  Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 348 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 71.65.11.152 |
Advertisement News bulletin Man stabbed outside of Comerica Park September 13, 2006 Email this Print this By Ben Schmitt Freep.com Detroit Police said this morning that a 45-year-old man is in custody for allegedly stabbing a Tigers' fan outside of Comerica Park after Tuesday night's baseball game. Police said today that the suspect is a homeless man who got into a verbal confrontation with a 31-year-old man, whose identity was not released, shortly after the game, which ended around10 p.m. The suspect stabbed the victim at least once in the stomach, police said. The victim was taken to Detroit Receiving Hospital and listed in stable condition. The injuries are not life-threatening, police said. Officers on duty outside of the ballpark arrested the homeless man. http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20060913/NEW S99/60913002 | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 257 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 69.19.14.38 |
Good ole Detroit! | ||
1953 Member Username: 1953 Post Number: 994 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 209.104.146.146 |
I'm curious which of our many homeless men is accussed in this crime. Anyone know? | ||
Wilus1mj Member Username: Wilus1mj Post Number: 113 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 216.111.89.3 |
You're not going to get much spare change if you start stabbing people. | ||
Mind_field Member Username: Mind_field Post Number: 623 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.73.4.81 |
What the hell is going on downtown? This is getting depressing....all the violence. | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 463 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 68.60.181.41 |
I hate to even bring this up, because I was hoping it was an ugly random act. But I was accosted outside of CorporateAmerika Park in mid-August, by a guy who began the assault my feeling my earlobe. I know it sounds like a joke, but it wasn't. I was very lucky, the bar bus drivers happened to be congregated behind me, saw what was happening and chased the guy away just as things were about to get weirder. As it was, I had to yell for a long couple minutes till they saw it (it was very loud). I walk at night in downtown Detroit almost every work night. I am never alone, I wasn't alone when the incident occurred. This happened at a sold out game, in the middle of a lot of people. But there wasn't a cop around. Most nights, downtown is deserted, aside from the occasional panhandler. We never see cops either, unless we are walking by the MGM Grand. There are cops aplenty at the casinos. Why the heck is that? And why aren't isn't there a greater police presence, besides directing traffic, in the Foxtown area? Makes no sense. Moral to the story, if you feel fingers on your earlobe, run the fuck away. I get creeped out thinking about it, and thinking of what could have happend if it wasn't for the Nemo's and Anchor guys. Thanks again! | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5853 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 209.216.150.127 |
ORF, that's a creepy and bizzarre story. Glad nothing bad happened. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10588 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.118.137.226 |
Sorry, I have this earlobe fetish, didn't mean to frighten you. I meant no harm.  | ||
Mpow Member Username: Mpow Post Number: 212 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 189.135.25.123 |
yeah, though I do think it is wrong to stab someone, people living on the edge are more desperate and often anger is fueled by people not used to homelessness, maybe there was some taunting going on, maybe the fan was drunk. I have seen a lot of visitors to the city tease and accost the homeless. | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 1140 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 208.39.170.77 |
You're kidding, right? | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7883 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
Who gives a fuck what they were doing. Unless they attacked the guy first there is no justificaiton or rationaliztion for stabbing someone. I have been taunted and harrassed a few times in my life and still have yet to stab anyone. I understand that the guy may have had less to lose but how the hell can anyone try to justify his actions. The guy should be in jail for the rest of his life but the courts will probably give him a slap on the wrist. We live in a society where there should be expectations for behavior. When did we get to the point were we 'understand' what may have caused it. I am sympathetic to the situation of the homeless, addicted, etc but I don't give a shit what they may have said or did (if anything) there is no explation to give. The guy is a POS and deserves to be locked up if he is found guilty. | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 350 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 71.65.11.152 |
applause for Jt1 | ||
Wmuchris Member Username: Wmuchris Post Number: 421 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 141.217.44.112 |
What do you think the chances are of this guy getting charged attempted murder? | ||
Mpow Member Username: Mpow Post Number: 213 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 189.135.25.123 |
No, I am not kidding. Put yourself on the street, no job, no hope, no prospects, put a knife in your hand, add one hypothetical belligerent baseball fan (I do not know what caused the Comerica Park incident, but for sake of argument), the stress associated with homelessness is probably something myself and most people on the forum will never experience in their lifetimes. | ||
Warriorfan Member Username: Warriorfan Post Number: 508 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 70.160.37.222 |
Wow, could you possibly make ANY more unsubstantiated assumptions? So now this was some down-on-his-luck homeless guy who just happened to be carrying a knife for some reason who was taunted and abused by a drunken white suburbanite? You do realize that most of these homeless people are on the streets because of their poor decisions in life, whether it be dropping out of school or getting hooked on drugs or just being unable/unwilling to hold down a real job. How's this for the sake of argument? A guy comes out of Comerica Park after a Tigers game and just wants to walk back to his car in peace without being accosted by 100 panhandlers looking for a handout when he is approached by a belligerent and pushy homeless man who won't take "no" for an answer. I've had homeless men walk along with me and continually pester me for money even after being repeatedly told "no." I've had homeless people curse at me or make a nasty remark after I refuse to give them money to feed their habits. Maybe the problem doesn't lie with the VICTIM, did you ever think of that, and yes, the guy who got stabbed here is the victim, not the homeless drunk who stabbed him. | ||
