  Billpdx Member Username: Billpdx Post Number: 13 Registered: 05-2006 |
I recently accepted a job in downtown Detroit, and am in the process of looking for a place to live. The current favorite is Plymouth. It seems like a stand-alone town instead of a typical suburb. I like the downtown a lot, the housing is nice, and well, we have two young kids. I'm flying into town next week to look at some homes there. However, my wife and I were cruising a Detroit real estate site tonight for fun, and WOW! There are some beautiful houses for sale in the city. Big ones. I drove through Palmer Woods when I was in town a couple months ago, so I am somewhat familiar with that area, but are there any other areas anyone could recommend me looking at in Detroit? I'm not talking about Ferndale or Royal Oak. Pricewise, I can get a similar house there that I can find in Plymouth. It's just that once I start looking in the city of Detroit, the houses get a LOT bigger, and a lot grander. We've lived in the city in Portland, Oregon for the past 10 years, and I really like the idea of living in the city of Detroit. I'm just concerned about having a good environment for raising my kids. Thanks for your help. ps. go Tigers! | ||
Zephyrprocess Member Username: Zephyrprocess Post Number: 103 Registered: 08-2006 |
Billpdx--I live in Plymouth now, work in Midtown (near the DMC, Wayne State, etc.) When we chose it, my wife was working at the DMC and I was @ UM, so Plymouth split the distance well for both of us. Plymouth is what you see: not just a bedroom community. My test was "Can I send you a postcard from there?" But Plymouth is not like living in Portland, nor is Plymouth like living in Detroit, nor is Detroit like living in Portland. What does "a good environment for raising my kids" mean to you? | ||
Tndetroiter Member Username: Tndetroiter Post Number: 426 Registered: 12-2005 |
Be advised that if you move into the city, the property taxes are about double what they would be in the 'burbs and the insurance rates are higher, too. That said, there MANY strong arguments that can be made as to how paying a little more to live in the city is a price worth paying in terms of the experince you'll get. Also, if moving into the city, you'll probably end up putting your kids into private schools. | ||
Apbest Member Username: Apbest Post Number: 240 Registered: 03-2006 |
yeah, well the extension of NEZ status to established hoods like Palmer Woods would abate some of those tax problems. And communities like palmer woods are excellent places to raise kids. They are extremely diverse in race and creed, yet very hospitable and close-knit, something EXTREMELY rare in metro detroit or most places in America. There are great private schools near Palmer Woods (U of D comes to mind) and its close to Ferndale/RO...not to mention close to Downtown relatively. THeres a new large commerical center/outdoor mall being constructed near there (by state fairgrounds) that will have quality retail. Thats not to say your family wont be near people on the other side of the track (Palmer Park is nearby and that hood has seen better days). However Palmer Woods is safe, stable, and a great environment. Another place that might be to your liking is Indian Village. The same goes for it as Palmer Woods, except it's close to Grosse Pointe (instead of RO/Ferndale), and it's closer to downtown...plus it has the river. Jefferson is seeing a revitalization of retail and the typical suburban ammenities are pretty much there (even has a starbucks). Also, Indian Village is close to West Village, which is becoming a very eclectic and hispter hood. It also has more historical condo midrises/apartments (which are very upstanding), making it more of a mixed/urban hood. There are some grander homes in Palmer Woods (though Indian Village is still quite massive, with its share of 10,000 sq footers), but the architectural style of I.V. is more diverse. Proximity to flourished west suburbs is a big plus for P.W., so its pretty much a toss up objectively, but I would personally go for Indian Village. If you have strong ties (family wise or whatever) to the West Suburbs, Palmer Woods is def your best bet though | ||
Apbest Member Username: Apbest Post Number: 241 Registered: 03-2006 |
also, be advised that if these communities would not have remained so stable and relatively wealthy (on par or above almost all suburbs) if there was not alot of desirable aspects to them. Remember, they have thrived on par w/ most suburbs DESPITE the condition of the surrounding outer city, which logically means they must be more appealing | ||
