Discuss Detroit » Archives - Beginning July 2006 » Zulu News Analysis- The Detroit Teachers Strike « Previous Next »
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Zulu_warrior
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Username: Zulu_warrior

Post Number: 2996
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.251.27.41
Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 12:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As the Detroit Teacher strike continues in to its 10th day, the stakes have become more severe, with several winners and losers in the balance.

On the surface, this strike is seen as a fight for teachers pay increases. In actuality, it is about control of the district and its future.

The reality is that the Detroit Public School system is the single largest employer within Detroit, and is the economic engine for most African American households in SE michigan. DPS is the soldifying force for a generation of the Black Middle Class in Detroit.

DPS is also the single largest provider of new Blacks to higher education and is indeed the most effective producer of educated African Americans in Michigan. DPS supplies more than its share to Black Colleges and Universities and to Michigan's Public and Private Universities.

With that being said, the prevailing logic of DPS's misery's is compounded by the notion that DPS Teachers rank among the highest in terms of certifications and standards in the nation. Indeed it is easier to leave Detroit as a teacher and get a jobs somewhere else than it is to come here and just walk into a job.

The strike at hand, however, derails progress in both actual academic achievement and consumer confidence. The district has had 4 straight years of MEAP score improvements and have even attracted some suburban parents to place their kids at DPS schools.

http://www.detroitk12.org/admi n/ceo/pdfs/2004_2005_AnnualRep ortWeb.pdf#search=%22Detroit%2 0Public%20schools%20academic%2 0performance%20%20meap%20score s%22

Winners and losers

The Union Rank and File - loser

The Teachers Union is in a strategic disadvantage in this strike. In the short run, the tactic would make sense prior to the opening of school classes. In the long run, teachers will ultimately have to be laid off to compensate for the loss of students. Since 1999 DPS has lost approximately 40,000 students. According to DPS, in 2005 the per pupil income was $11,324. With a average teacher pay around $63,900 in DPS, every 6th students leaving the district reduces the teaching staff by 1 teacher. In fact, that number of students, represents some $452 million in lost revenue. if a teachers were laid off based on that revenue loss - 7,089 teachers would be gone.

The Union Leadership- winner

This strike purports that the leadership is fighting for the teaches and children, when it only aggrandizes their standings with some union rank and file. Remember that barely a year ago, DFT members were close to replacing the leadership, due to unpopular stances on the mayoral election and slow responses to proposal E. Now it seems that the union leadership by getting the strike vote has emboldened the dft of Leaderhip profile for the time being

The Mayor- winner

Although the Mayor wants a better education for all kids, the Mayor has made no secret about his goals of increasing charter schools in Detroit, and this serves the argument that more charters need to be authroized. Even if many parents went to leave the district, there is a saturation point for the current charters and the surrounding schools; thus current promotion of new charters has begun in the State Legisture.

The Parents- losers

As the price of child care continues to rise, the DPS parent is ready have schools back in session. The monetary and emotional investment of DPS kids by parents is increasing , with more parent participation at the younger age levels. Politics of this strike fan the flames of the DPS parents who were on the edge of leaving the district....and now see more reason too.

The Judge- Loser

The judge could order the teachers back, but is hesitant due to the voting power of DFT. Susan Borman ran for Michigan State Supreme Court and came in a close 3rd for the position, she doesnt want to order the teachers back and lose some potential 11,000 votes. At the same time to keep ordering negotiations makes her look in effective, and will anger other western wayne voters, especially if DPS kids begin enrolling in outlying districts....
http://www.esri.com/news/arcne ws/fall05articles/earning-all. html

At the end of the day, this strike will end when either judge or the union leadership has an out to save face... and before.
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Kiplinger
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Username: Kiplinger

Post Number: 30
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 208.44.60.32
Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 12:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I heard part of a conversation on the Mildred Gaddis show yesterday morning that one neighboring district already has 492 former Detroit students enrolled this year. I came in after they named the district. Did anyone hear what district they were referencing?
Zulu - I agree with most of what you said but I'm not sure that the mayor is a winner. Parents in the district are asking for viable options for their children's education and charter schools are one way that is partially in his control. He should be helping to find alternatives. And while I don't think charter schools are the complete answer, I do think they offer an option that in past wasn't there so people had to deal with DPS like it or not.
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Psip
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Username: Psip

Post Number: 1168
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 68.60.45.70
Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 12:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I wonder if this strike could approach the 1968 strike where Mary Ellen Riordan led the teachers on a 4 week long work stoppage. Our old friend Norman Drachler was the school superintendent.
Lets nope not!

