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Jhartmich
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Username: Jhartmich

Post Number: 3
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 7:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

DPS Cover Up

I think people are missing the point with the most common assumption: That our elected board members and certain appointed members of Detroit Public Schools want to make the schools better. They don’t.

Certain board members were elected to tear DPS apart. Bringing back ex-superintendents are “not for the children sake”, but because they (all 4) are players.

Dr. Carla Scott has family connections to charter schools, her goal is to dismantle DPS and therefore dismantle the union. Her connection to Larry Patrick – a huge proponent of charter schools – is just a tad unethical, wouldn’t you think? Look who Larry Patrick himself lists as a reference on his resume? Dr. Snead. http://pview.findlaw.com/view/ 1542668_1?noconfirm=0


The reason the 4 candidates are meeting the mayor is because he need s a puppet. He did not get the control he wanted. He pushed certain candidates on board members – candidates that are weak puppets. Kwame will let the superintendent have the title and make the $225,000.00 a year, he will have all the power behind the scenes and dictates contracts.

I use to think that Board members, elected officials, and appointed administrators WANTED DPS to get better. They don’t. Just like fiefdoms in ancient history, if you keep the people dumb and ignorant so they can’t read for themselves, you can give them some “fast talk” (which Kwame is the master of) and appease them with sweet talk.
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1953
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Username: 1953

Post Number: 1207
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 8:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Breaking up DPS? Terrific idea!

Let's get moving on that, immediately.
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1953
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Username: 1953

Post Number: 1208
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 9:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

P.S. I spent quite a bit of time meeting and talking with Larry Patrick earlier this year. He struck me as a genuine person, committed to improving educational access and opportunities for Detroit children. His opinions were not wrong headed or extreme, merely those of an honest and committed community change agent.
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Jhartmich
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Username: Jhartmich

Post Number: 4
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 10:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree that certain changes are beneficial. DPS doesn't need breaking up, what it needs are honest, hard working, and smart leaders. Strong leaders can build strong organizations.

I subbed for a charter school for three years and the worked as a certified teacher for 2 years. I can only say that the charter schools I worked at were “off the hook” (and very few certified teachers). The turnover rate is at least 80%. No one talked about it, but almost every staff member has a resume on file somewhere; they merely wait for the call from a public school. The standing joke on Monday’s when someone was absent was, “they finally got their real job.” Besides the fact that mangers never see students only numbers, go check out the MEAP scores – 90% of the charter schools score worse on the MEAP than their next closest public school. I’m surprised most people don’t see that.

That said, there are some really good ones. Unfortunately, the ones they build in Detroit are fly-by-nights only looking to make a fast buck off of poor black people and a tarnished DPS image.

(Message edited by jhartmich on December 12, 2006)
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 1890
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 10:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

GIGO--Garbage In--Garbage out works for all schools, whether they are regular public or charter. Some parents pull their incorrigibles out of public schools to the charters with the hope that the change might turn their kids around. That may be well and good, but these problem kids could just as well bring down the charters also.

If the charters were to enforce some academic enrollment requirements, this needn't occur. But the charters usually take all comers until they hit capacity.

I was recruited once during the 1990s to apply at a Detroit charter school, but I wasn't interested, after scoping out the school. This particular school was and is one of the poorest academic schools around. Its kids come in with poor work/study skills and attitudes, and a change of schools in this neighborhood has accomplished nothing but a change for change's sake. Not that the nearest DPS school is really much better...
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 1952
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 10:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

More bullshit about charters.So damn transparent are your motives_ (this is not directed at Livernois)

I got news for ya charters are here to stay.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 803
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 10:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As a public school teacher, I might get blasted for my statements about charters but...I really think that they are great for some kids. My son attended a charter school at one point and he really excelled. I say provide a choice for parents and let them decide what is right for their kid. Most charter transfers (kids leaving DPS to attend charters) come right back after a few weeks anyway. Many parents find it isn't what they had hoped. Many kids don't behave any better there than they do in public school and are kicked out of charters. If it works for the family and the kid, more power to them. 9 times out of 10 it doesn't work. I'm not saying that public schools are the answer. Lord knows...I see the issues that plague public schools.

Until we, as a society, start demanding (and funding programs to facilitate) quality programs, kids will lose. Parents must demand quality teachers and must make a wild stink when the teachers don't teach, they must also teach their kids values and morals and to have a respect for education. Too much emphasis is made on material goods that kids (and parents) lose sight of what school is supposed to be.

We also need competent administration, community support, and the tools necessary to teach our kids in this global, technological society. NCLB is a wonderful idea but leaves no room for learning differences. We need to be more focused on the KIDS and less focused on bullshit.
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Digitaldom
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Username: Digitaldom

Post Number: 545
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 13, 2006 - 3:39 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

you also need parents that care.. and not thinking that school is day care.. I know Detroit Teachers as well.. I agree with you in many ways..

Problem is the parent of these kids don't give a shit.. The ones that do.. transfered the students.. it's time for there PARENT... to take some responsibility for there childs performance and NOT leave the schools to fix there childrens issues.. School is not daycare..

A PARENT needs to be involved in there childs lives.. not going to the parlor to pretty themselves up.. Bill Cosby said SOOO many things that are true to the urban communities.. and they all yelled at him.. for saying the truth... listen to your elders they KNOW!d
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Dsmith
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Username: Dsmith

Post Number: 113
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Wednesday, December 13, 2006 - 5:31 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

V-O-U-C-H-E-R-S
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 804
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, December 13, 2006 - 6:10 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Vouchers won't do a thing when the kids get sent back to public schools (because we have to take them regardless of their behavior) when they start stabbing and beating kids senseless (as happens outside of my building everyday). Charters and private schools will not tolerate kids skipping class (we have to keep those, they don't) or attack teachers (two such incidents happened at my building last Friday).

