  Navin_parker Member Username: Navin_parker Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2006 |
Since the Caple piece by ESPN that aired Scott Martin and Peter Zeiler from the DEGC discussing there hopes for the stadium has anyone heard anything further on the status of this project?? I'm curious baseball season is over now so what's the latest word? | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 599 Registered: 02-2006 |
It's going to be saved and remade for minor league baseball. | ||
Matt Member Username: Matt Post Number: 1121 Registered: 10-2003 |
Not entirely true. As things are planned, most of the stadium will be torn down and the field will remain intact. | ||
Llyn Member Username: Llyn Post Number: 1681 Registered: 06-2004 |
And more for kids, little league, etc, I believe. Not for minor league baseball. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 602 Registered: 02-2006 |
It was a joke...haha. Since Caple's piece will change nothing, I thought it would be funny to insinuate that it had, and now all is rosy and the stadium will be preserved. | ||
1953 Member Username: 1953 Post Number: 1076 Registered: 12-2004 |
By the way - what happened to Peter Zeiler? I cant seem to contact him. He wont return my calls. | ||
Cman710 Member Username: Cman710 Post Number: 12 Registered: 07-2006 |
Similar "preservation" plans have been suggested for what is now Yankee stadium once the new stadium is built. While preserving the field of a stadium is something, the structure is what is worth preserving. | ||
Navin_parker Member Username: Navin_parker Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2006 |
From what I've read Peter Zeiler is the main guy on the project Corktown Reps Mckay and Martin have very little to do with the plan just whats left of the field if anything. Sure would be nice if there were some details....why is the whole thing such a secret in the neighborhood? George Jackson just said today the stadium would be gone by years end. Then they will see if the preservation plan will work. Doesn't sound to promising to me?? Who got the demo contract??? plus why is there still talk that Ilitch will place the hockey arena there because of the freeway access and his wife's casino just up the road. I smell a rotten egg here....details anyone?? Does anyone sense smoke and mirrors going down at the corner. What a wasted asset and does anyone think that Ilitch is going to allow the City to stop paying him to mow the lawn for a cool half million without a fight. He will push hard to take all the money he can until the 30 year lease runs out between the Tigers and the City next July. If you do a FOIA request through the City Law Department you'll see who the true benefactor continues to be. | ||
Kathleen Member Username: Kathleen Post Number: 1672 Registered: 10-2003 |
I've been down to the Stadium about 4 times in the last 3 months and have walked around it slowly, taking photos of the various features, signs, and views from all angles. And I still have a few shots left to take. Given that there is no specific date and demolition could start anytime, I recommend that folks visit the Corner one last time to see the Stadium while they still can!!! I recommend a visit with your family and friends to share the memories of the past and take some new photos. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 714 Registered: 11-2003 |
I thought the city was going to wait for demolition until it had sold off everything it could from the interior. Selling of the seats, signs, etc. was supposed to pay for at least a big chunk of the demolition. How can the city possibly have millions set aside to tear it down before an auction starts? Contractors don't get paid by IOU's. Unless maybe a scrap dealer has pre-bought all the steel structure? | ||
Navin_parker Member Username: Navin_parker Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2006 |
How do we even know this is a done deal...has a deal with a developer been signed I know of people that would offer the City millions in cash for the property with or without the stadium. Does the City need cash enough to consider these offers it might be wise if they did at least take a listen. I think Jackson and Kilpatrick are misleading the public they may have a private hidden agenda. They may believe the Corktown residents are so happy to get ride of the stadium they can tell them anything until there ready to do what they what they really want with the site. I've also heard rumors that the DEGC Zeiler for one has considered a plan to develop the area into a china town type area (like SF) to rival mexican town and greek town while bringing night life, low end retail and traffic to the corktown area. | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 3221 Registered: 10-2003 |
"How do we even know this is a done deal..." Navin Parker, welcome to the forum, but if you have some factual information to share on this project, please do so. We are all ears. However if you are going simply spread unsubstantiated innuendos, please take them elsewhere. You have asked some provocative questions but offered nothing in substance. Rumors mean nothing. Put up some facts and stop spreading wild stories. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 2049 Registered: 12-2004 |
Did he mean the end of this year? Highly doubtful. There are only 8 weeks left in 2006. Even if they started demolition today and worked around the clock, they would be hard pressed to get the building down in little amount of time. | ||
Urbanoutdoors Member Username: Urbanoutdoors Post Number: 66 Registered: 11-2005 |
