Discuss Detroit » Archives - Beginning July 2006 » Police chase, 3 killed « Previous Next »
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Eastside
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Username: Eastside

Post Number: 947
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 11:42 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This shit is totally unacceptable...Troopers should just get out of the COD since it's clear they have the wrong mentality for policing the inner city.
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Eastside
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Username: Eastside

Post Number: 948
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Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 11:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20061111/U PDATE/611110414
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Innovator
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Username: Innovator

Post Number: 42
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 11:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is awful. I hope they lock the Jeep driver up for a long time. This sort of mentality is ridiculous and deadly.
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Fnemecek
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Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 2065
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 11:48 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

This shit is totally unacceptable...Troopers should just get out of the COD since it's clear they have the wrong mentality for policing the inner city.



Was it the State Trooper's car that crashed into the Mercedes?

No, it was the guy they were chasing. It's his actions that were totally unacceptable and not the Troopers.
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Eastside
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Username: Eastside

Post Number: 949
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 11:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Over a simple traffic violation, Troopers make a decision to "go there"...they are the ones whose judgement must be held responsible, because they are the ones responsible for keeping you and I safe. As a result of their flawed judgement, your mother and my brother are dead.
Not your mother you say? Then feel lucky...because defacto it is.
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Fnemecek
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Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 2066
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 12:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Over a simple traffic violation, Troopers make a decision to "go there"...



Yes, that's there job. Their judgement wasn't flawed.

The guy driving the Jeep had a responsiblity to pull over, but he didn't. His was the judgement that was flawed. He and he alone is the one who is responsible for those 4 people being killed.
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Ramcharger
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Username: Ramcharger

Post Number: 114
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 12:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The initial stop was for a traffic violation. We don’t know why the driver of the Jeep chose to run. As far as the troopers knew he had pounds of cocaine or a dead body in that car. What I will never understand is what makes people believe they can out run a cop.
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Fnemecek
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Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 2067
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 12:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Amen, do folks not watch "Cops"?

Trying to outrun the police is a bad idea, no matter what.
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1459
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 12:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

just gives them more of an excuse to beat the shit out of you when they catch you (NOT limited to L.A. btw)
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Eastside
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Username: Eastside

Post Number: 950
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 12:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LMAO..."As far as the troopers knew"....right, without evidence of a felony, they had every reason to speculate the moon.
Of course...the ultimate indictment against your hick argument...is that if this type of situation every did affect your family, you would be the first person to blame the "Cops"
Dare I say you would be in a lawyers office before your tears dried?
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Spongebob
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Username: Spongebob

Post Number: 3
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 12:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Speaking as a retired police officer. MSP should not have been conducting a chase, in that neighborhood with the weather conditions last night. They should have called off the chase.
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Salvadordelmundo
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Username: Salvadordelmundo

Post Number: 62
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 1:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is '2nd-degree murder' the most that the Jeep driver can be charged with? I hope those sentences are served CONSECUTIVELY, and not CONCURRENTLY. There's no reason for that driver to get out of jail before he's a senile old man.
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Janesback
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Username: Janesback

Post Number: 136
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 1:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

point blank, when a cop pulls you over, you are NOT to flee, thats the law.

Dont defend the lawbreaker in the jeep. When a cop tells you to STOP, or put your hands in the air, YOU DO IT, thats the law, unless of course certain people think they are above the law?
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Eastside
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Username: Eastside

Post Number: 951
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Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 1:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"point blank, when a cop pulls you over, you are NOT to flee, thats the law."

Thanks Jane, we all feel a little more educated.
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Janesback
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Username: Janesback

Post Number: 137
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 2:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This shit is totally unacceptable...Troopers should just get
------------------------------ --
OK, so whats' the problem Eastside.....seems you are the one who started this post and indicated unfairness to the individual who broke the law by fleeing?

Am I wrong?
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 1883
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 2:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's sad when someone not involved in a situation has to die. The reality is that pursuing a suspect is a judgement call by the police. If they don't pursue and the culprits rob and kill an old lady four hours later, then people would be saying, "Why didn't the cops pursue them when they had a chance?"

