Discuss Detroit » Archives - Beginning July 2006 » New Orleans to become next Detroit? « Previous Next »
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Bvos
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Username: Bvos

Post Number: 1852
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 134.215.223.211
Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 10:03 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Heard an interesting story on NPR on the way in to work this morning. In New Orleans a few folks are rebuilding their houses, even if they are the only person on the block.

"If you look at New Orleans proper, we'll quite frankly only be able to bring out critical infrastructure -- sewage, water, utilities -- to places with viable density," he tells Steve Inskeep. "It's important that as we go through the rebuilding process, that information be given to homeowners so that they can make the wisest choice possible."

http://www.npr.org/templates/s tory/story.php?storyId=5667058

It appears that New Orleans is ready to tell folks who rebuild their house and become the only person that moves back to the block that they may cut off services and infrastructure to them.

Several people over the years have talked about doing this in Detroit. Now that New Orleans has become Detroit, do you think the City of Detroit will try and do the same thing?
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Baltgar
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Username: Baltgar

Post Number: 19
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 67.38.83.5
Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 10:33 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't really see this happening because the only public infrastructure that the City can eliminate is the water for a particular street. They can turn off the valve for the street. Though by doing this to multiple streets in one neighborhood may affect the water pressure which would limit the ability to fight fires. They can't cut off street lights for safety reasons, particularly for their own officers. Also, they can't cut off the sewers because Detroit is on a combined sewer system and the stormwater has to go somewhere. The only component they could let detroirate is the pavement on the street.

This really bring us to the larger issue of infrastructure maintenance. What most people don't realize is that it costs everyone in the region to maintain this infrastructure. It would be very costly to re-engineer and rebuild the infrastructure to serve only populated or growing areas. Hence the reason why the suburban proposal to get off DWSD water lines has gone nowhere. We need this infrastructure to service all of our communities. We need to stop abandoning our urban cores, because we will all pay for it in the long run.
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Janesback
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Username: Janesback

Post Number: 16
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 69.152.250.195
Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 10:56 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello. I was in N.O recently, I have realatives who live in Metaire, next to Lake Ponchatrain. Sadly, there are so many many problems plauging N.O right now , no one knows where to start. The serious problems obviously started with Katrina, and continues on. N.O lost 250, 000 people, as about 200, 000 are living here in Houston. Next, and sadly, racism is out of control. Remarks from Mayor R. Nagin, and his all chocolate city, former mayor M.Moyrials' remark to "Bring New Orleans BLACK" , to racist comments from the D.A., who is being sued for firing all his white employees, Jefferson parrish people, who don't want Section 8s in their neighborhoods, whites not wanting blacks to move in temoporary trailer parks that would be situated in Slidell, and on and on and on. Insurance companies are now stating they won't insure former customers, FEMA payments being delayed, 5 major corporations moving their headquarters out of downtown N.O and moving them to Metaire. Sadly, who ever heard that program on N.P.R is aware now of how things have gone from bad to worse. Also, and this is the really sad part, divorce, suicide, and depression are climbing to new heights. People are drinking more, and that is surprising, coming from die hard New Orleanians, and their Mardi Gras mentality, they love burbon. Most people interviewed are not rebuilding, and many wont take a chance of rebuilding a house that sits below sea level. What happens when the next Katrina hits. People who have moved wont be coming back to the lower 9th ward, Treme or downtown any time soon. Its sad to see so much destruction. Crime is high, so high that Gov Blanco had to call in the National Guard after they had 7 killings in one day, setting their crime rate for July to 82 murders, and N.O right now had only 150, 000 or so people living there. Its sad, really sad :-(
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Goat
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Username: Goat

Post Number: 8720
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 70.54.69.58
Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 11:15 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Level it and rebuild the city. Starting from scratch would be much easier.