Steelworker Member Username: Steelworker Post Number: 729 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 67.38.21.236 |
first time i may agree with warriorfan | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7884 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
I will probably never understand the need to stab someone. I guess there are a lot of things I will never understand. | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 91 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 75.10.91.78 |
Most of the homeless on our streets are mentally ill, this is an effect of dismantling the state's mental health system in the early 90s. The mentally ill now roam the streets getting into trouble like this or wind up in an overcrowded prison that is ill equipped to deal with them where they get cut loose after a period of time, still sick in the head. | ||
Wazootyman Member Username: Wazootyman Post Number: 126 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 68.75.220.9 |
Maybe it's time we start stabbing the homeless people back. | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 1142 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 208.39.170.77 |
Awesome. | ||
Mpow Member Username: Mpow Post Number: 214 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 189.135.25.123 |
already happening wazootyman, a list: http://www.nationalhomeless.or g/getinvolved/projects/hatecri mes/narratives.html | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7885 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
And the assholes that attack the homeless are just as worthless as the homeless that attack others. | ||
Mpow Member Username: Mpow Post Number: 215 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 189.135.25.123 |
agreed. always two sides to the story jtl | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 4328 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 71.236.229.212 |
jjaba was shown some gold jewelery in Capitol Park. He walked away. jjaba was followed by some guy, he walked faster. Have some fucking street smarts down there. If you are walking downtown, you can avoid Capitol Park. Nobody tried to put their fingers in jjaba's ears, and thankfully, Supersport wasn't in the neighborhood. jjaba, trying to stay out of trouble. | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 105 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 66.195.132.2 |
I don't want to sound like I don't care about the homeless, but if Detroit wants to attract people downtown and visitors from other cities, you got to get the homeless people the hell out of downtown and the surrounding area. You want people to think that it's safe to walk around downtown. | ||
Mpow Member Username: Mpow Post Number: 216 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 189.135.25.123 |
jjaba is an experienced detroiter. I don't see him getting stabbed anytime soon unless he wanders the east side. smile. | ||
Mpow Member Username: Mpow Post Number: 217 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 189.135.25.123 |
after 4 years on this forum, I finally have been sucked in on a thread. | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1849 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
No. You actually want it to be safe to walk around downtown. I could really give 2 shits about your perception of the safety. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2783 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.105.80 |
I can already hear today's phone conversation that that Mike & Marian Ilitch are giving KK right now about the lack of law enforcement NOT involved with traffic at Comerica Park... and about the shootings in Capitol Park and on Park Ave... I'm sure KK is getting an earful! | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 108 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 66.195.132.2 |
That's the right idea. You shouldn't give a shit about whether or not out of town people and suburbanites want to come downtown. After all they just have most of the money in metro Detroit. I guess you don't give a shit whether or not out of towners stay in hotels downtown, after all downtown Detroit doesn't need money coming in. There's no need for outside investment. | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 1143 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 208.39.170.77 |
Milwaukee schools must not teach reading comprehension until 10th grade. | ||
Border5150 Member Username: Border5150 Post Number: 168 Registered: 03-2004 Posted From: 64.53.4.254 |
Well said Cambrian. We can all thank Johnny Engler for that. Mpow: Actually, there are THREE sides to every story: yours, their's, and the TRUTH. While nothing ever justifies stabing another person, I do have to wonder if there was any taunting going on... | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 464 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 68.60.181.41 |
Listen, I'm a very sympathetic person, practically a commie. But I was standing there, minding my own business, not drunk, not belligerent. I was a woman, and it might have looked like I was alone, and I think that was what got me into trouble. I think we need more mental health facilities, we need universal health care so the ill can get their medication, we need to think through what happens to indigent people in our society. But I also have the right to walk to the ballpark, or to anywhere in the City of Detroit. I don't want that guy beaten and jailed but I never want to go through that again. My sympathy evaporated the minute those fingers began massaging my ear, and that creepy voice went oooh helloooooooo. I am street smart, I've been around for a year or two but this one totally caught me off guard. | ||
Alobar Member Username: Alobar Post Number: 117 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 198.208.251.23 |
Is it just me or do we see a rise in violence/crime every year around this time? There IS a NOTICABLE rise of tension on the streets of downtown right now IMO. I have had multiple venomous confrontations with homeless the past couple weeks that could have escalated much further if I didn’t simply ignoring the yelling in my ear and walk away. It seems seasonal; every year as fall kicks in the downtown area gets a bit more hazardous. | ||
Restoretheroar Member Username: Restoretheroar Post Number: 708 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 192.193.220.142 |
"Eat 'em up Tigers, eat 'em up." | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 95 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 75.10.91.78 |