Even if the cops didn't pursue in this case, wouldn't the suspects be concerned that the cops called for backup, so they'd be speeding anyway, trying to get to there destination. There's no way of knowing whether or not they wouldn't have run into somebody anyway.

Some judgement calls made by the police will always be questionable, this situation is one of them. However, overall I want to believe that the majority of police officers, the majority of the time, make the right decisions when it comes to protecting the public.
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Eastside
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Username: Eastside

Post Number: 952
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Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 2:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I like this comment from the Free Press.

"the cops were on a "Project Safe Streets" detail? How safe did they make the streets for the three dead people who were not involved? Greenfield and 6 Mile is a neighborhood - not the wild friggin west."
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Fnemecek
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Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 2068
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 2:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

How safe did they make the streets for the three dead people who were not involved?



They arrested the person responsible for the whole thing, didn't they?
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 10870
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Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 3:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So, according to Eastside, this guy driving the Jeep who was speeding and drunk apparently was the victim here? That the police should have let his drunk ass continue on his way? THIS is why Detroit has many of the problems that it does. Because it's own damn citizens believe guys like this should have been let go.

Is it a shame that 3 innocent people died? Damn right it is. Yet I'm personally glad that there are officers out there doing everything in their power to get assholes like the guy in the Jeep off the road. Hopefully this dickhead nevers sees freedom anytime within my lifetime.
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Warriorfan
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Username: Warriorfan

Post Number: 567
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 3:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Right, it is the police who are at fault, it is never the criminal's fault. These police should just pack up and leave, Detroit doesn't need anymore police and can get along just fine with losing even MORE police coverage. These police are worse than Hitler. Eastside, is there a defense fund for the criminal that we can donate to? He is also the victim here as he wouldn't have crashed his car and injured himself had the Michigan State gestapo not decided to pull him over. Will these troopers face charges or shall we organize a posse to string them up?
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Eric
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Username: Eric

Post Number: 586
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 3:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Over a simple traffic violation, Troopers make a decision to "go there"...

No, it was the criminal who decided to "go there" by trying to flee. BTW what mentality should the cops have, one like yours that allows criminals to operate freely?

(Message edited by eric on November 11, 2006)
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 1713
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 3:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wouldn't that let-them-go mentality be akin to having AA for criminals in the "inner city?"
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Flybydon
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Username: Flybydon

Post Number: 48
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Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 3:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It’s called lack of respect and Respect begins at home.
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Dds
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Username: Dds

Post Number: 16
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Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 3:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yup, the cops should have let this guy go. He was an upstanding citizen, with lots of respect for the law...

Rodney Goss' Prison Record
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Eastside
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Username: Eastside

Post Number: 953
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 4:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"THIS is why Detroit has many of the problems that it does. Because it's own damn citizens believe guys like this should have been let go."

LMAO. Well, one of those citizens is a retired cop, the only cop to give his opinion here, Spongebob said..."MSP should not have been conducting a chase, in that neighborhood with the weather conditions last night. They should have called off the chase."
I'm not going to assume a retired cop holds that opinion because he thinks the scum in the jeep deserved to get away. Neither should anyone be a dumbass and assume I sympathize with the driver of the jeep. I think the retired officer holds his opinion because he understands the gravity of the decision to give chase or not. The public counts on police officers to make correct life and death decisions....they certainly cant count on crazed outlaws like this xxxx to make sound judgements (like pulling over)...when you do, things like three dead happen.

"Is it a shame that 3 innocent people died? Damn right it is."
Yea, right...thats the most fu***** disingenuous thing I've read yet. According to Supersport, the three deceased did us all a public service for sacrificing their lives to stop the scum in the jeep...who needed to be pursued and apprehended at ALL costs.
As far as sound arguments go...if my own mother were among the deceased, my argument don't change.
Yours would...boy.
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1953
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Username: 1953

Post Number: 1111
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Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 4:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If police didn't choose to chase now and again, all anyone would have to do to avoid arrest would be start running. Is there a warrant for your arrest or something? You shouldn't run from the police.