As for racist remarks, your "chocolate city" isn't any better than idiot Nagin and the other black exploiting "leaders" in the community.
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Janesback
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Username: Janesback

Post Number: 18
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 69.152.250.195
Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 11:29 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Goat, excuse me, that wasn't my comment, it was Ray Nagins. I apologize, I should have stated it instead like this
Mayor R.Nagin and his "all chocolate" city....again, I did not state this, these were HIS words, not mine. I didnt put the " chocolate" in my sentence. He was on live T.V when he stated

" and I dont care if they get mad in Uptown, or Mid town, God wants N.O to be black" as well as saying that "N .O is , has and always will be a chocolate" city

This racist comment was stated in March of 2006 by Ray C. Nagin in the presence of many people, black and white, as well as numerous camermen. I again apologize for not citing HIS use of the word chocolate with italysis, " " ..thanks, Jane
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Pkatmsu
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Username: Pkatmsu

Post Number: 10
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 69.14.88.98
Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 11:53 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah. That "chocolate city" comment was all over the news for weeks.
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Morena
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Username: Morena

Post Number: 481
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 216.45.2.138
Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 12:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bvos:

"Several people over the years have talked about doing this in Detroit ..."

Who in Detroit as talked about cutting off utilities and other infrastructure to residents/areas of Detroit?

"Now that N.O has become Detroit ..."

What the hell does that mean?
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Bvos
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Username: Bvos

Post Number: 1855
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 134.215.223.211
Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 2:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The idea of just shutting down parts of the city has been discussed by everyone from Harvard professors to Kwame himself.

It means that Detroit is just New Orleans in slow motion. They're both in the same position now.
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Spacemonkey
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Username: Spacemonkey

Post Number: 79
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 63.102.87.27
Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 2:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No way is New Orleans going to steal Detroit's thunder!

We cannot let that happen.

Sign petitions and do your duty to vote. We must keep Detoilet on top of the scrap heap!
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Janesback
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Username: Janesback

Post Number: 23
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 69.152.227.186
Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 1:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Goat, here is the statement used to show Mayor Ray Nagins willingness to include "vanillas" in his rebuilding plan.
"I don't care what people are saying Uptown or wherever they are. This city will be chocolate at the end of the day," he said. "This city will be a majority African-American city. It's the way God wants it to be.*scratches head*

"How do you make chocolate? You take dark chocolate, you mix it with white milk and it becomes a delicious drink. That's the chocolate I'm talking about."*"Huh?"*

Thank you for your time, Goat. Jane
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Paulmcall
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Username: Paulmcall

Post Number: 4
Registered: 05-2004
Posted From: 68.40.119.216
Posted on Sunday, August 20, 2006 - 11:34 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

New Orleans wil be all black when the final lights are turned off.
Everyone has to live together or no one will be able to. That city has been permanantly down-sized.
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 33
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 69.95.238.254
Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 12:00 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit will never be as bad as New Orleans. New Orleans is stupid, backwards, and rascist. New Orleans is in the south. New Orleans has much faded importance and will never be a big city again. Detroit is in a much better state than New Orleans
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 4850
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.174.229
Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 9:04 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's been one year after Katrina and ruins are still there in the ghettos and neighborhoods of New Orleans. It's like living in Pompeii.
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Cris
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Username: Cris

Post Number: 423
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 71.227.30.129
Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 9:34 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When Ray Nagin originally made that "chocolate city" comment, I thought the media's reaction to it was stupid, or maybe even funny. Why the hell were so many white people offended by that comment? Who cares? In Detroit, we hear that type of comment all the time and it is not considered to be offensive toward white people. It's a statement of pride by blacks, generally aimed at other blacks. It means "this is a majority Black city, and we are proud of our city, and in the end, we will be the ones responsible for bringing it back to its feet."

I certainly don't think it means "let's get together and kill whitey."
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Goat
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Username: Goat

Post Number: 8724
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 70.54.69.58
Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 10:11 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cris, then why not say that? It seems like pandering and innuendo to me; Possibly even "codespeak".

