Discuss Detroit » Archives - Beginning July 2006 » Retail to build on Ilitch Property « Previous Next »
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Homer
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Username: Homer

Post Number: 49
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, September 19, 2006 - 11:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

WXYZ TV News just reported that two national retailers are planning to open stores near Comerica. I am sure you know about it here at DetYes. So be the first to let us in on your inside knowledge.
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Apbest
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Username: Apbest

Post Number: 183
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, September 19, 2006 - 11:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

good news though...new construction or redevelopment? did they say
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4457
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, September 19, 2006 - 11:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That is awfully ambiguous. Hopefully, it means they are going to build on the surface lots fronting Woodward that have created a major gap in the streetscape in Foxtown.
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Motorcitymayor2026
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Username: Motorcitymayor2026

Post Number: 1328
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Tuesday, September 19, 2006 - 11:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

wouldnt count on it hah. Probably will add some surface lots, grrr....

Anyone know anything about this??
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7even
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Post Number: 107
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 12:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I bet those lots will never be built on because Ilitch wants people to be able to see Comerica.
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Apbest
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Post Number: 185
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Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 12:35 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

and park there
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Tndetroiter
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Username: Tndetroiter

Post Number: 318
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 12:59 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Who are the national retailers in question?
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Elwoodp
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Username: Elwoodp

Post Number: 7
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 2:03 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20060920/B IZ/609200390
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Motorcitymayor2026
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Username: Motorcitymayor2026

Post Number: 1330
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Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 2:23 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

wow, hes going to build on the woodward lot maybe?? thatd be great... but, now that would really show everyone that Comerica shouldnt have a woodward address...

Ahh, thanks for Atanas!

(Message edited by motorcitymayor2026 on September 20, 2006)
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 7909
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 6:26 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Key words that need to be considered:

Tiger fever may power downtown retail surge - May


quote:

Atanas Ilitch, president of Olympia Development, said Tuesday that the company is in "significant talks with five or six" national retailers and expects at least two retailers and an upscale grocery store to build stores on Ilitch-owned parking lots around the ballpark and the Fox Theatre complex




significant talks - AKA, nothing signed


quote:

New retailers also could open in Comerica Park and the Fox Theatre complex, which is across the street from the stadium.




Could


quote:

"The potential offers we are getting now and are in talks with about, really fit the goal of creating a unique environment here, something that we can all be proud to have in a big city," he said.




Potential


quote:

"We are not talking a Nordstrom's or something of that size, but possibly some sports-themed and other unique retailers to the area," Cullen said.




Sports themed

I would be as happy as the next person if this gets completed and I am excited about the energy that Atanas Ilitch brings to the table. I however will be cautiously optimistic until I see real progress.
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Dabirch
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Username: Dabirch

Post Number: 1862
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 7:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

I however will be cautiously optimistic until I see real progress.




Is that the politically correct way to say "skipper's rule" without receiving the wrath of Jelk?
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Tetsua
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Username: Tetsua

Post Number: 763
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 8:11 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm blown away at the fact that they are building upon the lots in front of the park.


quote:

Atanas Ilitch, the son of Mike and Marian Ilitch, wouldn't name the national retailers he is negotiating with but said most of them do not have a presence in Michigan




Good news, I look forward to hearing who they lure.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 7910
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 8:15 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:


------------------------------ ------------------------------ --------------------
quote:
I however will be cautiously optimistic until I see real progress.


------------------------------ ------------------------------ --------------------



Is that the politically correct way to say "skipper's rule" without receiving the wrath of Jelk?




Jelk's wrath does not frighten me. 500 threads of speculation on what could be coming to the site does scare me a little.

Those threads will lead into threads such as

-If they have retailers there I bet the M-L parking site is next for retail

-GCP will become the greatest place in the world

-Columbia street is next

-I wonder if Cheescake factory and HOB will follow now

- I bet they are coming because they know Rock is coming downtown

etc, etc, etc.
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Bussey
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Username: Bussey

Post Number: 227
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 8:23 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

IF THIS STORY EVER MATERIALIZES INTO SOMETHING CONCRETE I WILL CRAP MY PANTS!!


