 
Dsmith
Member
Username: Dsmith
Post Number: 106
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 68.41.202.23
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 1:59 am: |    |
Michigan teacher salaries average 2nd in nation
July 5, 2003
ASSOCIATED PRESS
A new study by the American Federation of Teachers shows Michigan teachers have higher salaries than those in every other state but one -- California.
The average teacher in Michigan earns $52,497 a year, more than $8,000 above the national average of $44,367, the survey shows.
"Certainly, there is good news in this," said Janna Garrison, the president of the Detroit Federation of Teachers. "Hopefully, this will help to retain our teachers."
But, Garrison said, the cost of living in Michigan also can be high compared to other states -- especially those in the South -- offsetting the larger paycheck.
The average teacher salary statewide was up 2.3 percent from the year before, according to the survey. Nationwide, the increase in the average salary was 2.7 percent.
New teachers in Michigan earned an average starting salary of $32,649, also up 2.3 percent from the previous year and eighth-highest in the country. Nationally, beginning teachers got $30,719, up 3.2 percent.
The figures were for the 2001-02 school year, the most recent available.
The better salaries for first-time teachers and a slow job market in fields outside teaching helped shrink a national teacher shortage, the survey reported.
But overall, state financial woes have slowed pay raises in education.
"We can't afford to ignore and lose experienced teachers, whose salaries are not showing much improvement," AFT President Sandra Feldman said in a prepared statement.
Significant teacher shortages remain in such fields as math, physics, biology and Spanish, the survey said.
California had the highest average teacher salary at $54,348. Others at the top were: Connecticut at $52,376, Rhode Island at $51,619 and New York at $51,020.
South Dakota had the lowest average salary among states at $31,383.
Puerto Rico came in at $25,430.
The AFT said teacher salaries would be lower than those of white-collar peers -- such as accountants and engineers -- even if teachers worked a 12-month year. Factoring in an additional 35 days, the average teacher salary would be $52,541, the survey said.
The union represents more than 1.2 million teachers and school workers, university faculty, nurses, health care workers and government employees. |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 549
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 152.163.100.8
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 7:43 am: | |
Ltor: I was at the school board meeting when it was approved that the Principals got their raises. That was the info I am going on. Now, they may never have actually seen the money, which is typical for DPS. I do know (well at least MY Principal said) that they received a lump sum payment as part of that 10 percent.
I received the same letter about my benefits (except mine went a step further and it detailed that I would be paying more for my health insurance from my check).
Please don't call me a liar, as I am only going on information I was furnished from the board meeting (and if they approved it, then they aren't as broke as they claim). ASKING me about it and where I got my info might be a better alternative than shouting names. |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 551
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 8:26 am: | |
Another issue on the contract is violent students (against teachers) being transferred to another shool. The district doesn't want to do that. WHY NOT? Once a kid assaults a teacher, he/she should automatically be EXPELLED (unless the teacher provokes it)!! Why is assaulting a teacher acceptable behavior that doesn't even warrant a transfer to another school, at the very least? Everyone is crying equality with the subrurbs in terms of education, so why not equality with the burbs in expectations of the students? If an assault happened in the burbs, that kid would be expelled for a minimum of 180 days!! It's really more than money...it really is (at least for me and teachers like me).
I was called a "cracker racist bitch" and told, "you better watch your back today (while pointing his finger gun at me and pulling the trigger)" by a student who rarely showed up to my class (and, in turn, was failing). I had to make a GIANT stink to get that student removed from my class. My Principal finally saw my view of the situation (the kid was failing...he did NO work at all the entire semester and showed up for class about once a week and that is why he said what he did, somehow it was MY fault) and transferred him to another class (which he also failed). Why should I have to go through all of that and NOT have the kid transferred out of my class. Had I not made a HUGE issue of it, he would have been left in my class (I threatened to quit if he remained in my class).
Granted, incidents like this are very rare between my students and myself. They are more prevalent with other teachers. Don't we have a right to demand that child be removed from our class??
**Sidenote...his mother was called into the school and offered no type of punishment or admonishment to her son for his behavior. She laughed about it and called it "boys being boys". She even had the BALLS (yes, balls) to ask if I would give her son make-up work for the days he was absent in my class so that he would not fall behind. There was no viable reason for his absences. The Principal told her no, make up work would not be an option. |
Boss_hogg
Member
Username: Boss_hogg
Post Number: 31
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 66.178.225.98
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 10:36 am: | |
Apologies if as a 2 day lurker on this thread that I offend anyone who's been actively participating. but...
The bottom line here is that the system is broken. Instead of trying to identify the singular cause, all parties probably need to be willing to think waaaay differently about educating kids. It doesn't work the way it is.
1. There isn't enough money for the current contract negotiations
2. There isn't a filter for ineffective administrators or teachers
3. Kids are not performing regardless of how they are measured
4. Violence should not be dealt with or tolerated by the schools. The police dept takes up 40% of the city budget - are they really standing by the teachers when they aren't held responsible for protection of the teachers and the other kids?
