  Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 17 Registered: 10-2006 |
December 5, 2006 As Auto Prosperity Shifts South, Two Towns Offer a Study in Contrasts By MICHELINE MAYNARD and NICK BUNKLEY Twenty years ago, Livonia, Mich., was a prosperous Detroit suburb, with upscale neighborhoods and high-end stores in a new mall selling Hermès and Chanel, which some locals wore on special occasions to dine at the romantic Fonte D’Amore restaurant. The local economy was thriving because of the Big Three automakers, which operated humming factories near Livonia and employed thousands of managers who commuted about 20 miles to the auto companies’ headquarters downtown. Three hundred miles to the south, drivers back then on Interstate 75 could zip right by Georgetown, Ky., and barely notice it, with its tiny downtown, small college, quaint Victorian homes, and a spring that locals claimed was “the birthplace of bourbon.” The local hangout, Fava’s, was about the only place for a decent meal. Now, two decades later, the two cities have seemingly switched places economically. Livonia is stumbling, as Detroit’s automakers close factories and eliminate blue- and white-collar jobs. Just last week, Ford Motor announced that 30,000 workers had opted for deals worth up to $140,00 to leave. In all, with similar offers at General Motors, about 70,000 auto workers, or one-third of those in American plants, have decided this year to leave. Georgetown, however, is booming because of Toyota, which has invested more than $5 billion in a sprawling manufacturing complex, leading to the construction of new schools, hotels and dozens of smaller factories run by suppliers to Toyota. Their changing fortunes offer more than a tale of two auto cities. They provide a close-up look at the impact of a broader economic shift of the nation’s auto industry from north to south, as Detroit falters and their surging Asian competitors invest in Southern states. Over the last two decades, for example, the number of automotive-related manufacturing jobs in Michigan has fallen 34 percent, according to Economy.com. By contrast, the number of automotive jobs in Kentucky rose 152 percent over that period. “There is a definite shift away from the strongholds of American manufacturing to places that were never manufacturing centers,” said Gary N. Chaison, a professor of industrial relations at Clark University in Worcester, Mass. “These international companies want a fresh start — not in a town like Detroit, with a long history in the auto industry, but in an empty field where people appreciate them.” The shift carries with it not just thousands of well-paying jobs and billions of investment dollars, but also a sense of prosperity gained or lost. In Georgetown, it means managing a rapidly growing population, being dependent on a single employer, and hoping that Toyota’s march to the top of the global automobile industry continues. Fewer Jobs and Services For Livonia, the shift means acknowledging that the industry that once provided its region the equivalent of civil service jobs can no longer be relied upon, forcing the city to shrink the services it can offer residents. Despite signs at Livonia’s border boasting of “55 years of progress,” Mayor Jack Engebretson recently had to lay off 90 people and cut $5 million from the city’s budget. Seven elementary schools closed this fall because of falling enrollment. Wonderland, among Livonia’s original shopping centers, was torn down over the summer. In once-prestigious neighborhoods like Old Rosedale Gardens, even price cuts do not help owners sell their historic properties. Detroit’s auto companies have also pulled back on moving employees around the world, meaning there is less of a reliable churn in the local housing market. “Three years ago we had just as many people transferring in as out,” said Jeff Glover, a local Realtor. “Now it’s about three transferring out to one transferring in.” Herb Miller, 80, moved to Livonia from Detroit in 1961 when he transferred to a job at the newly built G.M. bumper plant in town. He still loves Livonia, but rising crime concerns him. “It seems like about the time that everybody was writing about what a great place this is to live, things started to change,” said Mr. Miller, recalling several murders that shook the community several years ago. Although retailers have been clamoring to build on the west side of Livonia to serve wealthier exurbs, his section of town has been losing businesses. The closest shopping center, the 42-year-old Livonia Mall, is likely to be demolished within a few years. “They’ve got to do something about that — that’s a dead mall,” Mr. Miller said. Livonia’s population, which exploded from 18,000 in 1950 to peak at almost 120,000 in the 1970s, now appears to have fallen below 100,000, according to an estimate by the Southeastern Michigan Council of Governments. Today, Plymouth Road, the city’s longtime business corridor, is more of a reminder of the city’s past success than a shopping destination. The aging owner of Fonte D’Amore closed his Italian landmark restaurant this summer. Livonia’s annual holiday parade was discontinued three years ago because of budget constraints. Nearly all of its strip malls have vacancies. There is no mystery why Plymouth Road is hurting. Michigan has the highest unemployment rate in the country, and both General Motors and the Ford Motor Company are eliminating tens of thousands of jobs through buyout and early retirement offers. Workers at all three Detroit automakers live in Livonia, but it considers