  Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 2804 Registered: 08-2004 |
Has anyone thought about this? I think Detroit should try to return to its past and re-establish historic neighborhoods once inhabited by early European immigrants. We all know where the Poles lived, where the Belgians lived, where the Germans and Jews lived, etc.. If we can re-create that part of history (or let those groups design or do whatever to the area they like), Detroit might see a population boom it hasn't seen in over 50 years. Yay or Nay? | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1887 Registered: 06-2004 |
What the hell are you talking about? "Look at me, I go to a fancy college, but my ideas are about as dumb as rocks." | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10716 Registered: 10-2003 |
What fancy college is that? I must have missed an episode and not realized it. | ||
Track75 Member Username: Track75 Post Number: 2389 Registered: 10-2003 |
Oy vey. | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 2023 Registered: 10-2003 |
Yes, lets move back to the '20s and the era of segregation, restrictive covenants, etc.! Did you fail history class Ltorivia? | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 103 Registered: 03-2006 |
Last night on PBS was the documentary on segregation. When I first read this thread I thought of that documentary. Dont quite know how to respond. | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3820 Registered: 10-2003 |
I give my vote to Dabirch as the best response so far. Can we make a living from dressing in traditional ethnic garb living in the enclaves (Ghettos) impressing the tourists with our ethnic dances and accents? | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 228 Registered: 04-2006 |
Lt, you can't just make a great place, they have to happen. Rebuilding communities is a noble goal, but you can't dictate where ethnic groups will live any more than you can dictate where the hookers will walk. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 1536 Registered: 10-2004 |
Maybe she's just looking for a high body count, for some odd reason. I assume it's a she... | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 2805 Registered: 08-2004 |
It's obvious that people here are not innovative thinkers. No wonder Detroit is falling behind... Whenever I visit cities, the people of the neighborhoods celebrate the history behind them. There is LOTS of history behind Detroit neighorhoods, and it's a FACT that many different immigrants lived in certain neighborhoods in the city. These neighborhoods, which are not segregated , are lively and booming areas in other parts of the city. Why can we not RECOGNIZE that fact? If Detroit wants to become a world-class city, it should celebrate its heritage. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2882 Registered: 08-2004 |
OK... but we Germans want Greektown back... it was ours, we built it... and we want it back! Ditto for St. Joseph's Parish. But seriously folks... LT, the ethnic Germans who migrated from the Greektown area in the 1850's, have been migrating in a northeastern direction for the last 150 years. The German community is now mainly centered around Sterling Heights, Clinton Township, and points northward. Many of them have seen their remaining neighborhoods in Detroit go downhill, and sell their homes for firesale prices. They will not be coming back anytime soon, due to the crime and poverty in Detroit. That's not my believe... that's theirs. | ||
Track75 Member Username: Track75 Post Number: 2391 Registered: 10-2003 |
The mind boggles... | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 2807 Registered: 08-2004 |
What other bright ideas do you have? I am a historical person by nature. The way Detroit is heading, NO ONE will be around. | ||
Mw2gs Member Username: Mw2gs Post Number: 225 Registered: 03-2005 |
While your idea is noble....there are certain groups that dont want to go back to "the way things were". It's insulting to suggest so. Crime and poverty are not what's keeping Detroit from becoming world class. That's only an excuse for certain groups to remain segregated. | ||
Ray Member Username: Ray Post Number: 796 Registered: 06-2004 |
Ltorivia485, You are on to something, although I think the ethinic groups of the future would be different. Immigration will drive US demographics foward and play a major -- no THE major -- rule in revitalizing the city. | ||
Mayor_sekou Member Username: Mayor_sekou Post Number: 51 Registered: 09-2006 |
Itd be kind of hard to just designate a certain group of people to certain neighborhoods that was Detroits problem back in the day. Different groups have to settle in certain negihborhoods because they want to not because its been planned or whatever for them to be in a certain area. Immigration will and always have been one of the major factors in the development or redevelopment of almost every major city in the country, this city need to jump back on the bandwagon and stop dedicating ALL of their energy trying to convince subarbanities to move back into the city. | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 186 Registered: 08-2006 |
Ltorivia485, you made a good point. I don't know how much Detroit recognizes it's old neighborhoods or talks about their great history, but if they aren't then they definately should. I know Milwaukee and Pittsburg both have big programs to tell you about neighborhood histories and I think it has really helped some neighborhoods. I don't know about Pittsburg, but I know it's working in Milwaukee. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 230 Registered: 04-2006 |