Janesback. Mybad. :-)
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Cris
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Username: Cris

Post Number: 427
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 71.227.30.129
Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 10:37 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What, people aren't allowed to ever speak creatively, with metaphors, etc? Particularly when politicians are giving speeches, you hear metaphorical statements. "It's morning in America." "A thousand points of light." Bla bla bla.

"Chocolate City" is a phrase in a song, I think.
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Goat
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Username: Goat

Post Number: 8727
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 70.54.69.58
Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 10:41 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

But if white people talk metaphorically then it's codespeak.
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Milwaukee
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Username: Milwaukee

Post Number: 38
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 69.95.239.89
Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 10:56 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think it was a stupid thing for Mayor Nagin to say. You can see where he could be scared of New Orleans losing its black population and alot of its culture. I think that he had the right idea in mind but he shouldn't have gone out and said it.
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Janesback
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Username: Janesback

Post Number: 24
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 69.152.239.131
Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 12:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chris, you stated "It's a statement of pride by blacks, generally aimed at other blacks. It means "this is a majority Black city, and we are proud of our city, and in the end, we will be the ones responsible for bringing it back to its feet."


I can guarantee you that after being in N.O 4 weeks ago for a 2 week say, and one who has relatives who live in RiverRidge and Metarie, I can guarantee it was NOT spoken as you suggested, but in a racial way. Mayor Nagin appeared on the C.C.C., coastal causeway bridge with Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, supporting of all black N.O. Tee shirts worn by many council members, as well as former Mayor Morial all stated that "We need to bring N.O BLACK"
I look at it this way, had it been the mayor of Seattle or Salt Lake Utah making comments about keeping their cities "vanilla" and wanting to exclude blacks, the ACLU, NAACP, Jesse and Al would all have stormed that city and had the guy fired. Please, realize one thing that I have living in the,as was posted "slow south". Racism is bad, as well as racism is not only limited to whites. Racism goes both ways, OK.... Nagin was wrong that he wanted only certain people in N.O, and sadly, the middle class tax base to it to heart, and continue to leave N.O for areas such as Slidell and Metarie. Crime is out of control, the Natinal Guard was brought in by Blanco, and the cheif of police is a joke. The D.A was found guilty of firing all whites in criminal court and replacing them with blacks. See, in N.O, blacks can be just as racists as whites, Hispanics, Jewish, Chinese and on and on....thanks for listening..........Jane
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Funkysoulchicken
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Username: Funkysoulchicken

Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 209.204.115.18
Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 11:01 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Related article...
http://www.planning.org/practi cingplanner/default1.htm

New Orleans Devastation Overshadows Detroit's Erosion: by Nicole Hostettler, AICP

Katrina's damage to the city of New Orleans is one of the most widely discussed topics of conversation for planners today. It's as if a clean slate to plan one of the largest cities in the country has been provided. To rebuild or not to rebuild is the question that has been intensely debated. However, the city of Detroit has been in a state of disarray for decades, with little discussion or urgency of resolve from federal policy makers. In contrast with the overnight destruction and media attention on Katrina, Detroit has been eroding gradually with little national notice. This city is one of the most depressed cities in the world, left behind from the urban renaissance that many U.S. cities are experiencing despite trying similar redevelopment efforts and plans.

Planners too often consider nothing but the planning model of expansion and growth to revitalize downtowns. Detroit is unique and presents different variables to this growth model. The comprehensive low density, intensity of neglect, and mass agglomeration of vacant space should be the basis for redevelopment. Planners should consider planning for the undevelopment of the city and facilitate the naturalization of this metropolis. To understand why Detroit is different, certain trends must be understood.

Urban decline is a problem that many U.S. cities have experienced over the past decades; however, it seems to be magnified in Detroit. The stark disparity between density and vacancy, rich and poor, black and white, has created a unique situation of rapid and severe urban blight. Such polarization has lead to the formation of urban ruins, which call for creative and different approaches.