itself primarily a Ford town. Jobs at Ford originally helped attract residents who fled Detroit after the 1967 riots, and the company employs more than 4,000 people at its transmission plant on the west side of town. For now, those jobs appear to be safe, and in fact, Ford recently filed paperwork to invest about $45 million to update the factory. But with Ford trying for its third turnaround in five years, that commitment could change. “There are a lot of Livonia residents that are going to face challenges as Ford goes through its reinvention of itself,” Mr. Engebretson said. “We’re holding our breath.” Smaller manufacturers in Livonia have been hit hard. The city has one of the Midwest’s largest industrial corridors, a six-mile strip of factories and warehouses along Interstate 96. In 1995, more than 95 percent of Livonia’s 40 million square feet of industrial space was occupied. The vacancy rate has more than doubled since then. Officials recently started marketing the corridor with the slogan “Industry’s Highway” in the hopes of filling some empty buildings, ideally with companies that are not in the auto business. “We don’t want to be tied in any significant way to any one industry because it’s just not a healthy thing to do,” Mr. Engebretson said. As for Georgetown, it had no industry to speak of and only one McDonald’s when Gov. Martha Layne Collins made her first trip to Japan in the mid-1980s, hoping to lure a foreign auto company. She had watched as Kentucky’s northern neighbor, Ohio, landed two Honda plants and a big technology center, while to the south, Tennessee had lured both Nissan and won the Saturn plant. An Enthusiastic Reception She said she believed that Georgetown was an ideal location, set near the intersection of Interstate 75 which runs north to south, and Interstate 64, which travels east to west. It is also just 15 minutes from Lexington, home to the University of Kentucky and a small airport. When Toyota began narrowing its options, the state Legislature approved a $147 million incentive package to help land the factory — 30 times what Ohio spent to land Honda, although half what Alabama would eventually spend to lure Mercedes-Benz. Georgetown residents were excited by the possibilities. “I know what it was like here before Toyota came,” said George Lusby, the Scott County executive judge, the equivalent of a county administrator. “Back then, the stores were half empty.” Still, there was criticism of the governor for seeking foreign investment, and fears among some residents that a foreign company might not be loyal to the state. “Toyota is now accepted as part of the fabric of Kentucky, but it wasn’t 20 years ago,” said Dennis Cuneo, who recently retired as an executive in Toyota’s North American manufacturing operations and is now a consultant to the automaker. Given that Toyota has invested more than $5 billion to date in Georgetown, “I’d do it again tomorrow,” Ms. Collins said. Among the original workers to land a job at the plant was Cheryl Jones, a manager at a local supermarket with no factory experience. Twenty years later, she is now vice president for manufacturing at Georgetown, and recently traveled to Mexico to help open a new Toyota plant there. “I’ve been all over the world now because of Toyota and the plants that we have,” Ms. Jones said. Workers in Georgetown sometimes find themselves stuck in the miniature rush hour that occurs in late afternoon, when pickup trucks and Camrys pour out of the factory and turn onto Cherry Blossom Boulevard. The local population has nearly doubled in 20 years, to about 20,000. There are at least a dozen new subdivisions, and some houses have been built directly across from the Toyota plant. So have dozens of smaller factories, creating something akin to the industrial corridor in Livonia. Prospective investors are constantly on the phone to Jack Conner, executive director of the Georgetown/Scott County Chamber of Commerce, looking for vacant land where they can build new plants. The buildings are not all commercial. Just this decade, Georgetown has built a recreation center, complete with an outdoor skateboard park; new elementary, middle and high schools; and is expanding a Japanese garden. The Cincinnati Bengals now hold summer practice in Toyota Stadium, also used by Georgetown College. Downtown Georgetown bustles with antique stores, an espresso bar in the old bank building and Fava’s, which recently got a face-lift and now sells T-shirts and postcards, along with its meringue pies. The city now has three McDonald’s and a Wal-Mart Supercenter. An Uneasy Feeling Yet, some worry that the prosperity will not last. Employment at the plant leveled off about two years ago, at about 7,800 workers, and there is little likelihood Toyota will hire many more, except to replace those who are beginning to retire from the factory. Plant managers, however, are constantly lobbying the company for new work, and landing it. This summer, Georgetown began building a hybrid version of the Camry sedan, replacing production previously done in Japan. And there is a large swath of empty space inside the factory that could be used to add another model to the plant, perhaps a crossover vehicle or a Lexus luxury model. “There will never be another Toyota,” Ms. Collins said. “There are other companies, there are other manufacturers, but there is only one Toyota.” Back in Livonia, Mayor Engebretson remains optimistic that the city will regain a sense of prosperity. He readily acknowledged the challenges facing the city, which has fared better than crumbling factory towns like Flint, a national symbol of the auto industry’s decline. “All in all, I think Livonia is still a very vibrant community, and I am convinced unequivocally that our brightest days still lie ahead,” he said. “People have fallen on hard times, but we’re working awfully hard to keep the status that has been enjoyed by this community for many years.” | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 3707 Registered: 10-2003 |