There is no developer for any plan so it will take much longer if they went through with what was proposed. Second how long did it take for work on the book Cadillac to start and and why is it so different for tiger stadium. Third I think many corktown residents would be highly opposed to illitch having anymore involvement in the area than he already has had in years past.... I know I for one would. Fourth with so many loose ends and nothing definite, of course there is a hidden agenda to some extent. Fifth the main thing Kwame wants is the stadium gone then he can say funding didn't come through and explore other options for the land. Sixth I really don't think the city wants corktown and surrounding areas informed because again too many loose ends-ex: No developer, no demolisher, plus no evidence that the area could support the plan that is being proposed. The type of retail proposed would take much more than corktown and woodbridge to make it viable for any plan such as this so in all there is nothing for sure except the city wants the stadium gone or at least altered. | ||
Histeric Member Username: Histeric Post Number: 757 Registered: 10-2003 |
This thread sounds eerily reminiscent of a recent message on the board of the Detroit Preservation Coalition – a whole lot of speculation and innuendo (not to mention slander) and no real facts. I suspect it emanates from one Peter Comstock Riley of Michigan Trumbull LLC, a trust fund baby who is crying over the fact that the city didn’t give him what he wanted. If it is Peter, I would merely point out the obvious. The Tigers are never returning to The Corner and the Illitches (who control whether Minor League comes to Detroit) are never going to allow competition so close to Comerica Park. I am tempted to ignore the whole thing, as I usually treat such attacks, but in the interest of honest dialogue, I offer myself as the sacrificial lamb to answer any and all questions related to the topic. Keep in mind, the city has signed on to A CONCEPTUAL plan, proposed by the Greater Corktown Development Corporation. GCDC is a forty plus year old non profit, community based development organization founded by Father Clement Kern, with a board of directors drawn in large part, from the residents of the community. The conceptual plan presented to the city was informed by a seven year struggle to ensure the neighborhood voice was heard in the decision making process and a series of stakeholder meetings which resulted in Corktown’s bottom line…..a preserved field and mixed use development on the site. If there was any breaking news to report, you can be sure you would hear about it. Unfortunately, a project of this magnitude and complexity takes a great deal of time and effort and the people responsible are going about the business of putting the pieces together. So sorry that they don’t issue daily reports for you arm chair quarterbacks, but again, there is a whole lot of work to be done. If you really care about the future of this important historical site, you should exhibit a little faith. So bring it on. I will respond to any and all respectful questions. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10847 Registered: 10-2003 |
Will a hockey arena be built there? Will Hockeytown and Cheli's run shuttles to it? | ||
Urbanoutdoors Member Username: Urbanoutdoors Post Number: 68 Registered: 11-2005 |
I personally have no problem with the plan and feel that something is better than nothing at the same time the way it was proposed and put out in the media is that it was going to be a quick process. In reality these things do take time as I was pointing out with the book cadillac. As for facts on retail, normal retail rent would be 700,000 to 950,000 thousand dollars for 30,000 sq ft. Meaning that if just corktown supported it with its roughly 2000 residents it would mean they would have to spend roughly 4000 a piece in order to make it viable for any retail business. If midtown supported the retail to the number would be cut in half. and say the bar frequenters from outside the city put up 25 percent of profits made which is a reasonable thought. That sill leaves corktown residents providing at least 1000 dollars a piece to make the business work. So I understand that the city has signed a conceptual agreement and if they can find a way to make it work I am pleased with the plan. I hope it does, but there is still no developer which leaves speculation in the realm of possibility. I do wish that the plan preserved more of the stadium but I believe it should be preserved to some extent. I also feel that a demolition of that magnitude will be pretty hard to carry out without traipsing machinery and debris across the whole field. Conceptual agreements are great, I just want people to take more things into consideration than concepts. Keep in mind there are thousands of these for this site when the stadium finally is demolished will that agreement stand the test of time or will we have a new hockey arena there. So yes some of this may be speculation. I would just like a few more definites on the table before I fully jump on the band wagon. | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 3269 Registered: 10-2003 |