Detroit was a primary receiver of 1949 Federal Housing Act funds, which, two decades later, left hundreds of acres devastated and vacant. Like many other cities, the administration of the time had hoped to draw private development to the area. The confluence of federal slum clearance, highway construction, the racist lending practices of VA/FHA loan programs in the 1950s and 1960s, and race riots led to a major demographic shift from the city to suburb, taking many resources with it. The legacy of racial rioting has left Detroit one of the most segregated cities in the country.1 Today, 82 percent of the city's population is black and 12 percent is white. Contrary demographics are found in the surrounding suburbs: 6 percent black and 88 percent white.2 The racial intolerance perpetuated in Detroit contributed to the vacant land use patterns found today throughout the city, as well as the drastic draining of financial assets with the "white flight" of the 1960s. This racial polarization hinders traditional downtown-oriented urban revitalization methods used in the renaissance of other American cities. Instead, the racial barriers that strongly correlate with socioeconomic status will likely intensify.

Detroit has carried on a long, torrid relationship with the working class and the auto industry. The city was once a thriving industrial, cultural, and financial center for the region. With the national shift from a manufacturing to service economy, the city suffered. As the epicenter of the early automotive industry, the land use patterns of the Motor City reflect the dictates of the automobile.

The city encompasses more than 139 square miles. Detroit contains more single-family units than most other cities — 70 percent of the urban housing stock — in contrast with a national average of 54 percent. Therefore, there are fewer large multiple-family residential buildings (10+ units) — 14 percent compared with the urban average of 23 percent.3 The auto industry was directly responsible for the dismantling of a successful streetcar transit system and the implementation of an inefficient bus system.4 Detroit is a city with overwhelming obstacles compared with other cities experiencing renaissance through new urbanism and transit-oriented developments (TODs).

TODs generally are orchestrated with the common revitalization strategy of sports and entertainment superplexes, which are often geared toward tourists. Lacking the density and transit system, Detroit has had limited success applying the entertainment and stadium urban revitalization approach. The city's elevated people mover circles several vacant downtown buildings in a one-way direction, while the regional bus system serves a disproportionately large poor population across a vast area of deconcentrated neighborhoods.

Needless to say, Detroit is not on Richard Florida's list of attractive cities for the "Creative Class."5 The population of the region is aging and not attracting the "creative professionals" who drive the urban renaissance in cities as such as New York, San Francisco, or Austin. This population is known as the Baby Boom Echo, the 18- to 25-year-old children of Baby Boomers who make up almost a third of the population. This is shown with a 20 percent increase of new households under the age of 25, while the Detroit area's expansion was a mere 2.4 percent increase in the Detroit area.6 This reflects the aging of the Detroit area population, losing its younger population to other national "hot spots."

Urban critic Roberta Gratz summarizes: "The tragedy is that Detroit actually has more downtown left to renew than most cities. Detroit just does not know what to do with this traditional fabric. Instead, piece by piece it demolishes itself and looks to the big Project Plans — stadiums and gambling — to resuscitate its urban core."7 A distinctly unique environment has emerged in the city center of Detroit. Completing the cycle of development, the land has come full circle from greenfield, to structures, to brownfield, and now back to greenfield.

Sir Peter Hall suggests that Detroit may be "the first major industrial city in history to revert to farmland."8 The "greening of Detroit" has opened up a number of options for urban revitalization, and these options should be looked at as opportunities. This idea is not new. Roger Starr called it "urban triage theory."9 Witold Rybczynski refer11red to it as "downsizing cities,"10 Robin Boyle presented it as "planned shrinkage," Frank Popper touched on the idea with his book, Buffalo Commons,12 and urban photo essayist Camilo José Vergara describes this idea as an "American Acropolis."13

In March 1993, a step toward moving this plan into mainstream political thinking was taken by Detroit ombudsman Marie Farrell-Donaldson. The motivation was to save money in the distressed city budget by downsizing maintenance and infrastructure services to mainly vacant neighborhoods. Donaldson suggested "razing whatever structures are still standing, then fencing off these zones and letting them go back to nature."14 Dubiously termed "mothballing" the neighborhood, this plan was intended to serve remaining residents better.