Fortress_warren Member Username: Fortress_warren Post Number: 77 Registered: 10-2006 |
My brother is moving from Birmingham to Palmer Woods, he's getting twice as much house for half the money. He's got teenagers, so I guess there isn't that much problem with the feral element. Says "The Man" patrols the hood and keeps the FE out. | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 585 Registered: 11-2005 |
PW has its own private security patrols. | ||
Magnasco Member Username: Magnasco Post Number: 164 Registered: 10-2003 |
While the areas mentioned are nice big homes, the nighborhdoods are not as tight-knit as you would think. I looked at a lot of the neighborhoods in Detroit and because I wanted exactly what you describe, my real estate agent took me to East English Village, just on the edge of Grosse Pointe. My house is two blocks away. The neighborhood is great, very kid friendly, and I not only know all my neighbors, but spend time talking to them. There is a neighborhood association and we too have a private security service that cruises the approximately 2000 homes in our area. Take a look: http://www.eastenglishvillage. org/ While some other areas may have the feel of Detroit, the do not have the people of Detroit. We are a unique bunch.  | ||
Fortress_warren Member Username: Fortress_warren Post Number: 79 Registered: 10-2006 |
"PW has its own private security patrols." I did not know that, how do they pay for that? I can't imagine it's part of the property tax. | ||
Magnasco Member Username: Magnasco Post Number: 165 Registered: 10-2003 |
EEV residents donate into a fund that covers ours. They ask for $100 a year. I am not sure what the collections actually look like. | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 586 Registered: 11-2005 |
Neighborhood association fee. I was on a tour there recently and I believe the guide said the fee also covered snow plowing and lawn maintenance of common areas. | ||
Quinn Member Username: Quinn Post Number: 1010 Registered: 01-2005 |
If you buy in one of the new NEZ historic areas (IVA, Boston Edison, Green Acres, etc...) then your tax rate is lower than Ferndale for the next 12 years. Something like 49 Mils to Ferndale 52. How old are your kids? There are some great public schools in the city...some great private and charter as well. Make sure to tie in heating and cooling for "grander" homes. Look for updated heating systems with, this is key, zones (so you're not heating the entire thing and spaces you never use). Look at the insulation and windows too. Everyone told us this (about heating/cooling) when we bought but we were bedazzled at the thought of owning a, figuratively, "cool" big place, not of the ~$1000/month gas bills of heating a, literally, "cool" big place. It puts a damper on all the parties you imagine when you initially look at the home. ;P  | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 611 Registered: 11-2003 |
It's a buyer's market in Detroit right now. The NEZ extension to existing homes in certain higher value neighborhoods helps even more. If your children are elementary school age, the near east side: Lafayette Park, West Village, Indian Village and Berry Sub are good choices with Chrysler (public) and Friends School and Detroit Waldorf School (private) providing excellent education options. Further east, East English Village is a very stable neighborhood with smaller homes. St. Clare Montefalco School is where many EEV kids attend. Palmer Woods has the grandest homes, and while the prices are bargains compared to comparable homes in the Pointes, Birmingham and Bloomfield, it will still take at least $450K to get one that doesn't require significant renovation. School choices are Gesu (private) and various other parochial schools in southern Oakland County. The neighborhood public elementary schools in NW Detroit struggle with their achievement performance. There are lots of other great neighborhoods in Detroit, including some that are within 5-10 minutes of the CBD. (Corktown, Hubbard Farms, Woodbridge, Boston Edison, Arden Park) If you have school age children, locating in Detroit will first require you to figure out whether DPS is a viable option, or whether your budget can handle the the private school tuition. (P.S. Don't let the initial tuition numbers scare you off. All private and parochial schools in this area offer financial aid. Minimum even with aid/scholarship though is probably $3500 per child.) Good luck. I hope you choose Detroit. | ||
