Tndetroiter Member Username: Tndetroiter
Post Number: 296 Registered: 12-2005
| Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 2:53 pm: | |
1. Break the UAW. I don't think there's anybody out there that will argue that they aren't an anchor on the Big 3. They secure unreasonably high wages for workers who stand around and do nothing. 2. Turn Michigan into a right-to-work state. Kinda goes hand-in-hand w/ #1. 3. Replace the SBT w/ a tax that isn't based on payroll size. Payroll taxes kill jobs. |
Zephyrprocess Member Username: Zephyrprocess
Post Number: 22 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 2:55 pm: | |
We'll be Arkansas in no time! |
Stecks77 Member Username: Stecks77
Post Number: 73 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 2:57 pm: | |
Thedetroiter: Its not so much the UAW itself, it was the creation of the Job Bank by the Big 3 which pays workers well over 50% of their pay while doing nothing. Some UAW workers have been in it for over 10 years. I think the cost of the GM job bank is something like 2 Billion a year! That's what needs to be broken or negotiated out of the contract with the UAW. (Message edited by stecks77 on September 15, 2006) |
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 1430 Registered: 10-2004
| Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 3:02 pm: | |
The UAW by the time of its next contract, in/around September 2007, will be primarily representing the Tiers (making around $12 to $16/hr) and not the automakers, per se. Just wait and see... |
Tndetroiter Member Username: Tndetroiter
Post Number: 298 Registered: 12-2005
| Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 3:02 pm: | |
Zephyr, you think Michigan isn't heading that way already? W/ the way the economy is going right now, Michigan will be Mississippi in no time. Stecks, yes, the jobs bank is a big part of it, it will probably get axed during the next round of contract talks. However, the disproportial wages that those parasites get will still be a big problem. I've lived and worked in a right-to-work state, it's not horrible like you make it out to be, the only catch is that you actually have to earn your paycheck. If you think your working conditions are sub par, there's this thing called OSHA. You might want to give them a call. (Message edited by tndetroiter on September 15, 2006) |
Bob Member Username: Bob
Post Number: 1149 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 3:10 pm: | |
I know the way to fix the Michigan economy, make everyone an Amway salesperson, oh wait, that's the Dick DeVos Turnaround Plan. |
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo
Post Number: 266 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 3:46 pm: | |
have or do any of you work in a factory, its dangerous, its noisy, its dirty, you stand on your feet all day, you get cover in oil and grease, no windows to look out like at your nice cushy office, no soft chair...granted some might slack off, but that happens in all professions. Working in a factory is no picnic and they arent *doing nothing* |
Bob Member Username: Bob
Post Number: 1151 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 3:49 pm: | |
Well said Miss Cleo! |
Viziondetroit Member Username: Viziondetroit
Post Number: 784 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 3:59 pm: | |
I bet a good number NOT ALL of the people in the job banks aren't even looking for work. When the axe comes down they will be bitch about being fired.. gof figure |
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway
Post Number: 937 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 4:04 pm: | |
News Flash: Nutcase rightwingers hijack DetroitYes again, making everybody else go:
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Planner_727 Member Username: Planner_727
Post Number: 50 Registered: 07-2006
| Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 4:08 pm: | |
Two threads with this factory-versus-the-world concept. Not all of the people working for these car companies work in the factory. Many of them have cushy chairs and offices. They're just as big of a part of the problem. Name one other employer who directly pays employees not to work? That has the UAW stamp all over it. While that was a great benefit to secure for it's members, now they won't have a job or skills becuase everytime they should have been laid off they were bailed out of having to learn other skills. |
Zephyrprocess Member Username: Zephyrprocess
Post Number: 23 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 4:27 pm: | |
re: "Name one other employer who directly pays employees not to work?" Um... Compuware? (among numerous other consulting organizations that--like automakers--have a fluctuating demand for output) |
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_
Post Number: 1509 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 4:43 pm: | |
Caught you there Planner. Although not as much as once did.
quote:have or do any of you work in a factory, its dangerous, its noisy, its dirty, you stand on your feet all day, you get cover in oil and grease, no windows to look out like at your nice cushy office, no soft chair.