The plan was deemed radical and quickly dismissed by city officials. Many prominent community members and city officials said it was "giving up on the city."15 However, 60 percent of Detroiters surveyed in a Detroit Free Press poll viewed the idea favorably. They considered it a solution to the increasing vegetation, isolation, and poor city services.16

Robin Boyle, a professor of Urban, Labor, and Metropolitan Affairs at Wayne State University in Detroit, advocates "downsizing a city." Boyle says Donaldson's idea may appear radical, but that it makes sense, and the present willingness to consider new planning models, like new urbanism, may mean this is the ideal time for such a plan. However, Boyle acknowledges that the plan's issues of relocation and implementation are extremely difficult.

Urban planners make the unfortunate mistake of relying on a planning model of expansion and growth to bring back U.S. cities. Witold Rybczynski and Peter Linneman believe planners can "save our shrinking cities," clearly stating that, "the industrial cities that grew rapidly during the first half of the twentieth century (and shrank almost as rapidly during the second half) will never recover their primacy."17

They describe the process of city population loss. First, the cost of maintaining expansive infrastructure for the previous population remains, while the supporting tax base leaves. There is also a reduction in population density, which leads to a perception of downfall. This leads to a decrease in the quality of an urban lifestyle.18 Creative solutions require an adjustment in the general mindset towards urban revitalization and the traditional goals of planners. Rybczynski and Linneman suggest using the land as urban parks, suburban-style single-family home development, or de-annexing land to suburban municipalities. These solutions would create a smaller and more viable urban feel, while generating much-needed funds, and produce civic pride and demand for urban land.19

This general method of urban revitalization should be considered as a real and potential option when no other viable alternative is available for cities like Detroit.

NOTES

1. Darden, Joe T., Richard Child Hill, June Thomas, and Richard Thomas, eds. Detroit: Race and Uneven Development. Philadelphia: Temple University Press, 1987.

2. U.S. Census Bureau, Census 2000 Summary File 1, Table P8.

3. U.S. Census Bureau, Census 2000 Summary File 3, Tables H1, H24, H30, H34, H47, and H50.

4. Doyle, Jack. Taken for a Ride. New York: Four Walls Eight Windows, 2000.

5. Florida, Richard L. Cities and the Creative Class. Working paper. City & Community 2:1, March 2003. American Sociological Association, Washington D.C. The author states, "These older, corporate-dominated communities such as ... Detroit ... have average social capital, higher-than-average political involvement, low levels of div ersity, and low levels of innovation and high-tech industry. They score high on my Working Class Index."

6. U.S. Census Bureau, Census 2000 Summary File 3, Tables H1, H24, H30, H34, H47, and H50.

7. Gratz, Roberta, and Norman Mintz. Cities Back from the Edge. New York: Preservation Press, 1998, p. 80.

8. Hall, Peter. Cities of Tomorrow. Oxford: Blackwell Publishers, 1996.

9. Starr, Roger. The Living End: The City and Its Critics. New York: Coward-McCann, 1966.

10. Rybczynski, Witold, and Peter D. Linneman. " How to Save Our Shrinking Cities." Wharton Real Estate Review, (Fall 1997), Volume 1, Number 2.

11. Boyle, Robin. Imagining the Impossible: Planning for Central City Decline. Paper delivered at Association Collegiate Schools of Planning Annual Conference. Atlanta, Georgia. November 1-4, 2000.

12. Popper, Frank J., and Deborah Epstein. " The Great Plains: From Dust to Dust." Planning December 1987.

13. Vergara, Camilo José. The New American Ghetto. New Brunswick: Rutgers University Press, 1999). The author also states, "I propose that as a tonic for our imaginations, as a call for renewal, as a place within our national memory, a dozen city blocks of pre-Depression skyscrapers should be left standing as ruins. "

14. Hartigan, Jr., John." Green Ghettos and the White Underclass." Social Research 64, (Summer 1997): 343.

15. Boyle, Robin. Imagining the Impossible: Planning for Central City Decline. Paper delivered at Association Collegiate Schools of Planning Annual Conference. Atlanta November 1-4, 2000.

