  Fastcarsfreedom Member Username: Fastcarsfreedom Post Number: 63 Registered: 11-2005 |
Developers Anthony Toldo and the Rosati Group have made a deal to move Windsor Raceway, The Slots at Windsor Raceway and their proposed 6,500 seat Ice Track arena/entertainment complex out of Windsor to the neighboring suburb of Tecumseh. Scheduled for completion in 2008, the new complex will be located at the 401 and Manning Road, east of Windsor. Also on the site will be a "Wayne Gretzky's 99" Restaurant--and Gretzky's ownership group called "M-Ten" will also run the food and beverage operations for the Slots, Raceway and Arena. The group intends the arena to play host to a "hockey franchise" although at this time it's unclear whether that would be the OHL Windsor Spitfires, or whether the development group might seek an AHL franchise as they have previously suggested. A hotel is also proposed to be part of the project. The City of Windsor will lose the annual divident paid by the Slots at Windsor Raceway to the city--usually in the ballpark of $1.5 million. | ||
Wilderness Member Username: Wilderness Post Number: 25 Registered: 09-2006 |
This will not happen without controversey. The VLT/Slots at Windsor Raceway are not owned by the facility themselves. They are placed there by the Ontario Gaming Commission as a condition that the Raceway presents a harness racing schedule that is beneficial to the horsemen and economy of the agriculture in that area. The Toldo group has done everything possible to destroy any success of the racing meet in effort to remove that burden/requirement. Toldo himself is another controversey. He was instrumental in arranging the sale of the facility from the former Rowe Family (that established the facility) to the current group for much less than many anticipated the value at. The result was that Toldo receives a cushy annual salary from the current ownership. The current raceway ownership has not honored their race dates agreement with the Ontario Racing Commission (i. e. Ontario Gaming Commission) in the past few years. Last year at contract renewal their was strike by the horsemen (which was also honored by participating Michigan horsemen) when the raceway signed an agreement with a phony horseman's group that actually had few members or horses to race. There has not been any announcemnt of approval of this move from the Ontario Gaming Commission, which would be a requirenmnt to relocate the VLT's/slots. To be fair, the raceway has a competition from the downtown Windsor Casinos that no other raceway in Ontario has. The result of this competition is a very low average of dollars through each machine as compared to the remainder of Ontario's raceways. Still in all, the persistence of current management to destroy the established market and clientele of their horse wagering community must be considered a major factor in their own demise. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8842 Registered: 10-2003 |
Let Tecumseh have it. Good luck paying for it. $12 million as a cost to the tecumseh budget equates to a budget of $120 million to Windsor. Couple that with no tenant for the building (no AHL team is moving there at all). Add that it is too far for most Americans to go to and the place it screwed. Tecumseh begged Windsor for more water and sewage in the land swap and there you have animosity to boot. I hope the fuckers fail! BTW: OLG (Ontario Lottery and Gaming)said they would not stand in the way of the move. | ||
Fastcarsfreedom Member Username: Fastcarsfreedom Post Number: 65 Registered: 11-2005 |
Goat--I see you're as positive as ever. I for one have said all along I thought the arena was better-off downtown, and I am, after-all, an evil, SUV-driving suburbanite. While I found it amusing that Mayor Francis suddenly abandoned his usual provincial/xeno-phobe attitude in favor of "regional thinking" once it became clear that the Raceway & Slots were lost--I do in the end support the idea of "regional" thinking and planning. Not regional government--but regional thinking. Tecumseh paying for this is hardly an issue. Their credit facility easily absorbs it--and this is, after all, not exactly a backwater. I can't help but see much of the derision about this plan as plain, old-fashioned sour grapes. I love Windsor--lived in the city for 10 years before moving to the 'burbs--and Windsor's success is Tecumseh's success--and vice versa. However, Windsor has fumbled the arena issue for decades and Tecumseh sowed up a deal in six weeks. As for Americans, gaming revenues, etc--these are more complex issues than some people realize. The halcyon days for Slots revenue at Windsor Raceway are passed. The majority of the past U.S. clientele are elsewhere--either downtown at CW--or at home. The Raceway has curtailed service to the bare minimum even on the Slots side of the operation--so now it is primarily regulars, locals, some U.S. bus tours and a few die-hard customers from MI. Moving to Tecumseh won't change that--it will just locate the Raceway and Slots more centrally in the county and possibly make it more attractive to folks from Kent County or those passing through on the 401. As a Windsorite--saying you hope the f***ers fail is a sad testament to the provincial attitudes in this area that have been so pervasive in the 12 years I've lived in this area. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8845 Registered: 10-2003 |
Damn straight! This area should have had a regional gov't when it was first proposed years ago. Too bad the provincial gov't let this area off the hook at the time. Sure it's sour grapes, just like when amalgamation via the provincial gov't was going to take affect Tecumseh, Lasalle and Essex teamed together to stop Windsor from expanding. Thus grabbing all the available land around the city. Because of this Windsor has to continually negotiate for more land so that it can continue to attract business. How sad. Let's add that those who continually run to Lakeshore and Lasalle are the same cry babies who complain to the city that they should widen the roads because of the delays in commuting. Sorry folks but increase your OWN taxes if you want wider roads, I pay enough. I won't even get into the siphoning of decent businesses (retail) because of cheap and dare I say sprawling new plaza's in these towns from Windsor. I agree that the dithering of this and past councils created this mess but let's be honset. Toldo and Co. were not being honest with Windsor in any way, shape or form. Had they I am sure they could have waited until Oct. 4 to see if they were to get the bid. Instead they pissed on the city and it's residenst. For that, I hope it fails! As for those from Kent coming to the slots...won't happen. I do a lot of business there and most go to Sarnia or London to go out at night and rarely to Windsor. I doubt folks are going to now jump in their cars to head to the slots to save a mere 15 minutes of driving. They haven't come and they won't. If I am being negative it is only because I am being realistic. (The only place downtown where the arena should have gone is where the Glengarry projects are) | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5868 Registered: 10-2003 |
If Kent County wants slots, they'll just go to the ones in Dresden. | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 3045 Registered: 10-2003 |
Interesting debate from the south side. Talk about deja vu all over again! Once again we have a hemmed in core city in political disarray with business and tax base being siphoned off by surrounding communities but being left in care of the region's non tax generating, indeed tax consuming, poor and disabled, not to mention abandoned structures and their environmental desecrations legacies. Will it ever end? We desperately need regional development planning, indeed we need it for the whole international metropolis but there seems to be little interest. Our many borders are economically strangling us all. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8846 Registered: 10-2003 |
Agreed Lowell. But regional only equates to what's best for our bedside communities. This is how it has been played out thus far. AIW, welcome back...hope your trip was an enjoyable and safe one. Good point btw. | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5869 Registered: 10-2003 |