Side note: This strike rose William Milliken to prominence across Michigan, he was Lt.Gov and G. Romney was out campaigning for RMN while the strike was going on. Milliken is credited with getting involved with the dispute.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 4961
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.84.83
Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 1:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Let the war continue between DPS and School Board. Everytime a student leaves Detroit public Schools the district losses $75.00 per grant from the state. Take 492-75.00 that would be a loss of $417.00. And more fed up parents are taking their children and leave DPS to those EVIL Charter Schools and suburban schools.
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1127
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 152.163.100.8
Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 1:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Danny, you mean $7,500, not $75.00. But you are correct, the longer this goes on, the more students that leave to go elsewhere. The problem is A) there is not enough space in all the school that exist to take in all the displaced DPS students, and even if the state does approve a huge expansion of charters (which they have wanted to do for years), do you honestly think that many charter schools can successfully get up and running and be good enough to meet the educational needs of all those children. I know there are successful charters and many unsuccessful ones, but given the ratio that currently exist between many more bad ones there are compared to good, this is going to be a mess and the children will be the ones screwed (not that they are not already by the current situation).
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Border5150
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Username: Border5150

Post Number: 167
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 64.53.4.254
Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 1:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Zulu, You forgot one thing.

The biggest losers of all in this mess: the students
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K_solomon
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Username: K_solomon

Post Number: 31
Registered: 07-2006
Posted From: 199.178.223.4
Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 1:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Danny/Bob,

Im probably missing something here but:

Revenue per pupil=11,324
Students lost= 492

Loss to DPS= $5,571,408?
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 1365
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 1:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought I heard on WJR that the Michigan Legislature recently upped the $7400 grant to $11,000 especially for DPS. Was this a bill that passed or was this just talk?
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Zulu_warrior
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Username: Zulu_warrior

Post Number: 3000
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.251.27.41
Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 1:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Parents leaving the district....


http://www.clickondetroit.com/ news/9800191/detail.html?treet s=det&tid=2654296162813&tml=de t_12pm&tmi=det_12pm_1_10500009 072006&ts=H
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 614
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 1:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Livernois: I don't think the increase has happened yet. This is the latest info I could find on per pupil state aid:

http://www.michigan.gov/docume nts/January_147864_7.pdf
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Zulu_warrior
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Username: Zulu_warrior

Post Number: 3002
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Posted From: 68.251.27.41
Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 1:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The number $11,234 acording to the DPS administration. This, however, may include the SEV plus other revenues as well

http://www.detroit.k12.mi.us/d ata/finance/ComprehesniveAnnua lFinancialReport_6-30-2005.pdf #search=%22SEV%20detroit%20sch ools%22
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1128
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.98.224
Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 2:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Livernoisyard, that has not happened yet but it was proposed. I the recently passed education budget there was not only a $220 increase in the per pupil allowance given to each district, but districts that have been losing students received a slightly larger amount (I can't remember what that amount was, nothng significant, but a little more). This is to help districts losing pupils try to land on their feet softly, not with a thud like most are right now. K_Soloman, you didn't miss anything, you did the math and that is correct. This something that is happening state-wide (DPS is just so large it is a larger money amount). I was just moving the decimal point in the amount.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 1366
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Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 2:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Now that the inevitable small number of students are leaving, the next step is to put the entire lot of DPS teachers on the chopping block and open up the teacher hiring process to free-market forces. If the previous teachers want to reapply--fine, but be advised that the free-market price for a DPS teacher is apt to come in at far less than they are getting now.
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Oldredfordette
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Username: Oldredfordette

Post Number: 411
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 68.60.181.41
Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 2:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, we need the cheapest teachers we can get. Fuck the children, we need WalMart Teachers!
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Lowell
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Username: Lowell