16. Hartigan, op. cit.

17. Rybczynski and Linneman, op. cit.

18. Ibid.

19. Ibid
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Janesback
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Username: Janesback

Post Number: 26
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 69.152.226.28
Posted on Thursday, August 24, 2006 - 7:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I sometimes read posts in the N.O forum, and really was taken back on this letter. It states exactly what is happening in N.O, yet its not too public, I assume the media refrains from televising its citys' problem. Thought you would like to read it. I think some cities will only continue to crumble like N.O unless some one can come up with a plan. Sadly, Nagins not the man for that... Thanks, Jane.

Posted from a long time resident of the Big Easy


Not going to get too deeply into it but thought this would be a good place to find out who knows of a good moving company near the French Quarter of New Orleans and would be so kind to refer them. I am a native of NOLA that's had enough and leaving. My Entergy electric bill increase is the straw that is breaking this camel's back. This dedicated and hardworking white-collar hospitality/tourism promoter is heading for greener pastures where utilities and housing are affordable and I can stop worrying about getting mugged or attempted car jacked again (happened a month ago). I came back, cleaned up my rental house, attended neighborhood meetings and everything we've done is instantly destroyed by the thugs. Im tired and weary of being shuttered in and locked behind wrought-iron bars while the thugs roam free without a care booming their car stereos all night up and down my street where i can't sleep in addition to the hot uninsulated house the renovator/landlord neglected to insulate to save him money while i pay out the azz to keep the temprature at an almost comfortable level. I love antiques, but am tired of living and trying to survive in one. This city is historical and that is 99.9% of it's charm, but is also in allot of ways it's downfall as far as the archaic and indolent mindset of the masses waiting for a handout while those of us rolled up our sleeves and are only working ourselves to death. Im not blaming anyone, just saying it is no longer something im willing to put myself through any more. Good Luck to those who live in nicer squares on the "checker board". Take note newcomers...LOCATION in this city is key to your survival and stress levels. A good deal on housing may mean it is in a high crime area. The bars are on the doors for a reason. If someone knows a reputable, bonded and insured moving company with strong honest guys that won't damage your belongings i would be very greatful. Don't get me wrong, i still love NOLA and will be close enough to visit regularly, just i have come to realize that life is short and i don't need the drama or stress. I honestly feel if we had a police dept that really did a better job of controlling these thugs and crime, and housing, building and school boards that had stricter ordinances that cared about regulating things that strongly impact citizen's overall "quality of life". I know how harsh and snippy folks can be on these forums, so i won't be bothered by the follow-ups im sure this post will receive. Don't worry...i won't let the door hit me on the azz on my way out, because in my mind, im already gone! Believe me, after what i go through on a daily basis tryig to live in a decent peaceful neighborhood that has been taken over by drug selling thug criminals in the past year...words won't even begin to phase me. I wanted to stay but have been looking for another safer place to live but cannot find anything affordable. We are married college graduates with college loans and a car note, just can't make it in NOLA and pay rent upwards of $1,500, expecially when our employers can't afford to give us a raise because business is slow and utilities are higher...its a viscious cycle we can't afford to be in anymore. The middle-class always gets it in the azz and even if we qualified for any government assistance, we wouldnt take advantage of it. We just needed all this price gouging to stop! Again, good luck to everyone and stay safe and vigilant, and lookout for your good neighbors and report and stand up to the bad ones. i hope you do a better job at hanging in there.
Peace & LoveMishaG.
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Livedog2
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Username: Livedog2

Post Number: 1021
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 24.223.133.177
Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 9:53 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Look at who runs both of these cities.

I rest my case!