I can't wait. Move it to Tecumseh, it will be a collasal failure. I'm glad my taxes won't pay for it, but I'd bet $10.00 that this project will never happen. Here's a link for those interested. http://www.projecticetrack.com / | ||
Fastcarsfreedom Member Username: Fastcarsfreedom Post Number: 66 Registered: 11-2005 |
I am astonished--folks on here talk about the need for regional planning and development--but seem to be of the very provincial, navel-gazing nature that they decry. Ice Track didn't wait because Windsor's city council had already turned negative on their proposal at the Raceway. In fact, various council factions were out actively trying to drum up support for competing proposals--most of of which were in the east end of the city--something I can't imagine the many urbanists who post here would normally be in favor of--considering the east end is far more "suburban." With the unending negativity that I read here, and everyday amongst the letters to the editor in the Windsor Star, it's amazing that any out-of-town development money comes our way at all. I never read or here people talking about the many positive aspects of being located where we're located--I only here negativity and endless talk about how terrible things are here and how we're always the red-headed stepchild. The fact that there are people on here CHEERING for a development project to fail is sickening--these are people's jobs and livelihoods we're talking about. The success of the gaming component here is not in doubt. Relocation from the west end to Tecumseh is not going to adversely affect revenues at Windsor Raceway Slots. In spite of what's being said here by other posters--the relocation does alter the facility's catchment area for the better--and gives the site a more unique position when considered a competitor to CW or the Michigan casinos. Dresden, for the record, has 100 slot machines vs. 750 for Windsor. Perhaps we should market our region better to folks in southwestern Ontario instead of throwing up our hands and resigning ourselves to the fact that they're just going to "go to London anyway." | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8848 Registered: 10-2003 |
Then enjoy theI ce Park FCF. You talk a good game about regionalism but I have offered many points about the so-called regionalism played out thus far. If it does fail (and it will) then I feel sorry for those who lose their jobs. But that is the high stakes in politics which this whole mess become. That is due to the nefarious actions of Tecumseh's mayor and Toldo. Unless you know the councillors (two of which I know personally) you don't know how they were going to vote on the proposal. To add, many of the councillors have stated that they did in fact like the Ice Track proposal but they needed more information as the details changed six to seven times in the last few months. The Collavino project was brought in because it was another aspect of the whole idea of the city ridding itself of two arenas on the east side (plus a community center). Out of towners will come when Lasalle and Tecumseh start working WITH Windsor instead of against it (of course this only works when either needs something from the city). | ||
Blitz Member Username: Blitz Post Number: 196 Registered: 09-2004 |
I don't think a regional government covering all of Essex County would work too well. All I want to see is the bedroom suburbs that leach off Windsor be annexed i.e. Tecumseh and LaSalle. The province should have forced this to happen years ago. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 536 Registered: 09-2005 |
Do these numbers even add up? From the WIndsor Star today: "Friday, the owners of Windsor Raceway and their partners, including the Rosati construction group, announced a deal to build a $55-million arena, horseracing and slot machine complex at Manning Road and Highway 401 in Tecumseh." $55 million for a new arena, racetrack and slots complex? I thought the Windsor Toldo bid for a new arena alone was pegged at $55 million? The City of Windsor will be replacing those smaller arenas, so what is to stop the City from building a new arena complex complete with a 6500 seat arena for the Spits at the same time the Toldo complex is being built out in Tecumseh? If the city of Windsor moves ahead with the eastend arena complex and secures the Spits, Toldo would not want Windsor's version of a tenantless Palace of Auburn Hills. Goat is right: no AHL team is coming to the area. Would Toldo/Tecumseh be willing to build a new track and slots complex without the arena? I doubt the city of Windsor is willing to get totally embarassed on this one and end up without an arena. I wonder if Tecumseh is willing to shell out $15 million for the track and slots complex (i.e. no arena)? They might be. However, to pay $15 million to a private company in order to tranfer a revenue generating asset from the city to the town would look like dirty politics. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8850 Registered: 10-2003 |
Actually I just found out that the Cincinatti AHL team has approved the conditions for the Ice TrRack in Tecumseh. Even the higher ups in the AHL said they knew nothing of the proposal. Even so, this area cannot afford two teams anyway. I will bet that the majority of Windsorites who go to hockey games will heavily support the OHL Spitfires now. This whole fiasco even garnered attention at Queen's Park (Ontario's legislature)when an East York MPP who represents the NDP called attention to this mess. But of course the liberals of Pupatello (Windsor West) and Duncan (Windsor St.-Clair, who's riding is getting this arena) said "oh well, that's the breaks. We can't do anything about it." The NDP MPP said the city has lost enough and when will this provincial gov't step in to help this city out? Considering the job losses at Ford and the closing of the Nemak plant, this is just another blow to the city. It was all done in ill-faith by Tecumseh plain and simple. ...another reason for a regional gov't in this area. | ||
Blitz Member Username: Blitz Post Number: 197 Registered: 09-2004 |
^ Ontario won't set up a regional government in the area (Essex County is too rural and regional govts are reserved for more urbanized areas) but I'd like to see Windsor follow the route that London has taken regarding annexations. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 538 Registered: 09-2005 |
Or for Canada's 11th province.... | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 539 Registered: 09-2005 |
Blitz, as you are aware, London includes some very rural areas. Especially around Byron, Arva, Lambeth, etc. That being said, LaSalle and Tecumseh should have been annexed. Lakeshore would have made sense as well. The town of Essex could even have been included (probably). As far as the Tecumseh arena is concerned, it will not be a failure if it can attract the Spits (I cannot see an AHL team lasting more than a year or two in Windsor-Essex even if such a folly is approved). That being said, in 15 years the new facility will be dated and talk of building an arena in Windsor will again surface. I fear that even if Tecumseh gets the arena that it will be a ScotiaBank Place in the short-term (a beautiful new facility that is only accessible by car and whose location deters people from attending events there) that will eventually become a SilverDome when the Spits move back to Windsor. (Message edited by upinottawa on October 02, 2006) | ||
Blitz Member Username: Blitz Post Number: 198 Registered: 09-2004 |
Yeah....Middlesex County didn't go regional, they just let London go nuts with the annexing. Windsor needs western Lakeshore as well since it's starting to get sprawl happy. I'd leave out the town of Essex - basically just give us the northwestern quadrant of Essex County and we'll be happy. I can't see the Spits moving way out there, it's too far from the population centre. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8852 Registered: 10-2003 |