Georgetown is a non-union plant next | ||
Fortress_warren Member Username: Fortress_warren Post Number: 277 Registered: 10-2006 |
This is because all you left-wing pinheads had a war with Livonia. Couldn't leave well enough alone. | ||
Wazootyman Member Username: Wazootyman Post Number: 168 Registered: 02-2006 |
This article is crap. I say that somewhat out of personal bias, but also due to the facts, or rather those left out of the article. I'm trying to decide if this article was written by head of the Georgetown Chamber of Commerce. "Twenty years ago, Livonia, Mich., was a prosperous Detroit suburb, with upscale neighborhoods and high-end stores in a new mall selling Hermès and Chanel, which some locals wore on special occasions to dine at the romantic Fonte D’Amore restaurant." Livonia still has upscale neighborhoods. Livonia has some of the lowest unemployment in the Metro Detroit area. In the last "20 years" a new shopping mall has been built - Laurel Park Place - that is anchored by Von Maur and Parisian, both of which are upscale department stores. I don't care if Fonte D'Amore closed. I can't recall the exact reasons, but one of them was so that an owner could retire and his staff could further persue operations at Giulio's down the street. There have been a dozen or so upscale restaurants that have opened in the city limits in the last 10 or so years, and at least one is under construction right now. "Livonia is stumbling, as Detroit’s automakers close factories and eliminate blue- and white-collar jobs. Just last week, Ford Motor announced that 30,000 workers had opted for deals worth up to $140,00 to leave. In all, with similar offers at General Motors, about 70,000 auto workers, or one-third of those in American plants, have decided this year to leave." This is so misleading. I don't doubt that layoffs have affected Livonia residents. However, the article seems to associate them with Livonia directly. Ironically, one of the few plants Ford is currently investing in is the Automatic Tranmission Operations plant in Livonia, which I don't believe has suffered mass layoffs. Oh wait, here it is: "For now, those jobs appear to be safe, and in fact, Ford recently filed paperwork to invest about $45 million to update the factory. But with Ford trying for its third turnaround in five years, that commitment could change." Whatever... "Despite signs at Livonia’s border boasting of '55 years of progress,' Mayor Jack Engebretson recently had to lay off 90 people and cut $5 million from the city’s budget. Seven elementary schools closed this fall because of falling enrollment. Wonderland, among Livonia’s original shopping centers, was torn down over the summer." City budgets all over are suffering and forced to layoff people. Mature cities are going to face declining enrollment. Wonderland was torn down, but is being replaced by a new development. It was old, poorly managed, and no longer a viable shopping center. How is this news? "In Georgetown, it means managing a rapidly growing population, being dependent on a single employer, and hoping that Toyota’s march to the top of the global automobile industry continues." Boy, this seems smart. Good thing this has never been done before. I can't see how this mentality could possibly fail them... "In once-prestigious neighborhoods like Old Rosedale Gardens, even price cuts do not help owners sell their historic properties. Detroit’s auto companies have also pulled back on moving employees around the world, meaning there is less of a reliable churn in the local housing market." I live in Rosedale Gardens, and there isn't any sort of abundance of houses up for sale. There is not a single home for sale on my street at the moment. Houses that have gone up for sale have all sold. "Herb Miller, 80, moved to Livonia from Detroit in 1961 when he transferred to a job at the newly built G.M. bumper plant in town. He still loves Livonia, but rising crime concerns him. 'It seems like about the time that everybody was writing about what a great place this is to live, things started to change,' said Mr. Miller, recalling several murders that shook the community several years ago." I don't see rising crime. It's still listed as one of the safest cities in the US. If he's referring to the Italian jeweler and his family that were executed several years ago - I hate to be stereotypical, but has anyone seen the Sopranos? It wasn't a random crime by any means. "Today, Plymouth Road, the city’s longtime business corridor, is more of a reminder of the city’s past success than a shopping destination. The aging owner of Fonte D’Amore closed his Italian landmark restaurant this summer. Livonia’s annual holiday parade was discontinued three years ago because of budget constraints. Nearly all of its strip malls have vacancies." You don't think that the fact that the owner of the restaurant was 'aging' had anything to do with selling it? - Nah. Strip malls all have vacancies. Oh, except for the one they just built across the street from me on Plymouth Road - it's completely full. "There is no mystery why Plymouth Road is hurting. Michigan has the highest unemployment rate in the country, and both General Motors and the Ford Motor Company are eliminating tens of thousands of jobs through buyout and early retirement offers." Didn't they already say this? "'Three years ago we had just as many people transferring in as out,' said Jeff Glover, a local Realtor. 