Post Number: 2946
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.81.50.7
Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 2:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quality analysis, just as we have come to expect from you Zulu!
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1129
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Posted From: 68.42.98.224
Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 2:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Livernoisyard, that may be true now, given the state of the MI economy, but it still does not solve the problems that are plaguing DPS. 7,000 highly qualified teachers are a lot to hire for a urban district plagued by adminstration problems. Given how the MI economy is in the crapper, even if they were able to convince 7,000 new teachers to come to DPS, and get teachers to cross picket lines to work for reduced pay and benefits, what would happen when the economy improves, would these same teachers not bail for greener pastures, much like what happens in numerous charter schools (not all but a lot of them), when the teachers bail at the first chance they get for a better teaching situation in which they are paid better, treated better, and given better resources. Why do you think there are teacher shortages in other states, because people do not want to teach there. Miami-Dade Schools makes Detroit look like Birmingham or West Bloomfield. And not to mention none of this actually fixes the problems with DPS. What are parents biggest complaint (besides not being able to currently attend class)? Schools are not safe, they are not clean, not enough textbooks, supplies, etc. Hiring new teachers does not fix the problem, it continues the cycle. And really this whole situation is a lose, lose for the children. They are the ones getting screwed. Ultimately what will determine what will happen is what the parents want. If they want charters, they will get them because they will pressure the legislature to do it. If they want vouchers, they will eventually get them, if enough people want them. All of this may not be what is best for the children, but neither is not being in school at all. But to just hire a new teaching staff will not solve what is the root of the problem.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 1367
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Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 2:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The little press coverage from the papers seems to illustrate that not having classes at DPS is probably no big deal because not much is expected from their students anyway.

DPS's student and teacher attendance rates are also relatively low compared to less-dysfunctional school districts. So, after a few days, the teachers will return and it'll be (bad) business as usual.

(Message edited by LivernoisYard on September 07, 2006)
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1130
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Posted From: 68.42.98.224
Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 2:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is actually quite a few article is todays Freep about this exact topic (I have it sitting right next to me). There is front page article, and then in the local section they talk about life without teachers, info about the judge, info on the strike law, and few editorials about it from individuals.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 1368
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Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 2:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Look into the Det News today. For a ten-day strike, there isn't much coverage.

An academically functional school district in a major city would have had more than the perfunctory coverage the DPS strike is receiving.
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1131
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Posted From: 68.42.98.224
Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 3:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Agreed Livernoisyard.
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K_solomon
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Username: K_solomon

Post Number: 32
Registered: 07-2006
Posted From: 199.178.223.4
Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 3:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Livernoisyard,

I found three articles. Theres really nothing more to report that hasn't already been covered.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/s tories/M/MI_DETROIT_TEACHERS_M IOL-?SITE=MIDTN&SECTION=HOME&T EMPLATE=DEFAULT

http://www.detroitnews.com/app s/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/200609 07/UPDATE/609070449

http://www.detroitnews.com/app s/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/200609 07/SCHOOLS/609070376/1026
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Southwestmap
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Username: Southwestmap

Post Number: 577
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 70.229.231.102
Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 3:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Livernois: I think that the poor coverage is less symptomatic of a disfunctional school system than it is of disfunctional editorial priorities. I have heard that the two dailies aren't interested in covering most Detroit stories in any depth.
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Docmo
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Username: Docmo

Post Number: 98
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 68.40.171.54
Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 3:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Spelling police: dysfunctional

Zulu, thanks for your informative analysis.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 1371
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Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 3:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Where's the real interest? The daily truancy rate at DPS is super high on a good day. And their teacher truancy rate has also been one of the highest in the nation. Remember when KK said that 30% of city "workers" played hooky on a day-to-day basis?
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Southwestmap
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Username: Southwestmap

Post Number: 578
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Posted From: 70.229.231.102
Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 3:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks. I should have known that.
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1132
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Posted From: 68.42.98.224
Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 4:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Example: "Sunday Free Press."
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Al_t_publican
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Username: Al_t_publican

Post Number: 94
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 72.207.99.250
Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 4:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's the main economic problem of Detroit, too many people depending on the public sector for a living. Detroit needs to revive its small business class as an ecomomic base. I graduated from Denby in 1967. My major was retail co-op where I worked in a retail business in 11th and 12th grades and received school credits for working. Couldn't beat the school hours for a retail co-op curriculum in at 0830 and out by 1140.
Does the Detroit school system still have something like a retail co-op program, or is every one being socially engineered for the public sector?
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Firstandten
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Username: Firstandten

Post Number: 33
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 152.163.100.8
Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 5:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There in lies the problem for a city like Detroit the public sector is the primary employer of city residents (DPS,City of Detroit one and two). So many residents and businesses are dependent on the jobs and contracts that DPS provides that I wonder if the primary mission of educating our young is an afterthought.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 615
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 8:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quote:
Does the Detroit school system still have something like a retail co-op program, or is every one being socially engineered for the public sector?


Yes, DPS has the DECA program. Many scholarships are won by our students in that program. Our DECA coordinator for our bldg retired at the end of last year and it was heartbreaking. She took our kids to the Nationals in Dallas each year (and they won 1st place most of the time). Fortunately for us, her student teacher (who was a long term sub in our bldg) is taking her spot.