Spits are nto going there but the AHL team from Cinci has o.k'ed the conditions. It is now up to the AHL to approve of the move. That might not be so easy! I bet that Windsor now builds the Collavino project (unfortunately too much tax dollars for my liking)and the Spits will stay. The Spits supported the Collavino project anyway. Sadly, Windsor can't annex anything because the province won't allow it. So now, the city is hemmed in just like Detroit is. We all know who is on the losing end of this charade despite what FCF likes to project. | ||
Yupislyr Member Username: Yupislyr Post Number: 156 Registered: 07-2004 |
From AM800: The American Hockey League is approving the sale of the inactive Cincinatti franchise to the owners of the Ice Track Arena in Tecumseh. League President Dave Andrews says the board has voted in favour of the deal and he expects it will be completed in about 60 days. The team has no existing infrastructure or N.H.L. affiliation and Andrews says that's essential in the A.H.L. From the AHL itself: "The American Hockey League’s Board of Governors today granted conditional approval of the sale and relocation of the inactive AHL franchise owned by Gardens Hockey Inc. of Cincinnati, Ohio, to Ice Track Corporation of Windsor, Ont." http://www.theahl.com/AHL/News /2006/10/02/1936296.html | ||
Yupislyr Member Username: Yupislyr Post Number: 157 Registered: 07-2004 |
I was looking at other stuff and fell upon a Windsor city councillor's weblog. Some interesting stuff that was news to me. He indicates that rumours were flying about a possible arena/raceway in Tecumseh deal for weeks before this announcement was made, and at least part of ctiy council was well aware of it. Threats were made that if a decision wasn't made by the end of September, then Mayor Francis would have some competition for the election. (Last Friday was the deadline to run for election, the same day this big news unfolded) http://www.votealan2006.com/in dex.php?option=com_content&tas k=view&Itemid=87&id=36 In response, a special meeting was called to debate the arena issue... in October. http://www.votealan2006.com/in dex.php?option=com_content&tas k=view&Itemid=87&id=41 He also posted some other interesting bits in yesterday's weblog post (Message edited by yupislyr on October 02, 2006) | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 540 Registered: 09-2005 |
With this proposed AHL franchise, this arena fiasco is getting more and more bizarre. I cannot believe that the Toldo group has essentially given up on its Windsor proposal in order to chase an AHL franchise in Tecumseh. Does this make good business sense? Is there a more elaborate plan here that would see Windsor's city council accept the original Toldo Windsor arena plan in order to save the track's gambling revenue from going to Tecumseh? Is this upping the ante, in the guise of folding and going to play at the neighbour's place? | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5870 Registered: 10-2003 |
If it happens, good for them. The AHL is a quality product, and if they land a team, I would probably even go to some games. The OHL doesn't really interest me, I haven't been to a game in probably 10 years. The quality just isn't there, afterall these are 16 & 17 year old kids. The AHL is pro hockey, it is an NHL style league. Plus there is an opportunity to devellop rivalries with Toronto and Hamilton. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 541 Registered: 09-2005 |
I cannot imagine that there is room for both teams in this market. The Spits have a loyal fan base. Even if the Spits are playing in the barn they will outdraw any Windsor AHL team. I am still shaking my head at this one. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 542 Registered: 09-2005 |
From today's Windsor Star: Tough road for AHL in Canada Bob Duff, Windsor Star Published: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 Do you really think the American Hockey League is going to fly in Essex County? Ask the people of Cornwall. Or Quebec City. Or St. Catharines. Or Moncton. Or Saint John. Or St. John's. Or Cape Breton. Or Halifax. Or Newmarket. Or Charlottetown. Or Edmonton. Or Fredericton. Or Sherbrooke. All of these Canadian cities were home to AHL franchises in the past two decades. Not one of them still is and nine of them ceased to exist in the last 10 years. Fifteen Canadian franchises have come and gone from the AHL since the 1980s. Of the three that remain - Hamilton, Toronto and Manitoba - only the latter could be classified as being on solid footing. Welcome to your future, Tecumseh, one filled with red ink and a hasty exit. Got your chequebook handy? Yes, the big news Monday was that the AHL board of governors had been granted conditional approval of the sale and relocation of the inactive AHL franchise owned by Gardens Hockey Inc. of Cincinnati to Windsor's IceTrack Corporation, the driving force behind Project IceTrack, which announced Friday its plans to construct a 6,500-seat arena in Tecumseh. Before you get the party started, let's make a few things clear. Conditional approval of a sale is a long way from a finalized purchase. Remember when Saskatoon purchased the St. Louis Blues? They said that was a done deal, too. A number of conditions must be met for the sale to be approved. Among them, there must be an arena in place. An NHL club willing to utilize Tecumseh as its affiliate needs to be secured. The Windsor Spitfires are supposed to be cowering in the corner with fear over this latest development. Yet at Windsor Arena Monday, Spits coach Bob Boughner was running practice and director of player personnel Warren Rychel was taking care of a number of tasks on his plate. In other words, it was business as usual. "We're battlers," said Rychel, who purchased the team earlier this year with Boughner and Pete Dobrich. "We've never backed down from a fight." The AHL was formed in 1936 when the Canadian-American League and the International-American Leagues merged. One of the teams that didn't survive the cut during the merger was the Windsor Bulldogs, who folded following the 1935-36 IAHL season. Minor pro hockey failed here then and it is destined to fail here now. Cincinnati, a city of 2.1 million, couldn't support an AHL club. How on earth will they make a go of it in this town, with the auto industry in turmoil and the economy apparently headed toward a significant downturn? Windsor is a junior town and that's what it always will be. Ontario Hockey League commissioner Dave Branch, who also serves as president of the Canadian Hockey League, came to Windsor Monday to throw his support behind the Spitfires, who are in favour of an east-side Windsor location for their new home. Branch described an AHL franchise in Tecumseh as "an intriguing initiative," but wasn't worried for the future of the Spitfires. "Overall, we believe the OHL and the Windsor Spitfires brand will stand the test," Branch said. Branch noted that many of the cities that were home to failed AHL franchises now house very successful junior clubs. The AHL is the second-best league on the planet, but brings with it a pricetag that includes higher operating costs and that means higher ticket prices for you. At this point in time, can Essex County really afford it? © The Windsor Star 2006 | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5871 Registered: 10-2003 |
I wouldn't be so sure Ottawa, I think there is room in this market for both. They are two completly different products. Ottawa has both the NHL Senators and the OHL 67's. Toronto and Philadelphia support both and NHL and AHL franchise. However, IMO, for this to really work, the only way would be for the Icetack people to secure an affiliation with the Red Wings. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 543 Registered: 09-2005 |
Aiw, I think your points are fair, but I am unaware of an Ontario city (other than Toronto or Ottawa) that can support an OHL team and a professional team (such as an AHL team). I realize that the Detroit market may contribute some fans to a Windsor AHL team, however even a thousand fans a night from Metro Detroit would not make Windsor a viable market for both an OHL and an AHL team. The above being said, should the Tecumseh group wrestle the Red Wings affliation from Grand Rapids, I will eat my words. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 544 Registered: 09-2005 |
