Discuss Detroit » Archives - Beginning July 2006 » Quicken/Rock might test move to downtown « Previous Next »
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Detroitman
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Post Number: 1020
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 3:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quicken/Rock might test move to downtown

November 15, 2006

BY JOHN GALLAGHER DETROIT FREE PRESS

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=2006611150404
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Lmichigan
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 3:41 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I wonder what turned him off to the idea? IMO, Compuware was the test for any big company looking for a new construction in downtown, so I wonder what scared them off?
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Jerome81
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 3:47 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hmmm....I wonder why they might only be testing...

Could it be because the housing market is in the dumps and looks to go even further down? That'd be my guess. They're wondering how the market will look in the next 5 years and even more importantly probably trying to figure out a realistic growth plan for the company. The past 5 years cannot possibly used as any sort of accurate measuring stick of long term growth.

They're just playing it safe while the market settles down a bit
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Zephyrprocess
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Post Number: 125
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 5:03 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When did Compuware commit to their move--wasn't it after their post-Y2k downturn?
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Lmichigan
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 5:20 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The economy really is a rather weak excuse in Detroit's decades-long economic downturn/downshift. Some of Detroit's downtown booms have been during some very deep economic downturns.
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Ramcharger
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Post Number: 121
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 6:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I didn’t know that Compuware rented out office space in its building. Or, is this a one time thing by Karmanos for his buddy, Dan Gilbert?
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J_stone
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Post Number: 342
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 7:19 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's time toooo LiiiiiiiIiiiiivvvvEEE!
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Itsjeff
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 7:20 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Both Farmington and Troy have 25% office vacancy rates right now. There's a lot of available space out there for dirt cheap. Any business owner would want to explore those options before committing to build new.
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Quinn
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Post Number: 1033
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 8:12 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

All in all I'd say it's a pretty cheesy thing and makes Dan Gilbert, and Rock, seem really impotent.

Here we have this big rush of publicity last winter about a possible move downtown by some awesome company. Everyone is excited...both the detroit-lovers and the Rock workers. Nearly a whole year goes by where, even given the opportunity of a mandatory company wide meeting at the fox that could've turned into a great announcement or at least a parade of rock-ies marching down woodward to look at potential sites, nothing has happened. Now this.

COME ON GET SOME BALLS...if you're "breaking up" with us then do it already. Enough of this exploratory bullshit. Detroit is the severely wounded, fragile boyfriend and could use a dose of reality, and not be led around by the nose by a narcissistic, to-weak-to-be-honest girlfriend (reverse this example if you like...I'm honestly not transferring my own feelings from past relationships).

My uncle had a saying that is apropos: Shit or get off the pot.
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Genesyxx
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 8:17 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I wonder how long it will take for them to TEST downtown Detroit. Another year, maybe?
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Kenp
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Post Number: 127
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 8:27 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

He has got Detroit right were he wants them, he is a business man. He will keep negotiating till he gets an offer he cant refuse. And until then there will be a couple hundred new workers in Detroit.
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Rjlj
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 8:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe there is more than meets the eye. Maybe current land owners have not been cooperative to sell in order to make room for a new building. I think we know who they might be. Those who think their land is worth much more than it really is, and those who say they are dedicated to downtown but let their properties rot.
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Bobj
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 8:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There could be a lot of things going on here, from public posturing to actually moving this slow to see how his employees react. I work at a big corp, in some ways, it is refreshing to see a corporate leader actually act like he cares about his employees.
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Livernoisyard
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 9:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There are plenty of good reasons for Rock not to commit too early. First and foremost, maybe its employees do not want to commute and work in Detroit. Another is that there is a lot of available alternative locations in the burbs or in Cleveland.

Collins & Aikman Corp. in Southfield yesterday decided that it no longer desired to stay in business and would sell off its assets in whole or in part. Numerous other major Tier Ones will be history before Rock's leases expire in over three years.

Rock is also much more politically conservative than most and probably does not want to relocate in a city that could easily be under receivership before the end of this decade.
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Quinn
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 9:10 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I found Karmano's leadership and commanding decision(s) refreshing.

I understand your sentiment though...I'm just tired of waiting (it's like a microcosym of the Detroit Renaissance..."just keep waiting...")
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3rdworldcity
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 10:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My guess is that Rock/Quicken is experiencing massive losses.

It's in the business of selling U.S. dollars, along with 1000's of other mortgage lenders. Yet, it has to have the highest overhead in the country.

It sells most if not all the residential loans it makes to Countrywide. It does not retain servicing, which provides most lenders w/ a steady income, even during down housing markets as we're now experiencing.