Track75 Member Username: Track75 Post Number: 2414 Registered: 10-2003 |
I believe the Palmer Woods association fee is $495/year. Not bad for living in Detroit's finest neighborhood. We came very close to buying a home on Woodston several years back. In the end we opted to go in a different direction but it was a very tough decision. There's no question that you'll get an incredible home for the price, compared to suburban homes. Many suburbs don't offer anything comparable to the Detroit beauties from the 20's and 30's. Those suburbs that do (the Grosse Pointes, Bloomfield Hills, etc.) are probably priced 2X - 4X higher. As mentioned, you need to analyze the costs beyond the purchase price of the house. Heating/cooling costs, property taxes, income taxes, school tuition if you go private all increase the effective price of the house. Still, the value is there. It would help to have a little more info on what you're looking for. Do you have a price range in mind? What constitutes a good environment for your kids in your mind? Lots of kids in the neighborhood, schools/libraries/parks close enough to walk to, safety, diversity, excellent schools, activities for teenage children, outdoor recreational opportunities, ...? Your Portland housing dollars will go a long way in SE Michigan and particularly Detroit. You can afford to be picky and take your time, from what I see prices are going still down. If I were from out-of-town and relocating here I'd probably rent a house for a year and figure out where I really wanted to live, and cherry pick a great house at a great price. Welcome and good luck. | ||
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 25 Registered: 08-2006 |
This place is an absolute fortune to heat, and it's a lot like (if not identical to) many of the big old homes in Detroit. Unless they've been completely renovated in the last ten years, they're usually lacking in proper insulation and have old plate-glass windows with huge air leaks. They're awesome to live in, but I need a lot of blankets to stay warm at night. That said, the Joseph Berry Subdvision along Jefferson just across from Belle Isle (between Waterworks Park and The Jeffersonian) is a beautiful neighborhood along the river with a wonderful family-friendly community and some awesome old homes. It's also the mayor's neighborhood of choice. If you can find something for sale there, it's a good choice. | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 3167 Registered: 10-2003 |
Plymouth is a nice urban-sprawled old village, so it has a lot of character still - sort of a Birmingham west and has Ann Arbor close by. However, you will pay a minimum of an hour and a half a day for the commute, if there are no slowdowns. So, subtract at least 400 hours a year from your life [50 8 hour days] when you tally your cost. You will also commute with the sun in your eyes both ways and at certain times of the year that can slow the traffic to a crawl and is always a nuisance. The math on taxes and insurance gets somewhat offset by the quality of house you can buy for an equivalent price. Sure a $500K house in Plymouth will have lower taxes and insurance rates one for the same price in Palmer Woods, but what one could buy for $500K Palmer Woods, would cost a million or more in Plymouth, if you could even find a house of equivalent craftsmanship and materials. If you calculate the costs of a million dollar house in Plymouth, then Palmer Woods wins plus you cut your commute by 2/3 and no sun. | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 2860 Registered: 10-2003 |
Moving to DET with equity $$ in-hand from a higher housing price town (like POR) is a buyers dream come true. 250k gets your foot in the door in virtually EVERY housing market in metroDET (and in many markets gets you a nice place) and 500k gets you a NICE home in virtually EVERY housing market. Anything more than that and you are looking at either mansions or exclusive suburbs/subdivisions/neighborh oods ... and in some cases BOTH. Hell, assuming you have significant equity that you "earned" in housing appreciation and not in actual labor, your pain if the housing market in MetroDET crumbles into dust is mitigated. Metro-DET realestate is my "happy place". My wife and I are looking to relocate from the pricey NE corridor but my career limits our big city options to even pricier areas (DC/VA, SD, LA, Bay area). Hell, we've been trying to finagle something in CHI (yikes!) as a lower cost of living metro area compared to these places, lol! ps -- there are plenty of nice neighborhoods in DET and metro Detroit with normal sized houses too, people generally like to advise on the jaw dropping places like PW, BE, IV, Berry etc but there are planty of other nice nieghborhood with nice houses that dont cost a fortune to heat and won't require extensive rehab and are probably a better fit for your family (I mean do you really need a ballroom or his and herrs washrooms offa yer foyer? lol.). (Message edited by rustic on October 26, 2006) | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 4002 Registered: 10-2003 |
