Discuss Detroit » Archives - Beginning July 2006 » It's over for the DMC « Previous Next »
Top of pageBottom of page

Yvette248
Member
Username: Yvette248

Post Number: 141
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2006 - 10:42 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Michigan State Medical Society Declares State of Emergency

The Michigan State Medical Society has declared a state of emergency because of the impasse in contract negotiations between Wayne State’s School of Medicine and the Detroit Medical Center (DMC).

If an agreement is not reached Wayne State could lose many of its top physicians and many of its medical students could go elsewhere if medical residency programs are ended or put on probations.

The current contract ends December 31.

http://www.wxyztv.com/wxyz/nw_ local_news/article/0,2132,WXYZ _15924_5145856,00.html
Top of pageBottom of page

Yvette248
Member
Username: Yvette248

Post Number: 145
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2006 - 4:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The national group that has the power to pull the plug on about 70 medical residency programs operated by the Detroit Medical Center and Wayne State University began three days of meetings with the institutions Tuesday.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=2006611150426
Top of pageBottom of page

Kimmiann
Member
Username: Kimmiann

Post Number: 64
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2006 - 4:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I wouldn't write the DMC off just yet, much of the negotiation impasse is likely just posturing; I've seen it before. I've worked for the DMC for almost 10 years now, and I would be very, very surprised if these gloom and doom predictions actually came to pass (not to mention looking for a new job!).
Top of pageBottom of page

Ccbatson
Member
Username: Ccbatson

Post Number: 4
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2006 - 9:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think "it is over" either. But I do think that Mike Duggan has a plan and is going to see it through. This plan includes not paying WSU 90 million a year, and therefore, unless somebody puts a gun to his, or WSU's, head, there will not be a contract. The ACGME may, or may not, follow through on their threat to close the residency programs in contention. Even if they do, that is not the end of the DMC, or WSU (but it is the end of 900 residents' programs, and many dozens of WSU physicians jobs at the DMC). In the long run, I believe it will cause major harm to both parties (more the DMC, than WSU), maybe (even probably) enough to kill the DMC in the mid term future. A major nasty move by Duggan to say the least. I would encourage residents of the state of Michigan to take note if he someday appears as a candidate for a major elective office.
Top of pageBottom of page

Yvette248
Member
Username: Yvette248

Post Number: 147
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2006 - 10:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So much for regional cooperation. To end a historical partnership like this over a couple of dollars is just plain stupid.

imho
Top of pageBottom of page

Ccbatson
Member
Username: Ccbatson

Post Number: 8
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2006 - 10:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not to be argumentative, as I agree with your point, but 100 million dollars per year is not a couple of dollars. If that much money were to fall into the DMCs' lap free of charge (ie without costing them their University affiliation), it could be enough to save the system....If there is one redeeming quality, as I see it, for Duggan, it is that he would love to accomplish this end (but can't).
Top of pageBottom of page

Yvette248
Member
Username: Yvette248

Post Number: 150
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 8:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wayne State, DMC prepare for breakup

http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll /article?AID=2006611170336
Top of pageBottom of page

Izzadore
Member
Username: Izzadore

Post Number: 6
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 1:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This may (probably some time from now) turn out to be a good thing. Usually, great Med schools have their own Hospital. I'd like to see a Wayne State Hospital one day.
Top of pageBottom of page

Apbest
Member
Username: Apbest

Post Number: 278
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 3:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

one day? they're partnering with a suburban facility, building a new program in Troy?

thats fucking horrible news

especially for the proposed PM expanion being studied probably alot of which would have been fronted by large employers in midtown like DMC

but thats really a minor issue considering how bad this would be for DMC And wayne. DMC will ahve lots of layoffs and Wayne's med program will loose alot of prestige...having the DMC 2 blocks away was a big boost
Top of pageBottom of page

Ccbatson
Member
Username: Ccbatson

Post Number: 12
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 1:39 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

WSU will survive in the long run, current residents and fellows are the major injured party here. The difficulty for WSU is that most existing major hospitals in the area already have residencies and are collecting the revenue for them. While they might be willing to pay a small amount for the affiliation with WSU, it would not make sense to pay an amount equivalent to what was being received from the DMC for something that they largely have already. Therefore, it will be hit and miss/piecemeal work to recoup as much of a full residency compliment which wil be a long and laborious process given the 65 programs displaced. Next is the issue of acreditation, this will have to go through the same governing body (the ACGME) that is likely to strip the certification away over the next few weeks to months. How eager will they be to reissue certification to the parties that caused the dissolution in the first place? WSU and the DMC (who also stole 3 years of funding from the government in this process) will have their work cut out for them in trying to convince the ACGME to let them proceed.

