Fareastsider Member Username: Fareastsider
Post Number: 8 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, October 17, 2006 - 6:13 pm: | |
Do people like the function of Alleys? I personally do as to keep all of the dirty parts of the community like trash and car repairs tucked in the back. Given they are often dirty if kept decent it is a nice feature to a neighborhood. And from what I can gather during the fifties there was a push to vacate alleys. does anybody know more about this program, any info would be greatly appreciated. I work in Surveying and most properties in Detroit and other older parts of town have had the alleys vacated, im assuming mostly because of they were unkept and dirty and because of the progams to close them. |
Brandon48202 Member Username: Brandon48202
Post Number: 113 Registered: 12-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, October 17, 2006 - 7:32 pm: | |
The city does not want to have anything to do with alleys because that are just an extra expense for the city to maintain a nd extra liability. I agree, hiding garages in the back of buildings does make residential streets a lot more attractive. |
56packman Member Username: 56packman
Post Number: 659 Registered: 12-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, October 17, 2006 - 7:42 pm: | |
Our house I grew up in on Braille (between 6&7 mile) was originally built with an alley. My Dad bought the house brand new on the GI bill in 1947 for $9,800. The alley behind our house was eliminated by the mid 50's. I was born in 1959, and as a little kid in the 1960's there were some blocks in the neighborhood with alleys and some (like ours) where the alley was converted to more backyard, replete with the green wooden fence poles with the white "ball" on top. |
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936
Post Number: 858 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, October 17, 2006 - 7:49 pm: | |
Jeez, alleys were more than utilitarian 40, 50 years ago and more. They were playgrounds! All the gang played in the alleys...kick the can and all that funstuff. And alleys were lined with Hollyhocks, from one end to the other. To this day I call them "alley flowers", much to the aggravation of dear wife. We'd catch bees in the blossoms, drop 'em in a jar. Damned if I remember what we did when the jar was full, but that's what we did, and I'll bet Jjaba did too. Everyone had a 55-gallon oil drum in their share of the alley, and papers and combustibles were burned in them. Devil's night saw us tipping them over. No arson, just mischief. Some alleys had the garage entrances to them on that backside. My uncle, on Webb and Third, had his garage so situated, and the property is still as thus last time I was by. Alleys! The mere mention of the word brings back swarms of memories.............. |
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz
Post Number: 768 Registered: 12-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, October 17, 2006 - 8:42 pm: | |
Love those childhood memories. We used to stack up tires and run around at night with flashlights catching frogs to put in the tire stack. Why? I dunno. Just to see how many we could catch? It was sure fun though! |
Harsensis Member Username: Harsensis
Post Number: 90 Registered: 07-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, October 17, 2006 - 9:23 pm: | |
Our alley on Collingham was closed off by the time I remember it in the early 70's. I do remember being able to tell where it was and some people had different sized back yards because of it. We had a pool behind our garage near where the alley use to be. |
Busterwmu Member Username: Busterwmu
Post Number: 284 Registered: 09-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, October 17, 2006 - 9:32 pm: | |
Dearborn was the same way. Most neighborhoods in Dearborn, especailly West Dearborn to my knowledge, of the pre war and immediate post war era when things were still laid out in an essential grid pattern had alleys. Many have been abondoned and closed off, with backyards and lawns occupying their space along the utility lines. Some segments are still in place, usually of a fine gravel, where residents place their trash barrels and some still have garage access. To me, alleys make a lot of sense. I have extended family that lives in St. Paul, MN and their alley system remains in place and used daily by all residents. The alleys are paved and well lighted, and plowed out by snowplows. Many of them have storm sewers underneath, so even though there aren't curbs, the water has some place to go. Detroit's alleys are interesting - as half the time the alley is more overgrown than the lots around it! |
Ordinary Member Username: Ordinary
Post Number: 53 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, October 17, 2006 - 10:14 pm: | |
56packman, Can never forget those fence posts. I'll never forget my buddy Frank taking a baseball bat in his own back yard and walking along and whacking about 6 in a row out of the park. I think his dad beat him to within an inch of his life. The alleys were where we used to hang out. |
Viziondetroit Member Username: Viziondetroit
Post Number: 843 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, October 17, 2006 - 10:24 pm: | |
Garbage trucks would tear down power lines when they picked up dumpsters back when I was a kid in the 80's |
Imperfectly Member Username: Imperfectly
Post Number: 140 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, October 17, 2006 - 10:26 pm: | |
Alleys were great because if a friend lived around the block you just come in the back thru the alley. Sometimes alleys go bad...like the time the kid who lived across the alley accidentally shot his cousin and dumped his body in the dumpster. We moved from that neighborhood in 89 and the alleys were still functioning. |
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan
Post Number: 4572 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, October 17, 2006 - 10:35 pm: | |
My mom and dad who grew up in the city in the 60's have great memories about their allies. As has been mentioned they were playgrounds for the kids often times. |
Karl Member Username: Karl
Post Number: 4530 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, October 17, 2006 - 10:36 pm: | |
Several reasons alleys are/were abandoned. Depending on the city, some/all utilities came in from the back. Increased activity in the back yard (BBQ's, etc) meant pools. Pools had problems with underground pipes and overhead wires. Remember when meters were all in the basement? Today all are outside, and in the front with the latest read via the internet or phone line. Garages and trash are in the front also. The advent of the one-man garbage truck needed the additional room to operate in the front of the house for the side mechanism. Today there are no alleys - all that space is reserved for the family, often an extension of the inside of the house. |
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner
Post Number: 271 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, October 17, 2006 - 10:39 pm: | |
I would personally love to see my alley closed. It goes for roughly 1/4 of the block deep. Only myself and the neighbor a few doors down ever clean the thing. If it was gone, my other neighbors would have more incentive to keep their part of it clean as it would be in their backyard, but knowing how cheap my neighbors are (I'm certain on 2 sides of the alley are rentals) I doubt they would even care. |