5. Is there a goal for the schools? Is the duty of a school system just to bide time or is it to educate and equip someone with capable life skills and tools? |
Ltorivia485
Member
Username: Ltorivia485
Post Number: 2772
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 68.73.196.174
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 1:43 pm: | |
Again, Detroiteacher, assistant principals and principals did not get a pay raise. If they got a pay raise, I would have known and my mother and her colleagues would not complain bitterly about Coleman and the board. When you attend the board meetings, they do not always speak the truth. They are not even in a union for goodness sake! |
Ltorivia485
Member
Username: Ltorivia485
Post Number: 2773
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 68.73.196.174
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 1:46 pm: | |
Detroitteacher, my mom has been paying more on health care co-payments out of her paycheck for over a year now. That is not news to me. |
Ltorivia485
Member
Username: Ltorivia485
Post Number: 2774
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 68.73.196.174
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 1:54 pm: | |
Detroitteacher, my mother was given estimately $104,000 for the 2006-2007 school year. What Coleman does not tell the news media OR Janna Garrison is that they take away TEN PERCENT. In other words, my mother will not make that kind of money. She is losing out on $10,400 (!!!). How is this a pay raise!?!
And this has been going for the last FIVE YEARS NOW. My mother never got her true salary. But I do have to say this: Coleman and the board are ludicrous to think teachers will give up 20 percent of their salary. They are out of their minds! |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 4914
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.174.229
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 1:58 pm: | |
Detroitteacher, You quoted that, "I was called a "cracker racist bitch" and told, "you better watch your back today (while pointing his finger gun at me and pulling the trigger)" by a student who rarely showed up to my class (and, in turn, was failing). I had to make a GIANT stink to get that student removed from my class. My Principal finally saw my view of the situation (the kid was failing...he did NO work at all the entire semester and showed up for class about once a week and that is why he said what he did, somehow it was MY fault) and transferred him to another class (which he also failed). Why should I have to go through all of that and NOT have the kid transferred out of my class. Had I not made a HUGE issue of it, he would have been left in my class (I threatened to quit if he remained in my class).
Granted, incidents like this are very rare between my students and myself. They are more prevalent with other teachers. Don't we have a right to demand that child be removed from our class?? "
I say,
When this teacher/student debacle happens in real life. Hollywood would put on T.V., movies, and music videos. Welcome to times of the "dangerous minds." |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 4915
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.174.229
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 2:09 pm: | |
Morena, you were right about a couple of things,
Coleman = Joke
Garrison = Joke
Granholm = Joke
Detroit Delegation = Joke
Kilpatrick = Joke
Bully-Cummings = Joke
These Michigan leaders are all Jokes!! They don't care about you, me, us or them. They only care what's good for society. That's democracy, where GREED AND CORRUPTION IS THE LAW. WHERE HUMAN RIGHTS ARE ABUSED. |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 552
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 2:43 pm: | |
Lt, your mom is making about 50 grand more a year than I am...with her paycut. I don't feel sorry for admin. |
Firstandten
Member
Username: Firstandten
Post Number: 17
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 2:56 pm: | |
Lets not be so hard on folks in admin. Remember those folks did make an investment in the time it took to get advanced degrees and the resulting money it took to make that happen. Just like you they want a return on their investment. I know it seems unfair but in this free market ecomony their salaries reflect what the market will bear.
So that $100,000 salary that the director of IT or HR or Purchasing of a school district gets is simply a reflection of what that person could get out on the open market. |
Oldredfordette
Member
Username: Oldredfordette
Post Number: 368
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 68.60.181.41
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 2:59 pm: | |
That's right! The free market will take care of all of us! Hooray! |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 4918
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.174.229
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 3:13 pm: | |
HAH!!! The free market does not babysit us. It's main purpose is to create competition within all corporate markets, make a profit at any means necessary and serve what's good for society. |
Oldredfordette
Member
Username: Oldredfordette
Post Number: 370
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 68.60.181.41
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 3:15 pm: | |
Danny, pay attention. |
Firstandten
Member
Username: Firstandten
Post Number: 19
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 3:16 pm: | |
Actually no, the free market is not designed to take care of all people. If you want everybody taken care of then a socialist system is the way to go, but thats a totally different topic. My point is this. As a teacher you are free to go to another higher paying school district, make the financial and time committment to get advanced degrees to go into admin or start your own charter school if you want to teach. Thats better than being part of the DFT strike dance the teachers go thru every couple of years or so. An for what.. to get a few percentage points tacked on to your salary that inflation eats away at. If you want to teach for DPS thats fine but don't ever expect getting a pay raise will ever be easy, if you get one at all. |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 4919
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.174.229
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 3:32 pm: | |
Detroitteacher, you tell Ltor!!!
Everyone both DPS teachers and admistration are getting a cut no matter what until those clowns in the bargaining table inside the Fisher building agrees so something. It takes money and power to fuel the earnings of Captialism. Everyone starts ROCK BOTTOM before you get RICH.
When all of the DPS teachers continue to strike for solidarity. It time to cut the FAT of your wants and depend on what you need.
And here's my list of needs in the household and family.
1. FOOD
2. CLOTHES
3. UTILITIES, LIGHTS, GAS, WATER, PHONE AND ALL INSURANCES
4. HOUSEHOLD ITEMS
Now for the stuff you need to cut down.