I hope people realize what Mike Duggan has done in regards to this funding issue. He stole the residents salaries (where an average resident carries 150K in school loans and gets paid 40K a year) for 3 years from CMS (ie the government). The total take in this crime is probably about 300 million dollars (with an M), and since he is stealing from the government and they generate all of their revenue from taxes that we all pay, he is stealing from us!!! Stealing 300 million dollars from the government would carry a penalty of several consecutive life sentences under normal circumstances. That is who and what we are dealing with in Mike Duggan. Please remember this and spread the word if he ever has the nerve to run for public office in the future.
Top of pageBottom of page

Traxus
Member
Username: Traxus

Post Number: 22
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 3:39 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great just what I need.

Another excuse for the bureaucracy to up tuition.

I can hear it now “Less people paying, we obviously need more money from you”.
Top of pageBottom of page

Zephyrprocess
Member
Username: Zephyrprocess

Post Number: 126
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 10:28 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ccbatson: technically, Duggan will not be charged with any theft, because the CMS funds are considered to be three years late, i.e., the money being paid now is for training performed three years ago.
Top of pageBottom of page

Ccbatson
Member
Username: Ccbatson

Post Number: 13
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 11:02 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Technically correct, but the principle is the same...he is commiting a premeditated crime that he is pretty sure he can get away with. Legislative fixes are in the works, if they are somehow made retroactive, he will be busted (well, lose the money anyway).
Top of pageBottom of page

Llyn
Member
Username: Llyn

Post Number: 1719
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 11:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Technically correct, but the principle is the same...he is commiting a premeditated crime that he is pretty sure he can get away with.




Sorry, I don't follow this... was the DMC owed the money, and if so how is it stealing? I don't know all the ins and outs of this dispute. Seriously, explain...
Top of pageBottom of page

Dialh4hipster
Member
Username: Dialh4hipster

Post Number: 1848
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 11:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And technically is it a crime? It appears not, if in fact a legislative fix is required.

The financial workings of healthcare are very different from other industries. Just because something doesn't seem logical on the surface doesn't mean it is unusual or wrong in that field.
Top of pageBottom of page

Ccbatson
Member
Username: Ccbatson

Post Number: 16
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 11:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, proposed CMS rules have been drafted and released that address this scenario which tells us that someone in the government is awake and beginning to cry foul. I doubt that any such rule would touch Duggan unless it became the final rule before the residencies get shuttered (excluding ortho, as that is already a done deal). It is not technically a crime as the law currently stands as CMS pays for these residencies on a strange 3 year delay scenario. It is strange in that at the programs inception, it is not as if they were not payed for the first 3 years, so, I am at a loss as to the logic of this 3 year business.
Top of pageBottom of page

313_doc
Member
Username: 313_doc

Post Number: 35
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2006 - 12:25 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Where did you see the new CMS rules? Do you have a link?
Top of pageBottom of page

Ccbatson
Member
Username: Ccbatson

Post Number: 18
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2006 - 2:17 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It takes a lot of digging as the material is so voluminous, and key pieces hidden in apparently unrelated releases. Hints have been dropped, but it is not at the stage of formal proposed rules yet. Proposed rules are designated as such, and then the final rules are denoted likewise. The Federal registry is the source, their site does have a fair search engine, and for date to date information they break it down very nicely. Keywords are Federal registry, CMS (long hand), residency funding. The link to the general site is;

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/fr/br owse.html

Happy hunting....be careful, I have gotten lost for hours at a time trying to tease things out.
Top of pageBottom of page

Ash
Member
Username: Ash

Post Number: 18
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2006 - 11:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I found the following information and to my surprise it seems to say that the adopting hospitals can apply for FTE adjustment, if they are under the caps. In addition, the hospital that closed its program(s) must submit the FTE reduction statement to its fiscal intermediary within the same 60-day timeframe.