'Now it’s about three transferring out to one transferring in.'" I do part-time IT work for a local Century 21 branch, whose owner recently told me that things are picking up and he's planning on adding agents. Huh. "Downtown Georgetown bustles with antique stores, an espresso bar in the old bank building and Fava’s, which recently got a face-lift and now sells T-shirts and postcards, along with its meringue pies. The city now has three McDonald’s and a Wal-Mart Supercenter." Dear God, get me a moving van now. This sounds amazing. | ||
Southwestmap Member Username: Southwestmap Post Number: 646 Registered: 01-2005 |
I just heard the Mayor of Livonia on WWJ doing a rebuttal. He is very angry, says that the reporter fabricated things to fit his agenda and that the NYTimes is "ethically-challenged," so such a smear job should be no surprise. I have long said that the NYTimes is out to get Detroit and, now, the Detroit region. They really do have some agenda about Detroit. Remember that NYTimes columnist called Detroit the nearest approximation of Hell just three or four years ago. I have since tabulated many other smears in the pages of the times. | ||
Mountainman Member Username: Mountainman Post Number: 117 Registered: 02-2006 |
If one doubles the vacancy rate of the industrial park in Livonia from 5% .... man that's like 10%. Call in the bulldozers. The place is practically abadoned. How can you survive with only 90% of the space leased out! I'm somewhat amazed they didn't declare Livonia's neighbourhoods "ghettohoods" of marginally upper middleclass residents. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 1967 Registered: 10-2003 |
So, is anything in the article actually incorrect? Would someone care to put together an intelligently written rebuttal instead of just denying the claims made by the NY Times? | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 375 Registered: 06-2006 |
Funny, from reading the article you'd expect to see smoldering ruins of a dead city when driving through Livonia... I can attest that the neighborhood I grew up in in Livonia still looks the same as when I was a kid, all the same people still live there (including my mother), lots of new builds have gone up/are going up all over the place, we have one of the nicest shopping malls in the region in Laurel Park Place, and the city just opened up a brand new state of the art Recreational Center just a few years ago... Livonia is doing fine, and I find it noteworthy that the only people complaining are not residents of the city...lol | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1259 Registered: 11-2003 |
Livonia having to close schools has more to do with the fact that the kids have grown up and moved out and the parents still live there. | ||
Southwestmap Member Username: Southwestmap Post Number: 647 Registered: 01-2005 |
One error: in the WWJ interview, Livonia's Mayor said that the article states that 90 Livonia City employees have been laid off. The Mayor says that he specifically told the reporter that 90 positions have been eliminated by attrition. No city employee was laid off or lost a job, but the positions were eliminated following retirements and resignations. | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1861 Registered: 11-2004 |
"I have long said that the NYTimes is out to get Detroit and, now, the Detroit region. They really do have some agenda about Detroit. Remember that NYTimes columnist called Detroit the nearest approximation of Hell just three or four years ago. I have since tabulated many other smears in the pages of the times." Interesting that the NYT has an agenda against Detroit. I mean, to what end? Strange that you feel that way, since there have been many complimentary articles about Detroit in the Times over the past year or so, most recently last Thursday about the new MOCAD. | ||
Southwestmap Member Username: Southwestmap Post Number: 648 Registered: 01-2005 |
I agree about the new museum article. However, what other complimentary articles? What other that don't tear down as much as they build up? Can you cite any? | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1862 Registered: 11-2004 |
There was an article about the Kales building and other downtown housing conversions in the real estate section last year, a good travel section writeup early this year (I think), a VERY complimentary article sometime in there about downtown's apparent resurgence ... I just did a quick search on the times site and actually could not find any evidence of an agenda either way. How many articles can you cite that are negative? And I mean negative coverage, not just coverage of negative things happening here. | ||
Stecks77 Member Username: Stecks77 Post Number: 206 Registered: 08-2006 |
Its a conspiracy!!! The NYTimes is single handedly trying to bring down Detroit. Those crazy left leaning biased liberals. Ridiculous. If you honestly believe the NYTimes is out to get Detroit and Michigan then you obviously have no clue that the economy is in shambles and the region is one of the most undesirable locations to start or transfer a manufacturing business. The auto companies are retracting and will continue to do so for years to come along with all the suppliers. Livonia will shrink even further along with the rest of the area. Some of you are just pissed that Livonia was singled out. Is that fair? No, but wake up to reality for christ's sake. (Message edited by stecks77 on December 05, 2006) | ||
