Goose Member Username: Goose
Post Number: 25 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 9:39 am: | |
not sure if this has been discussed but I just saw this posted today on another chat board: Just a heads up that the vice squad is going around Detroit before Lions games handing out tickets if you have a beer. We were drinking before the game yesterday, as we do before all games and up comes a couple of guys, pull out badges, and start writing the tickets. We even had our beers in cups, but whatever. I guess a law is a law and they were just doing there jobs. I do not think they could write the tickets fast enough, they were nailing everyone. While walking in to the game we saw several undercover cops doing this. Don't they realize that we need to be drunk to watch the Lions, they shold have sympathy for us. The weird thing about it is they did not make us get rid of our beer, they said we could keep drinking. On a side note I did feel good going home after the game when I thought about how safe the city must be when the only thing the vice squad has to do is write tickets for people with open beers. Maybe the real problem all along has been us suburbanites coming down there and raising hell. Lions season tickets - $2,000 plus parking Tigers ticket package - $900 Reason to never go to Detroit again - priceless. just what the city needs.... |
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_
Post Number: 1620 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 9:45 am: | |
quote:On a side note I did feel good going home after the game when I thought about how safe the city must be when the only thing the vice squad has to do is write tickets for people with open beers.
I love when people play this card, so Detroit should ignore every crime and just focus on the big ones. Oh, I forgot drinking and driving from Football Games is such a small crime that no one has ever had an accident or killed someone. |
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell
Post Number: 3405 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 9:48 am: | |
Damn! If someone is actually paying to see the Lions, the cops should be handing out beers to the poor souls instead of ticketing them. |
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man
Post Number: 219 Registered: 05-2006
| Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 9:53 am: | |
I saw a guy at Gratiot & Brush relieving himself. I guess he couldn't walk the 50 ft. to the Porta John. It's idiots like this that give the partiers a bad name. |
1953 Member Username: 1953
Post Number: 1199 Registered: 12-2004
| Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 10:06 am: | |
People who pay to see the lions deserve tickets. |
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine
Post Number: 1416 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 10:07 am: | |
are they targetting vagrants as well? i mean, its only fair... |
Gannon
Member Username: Gannon
Post Number: 7471 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 10:26 am: | |
I'd bet if you were doing your 'gating in a paid approved city spot...say here in fabulous Eastern Market...you wouldn't be at risk of a ticket. |
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto
Post Number: 396 Registered: 07-2004
| Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 10:34 am: | |
That makes sense. Don't you guys have spot check in Detroit, where the police pull you over to check if you were drinking? They do that here in Canada around the holiday season. Right now there is spot checks on the highway, and the police pull over random cars, to check if you are drunk. It is a good thing and makes people understand they can't drink and drive. Not sure if they do it in Windsor or not? |
Conman Member Username: Conman
Post Number: 5 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 11:06 am: | |
Like shooting fish in a barrel. Why don't they have more police on the streets arresting the real criminals? |
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill
Post Number: 118 Registered: 09-2006
| Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 11:26 am: | |
If you try drinking on city streets in any other city they are going to nail you also,, Dont blame Detroit for that... In Windsor they have the ride program going on right now,, cops stop you in your car on any busy street at any random time and check...line up style, ,,, you have no choice, ,,,so dont feel so bad |
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_
Post Number: 1622 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 11:32 am: | |
IMO that is a terrible law, while I understand the need and the purpose, how is that unreasonable search legal while random drug screenings are privacy violations. |
J_stone Member Username: J_stone
Post Number: 350 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 11:39 am: | |
Why target just sports fans? What about the bums? Public piss/craping? What about littering? Lame money grab. |
Higgs1634 Member Username: Higgs1634
Post Number: 32 Registered: 10-2005
| Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 11:39 am: | |
Random searches/DUI road blocks are not used in Michigan...or much of the US because of the constitutional prohibition against unreasonable searches and seizures. In Michigan v. Sitz (496 U.S. 444)(1990),the U.S. Supreme Court reviewed a decision of the Michigan Supreme Court striking down drunk driving roadblocks as unconstitutional. The US Supreme Court reversed the Michigan court, holding that roadblocks were constitutionally permissible (just barely). The case was sent back to the Michigan Supreme Court to change its decision accordingly. But the Michigan Supreme Court sidestepped the Supremes by holding that DUI checkpoints, while they may be permissible under the U.S. Constitution, were not permissible under the Michigan State Constitution, and ruled again in favor of the defendant – basically telling the Supreme Court that they were wrong. Several other states have followed Michigan in this regard. |
Solarflare Member Username: Solarflare
Post Number: 567 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 11:40 am: | |
quote:I just saw this posted today on another chat board:
Uh-huh. |
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill
Post Number: 119 Registered: 09-2006
| Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 11:41 am: | |