"
This policy follows the existing regulations at 42 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) 413.79(h) concerning closed hospitals and closed programs, and is intended to provide a temporary adjustment to the FTE caps of a hospital that trains displaced residents only so long as those residents are "displaced." That is, as long as the original program in which the resident trained remains closed (whether because the hospital itself is permanently closed or because the specific residency training program is closed), the adopting hospital can count the displaced FTE residents for Medicare payment purposes by virtue of a temporary FTE cap adjustment.
"

The first link below has the most relevant information.

http://questions.cms.hhs.gov/c gi-bin/cmshhs.cfg/php/enduser/ std_adp.php?p_faqid=5696&p_cre ated=1126804397&p_sid=Qb6-63ni &p_accessibility=0&p_lva=&p_sp =cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX 2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9MSZ wX3Byb2RzPTAmcF9jYXRzPSZwX3B2P SZwX2N2PSZwX3NlYXJjaF90eXBlPWF uc3dlcnMuc2VhcmNoX25sJnBfcGFnZ T0xJnBfc2VhcmNoX3RleHQ9NTY5Ng**&p_li=&p_topview=1

http://www.cms.hhs.gov/AcuteIn patientPPS/Downloads/CMS-1531- IFC.pdf
Top of pageBottom of page

Zephyrprocess
Member
Username: Zephyrprocess

Post Number: 128
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2006 - 2:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

the adopting hospitals can apply for FTE adjustment, if they are under the caps.




Unfortunately, as I understand it (subject to correction from those wiser), other local hospitals are already at their FTE caps, which is why WSU has been unable to move its programs to other local sites.
Top of pageBottom of page

Ccbatson
Member
Username: Ccbatson

Post Number: 20
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2006 - 5:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To be honest, these rules are always, and by design, dizzyingly confusing. I recall one Final rule document numbering 143 pages in which they say no less than 14 times that the premise of the rule is a bad idea and why. But, in the end, they conclude that they will proceed and finalize the very rule they seemed to have lambasted. Politics is a nasty business (that's why I try to avoid it as much as possible..unfortunately, not to decide is to decide, so we are obliged to involve ourselves even though it is so distasteful).
Top of pageBottom of page

Yvette248
Member
Username: Yvette248

Post Number: 156
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 10:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So the latest word is that Duggan is trying to implement a residency with other schools.

Question 1: After these charades, what school would actually want to be in a partnership with Duggan?

Question 2: Being that Wayne State is the only university in Detroit, which other college could he possibly be courting?
Top of pageBottom of page

Crew
Member
Username: Crew

Post Number: 1073
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 10:47 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

#1. MSU
#2. MSU

A Residency program doesn't necessarily need to be close to the actual medical school campus.
Top of pageBottom of page

Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 2221
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 10:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think I can forgive Wayne for going suburban. Rather than working to fix alleged problems, they have ran off, which is typical in this city, but not what anyone should have expected after so many decades of strong partnership in that perfect midtown health-care infrastructure.

Not only is Wayne walking out on quality residency opportunities in the city and jeopradizing the healthcare of the underclass, but they will cost the DMC and thus this struggling city hundreds or perhaps thousands of jobs. Thanks alot, Wayne! You really care about the city.
Top of pageBottom of page

Crew
Member
Username: Crew

Post Number: 1074
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 10:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

whoa whoa whoa, wait a second here.

Just because Duggan says WSU is moving to the suburbs doesn't make it true. Wayne is looking to partner with a variety of Healthcare partners since the DMC has basically kicked several departments out. The issue here is whether WSU should be tied to have an exclusive partnership with the DMC or if Wayne should be allowed to partner with other in stititions to mainatin programs the DMC no longer wishes to support. IF the DMC's strategic plan is to eliminate some programs, WSU should have the right to find other partners who want to continue those programs. WSU is not moving its whole operation to the suburbs. Some of those partner may include Henry Ford and St. John which are certainly not entirely Suburban based.
Top of pageBottom of page

Yvette248
Member
Username: Yvette248

Post Number: 158
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 11:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I don't think I can forgive Wayne for going suburban."