Dougw Member Username: Dougw
Post Number: 1387 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 4:21 pm: | |
I'd guess that the main criterion for whether an alley is closed off is whether there are garage entrances along the alley. In Indian Village for example, there are three alleys (toward Mack) which were closed off sometime during the 80's, none of those homes had garage entrances on the alley as far as I know... there were already driveways leading to the street. The nice thing about an alley is if you do have a garage entrance on the alley, you don't need a driveway using up space all the way along your property line from the street to your garage in back. The south end of IV is like this and the houses can be closer together, which gives the area a nice urban feel. If you already have a driveway leading to the street, the alley isn't really all that useful, though. The city of Detroit stopped picking up trash in the alley sometime in the 80's. One block in IV (w/some garage entrances on the alley) is looking at adding electronic gates to their alley for security reasons (that alley borders a major cross street). That's a more expensive proposition than a simple closure, though. |
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed
Post Number: 540 Registered: 02-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 4:41 pm: | |
Bingo, here in Chicago, there are no driveways or attached garages (unless you forfeit your backyard). Everything is in the alley. Personally, I like it that way. It does give a more urban feel, even in the mostly single-family or two-flat neighborhoods. And it keeps all that unsightly stuff out of the street. My alley never seems to get TOO dirty, and the city hasn't cleaned it yet (although they may, just very infrequently). |
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_
Post Number: 1553 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 4:59 pm: | |
Memory maybe a little fuzzy but in the late 80s I seem to remember the city of Detroit allowing residents to spilt the alley and take the land as long as they would fence it in. Does anyone remember that? |
J_stone Member Username: J_stone
Post Number: 338 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 5:00 pm: | |
Corktown has garbage pick up in the alley's still. I love the alley. It's the only way for me to access my garage. |
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner
Post Number: 272 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 5:06 pm: | |
Dougw that is my assumption as well, there is a garage that is further down the alley from my house, but no one ever uses it. this is evidenced by the trees and tire piles that the other residents seem to be okay with in their parts of the alley. |
Caldogven Member Username: Caldogven
Post Number: 15 Registered: 05-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 5:46 pm: | |
When I was growing up in the 40's & 50's the alley's were a great place for having fun without having to worry about traffic. Playing kick the can,baseball,releaso,redcan,ca tching rides on the back of sheeny wagons. And at night hopping fences,climbing garage and sampling the fruit trees and best of all learning about girls! |
Leoqueen
Member Username: Leoqueen
Post Number: 1418 Registered: 07-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 5:55 pm: | |
1966----I got my first kiss from Jimmy Pinkerton in the alley behind our garage, LaSalle between Pilgrim and the Lodge service drive. I was 12, he was 11. memories..... |
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog
Post Number: 749 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 6:02 pm: | |
West Village still has alleys but they are mostly ill-maintaind. A handful of people use garages that faces the alleys but most park on the street -- many don't have garages anymore, just a fence facing the alley. Personally I like the concept of alleys, keeping the dirty stuff in back. It's part of the reason why Indian Village and West Village have such beautiful urban streetscapes -- no driveways, less concrete, just walkways and neatly kept front yards -- the neighborhood has such a humane scale. I do realize that the alleys are a security problem though, mostly because they are never patrolled. Just last night I was woken by my dog and the neigbors dogs to see a couple people pushing a wheelchair full of someones stuff down my alley (!). I called the police and they arrived in a few minutes don't know if they got em or not. It was a wierd night. Again, if the police patrolled the alleys like they do the streets then they wouldn't be the crime problem that they are. Adding electronic gates to the alleys is a great idea by the way. I didn't know IV was looking into it. Solves the crime problem and still provides access for residents. (Message edited by eastsidedog on October 18, 2006) |
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo
Post Number: 325 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 6:02 pm: | |
The south end of IV is like this and the houses can be closer together, which gives the area a nice urban feel. Why, why, why would you want the houses closer together? Can someone please explain the draw of living on top of eachother? |
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog
Post Number: 750 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 6:07 pm: | |
BTW, the old brick-paved alleys in Indian Village are beautiful - you feel like you're in Europe or something. I sometimes like to walk down them and look at the backs of the incredible houses -- probably precisely the reason they want to gate them off. (Message edited by eastsidedog on October 18, 2006) |
Belleislerunner Member Username: Belleislerunner
Post Number: 279 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 6:12 pm: | |
Alleys might be making a comeback. This is one of the new developments that is going up in New Haven by Lombardo Company and selling like hot cakes. Largely due to the affordability and alley/like parking in the rear of the homes. Note how the houses look from the front without any driveways. http://new.lombardohomes.com/C ommunities/Amherst/Amherst_com munity_information.aspx |
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog
Post Number: 751 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 6:23 pm: | |
Belleislerunner, my guess is that the only reason that these alleys are possible is because they are private. They are maintained by the subdivision. The streets are likely private too. In cities (like Detroit) where the streets, sidewalks and alleys are public spaces, alleys seem to be, with few exceptions, quite clearly on the decline. They are perceived to be just another expense in the cash-strapped budget. Detroit vacated all the alleys long ago. Any that are maintained and used are maintained by residents -- although there is still some garbage pickup in the alleys here and there (I've seen it in Islandview) and Edison still has to use the alleys to access the lines. |
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog
Post Number: 752 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 6:29 pm: | |