Mjb3 Member Username: Mjb3 Post Number: 119 Registered: 11-2004 |
A main reason the city of Livonia is hurting financially is the exhorbitant public pensions. Nearly every city and municipality is going to slowly go broke under the strain of these. Govt's are going to have to switch to 401ks instead of defined-benefit plans like the rest of us. No politician has the cojones to take this on, not even Engler would... tick tock tick tock.. | ||
Southwestmap Member Username: Southwestmap Post Number: 649 Registered: 01-2005 |
I started to keep track a few years ago: the Frank Rich statement about Detroit being the nearest approximation of hell; an article about Flint that spoke very negatively about Detroit in the first paragraph; an entire article about Detroit being the only city in the country with a single movie theatre, etc. Other times you will see that Detroit is dismissed with very faint praise. I know a prestigious civic Board that tried very hard to get the editor and publisher to discuss the parade of negative stories, but couldn't get a call-back or a reply to their thoughtful letter. The NYT later said, in the mea culpa coverage about the reporters who made up stories, that the paper did not respond to complaints about story accuracy. They then appointed a readers' representative to work on fairness and truth in reporting. But that guy says he has a hard time changing newsroom attitudes. Look at the coverage of the Detroit auto manufacturers. Can GM do anything right for the NYT. Its not just my idea: many people around the country have noticed the anti-GM bias. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1528 Registered: 06-2004 |
The NYT isn't just anti-GM, it's anti-Detroit automakers all the way around, with Micheline Maynard leading the way. Sometimes ya have to wonder if someone's getting on the side. | ||
Fortress_warren Member Username: Fortress_warren Post Number: 289 Registered: 10-2006 |
about Detroit being the nearest approximation of hell Take the view from almost anywhere but Detroit. You don't have to make things up. Just report what happens there. It's a shithole. Metro Detroit has a lot further to fall, the natives remind me of the people on the Titanic. Discussing how it's going to be a "brisk swim". | ||
Spacemonkey Member Username: Spacemonkey Post Number: 127 Registered: 03-2006 |
I'd rather live in Kentucky than Livonia. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2237 Registered: 02-2005 |
Interesting article. You simply cannot say that the NY Times, which is a leftist organization by most accounts, is 'out to get' the Detroit area, because this story basically shows that the sunbelt is winning out over the unionized north: it's a FACT. This story just demonstrates the transfer of wealth, from the middle class suburbs of Detroit, to the south, based on where the middle class jobs have gone. Livonia is one of those places lacking character, so it is not hard for people to pick up and go. I am largely agreeing w/ Fortress_warren; let's just admit already that most of SE Michigan is a wasteland, and if you're not making a decent amount of money while you're here, you might as well leave. | ||
Fortress_warren Member Username: Fortress_warren Post Number: 290 Registered: 10-2006 |
I'd rather live in Kentucky than Livonia. If I had a pension, I'd live in K-Tucky. | ||
Illmatic774 Member Username: Illmatic774 Post Number: 87 Registered: 02-2006 |
The South, LOL | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1261 Registered: 11-2003 |
A lot of the south has people living in very poor conditions (ex. New Orleans) so it is is very easy for them to set up shop, find cheap labor that is not interested in the union. The problem is they are having problems finding people with the skills and training to fill the positions. Throw in the lower taxes and you see where we are in this position. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1529 Registered: 06-2004 |
Those who care about the area and the people here will stay and fight. Those who just care about money or other personal gain won't. will eventually make for a better city that way | ||
Fortress_warren Member Username: Fortress_warren Post Number: 291 Registered: 10-2006 |
The South, LOL Those Southern voters are going elect the next President. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2239 Registered: 02-2005 |
I'm not saying I endorse that view, Lilpup, and I'm not saying that this view should pertain to people who care about Detroit itself. If all you've known is manufacturing/middle-man type work and all you've known is your cul-de-sac in Livonia, when your job disappears, are you gonna "stay and fight" for good old Livonia? I don't know how many people are that attached. It is certainly possible to stay, though. There is always a job for you. | ||
Cwl704 Member Username: Cwl704 Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2006 |
As a person born and raised in Livonia for 20 years this NYtimes article makes be ill.What does this guy have against it?? | ||
Herbpowell Member Username: Herbpowell Post Number: 22 Registered: 07-2004 |
In regards to NYT conspiracy, has anyone seen this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =qLcvcGUn-KU from the NYT? | ||
Docmo Member Username: Docmo Post Number: 170 Registered: 10-2005 |