Ray I would agree. One of Detroit's biggest problems is that we have no new immigrants to note of being allowed in. Neighborhoods have always been support centers for immigrants; whether they be from the South or from Poland. Detroit does have a large immigrant population: mexicans, iranians, iraqi, hindu, and hmong cultures thrive in Detroit. However, many are stuck in low paying illegal-hiring jobs. These have no real future, only legal immigrants have a chance to make it in today's society/culture/economy. I am willing to bet one of the contributing factors to Detroit's low census counts are the large numbers of illegals living in City that do not want to be counted. Lt's point is based in facts, but it is not simply realized. Crime is a real factor, as is migration (both internal to the region and immigration). We cannot legisltate or manufacture these sorts of places. They make themselves out of neccssity, and remake themselves many times over as population shifts and changes. There is nothing wrong with change. There is nothing wrong with using geographic agglomeration for assimulation. We cannot however create places that exclude people due to color, culture, class, religion, or ethnicity. These are racist and against the fundemental ideals of freedom. | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 187 Registered: 08-2006 |
immigration certainly helped Chicago and it's helping Milwaukee. Hispanic immigration to Detroit is a great thing. I read an earlier arguement that the city was a far worse place fifty years ago. The city may have been highly segregated, but isn't the wider area just as segregated as it was fifty years ago? Detroit was in far better shape in 1950 then it is today. I think he along with everyone else here would love to see all of Detroit's neighborhoods come back to life. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1848 Registered: 07-2004 |
The old immigrant neighborhoods are a thing of the past. What the city could do is promote immigration from other countries. Encourage people coming from other countries to live in Detroit, instead of settling in NYC or Miami or wherever immigrants tend to go to first. Promote Detroit like DetroitYes promotes Detroit and we might get some takers. | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 189 Registered: 08-2006 |
"The old immigrant neighborhoods are a thing of the past" What about Mexicantown, Dearborn, and Hamtramck? | ||
Dtown1 Member Username: Dtown1 Post Number: 224 Registered: 08-2006 |
Well Milwaukee, with the exception of Mexicantown, the rest of the areas arent really helping us or the city because they are considered seperate from the city or a SUBURB! | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1849 Registered: 07-2004 |
Yes, Milwaukee, the ones that you mentioned still exists but not the ones that I mentioned. If they still exists, then they exists outside of Detroit. The bottom line is you can't recreate Poletown, Little Italy, or Germantown in Detroit unless the people of those nationalities wanted to set up shop here. In an ideal world you wouldn't have ethnic neighboorhoods. All the races would live and shop in the same neighborhood. | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 190 Registered: 08-2006 |
Dtown1, you're right. I was just mentioning some very ethnic area's in the Detroit area. Is there some part of Detroit called Chaldeantown? | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 2808 Registered: 08-2004 |
Yeah, 7 Mile between Woodward and I-75. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 2809 Registered: 08-2004 |
Royce, I believe if the city gives people INCENTIVES (you know, community development block grants) to redevelop neighborhoods in the city without corporate or outside influence, then there will be a major turnaround. Right now, there's too much hatred and division on both sides of 8 Mile and Telegraph to work together and redevelop the city. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2200 Registered: 10-2003 |
The only reason those immigrant groups moved to Detroit was for low skill, high wage jobs. They then congregated in the lower cost areas of the city. They didn't move here to be next to fellow countrymen. They could have stayed in their home country if they just wanted to be next to their fellow contrymen. Bring back the jobs and you'll bring back immigrants. Both foreign and US. | ||
Rossco Member Username: Rossco Post Number: 54 Registered: 07-2006 |
Ndavies hit it square on the head. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 664 Registered: 11-2003 |
Ndavies is right. Frequently the immigrants would cluster around other people of the same nationality because the newcomers would be forced into the neighborhoods which had crummy housing and services. Just look at Black Bottom-- everybody waxes nostalgic about how it was a great African-American emigrant community, but the people that lived there had to put up with some of the worst, most unsanitary housing conditions that ever existed in the city. | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 3056 Registered: 10-2003 |
LT, I don't think your plan is viable either, but you have stimulated conversation and thought, so kudos to you for that. To some degree what you say [the old school immigrant bootstrapping] is happening in the Mexican town area particularly along the Vernor corridor. But is is a moving forward as opposed ot a looking backward movement. Ditto for the Bengalis in Hamtramck along Conant and the adjacent Yememi neighborhoods in Detroit. These things happen naturally, as in the past, and when hard work leads to better times the children of these new arrivals will probably move along too. What might work is to develop policies evolved from lessons learned as to why these people decided to move to the D, in spite of all the warnings and bad press -- things like you can buy a house for nothing [relatively speaking in the case of the Brooklyn Bengalis] and set up business cheaply. [In the case of the Mexican-Americans from LA, virtually gang free Detroit is part of the incentive.] Perhaps there are other communities that could be individually and creative targeted and enticed to likewise infill other declining neighborhoods. I don't know how many of you have cruised Vernor in recent times, and remember how desolate it was ten years ago, but the change is dramatic. | ||
Janesback Member Username: Janesback Post Number: 105 Registered: 08-2006 |