I don't know about you all but what's really wierd about that pic of the "Amherst Community" is a lack of big trees and overhead powerlines. It feels naked. But it's definitely better than your average sub. (Message edited by eastsidedog on October 18, 2006) |
Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72
Post Number: 362 Registered: 05-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 7:29 pm: | |
Quote: Why, why, why would you want the houses closer together? Can someone please explain the draw of living on top of eachother? ______________________________ ___________________ Because unlike you miss_cleo, some of us like urban living. ------------------------------ ------------------- Playing in the alley's was so much fun growing up in the 70's & 80's, in Northeast Detroit. In addition to baseball and football, my friends and I made a miniture golf course in our alley on Novara. We also built a two- story clubhouse that was well used by all the neighborhood kids. And when I learned to drive, it was a good place to work on my car. Around 1991 or so, the city took out all the dumpsters and replaced them with the Coleman Cans that dot the city streets on trash day now. Now, the alley is overgrown with bushes and trees, and you can't drive a car down their to save your life. In Grosse Pointe Park just across Alter for the first 5 blocks, alleys are still used for access to garages and parking. Detroitej72 |
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz
Post Number: 776 Registered: 12-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 8:07 pm: | |
"a two-story clubhouse"?! Bravo! We appropriated my father's block and tackle and made a treehouse elevator. Such fun! |
Nedab3 Member Username: Nedab3
Post Number: 103 Registered: 01-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 8:54 pm: | |
The alley between Wayburn and Maryland served many purposes. In the 50's we still had separate cans for food waste and other trash. Horsehoe pit was in the alley. The sheenie (sp) man drove his horse drawn wagon down the alley. You knew he was coming when you heard the horn. Picked up any metal trash. Yep hollyhocks grew along everyones back fence. Never planted they just grew back every year. And of course you could hide behind the garage and sneak your first smoke. |
Gaia Member Username: Gaia
Post Number: 7 Registered: 12-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 9:12 pm: | |
Our alley in Ferndale was a selling point. It's not used for trash collection but some utilities still run down and a number of people use it to park since only some houses have driveways. The city doesn't take care of it at all - but most people do so it's not too bad. I'm sure the city would shut them down in a mili-second but too many people don't have driveways. My mom and grandma have shared many a fond memory of playing in the alley when they were growing up in Detroit. I think they like parking in mine because it brings back memories |
Jasoncw Member Username: Jasoncw
Post Number: 254 Registered: 07-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 9:59 pm: | |
These are really nice stories. My house doesn't have an alley (don't know if that's good or bad), so this is interesting. For blocks with parking and garage in the alley, what do you use the streets for? It seems like you'd drive the alley to your house, but that means you're not driving in your street. One thing I like, is that if you have an alley, you don't need to bring your cans out on trash day, since they're already there. Are there stray animals in alleys? Do alleys have street lamps too? |
Bvos Member Username: Bvos
Post Number: 2041 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 10:28 pm: | |
In many Detroit neighborhoods a lot of crime and vandalism happened in the alleys. Car jackings were frequent in alleys and illegal dumping, grafitti, abandoned cars, etc. were frequent as well. The city had trouble collecting trash with abandoned cars in the alley as well as driver safety concerns. Most residents also changed the entrance to their garage from the alley to the street. As you can see this lead to the eventual abandonment of alleys before financial strains became an issue. |
Jerome81 Member Username: Jerome81
Post Number: 1149 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 11:41 pm: | |
I seem to remember a ton of places in Chicago had alleys, and I just loved them. You still got a nice sized garage, but it made streets more walkable. Nice sidewalk with no crossing big driveways. Maybe it is more that, for me, the alley was not something I grew up with or ever had where I lived. So it is kinda something fresh for me. Of course, having and alley and an ATTACHED garage are probably pretty difficult. Attached garages are a big draw for a lot of folks. I can understand that. But maybe that's part of what makes Chicago so great. They seem to hold on to their past more than any other city I know of. You can see cutting edge in parts of the city while at the same time you can pay a visit to a healthy old (and sometimes new!) neighborhood and feel like you stepped back 50 years. So many old commercial spaces and bars where gangsters used to visit are still open. I love being able to see today and the yesterday I never experienced. |
Royce Member Username: Royce
Post Number: 1857 Registered: 07-2004
| Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 12:04 am: | |
We used to put our basketball hoops on the telephone poles in the alleys. We played for hours. Never had to worry about traffic. Looking back, I'm surprised the garbage trucks didn't accidently tear them down. Catching bumble bees, washing dad's car, and sneaking a kiss from the girls was also some memorable pastimes in the alley. Never enough room for baseball. How did you guys play in such a narrow space? |
Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72
Post Number: 363 Registered: 05-2006
| Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 12:15 am: | |
quote:We used to put our basketball hoops on the telephone poles in the alleys. We played for hours. Never had to worry about traffic. Looking back, I'm surprised the garbage trucks didn't accidently tear them down. ______________________________ ___________________ Our basketball hoopes were made from old plastic milk crates, we'd cut out the bottem. We used to take them from Carmen's Party Store's alley at the corner of Novara & Gratiot. Detroitej72 |
Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72
Post Number: 364 Registered: 05-2006
| Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 12:24 am: | |
On a side note, all the hood's boy's(we thought of ourselfs as men), would play 'kill the man with the ball', a version of football. I'm sure many of the fella's on this forum played some vesion of this "sport" We liked the alley because it was gravel, not paved, and it helped us "prove" what men we were by being tackeld on gravel, as it hurt more than the cement! Detroitej72 |
Deputy_mayor_2026 Member Username: Deputy_mayor_2026
Post Number: 121 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 12:30 am: | |
I love hearing the alley stories my father tells of his neighborhood on Hanna street off of 8 mile. |
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog
Post Number: 753 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 10:10 am: | |
Lots of questions Jasoncw, lemme see...