Last fall when I was on the patio at Detroit Beer Co with my friends and the Brew master trying out a new beer; A homeless guy came up to us and said, "I need $1 for the bus.... "or something like that. The Brew Master fired back "I need $300 for my X wife, $200 to pay the rent, $400 for the brakes on my truck...." The homeless guy got frustrated and walked off. We all found this quite humorous. We then started to talk about pan handling in general. What makes it so offensive, they walk up to whites and just expect us to hand over something, like it's some kind of entitlement. I recalled the few times when I was in Toronto, at least there was some effort, some one would be playing an instrument, or break dancing or SOMETHING, with a hat out on the sidewalk. Even if they had no talent, they were at least trying, not just expecting something for nothing. | ||
Tetsua Member Username: Tetsua Post Number: 758 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 68.61.194.237 |
They wouldn't keep on begging people for money, if people didn't keep giving it to them. | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 1144 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 208.39.170.77 |
So what you're saying is that you have to have the black man entertain you before you give him anything? Oh boy, the unintentional comedy in this place gets better and better everyday. | ||
Machoken Member Username: Machoken Post Number: 1490 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 207.145.38.104 |
Come again? | ||
Solarflare Member Username: Solarflare Post Number: 539 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 65.112.56.3 |
More and more I often get asked for money by youths (yutes) who are in no way homeless. Just young punks asking for money. WTF? When did panhandling become fashionable for teens? That is in no way "Keepin it real". | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 96 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 75.10.91.78 |
Susanrossa! Yes exactly what I meant. If a guy's gonna be asking me for money, I'd much rather like it if he had a Chris Rock routine going or something. | ||
Machoken Member Username: Machoken Post Number: 1491 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 207.145.38.104 |
jesus christ, where's Rasputin when you need him? | ||
K_solomon Member Username: K_solomon Post Number: 34 Registered: 07-2006 Posted From: 199.178.223.4 |
LMAO at Machoken. Really, I don't think it has anything to do with you being white, black, whatever. I get panhandled almost everytime I walk out of a convienence store, gas station, the cleaners, the car wash, the club. At first I was taken back by it, now I just chalk it up to life in the D. | ||
Tndetroiter Member Username: Tndetroiter Post Number: 283 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 141.217.226.172 |
I think the obervation that Cambrian is trying to make is that hobos are more likely to pester white people because they have a preception that white people have more money. It isn't just the black hobos, it's the white hobos, too. I've noticed that as well. | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1851 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
What the hell kind of a word is hobo? Did they just jump the freight car for the day ride between Fresno and Bakersfield? This is a hobo:  | ||
Tndetroiter Member Username: Tndetroiter Post Number: 286 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 141.217.226.172 |
A hobo can be a panhandler, homeless man, or someother type of vagrant. It's a term used more by younger people today to discribe those kinds of people. There are hobos in Detroit and there is discrimination going on among the hobo population, hobo discrimination, if you will. | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 109 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 69.95.235.189 |
So what you're saying is that you have to have the black man entertain you before you give him anything? Oh boy, the unintentional comedy in this place gets better and better everyday. Susanarosa, when the hell did he ever say the guy was black. You just made that assumption. You thought he was black or did you think that all the homeless were black, or did you think that all blacks are poor and homeless. Sounds like your the rascist full of sterotypes. | ||
Hysteria Member Username: Hysteria Post Number: 1335 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 216.223.168.132 |
What do you mean - hobo discrimination? | ||
Janesback Member Username: Janesback Post Number: 89 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 69.153.12.23 |
^^ ^^ ^^ " break dancing" was the clue for me... | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 1145 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 208.39.170.77 |
I dunno, I thought Cambrians own response pretty much cleared it up...
| ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1852 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
I think it was the phrase "They walk up to whites" that would lead one to infer he was talking about blacks. | ||
Machoken Member Username: Machoken Post Number: 1492 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 207.145.38.104 |
Tndetroiter has a point, although I'd be surprised if it's the correct point in this case. | ||
Ray Member Username: Ray Post Number: 783 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 69.209.169.228 |
This is becoming a joke. I lived in Chicago and SF for nearly 18 years. I can hardly remember incidents downtown or at games at either city. I'm sure they happened but they were a non issue. In SF, violent crime was the farthest thing from one's mind. It just never dawned on you driving around the city that you might be the victim of a crime. Chicago was a little dicier, but one would never hesiate to go to Michigan Avenue or the Loop for fear that one might be shot or stabbed. I have to admit, as much as I love cities and want to support Detroit, I find myself becoming aprehensive about visiting downtown at night becuase of this steady drumbeat of violence. I still go to downtown a lot, and one thing I notice is that excpet for Tiger games the police presence is almost invisible. In Chicago, the cops are everywhere, on foot, on bike, on horse and in cars. Crime -- or rather the fear of crime -- will destroy, squelch, extinguish any hope of revitalizing the city. I'm sorry to see the city is pissing away its most recent wave revitalization through poor policing. | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 2470 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.246.29.74 |