1. CABLE T.V.
2. INTERNET
3. FANCY CONTRACT CELL PHONES
4. SATELLITE RADIO
5. LONG VACATIONS
6. REDUCE COMMUNTING BY CAR AND TAKE A BUS
7. CREDIT CARDS AND USE DEBIT CARDS INSTEAD
8. HOLIDAY SHOPPING AND TELL YOU CHIDREN THAT YOU MAY GET AT LEAST 2 GIFTS UNDER THE TREE THIS CHRISTMAS. OR BIRTHDAY.
Do all these things and then
your money start piling back up again. And don't forget to invest for Social Security will disapear forever after 2035. |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 553
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 3:41 pm: | |
I invested time and much money into advanced degrees (3 of them, one in admin). I have as much education as most administrators in DPS. I choose to stay in the classroom, where I am needed most. I'm not saying that admin aren't worth what they are paid. I am just saying that making 50 grand a year more than I do, I don't feel sorry for them. MOST admin don't pay out of pocket for school expenses as teachers do.
I realize that it is a free country and I can teach anywhere. I CHOOSE to stay in Detroit because I feel that is where they need good teachers more than other districts. Younger/newly graduated teachers bypass Detroit for the stability of other districts. I didn't, I did my student teaching there, by choice, and chose to work there. Didn't even apply anywhere else. I believe in the kids.
I've said long ago, I don't agree with a strike (oops, sorry, "work stoppage"). On the other hand, I won't cross a picket line. On the other hand, I can't continue feeding my kid, paying DTE and the mortgage in addition to buying supplies and books for kids because my employer/their parents won't/can't. I've said it a billion times, I'd be happy with a wage freeze but can't afford to take a paycut (when dowtown is so top heavy with admin, most of whom can't justify the work they do with the amount of money they earn).
I also want to be safe when I go to work (a basic human right), I want my students to be safe at school, and I want basic teaching tools such as a copy machine (that is in the bargaining proposal by DFT, btw). The district took a week's pay from us last year and now want us to give more? People don't loan people more money (or give it away) when they are still owed money from the last time the other party borrowed it. Just not good economic sense.
What happened to the money the district took from teachers last year? That was supposed to balance things out. Obviously, someone is living/spending beyond their means and it isn't the teachers and admin. who are in the schools.
My question is...why can't Coleman open the books as requested by the DFT? Maybe then we won't feel as if he is hiding something or trying to screw us.
An easy solution for me (and other DPS teachers) would be to use my advanced degrees to go elsewhere but if I (and other teachers) did, then everyone here would be saying that I/we deserted DPS and its children for selfish reasons. Damned if I/we do, damned if I/we don't. |
Firstandten
Member
Username: Firstandten
Post Number: 20
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 4:18 pm: | |
DT- I have no arguments with any of your points. The system you work for is dyfunctional to its core. If you and other good teachers left to go to other districts that along with students leaving to go other districts would lead to... reform. DPS would then in order to remain a viable district would have to address every concern on your last post. Nothing has worked in the past and theres nothing to lead me to feel that something will work in the forseeable future. That would be the free market at work and that's something the teachers unions nationwide fight very hard against and as a result taxpayers are not always on the same page with the teachers when strikes like this happens. |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 555
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 4:28 pm: | |
If the decent teachers leave, DPS is left with the crappy teachers. Not all kids can leave DPS. Who suffers then? The kids. That is why I stay where I am. |
Bob
Member
Username: Bob
Post Number: 1087
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 4:41 pm: | |
I love the people who argue that charter schools are the answer. Too bad their test scores are for the most part worse than DPS, so is that really a solution. School vouchers, are they really the answer? Again people can apply to a private school, but if they don't want you in their school, they can reject you. So instead of fixing the public schools, you make them even more of a dumping ground than they already are. Yes, Michigan teachers are better paid than most states, and that is why people WANT to teach here. People use the south as an example of how schools should work, but because of how teachers are treated down there, people do not WANT to teach down there. Are there big problems in DPS? YES! But it is more from administrative problems, and not teacher problems. Are there teacher that do not do their job and are not worth what they are paid? Of course, but also name a profession or job where there are not people that are getting away with collecting a paycheck and not doing the work. Education is the future of our country, yet a lot of you are saying screw the teachers. What is one of the major problems why charter schools do not work? High teacher and administrative turnover. Why is that? Because they are being run by a for profit company that cuts corners by screwing their teachers on benefits and pay. Same reason why the many states have such a hard time getting teachers (like the south), they pay them crap and they leave for a better job or state at the first chance they can get. If we take the Dick DeVos route of screwing the teachers, I guarantee in 20 years Michigan will be worse off that most southern states and not a place where anyone wants to live, and not a place where employers want to bring jobs. Now with that said, we do need to ensure that schools are doing their jobs and educating students for the jobs of the future. |
Firstandten
Member
Username: Firstandten
Post Number: 21
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 4:50 pm: | |
Thats my point DT if the crappy teachers are all thats left then DPS must address issues of pay, retaining good teachers, safety etc. in order to remain a district where parents would want to send there children. If the crappy teachers were all that was left most parents would vote with their feet. The city/school distict would move very quickly to address that. The crappy teachers would have to get it together or risk losing their jobs to declining enrollment. Reform never happens until an entity is forced into it. Otherwise by the next contract or two the teachers will be back on the picket lines wanting the same thing there asking for today. |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 559
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 4:56 pm: | |
OK, great. But, where does that leave the kids that are left in DPS? They deserve better. Just because their parents aren't able to send them elsewhere. The kids that are left would be the ones who had parents who didn't vote, didn't care or were incapable of moving their kids out of DPS. Why hurt those kids while we wait for DPS to get off its collective ass and make the changes? |
Bob
Member
Username: Bob
Post Number: 1088
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 5:01 pm: | |
The problem is, the solution being given by a lot of people is not really a solution at all. Dick DeVos this morning said on NPR that the solution is, prosecute all the striking teachers to enforce the no striking law. Then open a bunch more charter schools, which will not fix the problem, just to open up a bunch more failing schools. There is a larger problem here than just DPS teachers. |
Firstandten
Member
Username: Firstandten
Post Number: 22
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 5:03 pm: | |
By no means am I saying charter schools are the answer. What they represent to many parents is choice. A safe environment moreso than better educational environment in many cases. Many charter schools haven't had to measure up because DPS is so bad many parents feel ANY school is better than the DPS school their kid is going too. But the charter schools test is coming.The competition will get keener and they will have to measure up or they will rightfully fail. |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 561
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 5:05 pm: | |
Then why do so many kids who go to charters end up back in DPS? Either the charters kicked them out or the parents found out that charters aren't all they're cracked up to be.