quote:For blocks with parking and garage in the alley, what do you use the streets for?
Jasoncw, for visiting friends houses? and for parking when people visit? You can't really park in the alley without blocking traffic.
quote:One thing I like, is that if you have an alley, you don't need to bring your cans out on trash day, since they're already there.
Wow. Totally true. Fortunately my house in West Village is on the side street and buts up against the alley, so I drag my can from the alley to the street -- like 15 feet.
quote:Are there stray animals in alleys?
Sometimes a stray dog wanders up my alley. From my experience, they more scared of you than you are of them.
quote:Do alleys have street lamps too?
The one next to my house has a couple. The alley (and I think most of the alleys in Detroit) is actually two lanes wide to allow for two directions of traffic. It's somewhat overgrown but I still drive my truck down it sometimes. (Message edited by eastsidedog on October 19, 2006) |
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog
Post Number: 754 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 10:11 am: | |
BTW, Fareastsider, I want to say thanks for starting such an interesting and civil thread. Welcome to the forum! |
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine
Post Number: 1351 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 10:18 am: | |
I never had much experience with alleys until I moved to detroit (don't have any old-timey stories about em from my family either), but I've grown to be a big fan, that is until bulk trash pickup ended, I still like em, but the honeymoon is over |
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo
Post Number: 327 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 10:26 am: | |
*Cause some like urban living* isnt really an answer. I am really curious about this, not putting anyone one down, just want to know....Whats the draw of living so close to another? Up here homes dont have alleys behind them, but the are some in town with cutsey names like Hoopskirt Alley and there are shops and stuff down them. |
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed
Post Number: 542 Registered: 02-2006
| Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 11:33 am: | |
Some appreciate the sense of community and togetherness that a city provides, while some prefer to be as far from other people as possible. My parents' house has a back deck (that we built) and they rarely see the front yard. At my apartment (in Chicago, but the point remains), I spend all my time on the front porch. Just personal preference. Personally, I find our society's desire to run from ourselves disturbing. |
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo
Post Number: 330 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 11:48 am: | |
I find noisey neighbors, the sound of traffic, hearing car door slam, radios blaring, lawn mowers, leaf blowers etc disturbing. To each his own, I just never saw the appeal of city living. |
Steelworker Member Username: Steelworker
Post Number: 772 Registered: 02-2004
| Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 11:55 am: | |
Detroitej72 I Remember seeing those milk crates, i loved the alley on novara me and my family use to find garbage to play with in the alley and act mischevious and brake things. |
Danindc Member Username: Danindc
Post Number: 1849 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 11:59 am: | |
quote:I find noisey neighbors, the sound of traffic, hearing car door slam, radios blaring, lawn mowers, leaf blowers etc disturbing. To each his own, I just never saw the appeal of city living.
That's fine. To each, his or her own. Don't put us city dwellers down, though, just because we value a different lifestyle than you. Disparaging comments like "living on top of one another" only paint you as judgmental. |
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo
Post Number: 332 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 12:01 pm: | |
but thats how you live, its the truth. How about if I say *living shoulder to shoulder* |
Goat Member Username: Goat
Post Number: 8908 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 12:13 pm: | |
^^^Not in Detroit^^^ |
Karl Member Username: Karl
Post Number: 4559 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 12:20 pm: | |
Miss cleo, we all would like peace & quiet, or maybe even a retreat that allows us to sometimes escape to same. Not all of us can have that - but didn't you say you were able to afford to flee thanks to your union pay and benefits, earned in the great City of Detroit? Odd that you leave a heritage that has benefited you so greatly while spitting backwards. Regarding alleys and close houses, each generation learns lessons. Did you realize that along with being very close, most of the houses had littler houses out back where folks shivered in the winter as they did their "bathroom duties"? Now why would they put up with that?? I'm sure I could cite other things folks used to put up with in the city - and still do. Note that while newer homes are close together, many are built with no windows on the sides, but large ones in front and back, allowing a feeling of spaciousness along with privacy. But yes, it would be nice to have had your fat union paycheck, allowing you to flee the crowded, noisy (wonderful, vibrant, diversity-filled) city. BTW, some of us in the city have discovered a new-fangled contraption that you might even enjoy in the woods. It's called air conditioning. |
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed
Post Number: 544 Registered: 02-2006
| Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 12:33 pm: | |
I live in the city, a 15 minute train ride from downtown. My street is covered with trees, I hear fewer car radios than I heard in the Detroit suburbs, and it's rare that someone in the city is using a lawn mower (that's a suburban annoyance). I go to sleep at night with my window open and I hear crickets and frogs. I don't see the problem. Did I mention I get all of that with a 15 minute train ride to downtown? |
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog
Post Number: 755 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 2:01 pm: | |
This thread is about alleys. Why do you egg her on! BTW, I played my share of "kill the man" and "kick the can" growing up, only our house had a driveway (it was a colonial built in the 1920s). Kick the can is one of my all time favorites. |
Karl Member Username: Karl
Post Number: 4569 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 2:17 pm: | |