The DECA program is wonderful. Gives the kids retail experience and a solid work ethic. It also allows for Co-Op and Co-Op in the bldg in the DECA student store.
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65memories
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Username: 65memories

Post Number: 290
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Posted From: 69.215.76.75
Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 9:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The BPA (Business Professionals of America) program works in tandem with DECA. DECA is more retail oriented , while BPA is more business oriented (secretarial, admin. assts., etc) Both programs have Co-Op where students take classes in morning and work in afternoon. Most high schools offer both opportunities.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 616
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 9:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cooley has both BPA and DECA. Can't say enough great things about both programs!!
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Fnemecek
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Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 1929
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 70.236.147.25
Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 10:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

The little press coverage from the papers seems to illustrate that not having classes at DPS is probably no big deal because not much is expected from their students anyway.



That and the fact that there isn't much actually happening at this point that's different from yesterday or the day before. An editor can only run the same story so many times before he or she has to give space to something else.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 4964
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Posted From: 141.217.174.229
Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 8:27 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pretty soon the judge will decided whether the DPS teachers' strike would come to an end, forcing all teachers back to work. Well Detroitteacher, you may get back to work in that 1850s type classroom, but you won't get any more money. Sometimes some people can't get what they want.
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Zulu_warrior
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Username: Zulu_warrior

Post Number: 3004
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Posted From: 68.251.27.41
Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 12:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nothing like a litte substantiation

Mayor: Let me manage the Schools

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20060908/OPI NION02/609080350/1122
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 1382
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Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 2:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Well Detroitteacher, you may get back to work in that 1850s type classroom, but you won't get any more money. Sometimes some people can't get what they want."


I'd wager that 1850-type kids in 1850-type classrooms with 1850-type teachers would polish off any MEAP test thrown at them, based on their knowledge of the world back then.
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_sj_
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Username: _sj_

Post Number: 1491
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 69.220.230.150
Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 2:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Yeah, we need the cheapest teachers we can get. Fuck the children, we need WalMart Teachers!




Once again, strong union, weak economic and social understanding.

This has nothing to do with pay and benefits. It has to do with an ailing district that has mishandled it funds for decades. This is not the time to be haggling about who did what with what, but to get back in the classroom and start education the kids who DESERVE an education more than teachers DESERVE monetary compensation.
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River_rat
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Username: River_rat

Post Number: 214
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Posted From: 68.166.44.44
Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 5:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Zulu, you missed the biggest loser. The City of Detroit. Once again, this city is being viewed as where the earth would get it's enema because of the inept political leaders, the intransigent unions, the non-functional schools, the lack of concern for the children who are mere pawns for the players.

For God's sake, work without a contract and TEACH.
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Detroit_stylin
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Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 2968
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.202.227.12
Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 5:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:


That and the fact that there isn't much actually happening at this point that's different from yesterday or the day before. An editor can only run the same story so many times before he or she has to give space to something else.




Unless it is a crime like a murder that happened to some poor suburbanite that came to the city, then it may run everyday for the next two three weeks despite any new developments of not.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 617
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 6:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The judge ordered us back to work, the union says we are close to a contract (they have Cobo reserved for Saturday), and teachers are anxious to get back to work. Now, if we return to the class or not is another story (as reported by the news). I think the contract will be settled and we'll vote tomorrow to go back to our kids. Keep your fingers crossed.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 4967
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.174.229
Posted on Saturday, September 09, 2006 - 10:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

BREAKING NEWS FOLKS!!!! The judge had ruled that ALL DPS TEACHERS MUST RETURN TO WORK IMMEDIATELY!!!

What does DPS Superintendent William F.Coleman say:



"I WON YOU FOOLS!!! NOW GET TO WORK, AND DUE YOUR UNECCESARY STRIKE, EVERYONE TEACHER WILL GET SEVERLY REDUCED PAY AND NO CHRISTMAS BONUSES THIS YEAR."
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 621
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Saturday, September 09, 2006 - 10:24 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Day late and a dollar short, Danny. Read my post above. BTW, we don't get Christmas bonuses EVER, so that isn't news :-)
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Rasputin
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Username: Rasputin

Post Number: 3766
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Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Sunday, September 10, 2006 - 9:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

NOBODY is LOSING ..... unless you buy into that "white supremacist" model that equates OUR CHILDREN to DOLLARS. "Bought and Sold" Basically all the Ed Systems of this kountry are doing nothing but creating WAGE SLAVES ..... education = good JOB = ???? (NO THANK YOU) No wonder we graduate "EDUCATED FOOLS from UNEDUCATED SCHOOLS", taught by more EDUCATED FOOLS to be DUMBER than a DOG!!! "See Spot run." "Spot runs fast" "See Spot sit and lick his ass" "Look! Spot pants with glee to see his absentee masters, Dick & Jane. Spot is so happy to see them, he pees on himself as he licks Dick & Jane."

