Discuss Detroit » Archives - Beginning July 2006 » This would NOT happen with DARTA! « Previous Next »
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Planner_727
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Username: Planner_727

Post Number: 62
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Monday, September 25, 2006 - 3:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just another example of the critical need for one, coordinated regional transit system!

Multiple injuries reported after 2 buses crash in New Center

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20060925/NEW S99/60925017
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 1487
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, September 25, 2006 - 3:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow! Two buses bump into another, and the tort attorneys are probably already filing their claims!

Trains crash into other trains and other vehicles, too. They also derail. Is this a sensible reason to introduce yet another thread to add to the smoldering ash heaps of DY mass/rapid transit threads?

(Message edited by LivernoisYard on September 25, 2006)
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Planner_727
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Username: Planner_727

Post Number: 63
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Monday, September 25, 2006 - 3:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Come on, this was supposed to be funny! It's a SMART and a DDOT bus. Two bus systems, nothing else... should I post the mag-lev train crash too to even things out?
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Gravitymachine
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Username: Gravitymachine

Post Number: 1304
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Monday, September 25, 2006 - 3:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Planner_727, bus accidents add to the vibrant tapestry of our great city, quit fanning the fires of transportationn paranoia!
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Mayor_sekou
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Username: Mayor_sekou

Post Number: 25
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Monday, September 25, 2006 - 3:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The same thing almost happened to a CATA bus I was on last week. I wondered what would have happened if our driver didnt slam on the brakes and now I know, sheeez.. I hope no dies as a result of this.
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Dougw
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Username: Dougw

Post Number: 1350
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, September 25, 2006 - 4:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was about to add a joking aside myself, but this sounds like a pretty serious accident: 27 injured, 3 in critical condition.

quote:

Twenty-seven people were injured, three critically, as a result of a bus accident in Detroit's New Center this morning.

According to Detroit police and bystanders, a Detroit Department of Transportation bus rear-ended a SMART bus on Woodward near Marston. Both buses were in the southbound lanes. ...



I don't think it means anything significant one way or the other in terms of DARTA, except that better coordination between the two systems might help prevent such accidents in the future.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5007
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Monday, September 25, 2006 - 4:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

HAH!!! That's 4 accidents with D-DOT and 2 with SMART this year. Disciplinary actions will take place between the SMART and D-DOT drivers. On Woodward Ave. There are so many SMART Buses running on the Woodward Route that a crash is likely to occur. However the SMART And D-DOT Transportation still remains the worst public transpotation in the State of Michigan. The best solution lies within the our bureaucratic leaders.
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Mikeg
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Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 312
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Monday, September 25, 2006 - 4:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Witness reports described by WJR suggest that there might have been a conflict of some sort between the two bus drivers that contributed to the crash.
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Gravitymachine
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Username: Gravitymachine

Post Number: 1306
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Monday, September 25, 2006 - 4:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

racing for pinks no doubt
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Kenp
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Username: Kenp

Post Number: 50
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, September 25, 2006 - 4:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A conflict? Like 2 Bus drivers in a road rage while people are riding in their bus? Thats just sad.
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Focusonthed
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Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 479
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Monday, September 25, 2006 - 5:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

HAH!!! That's 4 accidents with D-DOT and 2 with SMART this year. Disciplinary actions will take place between the SMART and D-DOT drivers. On Woodward Ave. There are so many SMART Buses running on the Woodward Route that a crash is likely to occur. However the SMART And D-DOT Transportation still remains the worst public transpotation in the State of Michigan. The best solution lies within the our bureaucratic leaders.



Yes, 1 every 30 minutes is just asking for an accident. We should pare down bus service.
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Shark
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Username: Shark

Post Number: 251
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Monday, September 25, 2006 - 5:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If a bus hits another bus in Detroit what sound does it make? BANG?
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 1488
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, September 25, 2006 - 6:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Improving on Shark's rendition:
Don't buses go BANG! when they merge?

(Message edited by LivernoisYard on September 25, 2006)
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Planner_727
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Username: Planner_727

Post Number: 64
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Monday, September 25, 2006 - 9:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It is unfortunate that those riders were injured. And although I was making light of the collision, it really just throws salt in the wounds of a rediculous situation. The cost inefficiencies and logistical problems that arise from having two systems that combined cannot provide reliable transportation are unecessary and a hindrance to expanding the public transportation system to be a tool to all instead of a last resort for few.

I was making light of, and a point from, the symbolic conflict between the two inadequate systems, not the plight of the unfortunate passengers. Hopefully some day, this situation will be resolved.
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Bibs
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Username: Bibs

Post Number: 577
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, September 25, 2006 - 10:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Judge: Did you leave sufficient distance between you and the other motor vehicle in order to ensure a safe stop?
Defendant: Well, he stopped suddenly...and!
Judge: And you hit the SMART bus! Well, you ain't very SMART! Guilt of not being smart. $100 dollar fine. Next case!