Eastside, perhaps you've seen the Twilight Zone episode about kick the can? Shades of yesteryear Detroit...... |
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog
Post Number: 759 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 2:56 pm: | |
No I'm afraid I haven't Karl... So a quick question, does anyone remember the police patrolling the alleys back in the day? If so, when did they stop going down them? |
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog
Post Number: 760 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 3:02 pm: | |
BTW, Kids in my neighborhood still like playing in the alleys and sometimes they pull a basketball hoop out into the alley to play a game. |
Fareastsider Member Username: Fareastsider
Post Number: 10 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 4:53 pm: | |
I find it amusing how many alleys today are small strips of growth though the city. Most are completly unkept to the poing where they are long tracts of thickets. I have explored many while surveying properties in the city and the amount of trash people throw back there is mind boggling. IT is such a shame....not to sound to negative but I thought it should be mentioned. Especially when compared to Chicagos alleys like alot of people have mentioned. |
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo
Post Number: 334 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 5:01 pm: | |
I mention I get all of that with a 15 minute train ride to downtown? Have I mentioned my big house, 35 acres, my own pond,deer, bear, coyote, turkey, grouse,etc Northern Lights,stars like you never see in the city, clean air and total silence.....all within 4 hours of Detroit. LOL! |
Goat Member Username: Goat
Post Number: 8911 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 5:03 pm: | |
Great...enjoy and let's move on. |
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog
Post Number: 761 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 5:03 pm: | |
Fareastsider, if the city won't maintain them (paving or otherwise), and the police won't patrol them, and if there's no trash pickup in them anymore, AND most in the alley neighborhoods park on the street, then what do you expect? If the city government hadn't vacated them they'd be like in Chicago. BTW, new alleys have been poured in Islandview as part of the English Village development. The townhouses have attached garages that face the alleys. I'm hopeful that the city will repave all the alleys in the area. |
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog
Post Number: 762 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 5:10 pm: | |
Miss-cleo, can you PLEASE go start BFEyes! |
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo
Post Number: 335 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 6:19 pm: | |
nah, I like it here, There is just this facination with just how deep Detroit will sink. I cant believe what goes on there, the people that get elected, the mis-management of money, etc, etc. Its like a train wreck, you want to look away, but, you just cant. You guys are the ones who post all thenegitive stuff that goes on there, they out number the *good* threads plenty. I would love to see Detroit *turn around* as I have always enjoyed what the city has to offer (in small doses) But it just keeps getting in deeper and deeper. |
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz
Post Number: 778 Registered: 12-2005
| Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 6:39 pm: | |
Beauty is in the mind of the beholder. |
Sticks Member Username: Sticks
Post Number: 115 Registered: 08-2005
| Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 11:10 pm: | |
If any of you are familiar with Cherry Hill Village out in Canton, you'll note that alleys are used a-plenty within that development. However, I don't the kids out there will have some of the colorful memories as the forumers have. Put the garages (thus, automobiles) in the back and place the emphasis where it should be: on the house, not the ugly-ass 2 car garage door. |
Karl Member Username: Karl
Post Number: 4584 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 11:31 pm: | |
Miss cleo - and I'll betcha keep pulling that "D" lever when ya vote, dontcha? You're part of the problem, not the solution. Cleo & Coleman It had a nice ring while you were here, didn't it? And now you flick boogers at the result. |
Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72
Post Number: 370 Registered: 05-2006
| Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 11:32 pm: | |
quote:nah, I like it here, There is just this facination with just how deep Detroit will sink. I cant believe what goes on there, the people that get elected, the mis-management of money, etc, etc. Its like a train wreck, you want to look away, but, you just cant. ______________________________ ___________________ I for one am starting to belive miss_cleo is a 10 year old little girl who is craving the attention that her father never gave her. Anyone else feel the same? Detroitej72 |
Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72
Post Number: 371 Registered: 05-2006
| Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 11:39 pm: | |
BTW, I am offended by her handle name, as my grandfather's name is Cleophas, aka Cleo for short. This name is a very 'old country' name, straight from Poland. I bet she has never been to Poland, and took this name from the faux "psycic" miss cleo. Detroitej72 |
Karl Member Username: Karl
Post Number: 4585 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Friday, October 20, 2006 - 12:08 am: | |
No, Miss cleo grew up in Detroit during the glory days, and took the best it had to offer. But as her old friend has much difficulty with a bad sickness, Miss cleo has no time, she's off to the ball after taking all the friend had to offer - but refusing to help while she's down, and worse - giving her a few kicks on the way out the door. She's related to Oldredfordette, who hasn't figured a way to steal the jewelry & silverware so she's still around. |
Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72
Post Number: 375 Registered: 05-2006
| Posted on Friday, October 20, 2006 - 12:27 am: | |
Well, I hope her stagecoach will turn into a pumpkin soon! I don't need to hear her bitching and crying about her view of Detroit as a lilley white city. Many folks like myself are trying to be part of the solution,(not 'the problem') of Detroit. It may be hard for cleo to fathem this, but there is a strong community in Detroit that is working very hard towards the renisence that is taking place. RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW, as cowards like her flee Detroit, and her iner-ring suburbs. Detroitej72, PROUD DETROITER.... |