The mortgage brokers and mortgage bankers I know say it's just a question of time before Gilbert stops feeding the kitty and the whole thing collapses.
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Mrjoshua
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 11:17 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Countrywide just laid off 2,500 of its staff 3 weeks ago. It is likely that they and probably Rock, are bloated organizations that must readjust to a now smaller mortgage market. And I'm confident that Dan Gilbert has been given an earful about a potential move to downtown Detroit. Livonia is a dump, but the people who live and work there think differently. You are dealing with very different personalities and perceptions when it comes to an issue as large as this one.
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Wazootyman
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 11:50 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You know what, let's be perfectly honest here, Mrjoshua. Detroit is a dump. Livonia is a very desirable suburban community with one of the highest office populations in the region. Tell me about the poverty rate and show me the burned out and abandoned houses and buildings in Livonia, and then we can have a legitimate debate.

I love Detroit as much as the next guy, but fuck off with the constant Livonia bashing, it's completely unnecessary.
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Swingline
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 11:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This isn't the announcement that everybody was hoping for, but it is still positive. Slow and steady progress is better than none at all. The Compuware building with its location and amenities will be a great place for the Rock Financial folks to work and perfect for displaying the benefits of working downtown.

I knew that Compuware had extra space, but I didn't realize that it had 100K sq ft.
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Mrjoshua
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 12:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sounds like I hit a nerve Wazoo. If you're referring to a Detroit neighborhood like Brightmoor, I would agree, it is a dump. But if you're referring to downtown Detroit, you are misinformed and display your ignorance. Livonia is just another ugly white trash suburb with no character. If it's where you desire to live, then so be it. But cut the crap rhetoric in generalizing the entirety of Detroit as being below your standards. One of it's 20's era buildings has more character than the entirety of the suburb you're defending.
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Detroitstar
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 12:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm not a fan of Livonia, but I have to chime in and say that it certainly is not a dump. It might not be a model for urban living, or have certain qualities that you desire, but that hardly makes it a dump.
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Dds
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 12:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

One of it's 20's era buildings has more character than the entirety of the suburb you're defending.




Especially the abandoned ones from the 20's that have been vacant for decades. You know, the ones with the crackheads. Now that's character.
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Llyn
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 12:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It seems to me like we might look at Rock's position from a little different angle.

Say you're Dan Gilbert and you really are considering moving downtown, but you know you'll have employees with Wazoo's reaction. Maybe you want to show some of the employees what it's like working downtown and get them interested. Then it's easier to convince others.

It's a little problematic for me to just automatically assume the worst of DanRockInc.
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Llyn
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 12:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

PS

Since earlier discussion on Rock's "potential collapse" I've been paying attention a little more... and Dan Gilbert keeps buying sports teams, other companies (recently), etc.

Either he is in complete denial (always a possibility with someone as optimistic as he is), or things are not quite the bleak landscape painted by some.
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Detroitbill
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 12:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I dont really feel you can even compare Livonia or Detroit,, your looking at a suburban office environment, which is probably good for those who want to work in a area like that,, lots of housing , strip malls etc,,, and thats fine if thats how you like to live..,
versus Downtown Detroit, where there is urban living,, city atmosphere, and all things associated with it,, Two totally different types of people tend to like either place. Many people in Livonia dont care for Downtown, many unfortunately have no idea or interest in whats going on there other than attending a sporting event and maybe attending a restaurant,,, and most people Downtown have no use for a suburb like Livonia as they do not relate to a suburban mentality. Calling either a dump is incorrect in either case,, It really boils down to what you prefer in life . We really have to work on getting to know our city/suburbs much better,, there seems to be alot of ignorance on both sides unfortunately.. we are all one metro area,
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Jdkeepsmiling
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 12:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

People always tend to forget that a company like Rock is designed to go through these housing slumps. They made a ton of money selling ARM's in the past few years. Now they have a ready made database of customers who now need to lock in at a fixed rate. Also remember that Rock/Quicken is growing very quickly in the online segment of mortgage lending. Although the pie is shrinking, they are getting a bigger and bigger slice. I do not think that there will be a sudden implosion as some do.
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Rjlj
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 12:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Rock's 'potential collapse'" is based on rumor and speculation. I would understand their financials first before making assumptions of listening to bystanders.
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Yvette248
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 1:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Compuware has lots of empty space available in its building. This seems like a win/win scenario. Rock doesn't have to do the major investment, and Karmanos gets a little help paying the bills.
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3rdworldcity
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 1:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rock, being private, and not selling loans into the secondary market as do the vast majority of mortgage lenders, there's no way to see and therefore judge their financials.