** Kids come back to DPS after 4th Friday count so DPS doesn't get the state funding for them...the charters do (as do any school who welcomes DPS kids and then kicks them out after the count). |
Bob
Member
Username: Bob
Post Number: 1089
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 5:11 pm: | |
The test of charter schools is coming to be now, just go look at the state report cards and see how they stack up with other schools. They do not stack up at all, in fact most have worse test scores than DPS. They do not have the resources of a school district to help the special needs students. I have sat through many hours of classes for my masters degree with teachers from charter schools, and the biggest problem they see besides lack of resources is high turnover. They come back to school every year not knowing who will be running the school. Consistancy is a big thing in education for children, and when you have high staff turnover, you have none of that. Why is that, they work for a company that is trying to make a profit with your tax dollars, so they pay teachers and administrators crap, and they (staff)leave as soon as they can. Is a solution really a school being run by a compnay trying to make a profit? Lots of people are saying more money needs to make it to the classroom, so lets go to a charter school, where they are trying to make a profit off of it. Yes, there needs to be choice so kids are not stuck in failing schools, but instead of fixing failing schools, our system is just making more failing schools.
(Message edited by bob on August 29, 2006) |
Bob
Member
Username: Bob
Post Number: 1090
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 5:13 pm: | |
What Detroitteacher says about Fridays counts and charter schools is true and I have heard that from sources in charter schools. They wait to get the money and then kick kids out. This also happens in many of the inner-ring suburb school districts. |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 563
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 5:14 pm: | |
I agree Bob. Charters are great for some kids, but not others. They suck, in general, for teachers and staff. We need solutions, not more problems. |
Firstandten
Member
Username: Firstandten
Post Number: 23
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 5:25 pm: | |
Bob- your looking at the big picture I have no doubt that by just about any metric you can think of most charter schools fall short. But until you can address the perception for the individual parent that sees their DPS schools has having significant safety/educational issues then charter schools will remain an imperfect option |
Firstandten
Member
Username: Firstandten
Post Number: 24
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 5:38 pm: | |
Here's a problem that goes beyond charters and is more of a threat than charters. The inner-ring suburban school districts are shrinking and need students. Guess who they will go after.. and plus you don't have all of the perceive negatives of charters. |
Bob
Member
Username: Bob
Post Number: 1091
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 5:53 pm: | |
You're right, I'm looking at more of an educational aspect, and you are hurting your child with that respect if you send them to a charter school. The safety issue is a huge one, that NEEDS to be addressed. But from a purely eduacational look, charter schools are by and far failing schools. And you are correct, inner-ring suburbs are more of a threat because they do not have all the shortfalls that charters have, they are not trying to make a profit with your tax money. Charter schools really care very little about your childs education, some company just wants to make some money. |
Janesback
Member
Username: Janesback
Post Number: 50
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 69.152.254.209
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 5:58 pm: | |
Bob, you state : inner-ring suburbs are more of a threat because they do not have all the shortfalls that charters have, they are not trying to make a profit with your tax money. Charter schools really care very little about your childs education, some company just wants to make some money.
So tell me, what exactly is your agenda with charter schools. Be honest, did you get fired from teaching there, or did your kids all get kicked out? It seems you are attacking a school with no stats other than your opinion. Please explain to me your agenda. Thanks, Jane  |
Bob
Member
Username: Bob
Post Number: 1092
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 6:25 pm: | |
No agenda, other than the education of children. I am a private school teacher(after teaching in the public schools for 3 years, laid off due to the same budget problems that all public schools are having), my wife is a public school teacher in one of the inner-ring suburbs. I have seen many students in my years leave to go to charter schools, only to be back after having even more problems withe the public and priavte schools they left. Like I have said also talked to many people in classses for my masters degree who have taught at charter schools and have stated many times the exact same thing. I know a lot of you are passionate about this because you want what is best for your child, so I understand where you are coming from, but I also know that you are not helping your child's education by sending your child there. I f it was just one person I know who has taught at one complaining it would be one, thing, but I have heard the same thing from multiple sources. I also have ironically applied twice to DPS, made it past the first round of interview, but had to wait one moneth for my file to make it from one department to another to get a call for the second interview, in the meantime, I was offered a teaching job eleswhere. |
Citylover
Member
Username: Citylover
Post Number: 1739
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 4.229.132.172
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 9:41 pm: | |
I have posted this before but I will again mostly to counter the bullshit that Bob is spewing.
I am close to someone that sets up charters.A former superintendent, teacher and high school principal in several urban districts around the country.The crap being said about charters is misleading and untruthful and dishonest.