Royce Member Username: Royce
Post Number: 1858 Registered: 07-2004
| Posted on Friday, October 20, 2006 - 12:31 am: | |
Karl, I remember the "kick-the-can" episode of the Twilight Zone. It was a great episode. They redid the episode in "Twilight Zone: The Movie" with Scatman Crothers. "Mr. Agee, let go of my wife" is my favorite line from that episode. |
Karl Member Username: Karl
Post Number: 4590 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Friday, October 20, 2006 - 12:56 am: | |
Perhaps someday all those great episodes will be on DVD. I recall watching as a kid and being scared outta my wits - then watching as an adult and being floored at how moralistic they were - and all the before-they-were-famous folks who appeared back then - Serling sure had a 6th sense about a few things and people. Royce (sorry for threadjack) do you remember the spacemen episode with Agnes Morehead? What an ending........ |
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan
Post Number: 4578 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Friday, October 20, 2006 - 1:00 am: | |
It shouldn't take a shrink to see that Miss Cleo is your classic succubus, narcissist, sado-masochist, and voyeurist, who gets her eternal jollies off of other's pain and misfortune. I don't buy the "women scorned" idea, as I imagine she's been this way from birth. There really isn't much need to keep indulging her carnal, base pleasures. Whenever possible, just take note, and move on. Her heaven in Charlevoix is probably all she has. lol So, let's stop feeding the troll. There are such thing as legitimate gadflies. Unfortunately for her, she is not one of them. (Message edited by lmichigan on October 20, 2006) |
Karl Member Username: Karl
Post Number: 4593 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Friday, October 20, 2006 - 1:06 am: | |
Detroitej72, I don't mind Miss cleo heading to the north woods, perhaps she worked hard and deserves it. But looking back at the D that provided the opportunity and allowed her to fulfill her dream - and p---ing out the back window onto the city - however humble - is pretty ungrateful. Detroit provided a great life - and a great living - to millions of folks - and still does. |
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo
Post Number: 339 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Friday, October 20, 2006 - 9:55 am: | |
Oh how rich is this? Not everyone has to love Detroit. Maybe by not living there I can see how ridiculous a place it really is. I am entitled to my own opinion of the city, based on my own experiences there. A fine bunch of people here chose to attack me personally because I dont share their rosey views of the city. Way to go, feel proud that you bash a person because they dont think like you do. Hooray, you put on your shrink cap today and ripped someone apart, speculating and insinuating things you have no idea if they are true or not. Here, here, job well done, be proud |
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936
Post Number: 865 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Friday, October 20, 2006 - 12:27 pm: | |
I've got to support Miss_cleo in her thinking. I loved Detroit for what it was, but when I moved out of state in 1984 (after 47 years), it became but a memory, and frankly I shudder at what it is today. Meanwhile, I'm fat, dumb, and happy out here in my 55+ community in the desert with no graffiti, no boom-boxes, no gunshots, no vagrants, no sirens, and good weather. I still wish Detroit nothing but good, and I shall continue to make yearly trips back. But count me out for becoming a resident. Take your shots, gang....won't faze me. Today is my 70th birthday. Kinda depressing, but it sure as hell beats the alternative. |
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog
Post Number: 765 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Friday, October 20, 2006 - 12:42 pm: | |
BUMP So a quick question, does anyone remember the police patrolling the alleys back in the day? If so, when did they stop going down them? |
Savannahsmiles Member Username: Savannahsmiles
Post Number: 1 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Friday, October 20, 2006 - 12:51 pm: | |
HAPPY BIRTHDAY Ray1936!!! I've tried posting here forever but never have been successful at posting a message. I doubt this time will be any different but I typed this out anyway because I needed to vent. Miss_Cleo, if Detroit is such a thorn in your side, why bother coming to this forum? I'm sure there are plenty of places that would be happy to hear your negative comments about Detroit. I have read here for some time -- a couple years I guess -- and enjoy the peaceful and positive "conversation" that takes place here. Since I now reside in TN (after years in Detroit -- mostly Southwest), this is how I get my Detroit "fix". I love the stories about alleys and neighborhoods and what's new and improved, and what is not but should be, people's hopes and dreams for the city and each person's contribution to help make it happen. I love Detroit. I love the architecture, the sounds the smells, the people, the attitude (some anyway, LOL) and the feel of DEETRoit. There is just no other place like it. Miss_Cleo, I am glad that you like it where you live. I like my rural southern small-town life, too. But I will always love and miss Detroit. It is a part of me that I tried for a long time to shake. Then I realized that it is in my blood and don't want to change that any more than I would want to change my parentage. Thank you, everyone here for sharing your stories and insights with the readers here. I hope ya'll don't mind me joining in sometimes. GOD BLESS! :-) |
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936
Post Number: 866 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Friday, October 20, 2006 - 1:25 pm: | |
You made it, Savannah....wtg! And thank you for the b'day wishes. |
Fareastsider Member Username: Fareastsider
Post Number: 13 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Friday, October 20, 2006 - 3:18 pm: | |