Now, please don't bring up that bullschitt about the 3Rs ..... those are tools - not education, and anyone/thing can be TRAINED to use a TOOL (or be one!!) When's the last time you've heard about students being taught how to LEARN vs. WHAT to LEARN???? eh???

Black-atcha ..... watching Robbers robbing, Pimps pimping and Hoes hoeing!! All about the Benjamins .....

Black-atcha .....

(Message edited by Rasputin on September 10, 2006)
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 4976
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.84.90
Posted on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 8:35 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good one Rasputin. I would agree with you. The America non-FREE Education system is whacky and too apt! Teachers want this and students want that. HAH! Sometimes you can't get anything your way. You have to take something as is and get over it.

DPS Teachers, start cutting the fat, what William Coleman give you, you all have to take it or leave it. Otherwise deal with the consequences.
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Fnemecek
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Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 1948
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 69.219.103.225
Posted on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 11:30 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

I think the contract will be settled and we'll vote tomorrow to go back to our kids. Keep your fingers crossed.



My fingers are crossed, but I'm not optimistic.

My prediction: the strike will still be on-going come October.
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Belleislerunner
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Username: Belleislerunner

Post Number: 272
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 198.204.133.208
Posted on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 11:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Until teachers get rid of the tenure track they enjoy and embrace an ameritocracy structure the schools will continue to fail. Many teachers enjoy 40K salaries for 9 months of work, are done teaching by 3:00 and have virtually no stress. And if one was to think stress from a 10 yr old is worse than a demanding boss, they should go watch the Devil wears Prada. Tenure allows them to lull into complaceny with no accountability. If a teacher's students don't pass tests, she shouldn't get a raises and if it continues, she should be given the boot. That's how every other corporate job works. I found it surprising many of the charter schools in Macomb County (Mt Clemens) had the exact same success as the public suburban school districts. Public school teaching, as it currently is, is nothing more than a union job, where the worker wants more money for an inferior product. No sympathy for teachers on this end.
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Oldredfordette
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Username: Oldredfordette

Post Number: 446
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 68.60.181.41
Posted on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 4:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

God DAMN I wish I taught in the Detroit Public Schools, Belleislerunner! It sounds like a workers paradise. Wowee. Plus the teachers are all women. Fantastic.

New brand of crack you're smoking?
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 625
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 10:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Belleisle, do you really think that teachers don't have demanding bosses (yes, more than one)? We have stress, often because we worry about our kids. You really need to read some of the other threads on schools and teachers. My day does NOT end at 3. We attend class, grade papers, plan lessons. Read all of the threads, my dear uninformed one. The invitation is still open for anyone who wants to ride along with me on a day of excitement in my life. Get plenty of sleep, and be prepared to do some homework (as I must each night) and bring red pens!
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 626
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 10:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Belle, I must also address your make teachers accountable for test scores comment. How can we be completely accountable? Should parents not be held accountable? How about all the issues at home? Kids aren't product, they are living, breathing beings with their own minds and problems. Parents, teachers, and community all need to get in on helping them pass tests (watch Akeelah and the Bee). You want to compare kids to a movie? Try the Wire on HBO. THAT is the reality I deal with each day as I greet my kids. Those problems are what my kids deal with each day. Parents in prison, on drugs, no utilities in the house, hustling drugs because their family does...and you expect them to have stellar test scores? They have more to worry about than test scores. I work with the WHOLE child, not just the school child. They aren't plastic, we can't make them do what we want by manipulating them, they carry too much baggage.
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Thnk2mch
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Username: Thnk2mch

Post Number: 343
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 71.65.11.152
Posted on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 10:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I truly appreciate the efforts of all teachers that are in it for the kids, but I have a question.

Why didn't the teachers Union representatives work out a contract six months - our a year ago -so the teachers and students could be in class now?
Isn't that what dues are paid for, to have "representatives"?
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 627
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 10:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thnk, negotiations have been going on that long. We agreed to a one year contract last year with many concessions. The board broke their promises to us during that contract (they broke the contract). They screwed admin out of a pay increase that the board approved, also. The union presented the board with a proposal and the board didn't act on it in a timely manner. The board presented the union with a proposal. Neither side is willing to budge. Teachers loaned the district money last year (a weeks pay) and now the board is saying they aren't going to repay it. No trust by the teachers to the board now.