Did that lighten it up a little?
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Tndetroiter
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Username: Tndetroiter

Post Number: 323
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Monday, September 25, 2006 - 10:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

On a related note, I saw a Detroit Cop giving what appeared to be a ticket to a DDOT bus driver at the corner of Cass and MLK today. Had the bus pulled over and everything.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 1491
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, September 26, 2006 - 12:56 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The DDOT spokesman mentioned that the SMART bus didn't stop at a bus stop. I guess that's justification enough for ramming it. But, suppose the SMART bus stopped for some kid darting, some whacked-out homeless dude planning his suicide, or get this--simple traffic?

According to DDOT's reckoning, the SMART bus should have kept going so that their buses have smooth sailing.
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Focusonthed
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Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 481
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, September 26, 2006 - 1:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wouldn't want the DDOT drivers to actually have to pay attention to the road in front of them.
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Trainman
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Username: Trainman

Post Number: 211
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, September 26, 2006 - 7:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)



In plain english,
the state fuel tax IS eliminatied in full and REPLACED with suburban tax dollars.

Read the agreement, it is in English and not
in french.

Livonia opted out because of DARTA

A DARTA officail came into Livonia city hall and
stated


Our Livonia property taxes can pay for SMART and DDOT without state operating funds because the federal government will pay more for grants. The public laughed and laughed and laughed.

The SMART officials signed this agreement and they lost in Livonia. But, they will get
pay increases by slashing your bus service and supporting the big freeways because this is what the majority voted for

This is America, so cast your vote in 2010


click here and learn the real facts.

http://savethefueltax.org

(Message edited by Trainman on September 26, 2006)

(Message edited by Trainman on September 27, 2006)
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Focusonthed
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Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 483
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, September 26, 2006 - 8:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So, because Livonia opted out of SMART, a DDOT bus hit a SMART bus in Detroit. Gotcha.

Please go away.
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Trainman
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Username: Trainman

Post Number: 212
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 5:39 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gotcha????

The fact that empty buses follow full buses is not smart but stupid. DARTA supporters constantly want tax increases to correct this and say that without tax increases that little or nothing can be done to improve bus service.

DARTA supporters say we lack tax mechansisms to pay for bus service.

This is because the fuel tax is not enough and yes 100 Million is really not enough but as long as SMART and DDOT refuse to allow industry to support mass transit, our area will always have mass transit that is incompetent.

And Focusonthed that is a fact. YES, Until Wal-Mart in Livonia comes to the table bus service will always be poor. It's a lottery system as some lose and some win but when we have compassion for others, then we can all win.

I take no joy in the Woodward Ave bus crash and I'm really sorry that SMART and DDOT will not come together and provide bus schedules that are usable because that IS the reason Livonia left SMART and the reason DARTA does not have enough industry support.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 5025
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 12:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Trainman,

It's more than just DARTA who urged those folks in Hitlerland Livonia to opt out the SMART bus system. It's a financial, EVIL Super Wal-Mart and a RACE thing.

One day those racist folks in Hilterland Livonia will wake up and smell the economic reality for when the jobs, retail and family continue to leave the city. The city council will have opt the SMART back into their city.
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1175
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 2:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bus crashes happen. I was in Chicago waiting for a bus and one had a brake failure and ran right over a light pole, it was rather funny (thankfully no one was hurt).
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Mtm
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Username: Mtm

Post Number: 113
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 2:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tongue in cheek: Couldn't this accident be considered the first successful merger between DDOT and SMART? (sorry, just had to...)

On a more serious note, in the end of June, Detroit was taking applications for driver positions that pay from $11.45 an hour and max out at $16.67.

Requirements to apply for a bus driver position with DDOT are as follows:
Must be 18 years of age with a valid drivers license.
Two years of driving experience.
Must have a Temporary Instruction Permit (TIP), which indicates you have applied for a Commercial Drivers License (CDL).
No more than three (3) points on driving record.
Must be Drug free and pass FTA drug test prior to hiring.
High School Diploma required.
Must qualify for Federal Department of Transportation (DOT) medical card.

I'm sorry but IMHO, somebody driving a massive bus, (potentially) full of passengers, through busy city traffic should have a bit more than two years driving experience and less than three points on their license.
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Janesback
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Username: Janesback

Post Number: 104
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 2:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One day those racist folks in Hilterland Livonia will wake up and smell the economic reality for when the jobs, retail and family continue to leave the city. The city council will have opt the SMART back into their city.

