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The UAW is killing this placeTndetroiter26 09-16-06  1:10 am
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Tndetroiter
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Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 2:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1. Break the UAW. I don't think there's anybody out there that will argue that they aren't an anchor on the Big 3. They secure unreasonably high wages for workers who stand around and do nothing.

2. Turn Michigan into a right-to-work state. Kinda goes hand-in-hand w/ #1.

3. Replace the SBT w/ a tax that isn't based on payroll size. Payroll taxes kill jobs.
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Zephyrprocess
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Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 2:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We'll be Arkansas in no time!
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Stecks77
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Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 2:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thedetroiter: Its not so much the UAW itself, it was the creation of the Job Bank by the Big 3 which pays workers well over 50% of their pay while doing nothing. Some UAW workers have been in it for over 10 years. I think the cost of the GM job bank is something like 2 Billion a year!

That's what needs to be broken or negotiated out of the contract with the UAW.

(Message edited by stecks77 on September 15, 2006)
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Livernoisyard
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Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 3:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The UAW by the time of its next contract, in/around September 2007, will be primarily representing the Tiers (making around $12 to $16/hr) and not the automakers, per se. Just wait and see...
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Tndetroiter
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Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 3:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Zephyr, you think Michigan isn't heading that way already? W/ the way the economy is going right now, Michigan will be Mississippi in no time.

Stecks, yes, the jobs bank is a big part of it, it will probably get axed during the next round of contract talks. However, the disproportial wages that those parasites get will still be a big problem.

I've lived and worked in a right-to-work state, it's not horrible like you make it out to be, the only catch is that you actually have to earn your paycheck. If you think your working conditions are sub par, there's this thing called OSHA. You might want to give them a call.

(Message edited by tndetroiter on September 15, 2006)
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Bob
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Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 3:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know the way to fix the Michigan economy, make everyone an Amway salesperson, oh wait, that's the Dick DeVos Turnaround Plan.
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Miss_cleo
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Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 3:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

have or do any of you work in a factory, its dangerous, its noisy, its dirty, you stand on your feet all day, you get cover in oil and grease, no windows to look out like at your nice cushy office, no soft chair...granted some might slack off, but that happens in all professions. Working in a factory is no picnic and they arent *doing nothing*
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Bob
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Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 3:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well said Miss Cleo!
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Viziondetroit
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Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 3:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I bet a good number NOT ALL of the people in the job banks aren't even looking for work.

When the axe comes down they will be bitch about being fired.. gof figure
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E_hemingway
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Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 4:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

News Flash: Nutcase rightwingers hijack DetroitYes again, making everybody else go:

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Planner_727
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Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 4:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Two threads with this factory-versus-the-world concept. Not all of the people working for these car companies work in the factory. Many of them have cushy chairs and offices. They're just as big of a part of the problem. Name one other employer who directly pays employees not to work? That has the UAW stamp all over it. While that was a great benefit to secure for it's members, now they won't have a job or skills becuase everytime they should have been laid off they were bailed out of having to learn other skills.
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Zephyrprocess
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Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 4:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

re: "Name one other employer who directly pays employees not to work?"

Um... Compuware?

(among numerous other consulting organizations that--like automakers--have a fluctuating demand for output)
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_sj_
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Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 4:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Caught you there Planner. Although not as much as once did.


quote:

have or do any of you work in a factory, its dangerous, its noisy, its dirty, you stand on your feet all day, you get cover in oil and grease, no windows to look out like at your nice cushy office, no soft chair.




Try working in a office where your responsibile for the thousands of jobs underneath you. Where every meeting is meet with more and more stress becuase your decision holds the fate of thousands.

Mental Labor is just as much as bitch as physical labor if not more.
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Miss_cleo
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Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 5:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

try working in a factory where they are cutting more and more jobs and you dont know if you can keep your house or feed and clothe your family..thats stress....I think the office jobs/ceos handle their stress very well,seeing how when the line workers are laid off they still have a job and a raise to boot, specially being paid 20 mil. Give me a break! poor little office worker! lol
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Stecks77
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Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 5:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you were in the job bank getting paid a large portion of your wages and you thought it would go on forever why would you look for work?

Its crazy The auto execs who came up with the job bank to appease the union are also to blame. Now everyone is paying the price.
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Ray1936
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Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 5:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Excuse me.

The UAW has gained NOTHING that the manufacturers didn't agree to.
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Thnk2mch
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Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 5:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

The UAW has gained NOTHING that the manufacturers didn't agree to.




Heh. agree or ?
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Stecks77
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Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 5:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

By going in the Job Bank they've gained nothing? Please!

If it wasn't for the job bank and they were laid off , they would be laid off. No job, no pay, benifits gone. Give me a break.

I'm say the execs are to blame as well! Not just the union.

(Message edited by stecks77 on September 15, 2006)
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E_hemingway
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Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 8:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

BTW, the jobs bank was management's idea. It's something they wanted to see happen in contract talks many, many moons ago.
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Ray
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Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 8:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think you can blame solely the UAW or that the people in the union are not hardworking.

But, rightly or wrongly, I think Michigan's unions are perceived by employers has a huge problem and account for why they put plants in the South.

After all, how can we ignore the fact that non-union states are rapidly adding factory jobs while jobs in our state evaporate.

Now, maybe these non-union plants come at the expense of workers. That's what we are told, anyway. But I've been through non-union factories in the south and the conditions look clean and bright, the work force is well paid and upbeat.

In terms of job security, ironically its the unionized plants that are shedding jobs. I don't think Toyota (which does operate one union plant in Freemont, CA) has ever laid off a single assembly line worker.

Personally, I think if Michigan were a right to work state, we'd see growth in the number of manufactruing jobs and a stablization in our now plumeting median income. So, I think the people of Michigan, would benefit greatly.
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Fnemecek
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Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 10:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

1. Break the UAW. I don't think there's anybody out there that will argue that they aren't an anchor on the Big 3. They secure unreasonably high wages for workers who stand around and do nothing.



Yes, indeed - I mean, let's just recall the way the UAW staged those massive walk-out to compel Ford and GM to adopt a product mix that relies heavily on trucks and SUVs.

Clearly, it's the UAW and its unwillingness to pay attention to which direction oil prices were heading that is causing all of these problems.
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Themax
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Posted on Saturday, September 23, 2006 - 4:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If those new car plants are clean and hopefully safe, it is because of all the attention to workplace safety in the last 35 years with the creation of OSHA. Unfortunately neither the union nor OSHA foresaw the Rouge plant fire of a number of years ago when coal dust was so thick it literally exploded.
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Trainman
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Posted on Sunday, September 24, 2006 - 7:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote

We'll be Arkansas in no time!

end of quote

The jobs are leaving Michigan because we have high taxes period.

So, the answer is to make government more efficient and NOT to raise taxes. We can do this and bring in good jobs, if we use the tools that God gave us. God gave us brains, so let's get leaders elected that will allow all of us to use our brains instead of dreaming up more ways to get more taxes raised.

Many of Michigan's leaders refuse to raise user fees or make better use of existing revenue sources. They need to be removed from office and we need to make it clear to our new governor next november that the answer is more good decent paying jobs for everyone who wants to work.

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