Sometimes an obvious typo just brings a smile. }. | ||
Rsa Member Username: Rsa Post Number: 955 Registered: 10-2003 |
i believe rustic was going for the german variation; frau = woman, herr = man. or mrs. and mr., right? | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 2861 Registered: 10-2003 |
Like Hiro Nakamura, I can bend space and time to make puns! | ||
Hysteria Member Username: Hysteria Post Number: 1557 Registered: 02-2006 |
That's how I read it too. | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 4004 Registered: 10-2003 |
Tch, tch tch. I so enjoyed the the original version, as it was copied and pasted in the quote of my post. (Message edited by JamS on October 26, 2006) | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 2862 Registered: 10-2003 |
so be it -- Hiro Nakamura | ||
Magnasco Member Username: Magnasco Post Number: 166 Registered: 10-2003 |
Actually the house size issue was what got me into East English Village after looking in BE, IV, Woodbridge, and Rosedale Park. While there is a large stock of 2500 to 4000 sq ft houses, just around 2000 is good living space, and it is affordable to heat. | ||
Billpdx Member Username: Billpdx Post Number: 14 Registered: 05-2006 |
Thanks very much for all of the information! I keep trying to convince myself that the Plymouth commute will be 30 mins, but I guess that is really wishful thinking. I am particularly interested in the houses in the Indian village area - I think I will try and see a few when I am in town next week. Good advice about the heating bills - I'll try and avoid the 7500 sf homes! Thanks also for the school information. My boys are 1 and 3... That issue will be coming up soon. Do neighborhoods like Palmer Woods/Sherwood Forest and Indian Village have many kids in them? | ||
Zephyrprocess Member Username: Zephyrprocess Post Number: 105 Registered: 08-2006 |
Lowell asserted
but it's not true. I live near 5 Mile & Northville Road, and my commute to mid-town (23 miles) takes a smidge under a half hour, just as you suspected. Lowell is right about the "sunshine slowdowns" that occur around the vernal and autumnal equinoxes, since a good portion of the Jeffries freeway (I-96) runs directly east-west. That lasts about a week, every 6 months. | ||
Artistic Member Username: Artistic Post Number: 22 Registered: 09-2006 |
Quinn, Where is that picture taken of the large ballroom? | ||
Magnasco Member Username: Magnasco Post Number: 167 Registered: 10-2003 |
Not trying to talk you out of a real gem of a house in the City, but its not just the 7500 sq ft you need to be worried about. Heating and electric combined for a 2400 sq ft house last year was running me about 400 to 500 a month on average with spikes into the 600's. That cost, along with taxes, really brings up the cost of ownership. I was able to bring it down a bit by doing some window sealing in the basement and new weather stripping around doors and such. I certainly am encouraging Detroit ownership, just trying to make sure you calculate correctly. | ||
Quinn Member Username: Quinn Post Number: 1013 Registered: 01-2005 |
Billpdx there are many children in IVA, however I'd have to think that the majority of homes do not have children. Our neighbors, for instance, have two (ages ~5 and ~10). They coordinated a Village Walk at 7pm with other families this summer where they all got together and walked. Everyone was invited, of course, but it was mainly families with kids. I'm partial to Indian Village so will argue you move here. All of the historic communities are GREAT but there are added bonuses to living in IVA: - Strong Association - We have a very active and committed group that runs the association. The president is in nearly constant contact with the Mayor's office and Police managers and can get answers to questions overnight. http://www.historicindianvilla ge.org - Wide Range of homes - IVA has homes ranging from 2000 to 12,000 