(Message edited by 1953 on November 11, 2006)
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1953
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Username: 1953

Post Number: 1113
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Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 4:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ouch. You hurt my feelings.

[Sobs]

Wait...actually, I couldn't care less.
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Johnnny5
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Username: Johnnny5

Post Number: 400
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 5:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eastside,
Do you have details of this accident that are not in the article? I did not see any mention of how long the chase was, what the weather conditions were or that the speeds were dangerously excessive. I can kind of see where you're coming from, but blaming these officers is uncalled for considering how little you know about the incident.
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Warriorfan
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Username: Warriorfan

Post Number: 568
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 5:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It sounds like Eastside has an ax to grind with police, I've never seen anyone express such vile hatred towards police over an ACCIDENT that WASN'T EVEN CAUSED by the police. Let's look at the facts:

1) It was the criminal who chose to flee.

2) It was the criminal who chose to drive recklessly and at excessive speeds.

3) It was the criminal who smashed into the Mercedes.

4) It was the police who were attempting to apprehend him in accordance with the law and MSP procedure.


If you don't like it, take it up with the MSP brass who write the pursuit policy. I hope the families of the dead citizens sue Rodney Goss and take all of his worldly possessions, but the police did absolutely nothing wrong if their pursuit policy specifically does not prohibit this type of chase.
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Mcpd1300
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Username: Mcpd1300

Post Number: 132
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Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 6:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

MSP generally does a pretty good job of backing off a pursuit. The police cannot control how fast a suspect flees, only how fast their pursuit goes. So even if MSP cancelled the pursuit, what's to say the suspect would have stopped running? There have been numerous instances where a pursuit was initiated and when conditions got hazardous, the police shut down their lights and sirens and the suspect continued to run and STILL caused a crash.

It's a tragedy that three innocent people were killed in this incident. However, don't blame the police for doing their job, blame the parole absconder for not doing his job.
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1460
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Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 6:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

or the prosecutors for not doing theirs (plea, no contest, plea)
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Shave
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Username: Shave

Post Number: 1237
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Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 7:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh for crying out lout! The guy only had a couple (five) NON-VIOLENT offenses. To read about this guy in the newspaper (and from some of the responses on this thread) you would think the poor man had some really serious violent offenses. Gimme a break!

I'm with Eastside on this one. Sound judgment was thrown completely to the wolves in an effort to capture a petty criminal.
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Ray1936
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Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 911
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Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 7:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey, shit happens, dont'cha know?
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Shave
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Username: Shave

Post Number: 1238
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Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 7:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ray, you are just crying out for attention. So you chose to make a stupid statement while hoping that someone would find it both provocative and offensive?

(Message edited by Shave on November 11, 2006)
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Jimaz
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Username: Jimaz

Post Number: 992
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Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 7:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't know about this particular case but other cities have been backing off from high-speed chases just to avoid such collateral damage.

Other strategies might be used, such as tracking the suspect from helicopters while coordinating barricades and spike strips by radio.

Are those techniques ever used in Detroit? I don't know. I'm new here.
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Ravine
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Username: Ravine

Post Number: 413
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Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 7:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The only thing I learned here is what "uttering and publishing" is.
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Jimaz
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Username: Jimaz

Post Number: 993
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Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 8:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Who's "uttering and publishing" what?

There's another high-tech technique of sending a bot under a car to give it an ESD pulse to disable its computer but that never seemed practical to me.
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Warriorfan
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Username: Warriorfan

Post Number: 570
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Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 11:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

There's another high-tech technique of sending a bot under a car to give it an ESD pulse to disable its computer but that never seemed practical to me.




That bot wouldn't get three feet before it fell into a gaping pothole.
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Jimaz
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Username: Jimaz

Post Number: 1000
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Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 11:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

That bot wouldn't get three feet before it fell into a gaping pothole.


Like I said, not practical.
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Dougw
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Username: Dougw

Post Number: 1412
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 11:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

The only thing I learned here is what "uttering and publishing" is.