earth to the forum...Many of the "homeless" are mentally ill. Many of the mentally ill are harmless. Some are not. Many are beligerent. Some are just drunk. Some are not. (Incidentally, I saw one very beligerent Tiger fan walking into Slow's a week ago...still had a beer in his hand and was cursing loudly) Some of you might remember a man named John Engler who closed mental health facilities a decade or so ago. Those patients not taken in by their families were given bus tickets to Detroit. (Except for those at the Lafayette Clinic, who were simply escorted out the door). There is a large concentration of such folks in Detroit, especially downtown for any number of reasons, one being Engler's de-institutionalization, another being that they are not tolerated in other cities, and another being the large number of places around the CBD that feed the homeless. You want change? (no pun intended) Write your Senator or Congressman and tell him/her that you want mental health care in this country to be brought back to the level of quality we had before Ronald Reagan. In the meantime, you might consider carrying some pepper spray, just try not to get any on your friends. | ||
Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72 Post Number: 236 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 66.184.3.44 |
With all these negative posts about Detroit on this site, I'm wondering when Lowell will change the name to DetroitNo. Seriously people, to hear folks saying they hesitate to come downtown is just absurd. At last I checked, NY, Chicago and other large cities have this crap happening everyday and they don't lack for tourists. Unfortunately that's life in the big city. | ||
Ray Member Username: Ray Post Number: 785 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 69.209.169.228 |
Detroitej72, I love Detroit and want it to succeed, but I've lived in the heart of major cities for nearly 20 years and I totally disagree with the "life in the big city" rationalization. Detroit is nothing like life in most big cities. When you live and work in downtown Chicago or SF, violent crime at least downtown is a non-factor. You hardly hear about it or think about it and it has no impact on your life. You might as well be in Northville when you're walking down North Michigan Avenue at 9:00 on a Tuesday night. In SF, we lived for years in the middle of the city and got so complacent about crime (which as far as we could tell did not exist at all in our neighorhood) we started leaving cars and doors unlocked. So, life in the other big cities is pretty nice and pretty safe and we need to quit telling ourselves that Detroit is just like any other place. | ||
Warriorfan Member Username: Warriorfan Post Number: 509 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 70.160.37.222 |
My God, you people are worse than the Republicans who blame Clinton for everything. Time to go to school: The beginning of the end of state mental health hospitals in Michigan began in 1963 when President John F. Kennedy signed the Community Mental Health Act, designed to provide treatment in community settings. Thus the era of "deinstitutionalization" began, with the goal being to get people out of state mental health hospitals and into community-based facilities that would be better able to transition them back into the real world. By 1972, Michigan began the process of eliminating its state mental hospitals. Funding to the state mental health system was cut by $1.1 billion and by the time John Engler took office, more than 1/3 of the state's mental hospitals had been closed by Democratic Governor Jim Blanchard (funny how he receives no blame around here). When Enlger took over in 1991, only 3500 people remained in the state hospital system, compared to over 21,000 people two decades earlier who had all been pushed out by previous governors. While it's true that Engler did accelerate the closing of state mental hospitals in response to the state's budget crisis, the whole process of deinsistutionalization was not originiated by him and would have happened regardless of who was Governor or what their party affiliation was. Finally, the hospital closures contined under Granholm. She closed the Northville state mental hospital in 2003, so she could sell the land to help the cash-strapped state. Cuts in state mental health funding to local private hospitals under Granholm has resulted in the closure or downsizing of psych units all over metro Detroit, units at hospitals such as St. Joseph Mercy, Oakwood, Riverside Osteopathic, etc. | ||
Tndetroiter Member Username: Tndetroiter Post Number: 287 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 141.217.226.172 |
In any event, if Kwame wants to piss away the lethargically slow revitalization that's going on in the city, he'll do nothing about this kind of shit. | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 98 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 141.209.84.152 |
Yes, there are still psych wards here and there, HF Kingswood on 8 mile, and Cottage Hopsital in Grosse Point too name a few. But they are not long term facilities. | ||
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill Post Number: 9 Registered: 09-2006 Posted From: 152.163.100.8 |
Its sad to see but it is becoming a problem I have to admit, Ive counted the last several times and walking from my Lafayette Park neighborhood to Campus Martius I was approached for money etc,, 11 times and 9 times two sundays in a row, Its hard to assess the individual asking as being rational or not, I often cant understand what they are saying,, often they walk with you down the block,, This had better get under control, or the viable areas are going to become vacant. I realize many of these people are destitute and need help but leaving them to roam the streets all over downtown is going to make the CBD desolate, Ive lived downtown for 14 years and seen all sorts of phases,, In the last two years I have noticed an major increase of foot traffic at night but this past summer there is a noticeable return of vagrants scaring the heck out of many people on the streets, The police really need to get this under control. I love downtown, definetly am not attracted to the burbs but we are taking a serious step backwards by allowing this condition to grow... Mayor, City Council , Police all need to be contacted by as many people who are genuinly concerned. Hopefully this will not continue to be ignored. To say this doesnt happen in other cities would be a lie also however, Heck I work in Toronto 3 times a month and take a walk down Yonge St at night,, its just as bad, they have had gang shootings right at the Eaton Center in which a girl shopping with her mother was killed and several innocents injured,,This problem is not unique. However that is each one of those cities problems, we need to address our own if we love this city | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 2472 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.246.29.74 |