Ummm, can you forgive Duggan for trashing their relationship with Wayne State? I don't think any thinking person can believe that WSU is deliberately and one-sidedly giving up their operations at DMC.

Every other school has satellite operations (UofM-Dearborn, CMU-Southfield, etc.) and WSU wants to do the same. Just because they have satellite campuses in Oakland county doesn't mean they want to give up their main campus.

(Message edited by yvette248 on November 20, 2006)
Top of pageBottom of page

Crew
Member
Username: Crew

Post Number: 1075
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 11:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The DMC made a strategic decision to stop supporting Dermatology, ENT, Family Practice and Urology. Wayne State was able to find those departments a home at Oakwood and made plans to try to save those residency programs. On Friday Duggan accused WSU of taking those programs out of the DMC and trying to steal those residents. Mr. Duggan is doing one thing but sayiing something else to his employees and the media.
Top of pageBottom of page

Zephyrprocess
Member
Username: Zephyrprocess

Post Number: 130
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 12:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mackinaw--I addressed this less than two hours after you opened the "Fighting words..." thread in the fourth post:


quote:

The departments that DMC had excluded from the teaching contract extension post June 30: where did DMC expect those physicians to practice?

Since a group of physicians cannot solely sponsor a residency program, but must partner with a healthcare facility (a healthcare facility can solely sponsor a program), where would these members of the School of Medicine faculty teach medicine?




Of course, despite all this, you've admitted

quote:

I still don't get the rationale w/ the Oakwood alliance either.




Is it clearer for you now?
Top of pageBottom of page

Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 2222
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 12:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No one can be happy with any role that the DMC had in "pushing" Wayne out. But the DMC isn't the one opening an enormous facility in Troy, nor the one preparing to work with hospitals that compete with Detroit hospitals. Perhaps neither of the institutions put Detroit and the preservation of the successful alliance first, but that doesn't mean that they are equally at fault. I'm not an insider, so I only look at how this affects the city, which is about all I care about in this debate.

Yvette, I do see any incentive for Duggan to trash a relationship that is economically beneficial and which creates jobs.
Top of pageBottom of page

Susanarosa
Member
Username: Susanarosa

Post Number: 1248
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 1:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For Mackinaw:

http://www.dmc.org/locations/
Top of pageBottom of page

Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 3108
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 1:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Mackinaw... did you know that before Orchestra Place was built, that the DMC had their Headquarters/Offices in Troy?
Top of pageBottom of page

Susanarosa
Member
Username: Susanarosa

Post Number: 1249
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 1:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And that they just spent a ton of money renovating the satellite location in Madison Heights?
Top of pageBottom of page

Crew
Member
Username: Crew

Post Number: 1076
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 1:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

...and that they operate a hospital in Commerce Township, a large outpaitent facility in Novi, offices in Wyandotte, an Ambulatory Surgical Center is Waterford....
Top of pageBottom of page

Susanarosa
Member
Username: Susanarosa

Post Number: 1250
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 1:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey, at least Crew used my link!
Top of pageBottom of page

Crew
Member
Username: Crew

Post Number: 1077
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 1:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

actually I didn't, but thanks for playing "name the DMC suburban locations" many of which are in Oakland County including another large surgical center in Farmington Hills.
Top of pageBottom of page

Yvette248
Member
Username: Yvette248

Post Number: 160
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 2:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Which goes back to my previous point... every hospital AND SCHOOL recognizes the benefit of opening satellite centers - **without giving up their main campus**. Apparently Duggan wants us to believe that WSU is the only one who can't.

Come on people, this is a no-brainer.
Top of pageBottom of page

Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 2223
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 2:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well one would have to think that the entire Med School would have to move out soon, too. What point would there be in having it in midtown anymore?

The DMC is one of the largest employers in the city. The fact that health care needs to be spread across metropolitan areas, which is the only thing your links demonstrate, can not justify Wayne cutting ties with the DMC, nor does it dimish the fact that in Detroit, regardless of what goes on elsewhere, the DMC like I said is a major employer.
Top of pageBottom of page

Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 2224
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 2:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gistok-- I don't know what you mean by headquarters. I'd say half-a-dozen hospitals/institutes on a midtown campus is a pretty major inner city hq. You might be speaking about some of their corporate offices which are now on Woodward.
Top of pageBottom of page

Crew
Member
Username: Crew

Post Number: 1078
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 2:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mackinaw, Why would one have to think that the Medical School would have to move out soon too?