So... what is it? (Jimaz -- it's listed on the OTIS link above.)

I notice the OTIS pages don't seem to list how much jail time the offender actually served for each sentence, unless I'm missing something.

As a general rule, I'd assume that officers are supposed to pursue anyone who takes off from a traffic violation, unless there are some extreme circumstances dictating that they should call it off. What are those circumstances, anyway? Spongebob?
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Jimaz
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Post Number: 1001
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Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 11:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A more practical way to disable an automotive computer would be to send a command via wireless (associate the plate number with the VIN) but then you'd have the whole Big Brother conspiracy thing to deal with. <sigh>
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Jimaz
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Username: Jimaz

Post Number: 1002
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Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 11:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dougw, thanks, I'm no longer clueless. :-)
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Dougw
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Username: Dougw

Post Number: 1414
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Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 11:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The disabler sounds good to me, Jimaz. So to recap, we have:

Best Option: Automotive Disabler
So-So Option: Engage in dangerous pursuits
Worst Option: Don't pursue anybody
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Jimaz
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Username: Jimaz

Post Number: 1003
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Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 11:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Uttering and publishing
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Jimaz
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Username: Jimaz

Post Number: 1004
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Posted on Sunday, November 12, 2006 - 12:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The disabler option opens up the possibility of hacking automotive PROMs to disable the disabler option. Kind of like blackmarket bulletproof vests for the perps. This is like the song that never ends. lol
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Dougw
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Username: Dougw

Post Number: 1415
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Posted on Sunday, November 12, 2006 - 12:26 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey, at least that won't work with stolen cars.
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Eastside
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Username: Eastside

Post Number: 955
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Posted on Sunday, November 12, 2006 - 3:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20061112/NEW S01/611120584
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Dougw
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Username: Dougw

Post Number: 1416
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Posted on Sunday, November 12, 2006 - 1:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

In 2002, the Detroit Police Department revised its police manual and stated officers must have a strong reason, such as a suspected felony, to engage in a high-speed auto chase. The policy does not apply to State Police, whose internal procedures could not be determined Saturday.



I guess this answers my earlier question.
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Viziondetroit
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Username: Viziondetroit

Post Number: 898
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Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 3:29 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I went to high school with onr of the guys who was killed, Eric Flowers. We attended Redford together class of '97

This is the 2nd person I know of in the past 7 days killed in an accident. I had a friend killed Monday night as she left Home Depot for lunch. Man... this has been a long week for me
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Pam
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Username: Pam

Post Number: 648
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Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 5:12 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

This is the 2nd person I know of in the past 7 days killed in an accident




Sorry for your losses.
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Nainrouge
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Username: Nainrouge

Post Number: 96
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 10:33 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why does it always seem like the driver in these situations walks away from the crash and the innocent bystanders get killed?
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One_shot
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Post Number: 301
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Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 10:37 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My view is that if it was just a simple traffic violation why can't they put out a call with the description of the vehicle along with the plate # and try to catch him later unexpectedly without a chase. As long as someone is being chased they are gonna run so that is why I partially hold officers liable when something like this happens. And I am TOTALLY not for the idea of cops not chasing anyone and the crooks having the mentality that they will get away with something if they run. You would think that with cameras and helicopters there would be a better way to catch someone.
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Hit24sqft
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Username: Hit24sqft

Post Number: 17
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Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 10:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"bad boy bad boy, whatcha gonna do when the cops get you, bad boy bad boy..."
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Dougw
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Post Number: 1418
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Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 11:13 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Free Press: Deaths put chases in spotlight
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Janesback
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Username: Janesback

Post Number: 138
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Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 11:13 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why does it always seem like the driver in these situations walks away from the crash and the innocent bystanders get killed?
------------------------------ ------

I've noticed the same. That as well as druken drivers. I don't understand why the most accidents involved with a driver under the influence will always manage to walk away from the accident and the innocent people in the other car always get the worst.

