he could call someone back then was a Turk. It was worse than all the other four-letter words.

Great-grandfather came here first to scout it out and learned the country. He then went back and “found” a wife and had a daughter within a year. They came to America with nothing but a dream and an unbelievably hard work ethic.

I actually had the chance to interview my aunt for a school paper years ago. She was always amazed at the diversity in the area Elmwood cemetery area. You had Germans, Italians, Belgian, Arabs, Jews, and others in this area. I am guessing it was probably 1926 or so.

My great grandfather worked 80 or 90 hours a week and more making ends meet. They ended up having 11 kids. All of them went to college despite being the first born generation here. One became a lawyer, and several others became college professors and one was a WW2 hero. Another ended up becoming one of the most influential journalists in DC.

Btw: None of them were impressed with what Guyton did to Heidelberg. There house no longer stands anyhow.
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Patrick
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Username: Patrick

Post Number: 3756
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Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 9:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There isn’t really “one” Arabic community in Detroit. I know that the media and some on this forum may like to think that, but that isn’t the case. There isn’t a ton of solidarity amongst one united group even in these post 9/11 days. As a matter of fact, there is more distrust than anything.

Many Christian Lebanese have distanced themselves from Muslims in the days since the Towers fell. Many do not want to be associated with the Muslim community and I have heard this from probably 200 Lebanese folks in the area. This bitterness, especially amongst the older folks, goes back to the days of the sputtering Ottoman Empire. The Ottoman had been pulling this shit years before the Armenian Genocide.

Note: The recent war in Lebanon involving Israel did little to unite the Muslim and Christian Lebanese here in Metro Detroit. Many on both sides still harbor grudges from the Lebanese Civil War.

A lot of ignorant folks in the Detroit area like to lump Turkish and Iranian people into the “Arabic” group and it is seen as an utter insult. It’s similar to calling a Japanese person Chinese.

Hell, take a look at the geographic tract of the Middle Eastern sub groups in metro Detroit. Chaldeans tend to live in Sterling Heights and Troy in the Ryan/Dequindre corridor. The more affluent ones have settled in West Bloomfield. Most Muslims tend to live in Dearborn. Sure there are a few from each group spread here and there, but most go to where their own kind live. It makes sense to them to be by their own kind.
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Frenchman_in_the_d
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Username: Frenchman_in_the_d

Post Number: 136
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 9:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm still looking for sources, but SE Michigan has the largest ARAB community outside of the Middle East.
Paris, London and the large European cities, many muslims are not Arab. Many are Senegalese, from Central Africa, or especially in England, from Bangladesh, India and Pakistan, and in Germany, 80% of the muslims are of Turkish origin.

NY, as a city might have more Arabs than Detroit, but if you look at the tri-county area, yes, the area beats any other place in the world. Furthermore, look at the amazing infrastructures they managed to build: the largest Arab museum in the world outside the middle east, the Islamic Center of America also known worldwide.
The political strength of Arab Americans in SE MI is also immense. This is why we have a Syrian, Lebanese, Yemeni and other Arab consulates here (Birmingham, Southfield, Dearborn) and nowhere else in the country.

FYI, last Saturday the Syrian Embassy organized the Baath Party's 50th anniversary here in metro Detroit (Marriott, Troy). Dignitaries from all over the Arab world showed up.
Indeed, SE MI is definately a unique place for Arab Americans, but also of the diaspora of Arabs outside the middle east.

About chaldeans, yes they are Arabs. They are from Iraq. However, they will never admit it. I don't know whether they feel ashamed or insulted when you ask them if they are Arabs. Some of them claim to be 'phenecian', 'assyrian', 'syriac'... lol. It's completely non-sensical. All this blabering just to not admit they are ethnic Arabs.
Guess what, I'm a Gaul! And the Italians are now Romans, Eastern Germans are Prussians, and Turks should also say they are Ottomans! How ridiculous.
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Ray1936
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Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 978
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 10:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good thought, Frenchman. Hey, I'm a Druid!!!
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Barnesfoto
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Username: Barnesfoto

Post Number: 2859
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 1:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's to the Lebanese, who, like the Chinese, seem to have moved to every part of the world.
When I lived in Mexico, I frequently met folks who had Lebanese names...(No, sadly, I did not meet Salma Hayek) and often I had tacos al pastor, Lebanon's contribution to Mexican Gastronomy, for lunch.
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 131
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 8:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is one of my favorite articles describing immigrants in Detroit, not from the point of view of how they got here, but how they can/are helping to improve Detroit. http://www.modeldmedia.com/fea tures/shrinkage.aspx
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Patrick
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Username: Patrick

Post Number: 3758
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 1:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have Lebanese family in Australia, Brazil, Greece, England, and Canada. In a way, Lebanon is the crossroads of the middle east. At least, it appears so because it is so diverse.
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 4612
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 2:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Frenchman in the D should know that he is talking about the early 20th Century, not 19th.

As for why they are here, everybody has a story.
Demographers talk of push-pull factors. Immigrants are pushed out for a reason and are pulled to Detroit for a reason. Everybody has a story, including jjaba, whose father came to USA in 1913 from Ukraine.

But we aren't Ukrainian.
Jews don't call themselves Ukrainian and on his Citizenship papers of 1931, it reads Nationality: Russian, race: Hebrew. He signed his picture Issac and his typed name is Irving. His mother called him Yitzkok, and his brothers called him Ike. My mother called him, Irv.

Since dad loved Frank Murphy, the Detroit Socialist Mayor and Michigan Governor, dad was called "Murph" down at the factory. Everybody's got a story. In our case, look up the word, pogrom.

Jews and middle-easterners are lumped in "white" by the US Census. There are about 80,000 Jews in Detroit Metro. Everybody has a story.

jjaba ben Yitzkok.

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