Of course, the Detroit Red Wings will always be the number one hockey draw in the Windsor area. The Spits already compete with the Wings. Now the Spits and Team 401 will be competing with each other to get the scraps that have not gone to the Wings. I am not sure Windsor can support an NHL team, an OHL team, and an AHL team.... We must also not forget that the Pistons and Lions play during the hockey season as well. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8855 Registered: 10-2003 |
The AHL team will crash and burn. The Toronto Marlies can barely keep their head above ice (get it  ) and they have over 2 million people in the city. Windsor will not cash in on any Detroit demographics because the area has an NHL team, an OHL team and an AHL team. I don't think The Wings are going to secure an affiliation with the team in Tecumseh because their farm club is doing exactly what they intended it to do. No use in in ripping that up and moving it here. With all of the layoffs (with no jobs coming back) recently I doubt many people are going to shell out $30.00+ for tickets to see an AHL team that couldn't make it in Cinci. Spits tikets are much more affordable and the fans much more loyal. I think Windsor citizens will barely go due to the way this was handled. So where are the demographics for this team? Tecumseh, Lakeshore, Essex and possibly LaSalle...doesn't add up for potential population stats. The reason Ottawa can have both an NHL team and an OHL team is that the city itself has more population than Windsor and more money to boot. Yupislyer, I know the website very well and have been in contact with Mr. Halberstadt on numerous occasions. He is a great councillor and should have no problem with a re-election. I am still in favour of tering down the Glengarry projects (next dor to the Casino) and bulidng a new arena there. Build a new twin pad in the east end and be done with it. I still hope that the Ice Track crumbles before Tecumsehs ego driven eyes. There has always been bad blood between the city and county (penis envy perhaps?) and it is time for the city to stand up and let these county politicians know that we are the engine in this county not them. Too add further insult in this mess and with blame to share. How is it that McNamara a heavy Liberal supporter woos Toldo another heavy Liberal supporter into making this move so quickly (without giving Windsor the benefit of a couple of days to decide)all the while Pupatello, the Ontario Economic Minister knows nothing and Duncan the Energy Minister (who's riding this is going to) knows nothing; At the same time a $1,000-a-plate dinner to be held in the next month for the ruling Liberals being hosted by Toldo...and they knew nothing?! Oh, that is so telling of this gov't and their political contributors. They can all kiss my ass. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 546 Registered: 09-2005 |
I posted this elsewhere, but here are my predictions: My uneducated guess is that Tecumseh never sees an AHL franchise. My prediction is that in the next few months the arena ownership group will examine the market for AHL hockey in Windsor-Essex and find that there is not enough support in the area for both the Spits and an AHL team. The ownership group will then purposely fail to sign as an affiliate with an NHL team and the idea will die on a lawyer's desk. At the same time, the Tecumseh plan will spur Windsor's city council to build the east end arena complex. The Spits will stay in Windsor at this east end complex. The Ice Track will still be built at the 401 and Manning with significantly less than 6500 seats. Minor Hockey associations in Tecumseh, Essex, and Lakeshore will be the primary users of the Tecumseh facility. Our Lady Peace will play there once a year. The Slots will move to the ice track but royalties will continue (in some percentage) to be sent to Windsor. There will be politicial interference on that decision as Duncan will recognize that most of his riding resides in the city. Just for fun: In another 20 years city council demolishes the Chrysler headquaters to build a new arena with a "Norwich block feel" to it. | ||
Fastcarsfreedom Member Username: Fastcarsfreedom Post Number: 67 Registered: 11-2005 |
It's good to see Aiw is positive about the opportunity for AHL hockey in Windsor and at least willing to entertain the idea that it might be successful. Frankly, I'm positive too--I don't think success is an open-and-shut case--but I think it's possible with good marketing and a good on-ice product. Yes, the area is saturated with hockey teams--but this is still a hockey/sports-oriented city. And yes, this would be a WINDSOR franchise--as someone who lives in dreaded Tecumseh, I find it amusing how all the haters of this proposal are referring to this as a "Tecumseh" AHL franchise--are these people being serious or is this spin? Were the Ottawa Senators a Kanata NHL franchise before amalgamation? Auburn Hills Pistons? Goat--I believe it's possible to be pro-Windsor and pro-County--being either to the exclusion of the other is to be anti-everything as far as I'm concerned. Your anti-County attitude is what drives anti-Windsor feelings in the suburbs. We are an inter-connected and inter-dependent series of communities--this is not "us" and "them". And for those of you who advocate amalgamation as an alternative...let me share the experiences of my birthplace of Hamilton. When the government forced amalgamtion in Hamilton--the suburbs howled. Most city residents were indifferent. Taxes in the "old" City of Hamilton did not decrease, taxes in the suburbs rose. Cost savings are minimal. Interestingly, several other message boards I post to which are pro-urban in their mandate have turned sour on amalgamation in Hamilton--why? The growth, you see, is in the "former" suburbs (which are still considered evil, sprawl ridden dens of SUV-dom)--and so the political power is in constant shift from the former City of Hamilton--to the suburban belt around it--where the population nearly equals that of the former core city--and where the demographics and political motivation mean generally higher voter turnout. Since amalgamation both Mayors have been "suburban" (Wade, of Ancaster; di Ianni of Stoney Creek) and there is much bitterness and knashing of teeth over this fact--particularly going into the coming elections. So, for those in the City that feel amalgamation is the way-to-go to silence suburban sprawl--I assure you sprawl will continute unabated (it's what Windsor wants the land for anyway)--and instead of getting the Mayor YOU want, you may end up with the Mayor WE want. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8861 Registered: 10-2003 |
FCF, I am not anti-county as I do believe in regionalism. But it seems that the county tries to screw Windsor every chance they get as I have indicated above. It is not the other way around. Sure in the '50s Windsor annexed portions of the county but that is what a growing city does. A city cannot grow without land and the county has plenty of it. When the arrogance of politicians (and many of the people) of Tecumseh and LaSalle subsides maybe then we can look at regionalism which benefits BOTH areas. But until then I will push for the city to get whatever it can whenever it can. Thanks for the insight on amaglamation. I know others that liked the change for them. But to each their own. If the county would stop holding the city hostage then the animosity will hopefully subside. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 547 Registered: 09-2005 |
FCF, of course this will be a Windsor franchise. The AHL has had a very checkered recent past with Canadian franchises and most former-AHL Canadian cities have moved on to major junior hockey. I don't know why people think Windsor will buck the trend and maintain its OHL team to boot. The main reason that I am against the Spits moving to the Ice Track (not saying this will happen) is that the Ice Track will have minimal spin off benefit for local businesses. Even if the Ice Track was downtown Tecumseh, at least Tecumseh restaurants would benefit. With the arena at 401 and Manning the Gretzky restaurant will do a decent business (on game and event nights only), but no one else will benefit. Most people will take EC Row or the 401 to get to Manning. They won't be stopping to eat in Tecumseh (in fact they will not even enter actual town). This arena is not suburban -- it is exurban. I still like a premier single pad arena downtown. Please come to Ottawa to check out the ScotiaBank Place. It is a 40/60 minute drive from downtown on a week/game night. It takes 20-50 minutes to get out of the parking lot after the games. The arena's location is the number one cited reason Ottawa hockey fans choose to not attend games in person. I will be at the home opener on Thursday and I am dreading eating at the arena and spending 2 hours in the car. | ||