I am saddened at the loss , but again, its the law. When you get pulled over by the police, you are to oblige him by NOT RESISTING and comply with his requests. I don't understand why there are certain people who think the law doesn't apply to them........Thanks, Jane
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Tkshreve
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Username: Tkshreve

Post Number: 25
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Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 11:34 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If a suspect runs and manages to elude police, then they will do it again, and again, and again. They will tell all of their felon-fu(kface-friends about it, and next thing you know, it is common practice to run from the police, knowing that you might get away. The police of the Metropolitan area have a reputation to uphold. It is actually very admirable that they even attempt to uphold their reputation, after seeing the city strip its own police department "down to the wire".

After all, they shouldv'e because St. Louis took over the highest crime city this year. Right?

I am from the far east side, and tell you what. Ever since the 5th precinct closed, I don't see patrol cars over there anymore. I don't even know where the next closest department is.

On the bright side, there will be less police pursuits on the east side. Woo Hoo.

(to be taken with a grain of sarcasm)
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Tkshreve
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Post Number: 26
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Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 11:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They were right to pursue. Tragedies happen. People get cancer, others die in car accidents, some kill themselves when no one will hear their cries. This is life. I sincerely grieve for the families that have lost in this terrible accident. It is tragic to lose someone so quickly. Unfortunately, it is the real world where long life is a gift, not a given.
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Eastside
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Username: Eastside

Post Number: 961
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Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 12:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I am saddened at the loss , BUT..."

"I sincerely grieve for the families that have lost in this terrible accident, UNFORTUNATELY..."

--------------
"you can point your fucking fingers, and say "that's the bad guy." So, what dat make you? Good? You're not good; you just know how to hide. Howda lie."
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_sj_
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Post Number: 1574
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 12:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cops pull you over, you flee as you flee you hit another car and kill three people. Police did not chase. Does that make those three peoples lives any different, the only difference is the missing lawsuit.
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Ray1936
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Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 913
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 12:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Last night Detroit Police responded to a call of a man pointing something at passing cars on I-696. As they approached, the man in his car fled. Police did not pursue him. The idiot drove onto I-696 the WRONG WAY and hit a car head on, killing that innocent driver.

See? Damned if you do, damned if you don't. What say you now, all you second-guessers?
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Janesback
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Username: Janesback

Post Number: 139
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 1:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How sad. Its a no win situation, but the law is the law. When a person is pulled over, its the law to comply with the officer as to show proof of insurance and a valid drivers license. Those who , for some reason, think they are above the law and choose not to comply, will pay for their choice. Sad thing though, so do many innocent citizens who had nothing to do with it

If you give these thugs an inch, they will take a mile. They are thugs, point blank and I support any action or means necessary to apprehend them.

The driver of the Jeep is a murderer and should be held accountable. The black mother should sue him, not the police who stopped him. Eastside, next time you're the victim of a violent crime, remember your opinion of the cops..........
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_sj_
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Username: _sj_

Post Number: 1580
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 1:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We need to demand tougher laws and penalties on driving infractions period. Lately all is focused only on Drunk Driving.
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Tkshreve
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Username: Tkshreve

Post Number: 27
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 1:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

{"you can point your fucking fingers, and say "that's the bad guy." So, what dat make you? Good? You're not good; you just know how to hide. Howda lie}

You think we lie about our condolences to the families?

You're a selfish brat for putting comments like that up in order to support your opinion.
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Fnemecek
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Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 2070
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 3:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

You're a selfish brat for putting comments like that up in order to support your opinion.



Amen. All of that and first-class idiot as well.
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Eastside
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Username: Eastside

Post Number: 962
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 4:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, if Eastside plays the role of the selfish, iconoclastic brat...then you can play the role of the sexually repressed conformist...with the perpetual "what part of no DONT you understand" sign stuck on the refrigerator.
Deal?
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 3071
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 4:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is William_X posting here under a new name?
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Ray1936
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Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 914
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 4:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Y'know, if you people only knew how many cars alongside of you every day were being driven by people with no/suspended/revoked driver's licenses, you'd probably put your car on blocks.
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Janesback
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Username: Janesback

Post Number: 140
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 4:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ray, thats why we, the taxpayer and drivers have to pay so much more in insurance. When one of those uninsured motorists kill or hurt some one, guess who picks up the hospital bill when it cant be paid because of uninsured motorists.