Eastside Dog... I doubt if the city kept them open they would be clean, patroled and open. Look at a whole bunch of the streets and the amount of litter there. Alot of open alleys are make shift dumps. Alot of overgrown alleys are actually still owner by the city. They just have no resources and most things the city does is sub par. I doubt if even more alleys were open they would be cleaner. Just like with all of the working street lights. There is to much mismangagement like miss cleo says but we all know that and that is PART of the many problems. IF you wanna know the main reason Detroit has declined go look at a table of jobs in the city by year throught the 1920s-to today it is unbelievable |
Fareastsider Member Username: Fareastsider
Post Number: 14 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Friday, October 20, 2006 - 3:20 pm: | |
OH YEA I THOUGHT THIS THREAD WAS ABOUT ALLEYS NOT ARGUING SO LETS GET BACK TO ALLEY DISCUSSION......only in this board would you see a message like that... |
Ragtoplover59 Member Username: Ragtoplover59
Post Number: 11 Registered: 09-2006
| Posted on Friday, October 20, 2006 - 3:52 pm: | |
Welcome Savannahsmiles ! I too am a former SW Detroiter now Loving life in TN, I look forward to hearing more from you in the "What was Detroit for you growing up, what is it now?" thread. I understood your need to "vent", I've felt that way many times here before I actually joined . But I guess everyone has that need at one time or another, so I just look at neg. post as someones own venting? Miss_cleo's posts have at least brought you to the club ! We all come here to share our memories of Detroit, some live there (Supersport, Rock ) and give us a updated view, some live away now (Ray1936, Jjaba )and give us gentle reminders of what we Had back then. I tip my hat to all of the posters, good or bad,, they keep me thinking ! as far as Alleys, I miss mine ! we dont have them here. seems like kids nowadays are getting less and less places to play safe. In Fact In my area we also have NO sidewalks, whats a Kid to do? and as far as BDays's Have a Happy one Ray! btw Savanah,I'm in Clarksville, are you close? |
Swingline Member Username: Swingline
Post Number: 603 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Friday, October 20, 2006 - 4:10 pm: | |
Alleys present a sad dilemma for Detroit. They clearly provide the best urban form for city living. As a practical matter though, they provide too much opportunity for the predatory criminal element that lives in Detroit. Also, Detroiters have shown over the past 2-3 decades that they will not devote the effort and time needed to maintain the portion of the alleys adjacent to their homes. This is particularly problematic in neighborhoods where many residents are renters. Landlords share the blame too. What's the solution? There certainly isn't a simple one. Gating the alley entrances won't work. There are plenty of assholes looking to steal cars or break into houses or garages who will have no problem crashing a stolen pickup through those gates every other week if necessary. I wish it were different. |
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog
Post Number: 766 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Friday, October 20, 2006 - 6:26 pm: | |
IMO, the best solution is for the city to identify the alleys that get modest use where the residents are more likely to maintain them (i.e. more homeowners). The city should repave these alleys and ticket folks who don't maintain their share (doesn't have to be perfect, just clear of debris and brush). Once repaved and cleaned up police patrols could occassionaly go down the alleys which would help a lot with the crime nuisance. The city could even start up garbage pick up in the alleys. I have a feeling that residents would have more pride in maintaining the alleys if the city did it's part to pave them. Keeping the garbage cans in the alleys would add to the visual appeal of these neighborhoods, and the alley feature would likely be a perk for the neighborhood. Maybe this investment by the city would help home values too. Rundown, overgrown alleys are hardly a selling point for a neighborhood. Eastsidedog, sweeping and blowing down his part of the alley on the east side. (Message edited by eastsidedog on October 20, 2006) |
Savannahsmiles Member Username: Savannahsmiles
Post Number: 4 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 1:32 am: | |
Ragtoplover59 and Ray1936, Thanks for the welcome. Ragtop, I live in Savannah, TN, small town next to the TN River that sits on the BamaSippi lines. No alleys or sidewalks here either. I'm about an hour and a half east of Memphis. I have lived all over Detroit and remember the wooden fence posts with the big balls on top, and the days when there were metal trash cans instead of dumpsters. I left Detroit the last time before they did away with the dumpsters. I'm not too proud to admit that I furnished my last apartment with many castoff treasures that I picked up in the alleys in my SWD neighborhood. I remember as a kid it seemed like there was a quietness when walking in the alley that you didn't have when walking in the street. I guess the alley held some sort of mysterious feeling for me because it was basically off limits to me. I parked my first car in our garage off the alley on Wendell and Pitt. My mother was sure I would be killed in that alley (this was early/mid 80's and she was afraid of everything) in late 60's when I was 18 months to 2 years old (yes I remember), I would walk around the corner from our house on Stansbury near Schoolcraft and take off my clothes and "swim" in a puddle at the entrance to the alley behind our house. Two of my brothers began smoking behind our garage in that alley. They worked on their cars back there as well. I hate that my children will not experience alleys, basements and riding their bikes and BIGWHEELS on the sidewalks. Ahh the wonderful sound and feel of riding a BigWheel on the sidewalk! |
Dougw Member Username: Dougw
Post Number: 1408 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, November 07, 2006 - 10:20 pm: | |
(bumping this old thread before it disappears ) Eastsidedog wrote: quote:Adding electronic gates to the alleys is a great idea by the way. I didn't know IV was looking into it. Solves the crime problem and still provides access for residents.
Yep. I've actually been working on this. There are a lot of issues involved with doing this, though, mainly coming up with something reliable which is not way too expensive. Even if it is successful I'd guess it would only be done on some alleys.
quote:BTW, the old brick-paved alleys in Indian Village are beautiful - you feel like you're in Europe or something. I sometimes like to walk down them and look at the backs of the incredible houses -- probably precisely the reason they want to gate them off.