Yupislyr Member Username: Yupislyr Post Number: 158 Registered: 07-2004 |
Oh man, this is never going to end. From am800's website Two more city arena proponents have come forward expressing interest in building a new arena in Windsor. Westpark Developments out of Hamilton and Concorde Contracting out of Windsor submitted a joint letter this morning asking city council to delay a decision tomorrow so that they can discuss with council their proposal. They are proposing an arena complex on the former Grace Hospital site or the former Western Super Anchor site. A second group Norr Architects have also expressed interest in building a 42 million dollar arena in the downtown. | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5872 Registered: 10-2003 |
I think Ottawa's prediction might be spot on. No AHL team will ever take the ice in Essex County. Also please note that the only way I said this would work is to secure the AHL rights to the Red Wings. Other than that it won't fly. As for the Grace Hospital site? Why not. It's downtown enough to satisfy me. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 548 Registered: 09-2005 |
Well, it looks like something will eventually happen. If anything the Tecumseh proposal should ensure the city builds something in the near future. I am still sold on a premier single pad facility downtown coupled with a multipad facility somewhere on the east end. I realize that such a proposal would be the most expensive option. I still think in the long run it would be better for the city. I also still think that the city should approach the university and St. Clair College to be partners at this complex. During the day, the rink could be used for varsity practices and house league games. At night, when the Spits are not in town, the College and University teams could play there. The multipad facility is also a priority as the city appears to want to replace its existing aging east end arenas. Money has been put aside for such projects. At this point, I am of the view that the city will consolidate its premier rink with its multipad facility (as per the east end complex). Surely this will be the cheapest option and the easiest option to sell to Windsorites. Unfortunately, it is not the best option for enhancing the city's downtown. That's politics for you. But at least the city will finally get something built. For that, you can thank the Toldo Group. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8863 Registered: 10-2003 |
I like the idea of an arena on the Grace site as well. I aam only a block away but I think it would really help that area especially University ave w. It is close enough to downtown to have an impact in the area yet far enough away that it doesn't take up key real estate for people who want to move downtown. The problem is that the east side needs its arenas replaced. Is the city willing to build one 6,500 seat arena near the downtown and twin pads for the east side? I believe that the 6,500 seat arena and mulitpad complex will be built on the east side even though the costs are too high. As for the other companies now coming on board, well....that boat has sailed. As for an arena on the "Western Super Anchor" site, that is not going to happen. The city has already put its money on the urban village (a wise choice). | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5873 Registered: 10-2003 |
Thanks for the laugh of the day Goat. People who want to move downtown... Yeah, all six of them. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8864 Registered: 10-2003 |
I forgot who we have for Manager of Urban Planning and Design. Mybad. | ||
Walkerpub Member Username: Walkerpub Post Number: 100 Registered: 12-2003 |
The city admin and council could screw up a cup of coffee- still not sure why we taxpayers should subsidize a hockey team- I guess roads and sewers aren't a high priority. Ever wonder why there are so many SUVs in Windsor? You need them to drive on our streets! So far the math looks like this: a 6,500 seat entertainment facility by Casino Windsor, plus 6,500 seat arena by IceTrack, plus whatever the city decides tonight = taxpayers getting screwed provincially and locally! Tonight's council meeting will be a fiasco. As an aside, ever wonder why Gord Henderson of The Star never has a bad word to say about Eddie? | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 551 Registered: 09-2005 |
Walker, Gord probably doesn't want Hurst to make a comeback | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5876 Registered: 10-2003 |
I think Eddie has done a piss poor job. I'm leaning toward the Wonham for mayor camp, since it appears that Ernie Lamont isn't running this time around. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 552 Registered: 09-2005 |
Walker, I realize the Casino convention centre was paid for using tax dollars, however from the perspective of a Windsorite, isn't better that the provincial money was spent in Windsor rather than in Vaughn or on a 4-lane highway to cottage country? I think Windsor did quite well with the Casino expansion especially with the Cleary being used as a downtown campus. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 554 Registered: 09-2005 |
from am800cklw.com: "No more delays! That from Ward 4 councillor Ken Lewenza Junior, who says city council needs to make a decision tonight regarding a new arena for Windsor. AM 800 News will have updates on tonights talks every half hour starting at 6 with breaking news should a decision be made." I really fear a rushed decision tonight. I hope the 2 downtown proposals will be given a fair hearing. This will not happen in one council meeting. | ||
Walkerpub Member Username: Walkerpub Post Number: 101 Registered: 12-2003 |
It's a done deal- bring on the dancing horses... | ||
Yupislyr Member Username: Yupislyr Post Number: 159 Registered: 07-2004 |
I watched the meeting and there was another interesting development in that Marriott hotels was one of the delegations in support of the proposal. Their rep was claiming that they would build a hotel near the site of the new east end arena. | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5877 Registered: 10-2003 |
Great, nothing like my tax dollars being used to help take business away from downtown. Assclowns. What a terrible decision. Turning what should be the city's showplace arena into a neighborhood rink. Fuck it's depressing to live in this city. | ||
Walkerpub Member Username: Walkerpub Post Number: 102 Registered: 12-2003 |
amen to andrew! | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 555 Registered: 09-2005 |
Getting a complex such as this for under $50 million plus land is a good deal. However, despite Mayor Francis' claims that he wants to revive downtown, this deal is a huge opportunity lost for the core. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8867 Registered: 10-2003 |