Those two parking lots in between CoPa and Fox are the most prime lots in the entire city. I would move there in a second. Build a 50 story tower and it would sell out in a day.

Add an actual GROCERY story to the mix, WOW!!


It is amazing how such little things can get Detroiters all excited.


Remember when the big story was how we were getting a new CVS? A damn drug store was the big news
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 7911
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 8:26 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

I would move there in a second. Build a 50 story tower and it would sell out in a day.




Who needs 50 story towers. I would much prefer 10 story buildings like the Ellington. We have enough land and need it covered. We don't need that much height.

Go to Europe and you will see in many cities how wonderful and vibrant cities can be with 4-5 story buildings and no empty trash strewn lots.
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Bussey
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Username: Bussey

Post Number: 228
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Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 8:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

But this is America. We need our Phallic Symbols!


And at that height you would have so many condos with ballpark views for sale that the Illitches would gain enough profit to fill up all of Foxtown with other ten story buildings.
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Chris_rohn
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Username: Chris_rohn

Post Number: 260
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 8:47 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

lots in question:



i'd rather have them build between the state theater and the fox theater, as proposed in the article.

if they ever rid of the parking lots between woodward and comerica park it would likely be for an open plaza.
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Busterwmu
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Username: Busterwmu

Post Number: 271
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 9:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And why don't we need an Olive Garden downtown? Who says no one would go there?! :-)

Still, this is great news!
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Genesyxx
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Username: Genesyxx

Post Number: 589
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 9:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hogwash. How can you guys keep trusting anything that comes out of that camp when you know they do nothing but tear down and own rundown buildings?
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Oldredfordette
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Username: Oldredfordette

Post Number: 511
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 9:53 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We can put Olive Garden next to the Cheesecake Factory. Then we can have two tasteless corporate chains, conveniently located side by side.

Have you ever had Italian food, Buster? You should try it some time, you'll never go back to O.G.
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Busterwmu
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Username: Busterwmu

Post Number: 273
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 10:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Of course I have. Been to Europe, tasted their finest. Been to local authentic Italian eateries, tasted their finest too. If you read carefully, I never said it was the best Italian anywhere, oldredfortette, and I never tried to compare it to quote unquote real italian. I just said people would go there. Apparently you wouldn't.

(Message edited by busterwmu on September 20, 2006)
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Dabirch
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Username: Dabirch

Post Number: 1865
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 10:13 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

and I never tried to compare it to quote unquote real italian




As you are typing, it would be much more effective to just say "real italian"
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Itsjeff
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Username: Itsjeff

Post Number: 6896
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 10:13 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

mister oldredfortette

austin
That's a woman,baybee!
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Hamtramck_steve
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Username: Hamtramck_steve

Post Number: 3300
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 10:24 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:


------------------------------ ------------------------------ --------------------
quote:
and I never tried to compare it to quote unquote real italian


------------------------------ ------------------------------ --------------------



As you are typing, it would be much more effective to just say "real italian"




Or he could make the words 'real italian' italics. I can see his point to typing out "quote unquote" because the emotion comes through more clearly.
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 10626
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Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 10:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've piled on the Ilitches in the past, I wasn't happy with their decision to drop the Madison Lennox, but it's seriously time to move on people.

Their recent moves have been for the better, and almost complete opposite of their past track record. The is a rejuvinated interest in the Tigers organization, as evident by their willingness to sign key players in the off season along with bringing in Dembrowski years back to build a healthy farm system. Where as prior to this season we were all hoping and praying for a .500+ season, here we are talking, and already paying, for post season play. Even by some off chance the Tigers were knocked out, they are still hovering around 30 games over .500, they have more than exceeded all of our expectations.