Public schools must accept all kids and there is little we can do to get them out when their behavior is such that would otherwise warrant them being sent to Juvenile Hall. Charters and Private schools can be selective in who they accept. Public schools are left with the trash. I don't agree with vouchers (if a parent wants a child to go private, they can find the money and if the kid isn't a problem child, many private schools will grant a scholarship or reduced tuition if the parents can't pay). The only thing vouchers would do is pad the pockets of private schools when the child is kicked out and sent right back to public schools.

As I said before, many parents and kids focus on material things and not on what is really important. Until parents and kids step up and start taking responsibility, there is little teachers can do except teach those kids who want to learn. When a teacher has 20 kids in the class who don't want to learn and 30 who do, those 20 usually wreak havoc on the class making it impossible to teach/learn anything.
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Dds
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Username: Dds

Post Number: 63
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Wednesday, December 13, 2006 - 2:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

V-O-U-C-H-E-R-S do not ensure that the parents get involved, sit down every night with homework, communicate on a regular basis with the teacher, get their kids to school on time (or on half-days at all), etc. etc. etc.
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Moreta
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Username: Moreta

Post Number: 283
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 13, 2006 - 3:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Vouchers and charters aren't going to help public schools fix their problems. They are going to help the kids who take advantage of the opportunities they provide. Do we still care about helping these kids, or are we only interested in getting more warm bodies in the seats in DPS so their funding can stabilize?
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3420
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Username: 3420

Post Number: 94
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, December 13, 2006 - 4:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I and many others have pointed out that the majority of the responsibility for academic success falls on the parents. Detroitteacher has already stated in another thread as well as I that the parents don't even show up at parent teacher conferences. DPS needs strong leadership and it will have to come from the parents, teachers, principals, and the community. The community has more power than the supt. and the school board, but yet no real action is taken to help better educate the students.

Whoever is going to be the next supt. is just going to sugar coat and brush over DPS problems like so many others have. They may say they are going to do this and that, but sitting in your office and just saying we need to fix this is not going to get the job done. The next supt. needs to actually go into the schools and make frequent appearances as part of there schedules. Show up unexpectedly on some of these schools and catch them off guard. I would just show up and just go into the classroom and ask the students what are you learning. Do you understand the subject? Are you getting the help you need to understand? Because the pay that the supt. will receive does not reflect the academic success that is shown in the DPS system. They are getting a $225,000 job for $25,000 worth of learning. Get my point?

A lot of these parents don't want to hear the truth, but I’ll tell them straight up. Your child needs to be in a better position academically in order ensure academic success. Ask these parents do they help there children with homework or ask them do they even show up to PTC when the student is failing. I know some may be afraid because of the response a parent may have or get offended, but this will show what is being done. You will be amazed that the parent acts just like the students and I have seen this with my own eyes. I’m not a teacher, but my mother is and I have been to her classroom often too see what Detroitteacher and so many others have pointed out.

All the blame can’t be on DPS and the teachers. Some students just don’t care and the parents don’t either. Kwame is an interesting person, but yet he is good at what he does and I don’t mean that in a good way either. By him being a former educator himself, he should at least do more than he can. Meeting with the candidates for what? So he can dictate the move of the supt. according to his agenda. What I see and what we all will most likely see is a supt. who will share Kwame views. What he will try to do is make sure this supt. can get test scores up, and clean the image up just enough so he can get residents into the city. You may knock me for it, but watch with you all seeing eye and notice what DPS will be like in the next few years. So is it a cover up? To an extent, and its interesting you would consider someone who already failed DPS to be hired again to do the same job. The community needs to get involved in this process.

We have a voice and it must be heard very soon. With the size of DPS population, COBO arena should be over crowded with students, parents, teachers, and the community with what we have to say about the state of DPS.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 805
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, December 13, 2006 - 6:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Teachers are scratching their heads over why Snead would even be considered again. The district where he is currently employed doesn't want him back either. THAT should tell us something.
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Firstandten
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Username: Firstandten

Post Number: 44
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 10:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fundamental changes need to be made in order for DPS to achieve its mission. First of all revenues and expenses need to be more in line. That might mean downsizing the district, closing a bunch of schools, laying off teachers and giving those that are left a raise. You might need to target the worst 10% of teachers in any given school for firing. You might need to hold back a significant number of students a grade because they haven't proven they could master the work in their current grade. The new superintendent might need to come to the conclusion that except for a few schools most of the graduates aren't college material and maybe the district should focus more on vocational-technical education,trades and entrepreneurship. If a superintendent came in with just those fundamental changes he would be run out of town at warp speed. Thats because in order to effect true change you just can't keep doing the same things that don't work. The stakeholders (mayor, school board, parents teachers and admin.) all have their political agendas which don't always support the true customer of educational services.. the students.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 809
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 5:19 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree that social promotion is a downfall in public schools (particularly DPS). I have kids who can't form a complete sentence in the 11th grade!! Learning disabilities have gone unnoticed and there are many more issues.

We do need a radical change.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5291
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 7:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

... like that toilet paper rationing incident in the bathrooms, Broken lighting fixtures, broken lockers, junk all over the floor, computers being stolen, kids being clowns don't want to learn something about the real world but learn Hip Hop. DPS suffers from these common problems every day. It seems to me that the majority black teachers, janitors, administrators, Detroit Federation of Teachers, principals assistant principals dignities is being taken away from state leaders and culture shock. Let us hope that their hearts are not being stolen.

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