Last night on PBS was the documentary on segregation. When I first read this thread I thought of that documentary. Dont quite know how to respond ------------------------------ -------------- Actually, this idea isnt as far fetched as you may think. His honor, Mayor R. Nagin of New Orleans did make a statement to the news media about that very idea. I dont have his exact quote, but it went as so "and I dont care what they think in Mid town, Uptown or where ever, when the day is over, New Olreans is going to be a chocolate city, as God had wanted" Again, I can look to see if its still on the Net, but I am sure for everyones sake, it is common knowledge. Mark Morial, former mayor of N.O, and an activist for N.O's recovery was proudle sporting his "BRING NEW ORLEANS BLACK " tee shirts for the media to see in June of 2006, at the C.C.C. bridge So, although this poster may make a certain statement that some dont agree with, its not unheard of in other cities. | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1890 Registered: 06-2004 |
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Janesback Member Username: Janesback Post Number: 106 Registered: 08-2006 |
Da bich, care to explain what you mean on the previous post? | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1891 Registered: 06-2004 |
Not if you call me Da bich. And if I have to explain it, you just don't get it. | ||
Janesback Member Username: Janesback Post Number: 107 Registered: 08-2006 |
Dabirch, err.......sorry there hun, didn't see that "r" in your screenname. I apologize for my error, Jane | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 2812 Registered: 08-2004 |
Lowell, I like your idea. There are just so many (empty) neighboroods that are dying for residents. We should market why Detroit can be an ideal place to live. Cheaper standard of living is one of them. The good can drive out the bad. I just know from my history courses that immigration then and today drives American cities. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 668 Registered: 11-2003 |
"I just know from my history courses that immigration then and today drives American cities." There needs to be the prospect of jobs before many people will immigrate again. You say that there are many empty neighborhoods that need residents. But there need to be jobs before residents will flock back to them. I also don't know what you mean by "cheaper standard of living." What about the high taxes, insurance rates and rip-off "grocery" stores? | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 1547 Registered: 10-2004 |
"I also don't know what you mean by "cheaper standard of living." What about the high taxes, insurance rates and rip-off 'grocery' stores?" You'll just have to forgive the OP because she really never had an opportunity to really experience any real work and all. To her, it's just what she reads in her black and female studies and urban-planning basket-weaving curricula. | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 197 Registered: 08-2006 |
"There are just so many (empty) neighboroods that are dying for residents" With Detroit's delining population and an abundence of open land and urban prarie, In 50 years Detroit could be a land of gated mcmansions. No public schools, all privet schools, and big ugly shopping centers. Not a good thing, just a possiblity. It's happening on the east side. Detroit city will never have 2 million people again, but the population will never hit 0. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 1548 Registered: 10-2004 |
At least not its rat population... | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 2813 Registered: 08-2004 |
Livernois, your comments are very insulting. Yes, Detroit has a cheaper standard of living than places like Chicago and New York City. Yes, high taxes plague the city because there is substantial middle-class and property values are much lower. Yes, automobile insurance is high because the state won't do anything about the unfair redlining that impacts poor and black neighorhoods (If Detroit was whiter, we wouldn't even have this discussion. It IS a racial issue.). Take your dumb comments somewhere else. (Message edited by ltorivia485 on October 05, 2006) | ||
Innovator Member Username: Innovator Post Number: 30 Registered: 07-2006 |
"You'll just have to forgive the OP because she really never had an opportunity to really experience any real work and all. To her, it's just what she reads in her black and female studies and urban-planning basket-weaving curricula." I guess you would rather have young people interested in Detroit start work right out of high school rather than get an education for themselves. Cause, you know, where has higher education and urban planning ever gotten anybody? | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 5054 Registered: 02-2004 |
For Detroit's development growth. Here's what I see it. MIKE ILLITCH RENOVATED THE FOX THEATER BUILDING IN 1987. THE PEOPLE MOVER CAME INTO OPERATION IN 1988. THE COMERICA TOWER BUILDING WAS COMPLETED IN 1992. THE VIGINIA PARK HOMES ON THE EAST SIDE ON DICKERSON AVE. SOUTH OF JEFFERSON AND THE OTHER AT ROSA PARKS NORTH OF W. GRAND BLVD. WAS COMPLETED IN MID 1990'S THE CROSSWINDS CONDOS WAS IN FULL SWING IN BRUSH PARK IN 1999 MAKING IT THE FIRST COMMUNITY TO BE MARKED FOR THE EMPOWERMENT ZONE GENTRIFICATION PROJECT. THE HOCKEYTOWN CAFE OPEN IN THE LATE 1990'S OCP COMPUWARE BUILDING WAS COMPLETED IN 2001. COMMERICA PARK WAS COMPLETED IN 1999. THE LOFTS AT WOODWARD AVE WAS COMPLETED IN 2000. FORD FIELD WAS COMPLETED IN 2001. THE LOFTS AT THE OLD KRESGE/KALES BUILDING WAS COMPLETED IN 2002. MERCHANT'S ROW WAS IN FULL SWING AND MADE IT WAS COMPLETED IN 2003. THE WOODBRIDGE ESTATES ARE IN FULL SWING WITH NEW SINGLE FAMILY HOMES, APTS, SENIOR CITIZEN HOMES AND CONDOS. STARTED IN 2001. THE NEW DOWNTOWN Y.M.C.A. BUILDING WAS COMPLETED IN 2004. THE CAMPUS MARTIUS PARK HAD BEEN COMPLETED IN 2005. THE MORE DEVELOPMENT FROM BUSH PARK, CASS CORRIDOR AND UP THROUGH THE MIDTOWN AREA ARE IN FULL SWING FROM 2004 TO PRESENT. THE ERNST AND YOUNG BUILDING WAS COMPLETED IN 2006. |