As for the ^ "traipsing machinery and debris across the whole field," satellite pictures reveal that the field is not is that good shape anyway. Even as it is, one would think that as a part of the historic deconstruction of the stadium, the turf would be one of the items they would sell. I'd bet a lot of people would like to have a piece of it for their backyards. [Remembering scenes of people swiping chunks of the turf when swarming the field in '84]. Navin Parker, you stated on a related thread that, "Scott [Martin] was never even in Tiger Stadium according to him till this past March". Sorry but I have photographic evidence to the contrary, so it raises a question about your assertion. Since you display some negativity about the current plan, what would you like to see done with Tiger Stadium and how could it realistically be achieved? Hey, I would like to see the Tigers play there, but since that isn't going to happen and you have told me to dream on regarding the current plan which I like, what is your dream? | ||
Navin_parker Member Username: Navin_parker Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2006 |
Lowell, I apologize about my mis information on Scott Martin and his Tiger Stadium travels I guess he forgot. I was only going by what he told me during the March tour of the stadium he and I were on. I also remember so City guy named Rottach saying the only plan he had seen lately for the stadium was a shopping center with a hockey rink in the middle of it. Who knows whats really going to happen. Me personally I've always thoght the stadium should have been used regularly for every sport and community event under the son and I'm not speaking professionally (only) there are and were many things that Ilitch has no control over that could and should go on in the ballpark. It is no surprise that baseball purists and fans across the country see it as the perfect spot for Minor League Baseball. I should tell you to inform SCOTT MARTIN that he is wrong about ILITCH having the power to veto Minor League ball at that Stadium or anu other he only has veto power if it is a affililated team with MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL. 8 Independent leagues exsist and he can not stop any of THOSE interested team owner from RELOCATING to Tiger Stadium BECAUSE the RULES to not apply to the INDY leagues but the Mayor of Detroit can and has. This reckless behavior has cost the City and Corktown badly needed revenue the past 7 years while plans feel through or took more time than hoped. In short what a wasted asset! Dreams die hard but I feel mine lives as long as the stadium stands because there is no quicker action that can be taken than just opening the gates of Tiger Stadium and letting the people who attend spend dollars while using some good old fashion common sense. Would there be work that needed to be done you bet but I'm ready to roll up my selves and go to work I hope you'll join me if that day ever comes. | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 3271 Registered: 10-2003 |
Hey, I would like to see your dream happen too. I worked with the Tiger Stadium fan club and shared the hurt and bitterness when the efforts failed. But time and reality have moved on and I see the current conceptual plan as at least an effort to preserve some to that great heritage while aiding the great positive rise of Corktown. Since you do your homework, I will grant that you correct about the legal limitations of Ilitch in blocking minor league teams, however his influence is so great with city hall that I am sure that will trump any effort to bring an independent. "Big dogs eat first." and his contributions to the development of downtown Detroit are paying dividends whether anyone likes it or not. Reality bites. It is time to move as painful as that sounds and this plan sure beats a Walmart or cineplex. | ||
Taj920 Member Username: Taj920 Post Number: 148 Registered: 01-2004 |
Nobody is going to come to Tiger Stadium to see an independent minor league game, especially when you can get into Comerica for a $10 ticket to see the real thing. As for saving a portion of a field for a mixed-use new development, what's the point? Unless you invest money into manicuring the site on a regular basis, it's going to look like any other baseball field in Detroit or the suburbs. | ||
Urbanoutdoors Member Username: Urbanoutdoors Post Number: 70 Registered: 11-2005 |
I will roll up my sleaves and be right with you Navin. I will say even though Illitch has no veto power over minor league baseball. With all of his historic real estate being used as bargaining chips he has at least some influence on public policy. | ||
Urbanoutdoors Member Username: Urbanoutdoors Post Number: 71 Registered: 11-2005 |
Trust me there are a lot more people that still have a special sentiment behind tiger stadium me included that would even pay 20 dollars a person to see minor league ball than go into the mall park in Illitch village. | ||
Dds Member Username: Dds Post Number: 9 Registered: 10-2006 |
The primary issue is not how many people would actually show up. First and foremost is there an owner willing to compete in the dwindling market of SE Michigan? Only in NYC and Chicago are the markets big enough to support both Major and Minor league teams, and Chicago's team is an hour train ride west of town. Does anyone remember the Detroit Vipers? By 2001 they were lucky to get 300 people into the Palace. Tiger Stadium was not good enough for professional baseball. Major or Minor league. A Minor league team cannot take on that kind of overhead that it would cost to repair/update/upkeep before selling a ticket. I would prefer city tax dollars go to keeping Historic Fort Wayne preserved. | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 2918 Registered: 10-2003 |