Charters are not the end al and be all of education.Some are good some are not.They perform fairly much on an even level with the public schools.I have said it before but I will repeat the person I know that sets up charters does not gush about them.Instead she is realistic and practical and get this HONEST about how they do_ some are good some are bad.The bad ones are closed.Btw don't think for a second that the det teachers not reporting to work won't send a bunch of detroit kids to charter schools.......
And btw if Bob and anyone else is gonna constantly bash charters then to have any credibility you better damn well bash the dps because the record speaks for itself. |
Ltorivia485
Member
Username: Ltorivia485
Post Number: 2775
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 68.73.196.174
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 9:56 pm: | |
Detroit-teacher, my mom has been in the district for almost 40 years. She is VERY MUCH underpaid for her services (and she has three advanced degrees). |
Bob
Member
Username: Bob
Post Number: 1095
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 10:34 pm: | |
Citylover, I will not disagree with you on DPS's problems, I just did not see the need to go into detail on that because somemany other already do that. But charters, by percentage have many more failing schools than public. The ones that are passing are either the few and far between good ones you talk about, or have not been open long enough to be failing yet. I included the link to the MDE website that has all the school report cards on it. It does not paint a good picture of charters, but like you said, it also does not paint a great picture of DPS. The thing is DPS will not close, charters will (like some are starting to) have their charter revoked due to being a failing school.
https://oeaa.state.mi.us/ayp/ |
Dsmith
Member
Username: Dsmith
Post Number: 107
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 68.41.202.23
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 11:17 pm: | |
72% of DPS students come from families that are 'economically disadvantaged'. Maybe the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
http://www.schoolmatters.com/a pp/location/q/stid=23/llid=116 /stllid=207/locid=981907/catid =-1/secid=-1/compid=-1/site=pe s |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 566
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 12:06 am: | |
Latest news is that the two sides are making progress. Don't have details yet but when I do I will post them. |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 4930
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.174.229
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 9:02 am: | |
Detroitteacher,
The meeting was all about $$$$$$$ that you and your solidarity based teachers WANT!! I'm prejecting a new contract. Smaller class sizes, teacher/student vectors limited, health benefits, and a 2 to 5% pay raise. That's all you all going to get. TAKE OR LEAVE IT.
(Message edited by danny on August 31, 2006) |
Firstandten
Member
Username: Firstandten
Post Number: 26
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 152.163.100.8
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 3:05 pm: | |
The article in this weeks Michigan Chronicle only adds credibility to the teachers contention that the district is being mismanaged. I don't have the link but if true I could see some serious fallout as a result of a flawed/criminal? procurement process. |
Janesback
Member
Username: Janesback
Post Number: 54
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 69.153.20.152
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 3:38 pm: | |
Bob, thank you for your answer. I thought you had a score to settle with charter schools, I didnt know you situation
I couldnt imagine being a teacher now adays. My best friend was , until her husband made her quit. He was concerned for her safety, she taught in a pulic school , inner city, kind of rough. Her 8th grader one day got upset with her after a confrontation with her, slapped her across her face, put her in a head lock. There were 4 kids who jumped in to help her,while they pushed a panic button. Literally, these 5 females, 4 teenaged girls and one school teacher had to fight off this kid. He was 16 years old and weight 190. So that shows you how some Public schools are.
I think many parents are afraid their kids will get attacked in inner city schools and are afraid to enroll them. THanks for listening. Jane |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 568
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 152.163.100.8
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 3:49 pm: | |
Danny, I doubt we'll get as much as you say. I am guessing a pay freeze, nothing done with class size (where to put all the kids? They can't afford to hire more teachers). Doubt much will change with benefits either. I think we'll go into the contract status quo. We MIGHT get a student transfer rule if kids assault teachers.
We teachers don't know much more than the general public since we have to find out our info on the news, just like everyone else. Hopefully, we WILL be back at work on Tuesday! |
Bob
Member
Username: Bob
Post Number: 1099
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 152.163.100.8
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 4:17 pm: | |
No problem Janesback, you deserved an answer to your questions about me. |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 4940
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 198.111.165.162
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 4:58 pm: | |
Detroitteachers,
Sure the DFT unions and the DPS teachers demand smaller class sizes. They have been hollering about it ever since a new contract was voted upon in 1999. Imagine you in your 1850s unfixed classroom teaching to over 30 at risk grown ignorant kids from their broken homes in the ghettohoods in Detroit. |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 4941
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 198.111.165.162
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 5:03 pm: | |
Firstandten, Great post!!! That will show oldredfordette of what the free market system is. It doesn't babysit us, only to make a profit by means of competition. |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 4942
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 198.111.165.162
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 5:05 pm: | |
Oh yeah detroitteacher!
A reduced class size will get a DPS teachers a good advantage. Like you in your 1850's classroom teaching to at least 10 to 20 at risk students. |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 4943
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 198.111.165.162
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 5:22 pm: | |
Now since Detroit Public Schools are in the strike war against the Detroit School Board, let's see what happen to those suburban schools:
Hitlerland Livonia Public Schools had already shut down 7 public elementary schools due to low enrollment and merged one elementary school with the middle school. Folks awere crying foul to the Livonia School Board and a petition a recall after the primary vote the LSB jobs were kept.
Pontiac Public Schools are in a tight budget.