Around Super Bowl the family announced a planned redevelopment of The Detroit Building in the Foxtown area. Their current deal with their surface parking on the Madison Lennox site states they will either redevelop the site in the near future or pay stiff penalties. They dropped banners over other properties in hopes of attracting interest. In addition, there is no denying that the Ilitches have played a key role, along with Peter Karmonos, in trying to attract Rock financial downtown. One can argue that it is for their own financial gain, but you can argue that case till you're blue in the face. I see the aspect of drawing 3,000+ jobs into downtown and really don't care one means are used or who gains in the process.

I've heard many people complain over the years as to why Comerica Park didn't butt right up to Woodward. Personally, I was glad to see surface lots, as it allows future development, as it seems were may see in the near future. The park being right along Woodward would have ruined the whole block, as it would be dead space. As it is, we will hopefully be seeing 1 or 2 story developments that hopefully will front right along Woodward, with parking out back if any parking is included.

This is good news and even the Ilitch haters have to admit to that. Perhaps it is long over due for the family, but it's better late than never.
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Ndavies
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Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 2173
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Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 10:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry Sport, until they actually start working on the projects they keep announcing, this is just a bunch of public relations BS. They will not receive any breathing room from me until they actually do something and stop talking about doing something. Their development organization is just like the Lions, Lots of talk, no output.

They didn't play a large role in luring Rock downtown. They came in and complicated an ongoing deal the city was negotiating.
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Eric_c
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Username: Eric_c

Post Number: 848
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 11:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

...not to mention The Detroit Life Building still sits, unchanged, seven months after the Super Bowl.

I expect nothing to come of this - at least not anytime soon.
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 10628
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 11:13 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey man, they have a development sign, lighted I might add, on the building. What more do you want, potted plants on the signage? LOL

I agree, that this is all speculation still, but this sounds the most promising of all of their announcements.

So NDavies, did the Ilitches come in and "complicate" the Book Cadillac delay as well? Since apparently, the city is just "slam dunk" in regards to development when they don't have outside influence to deal with.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 2107
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 11:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fantastic news. How the hell can we tolerate large surface parking lots on our main street downtown? It's about time, but perhaps the wait is a good thing since high-quality retailers are being pursued. Surface parking lots are about the most inefficient things of all time; when events are not going on, they sit vacant and blight the cityscape...then, when something big happens, they do not contain enough spots to house all parking demanders. Obviously, we need to build up or down with our parking, and reserve high-value main-street parcels for commercial and residential use.

I would want to see MUCH MORE than 1-2 story developments on Woodward even these projects occur. Clearly, they should be mixed use with housing above the stores.

I'm still wondering about the parking lot that surrounds the Barden Co. building south of the park. That is so prime for townhouses or a mid-rise apartment building. Anything over 2.5 stories could peer directly onto the CoPa field, providing the Wrigley-like intimacy that we need to achieve with our open center field.
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 10630
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Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 11:17 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Anything over 2.5 stories could peer directly onto the CoPa field




You sure about that? You been to the top of Cheli's yet? That is the ROOF of a 3 story builing. Yeah, you can peer right in....right in with a spectacular view of the fans sitting in the upper deck.
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Jelk
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Post Number: 4072
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Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 11:19 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Worry not Dabirch, I will direct my wrath elsewhere...


quote:

wouldnt count on it hah. Probably will add some surface lots, grrr....

Anyone know anything about this??




I see McMayor has returned after claiming on Hot Fudge that this site has "gone downhill". Grass not greener on the other side, eh Junior? I guess when you are seven your attention span is fairly short.

And for Sport...


quote:

I've heard many people complain over the years as to why Comerica Park didn't butt right up to Woodward. Personally, I was glad to see surface lots, as it allows future development, as it seems were may see in the near future. The park being right along Woodward would have ruined the whole block, as it would be dead space.




Were the buildings that stood on that block before demoed for CoPa parking also "dead space"?