Clearly, anyone who makes decisions based on most of the stuff one reads on this forum, is doing so recklessly. (That's not a criticism of the Forum.) I think people on this forum merely share their own views and opinions and those of people they trust who may know more about a topic than they do. It's up to us to sort them out.

And, i think most people do a pretty good job of it.
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Wazootyman
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 1:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think there will be a collapse of Rock Financial/Quicken Loans, but I wouldn't be surprised if they shrink. They go through a lot of volume in loans, and while they don't service them, there are seemingly infinite numbers of people who need to get out of debt and refinance their mortgage to help do so. My friend who works there frequently puts in 12 hour days, so there's certainly enough business, at least right now.

As for you, Mrjoshua, you're the one generalizing. At no point did I state that the entire city of Detroit is below my standards. In fact, without question I prefer spending a night out downtown rather than in the 'burbs. I'm not trying to call out Detroit - but rather point out how asinine it is to make the comparison you're making. I'm sure Detroit would sell Rock on downtown quickly by calling their present location a dump in comparison.

Calling an entire city "white trash" isn't the slightest bit ignorant, is it?
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Wilus1mj
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 1:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Isn't the advantage of building their own space is gaining a big advertisement icon for ROCK FINANCIAL who throws tons of money at publicity for Pistons game/tv commericals.

Leasing in Compuware kind of defeats the purpose.
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3rdworldcity
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 2:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For renting 100,000 sq. ft., maybe Karmanos will rename it the "Rock Financial Building."
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Izzadore
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 2:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with Wilus1mj.

It would make more sense to place their 200 or so workers in another location and put up an 'elegant' ROCK sign on the front of the building.
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Matt_the_deuce
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 2:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One Kennedy Square.....
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Quinn
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 2:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What's with the Livonia Lovin'? This is a DetroitYes! Forum.

Livonia is a dump in my opinion. Row after row of tin-box housing with mega-strip-mall developments up the ying-yang and acres of parking for days. No architecturally significant buildings and little or no culture (they used to show more artsy movies at laurel park place...).

My two cents worth...

LIVONIA IS A DUMP. Ok there I feel better ;P
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Izzadore
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 2:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm all for One Kennedy Square but they'd be better off in an older yet well kept building - complete with radiant heat... Maybe one of the older buildings on the Woodward drag.
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Dsmith
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 3:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think this has more to do with Gilbert being aware of the possible mortgage origination implosion than Detroit. They had a great run but IMO the party that the mortgage origination biz is, is about over.
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Detroitplanner
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 3:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quin, visit Rosedale Gardens, a subdivision developed by the same folks who developed Rosedale Park in Detroit; around the same time. Find a tin-can in that neighborhood.

I'd agree that the mortgage industry is definitely heading into a slowdown. I hope it don't implode, Rock/Quicken still employ a lot of people in our region; and we can't stand to get hit many more times.
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Mrjoshua
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 3:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"You know what, let's be perfectly honest here, Mrjoshua. Detroit is a dump."

"At no point did I state that the entire city of Detroit is below my standards."

Well Wazoo, I guess that dumps are not below your standards? I'm confused.

"My two cents worth...

LIVONIA IS A DUMP."

Thank you Quinn.
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Quinn
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Post Number: 1036
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 4:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok...new home in three color/material choices of Tan-Siding/Tan-Brick, Dark-Tan-Siding/Dark-Tan-Brick, Light-Tan-Siding/Dark-Tan-Brick with white drywall for days, oak bannisters and an overgrown "crystal" chandelier hanging just inside a huge arched window over the front door.

Oh and two garage doors right in the front.

And a riding lawn mower.

Probably a waterfall in the backyard too...

Hey, everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

t
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Yvette248
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 5:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Isn't the advantage of building their own space is gaining a big advertisement icon for ROCK FINANCIAL..."


As with every business decision, you have to weigh the costs against the potential profits. Rock Financial already has name recognition in Detroit, so getting into a multi-million dollar real estate investment that may or may not be a good thing just for getting your name up in lights seems like a pretty lame business decision. There has to be other factors to make this a good deal for Gilbert.
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Dabirch
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 5:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Clearly, anyone who makes decisions based on most of the stuff one reads on this forum, is doing so recklessly. (That's not a criticism of the Forum.) I think people on this forum merely share their own views and opinions and those of people they trust who may know more about a topic than they do. It's up to us to sort them out.

And, i think most people do a pretty good job of it.




Except for that itsjeff guy. He can't sort out anything.