Rejoice all liberals. Your wonderful NYT strikes again. If only Livonia had 3 McDonalds, all would be right in this sad little corner of the world we live in. | ||
Rrl Member Username: Rrl Post Number: 696 Registered: 12-2003 |
I see no mention of a Starbucks in Georgetown, therefore, they have not yet arrived. | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 358 Registered: 01-2005 |
Herbpowell: thanks for the link. I read the printed story in the NYT. As I recall, the poor guy was fired because of it. I subscribe to the NYT and have for years. I think it's an excellent paper, even though I rarely agree w/ it politcally. However, I agree that this article left a lot to be desired. Very superficial at best. I noted a reference to the impact of the '67 riot. Just think about it. A bunch of people breaking the law drinking after hours. Others who threw bricks at the cop cars. The result of that conduct (and that of others involved, including some cops) may have been the single most devastating, long term event to have occured here. Ever wonder where we'd be today had that event had not occured? It seems as if at least half the people in my sub subscribe to the NYT; one sees the classic blue NYT plastic sacks everywhere. I have heard the NYT has 1000's of subscribers in the area. I think it's the largest circulation national newspaper, a little ahead of the WSJ and USA Today. I can't see them purposefully alienating so many customers, but if so we all ought to complain. It has a news bureau here and a big advertising staff, glomming on to the auto ad dollars and others. | ||
Fortress_warren Member Username: Fortress_warren Post Number: 293 Registered: 10-2006 |
You don't need a Liberal conspiracy at the NYT. The shithole that is Detroit, speaks for itself. lOWeLl, and the rest of the flavor-aid drinkers, will disagree. | ||
Jerome81 Member Username: Jerome81 Post Number: 1209 Registered: 11-2003 |
Georgetown better be careful, putting all their eggs in one basket. Sounds awfully similar to, ahem, Metro Detroit. A single small town that is completely built around one Toyota plant. Eventually the same pressures that caused the Big 3 to move factories elsewhere and them to reduce headcount will come to Georgetown. By then, the global auto industry will have shifted even further, and such a plant could very easily suffer the same fate many Detroit plants are suffering. There is no rule or guarantee that says the auto market will continue to grow, or that toyota will continue to grow as it has. GM used to rule the earth. Look at them now. You don't think it can happen to Toyota in 30 years? Most didn't think it would ever happen to GM or Ford either. You think the hubris that plagues GM and Ford can't grow inside Toyota? You're dead wrong. So it does demonstrate the shift of wealth. But Georgetown is putting itself in a somewhat dangerous position. Better than Toyota NOT being there, but certainly there will be a time in the future when they could suddenly find themselves a ghost town. | ||
Fortress_warren Member Username: Fortress_warren Post Number: 294 Registered: 10-2006 |
Georgetown doesn't have much choice. Like F_W, it just happened. You go with the latest trend, ride that out, then see what happens. Cities don't have a choice. It's one of the Evil Things, at least that's what libs think. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 217 Registered: 04-2006 |
LOL. After hour drinking caused the riots? It had nothing to do with racism? Roight. While we're at it, Detroit wasn't the only city to have riots during tha time period. Some of the same cities that also rioted are doing a lot better off than Detroit right now. | ||
Wilus1mj Member Username: Wilus1mj Post Number: 163 Registered: 05-2005 |
Lexington, KY is also a nearby booming city. I visited that Toyota plant a few years ago and it was something else...very clean, well lit, the equipment/buildings was nearly new. Too bad 5 billion couldn't have been invested in Michigan. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 85 Registered: 10-2006 |
Not sure that Toyota is a big fan of the unions; keeps them out of SE Mi for the most part. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4820 Registered: 10-2003 |
Wilus, you need to go no further than up 96 to Lansing to see some great, efficient, new automobile plants (Lansing Grand River, and GM Delta Township), but it didn't result in a boom, mainly because the plants are tradeouts as GM has pretty much closed every other plant in Lansing in the past 4-5 years. The Lansing Grand River here in downtown, though, was actually expanded very recently. | ||
Yvette248 Member Username: Yvette248 Post Number: 254 Registered: 10-2006 |
Quote: I have long said that the NYTimes is out to get Detroit and, now, the Detroit region.... It seems funny to me how suburbs have no qualms about bashing Detroit, but when someone does it to their precious suburbs, everyone is up in arms! This is hypocrisy in the extreme. The entire state is in decline, not just the city. Anyone can find something bad to say about anywhere. If you don't take pride in where you live, no one else will. The NYTimes doesn't know the difference between Detroit and Farmington Hills -- its all the same region to them. How does it feel to reap what you have sowed??? | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 384 Registered: 07-2004 |