Warriorfan wrote: The beginning of the end of state mental health hospitals in Michigan began in 1963 when President John F. Kennedy signed the Community Mental Health Act, designed to provide treatment in community settings. Thus the era of "deinstitutionalization" began, with the goal being to get people out of state mental health hospitals and into community-based facilities that would be better able to transition them back into the real world. Trouble is, this barely happened. Gee, sorry to pick on the Republicrites. Homelessness soared nationally in the 1980s. Who was president then? While there are a scattering of supervised group homes around the city, most of the mentally ill seem to be wandering around on their own. And I'm guessing that most of those 3500 people that Warrior mentions are all wandering around within ten miles of the CBD. Engler also gets extra credit for eliminating General Assistance, which put a lot of dysfunctional people out on the street. Not that I was entirely against that, BTW. When GA was cut in 1991, a number of rundown buildings in my neighborhood were nearly emptied of their tenants, who mostly sat out front drinking 40's. And the slumlord owners were suddenly forced to scramble for tenants. Many of them went out of business. But many of the ex-tenants are still wandering around the streets. I don't llike Kwame, but what's he supposed to do? Outlaw homelessness? Make enforcing vagrancy laws a priority over enforcing laws against violent crimes? You can't even get the cops to show up for a carjacking these days. Mental Health care is expensive, but jailing people is even more expensive, and if none of you noticed, the jails are already full of real criminals, many of whom seem to be getting released early. | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 2473 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.246.29.74 |
Warriorfan wrote: The beginning of the end of state mental health hospitals in Michigan began in 1963 when President John F. Kennedy signed the Community Mental Health Act, designed to provide treatment in community settings. Thus the era of "deinstitutionalization" began, with the goal being to get people out of state mental health hospitals and into community-based facilities that would be better able to transition them back into the real world. Trouble is, this barely happened. Gee, sorry to pick on the Republicrites. Homelessness soared nationally in the 1980s. Who was president then? While there are a scattering of supervised group homes around the city, most of the mentally ill seem to be wandering around on their own. And I'm guessing that most of those 3500 people that Warrior mentions are all wandering around within ten miles of the CBD. Engler also gets extra credit for eliminating General Assistance, which put a lot of dysfunctional people out on the street. Not that I was entirely against that, BTW. When GA was cut in 1991, a number of rundown buildings in my neighborhood were nearly emptied of their tenants, who mostly sat out front drinking 40's. And the slumlord owners were suddenly forced to scramble for tenants. Many of them went out of business. But many of the ex-tenants are still wandering around the streets. I don't llike Kwame, but what's he supposed to do? Outlaw homelessness? Make enforcing vagrancy laws a priority over enforcing laws against violent crimes? You can't even get the cops to show up for a carjacking these days. Mental Health care is expensive, but jailing people is even more expensive, and if none of you noticed, the jails are already full of real criminals, many of whom seem to be getting released early. | ||
Thecarl Member Username: Thecarl Post Number: 954 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 69.14.124.225 |
barnes, you're straying from the facts, and presenting an emotional defense. releasing folks from mental health institutions started gaining momentum *worldwide* in the 1950's. sanitariums had gained regard as an inhumane form of incarceration. with the advent of psychotropic drugs, it was felt that many mentally ill people could be returned to society, rather than live in a bizarre dungeon where patients had their rights stripped away. surely, barnes, you remember hillary's "it takes a village" statement! that was the approach to rehabilitating the homeless. | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 99 Registered: 08-2006 Posted From: 141.209.84.152 |
quote:I don't llike Kwame, but what's he supposed to do with the homeless? Round up a few bus loads of 'em and drop them off on Orchard Lake, Big Beaver or Dixie Highway through Clarkston. I bet the phones would start ringing real quick up in Lansing. | ||
Gianni Member Username: Gianni Post Number: 240 Registered: 05-2004 Posted From: 69.3.251.25 |
Just a practical tip here. I walk from Lafayette Park through Greektown to Campus Martius or the River or Harmonie Park probably several times a week. Usually with my 2 daughters, ages 10 and 6, and often with my wife. EVERY time I do this I am approached by at least one homeless panhandler. Once in a rare while I will give them money. But as I get older and wiser almost never. This ALWAYS works: I look them in the eye and say "I'm sorry sir (ma'm) I can't help you out right now." I repeat, it ALWAYS works. But you have to mean it. A little respect, and you are not saying never. I am certainly not condoning homeless people stabbing baseball fans, even if they were taunted. I'm just saying that a tiny bit of respect will make 99% of these people stop bothering you. There's this one homeless woman I see all the time. When she is having bad symptoms she paces up and down Lafayette looking behind her and talking to herself. But when she is lucid, which is most of the time, she recognizes us and asks how the girls (or wife) are if one or the other is not there. I tell her to stay safe or stay warm. Only once did she ask me for money and when I pointed out that she had never asked me for money before she became very apologetic. I gave her a couple of dollars and she has never asked again. I don't know where she sleeps. She's been around Lafayette Park and Greektown for many years. She usually has clean clothes. (No I'm not talking about Stella if anyone remembers her). A panhandler is nothing to be afraid of. Or even annoyed by really. If this sort of thing bothers you, go to the suburbs -- but not Royal Oak or Ann Arbor. Most of these people are mentally ill. If you want to be outraged, be outraged that our society has dumped these mentally ill people on the streets of our cities to fend for themselves. And if you want to be afraid of something, be afraid of a sociopathic teeneager putting a gun in your face. That is something worth complaining about along with the very real lack of police presence most of the time, in most places, in Detroit. But give these miserable homeless people a break. But for the grace of God, the loss of a job or family or some cataclysmic hardship, or even a lapse in medication, you or I could be one of them. | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 2475 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.246.29.74 |