I actually like to call him itssheep...
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Wazootyman
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 6:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Other than a name on a building, a visible headquarters for Rock probably doesn't make much difference. For one thing, they're almost entirely a phone-based operation. It would probably be a rare exception that the "mortgage banker" selling the loan would ever meet the lendee. Plus, they already have some exposure on the building right off of I-275. It's no skyscraper, but a whole lot of people pass by it on a daily basis.

Mrjoshua, the sensible side says to just let this drop, but I have to ask: What is your problem? Did something bad happen to you in Livonia? Does the concept of suburbia just tear you apart? So often we talk about regional cooperation on this board - is it only for when it solely benefits the city of Detroit?

I did say "Detroit is a dump". It was a mockery of what you said. Is Livonia utopia? Not at all. I live here, but it's a matter of practicality above anything else.

Just tone down the Livonia bashing, it's childish.
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Motownman
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 6:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How big is their current location?
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Crawford
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 8:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How about we ask the opinions of the thousands of Detroiters who have been victimized by Rock's predatory lending. These bloodsuckers should be tarred and feathered. No tax breaks or incentives should be given to these criminals.

Rock's business model comes straight from El Diablo. I say keep the trash in Livonia, where it belongs.
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Rjlj
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Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 9:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have never heard of anyone holding a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to do business with Rock. They are a business just like any other, it is your free will if you want to do business with them.
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Viziondetroit
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Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2006 - 8:29 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ROCK is not phone based, Quicken is. I worked for Rock a few years back (03-04) and they were outgrowing the building @ 12 and Orchard Lake then. They were leasing all kinds of space in the building, on all floors just to keep up with business.

Rock Financial is a come in and meet your banker operation so they need something customer and employee friendly as far as parking and accessibility.

Quicken is outgrowing their HQ in Livonia, if I am not mistaken, they bought out the Ford lease on the upper floor of the building so that they could have all of the Quicken people in one building instead of next to them in another building as they had.

When I worked for them, they were adding 60-80 people a month to the sales force and that number has jumped in that short time.

They have an office downtown, i have no clue if it's just a branch or what.

Last time I checked, they still owned their own title company called Title source which is another reason for them to have a customer friendly facility. Title Source customers aren't always Rock/Quicken customers they can handle pretty much anyone's mortgage, again customer service has to be preserved and having it some place without good parking etc makes no sense.

I agree with them taking their time, but don't keep making all kinds of announcements to see the crowd ooh and ahh... shut the hell up and make it happen.

You didn't see this many announcements when in 2003 they filed an application with the OTS to open Rock Bank <-- still waiting on that to open.
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Erikd
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Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 1:19 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Rock Financial already has name recognition in Detroit, so getting into a multi-million dollar real estate investment that may or may not be a good thing just for getting your name up in lights seems like a pretty lame business decision.





quote:

Other than a name on a building, a visible headquarters for Rock probably doesn't make much difference.




Wazootyman and Yvette248,

You are greatly underestimating the benefits that Rock Financial would reap from building a signature downtown HQ.
-----------------

Compuware was a very large and successful company when they were in Farmington Hills, but they were not very well known to the average person in Metro Detroit. The decision to build a signature downtown building generated massive media coverage, and made Compuware a household name in Metro Detroit.

Comerica bank has been in Detroit for over 150 years, and Comerica Tower is the second-tallest building in the state of Michigan. Comerica has been a local household name for years, but they still spent $30 million just to put their name on Comerica Park.
------------

Rock Financial spends millions on advertising every year, but so does the competition. Local television and radio is filled with mortgage company commercials... We hear commercials from Capital Mortgage, Patriot Financial, Ditech.com, and Rock Financial all day long, and they all sound the same. The average person in metro Detroit couldn't tell you the difference from one to another.
-------------

It is hard to put an exact dollar amount on the benefits that Rock Financial would get from building a signature downtown HQ, because no amount of money spent on advertising can compare.

If Rock Financial builds a signature downtown HQ, there will be years of front-page news following every step of the project. In addition to all of the free publicity, construction of a signature downtown HQ would immediately put Rock Financial in the same league as Compuware, Comerica, and the Big 3, in terms of public recognition and trust. The goodwill generated from building a downtown HQ would also help offset the negative public reaction to all of the recent foreclosures in the region.
-------------

Establishing name recognition, goodwill, trust, and reputation with the public is extremely important to Rock Financial. RF spends millions every year towards this goal, and the construction of a signature downtown HQ is one of the best PR/publicity opportunities they will get.
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Yvette248
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Post Number: 152
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 8:30 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"The decision to build a signature downtown building generated massive media coverage, and made Compuware a household name in Metro Detroit."