West Bloomfield Public Schools are doing great. Just recently they upgraded their High School into a 2 floor, megagymnasium wonder.
Dearborn Public Schools are doing fine except for Edsel Ford High. Fordson have to deal with the overcrowding due to the growing number to ethnic Arab Muslims.
Southfield Public Schools trying to maintain their budget to prevent to crisis.
Highland Park Public School are still with their tight budget.
Garden City Public Schools are in a very tight critical budget deficit. Just recently, the Garden City School Board decided to discontinue the contacted union maintanence workers to be placed by "BLACKS ONLY" non-union maintanence workers. A petition to recall the entire G.C.S.B. is on the way to the november ballot.
And Lincoln Park Public School Board voted to set a dress code to all schools. On the first day will Lincoln Park students must wear black or beige polo pants and shirts, NO BAGGY PANTS, protest words, or gang symbols. This incedent is referred back in the mid 1980s when the dress code for Lincoln Park High School was enforced to prevent kids from wearing any gothic and wiccan clothing. |
Irish_mafia
Member
Username: Irish_mafia
Post Number: 628
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.216.143.252
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 6:36 pm: | |
What would happen if all employees of the school system, including teachers, were "at will" employees like so many of the rest of us? |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 569
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 7:40 pm: | |
Irish, then we would be able to get rid of the crappy teachers (that would be a good thing). Also, when teachers got too high up on the pay scale, the board could fire them and replace them with new hires (high turnoever of good teachers...a bad thing). They could also load 70-80 kids in a class, not provide safe environments for either teachers, students or staff, etc. Doubt "at will" employment would solve much. The mismanagement of funds is what got DPS in the situation it's in now, not the teachers. Districts wouldn't be able to attract good teachers because the pay would be so lousy and there would be no safety net such as the union.
I'm not saying it wouldn't be a good thing, I'm just saying that the union not only fights for pay. They fight for safe classrooms, supplies, class size (which helps in the safe classroom issue).
Take a look at the DFT website and at the current contract proposals on both sides. The DFT wants many items that aren't related to pay and benefits in the teachers' contracts. Class size, removal of violent students from the school (teacher assaults), working copy machines, textbooks...to name a few.
There has to be a safety net for teachers. Teachers must (like nurses, doctors, lawyers) continue their education, have a specialized certificate, and take state tests to become certified. Schools can't just replace teachers with people off the street and train them to do the job (like so many other employers can). |
Bob
Member
Username: Bob
Post Number: 1100
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 8:39 pm: | |
Detroitteacher is correct. To go a little further, there are still ways to get rid of tenureded teachers that are incompetant or just plain not doing their job. But it involves an adminstrator to do lots of documentation, which a lot of them are unwilling to do for whatever reason. Which brings us back again to the adminstrative issues that continue to dog DPS and cause a majority of the problems and mismanagement. |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 570
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
| | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 9:45 pm: | |
There are teachers in our building that need to go and the Principal knows who they are. The problem is that to deem a teacher unsatisfactory requires MONTHS of classroom observations, complaints from parents, verbal warnings, written warnings and an investigation by the board. The Principal must document everything (in duplicate), have meetings with the teacher, provide a mentor for the teacher, and tons of other things. It is VERY difficult to deem a teacher unsat. This is a flaw in the system. NCLB was supposed to fix this flaw by requiring all teachers to be highly qualified. Many of the horrible teachers aren't highly qualified but have been given an opportunity to do things that would qualify them. Some did, some didn't. Unfortunately, with DPS, no one wants to teach there (well, very few new teachers would be willing to put up with the uncertainty of working for DPS so they don't apply). New hire candidates are non existent. The laid off teachers have all found other positions (I assume).
I'd love to see a few teachers in my building retire, go away, and just stop teaching. They do a dis-service to the kids and me when they don't do their jobs. Parents need to have an uprising when teachers don't do their jobs. That is one thing I'd like to see the union back away from. If teachers do a crappy job, they should be fired. |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 4946
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.174.229
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 8:37 am: | |
Well folks! First day of school for some DPS Students and not a single DPS teacher in sight. K-8 students will enter the school building to be with a babysitting administrator. While the 9 graders will enter the DPS high school for a 1/2 day orientation. There will be NO SCHOOL for all 10 thru 12 graders. Back to those 1850s typed classrooms providing those students with a 19th century education. Most poor at risk kids will never make it to the next grade and only a few would be choosen. The board will petition the courts to FORCE the teachers back to work. If not more possible lay-offs will commence. Detroit Public Schools is in hard times and living in the hard knocks. Stuck in the ghettos of Detroit filled with people who declare themselves " unfit" for society. This is the case of a mental holocaust with a final solution in hand.
DPS Class of 2007
40% of students will graduate.
25% will drop-out.
20% will have to repeat the grade.
7% within 1 month of students will migrate to charter schools.
7% within 1 month of students will migrate to parochial schools. |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 4947
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.174.229
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 8:38 am: | |
Next year prejection in DPS Students.
over 108,000 students will be enrolled. |
Oldredfordette
Member
Username: Oldredfordette
Post Number: 390
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 68.60.181.41
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 9:58 am: | |
The teacher contingent at the Labor Day Parade yesterday looked strong and defiant. If you were there, Detroitteacher, I got you on tape! Good luck to you all today. |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 4951
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.84.62
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 11:49 am: | |
Detroit Teachers, marching for solidarity YAYYY!!!!! |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 596
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 6:36 pm: | |
The 9th graders at our building came in, signed in and left. The admin wasn't about to babysit. Will be interesting to see what Wednesday holds for everyone. I just wish they'd get this resolved so I can get back to my kids. MANY of my students joined in our march outside the school today. MANY parents were in support of the teachers and marched with us. Strong community support.