Also, you pay higher taxes on your home because the hospitals get their share from your prop taxes. Win or lose, we all pay.......
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 1729
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 4:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wisconsin doesn't require liability insurance unless one is reapplying after being suspended/revoked (financial responsibility). Still, there are about 20% there without any liability insurance whatsoever (unless its laws have been amended somewhat recently). If an uninsured causes damage or injury, Wisconsin can prevent the driver from getting his license back for up to 26 years.

So, many there have no insurance or licenses. Think about that when driving there. Also 13% of Wisconsin adults are alcoholics--the highest in the US, with MI not far behind...
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Tkshreve
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Username: Tkshreve

Post Number: 28
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 5:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

----- Well, if Eastside plays the role of the selfish, iconoclastic brat...then you can play the role of the sexually repressed conformist...with the perpetual "what part of no DONT you understand" sign stuck on the refrigerator.
Deal? -----

Do you get kicks from talking in riddles? Try to pick a topic and stay on it. You don't make any sense. And you seem even more unstable the more you rant and rave your way off topic. However, thanks for alerting the forum about a maniac that killed three innocent people. I somehow knew though there would still be opposing sides to the issue. For most of us, it is pretty cut and dry. The suspect was out of line, the cops acted accordingly to apprehend the driver. He hit a car and killed the passengers inside. You act like he wasn't going to tear off across town with cops APB'ing his vehicle ten seconds after they stopped the pursuit. The suspect was a cornered animal, and did what a cornered animal would do.

Much like yourself, you behave like a cornered animal also Eastside. You say (and probably do) unethically stupid things to try and win and carry on.

Instead, you embarrass yourself, and pay for it by sacrificing your name and reputation. (here at least)
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Eastside
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Username: Eastside

Post Number: 963
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 5:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

...it's a deal then.
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Fnemecek
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Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 2072
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 6:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

BTW - according to an article in this morning's Freep - the "excessive speeds" that the troopers were travelling at was a whopping 45 m.p.h.

Oh, and they were also a 1/4 mile away from the suspect at the time of the collision.

Eastside: it's time for you to act like a grown up and apologize to those troopers.
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Shark
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Username: Shark

Post Number: 255
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 8:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20061114/NEW S99/61114037

Tell it to Tinsley-Talabi.
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321brian
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Username: 321brian

Post Number: 201
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 9:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I see she wants "tighter control of police".

Perhaps she should focus on the real problem and that is people running away from the cops.

Maybe passing some sort of resolution that urges following the law and not running away from police should be next.

She's a joke.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 1734
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 9:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe a resolution making Detroit a "No Arrest Zone" is coming next. That'll boost its sagging population.
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Yvette248
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Username: Yvette248

Post Number: 125
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 10:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Since when is it the fault of police when a criminal smashes into another car breaking the law while fleeing arrest? Where in the h&ll is our minds when we punish the police instead of the criminal?? How about making it MANDATORY LIFE IN PRISON for anyone who kills someone while fleeing the police? You can not handcuff police officers saying, "Well as soon as a criminal gets in a car, he's home free."

WAKE THE H&LL UP PEOPLE!!!!
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Fnemecek
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Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 2074
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 9:22 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I guess we can add Ms. Tinsley-Talabi to the list of people who owe us an apology.
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 10878
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 10:59 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So are most Detroiters happy that these carjackers escaped? They only smacked up a few cars and people only suffered minor injuries. Let's all hope and pray for the carjackers good health so that they can live to carjack another day. Fuckin' pathetic how people will revolt against the law and supporting letting criminals have the upper hand. How long before the DPD's OWN decision on the street is "Fuck it, let them steal the cars, what do we care?"

http://www.clickondetroit.com/ news/10324733/detail.html
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Ray1936
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Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 920
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 12:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Too many Detroiters are like the idiots in LA who were cheering OJ's white bronco ten years ago.
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Eastside
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Username: Eastside

Post Number: 967
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 12:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Carjacking is a violent felony punishable by up to life in prison. If those guys were indeed the carjackers, they need to be taken off the street immediately...by vehicle pursuit or gunshots.
The IMMEDIATE safety of the innocent public should always be the officers first concern...not the thought of "letting criminals have the upper hand."