Livedog2
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Janesback
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Username: Janesback

Post Number: 27
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 69.153.1.83
Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 10:28 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Livedog, sadly there was just a piece on CNN about how many of the evacuees that are living in the city are now rethinking their decisions. The schools are the "worst " in the country, and the street thugs continue to leave Orleans parrish from their damaged housing projects for Jefferson Parrish. I know this is a Detroit forum, but some one started this posting and its similiarities to New Orleans. I have so many relatives in Jefferson Parrish, and south of the city towards Raceland. I am truly afraid that N.O may not rise for the ashes ( ruins). I have partied in that city, love the French Quatah (Quarter), but I don't see it getting any better. The number one complaint is about Nagins incompetence, and the fact that so much of N.O is not being repaired. Its this, sit back and wait mentality that exists. August 29th will be the one year anniversary, and sadly not too much has changed in the last year. But then again, they had big problems even before Katrian hit. I wish them all the best.......Thanks, Jane
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Janesback
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Username: Janesback

Post Number: 28
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 69.153.1.83
Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 10:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This was at CBS news, not CNN. I apologize.If you look on this page, there is a vidoe of Mayor Nagins latest offensive comment about 9-11 and the World Trade Center site. Its pretty bad that he has to go after New York City and attempt to belittle that city after its own tragedy 5 years ago. Again, this is why that city is failing. People are still blaming others, pointing fingers and waiting for Government to do their job. Thanks for listening.......Jane

http://www.cbsnews.com/section s/katrina/main500487.shtml
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Livedog2
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Username: Livedog2

Post Number: 1023
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 24.223.133.177
Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 10:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Unfortunately, Jane, People elected Ray Nagin just like they elected Kwame Kilpatrick so these two men only represent the thinking of the people behind them. Racism runs rampant on both sides; it's nothing more than a form of tribalism on both sides of the racial divide. It's about my tribe is better than your tribe! Even more unfortunately is the fact that we are creating in our victory in the Civil War what the South tried to do when they seceded from the Union. It is becoming more and more separate and polarized as time goes on. Think about that and take it to its logical ends and you will see the vision of the future because these problems or so profound and deep seated that I can't see a way out without the figurative and literal death of ourselves.

Livedog2
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Janesback
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Username: Janesback

Post Number: 29
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 69.153.1.83
Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 11:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Livedog, if you watch the vidoe with Byron Edwards as he interviews Nagin in the lower 9th ward, he refers to Ground Zero as a "hole in the ground". Nagin is incompetent, he was before the hurricane, and hes worse now. Middle class whites and middle class blacks are now beginning to move from N.O. There are areas that werent hit bad in N.O, such as mid town, the garden district, that only had minor wind damage. Even the French Quarter suffered on minor damage. The issue is the infrastructure of the city and its services. The trash pick up is a joke, no water pressure in many of the older neighborhoods where the working class and upper class live. They are tired, stressed out, fed up with excuses, doing without alot of things we take for granted. The thugs contniue to come back to the city. I think July alone, they had 80 murders prompting Gov. Blanco to send in the Natl Guard. To the day I die, I was shocked that Nagin was reelected. Race played in that election. People living in Houston were bussed back to N.O to vote by a group called ACRON. People who had no desire to return still came to N.O and voted for Nagin. Now the city continues to rot because of an incompetent mayor, a racist D.A who was just found guilty of firing ALL the whites in his department, city councilmen had "donated" trucks and vans found in their garages, that should have been used by the N.O police dept. It just goes on and on.
If your leadership is incomptent, then you wont suceed. Plain and simple. Thanks for listening and keep your fingers crossed that this latest hurricane near Cuba doesnt make it up to the Gulf Coast area. Trust me when I say this, they arent ready for another one. The levees arent repaired, and Nagin still hasnt come up with a plan . :-( Tke care, Jane.
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Paulmcall
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Username: Paulmcall

Post Number: 18
Registered: 05-2004
Posted From: 68.40.119.216
Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 7:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another hurricane would finish that city once and for all. Nagin is a BS master but folks are wising up with the lack of results.
It's terrible that the federal funds haven't come through but they have some responsibility to fill out the forms and provide some sort of leadership.
No one wants to stay in a city with crummy schools, high crime and no jobs.
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Deel
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Username: Deel

Post Number: 2
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 60.230.162.159
Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 6:20 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow i was just thinking this the other day. I'm from Sydney Australia but travelled to Detroit and fell in love with the place.