Virtually all of the Medical School's research and undergraduate teaching facilities will remain downtown. Wayne State still maintains medical offices on the DMC campus which they rent from the DMC. Faculty Physicians still have admitting privlidges in the DMC hospitals. If this contract isn't signed, how the residency programs are administered may change but the medical school will remain in midtown. In fact, the university will soon begin contruction on a new class room building on Canfield and is talking about a new $170 million Research building near Canfield and St. Antoine.
Top of pageBottom of page

Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 3109
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 2:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mackinaw... the President, officers, board of directors and administrative staff were located in Troy before moving to Orchestra Place. So technically Troy was the DMC HQ until they moved back to Midtown.
Top of pageBottom of page

Zephyrprocess
Member
Username: Zephyrprocess

Post Number: 131
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 6:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mackinaw--it's unfortunate that one has to keep repeating the same rebuttals to you. Again, in the "Fighting Words..." thread, I pointed out the hypocrisy of asserting that the Troy facility equates with "abandoning the city":


quote:

Why would the plans for a surgery center in Troy be evidence that WSU faculty are "abandoning the city," but the existence of MIOSH "just 3 miles" away not suggest the same about the DMC? Maybe having a presence in both the suburbs and the city is ethically viable after all.




Really now: is there any bit of Duggan's spin that you can't see through?
Top of pageBottom of page

Ccbatson
Member
Username: Ccbatson

Post Number: 22
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 10:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree that WSU SOM has no desire or intent to move to the suburbs contrary to what Mike Duggan would like you to believe. WSU is a division of WSU..is WSU moving out? Of course not. Do they (WSU) have interests throughout the metro are? You bet they do, and for a long time. If they didn't they would die a fools' death. The fact is that the DMC is forcing WSU out of the DMC, and WSU must go wherever it can to survive. HFH would be a good fit if it weren't for the fact that they already have a full Cadre of residency programs, so why would they spend a lot of money for something they already have?

Why would the DMC want to separate from WSU? A better question is why would Mike Duggan want this to happen? i think the answer is that this position is a stepping stone for him (his contract is for a little less than 3 more years). For the short term, breaking the contract frees up nearly 100 million dollars a year for the DMC that they can pump into their budget and come out smelling like a financial rose (for 3 years). Just before the end of this artificial boom, mike Duggan shakes hands and leaves, knowing that the house of cards he built will shortly collapse but be blamed on whoever follows him at the DMC. Diabolical? yes. Brilliant? also yes. I guess that makes Duggan an evil genious which sums it up pretty well for me.
Top of pageBottom of page

Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 3115
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 11:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why would he want to make himself damaged goods for political office, because that appears imminent?

All the spin in the world will do him no good if the end result is a damaged DMC and or WSU... and fewer jobs at Detroit's largest employer.

What's so surprising to me is how mum the city government has been about this. Even the City Council!
Top of pageBottom of page

Yvette248
Member
Username: Yvette248

Post Number: 168
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 11:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Looks like Jenny is going after them.....

Granholm has told her handpicked mediator that the sides must meet round-the-clock to reach an agreement -- even if she has to serve them Thanksgiving dinner.

http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll /article?AID=/20061120/NEWS99/ 61120030
Top of pageBottom of page

Ccbatson
Member
Username: Ccbatson

Post Number: 25
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 12:03 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Granholm has no real authority here. She can serve them Thanksgiving and Christmas dinner both (she will do neither), and tell them to meet 36 hours a day it will not make any difference. Notice she has made demands on the hand picked mediator, not the DMC, or Duggan. Paradoxic is the fact that this mediator is clearly biased, meaning that Granholms true intentions are not what she says they are. If she really wanted a solution, then she would have chosen an unbiased mediator.

