  French777 Member Username: French777 Post Number: 9 Registered: 10-2006 |
is there any more news on COBO hall expansion? | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 118 Registered: 11-2005 |
To quote a frequent DYer: Tear that schitt down! | ||
Taj920 Member Username: Taj920 Post Number: 147 Registered: 01-2004 |
The only time you hear about the Cobo expansion is during the auto show when the car dealer association says the "sky is falling" and that public subisidies in the billions are needed to "save" the show. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4639 Registered: 10-2003 |
That's about the gist of it. I can think of few of the older convention centers in this country that their respective cities don't argue that their centers need to be expanded. I'm not saying that Cobo doesn't need expansion, but it's obviously very low on the city's list (who definitely can't pay for it on their own), and low on the region's list, as well, as Patterson given the chance would call for a total move of Cobo to the suburbs before he'd ever think of his county pitching in to expand Cobo. | ||
Erikd Member Username: Erikd Post Number: 756 Registered: 10-2003 |
The city of Detroit and Mike Ilitch will have to make a decision about the fate of the JLA very soon. The JLA will either be renovated, or the Red Wings will move to a new arena. This decision will have a huge impact on any possible expansion of Cobo, so don't expect anything to happen with Cobo until the fate of the JLA is determined. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4640 Registered: 10-2003 |
I still kind of doubt we'll hear anything much about an expansion even if the Joe is demoed at its current location. This will open up the easiest option for Cobo to expand, but I think that's all that will come of it this decade, but who really knows? I don't see the city or region supporting an expansion anytime soon unless: 1. The NAIAS seriously threatens to move to another convention hall in another city. 2. A yet-to-announced private investor(s) comes into the picture offering to split the costs of building a new expansion. Both seem unlikely at the moment, but who knows? | ||
Reetz12 Member Username: Reetz12 Post Number: 95 Registered: 09-2005 |
We will probably hear a decision by the end of the year to build a new Arena behind the Fox Theater, and then we will go through a year of land acuistion/permits/drawings and we wouldn't see construction start until Jan of '08 then we are looking at a 2 year duration of construction, with the Red Wings playing in the New Ilitch Ice Area for the November 2010 season. Agreeing with LMich nothing is going to happen this decade for cobo. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 3068 Registered: 08-2004 |
I was watching the new version of THIS OLD HOUSE on PBS last Thursday. They were in Boston, and as they always do, went off on a tangent on local developments. Their detour was Boston's new Museum of Modern Art, which was cantilevered over Boston Harbor. I mean the building actually was suspended partway over the harbor, with a huge wall of glass (in a 17,000 sq. ft. room) giving folks the feeling of floating over the water (sort of like the People Mover between Cobo and the river). That got me to thinking about Cobo.... instead of tearing up all the loading docks, moving roadways, relocating People Mover tracks, etc., why don't they just build the Cobo expansion on top of the existing building... and cantilever it over the river... say 50-100 ft., and cantilever it over the existing roadways and loading docks on the western side of Cobo (although there you could put support beams). If JLA gets demo'ed, they could use that spot to build a parking structure to replace the lost rooftop parking. They could put support beams on the riverfront walkways (they wouldn't have to be thicker than the People Mover beams). The worst that the riverfront parks would have is a few beams, and maybe some shadows from the Cobo overhang 75 feet up. Granted some would say that this couldn't work because boats could ram the building. But isn't the water depth near Cobo too shallow for a freighter to ram the building? And besides, if it were cantilevered 50-100 feet out, it would be at least 75 feet above the waterway anyway. The worst scenario I could think of is a tall ship ramming the building. With a million sq. ft. exhibition hall above the existing building, they would still have the existing 700,000+ sq. ft. of space at ground (and below) level, and wouldn't even have to tear down Cobo Arena, nor rip out that curved drive down to Atwater next to it. Not relocating roadways and People Mover track would really save money in the long run. And not having to buy additional land would also save some money. And besides, with them building a new million sq. ft. hall on top, they would still be able to use much of the existing hall during construction. Of course, structural engineers might disagree with me on this one. But it certainly would be awesome for conventioneers to come to Detroit and experience a million sq. ft. hall with the riverfront side as a huge wall of glass and experience that "floating above the river" feeling (without alcohol!). P.S. I know they aren't going to do squat without financing... (Message edited by Gistok on November 13, 2006) | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1886 Registered: 07-2004 |