quote: "Barnes, you're straying from the facts, and presenting an emotional defense"... OK, an informal poll here for those forumers old enough to remember shopping at Downtown Hudson's... When did you start noticing dozens of homeless people hanging out downtown? And does anybody besides me think that the quality of mental health care peaked in the late 19th century with the "County Farms" that housed the mentally ill? It takes a village indeed. And if the homeless/mentally ill were distributed evenly, (Sorry, does that sound "Socialist?") i.e. a few down here, a few on Orchard Lake, a few on Big Beaver, a few in downtown Northville, I'd guess that the problem might finally be confronted. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4987 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.229 |
Last night when I went to the Ghettoman's Street Prophet Meeting in a disclosed location at Detroit's lower East Side. We've talked the growing po'folks problem and the stabbing incident to Comerica Park. And the Ghettoman repsonded," When the person lost its job or its life or hooked on drugs, it lost its home, when a person lost its home, it's get delusional, when a person gets delusionsal, it checks into a mental hospital, of the mental hospital either closed down or don't make the person sane, it walks out, then this person, who lost its mind gets homeless, begging for money and go to a life of crime." That's what going to be for the po'folks until they declared themselves ready and fit for this earning society in America. WELCOME TO DETROIT. WE HOPE YOU SURVIVE!!! (Message edited by danny on September 14, 2006) | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 992 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 4.229.123.102 |
Create an economic oasis in the middle of a desert and the desperate will begin encroaching the oasis. Thats the problem with trying to polish only certain key parts of a city. Dump some money into neighborhoods to balance it out. | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 470 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 68.60.181.41 |
For the record, we have a homeless/panhandler problem in Royal Oak. The area around the bus station is full of them, they hang out at Fourth and Main (in front of the coffee place) and walk the streets. I get approached frequently. They are almost always white. (for those keeping score) I wonder how many of these people would be helped by their meds? A place to sleep? A meal? We are in the "richest country in the world" according to many on this board. Why can't we help the vulnerable, therefore helping ourselves? We refuse to spend any money to solve a problem, only plump up CEO pay packages. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10592 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.118.137.226 |
Since Rasputin ain't stopped in yet, please allow me to put his shoes on. After last night's game, there were more than a few fans I would have liked to stab. Perhaps this particular fan was runnin' his mouth when he shouldn't have. At least he lives to see another day, a day when he'll learn to shut the fuck up and walk away, like anybody with even the littlest bit of street smarts would have done. (slipping off Rasputin's shoes) | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1324 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 136.1.1.154 |
Pretty good. He was charged with assault with intent to murder: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20060914/NEW S02/609140426/1004/NEWS | ||
Gianni Member Username: Gianni Post Number: 243 Registered: 05-2004 Posted From: 209.104.144.90 |
Quote from the Free Press article: _______________________ Farr-El approached Andrews at 8 p.m. as he and a woman were at Witherell and Elizabeth near the Comerica Park box office. The Tigers were playing Texas. Farr-El begged the couple for money, saying, "Help a veteran." Andrews said to him, "You ain't no veteran," and he and the woman continued walking. Farr-El, who is black, followed Andrews, who is white, spewing racial slurs and calling him fat. Then Farr-El raised his hands in a threatening manner. ___________________________ Easy for me to say now, but like I said, "I'm sorry sir I can't help you out right now" might have worked better than "You ain't no veteran." | ||
Neilr Member Username: Neilr Post Number: 341 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 68.60.139.212 |
When asked for money, the response that I use is, "Thank you; but not today." It works. | ||
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill Post Number: 12 Registered: 09-2006 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
Gianni,I appreciate your comments on talking to the street people and they are interesting but what scares the hell out of many people (including myself at times) is you really dont know what this person is up to, Whether its a need for money, or a posible threatening altercation is very hard to assess at the time. In my walks from Lafayette I have had some just ask me for money ( non offensive) while others grab me and hold on to me while im walking downt the street ,, I not so willing to be polite to an agressive passerby, I have no idea if he is mentally ill, violent or armed and not willing to take the time to find out, this does not make me feel that I should have to move to the burbs after 14 years either, As a Detroiter we have a right to expect some safety . I hope you and your family have safe travels , just be careful, unfortunately some of these people are not mentally rational. | ||
Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72 Post Number: 250 Registered: 05-2006 |
This Farr-El clown should be charged with a hate crime since he obviosly stabbed Andrews because of his race. | ||
Janesback Member Username: Janesback Post Number: 98 Registered: 08-2006 |
Detroit,I dont think blacks can be charged with a hate crime, unless Andrews was a homosexual . I have heard arguments that the hate crime was legislated to give special treatment to its victims, i.e, gays, blacks, asians, hispanics. I dont think whites apply, unless they are gay? If Farr-el is charged, I wonder if civil rights activists will come out of the woodwork...... | ||
Ravine Member Username: Ravine Post Number: 376 Registered: 01-2006 |
I run into panhandlers all the time. It's irritating, but just part of life in a big city. However (referring to Detroitbill's above post,) if one of them grabs me, they had better hope there is no traffic riding by, because I may invoke what I see as my right to throw their sorry ass into the street. Actually GRAB me? WTF? | ||
Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72 Post Number: 251 Registered: 05-2006 |