Laws are different in Canada than the U.S. Also the public is overwhelmingly in favor of the ride program, Maybe thats why the incidence rate for Drunk Driving is actually lower. I think its called fear. People tend to respond when they fear something. |
Kenp Member Username: Kenp
Post Number: 140 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 11:45 am: | |
I came upon a check lane in Maryland this summer. They had a lighted sign about a mile before the road block warning people. Sobriety check lanes were stopped shortly after they started in Michigan a number of years ago. I dont think anybody has the right to stop you randomly in this country. |
Higgs1634 Member Username: Higgs1634
Post Number: 33 Registered: 10-2005
| Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 11:50 am: | |
yes the laws are different. that is what I was pointing out. Policing by instilling fear? Really? So, you would support the DPD kicking in your door to just take a look and see if you had a meth lab in your basement? You really wouldn't mind if the DPD ripped your family out of your car, searched them and the contents of your car while you were simply driving home from "White Christmas" at the Fox? |
Gannon
Member Username: Gannon
Post Number: 7475 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 11:51 am: | |
Doesn't stop them from inventing new excuses admissable in court. That would be a fun study, track all the tricks authority has used throughout our country's history that have been proven dirty when viewed under the illumination of constitution. |
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill
Post Number: 121 Registered: 09-2006
| Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 12:18 pm: | |
Higgs, that is not the point I was getting at and you are talking about an whole different extreme. The laws in Canada with the ride program are such that if you are caught drunk or above the acceptable limit you are ticketed, if there is a second offence, you loose your license for 6 months. Again, most Canadians are overwhelmingly in favor of this program and others that encourage compliance of generally accepted laws (drugs, alcohol, guns etc). The attitude is different, they want to work with the police to make the society safer -not against them. The cops dont drag you out of your car and start beating you, and guess what ,most of the people in Windsor do fear getting caught so they dont drive drunk as much,, I work there and trust me it works with the people in my office anyway..Does fear work ? In many cases it certainly does,, Thats why crime is so low in countries where people know you are going to pay dearly if you want to play. U.S. society was much safer decades ago for that simple reason, People knew you were going to get punished for illegal activity. So many just don't do it. It is called the fear factor, and it works very well there anyway. You are always going to have people who will not buy into that but the society as a whole is much more law abiding when they know that laws will be enforced. Actually not a lot different when raising children,, thats how you get them to listen in many cases. I guess if I was stupid enough to be driving around with Chrystal Meth in my car and got caught,, what happens ..happens |
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto
Post Number: 397 Registered: 07-2004
| Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 1:14 pm: | |
At Spotcheck(or RIDE if you want to call it that to), they don't search you and stuff. Most the time the cop just asks if you have been drinking, and lets you go, if they don't sense you are drunk or small of liquor, and stuff. If there is a reason for them to think you are drunk, then they do the whole nine yards with the breath test, walking the line, etc. RIDE was taken to court(I learned this in law class), but the court said RIDE was not against people's freedoms. Had something to do with the fact that they basically are just checking to see if you are drunk, and not searching your whole car, etc, and that the benefits of safer roads overrided the fact you are being stopped random. |
Gannon
Member Username: Gannon
Post Number: 7476 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 1:16 pm: | |
Don't get Higgs wrong, D'bill...he is using the common 'logical ends' experiment to illuminate one potential way these laws could go. Might show the difference between a crown and rebel state, we're still children of rogue colonies down here, don't forget that! One of our foundational statements was in direct reaction to the King's bad behavior through his standing army...no unreasonable searches and seizures against civilians. (unless you're on the wrong side in the drug war, of course) |
Goose Member Username: Goose
Post Number: 26 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 1:27 pm: | |
how this relates to drinking and driving and prevention is a stretch...... maybe they had a ride with a designated driver maybe they came to the tailgate on one of the many commercially run buses maybe they were just having a few before the game and had several hours during and after the game to sober up maybe it was o'douls regardless, the fact that the officers let them finish their beverage points to me that drinking and driving was not a concern..... |
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 4567 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 1:31 pm: | |
BC Bud is a huge crop in British Columbia. It's the largest cash crop in the Province. So as the drugs are trucked into Idaho, Idaho has a neat system. They put up a sign on a freeway, "Drug Check Point One Mile ahead". About 300 yards ahead is an obscure country exit used mostly by farmers. So, down the exit, run the drug trafficers. The sting is at the bottom of the hill. So beware in Idaho. jjaba, Westsider. |
Gannon
Member Username: Gannon
Post Number: 7480 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 1:46 pm: | |
Better to have that stuff off the Interstates, anyways...less to freak out the sheople, seein' how many of their neighbors partake. Traffic'd be backed-up up for miles and miles and miles. |
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_
Post Number: 1624 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 2:06 pm: | |
quote:how this relates to drinking and driving and prevention is a stretch......