As for Rock, I don't think they survive long enough to move downtown or anywhere else. Your boy, Hall is already begun pimping mortgages to replace those smart-arms now that interest-only period has come due. That shell game can only last so long.
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 10632
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Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 11:22 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Were the buildings that stood on that block before demoed for CoPa parking also "dead space"?




All I can say is that they restore when they can and that it may have been "dead krackhead" space.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 2108
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Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 11:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No SS, it's not the same as Cheli's. Check it out next time your walking around there. Cheli's is obstructed by the freakin' mezzanine. Anything on that site has clear view, only needing to be above the level of the fountain and catwalk which attaches the staircase to the mezzanine concourse.
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Psip
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Post Number: 1202
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Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 11:56 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Macedonian Parking Cartel is not amused
Mac
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Bvos
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Username: Bvos

Post Number: 2000
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Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 12:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I didn't know Illeech owned parking lots out by Mack & Alter.

Bussey said: "IF THIS STORY EVER MATERIALIZES INTO SOMETHING CONCRETE I WILL CRAP MY PANTS!!". Will this be with or without Depends?
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Bvos
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Post Number: 2001
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Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 12:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

God, I just realized I used my 2,000th post on that. Oh well.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 2109
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Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 12:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Congrats anyway. My 2000th wasn't too stellar either.
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Bussey
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Post Number: 229
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Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 12:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Depend-Less


My pants love the Hot Fudge, literally as well.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2817
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Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 12:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well we were bedazzled by a major Ilitch announcement back in the 1990's with an announcement that there was going to be an "Agora" (Greek/Macedonian for marketplace) right next to the Fox on Columbia St. It was to be anchored by a Hard Rock Cafe, on the corner fo Woodward & Columbia. And we all saw what happened with that idea...

Of course that was over a decade ago, back when only the big projects were happening in Detroit. Now with a new stadium across the street, and a lot of smaller projects happening downtown, it is much more likely that something will actually happen here.

I do hope that something happens on Columbia St. that will tie developments along Woodward with the developments along Park Ave. Those blocks between those 2 streets are very long and very intimidating to traverse (thanks to the sidewalls of 2 enormous theatres).

I would tend to think that any retail on the 2 blocks between the Fox and Comerica Park should have 3 levels (or more!) of parking built on top.
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 10634
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Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 12:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Confetti dropped from the ceiling when I hit 10,000
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Gistok
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Post Number: 2818
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Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 12:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LOL at Psip's picture.... hey, judging by the Macedonian woman's bag, that new "gourmet" food store might be a new Aldi's coming downtown!!! :-)
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Itsjeff
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Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 12:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That wasn't confetti. It was loose plaster from the entire forum stamping their feet in disgust.
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Motorcitymayor2026
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Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 12:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hey jelk, i never left, and Im a little older than 7, but your close!

And yes, this site has gone downhill. Believe it or not, it is possible to post on two DIFFERENT forums, as you yourself do.
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Wmuchris
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Post Number: 441
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Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 12:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Confetti dropped from the ceiling when I hit 10,000





No it was the forumers flicking boogers at the class loser.

(Message edited by wmuchris on September 20, 2006)
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 10637
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Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 1:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

No SS, it's not the same as Cheli's. Check it out next time your walking around there. Cheli's is obstructed by the freakin' mezzanine. Anything on that site has clear view, only needing to be above the level of the fountain and catwalk which attaches the staircase to the mezzanine concourse.




Dude, seriously, did you even look at the map? There is not a single lot on that map over by the fountain. Two stories up will NOT give you a line of sight down INTO Comerica Park to watch a game. Walk by there? I've walked by plenty, no need to school me on how the place is set up. Explain to me this, Hockeytown is 2 stories tall, why can't you watch a game from the roof of Hockeytown?
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 2110
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Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 1:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Let's review this...do you realize that the field is surrounded by double-deck seating around 3-sides, but that the outfield is open? And the empty lot that I speak of is bounded by John R, Adams, Madison, and GCP. The SE corner of this block has the Barden Co. building, but 70% of the block is surface parking, located along Adams St. from where the fountain is to where the GCP CoPa entrance is. Therefore, the view from any slighty elevated perch on this lot is most definitly not obstructed by any grandstands, unlike Hockeytown Cafe or Cheli's Chilli.