Here's a less radical thought, Gistok. Bust out the walls of the second floor and put in escalators to lead people to the second floor ballrooms. Use the ballrooms for additional space for the auto show. Just a cheaper suggestion. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 3074 Registered: 08-2004 |
Interestingly enough Royce, the section of Cobo where the ballrooms are (and the adjacent ceramic tiled hallways that have all the charm of gas station restrooms) was the part of Cobo that was never renovated. IIRC, CAY wanted another $25 million to redo the riverfront section of Cobo (including the riverfront facade), but somehow the financing was never approved. | ||
Ramcharger Member Username: Ramcharger Post Number: 116 Registered: 05-2006 |
Mayor Young wanted to expand Cobo south, over the river, instead of north, over Larned St., for just the reasons you mention. The Army Corp. of Engineers nixed the idea. They don’t want anything obstructing clear passage of the waterway. I don’t think the height makes any difference. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 1919 Registered: 10-2003 |
Why not? Because none of those solutions is cheap. And they would be a royal pain in the ass to design. I would be hesitant to put my seal on those drawings!
Suddenly, everyone is a designer. :-) | ||
French777 Member Username: French777 Post Number: 31 Registered: 10-2006 |
YEAH your right | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 3098 Registered: 08-2004 |
Ramcharger, the Army Corps of Engineers nixed the idea of putting beams INTO the water due to swift currents, etc. There would have been lots of impact studies. What I was proposing was basically the same thing that Matty Moroun was trying to get away with in his 2nd bridge span next to the Ambassador Bridge. He wanted to build a 2nd bridge with the towers on either riverbank, and not in the water like the existing bridge. No foundations in the river means no long drawn out environment impact studies and minimal Army Corp. involvement. And for some of our archair quarterbacks... it's always easier to criticize others ideas than to come up with your own, isn't it? (Message edited by Gistok on November 18, 2006) | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 377 Registered: 04-2006 |
There are things that can be done to improve things for the NAIAS and keep Cobo mostly as it is. Parts of Cobo are not well utilized or utilized for entirely the wrong things. For example: - A multi-tiered display area for several of the smaller automakers could be placed in Cobo Arena if the space was better utilized. Last time I was there they had a hot dog cart, some slot racing games, and a couple of radio stations. Hardly well used at all. - The riverfront ballrooms could be utilized for display space as well. These are now used for private parties. - What to do for the private parties?? Well the Casinos will be open soon with plenty of convention space. In addition, Ford Events could take place at Ford Field, and GM events could take place at the Ren Cen. Other improvements I would make would include the conversion of the riverwalk level to nicer eateries or bars as respites for conventioneers or as destinations for riverwalkers. I would also like to see the Eastern JLA upper level plaza expanded and linked to the sports hall of fame to improve pedestrian circulation downtown. Now if I only had a few million...... Maybe I can ask that Eastside lotto winner??? | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 378 Registered: 04-2006 |
While its true the Army Corp would be no longer involved with the NEPA process, do you really think that US DOT, EPA, Community Groups, the Cities of Detroit and Windsor, MDOT, SEMCOG, and Canada would allow something like that built without a long environmental process??? I doubt it. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 3099 Registered: 08-2004 |
Even if they don't go "over" the water, they could cantilever over the riverfront walk. What with the existing Cobo exhibition halls being about 250 feet away from the waters edge (the ballrooms and hallways and riverwalk are between them)... if they built on top of Cobo, with an overhang to the waters edge, and to the west (where JLA is), they could probably come up with a contiguous 1 million square ft. all on 1 level. Granted, one of the big issues would be... can the existing building support such a weight? | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 388 Registered: 04-2006 |
According to the Brookings Institute, the expansion of convention centers is a folly. Space Available: The Realities of Convention Centers as an Economic Development Strategy. http://www.brookings.edu/metro /pubs/20050117_conventioncente rs.pdf |