The article does make some sense even if the Livonia people don't like the article. No matter how stable places like Livonia may be, they still are not the first choice places to live anymore. I see that each time I visit Detroit. Places like Livonia, Sterling Heights, etc. They are all past their prime, and many established families are moving out of these suburbs for further out regions. And that can't be denied. Thats why places like Livonia must work together with Detroit to form a strong inner city suburb alliance to kickstart a revival and keep these areas more stable. | ||
Yvette248 Member Username: Yvette248 Post Number: 256 Registered: 10-2006 |
Hey Mikey, you obviously aren't from round these parts are ya? Folks 'round dese parts don believe in all dat high falutin' workin together such n such. So go on an take yo city slicker, new fangled ideas of regional cooperation back down yonder! We like things just fine da way they are. lol | ||
Docmo Member Username: Docmo Post Number: 172 Registered: 10-2005 |
What bullshit reporting. Livonia has three McDonalds also!!! 1 19311 FARMINGTON RD LIVONIA, MI 48152-1404 MapIt! DriveIt! 1.62 miles Freestanding Y Y Y Y Y 2 15399 MIDDLEBELT ROAD LIVONIA, MI 48154-3805 MapIt! DriveIt! 2.07 miles Freestanding Y Y Y N Y 3 11800 MIDDLEBELT RD LIVONIA, MI 48154 MapIt! DriveIt! 2.73 miles Freestanding N Y Y Y Y 4 39700 FIVE MILE ROAD PLYMOUTH, MI 48170-2709 MapIt! DriveIt! 3.12 miles Freestanding N Y Y Y Y 5 39555 SIX MILE NORTHVILLE TOWNSHIP, MI 48167 MapIt! DriveIt! 3.22 miles Freestanding N Y Y Y Y Show me | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 3384 Registered: 10-2003 |
I find that writer makes some shallow and unsubstantiated statements. "There is no mystery why Plymouth Road is hurting. Michigan has the highest unemployment rate in the country, and both General Motors and the Ford Motor Company are eliminating tens of thousands of jobs through buyout and early retirement offers." Absurd. Plymouth Road has been stumbling for decades before these current event, just like the rest of the tired and increasingly squalid strip mall-lined mile roads of the inner ring burbs. If Toyota built in Livonia that wouldn't change that trend. It is much more a factor of the overall collapse of bricks and mortar retail in the face of bigger better sprawlmarts and internet sales. "Jobs at Ford originally helped attract residents who fled Detroit after the 1967 riots..." So did they flee or were they attracted? What a muddled statement. I'm sure research would reveal if Ford attracted residents it was because it paid good wages and workers could live nearby. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2241 Registered: 02-2005 |
Good point there, Lowell. There is no doubt that it was a much greater trend of de-urbanization and segregation that drove those fleeing residents, not just the riot itself. It happened long before 1967. | ||
Catman_dude Member Username: Catman_dude Post Number: 66 Registered: 03-2006 |
I'm so glad that my fellow citizens of Nankin Township rose up against that evil regime of Livonia during the 1960's. Livonia tried to annex the area that the Westland Shopping Center was to be built but the populace rose with their pitchforks and torches to vote themselves as the City of Westland!!! Yay!!! Livonia only got as far as having Nankim Mills and Perrinville Elementary Schools, though in Westland city limits, as part of the Livonia public school district. As a kid, I always stared down the Livonia side from my house on the Westland side of Joy Road. I even growled sometimes at them...."Grrrrrrrrr." | ||
Carolcb Member Username: Carolcb Post Number: 5 Registered: 11-2006 |
I don't think it is just the NYTimes, everyone wants to think negative thoughts about Detroit, about Cleveland, about E. St. Louis, and most of the people saying negative things have never been there. Personally, I am sure that Georgetown is probably red neck hell, and I would take Detroit despite any fault over that any day. Let them have Georgetown. | ||
Cman710 Member Username: Cman710 Post Number: 56 Registered: 07-2006 |
Hi Lowell, You wrote: "'Jobs at Ford originally helped attract residents who fled Detroit after the 1967 riots...' So did they flee or were they attracted? What a muddled statement. I'm sure research would reveal if Ford attracted residents it was because it paid good wages and workers could live nearby." Wasn't the author's point that the jobs originally attracted residents in the years before the riots, and that after the riots, people began to flee? While it appears that the criticism of the author's claims more generally seems appropriate, I do not understand this particular one. I'd love to hear your thoughts. | ||
Just_for_the_halibut Member Username: Just_for_the_halibut Post Number: 5 Registered: 06-2006 |
Toyota picked up where GM left off in SW Ohio and NKY. GM left that region and Toyota was more than happy to build across the river. Now Ford is closing its doors. If you drive from the Ohio River south on 75, you'll notice that Georgetown is a suburb somewhat of Lexington. Its a big horse farm area. Lexington has several other very large companies such as LexMark (the printers) Ashland, Square D, not to mention having a large university. Indiana just won the new Honda plant. Many people I know back in Michigan whined that Granholm didn't do a good enough job. Sorry, but Michigan was not even on the map for a manufacturing facility. Honda and Toyota stick to right to work states. Georgetown is located in a wealthy historical part of Kentucky. Not some huge ghetto like some people portray the south as. Nashville is another example, the cost of living is cheaper, my friend just bought an amazing house for just under 200k, where that same house would probably cost close to 300k in a fancy suburb in metro Detroit. And there are a lot of northerners in TN and KY. Yes there are some rural yeehaw areas, but its not some redneck hell every where. If you want that you can go down to Mississippi or Alabama. | ||