Keeping the stadium as a professional baseball park seems to be poor use for the space. An unaffiliated minor league ballclub might play there, what maybe 40X a year tops? Associated revenue generated via parking and restaurants and memorabilia stores would be tiny. Remember the baseball-related retail around the stadium back when it hosted a MLB team was spotty at best ... it is unreasonable to imagine that an unaffiliated team would generate more than a fraction of that business. Further, consider the negligible impact Comerica Park has had on ITS surrounding area in terms of new retail: with the exception of a handful of bars and a couple of restaurants that didn't already exist, in 7 years what else has popped up there? Corktown specificly and the near CBD generally ALREADY has plenty of bars and a fair number of restaurants ... other stuff is needed. Seems to me the proposed plan (keep the field as a park, keep touches of the stadium as a nod to history, adaptive reuse some and build new retail and residential and allow private infill development of clearcut parking surrounding the stadium) at least attempts to address these issues (a neighborhood green space, increasinging residential and building density and adding the capability for additional retail). Of course there are big questions about there actually being a market for such a development AND the devil is in the details but at least the proposed plan touches all the bases. | ||
Dds Member Username: Dds Post Number: 10 Registered: 10-2006 |
Well said, Rustic. There is also the misguided notion that revival of Detroit via entertainment (casinos, sports, bars, restaurants, etc.) will take place just like the rebirth of Vegas. | ||
Llyn Member Username: Llyn Post Number: 1697 Registered: 06-2004 |
And again, well said. | ||
Histeric Member Username: Histeric Post Number: 758 Registered: 10-2003 |
Navin_Parker. You need to get the wax out of your ears. It appears you hear what you want to hear because SM never said he hadn't been in the stadium until the tour you joined him on. He may have said he hadn't been in the facility in a while but I can assure you, he lives two blocks away and attended at least a dozen games a year when the Tigers were there. You may have heard him say he had never PAID for a ticket to Comerica Park, since he was boycotting Illitch establishments until the city and Illitch agreed to allow Corktown's plan to move forward. Thankfully, that agreement came in time to attend a few games during this season's excitement. So you aren't PCR after all. Just another one of his "associates" who doesn't live in the neighborhood and couldn't really care less about the thriving neighborhood Corktown has become. Your inability to see clearly is what gives preservationists a bad name. Signed Histeric Preservationist | ||
Histeric Member Username: Histeric Post Number: 759 Registered: 10-2003 |
BTW - Lowell is correct that even if the Illitch family doesn't have technical control of whether minor league comes to Detroit, they still have practical control and NP and PCR are battling windmills while Corktown has taken a more realistic approach which much to the chagrin of PCR and NP, is bearing fruit. | ||
Mongo Member Username: Mongo Post Number: 4 Registered: 10-2006 |
Old tiger stadium is too far gone to be worth saving it. Ever get stuck behind one of those beams, it sucked. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10860 Registered: 10-2003 |
Detroit Swat was having sniper practice on the field at Tiger Stadium on A&E tonight. | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 623 Registered: 11-2003 |
The deterioration of the stadium since 2000 precludes as a practical matter any minor league team from ever being successful there. The amount of peeling paint, vandalized or broken seats, non functioning electrical and plumbing systems, and volume of dirt and grime requires a capital investment of many millions of dollars before the place could host games. Assuming the city agreed to lease the place, what entity has the financial ability to make such an investment? If they tried to field a team there without making sufficient repairs and upgrades, attendance would dwindle very quickly after the initial nostalgia seekers came to one or two games. On a long term basis, spectators would not keep attending games at a decrepit dump, even a dump with as much history and cool as Tiger Stadium. So the bottom line is that tens of millions of dollars would be needed to make a minor league team a success at Michigan and Trumbull. No independent league team organization has the financial ability to make it work. That is why it is best that the city look to something other than baseball for the site. The GCDC plan seeks to implement the kind of mixed use development that has the most potential for promoting the economic and community growth that is needed in this urban neighborhood. Tiger Stadium had a gracious send-off. It can live on in a small way through a creative program to salvage artifacts and through a community ballfield. The city needs to pursue this plan with all deliberate speed. The revitalization of Corktown and the North Corktown neighborhoods can set an example of how improvement in the quality of life in Detroit's neighborhoods, as opposed to the CBD, can be accomplished. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 730 Registered: 11-2003 |
Mongo-- I like being the resident grammar nitpicker here, so I'll point out that a "beam" is a horizontal member of a building, not a vertical one. The things that blocked the view at Tiger Stadium are columns. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 2064 Registered: 12-2004 |
Okay - that's just cool as hell. |