Quote: Detroit,I dont think blacks can be charged with a hate crime, unless Andrews was a homosexual ______________________________ ___________________ I know Jane, I was just being flip. Trying to lighten the mod around here. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 645 Registered: 06-2006 |
Definition of hate crime, according to Wikipedia: Hate crimes (also known as bias crimes) are violent crimes, hate speech or vandalism, motivated by feelings of enmity against an identifiable social group. If systematic, rather than spontaneous, participants in such crimes are members of hate groups. Social group, in this context is: In sociology, a group is usually defined as a collection of humans or animals, who share certain characteristics, interact with one another, accept expectations and obligations as members of the group, and share a common identity. Using this definition, society can appear as a large group. I guess it can be anyone who is or isn't like the perpetrator of such a crime, it all depends on the intent (was it racially motivated) of the crime. In all theory, if a black person commits a violent crime against another black person because that person is black, then it can be classified as a hate crime. I asked my bros in law, a cop, and he said that it is possible for a hate crime to be committed against someone who shares the same characteristics as the perpetrator, but the message in the crime is the relevant aspect. Rarely happens, but it can. Whites can be victims of hate crimes just like anyone else, gay or not. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4995 Registered: 02-2004 |
The Ghettoman said to me and Street Prophets. " If you say declare yourself by means of negative words. then you're going to do bad things. And you declare yourself by using positive words then you're going to do good things." | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4996 Registered: 02-2004 |
Janesback, You quoted that If Farr-el is charged, I wonder if civil rights activists will come out of the woodwork...... I say, If Farr-el did the stabbing then it is a crime. | ||
Zephyrprocess Member Username: Zephyrprocess Post Number: 39 Registered: 08-2006 |
He's being charged with assault with intent to murder and felonious assault: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=2006609260409 | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 5009 Registered: 02-2004 |
The Ghettoman wants me to write this message to this forum and he wrote, "Surprise all of you Detroit leaders and the RepublicRATS!! You have seen and hear the events between a black homeless Detroiter and a home bound White Detroiter man and his friend. A black homeless Detroit man told the white Detroiter man to pay me money or pay with your life! Now this black homeless Detroit will approached his jugdement and hell in the cell will eat him up eternally." This would a lesson to all of you. America is Capitalism, it a earning society which you have to work to for your keep. If you don't work, you don't eat! (Message edited by danny on September 26, 2006) | ||
Warriorfan Member Username: Warriorfan Post Number: 529 Registered: 08-2005 |
???? Stopped taking your Haldol again? From the freep article: "All I wanted to do was go see a baseball game," Andrews, 31, of Detroit said Monday as he testified about the attack in 36th District Court in Detroit. The man who was stabbed was NOT A SUBURBANITE. Yes Virginia, white people can live in Detroit too. And no, contrary to what Super_D and Supersport think, being white in Detroit and "running your mouth" does not mean you deserve to be stabbed. And now that we know that the homeless man used racial slurs directed towards the victim prior to stabbing him, why is he not being charged under the hate crime laws? | ||
Mtm Member Username: Mtm Post Number: 108 Registered: 06-2006 |
If you want to help the homeless, give to local charities: FocusHOPE (personal fav), Detroit Rescue Mission (DRMM), Coalition on Temporary Shelter (COTS), Salvation Army, heck! any number of soup kitchens! I'm not overly fond of the preaching from DRMM and Salvation Army but sometime it helps troubled people. | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 970 Registered: 11-2004 |
Sts. Peter and Paul on Jefferson and St. Antione, along with St. Al's on Washington Blvd also do homeless outreach. Sts. Peter and Paul: www.sspeterandpauljesuit.org St. Al's: http://www.aodonline.org/nr/ao d/customapplications/parish/pa rish.asp?InstitutionID=11&FRAM ELESS=true&NRNODEGUID=%7b3480A 97F-ECB0-4F72-AEA7-D454CBF6C54 5%7d | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 5011 Registered: 02-2004 |
Warriorfan, I have talked to the Ghettoman and he gave me permission to change the viewpoints. | ||
Ron Member Username: Ron Post Number: 297 Registered: 03-2006 |
The article also noted that Judge Lipscomb, by no means a detractor of Detroit, noted the out-of-control panhandling occurring in the city. He noted this while DOUBLING the man's bond. Interesting. | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 1373 Registered: 10-2005 |
relation to you, ron? | ||
Warriorfan Member Username: Warriorfan Post Number: 530 Registered: 08-2005 |
From reading the article, it seems this whole thing developed after the victim called out the homeless person for pretending to be a veteran. It is disgusting that some of these panhandlers falsely claim military service in order to play on the public's sense of patriotism. The "toothpick on a stick" scam is a common one, and it is called the "foot in the door" technique. Namely, once you have received something, no matter how small, (like a small American flag sticker on a toothpick), you feel more obligated to stop and listen to the person and even to give them a small token in return (because they have "given" you something first). I would be a cold day in Hell before I ever reward someone trying to pull a scam like that, pretending to be a vet no less. I don't blame Mr Andrews for calling this homeless person out, he smelled a scam and probably didn't appreciate it. | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 2533 Registered: 10-2003 |
yeah, the toothpick flag trick is almost as common as the "bus to Pontiac" and the "I haven't eaten in two days" appeals. Of course, some of the homeless actually ARE vets. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 1815 Registered: 07-2004 |
I thought atty's were smart. The public defender said there was no evidence that the perp was attempting to murder the victim............exactly what the fuck is someone "attempting " to do when they repeatedly srab someone with a kife? What an idiotic defense. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 484 Registered: 02-2006 |
Lawyers are smart. They're also paid to be liars, basically. So there you have it. | ||
Ravine Member Username: Ravine Post Number: 393 Registered: 01-2006 |