I watched the entire "debate" on tv last night as I wanted to speak to council. I was unable to get the request in on time (Ever wonder why you have to give them a days notice??). Anyhow, I thought for sure they were going to go with a 30 day deferral especially since two new proposals were on the block. The one I liked best was the Grace Hospital site owned by Concorde (my reasons are posted above). Though I still lke the idea of tearing down Glengarry to build the arena there as well. Marriot was coming on board and I am sure they would have built a hotel anywhere this arena was going to be placed. As mentioned above by others this is a squandered opportunity. NOt because the arena is a be all and end all for downtown, but it would have been just on the edges of downtown where it could have been a family venue yet still have an impact on the downtown area. Instead, it is being placed on the far east side somewhere as a location still hasn't been found (that, in itself is a joke). The Marriot is being built at Banwell! The last time I checked, this city was concerned with the downtown and yet it continues down the path of sprawl, sprawl, sprawl! Anyone with half a brain knows that the downtown of any city is the heartbeat of that city. If the downtown dies, then the city dies with it and the suburbs will continue to grow. UIO, That price tag does not include the cost of a yet to be determined piece of land (I bet the mayor's friend gets his asking price now doesn't he? How convenient!). The only good thing that I see about this is at least the city can pay cash for this. AIW, I agree, Dr. Wonham is looking better each day. I need to find more info about his ideas before I will put my vote behind him. But he is looking better each passing day. I do have to say that the mayor and council have at least fixed most of the city's finances which wasn't an easy task. But I will not pay any extra taxes to build this glorified neghbourhood rink. | ||
Tkelly1986 Member Username: Tkelly1986 Post Number: 129 Registered: 01-2004 |
looks like Winsor got its AHL team http://www.lowelldevilshockey. com/theteam/teamnews/ahlnews10 0206.php | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8869 Registered: 10-2003 |
It is a "conditonal" approval and it is The Town of Tecumseh not Windsor. ...still betting that Windsor get a payout from OGLC for the slots. | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3828 Registered: 10-2003 |
For those of us on the north shore, here's a link to the Windsor Star's report: http://www.canada.com/windsors tar/news/story.html?id=923308d f-b061-4fec-b07a-3cc2eb611e16& k=20930 | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5880 Registered: 10-2003 |
The biggest problem is that shit eating grin on MPP Sandra Pupatello, who is Windsor's most useless politician in power since Herb "40 years of keepin' the seat warm" Grey. I hope that POOPatello is handed her walking papers next year. Nothing like taking jobs and revenue OUT of your riding. | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5881 Registered: 10-2003 |
Goat -> http://wonhamformayor.blogspot .com/ | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8871 Registered: 10-2003 |
Thanks for the link AIW. I agree 100% about Pupatello and Duncan for that matter. What's the Energy Minister doing going to functions relating to the economy (new business openings and the like)? Duncan and Pupatello are nothing more than photo opportunists. | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5882 Registered: 10-2003 |
At least it is in Duncan's riding... The fat useless turd. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 556 Registered: 09-2005 |
Goat: in fairness, that is what Cabinet Ministers do (i.e. pose for photos). Any announcement or function held in an MP's riding is fair game for that MP regardless of cabinet portfolio (or lack thereof). | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8872 Registered: 10-2003 |
Considering how our energy prices are sky rocketing and Duncan hasn't done a fucking thing to help the average homeowner. Maybe he should stay in the office and work on that problem instead of trying to get his fat head in pictures that he had nothing to do with. I disagree that is what cabinet ministers do. I see several cabinet ministers from other parties and jurisdications that are not photo hogs who do their jobs diligently. Maybe the Liberals can learn a thing or two from them? Though I doubt it. Now I ask. What has Duncan or Pupatello done for Windsor? <crickets> | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 557 Registered: 09-2005 |
Goat, not to get too far off topic, but I am sure Duncan and/or Pupatello were influential with respect to both the Casino expansion and the new medical school. That being said, they were not influential enough to get the Casino a smoking exception and the medical school is only about 1/5 the size of a real medical school. Windsor is still very well represented in terms of senior cabinet ministers (as far as numbers are concerned), although I suspect you may argue that quantity does not equal quality. Either way, by keeping their noses out of the Tecumseh Ice Track deal, Windsor will finally get a new home for the Spits (even if it should have been built downtown). | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8875 Registered: 10-2003 |
You nailed it UIO. Quantity doesn't equal quality. Especially with those two who have had high profile positions. As for the Casino expansion...they had to do it! They have to compete with three more across the river. That was a no-brainer. But they might as well have saved the money because the patrons aren't there due to their stupid smoking ban. Thanks for the discourse : ) | ||
Fastcarsfreedom Member Username: Fastcarsfreedom Post Number: 68 Registered: 11-2005 |
Goat!--We agree on something...the smoking ban is stupid! Pupatello and Duncan had absolutely NOTHING to do with the CW expansion. The expansion has been on the table since the late 1990s for the market site--which is why the OLGC bought the land in the first place. The whole thing was ready to move forward in 2001 but was derailed by the 9/11 attacks which temporarily put CW in extreme peril. It's revival was a given, especially with the rival properties in Detroit. The OLGC finished it's expansion at Rama and the construction of Fallsview and naturally turned their attention to CW. The smoking ban hurts--the expansion and renos will help. As for the arena...wow...where to start. A week ago everyone on here was telling Tecumseh to go eat kim-chee over Ice Track. Now Windsor jumps in with a proposal for an Arena not only on the eastside--but literally across the street from the Town of Tecumseh--assuming the Banwell rumours are true. While it is close to the Expressway--I have to agree this is a huge opportunity lost for Downtown. If Ice Track goes ahead these venues will be WAY too close to each other and will literally eat each other's lunch--neither will thrive. I think Toldo/Rosati is committed to at least moving the Raceway and Slots--remains to be seen what impact this decision in Windsor will have on their arena component. A Fairfield Inn on Banwell is a nice touch--glad to hear that announcement. Assuming this 4 pad complex competes for the big regional minor hockey tournaments--that could be a pretty lucrative location for a hotel--at least on weekends. | ||
Blitz Member Username: Blitz Post Number: 199 Registered: 09-2004 |
^ That's an issue in Windsor too, there are currently no motels east of Howard Ave. I was hoping for an arena downtown too but since that's not going to happen, they better get moving on the urban village. I don't understand why Wonham would get anyone's support, he has zero political experience and he's in the same boat as the other two no-names running for mayor. What makes him better than them, the fact that he was a doctor? Makes no sense. | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5885 Registered: 10-2003 |
When Francis ran for council he had zero experience too. He served a term and a half, now he's mayor. The doctor isn't Eddie Francis, that's the number one thing he has going for him. Also he's 69, life experience counts for something doesn't it? Why support him? It's clear after one term that Francis can't/won't do anything. The city financially is in better shape than when Francis took over, but as a resident, my quality of life is ass. It hasn't improved one bit. If anything my ward, and downtown are in worse shape that when he came in. I like his header from his website:
So far the fact that he's not wearing rose colored glasses, and the fact that he can call a turd a turd impresses me. That being said, I need to know where he stands on some topics that are important to me before I make up my mind. Last time around, Hurst was gone, and a new era in Windsor Municipal Politics was ready to unfold. It was Francis vs. Marra, and thankfully, the right man won, it would have been even shittier with Mini-Hurst Bill Marra in the Mayor's seat. This time around? Maybe Wonham will be the right man for the job. He has been advocating for the creation of a museum with the Chimchuck funds for quite a while now. There's another decision that this council hasn't been able to make. Time will tell very soon if Wonham is a contender or a pretender. If you're curious, here's his website http://www.windsorcitycouncil. com/ - it's a little light in actual content though... | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8878 Registered: 10-2003 |