Look at THIS and tell me i'm wrong: http://local.live.com/default. aspx?v=2&cp=r1ppx082ccb2&style =o&lvl=1&scene=3779051

Anything built near the Adams/John R. corner could be just 2 stories and have an outstanding rooftop stadium view. As you go further west down the block, you'd have to build something about 3-4 stories to easily look above that structure where the Pepsi Porch/BBQ restaurant is.

I don't even know if this is freaking Ilitch property, I was just mentioning it as a place that is prime for infill.
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Supersport
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Post Number: 10639
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Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 1:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My bad, I thought we were only talking about the lots in the article, none of which would have a line of sight. Missed the whole wishful thinking part about lots not being proposed, as you were.
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Mackinaw
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Post Number: 2111
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Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 2:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah sorry about that, I threw it in as an afterthought.
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Gambling_man
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Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 3:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually SS, the roof at Hockeytown would be at least the third story.
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Apbest
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Post Number: 188
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Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 3:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

interestingly, if they plan to eliminate that parking for meaningful development, could that say something about a potential red wings decision? they have to make up that parking somewhere...and a new Wings stadium (which they indicated would be aimed at a more Madison Square Gardens type of urban arena to draw venues away from Palace and DTE) would need alot of parking that they could share with the tigers
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Detroitplanner
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Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 4:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm still waiting for the Illitiches to build the Hard Rock and Italian Village announced 10 years ago.
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Planner_727
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Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 12:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just a quick idea of what would be a great development for the twin lots... whole-block 2-story retail and office, with the frontage on woodward at 4 stories with offices or residential. Underground parking a possibility?

sketchUp Illtich Retail
(Above: looking toward Detroit River on Woodward from above I-75)

SketchUp Illitch Retail 2
(Above: looking toward the Fox/State from above CoPa)
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Oldredfordette
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Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 12:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Whenever the Ilitches talk about new development, the independent businesses surrounding the ballpark shiver with fear.
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Planner_727
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Username: Planner_727

Post Number: 58
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 12:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And the preservationists... just gives them another reason to tear down some buildings for parking.
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Lowell
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Username: Lowell

Post Number: 3014
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 12:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is something visually appeal-- ing about the open space between the Fox and the stadium with the old churches north and south even with the eyesore of parking lots.

What ever gets developed there I would hope that site lines and some open spaces get created.

BTW any updates or rumors on the residential towers that were going to be built on the 1st Methodist parking lot?

Nice visualization Planner 727! I could see those two spaces occasionally bridged and some inventive uses of the rooftops.
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The_aram
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Username: The_aram

Post Number: 5053
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 12:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

There is something visually appeal-- ing about the open space between the Fox and the stadium with the old churches north and south even with the eyesore of parking lots.




Yeah, because density and -gasp- non-parking related businesses really suck when you have all that open space to enjoy! Who doesn't love staring at parked cars?
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7even
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Username: 7even

Post Number: 108
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 1:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Planner you got to think bigger!!
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 2112
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 1:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Agreed, Aram. Those lots are inefficient, and I would say, a blight on our main street. If a small park that provides sight-lines is provided in addition to infill, that's one thing, but the parking lots are anything but elegant.

I'm sure that the visibility between the stadium and the Fox that Lowell speaks of is something Mr. Ilitch enjoys very much...but the high prices he can fetch for those parking lots are convincing him that perhaps he should develop them.
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56packman
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Username: 56packman

Post Number: 618
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 1:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If they build retail right on Woodward (in front of copa) I hope they bring back the Wolmouth tailors

56 packman
who remembers the buildings/storefronts in the Fox neighborhood in the Kung-fu blacksploitation days
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Planner_727
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Username: Planner_727

Post Number: 59
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 3:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

7even if you took all the floor area of those towers you could build every vacant lot downtown :-).