(Message edited by Eastside on November 15, 2006)
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Fnemecek
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Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 2075
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 3:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

The IMMEDIATE safety of the innocent public should always be the officers first concern...not the thought of "letting criminals have the upper hand."



Which probably explains why the Troopers didn't go any faster than 45 m.p.h. and why they were almost a 1/4 mile away from the collision.
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Fnemecek
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Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 2076
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 3:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

So are most Detroiters happy that these carjackers escaped? They only smacked up a few cars and people only suffered minor injuries. Let's all hope and pray for the carjackers good health so that they can live to carjack another day.



I'm sure Alberta Tinsley-Talabi will introduce a Testimonial Resolution in their honor.
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Patrick
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Username: Patrick

Post Number: 3656
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 3:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What about when that asshat in Benton Harbor crashed his bike after being chased by cops. Sure, blame the cops. What about when that asshole had a heart attack when he was busted bys security for stealing meat? Yep, you got it…blame the cops.
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Tkshreve
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Username: Tkshreve

Post Number: 30
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 4:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fnemechek....

Where did it say the cops were 1/4 mile behind, going 45 mph. I believe it, but i just haven't read it.

Also, I assume that the chase was videotaped with the camera in the police car, right? DPD and someone from the City Offices most likely reviewed that tape to see if the police squad car acted according to chase procedures. I guarantee if they didn't, there would be quite an uproar about it.

The simple fact remains....... Being in the wrong place at the wrong time will happen. Nothing you or I can do about it. That's why they call it an "accident".
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Fnemecek
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Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 2078
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 4:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Fnemecek....

Where did it say the cops were 1/4 mile behind, going 45 mph. I believe it, but i just haven't read it.



It was in the Freep the other day.
http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll /article?AID=/20061114/NEWS01/ 611140342/1003/NEWS01

quote:

Also, I assume that the chase was videotaped with the camera in the police car, right? DPD and someone from the City Offices most likely reviewed that tape to see if the police squad car acted according to chase procedures.



I don't know if DPD reviewed it or not, but MSP definitely reviewed the video as well as the radio calls that were also recorded.
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Eastside
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Username: Eastside

Post Number: 968
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 4:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

...here is another case where the MSP reviewed their own video, and after a long investigation, declared the trooper shot in self defense.
After a judge reviewed the tape, he said "I don't see anything remotely close to self defense."

http://www.woodtv.com/global/s tory.asp?s=5559314

This story was also reviewed on 7 action news.
The point?
Don't jump on the first MSP "spin" news release.
The truth will emerge.
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Tkshreve
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Username: Tkshreve

Post Number: 31
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 5:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The truth is .....

That crook will go to jail for many many years. It is not enough, but it's something.

Eastside....... how on earth can you condone police officers not chasing a fleeing suspect?

How do you tell yourself...... It's alright, they'll get him next time.

Of all those cases of "we had him, but he was set free, and now look what he's done!"

How can you say he should not have been chased?

Perhaps you don't comprehend the example set by not chasing!

"collateral" damage happens.
Sorry!

(Message edited by Tkshreve on November 15, 2006)
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Fnemecek
Member
Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 2080
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 6:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

The point?
Don't jump on the first MSP "spin" news release.
The truth will emerge.



I love it. MSP releases a report and it's called "spin".

Eastside post with nothing but a wanton disregard for truth and logic - and someone how folks are supposed take him seriously.

Sad. Very, very sad.
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Warriorfan
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Username: Warriorfan

Post Number: 572
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 6:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The City Council should introduce a resolution that bans police from carrying guns. Guns just make a bad situation worse, and besides, there is always the risk of shooting an innocent person.

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