We've taken a wage freeze for the last 4 years (no raise or cost of living). I'm making now what I made in 2002. The union proposed a contract to the board on Saturday. The board said ok, give us a few hours to look it over. They came back and said no and reverted back to the proposal the board presented us back in May. They are not negotiating in good faith. If they were, we'd be back in class. We just don't trust them to hold to their word because they already lied and cheated us last year.

It takes two to negotiate and the board isn't doing their job and hasn't for quite some time.

(Message edited by detroitteacher on September 11, 2006)
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Bvos
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Username: Bvos

Post Number: 1968
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 70.228.57.79
Posted on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 10:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As much as I respect the work that teachers do and having worked with the nice and well intentioned folks at the DFT, the DFT ain't the most competent bunch of folks (and many DPS teachers have told me this as well). Things like thinking and planning ahead are not on their radar screen. Nor are they on the radar screen of the Administration. While I'm sure they started talking informally before the contract came to an end, big projects with the DFT and DPS tend to get taken care of at the last minute in marathon sessions as they sweat it out trying to beat the deadline or asking for extension after extension until the "homework" is turned in late for several grade markings down.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 628
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 10:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bvos is correct. It has been that way for as long as I've been with DPS. Both sides are at fault...talks have been going on since last fall. Nothing has been accomplished by either side. Perhaps Jenny's fact finder from MERC can help resolve some issues.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 1396
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Tuesday, September 12, 2006 - 12:18 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Plus the teachers are all women."


Ninety-one percent of elementary teachers are women. But just what does "elementary" entail--K-6 or K-8? But at the lower grades, it's a safe assumption to say that they're predominately all women.
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Mw2gs
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Username: Mw2gs

Post Number: 223
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 69.215.77.47
Posted on Tuesday, September 12, 2006 - 4:56 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

sj.....wasnt there a huge surplus in the DPS budget at one point in time? What happened to all those available funds?
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 4978
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.174.229
Posted on Tuesday, September 12, 2006 - 8:56 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Education War rages on. DPS Teachers are marching with the weapons of picket signs and words. Other DPS Students and parents remain neutral. Bargaining negotiations continue at the Cadillac Place building to find a way to create a new contract deal between the Detroit Board and The Detroit Federation of Teachers. Even though the circuit court judge ruled that All DPS Teachers must return to work, The teachers refuse the order. All classes troughout the Detroit Public Schools are closed indefinately until further notice. This debacle has reached to the Michigan Legislature. Govenor Jennifer Granholm wants to start a case package deal to fulfill the new contract deal. More information later.
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Gravitymachine
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Username: Gravitymachine

Post Number: 1278
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 198.208.159.18
Posted on Tuesday, September 12, 2006 - 9:03 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the freep is reporting that a tenative agreement has been reached

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20060912/NEW S99/60912001
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1140
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 69.136.129.82
Posted on Tuesday, September 12, 2006 - 9:05 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

WDET says the union says there are still a couple details to work out.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 629
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Tuesday, September 12, 2006 - 10:17 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The DFT website says that a tentative agreement has been reached. We should be back at Cobo on Wednesday to vote on whether to accept going back to work on last year's contract while they iron out details. They should tell us what those details are tomorrow.
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Oldredfordette
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Username: Oldredfordette

Post Number: 451
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 68.60.181.41
Posted on Tuesday, September 12, 2006 - 10:24 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fingers crossed for you DTT.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 630
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Tuesday, September 12, 2006 - 11:17 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks, I am anxious to get back to my kids. I have the first day all planned with some exciting new things (even though I wasn't told what I was teaching...this will work with any class). As a teacher, I get as excited about the first day of school as I did when I was a kid. I love it when the little lightbulb goes off above heads and the lesson or strategy I teach "clicks". I think that is my high. Maybe that is why I like the message board forums, I jones for discussion and when school isn't in, I don't get my daily fix. Much of my class is critical thinking, learning new strategies, and dialogue. You'd really be amazed at how much a teen can offer in the way of new ideas or a new persepctive on things. I am merely a guide...who oftentimes has to teach the basics, such as the components of a research paper. I have fun at work (depsite all the BS I have to put up with from the top). This is why I wouldn't want to do anything different with my life.
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Zulu_warrior
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Username: Zulu_warrior

Post Number: 3008
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.251.27.41
Posted on Tuesday, September 12, 2006 - 12:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Zulu News Analysis- Detroit Teachers strike Update

15:37 zulu time


The report of the tenative agreement between DPS administration and the DFT is breaking news at the momemnt across the Detroit media.