My bro-in-law is a vet. He also lost an arm and leg in a misfortune involving a train. He could hang around in public, looking pitiful in his wheelchair and begging, but he's not a sorry-ass, so he doesn't. | ||
Wmuchris Member Username: Wmuchris Post Number: 453 Registered: 06-2005 |
Citylover what would you want your defense attorney to argue if you were charged with "assault with intent to murder?" That there was no assault? A bunch of witnesses will come forward proving the assault. The defendant is basically fukd, so by arguing the Defendant's state of mind the attorney is doing what he can with a bad case. There really isn't much else he can do. Remove the intent to murder and you have assault; so it really isn't a bad defense. But attorneys are supposed to be smarter than that, so if you ever need one, I'll expect you to represent yourself. | ||
Ron Member Username: Ron Post Number: 300 Registered: 03-2006 |
MotorcityMayor, No relation, my last name is Liscombe. He once asked me though how to spell my last name, and he cracked a joke about reparations. Very nice man, and very conscientious jurist. His Handgun Intervention Program is very effective, and he actually cares about the city and the parties that appear before him. He does not suffer fools, though. Citylover, don't ever believe that all attorneys are smart. Just look at me. FocusontheD, attorneys are not necessarily paid to lie. We are paid to present our clients' version of a particular incident. Our clients may be liars, but we are merely presenting their side of the story. All court proceedings are adversarial in nature, because that is the best way to reach the truth. If they weren't adversarial, they would be inquisitorial, as the system in France is. I think our system is better suited (although far from perfect) for finding the truth, as we let the parties fight each other, and let a presumedly "neutral" magistrate arbitrate between the two. Wmuchris, very astute observation. The best way to obtain an acquittal in a specific intent offense to eliminate the requisite intent. I'm sure that is what the defense attorney is attempting to do. You should go to law school, if you already haven't. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 1816 Registered: 07-2004 |
My tactic would be to ask for a trial and then plea bargain.I am sure that is not as "smart" as some including you wmuchris but this is so obviously a case of attempted murder that no judge or maybe one in ten thou would actually by this argument presented by the pd. I know he was just doing what he was suppoed to do it just amuses me what they will try fr their clients. Seems like there would be a better chance for a plea bargain . Btw I won't ever be in a position where I will need a criminal defense atty and be facing prison.c | ||
Wmuchris Member Username: Wmuchris Post Number: 456 Registered: 06-2005 |
The Prosecutor is not going to offer a plea-bargian, why would he when there shouldn't be any problem proving the charge. This case is a slam dunk. The Defense attorney is playing the cards he has been dealt. And I do sincerely hope that you never are in a position where you need a criminal defense atty. | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 80 Registered: 11-2005 |
who was taunted and abused by a drunken white suburbanite According to the Free Press, the stabee is white, but he lives in Detroit, not the suburbs. I like how everyone always assumes that because someone is white that they live in the suburbs. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 1817 Registered: 07-2004 |
I sincerely hope the same for you. I of course am not a lawyer and I probably don't think like one.But years ago I talked to a criminal atty and he told me he does his best to minimize his clients exposure to the system. Just because I find this interesting why wouldn't the prosecutor plea bargain aside from the case being a slam dunk? If (prosecutor) was satisfied with the sentence couldn't a lesser charge suffice? Probably a silly question. Also wouldn't defendant history such as no priors if that were the case also make a plea bargain easier? Ironically I am related to three former(2 trying cases in heaven or...........) circuit judges and a district ct judge but have never had the nerve to ask them much. | ||
Ron Member Username: Ron Post Number: 301 Registered: 03-2006 |
They may make an offer, but it probably won't be a good one. If they can get approximately the same sentence by plea as by trial when the facts are clearcut, they will go for a plea everytime. Unless it is extremely high profile, and extremely egregious. This may qualify. And citylover, while I hope you never are in a position to need a crim defense atty, just remember, you don't have to actually be guilty to be charged. (In fact, prisons are full of "innocent" people)(Sorry, I had to throw that one in there )(But my assertion still stands) | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 1818 Registered: 07-2004 |
Good point Ron_ about the being charged thing_ Conicidentally I was talking with a friend earlier this eve and I learned he had a female penpal pen for penitentiary_ I asked him what she had done and the most he could get out of her was .. she had made some mistakes... perhaps one of those innocent residents clogging up the prisons | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10672 Registered: 10-2003 |
Why is this thread still alive? There have been plenty stabbed, shot and murdered since this incident. Let's move on people, this topic is so yesterday. Tell me, if it were just some stabbing in some Detroit neighborhood would this thread still be going? | ||
Wmuchris Member Username: Wmuchris Post Number: 457 Registered: 06-2005 |
Supersport, a real man of the people. | ||
Meliss Member Username: Meliss Post Number: 247 Registered: 02-2005 |
No. And that apathy shows in the neighborhoods around Mt. Eliot and Hendrie, for example. Plus, Lowell would have tried to hide it in an "About the Forum" superthread. | ||
Lombaowski Member Username: Lombaowski Post Number: 19 Registered: 11-2004 |
Rudolph Giuliani took all the riffraff from Manhattan and moved it to the Bronx to clean up a downtown/uptown that had become dangerous and dirty. I suggest we do the same and send them to Youngstown Ohio. I’ll help pay for the buses. | ||
Ron Member Username: Ron Post Number: 303 Registered: 03-2006 |
Citylover, Yeah it is very unfortunate, and I think relatively rare, but there are incidents where innocent people get railroaded. And, it does sound like your friend's penpal is one of the "innocents." | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 1376 Registered: 10-2005 |
Just wonderin. Thanks | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 5020 Registered: 02-2004 |
Supersport, This tread is still alive because of RACE!!! BLACK HOMELESS DETROITER STABBED WHITE DETROITER. That would be the headlines. |