You would have a view from the top akin to the Goodyear blimp flying over! :-)
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Eric
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Username: Eric

Post Number: 543
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 8:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One potential use that hasn't been brought up is big box retail. No other site downtown is as ideal as those lots along Woodward. Other downtowns have started adding them over the past few years and it is definitely time that Detroit become part of the trend
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Bussey
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Username: Bussey

Post Number: 230
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 8:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Only if it has street level retail with a rooftop parking deck, and a Cheesecake Factory
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Dtown1
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Username: Dtown1

Post Number: 174
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 8:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A box store such as Wal-Mart or Meijer would work perfectly downtown. You all know their building a staples on the outskirts of downtown on Jefferson. This could help the offices that are downtown a lot and may persuade more to move because of the easy access to national, reasonable brand office supplies.
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Erikd
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Username: Erikd

Post Number: 725
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, September 22, 2006 - 12:39 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

One potential use that hasn't been brought up is big box retail. No other site downtown is as ideal as those lots along Woodward.




The lots on Woodward in front of the CoPa are way too small for big-box stores.
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Gumby
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Username: Gumby

Post Number: 1396
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, September 22, 2006 - 12:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

The lots on Woodward in front of the CoPa are way too small for big-box stores.



Not if they get creative they aren't. Think multilevel. Not saying I want to see big box there but hey...
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The_aram
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Username: The_aram

Post Number: 5055
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, September 22, 2006 - 12:53 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You guys ever seen pictures of the Manhattan Home Depot? Yes, it exists. In the middle of a busy downtown city block. Multi-level, framed by two other buildings. Not saying Detroit should have one, but they exist elsewhere.
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Psip
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Username: Psip

Post Number: 1209
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Friday, September 22, 2006 - 12:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^^ I hope the cinder blocks and dry wall are on the first floor. Bringing a 4x8 down the escalator would be a trick.
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Ltorivia485
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Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2798
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, September 22, 2006 - 1:41 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Most big-box stores in urban centers are multi-leveled with escalators and elevators. I've been in Chicago, Washington and NYC so I know what I am talking about. This type of establishing is pro-pedestrian and fits in a dense neighborhood. Parking is usually a few blocks away or in a multi-leveled parking garage.
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Erikd
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Username: Erikd

Post Number: 726
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, September 22, 2006 - 1:54 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Not if they get creative they aren't. Think multilevel.





quote:

You guys ever seen pictures of the Manhattan Home Depot? Yes, it exists. In the middle of a busy downtown city block. Multi-level, framed by two other buildings. Not saying Detroit should have one, but they exist elsewhere.




It may be POSSIBLE to build a big-box store on those lots, but it is not "ideal", nor is it even feasible.

The Tiger Stadium site was deemed to be too small for a Wal-Mart, so I don't see how the much smaller lots on Woodward would be a better option.

Detroit is filled with large amounts of open land that offer enough space for big box stores, but the big-box chains have shown little interest in opening stores in the city.

If a big-box chain like Wal-Mart or Meijer was looking to open their first store in the city, the Woodward lots by Comerica Park would never be considered because they are way too small.
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Pdtpuck
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Username: Pdtpuck

Post Number: 208
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Friday, September 22, 2006 - 2:05 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

they do nothing but tear down and own rundown buildings?




is that 'tear it down first and THEN own it?' or 'tear down old buildings' AND own rundown buildings?!?!?
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Eric
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Username: Eric

Post Number: 544
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Friday, September 22, 2006 - 2:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Walmart was looking at building a traditional store, not one specially design to fit in an urban environment.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 2115
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Friday, September 22, 2006 - 9:47 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah with all the empty land in Detroit they could easily build one of their usual colossus places, making trying to build on Woodward a costly and unneccesary move. I'm sure this holds for most big boxes. I don't have a clue why they'd move onto a small downtown block with all the empty land we have.

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