The one thing that has put me off somewhat with regards to Dr. Wonham is his remark that the Urban Village is not viable! He said jobs is the number one factor. Well, building the urban village will bring jobs. People moving downtown will bring jobs...so I find his remark somewhat odd. I am going to speak to him one on one so that he can explain further what he meant. Dr. Wonham is still an interesting candidate that warrants more than a second glance. | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5886 Registered: 10-2003 |
I don't know Goat, if it was such a viable project why has it not moved forward? Maybe the doctor is on to something? | ||
Blitz Member Username: Blitz Post Number: 200 Registered: 09-2004 |
Francis spent time on city council before running for mayor, I have no issues with someone running for city council who has no experience. You get your feet wet on council and then you run for mayor. Throwing some clueless person into the top seat will just set things back further. Francis hasn't been perfect but he hasn't been awful either. I'm sure it'll be a landslide victory for him. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8879 Registered: 10-2003 |
The city hasn't advertised it as of yet. They have not gone after developers due to the budgets and this arena deal. Now that the arena has ben put to rest they may be able to land swap with a developer and get to going. I do know that they said overall completion would be about 20 years. So hopefully something soon...besides, without residents living downtown a downtown will never be viable. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 577 Registered: 09-2005 |
I am not sure if everyone saw this from last Thursday's Windsor Star. Gord Henderson really gives it to Goat's girlfriend Sandra. Slots move hurts kids Gord Henderson, Windsor Star Published: Thursday, October 12, 2006 Close to 14,000 Windsor children from low-income families and struggling neighbourhoods have benefitted over the last 20 months from the raceway slots revenues that well-heeled Tecumseh is trying to hijack. Lost amid all the snickering over how the city got snookered by Tecumseh in the arena wars is this sad reality: Windsor kids will be the obvious losers if the town succeeds in snatching the roughly $2.4 million the city receives annually as its share of slots revenue. One of former city mayor Mike Hurst's more insightful initiatives was the Windsor Community Children's Fund, which directs 10 per cent of the city's raceway slots revenue directly into programs to help disadvantaged kids. The rest now goes into smaller capital projects and to pay down debt. Run out of the mayor's office during the Hurst years, the six-year-old Children's Fund is now administered by the social services department but continues to fund children's programs run by community organizations. "A lot of the money goes toward school breakfast programs," said Shannon Hyatt, children's services system manager with social services. She explained that huge numbers of kids from troubled home environments come to school on empty bellies and would go hungry all day if it weren't for nutrition programs sponsored by the fund. More than $200,000 of $349,000 allocated to community organizations in 2005 and the first eight months of 2006 went directly into this battle to keep kids warm and nourished and able to focus on their studies. Slots money paid for snacks, backpacks and winter clothing. It went to the Teen Health Centre to provide young moms with diapers and other essentials for their babies, as well as education on healthy food choices. It let the Salvation Army Community and Rehabilitation Centre purchase safe cribs for newborns and single beds for toddlers. It assisted the shoe and boot program of the Windsor Goodfellows Club in filling close to 1,200 requests for footwear for kids from low-income families. "We put the money into community agencies because they know the families and the pressures they face," explained Hyatt. She said the money has overwhelmingly gone to pay for the basics and that's what's now at risk if the slots revenue dries up. She said it would create "a real void" because the programs fill a genuine need and recipients depend on them. I wonder how Tecumseh politicians can sleep at night knowing their arena plan is based, in part, on taking slots money away from city programs that benefit needy kids. And I wonder how our Liberal cabinet ministers, Dwight Duncan and Sandra Pupatello, can look themselves in the mirror after greenlighting this outrage perpetrated on their most defenceless constituents. Tecumseh, to be blunt about it, doesn't need that $2.4 million. It's a middle-class bedroom community so far removed from the poverty that afflicts Windsor that it might as well be gated. You could probably count its genuine hardship cases on two hands. According to social services, 7,359 of this area's 8,481 active social services cases are in Windsor. In the greater Tecumseh area, which includes parts of Lakeshore and Windsor east of Lauzon Road and south of E.C. Row, there are a mere 108. Think about it. Windsor is trying to support entire brigades of the needy. Meanwhile, a community that doesn't know hardship is proposing to walk away with a fund that was surely designed to compensate host communities for the myriad social ills that accompany gambling. It's madness because even if the slots move to Tecumseh, the fallout will continue to land on Windsor. When people lose it all, be it to a bad run with Lady Luck or some other personal disaster, they gravitate to urban centres to utilize public transit and take advantage of services ranging from public housing to food banks. In other words, all of the negatives would remain in place for Windsor while Tecumseh pads its bank account for decades to come with our designated slots revenue. It boggles the mind that Pupatello, who has thousands of social service recipients and countless poor kids in her Windsor West riding, is refusing to accept any blame. Pupatello knows full well she and her cabinet colleagues could, if they had the guts, make it clear to the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Commission that the slots money must stay where it will do the most good for the most people, right here in Windsor. ghenderson@thestar.canwest.com © The Windsor Star 2006 | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8896 Registered: 10-2003 |
...and he was right on the money! BTW: You can swoon over horse face all you want. Enjoy! | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 578 Registered: 09-2005 |
Thanks Goat, I'm good. More Gord Henderson on Sandra: Unable to escape Gord Henderson, Windsor Star Published: Saturday, October 14, 2006 Talk about getting the day off on the wrong foot. I woke Friday with Sandra Pupatello's warrior princess voice, which registers about three times louder on the Richter scale than a North Korean nuclear bomb, bellowing in my left ear. I'm deaf in that ear now. But it could have been worse. For a split second, I saw the grim reaper hovering over me. And then it dawned. That doomsday rant was thundering through the bedside radio, on a report from CBE Queen's Park reporter Robert Fisher. Fisher told listeners it's good that government and opposition benches are separated by two sword lengths because that's all that kept the Windsor West MPP and economic development minister from laying a whupping on her relentless interrogator, NDP critic Michael Prue. Dang, I groaned. Not again. The last thing I want to do is keep picking at this scab -- the backroom arena deal with Tecumseh that deprives Pupatello's west-end Windsor riding of major entertainment facilities and invaluable funding -- forever and a day. I want to move on. I want, for starters, to question how trustees with the Greater Taj Mahal School Board, previously known as the Windsor-Essex Catholic District School Board, could find the gall to award themselves 118 per cent retroactive pay increases after presiding over runaway construction