Either WSU offers to continue the affiliation for some pittance payment (? 20 million a year, or so ?), and not pursue other affiliations as Duggan is demanding, or Duggan rescinds his demands....Which do you think will happen? If you guessed none of the above, I think you got that one right.
Top of pageBottom of page

Yvette248
Member
Username: Yvette248

Post Number: 171
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 1:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, technically, but you'd be suprised how many decisions are politically driven.
Top of pageBottom of page

Southwestmap
Member
Username: Southwestmap

Post Number: 629
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 1:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I heard that Duggan threatened doctors with firing (from the DMC) if they sign a contract with the med school. Supposedly, Chief of Pathology stood up to him and Duggan backed down from him - but no one knows about the others.
Top of pageBottom of page

Apbest
Member
Username: Apbest

Post Number: 289
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 1:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Im most concerned about Wayne moving operations to Troy instead of building downtown. Also I am concerned about the affect this will have on the city as far as decrease in medical prestige, especially as GR is a rising star and will most likely dash Detroit's hope of landing the Federal Tissue Reserve in TechTown or at least hamper it
Top of pageBottom of page

Fxfixer
Member
Username: Fxfixer

Post Number: 4
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 2:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Even if the DMC and WSU come to an agreement, the damage has already been done.

Remember, the ACGME may still pull all the residencies out of DMC and WSU. Without residencies, the national reputation of WSU and DMC drops significantly. Good luck on recruiting physicians to work here.
Top of pageBottom of page

Ccbatson
Member
Username: Ccbatson

Post Number: 29
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 10:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Who, or what is GR?

Moving operations to Troy?? You too readily believe Mike Duggan. The first choice was a building near the main campus which Duggan turned down, then they went to Troy. Here is something that I don't get....If Duggan was able to "turn down" the downtown building, shouldn't he have been able to "turn down" the Troy building? If so, he chose not to turn it down at the time the decision was made (while he still had the authority to do so). Why? and why hasn't anyone explained this apparent inconsistency?

Duggan "backing down" is most likely just a brief delay to regroup and attack again with conviction. He just does not "back down" it is just not in his nature (thus far, anyway).

If (a HUGE if) a miracle occurs and the DMC signs a contract with WSU by late December, I doubt the ACGME would still shut them down. The expense, headache, and concern for the residents short term welfare would likely outweigh their drive to carry out their threat.....that is only a guess on my part however.
Top of pageBottom of page

Zephyrprocess
Member
Username: Zephyrprocess

Post Number: 133
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 11:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Duggan never had direct authority to "turn down" the downtown facility, but his objections were registered at a time when the negotiations were less acrimonious.

Of course, he did pull as many strings as possible behind the scenes (I suspect) to thwart the Troy facility, including expediting last fall the change in the rules for obtaining a Certificate of Need for ORs.
Top of pageBottom of page

Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 3121
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 11:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Would "GR" be Grand Rapids?

Ah the ambiguity of acronyms!
Top of pageBottom of page

Ccbatson
Member
Username: Ccbatson

Post Number: 30
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 11:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Grand Rapids trumping WSU? Maybe, but UofM?? Very hard to imagine.

I see how the Troy project would have gotten off the ground as an emboldened University Medical group saw the handwriting on the wall and ventured out on their own...good for them.
Top of pageBottom of page

Ccbatson
Member
Username: Ccbatson

Post Number: 32
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 12:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does anyone know who owns the property and buildings on DMC/WSU SOM's campus. This could be a big issue if they split. Would one evict the other? If, as I suspect, DMC is the landlord, then all of the specialties (which is most of them) that have alligned themselves with WSU, under the best circumstances, might need to close up shop and start over elsewhere....where would that be? WSU would be required to affiliate with an existing hospital to set up shop. My biggest for instance is Rehab. They occupy the RIM, a self contained hospital retooled 5 years ago (but not state of the art) with something like 85 licensed beds, an outpatient facility, and administrative offices. i can not imagine where they would go.
Top of pageBottom of page

Yvette248
Member
Username: Yvette248

Post Number: 185
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 12:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I hereby retract my original post.... Jenny pulled off an 11th hour miracle.


Deal reached in WSU-DMC contract dispute
The Detroit News

A deal has been reached between the Wayne State University School of Medicine and the Detroit Medical Center over the institutions' joint medical residency program.

Gov. Jennifer Granholm and DMC and WSU representatives scheduled a news conference for 2 p.m. today to announce the agreement.