square feet...we even have wonderful condominium communities on the river-side of Jefferson that you might want to take a look at (great old architecture in Detroit Towers and Indian Village Manor - typical of Upper East Side Condo's in Manhattan) - Proximity to Downtown - IVA is the closest community to the CBD and downtown (3 miles) The next nearest community is Woodbridge which is near Midtown. (People who live in Corktown I love you and didn’t forget about you…) - Proximity to Windsor – We can get to Windsor in under 10 minutes. Great restaurants and nightlife. Also, movie theatre’s showing every movie you’d want to see (if the 4-screen theatre with validated garage parking in the rencen isn’t showing what you want) - Proximity to Belle Isle - IVA is the only community (on our "list" here of historic larger communities) within walking distance of Belle Isle, the Nation's Largest City Owned Island Park with nature trails, Bike Paths (7 miles around the park), a beautifully manicured beach, the Detroit Yacht Club (the oldest in the Country I'm told) and GREAT VIEWS of Canada and Detroit. - Proximity to the New Riverfront – The City is currently building a riverfront walk that will connect Hart Plaza and Belle Isle. This will create miles and miles of walkable, “joggable”, Bikeable, etc. riverfront parks that nobody else has. Who else can you say can run along the river, like in Chicago, and see another country across the water? http://www.detroitriverfront.o rg/index.asp?site=5 So there’s my argument. How big of a home are you looking for? We’ve got a great house across the street that is for sale…our friend and neighbor was relocated…the home is beautiful and basically done. | ||
Quinn Member Username: Quinn Post Number: 1014 Registered: 01-2005 |
Artistic, that's our living room during our open house. Just kidding...I don't know...some pic I found on the internet. Think it's the Doge's Palace in Venice: http://jssgallery.org/Essay/Ve nice/San_Marco/Dodge_Palace/Ph oto_Ducale_Interior1.htm | ||
Quinn Member Username: Quinn Post Number: 1015 Registered: 01-2005 |
BTW our association fee (voluntary) for IVA is something like $110/year...that includes snow removal. The company we use is good and plows alleys as well as sidewalks (in addition to the streets). We also have a security patrol that is $30/month for the patrol and monitoring of our alarm system. That $30 is also voluntary. | ||
Corktownmark Member Username: Corktownmark Post Number: 221 Registered: 12-2004 |
Thanks for remembering Corktown Quinn... think Corktown might be a smidge closer to Downtown and Windsor too. Houses are much smaller but unfortunatly so far COrktown has no snow removal or other association services. I live past Trumbull but it still is only one mile to Campus martius. | ||
Gildas Member Username: Gildas Post Number: 869 Registered: 12-2004 |
Billpdx, As others have stated East English Village (where I live) is wonderful. Homes are affordable and EEV now qualifies for the property tax reductions that other areas in the city are getting as well. Many families, private security, snow plowing and great people combine to make it worth looking at. I also looked at IV, Palmer Woods, Boston Edision, etc. But EEV offered (to me) the best homes, area, people, for the money. There are many great areas in Detroit, look them over and talk to people in the area, most are more then happy to talk about thier community. Good Luck!! | ||
Diehard Member Username: Diehard Post Number: 11 Registered: 03-2005 |
I'll second (or third?) the East English Village recommendation. Been there for 8 years. The houses range from little 1000-sq.ft. 1950s bungalows to beautiful 3,000-ish-sq.ft. 1920s tudors. There are a lot available right now (damn the Detroit economy and foreclosures) so it's a great time to buy. Magnasco - Since the EEV Association is more of a block club and not a contractual HOA, the $100 fee for security and $25 for snow removal is (technically) voluntary. So it's always a struggle to keep it going. Some people just can't afford it. We lost the security service a few years ago because not enough households were paying up, but it's back now. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 561 Registered: 02-2006 |
Before I moved to Chicago, I was considering two jobs, 1 in Detroit and 1 in Chicago. If I had taken the Detroit job, I would have likely been purchasing in East English Village or Hamtramck. I ended up moving to Chicago, where I now ABSOLUTELY lack the option to purchase. Oh well...sigh. |