I heard that Coleman isn't even trying to meet us on any issues and will not speak during negotiations. That says alot right there. We are now asking for 5% over 3 years. That isn't much but he's saying no to that. He is refusing to even consider many of DFT proposals. Looks like this might be a long one, folks. |
Bratt
Member
Username: Bratt
Post Number: 419
Registered: 01-2004
Posted From: 70.236.208.93
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 6:50 pm: | |
I agree Detroitteacher...it does look like a long one. I hate to see this go on...I really do. Even though my children do not attend DPS, I still am very interested in this.
Question Detroitteacher: with 9,500 teachers in DPS, how much money a day will they save by not paying the teachers because of the strike? If you had to guess.... |
Zulu_warrior
Member
Username: Zulu_warrior
Post Number: 2989
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 9:04 pm: | |
The better question is how many dollars a day will be lost as the district stays out and how many teachers will be either not hired or eliminated because of it..... |
Zulu_warrior
Member
Username: Zulu_warrior
Post Number: 2991
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 9:04 pm: | |
The better question is how many dollars a day will be lost as the district stays out and how many teachers will be either not hired or eliminated because of it..... |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 1347
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 10:10 pm: | |
A large technical and community college in Madison WI about twenty years ago experienced a strike just before the first day of class. After a few days of negotiations, the head of the college leaked out to the radio/TV/press the telegram he was going to send the next morning at 8 AM, if the teachers were still out. The telegram was for a series of help-wanted ads to be sent nationwide, which would have hired any available, competent teacher on the spot.
Most of the teachers were at their classes by 8 AM the next day... The few holdouts were replaced if they didn't return quickly enough.
There is a glut of underemployed teachers who would quit their jobs (if they have any) in order to receive the lordly sums that Detroit's teachers receive.
(Message edited by LivernoisYard on September 05, 2006) |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 597
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 10:58 pm: | |
This was written by a colleague of mine (a teacher). I have removed her name for privacy reasons. Thought it deserved being put out there as food for thought. It represents how the majority of the teachers think and feel. Feel free to comment.
We Are At War
Thomas M. Cooley High School Teacher and member of the DFT
The Detroit Federation of Teachers is made up of many adults who are committed to positively impacting the lives of children. As Educators in the age of No Child Left Behind we must remember that we are at war
We Are At War
As Educators
We are at war against a government that continues to author and implement policies that penalize the poor for being poor
That condemn the uneducated for not having an education
And that continuously lies to the American people while stressing the importance of character, integrity, and morality
We are at war against an educational system that seems to ignore the reality that only one in every two high school students will ever go to college
We are at war against mediocrity
We are at war against dysfunctional parents
As members of the Detroit Federation of Teachers:
We are at war against a CEO who has a background in accounting and not education and who has annually increased the numbers of administrators who have no direct impact on the education of our children and whose salaries are, at minimum, double that of many teachers
We are at war against a school district that annually receives a billion dollars in state aid and an additional 350 million in Title 1 funding and yet claims to not have sufficient funds to grant a 5 % increase in pay to teachers one year after granting an 18% raise to those who supervise the teachers
We are at war against a CEO that wants professionals to get permission from a principal to photocopy materials to use to instruct students
Despite our current challenges, we must remember:
Unlike the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, this war is not about terrorism, oil, or weapons of mass destruction
This war is about children
About our communities
About our city, our state, and our nation
We must stand in solidarity for the children
We must stand in solidarity as the DFT
We must mean what we say when we chant in unison,
No contract No work.
And when this fight is won and we are back in the classroom
We must do what we do with compassion and courage
When these young people push us to our limits
We have to push back with information and activities that will enable them to grow
Grow into the kinds of adults equipped to continue this war
We must do what we do with tough love
Not because our job description tells us
But because it is the right thing to do
To prepare young people for a world that will take no excuses
No prisoners
And have no mercy on those who are not adequately prepared
This war must be won and we cannot pull the troops out before the victory is won
Our future depends on our success Your future depends on our success and the future of those we serve is unequivocally tied to the quality of our fight
And the war continues
|
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 598
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 11:04 pm: | |
I figured it out (the math question as to how much the district will save by having to not pay teachers for the time we are on a work stoppage). I calculated the daily rate to be 120.00 x 9500 teachers (this does not include support staff such as counselors, psychologists, etc that are DFT members) and the figure is a savings of $1,140,000 per day. I am being generous on the daily rate. I'd say the district is saving about 900,000 per day by us being off (they still pay our benefits and such). |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 1348
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 11:08 pm: | |
Teachers going to war?
Get real. They're just Neville Chamberlains with picket signs. |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 599
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 11:12 pm: | |
Quote:
There is a glut of underemployed teachers who would quit their jobs (if they have any) in order to receive the lordly sums that Detroit's teachers receive.