spending debacles involving the twin palaces, St. Joseph and St. Anne high schools. How gargantuan would these pre-election raises have been if they hadn't dumped this appalling fiscal mess on ratepayers? Unfortunately, few of us know who our trustees are anymore. And even fewer give a damn, certainly not enough to vote the bumblers out. But the Pupatello spectacle is irresistible. Prue was on her case much of last week and again Thursday, and judging by her ferocious reaction, his poison darts are beginning to penetrate her armour. BREAKFAST PROGRAMS Prue, citing my column Thursday, which described how Windsor's raceway slots revenue supports breakfast programs and other initiatives that help needy children, demanded to know why Pupatello is failing to stand up for Windsor in its fight to retain those revenues. ". . . You now refuse to be involved in the only program that actually delivers food to poor children in Windsor. If you won't stand up for Windsor and its council, what will you do to ensure that these children are actually fed?" Prue demanded. An angry Pupatello challenged him to come to her riding "and count the number of cranes that are up and working in my city right now; the number of new lanes down highways because we have invested like never before in basic infrastructure in my city." Prue wasn't satisfied: "Minister, why can't you stand up for Windsor and its most vulnerable constituents: the children of your community, the kids who will lose their breakfast program because of your inaction?" Pupatello went ballistic, yelling that only the NDP would characterize the action going on in Windsor as inaction. "There has never been so much action between our government and the city of Windsor." And then, oddly, she reached out to Windsor Mayor Eddie Francis for backup. She urged Prue to "call the mayor . . . and ask him how he feels the provincial government has worked with the City of Windsor; about the idea that for the first time in many years the city residents have seen a property tax decrease because of our investments in that city." And again: "Perhaps you would like to call the mayor of my city and ask what kind of support that we, the cabinet ministers and our member from Essex, have been to our city residents, for the first time in 12 years investing in children's services." Prue's questions were never answered. But there's a whiff of desperation, and perhaps the calling in of an IOU, in a cabinet minister seeking confirmation she's doing a good job from the mayor of a city that's just been left twisting in the wind by that same government. What Pupatello must surely know, and what Duncan should be learning if he weren't so busy making himself invisible on this issue, is that one unforgivable stunt can overshadow years of solid work. I understand a couple of good news announcements are coming next week, and man, does Windsor ever need them. But it's human nature that we never forget a shafting. It festers forever. Unless, of course, a way is found to either undo the misdeed or compensate Windsor handsomely for future losses. ghenderson@thestar.canwest.com © The Windsor Star 2006 | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8897 Registered: 10-2003 |
Duncan is only visible when he needs his face on the TV and in newsprint (IE: Good deeds that he really had nothing to do with. Like factories opening up and the like). Considering his abyssmal performance as Energy Minister what else would or should we expect? As for Pupatello...Ditto! Nothing like shafting her constituents. Hopefully they feel the wrath of the voters next year. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 580 Registered: 09-2005 |
Goat, unless Pupatello loses her riding association (unlikely) seh will be the Liberals candidate in Windsor-West in the October 2007 election. If one does not vote for Pupatello, who should they vote for? The NDP? The Tories led by John (I hate Windsor) Tory? Pupatello should easily return to office next fall. | ||
Walkerpub Member Username: Walkerpub Post Number: 103 Registered: 12-2003 |
Remind me again- why doesn't Gord Henderson have a bad word to say about Eddie? | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5904 Registered: 10-2003 |
Gay lovers? | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 3121 Registered: 10-2003 |
Wow, this issue has spread beyong the Raceway. It looks like a double whammy for Windsor and downtown W especially. Interesting and insightful discussion. Thanks. Now for some questions and comments. This line from Gordon Henderson reminds me what has happened over and over again to a little town to the north of Windsor: "It's madness because even if the slots move to Tecumseh, the fallout will continue to land on Windsor. When people lose it all, be it to a bad run with Lady Luck or some other personal disaster, they gravitate to urban centres to utilize public transit and take advantage of services ranging from public housing to food banks." [He could have added "becasue they can't afford to live in Tecumseh"] So let me get this straight. Tecumseh gets the raceway with the more important slots revenue, Windsor gets a new Spitfire arena out on the srawl edge and Tecumseh also [may?] gets an ice-arena and another AHL team? And downtown W gets the shaft? What happens to the current [and historic] Spitfire arena? Regarding Chimczuk will, how far can C$2.5 million go for any museum. If construction, collection and archival costs don't use that up, wouldn't a couple of years of operating cost devour that much? It seems like a nice idea [Name-it-after-me ego gratification aside] but a little short on cash leaving who? to keep that name on the open sign. It will have to be the world's smallest museum to fit that budget. And..."...go eat kim-chee" WTF? Is this Canadian slang? Best I can find is that is a Korean radish. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8898 Registered: 10-2003 |
Lowell, Chimzuk (SP?) was a loner and only requested his money be spent on a community museum that would benefit the city and it's citizens. The man didn't care if his name was on it or not. It was to be added to the cost of the museum and not the whole cost itself. The current arena would probably be demo'd and the projects either expanded (like we need that!) or used for...gasp! Parking! Lowell you are correct that Windsor once again, gets the shaft. UIO, I would rather NDP than horse face and John Tory doesn't hate Windsor...he is just a realist when it came to the expansion (no smoking, higher dollar, increased problems with new border crossing). A Tory candidate would not win so I would vouch for strategic voting in this case. Walkerpub, I believe they know and have common interests..go figure. | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5907 Registered: 10-2003 |
Windsor arena, is to be left standing, and is earmarked for use as a community rink. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 583 Registered: 09-2005 |
Aiw, tear down the build, save for the entrance, keep an open air rink in the middle, and build condos and retail around the rink. Something like this, but with an ice surface: http://vh10924.moc.gbahn.net/a pps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=C3&Da te=20060616&Category=METRO&Art No=606160341&Ref=V4Q=100&MaxW= 250 The rink could double as a wading pool in the summer. But since it probably doesn't get that warm in Canada during the summer, it will likely be a year round outdoor rink. The Spits could play there once a year and call it the Heritage Classic. | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5908 Registered: 10-2003 |
lol... Who would buy a condo next to the projects? | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8902 Registered: 10-2003 |
Agreeing with AIW. Until those projects are demo'ed, that area will always be in rough shape. As it stands it is one of the most violent areas of the city. I am not holding my breath on a community rink. The place uses up a lot of money for upkeep...but with this city you never know where they are going to spend you hard earned money. | ||
Blitz Member Username: Blitz Post Number: 205 Registered: 09-2004 |
The projects have to go...they're holding up the revitalization of the area east of the casino. The problem is where do all those people go? |