How did you get home? Not a Stretch at all.
quote:maybe it was o'douls
Still has alcohol. Just sack up, you knew the law you broke it, pay the fine and the STFU. |
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 4570 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 2:09 pm: | |
It looks like the key here is do the tailgate on private ground? Can you tailgate in a private parking lot? jjaba. |
Higgs1634 Member Username: Higgs1634
Post Number: 34 Registered: 10-2005
| Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 2:26 pm: | |
D'Bill- I didn't intend to come off sounding so combative with the comment. Sorry, it was a logical extremes argument and was meant as sarcasm. I'm not some anti-cop/pro criminal activist, but I do believe that one should only be stopped and searched if probable cause exists; no matter how noble the cause behind the dragnet. If there is a reason to think I'm drunk (speeding, erratic driving, weaving, lights off) then pull me over. Simply driving at night should not expose one to the risk of being detained and interrogated. |
Gannon
Member Username: Gannon
Post Number: 7485 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 2:27 pm: | |
Jjaba, You can't go changing the rules in an extreme sport. Don't try to reign these guys in...remember the heartbreak they're attempting to suffer...it could get ugly. |
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 2247 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 2:37 pm: | |
I support all attempts by Detroit Police to bring in funds for the city budget. I usually hate on the cops for breaking up parties and being petty, but the fact is that you can't just tailgate anywhere. What's worse than this is the hundreds of cops they assign to sporting events. I had so many cops blocking my view at my standing room tickets at Tigers games. Indeed, there is lots of police work to be done, and no need to have excessive force standing around and getting paid at sporting events. |
Aschar76 Member Username: Aschar76
Post Number: 40 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 3:05 pm: | |
quote:Why don't they have more police on the streets arresting the real criminals?
criminal : one who has committed a crime Break the Law pay the fine or do the time dont whine about the police. |
Johnnny5 Member Username: Johnnny5
Post Number: 412 Registered: 06-2005
| Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 4:54 pm: | |
It's obviously just a money grab if the officers are telling those ticketed "Go ahead and keep drinking." Did Goose say that the people being ticketed were driving? Trying to connect these tickets to preventing drunk driving makes no sense at all. For one the majority of the people ticketed were probably not getting behind the wheel and secondly the officers let everyone continue drinking. The only reason they were ticketed is because they can afford to and will pay the $50. What a joke. |
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 2248 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 5:52 pm: | |
Goose--will you never go to Detroit again? Also, what if you got this ticket in a suburb. Let's say for some reason you're drinking on property that isn't yours in another community. Would your reaction be exactly the same? Would you be more understanding of the complaint, even if, like me, you thought is was stupid and petty regardless of where you got the ticket? |
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed
Post Number: 685 Registered: 02-2006
| Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 6:28 pm: | |
^^^ Oh here we go. My answer would be no. Well actually, it depends on the crime. In Kalamazoo where I went to school, police would sit and watch for some poor sap to accidentally step off private property with a drink (literally one foot in the street chasing a ball or something, I've seen it) and then ticket you for open intoxicant. It is this behavior that is ridiculous, no matter it's geographical location. Public intoxication enforcement is a useful tool in getting rid of nuisances, open intoxicant enforcement (when used in this manner) is not, IMO. |
Goose Member Username: Goose
Post Number: 27 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 6:56 pm: | |
first, it wasnt me, i copied it off another board, someone i know second, it shows what a lot of people feel about downtown detroit and finally, 8 weeks a year for lion home games are probably the extent that a lot of these people have as exposure to downtown, and to receive a ticket for something like this only makes them not want to come downtown, i know a lot of you will say good riddance, but these small things only tend to keep people away, why risk it, especially when they are coming downtown to support pure crap in the way of a professional football team im sure the police were also checking for drunks leaving the stadium after drinking overpriced waterdown swill at the stadium....... |
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 4576 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 7:04 pm: | |