Just_for_the_halibut Member Username: Just_for_the_halibut Post Number: 6 Registered: 06-2006 |
Also, as some people have previously posted, the suburbs have a lot of work to do to lure businesses,etc. What is the difference between Livonia, SH, and say Rochester? They all have the same types of houses, no strong neighborhoods, etc. The only draw would be schools. Its like there are 20 suburbs that are pretty much all the same and they struggle to differentiate themselves from the others. Thats what you get when you build warehouse and stripmall after stripmall. Every place looks the same and its harder to attract people. I personally wouldn't live in Livonia or SH. They are both boring and it takes forever to get anywhere. The houses are about equal as well as the number of strip malls. No real center of activity (other than a mall yeah ok I guess) or real draw for me to live there. I think every city is trying to make their place unique to try to draw people. I guess thats why people are jumping on the RO and Ferndale "trendy downtown" bandwagon. I think its a joke that the city of Troy wants to make Big Beaver a central hub of activity. The thing is like 50 yards wide...are people going to walk around to bars and malls. Hahahaha. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1532 Registered: 06-2004 |
Not even close - they're all over non-right to work states. Honda has four places in Ohio alone and Indiana won the new Toyota plant. Only 22 states have specific right to work laws and I sure don't see manufacturing flooding the likes of the Dakotas or the Carolinas | ||
Just_for_the_halibut Member Username: Just_for_the_halibut Post Number: 8 Registered: 06-2006 |
As far as I know Ohio is a right to work state. The Honda plants my friends work at are non union. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 1533 Registered: 06-2004 |
non-union and right to work are not the same thing right-to-work means you can't be forced to join a union, if one is present, as a condition of employment non-union means no union is present | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 2091 Registered: 10-2003 |
Like it or not, Livonia is showing many classic visible as well as statistical signs of an impending decline, especially on the eastern edge. While the western side of the city with Laurel Park Place, etc. and surrounding communities like Northville, Novi, etc. there to prop it up, the east side is definately in decline. I give it 5-10 years before it is no different looking physically, statistically and reputation wise than Redford Twp. It will end up like Warren with an area that everyone recognizes as being in bad shape and "dangerous" (south of 696) and an area that is solidly middle class, but starting it's slip into decline (north of 696) because of the reputation of the area to the south. Sterling Heights, as long as the current tax structure exists in Michigan, will also meet the same fate as Livonia and Warren within the next 10-15 years. Talk to any urban planner or public administration person and they'll confirm what I'm saying. | ||
Pagesix1536 Member Username: Pagesix1536 Post Number: 17 Registered: 12-2006 |
I live...and work in both the cities you just described (Warren and Livonia). Can't say I disagree, Warren is getting to be an older city with what I call a lot of cookie-cutter starter homes. I wouldn't say it's the horrible picture you paint. I live just a tad north of 696 (between 11 and 12) and I in no way fear for my safety or anything. It's no Shelby Township, but we have a good neighborhood with a lot of original owners from the 60's. They're good people. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 5248 Registered: 02-2004 |
Wazootyman, TOO BAD For Facist Livonia!!! A long time ago the city was running on auto power and the SMART BUS transportation. Now its just a "HAS BEEN!!" suburb. Wonderland Mall is gone. The stores in Livonia Mall are declining. The so called Downtown Facist Livonia on Plymouth Rd. is now a white man's ghetto. More industrial plants are either downsizing or closing down and the Facist Livonia City Council and its citizens voted to opt out the SMART BUS transportation and brought in their phoney bus system that would never work. Livonia's population is still in the decline and citizens including the mayor better do something about it rather than talk about the problem. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 5249 Registered: 02-2004 |
Since Livonia and Warren have suffered population decline. Why is Macomb TWP. Dearborn, Sterling Heights, Troy, Clinton TWP., Canton TWP. Novi and other Ex-urban cities have received increase population while the unemployment in Michigan is increasing? | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 530 Registered: 02-2006 |
OOPs! They forgot to mention the $100,000,000.00 retail development replacing Wonderland Mall. Oops! they forgot to mention the $75,000,000.00 College Park development. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 220 Registered: 04-2006 |
It's kinda sad that such an established place like Metro Detroit/Michigan is fighting for scraps with backwoods spots like Indiana, Kentucky and Alabama. Michigan really needs to back away from the manufacturing industry as fast as it can. |