The reports that are coming out about this tenative agreement that Mayor Kilpatrick held an all night meeting with Janna Garrison and with Bill Coleman... along with Anthony Adams and Christine Beatty from the Mayor's Staff.

As previously discussed in the earlier analysis, the mayor becomes the hero as his proving that he can handle the schools becomes manifest.

Anthony Adams was the previous Chief Counsel of DPS, thus is very understanding of the union negotiations and the Administrations position, as he was Lamont Satchel's supervisior, who is now DPS Chief Counsel.

The imminent entry of the Governor into the fray with her fact finding efforts would have lead to a show down of epic proportions. The Governor trying to enforce state law and a judges ruling, with an election on the line, and the Mayor being usurped. This could not happen.

Will this begin another run at control of the schools for the mayor? Only time will tell, but he will be the big winner here...

(Message edited by zulu warrior on September 12, 2006)
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 4981
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.173.62
Posted on Tuesday, September 12, 2006 - 12:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So a deal between the DPS and thr DFT has been made, that's step #1. For step #2, the Teachers must vote to approve the new contract. This education war may come to end with a stalemate of a peace treaty.

SOLIDARITY FOR THE TEACHERS' UNION WILL MARCH ON TO VICTORY.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 631
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 152.163.100.8
Posted on Tuesday, September 12, 2006 - 1:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is the tentative as I heard it.
1) Teachers stay status quo on pay this year with 1% next year and 1 1/2 the year after
2) Loss of prep period for elementary teachers
3) 3 yr contract
4) Everyone pays 10% for medical (I pay that now, so no concession there for teachers hired after 1992)

I don't think teachers will vote in favor of this. I'll take the status quo, don't teach elementary and already pay 10% for benefits so I'll be voting on going back...but others will hold out for what they think might be a better deal.

**These tentative agreement points I posted are just what I heard and may not be the actual agreement. Not sure on any other points yet. more news when I know.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 4983
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.173.149
Posted on Tuesday, September 12, 2006 - 4:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My prejection on the this tenative agreement.

47% YES

48% NO

That leaves 4% undecided teachers and that 4% will decided the fate of DPS. The Education war is not over yet and there's a surrender or a peace treaty.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 1402
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Tuesday, September 12, 2006 - 4:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A more important blurb about the DPS strike was the announcement on WJR which came out the same time as the news about a possible strike settlement:

Cornerstone School announced that they just made room for a hundred additional DPS students this schoolyear. Wanna bet that these seats will all be quickly filled regardless of the monkey business that goes on over at DPS?

That means about 3/4 million $ (100 X $7400) less funding at DPS.

(Message edited by LivernoisYard on September 12, 2006)
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1143
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.98.224
Posted on Tuesday, September 12, 2006 - 5:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Paying 10 to 20% for health care is becoming more common right now with teachers, so that is not an unreasonable request. And Livernoisyard, you are correct, those spots in Cornerstone will be instantly filled. Like I have said before, in this whole mess, no one is actually trying to fix the mess of DPS. They will still continue to lose students because of this. The teacher strike is just speeding up that process.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 633
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Tuesday, September 12, 2006 - 6:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When I started in DPS there was a surplus of cash reserves. I have no idea where that money went. I know there was a huge stink about mismanagement of funds a few years back but not much was said about it. We also misplaced some bond money and millage monies. They need to start looking for THAT money and go after those that were responsible for it being "lost". When Adamany left office there was a surplus so look at Burnley and his crew (which include COLEMAN as CFO).
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 1404
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Tuesday, September 12, 2006 - 6:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nonsense, DT, about your perceptions of surpluses at DPS. Besides, the additional burden on the taxpayers (who pay you, BTW) due to the annual increases in health insurance alone could very easily wipe out any surplus, if there were such an animal. The same health insurance fiasco is happening on account of the other government workers in Detroit.

Bureaucrats everywhere spend all their budgets (leaving little, if any, surplus) so as to get the same or more funding the next year. It's always that way if you have business-as-usual bureaucrats.

(Message edited by LivernoisYard on September 12, 2006)
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Zephyrprocess
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Username: Zephyrprocess

Post Number: 17
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 69.241.250.214
Posted on Tuesday, September 12, 2006 - 6:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Danny wrote:
"47% YES
48% NO
That leaves 4% undecided..."