Yeah, I occasionally like to wander down some of the other alleys too, which is a small downside to adding gates. Ultimately, though, I don't see alleys as a real public space that everyone is entitled to, they really belong more to residents of the alley. (I even feel like a bit of a trespasser wandering down someone else's alley.) Streets are definitely public spaces, though, which is why fully gated communities are no fun. Swingline wrote: quote:Alleys present a sad dilemma for Detroit. ... What's the solution? There certainly isn't a simple one. Gating the alley entrances won't work. There are plenty of assholes looking to steal cars or break into houses or garages who will have no problem crashing a stolen pickup through those gates every other week if necessary.
True, it's not easy, but it's not impossible either. Basically you need a very strong gate material such as hollow steel, and either a sliding gate configuration or a swinging gate with a magnetic lock. Steel gates (as opposed to aluminum or other cheaper materials) are fairly impervious, and if damaged can usually be bent back into shape, or so I'm told. |
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog
Post Number: 802 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, November 08, 2006 - 5:01 pm: | |
Dougw, I heard there has been a lot of talk in IV about becoming a gated community. Could gating the alleys off just be a political move? A baby step towards gating off all of IV? I hope not. Personally, I'd like to see the alleys stay open but I know what a crime problem they are. If only the police patrolled the alleys like they do the streets. (Message edited by eastsidedog on November 08, 2006) |
Dougw Member Username: Dougw
Post Number: 1422 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 6:38 pm: | |
quote:Dougw, I heard there has been a lot of talk in IV about becoming a gated community. Could gating the alleys off just be a political move? A baby step towards gating off all of IV? I hope not.
It is not a step toward a gated community, I would say, they're really separate issues. For one thing, adding gates to an alley can be done at a block level, you don't need permission from anyone outside of that block, or even the neighborhood association. For example, I'm just looking into adding electronic gates to my particular alley/block, but I'm opposed to the idea of making the whole neighborhood a gated community. Gating a neighborhood has to be done at the neighborhood level, and is a much bigger deal, involving traffic engineering and other departments. Now, there was a separate effort (currently stalled) to close a couple of the least-used intersections (out of 19) into the neighborhood to traffic, while keeping them open to pedestrians. Mostly it would have the effect of cutting down on east-west cross traffic cutting through the neighborhood. I'm OK with the idea, but I can see people being opposed to that, as that does look more like a baby step toward more gating. Even then, though, from my involvement in some of these efforts, I know that creating a truly gated community is pretty much impossible, so I'm not even worried about it. |
Bob_cosgrove Member Username: Bob_cosgrove
Post Number: 413 Registered: 03-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 9:43 pm: | |
To deny alley access to trespassers, a single gate could be placed in the center of the alley. This would eliminate trespassers and would lessen, but not eliminate, home invasion from the rear. It is highly unlikely that City Council would ever permit an older area like Indian Village to become a gated community. Although they have permitted it to happen in newer subdivisions, but perhaps they didn't have control there. Completely gating Indian Village would be difficult too due to the many main cross streets Kercheval, Vernor and Charlevoix. Bob Cosgrove |
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz
Post Number: 1019 Registered: 12-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 10:23 pm: | |
The last gated community I lived in was so frustratingly confining that people often just crashed through the gate/fence with their big trucks. Granted, that was in Phoenix and things may be different here. Nevertheless, "gated community" seems an oxymoron. If it were truly a community, there would be no need for gates. |
Dougw Member Username: Dougw
Post Number: 1425 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 1:58 pm: | |
A single gate (actually a fence) in the center of the alley might work well for some alleys, especially if the garages were clustered toward the ends of the alley. That's a cheap and simple option. Someone has a garage right in the middle of our alley, though, and I think they're used to being able to drive either way down the alley. Still, it would cut down on crime/trespassing, since there would only be one escape route for someone considering a crime. |
Hit24sqft Member Username: Hit24sqft
Post Number: 28 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2006 - 9:59 am: | |
My grandparents lived on Dolphin near Grand River & Fenkell and we used the alley to play horse shoes in the summer. We would round up kids in the neighborhood and have tournaments - it was great. One day, however, I forgot to remove the steel posts and early the next morning the garbage truck ran into them. I never forgot after that ! Alleys were like an extension of the back yard. Great memories. |
Danny Member Username: Danny
Post Number: 5202 Registered: 02-2004
| Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2006 - 10:33 am: | |
In Wyandotte, 99% of the neighborhoods from Biddle Ave. to Fort St. has manicure cut grassy alleys. I rode my bike there at one time as a shortcut. Kids could play there, its much roomier for utility reasons and it was used primary for garbage pick up. Some Lincoln Park neighborhoods has alleys both concrete and grassy. But long time ago all Lincoln Park neighborhoods had alleys for utility reasons now most of the alleys has closed down. Hamtramck has the most cleanest alleys on the Metro Detroit area so clean that you can basket ball or street hockey there. Highland Park's neighborhood alleys is all ghetto like once coated with concrete and grown with weeds and thistles and dope dealing was common there. Ecorse and River Rouge alleys are either grassy, clean and gravel coated for utility and parking reasons. When suburban sprawl loomed there were no need for alleys. But in Detroit's Brush Park Area. At the Crosswinds Condo Project, once was a dirty cobblestone and brick alleys are now turned into walkable allies to access to your condo. |