Goose, you know it. When jjaba attends event downtown, the patrons are from over 50 miles from the Downtown Detroit venue. Goose tells it like it really tis. jjaba. |
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee
Post Number: 390 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 11:39 am: | |
One thing is for sure, this would never happen in Milwaukee. |
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 1561 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 11:47 am: | |
Between Bubba Helms, the Palace Brawl, and a myriad of other stupid drunk incidents, I have absolutely no problem with police in any community enforcing alcohol laws. |
Citylover Member Username: Citylover
Post Number: 1966 Registered: 07-2004
| Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 11:58 am: | |
Why should people not expect the same laws in Detroit that are other places?If breaking the law and being cited for it makes people not want to go downtown then they should stay home. Detroit deserves the same as any other city.I hope they do more of this and create an expectation of what behavior will not be tolerated. |
Johnnny5 Member Username: Johnnny5
Post Number: 419 Registered: 06-2005
| Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 12:49 pm: | |
Most local cities such as Ann Arbor, Pontiac and East Lansing rarely enforce their public consumption laws during major sporting events. When they do it's usually related to a disturbance or unruly fans. I have NEVER seen officers allowing those who were ticketed to continue drinking. |
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 1562 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 1:11 pm: | |
I've known plenty of people, including an old roommate, in Ann Arbor who have received tickets. They just don't bitch about it as much because they understand the law and accept that they got caught violating it. They certainly don't get bitchy with the police for enforcing it. (Message edited by lilpup on December 17, 2006) |
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku
Post Number: 983 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 1:16 pm: | |
this obviously is a money grab as most petty laws these days are. The worst right now is the MIP law for underagers drinking. The punishments handed out are absurd, and will in no way deter a kid from not drinking again. Welcome to the police state, have 2 beers and you're going to jail! Smoke a joint and go to jail! Fire a gun in a crowd and run like hell, we'll never find you, that costs too much |
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed
Post Number: 704 Registered: 02-2006
| Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 2:45 pm: | |
You don't go to jail for MIP unless you were being a total asshole to the cop or were beyond drunk. |
Noggin Member Username: Noggin
Post Number: 82 Registered: 09-2004
| Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 2:53 pm: | |
Grow up people. The Detroit police are going to hand out tickets to the suburbanites because it is easy and very lucrative to the city. They just pay the over priced fines and do not have to take them away in a squad car. For most property crimes they in many cases refuse or resist doing anything about it. Why haul in criminals when it is too much work and does not make money for the city? It is no accident that if a meter for a parked car runs over 5 minutes there will be a parking ticket attached. Just look at it this way...blah blah blah - give me money - blah blah blah. It is simple. |
Citylover Member Username: Citylover
Post Number: 1967 Registered: 07-2004
| Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 3:00 pm: | |
Poor Chitaku........had a few run ins with the law regarding alcohol maybe?....... Anyone caught drinking or with alcohol or drunk because that is posession of alcohol is gonna get cited_ a cop can not look away on that one. As for the punishment I am sure it is fair.I don't want your drunk underage ass pulling any crap where I live(a2) just as the people in other cities don't. |
Pistonian_revolution Member Username: Pistonian_revolution
Post Number: 57 Registered: 05-2006
| Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 6:37 pm: | |
its amazing to see how quickly a person's hidden hatred of detroit can get triggered. a person has an open beer on a city street and they get ticketed and then all of a sudden, it's DETROIT's fault! something tells me this isnt the first time you've ranted about how much detroit sucks, Goose. get a grip. |
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku
Post Number: 987 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 8:48 pm: | |
It was unfortunate on New Years someone called the cops on their own party and instead of leaving and drinking and driving, I stayed thinking the cops would consider the fact that there were 5 of us sitting there quietly as everyone else bailed. Instead the gave us MIP's which gave us 50hrs community service, probation for a year, 2000 in fines and i had to watch an autopsy. Keep in mind I didn't drink and drive and never have. It was a little ridiculous if you ask me. |