"We have a deal," Liz Boyd, Granholm's spokeswoman, said this morning.

The institutions have been squabbling over contracts that expire Dec. 31, which outline financial and organizational arrangements for 68 residency programs that serve as a training ground for WSU doctors and provide care for DMC patients.

Those patients make up a large portion of the state's Medicaid population and Wayne County's 700,000 uninsured and underinsured.

The dispute drew the attention of the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education, the body that accredits graduate medical education programs. A council representative came to town Nov. 14 to make sure the WSU-DMC residency program is meeting its educational mission.

That visit came less than a week after the institutions began negotiating with mediator David Fink, a former member of Granholm's cabinet.

Wayne State has said the DMC's increasing focus on the bottom line conflicts with the medical school's focus on research and community care. The DMC has said the medical school is abandoning Detroit by looking to set up operations in the suburbs and forming alliances with hospitals that compete with the DMC. Both said they had offered solutions the other has rejected.
Top of pageBottom of page

Ccbatson
Member
Username: Ccbatson

Post Number: 36
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 4:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I reiterate, Granholm and Duggan are not to be praised for aborting a crime, however, being consumate politicians, they are getting just that when they (well, Duggan for sure) needs to be run out of town on a rail.
Top of pageBottom of page

Yvette248
Member
Username: Yvette248

Post Number: 190
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 10:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think Granholm and Duggan are in the same league.
Top of pageBottom of page

Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 1784
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 10:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Both Duggan and Granholm were personal attorneys working for McNamara. Sort of like two peas in a pod.
Top of pageBottom of page

Ccbatson
Member
Username: Ccbatson

Post Number: 40
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 9:16 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not in the same league in terms of the hierarchy and power of their respective positions (Governor versus CEO of the DMC), But philisophically very similar.
Top of pageBottom of page

Cassie1717
Member
Username: Cassie1717

Post Number: 54
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 1:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Peas in a pod as to you, DMC, take Mike Duggan as your CEO whether you like him or not and I, the Governor, will allocate $50 million to you to pull yourself out of the red ink. Packaged deal.

Lawyers can't run health care systems. MD/MBAs or any other person with first hand patient care experience can.
Top of pageBottom of page

Ccbatson
Member
Username: Ccbatson

Post Number: 42
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 6:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Where is that 50 million going to come from given our depleted state and city economy? Those short sighted blankety blanks were on the brink of turning away nearly 100million in FEDERAL money per year just because Duggan had the bright idea that he could keep it all for himself (the DMC) at the expense of WSU....the Evil blankety blank. The credit for this averted disaster is ours/those of us with the courage to speak up, not to the architects of this attempted grand larceny (Duggan, and sadly, probably Granholm to a certain degree).
Top of pageBottom of page

Zephyrprocess
Member
Username: Zephyrprocess

Post Number: 139
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, November 24, 2006 - 1:01 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I believe that Cassie was referring to the $50 million bailout from three years ago, that has all appearances of having come with Duggan's CEO appointment as a package deal.
Top of pageBottom of page

Yvette248
Member
Username: Yvette248

Post Number: 192
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, November 24, 2006 - 10:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not in the same league as in one has class and political savvy and the other doesn't have a smackerel of either lately.
Top of pageBottom of page

Ccbatson
Member
Username: Ccbatson

Post Number: 45
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Friday, November 24, 2006 - 6:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Political savvy is not a good thing, IMO, especially if it is a tool to cover up one's true intentions. I would rather have a jerk letting me know his intentions up front, than to be fooled by charm....that is more dangerous.
Top of pageBottom of page

Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 1793
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Friday, November 24, 2006 - 6:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Neither Duggan nor Granholm have any real class or savvy. But, they'll both suffice for Metro D or Michigan. We seemingly don't expect much of either in our candidates or public serpents.
Top of pageBottom of page

Ccbatson
Member
Username: Ccbatson

Post Number: 46
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Friday, November 24, 2006 - 7:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Although I don't know that much about him, the one politician that I had some inkling of respect for was the then Governor of Minnesota...Jesse Ventura...a Libertarian who said what he meant and meant what he said....granted, he was off his rocker, but a straight forward politician would be a breath of fresh air.

Add Your Message Here
Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.