Yup--they don't teach math the way they used to...
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 634
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Tuesday, September 12, 2006 - 11:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Livernois, the budget when Adamany left was published in a newsletter we received. I am sure you could get the budget info through the Freedom of Information Act. Even if there was NO surplus, what about the millage money that disappeared? That was to go for very specific things which never got done. Now the money is GONE. Care to explain THAT?
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 1406
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Tuesday, September 12, 2006 - 11:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anybody accustomed to governmentese should know that "surpluses" are soon DOA or illusionary from the get-go, such as the projected pro-forma "paper" surpluses of the Clinton years. Bureaucracies are not banks and either spend all their funds or remit any "surplus" usually back to the general fund, thereby "saving" money for the taxpayers--all other things being equal. So, don't play these "surplus" games on this forum.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 635
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Wednesday, September 13, 2006 - 12:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You still didn't answer the millage question. I believe it was from the late 90s.

4 million dollars disappeared during a very small time period (not millage funds) and no one can explain where it went. THAT is the surplus I am talking about. It was there at the end of the fiscal year and gone soon after. We don't have to call it a surplus. Whatever you want to call it, no one can account for where it went. I do have to add that it was at the time when leadership was changing hands (from Aadamany to Burnley). They say it's just "lost". How does one lose 4 million??
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 1408
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Wednesday, September 13, 2006 - 12:38 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I wouldn't lose any sleep over $4 million, especially if that's all what's "missing." The shortfall expected this year will probably be some $180 million, not the lowball figure that some in the city expect (or hope) it to be.

The losses resulting from students dropping out of DPS and voting with their feet will surely surpass that figure also. And that's just for this year alone. They won't be back for next year either--or the years after that. Especially if the state legislature lifts the limit on the number of charter schools, which is now probably a near-certainty due to the ill-advised DPS strike.

Heads will roll in a few months due to no money...
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Rasputin
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Username: Rasputin

Post Number: 3771
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 152.163.100.8
Posted on Wednesday, September 13, 2006 - 7:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

George


Education and DUMMIES

Black-atcha ......

(Message edited by Rasputin on September 13, 2006)
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1145
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.98.224
Posted on Wednesday, September 13, 2006 - 9:18 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Livernoisyard is correct in what he says. It is almost certain that charters will be expanded in Detroit. Which by doing this we will be having these same conversations about education in Detroit 10 years from now. We are still not discussing the problems with DPS and why are they failing. There was a great editorial in the Free Press yesterday by a Wayne State education professor talking about that exact topic. Something needs to be done, but by not looking at the problem and making sure they are fixed in new (charter schools) you will have the same problems 10 years from now, not to mention leaving the only guaranteed option (public schools) to fail even worse.
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Oldredfordette
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Username: Oldredfordette

Post Number: 461
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 68.60.181.41
Posted on Wednesday, September 13, 2006 - 9:25 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There might be charter schools in Detroit in ten years, and the story will be "Charter School Teachers Strike for Pay and Benefits" because you can't hire professionals at WalMart wages. It doesn't matter how much republicrites resent poor kids and hate education, it will come around again.
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_sj_
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Username: _sj_

Post Number: 1500
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 69.220.230.150
Posted on Wednesday, September 13, 2006 - 9:56 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No matter how pro/anti union you are. Eventually you have to realize there IS NO MONEY. Maybe it was mis-spent, stolen, etc. But that has nothing to do with this issue. That MONEY IS GONE and no strike or "Wal-Mart" claim is going to bring it back.

Go back to work teachers and then fight those injustices instead of standing on your soap boxes and shouting information that will make no difference.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 636
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 70.227.64.52
Posted on Wednesday, September 13, 2006 - 10:24 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Going back to work...!!! YAY! Thanks for all your support.
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 1782
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 67.36.21.222
Posted on Wednesday, September 13, 2006 - 10:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How many charters does the dps have?
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Oldredfordette
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Username: Oldredfordette

Post Number: 466
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 68.60.181.41
Posted on Wednesday, September 13, 2006 - 2:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Congratulations to you DTT, and the other teachers.

I hope that jerk Steve Conn is having a fit.
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1146
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.98.224
Posted on Wednesday, September 13, 2006 - 2:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oldredfordette, you are so correct, this is why other states have such teacher shortages, because they pay them Wal-Mart wages and you cannot find enough teachers to work for that and pay for all graduate degrees required to be continue to be a certified "highly qualified teacher."
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 637
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Wednesday, September 13, 2006 - 4:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Heather Miller is Steve Conn's wife. She is just as nutty. He pulls this same crap EACH time we have a mass meeting. He seems so miserable working for DPS. He's at the top of the pay scale, not sure what he's crying about. This is the best deal we would have gotten.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 4990
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.174.219
Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 12:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's time for work, education war ends today YAY!!!

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