Hate to say it but sad to see that N.O is heading down the same path.

Detroit has a distinct beauty about it, but the beauty of N.O was a poor perception based on legends and gaudy festivals.
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Janesback
Member
Username: Janesback

Post Number: 33
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 69.153.30.164
Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 12:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Leadership plays a number one factor in rebuilding as well as leading. Nagin , who will be on 60 Minutes Sunday nite, will be interviewed about the slow progress of rebuilding the 9th ward, and Treme Parrish. He will also be held accountable for his statement about 9/11 , and why it took them 5 years to fill a "hole" . Mississippi on the other hand who has a governor who is responsive has cleared the majority of debris, submitted his plan to Congress, and is receiving funds for rebuilding. Nagin, and Blanco have on the other hand enjoyed fingerpointing and playing the blame game and the city has had literally no progress. Its so bad, suburbanite housewives are now driving in from the suburbs, and load trash for the citizens of N.O, as well as many church groups, and youth groups have volunteered as well. Seems these people are NOT going to wait for government to do their clean up, they are doing it on their own. Sad part, and this is a fact, there are more "volunteers" cleaining up and rebuilding than there are citizens of N. O . Its a joke, and it only gets sadder daily..... Thanks for listening, Jane
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East_detroit
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Username: East_detroit

Post Number: 705
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 69.212.169.194
Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 12:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nagin got himself reelected. End of story.
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Janesback
Member
Username: Janesback

Post Number: 35
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 69.153.30.164
Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 12:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yes, he did, but it was so "convenient" that he had votes come in all the way from Houston. Seems since he lost so much of his voter base from Orleans Parrish, he recruited his former supporters all the way to Atlanta, Mobile, Baton Rouge , Houston and San Antonio. His running mate, Landreiu (sp) protested stating it was unethical to allow people who had been residing in other cities to return to vote. These former supporters now reside in other cities, yet the project ACCRON got busses and provided transportaion for them to return to N.O to vote on the basis of " race" Jesse Jackson who was so outspoken and insisted, REGARDLESS OF THE OUTCOME, he would have a full investigation into the turn out of the election, conventintly, forgot to forgoe his promise he had made pre election in May of 06. Noting Nagin won, Jesse was satisfied and thought no investigation was necessary. Sadly, his opponent was not much better than Nagin, but was thought to handle the crisis better than Nagin. Race played into that election, plain and simple. Bill boards were erected from Houston to Mobile asking the "blacks" to support Nagin in the "LETS BRING NEW ORLEANS BLACK' campaign as well as keeping N.O a chocolate city.........so now the city rots, and people continue to fingerpoint. Thanks, Jane
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Ray
Member
Username: Ray

Post Number: 771
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 68.41.164.236
Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 1:15 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That post above with the urban planning article is well worth reading.
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Rhymeswithrawk
Member
Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 12
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 69.246.45.147
Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 3:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, The New York Times, apparently, says NoLa will soon become Detroit. I interned there a few years ago, so I e-mailed my old boss and lashed into him through her. Douche. Sure, the city has it's problems, but New Orleans now is way worse than Detroit is. My guess is the reporter hasn't been to Detroit lately - if ever.

"At the other extreme are the gloomy predictions of the pessimists. New Orleans will be Detroit, they say, a sickly urban wasteland abandoned by the middle class. A moldering core will be surrounded by miles of vacant houses, with wide-open neighborhoods roamed by drug dealers and other criminals. The new New Orleans will be merely a grim amplification of its present unpromising self, the pessimists say."

Full text:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08 /27/us/nationalspecial/27orlea ns.html?_r=1&oref=login

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