Rock's sponsorship of the Pistons have already made them a household name in Detroit, they don't need a building for that. Further, as Compuware sells enterprise software, "household recognition" doesn't help their sales. Lucrative business contracts with the city lured Compuware downtown.
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Jasoncw
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Username: Jasoncw

Post Number: 288
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 4:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think in the longterm, building their own building downtown would give them more for their money for advertising than those annoying commercials.
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3rdworldcity
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Username: 3rdworldcity

Post Number: 342
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, November 17, 2006 - 5:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yvette248: You are right. Good, factual post.
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Llyn
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Username: Llyn

Post Number: 1720
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 11:56 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rock and Quicken have several major facilities around the region. Livonia is only one of them. There's also a major facility in Troy, and another one somewhere else. (Southfield? Auburn Hills? I don't remember.)

It might make some sense to consolidate all these operations in one building - increasing communications and saving on travel and redundancies.

So no matter where it is, I think it's a good possibility they will move somewhere.

If they consolidate somewhere, they're going to need a lot of space. It might make sense to get their own building instead of trying to fit into an existing structure. And if you're going to build a new building anyhow, why not do it downtown... despite some negatives with taxes and potential employee response? Space is available at the right price, there would be tax incentives, and exposure will be higher downtown. (And regardless of how well they are already known, isn't that a good thing... especially with people from out of town attending concerts, sporting events, business functions, conventions, etc.?) All this besides the good will that will be generated by moving downtown and the pluses of an improving Detroit urban core.
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Viziondetroit
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Username: Viziondetroit

Post Number: 934
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 2:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Auburn Hills on University Drive is the other Rock Office, they used to have one in Dearborn, and there is on Downtown next to Opus One.
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East_detroit
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Username: East_detroit

Post Number: 811
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 8:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Lucrative business contracts with the city" is not the reason Compuware moved downtown.
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3rdworldcity
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Username: 3rdworldcity

Post Number: 345
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 9:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why in the world would they do it then?

Certainly not to create a real estate investment. With so much vacant space in the building, Compuware's per sq ft occupancy cost must be very high.
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Llyn
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Username: Llyn

Post Number: 1723
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2006 - 2:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Some people actually like downtown and want to see the city do well. Karmanos is one of them, and certainly he has a lot of pull at CWare.

And they did get contracts (lucrative or not) with GM and the DMC I believe... and both of these entities I think would want CWare downtown (GM for improving the environment and the DMC). Plus some execs at GM are civic boosters.

And there were tax breaks and other incentives from a monetary standpoint.
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3rdworldcity
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Username: 3rdworldcity

Post Number: 348
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2006 - 2:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I like downtown Detroit. I'd like to see downtown do well. I have an investment in downtown and have for many years, so there's some self-intgerest talking there.

However, no number of contracts w/ the City, GM or DMC would justify such an investment by CW.

When Karmanos initially announced he was moving downtown, he stated unequivocally ...NO TAX BREAKS ARE SOUGHT NOR WOULD ANY BE ACCEPTED. Didn't take long to smarten up. W/o taxpayer subsidies not even Karmanos would do the deal.

You are right on. Karmanos is a Detroit Booster and w/ his dough and control over the company, he made it happen. (That kind of passion is God's way of telling someone they have way too much money.) I'm not so sure it was a good move for his shareholders, financially (clearly, it was not), but he did make a very strong statement in support of Detroit's possible come-back. More power to him, I guess.

Does Dan Gilbert impress you as the same kind of guy?
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_sj_
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Username: _sj_

Post Number: 1594
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 11:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Compuware announced the move way before the post y2k downturn. (They say 1996, but the plans were not finalized until I believe 98 or 99) The ground breaking ceremony actually we held on the same day they missed Wall Street expectations and their stock continued to plummet. Leading to rumors that the buildings would not get built. Later the plans for a waterfront building on RiverEast was scrapped.

Compuware was not a well known name anywhere even in the software business leading to a nice embarrassing meeting with Andy Grove and Petey. Hence the Dean Cameron, B Movie Star, ads with the tropical islands and the Carolina Hurricane.
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Miketoronto
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Username: Miketoronto

Post Number: 353
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 12:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lets hope they move downtown.

Toronto did a study on companies moving out of downtown and in.

One of the reason some companies would consider not moving downtown, is because the employee's would have to much fun working downtown and use their breaks more then being stuck in a suburban office park. :-)

These people I think would grow to love working downtown. You have everything at your fingertips.
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Yvette248
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Username: Yvette248

Post Number: 166
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 10:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

CW really did a good job of making their building employee friendly. Even though many suburbanites had serious reservations about moving downtown, most loved working down there because of all the amenities. I know I did.

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