Try working in a office where your responsibile for the thousands of jobs underneath you. Where every meeting is meet with more and more stress becuase your decision holds the fate of thousands. Mental Labor is just as much as bitch as physical labor if not more. |
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo
Post Number: 269 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 5:29 pm: | |
try working in a factory where they are cutting more and more jobs and you dont know if you can keep your house or feed and clothe your family..thats stress....I think the office jobs/ceos handle their stress very well,seeing how when the line workers are laid off they still have a job and a raise to boot, specially being paid 20 mil. Give me a break! poor little office worker! lol |
Stecks77 Member Username: Stecks77
Post Number: 76 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 5:38 pm: | |
If you were in the job bank getting paid a large portion of your wages and you thought it would go on forever why would you look for work? Its crazy The auto execs who came up with the job bank to appease the union are also to blame. Now everyone is paying the price. |
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936
Post Number: 804 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 5:44 pm: | |
Excuse me. The UAW has gained NOTHING that the manufacturers didn't agree to. |
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch
Post Number: 365 Registered: 02-2006
| Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 5:47 pm: | |
quote:The UAW has gained NOTHING that the manufacturers didn't agree to.
Heh. agree or ? |
Stecks77 Member Username: Stecks77
Post Number: 77 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 5:50 pm: | |
By going in the Job Bank they've gained nothing? Please! If it wasn't for the job bank and they were laid off , they would be laid off. No job, no pay, benifits gone. Give me a break. I'm say the execs are to blame as well! Not just the union. (Message edited by stecks77 on September 15, 2006) |
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway
Post Number: 940 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 8:06 pm: | |
BTW, the jobs bank was management's idea. It's something they wanted to see happen in contract talks many, many moons ago. |
Ray Member Username: Ray
Post Number: 787 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 8:18 pm: | |
I don't think you can blame solely the UAW or that the people in the union are not hardworking. But, rightly or wrongly, I think Michigan's unions are perceived by employers has a huge problem and account for why they put plants in the South. After all, how can we ignore the fact that non-union states are rapidly adding factory jobs while jobs in our state evaporate. Now, maybe these non-union plants come at the expense of workers. That's what we are told, anyway. But I've been through non-union factories in the south and the conditions look clean and bright, the work force is well paid and upbeat. In terms of job security, ironically its the unionized plants that are shedding jobs. I don't think Toyota (which does operate one union plant in Freemont, CA) has ever laid off a single assembly line worker. Personally, I think if Michigan were a right to work state, we'd see growth in the number of manufactruing jobs and a stablization in our now plumeting median income. So, I think the people of Michigan, would benefit greatly. |
Fnemecek
Member Username: Fnemecek
Post Number: 1961 Registered: 12-2004
| Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 10:07 pm: | |
quote:1. Break the UAW. I don't think there's anybody out there that will argue that they aren't an anchor on the Big 3. They secure unreasonably high wages for workers who stand around and do nothing.
Yes, indeed - I mean, let's just recall the way the UAW staged those massive walk-out to compel Ford and GM to adopt a product mix that relies heavily on trucks and SUVs. Clearly, it's the UAW and its unwillingness to pay attention to which direction oil prices were heading that is causing all of these problems. |
Themax Member Username: Themax
Post Number: 303 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Saturday, September 23, 2006 - 4:15 pm: | |
If those new car plants are clean and hopefully safe, it is because of all the attention to workplace safety in the last 35 years with the creation of OSHA. Unfortunately neither the union nor OSHA foresaw the Rouge plant fire of a number of years ago when coal dust was so thick it literally exploded. |
Trainman Member Username: Trainman
Post Number: 207 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Sunday, September 24, 2006 - 7:55 pm: | |
quote We'll be Arkansas in no time! end of quote The jobs are leaving Michigan because we have high taxes period. So, the answer is to make government more efficient and NOT to raise taxes. We can do this and bring in good jobs, if we use the tools that God gave us. God gave us brains, so let's get leaders elected that will allow all of us to use our brains instead of dreaming up more ways to get more taxes raised. Many of Michigan's leaders refuse to raise user fees or make better use of existing revenue sources. They need to be removed from office and we need to make it clear to our new governor next november that the answer is more good decent paying jobs for everyone who wants to work. |