------------------------------ --------------------
Danny, this is one of many times you have used the term " hitlerland". Thats a racist comment, why don't you back off with your racists' commments and discuss Detroit intelligently. I thought this forum had some sense of rules.

Seems thats' an inappropriate post. Some one pull it.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2861
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 4:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This outta be good... watching Trainman and Danny having an intellectual discussion about Livonia and metro Detroit mass transit... :-)
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Danny
Member
Username: Danny

Post Number: 5031
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 4:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Janesback,

Hitlerland Livonia remains in a psychological invincible segregational state due to its bad representation toward blacks when they come to work, shop, visit and play. The " 2nd fully populated whitest city in the Metro-Detroit area will continue it racial campaign to keep their representation in full and remain a clean white city.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 1507
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 5:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If the words "Livonia" and "Detroit" are switched along with "black" vs. "white" and change "2nd" with "1st," the result is also quite on the mark, no?
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Trainman
Member
Username: Trainman

Post Number: 213
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 5:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Danny,

I agree with you about the racist attitudes about SMART leaving Livonia. But it is only a few people making it very bad for everyone else and the percentage of racists in Livonia is no higher then in any other community. Please remember that SMART almost won in Livonia and would have won, if we had good mass transit leadership in Lansing.

The fact that our leaders in Lansing openly and publicly refused to go after incompetent transit officials to stop the opt.-out is proof beyond any doubt that we need people who will stand up and fight and demand dignity and respect for all.

In a few days, I will be losing my bus ride which has many blacks on it and I’m very proud to stand up and fight for them to keep their bus service. I filed a civil rights complaint to stop the state cuts to SMART and will work with all to get the mass transit systems and leadership the taxpayers in Michigan deserve to have and keep with our limited hard earned transportation tax dollars.
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Detroitej72
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Username: Detroitej72

Post Number: 282
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 5:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Trainman V Danny, round II, ding!
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Danny
Member
Username: Danny

Post Number: 5035
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 5:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Trainman,

For sure! I'm going to wait to see if Hitlerland Livonia would provide its own public transit system or ask Detroit Dept. of Transportation to bring more city buses into their streets.
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Trainman
Member
Username: Trainman

Post Number: 215
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 10:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Danny,

There is some support for DDOT and it appears they will run a bus line to Middlebelt and Schoolcraft. I'm hoping that there are more efforts to coordinate SMART and all transportation together to maximize both tax dollars and all revenue sources. I think the answer is to move people and goods at the lowest cost and as safely as possible.

I'm going to try and use DDOT to get to Dearborn, if possible to help them and also SMART. I will miss the bike racks but I want to help others and want to see SMART come back but in the best way possible because the voters will not opt back in if people don't care to help our transit providers move more people, get more state and federal funds and industry support.

I know that if our state leaders don't help Detroit that it will be Michigan that will pay and not just Detroit. Just like if Livonia does not care about Detroit that it will be the whites in Livonia that will pay. And we are paying with store vacancies that are higher then what you might think. I'm working to get multiple tax mechanisms for bus service, which is presently rejected but we do this for roads and mass transit is just as important as roads which is not my opinion but a fact.

I think public debates are a good idea because this forum like other forums and meetings is not going anywhere for my cause. I want to go very public and to get the action that is really needed as opposed to hearing and giving more great speeches of how great mass transit is in San Francisco and how we can make it happen here. I just can’t wait any longer, so I demanding action from our leaders and transit officials and regional planners or I want them fired. Danny, we are paying them and they need to listen or they must go. Or, we will just keep getting more SEMCOG studies and great speeches. I was tired of this along time ago, so I filled up the buses by myself and then look what happens, I lose my bus service when in fact I want to help others. I don't want others to lose bus service like me, so I'm protesting the state cuts and the do-nothing council members across metro Detroit that can't even post bus schedules or try and vote in mass transit leadership.
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Detroitej72
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Username: Detroitej72

Post Number: 346
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 3:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good Night, Trainman

Detroitej72, going to bed!
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Fortress_warren
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Username: Fortress_warren

Post Number: 9
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 12:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Danny, what city is the 1st most fully populated whitest city in the Metro-Detroit area? I know it's not Livonia, that's the 2nd most fully populated whitest city. Curious minds want to know.

I rode San Francisco mass transit. The only way Detroit could do that is shrink from 150 square miles or whatever it is, down to 48. With the same population. No way is it possible to have the low population density of Detroit-Metro and a good mass transit. Unless you can print the money to pay for it; you'll never get it from the fare box. Even in SF they have to subsidize transit to keep the fares down.

(Message edited by fortress_warren on October 08, 2006)

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