My reply: What lordly sums?? Most of us have to have second jobs just to stay afloat as we pay out of pocket for student's supplies (copies, books, classroom necessities) and our own classes. We can't attract teachers in DPS as is...who would want to quit a job to come work there with all the BS, deplorable working conditions, no admin support, and pay that may or may not come when it is supposed to (often we miss a pay because there was a "glitch" in the system). Also, these folks would need to have a background check (doesn't matter if you are already teaching), have their transcripts sent (to see if they are highly qualified as required by NCLB), be fingerprinted, and a myriad of other things that need to be done prior to being hired by ANY district. Word has gotten out that DPS: lay off teachers each year, don't have adequate supplies, don't support their teachers, and have issues that most suburban teachers can't handle. I don't see anyone jumping or chomping at the bit to come work for DPS. Talk to ANY new teacher and they will tell you that DPS is not an option. |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 600
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 11:21 pm: | |
Livernois: Did you READ the entire poem? Doesn't sound like it. It's not all about the strike...it's about what WE do, as teachers and why we do it and how we go about doing it. It's also about what's wrong with the entire system, not just DPS. ALL teachers in Michigan are union, not just DPS. You could also insert the Eastern Michigan University union in place of DFT. |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 1349
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 05, 2006 - 11:28 pm: | |
Again, everything is blown out of reasonable proportion. "We have to provide xxx for our students."
The former Michigan Superintendent of Public Instruction Tom Watkins today on WJR said that a typical DPS teacher spent $300/yr. How intolerable is $300 out of $53,000 income plus nontaxable perquisites of Cadillac health insurance and retirement payouts? About 1/2 of 1% for anybody with a fourth-grade math skill. Detroit's Teachers continually bitch as if they're having their teeth extracted without pain killers about everything. Nothing is ever right for them.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, just pit unemployed teachers against those overpaid teachers who are not satisfied with what they are already getting. Just call their bluff.
I know what the results will be. And so would any teacher faced with the threat of losing her job. |
Ltorivia485
Member
Username: Ltorivia485
Post Number: 2778
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 68.73.196.174
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 1:17 am: | |
We are at war against a school district that annually receives a billion dollars in state aid and an additional 350 million in Title 1 funding and yet claims to not have sufficient funds to grant a 5 % increase in pay to teachers one year after granting an 18% raise to those who supervise the teachers
The pay raise is a LIE. Principals and assistant principals did not receive raises. What's the point when the school system will take away 10 percent and increase health care premiums? Raise my a$$. |
Royce
Member
Username: Royce
Post Number: 1803
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 69.209.183.232
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 1:57 am: | |
Livernoisyard, it's no secret that you have a dislike for public school teachers, particularly DPS teachers. However, answer this question: "Does your current job require you to pay $300 for items that are supposed to be already at your office or work site?" |
Royce
Member
Username: Royce
Post Number: 1804
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 69.209.183.232
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 2:14 am: | |
Ltorivia, if the principals and assistant principals did not receive a raise, then why would the district say that they did get a raise when they know that teachers would be upset since we loaned the district a week's pay?
Most people or organization's don't claim something that they know will get them in trouble if they claim it. If there was no raise, then where did the money go, Ltorivia?
BTW, everybody has to pay more for health care. My prescriptions cost more than they used to. The "no raise because health care costs went up" argument doesn't hold water, Ltorivia. If the administrators are healthy and haven't incurred any health care expenses, then the raise they received is a true raise. |
Dsmith
Member
Username: Dsmith
Post Number: 108
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 68.41.202.23
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 3:49 am: | |
Livernoisyard has got it right. The DPS teachers could be replaced with the snap of a finger. Michigan is flooded w/ college grads w/ teaching certificates whom are being forced to move to Florida, Virgina, Nevada, Arizona, etc. to find employment.
Scrapping the Prop A based school funding system should be Michigan's #1 priority. |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 601
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 152.163.100.8
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 7:45 am: | |
If DPS can replace us then WHY are schools closed until further notice?
In defense of Ltorvia's post...Principlas and admin have NOT received the money that the board promised. They are getting screwed just as bad as teachers (they just make more than we do). The problem is that the board APPROVED the raise while taking 5 days pay from teachers.
I can't see DPS replacing teachers with new grads. Not many want to teach in DPS because of the issues it has. I attend class with recent grads and not one has expressed a desire to teach in DPS. The new teachers that are hired in leave because of the issues. We have had 5 new hires (in science) and all have left for out of state because of better deals, bonuses, better working conditions (cleaner and safer), more support form admin. etc. DPS has to make sure that each new hire would be Highly Qualified to teach each class (not subject). There is a shortage of science and math teachers as is. If they don't make sure they are HQ then DPS will not receive Federal funding.
Would anyone want to work somewhere (if they could find a better deal elsewhere) that is so wishy washy, has deplorable working conditions, etc? When I started teaching, I CHOSE to teach in Detroit because that is where my roots are and I think the kids deserve great teachers. The district wasn't in the horrid shape it's in now, either. Sure, they had problems but nothing like what I am seeing now.
Round up 9500 teachers and we'll take them to the Board and see what happens. My bet is that you won't be able to find 9500 teachers who will agree to work in DPS. |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 4953
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.174.229
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 8:46 am: | |
Well, All DPS Schools are CLOSED until further notice. Parents are bickering. Thoughts of sending their chidren to those EVIL charter schools, suburban schools and parochial schools will be done. Everyone is fed up. Socialism and Capitalism within our American society don't mix. It don't mix with the DPS teachers, either. The DPS Teacher/D.S.B. war rages on. The D.S.B. said that " Give it up! Here's the contract, sign it and get over it." But the DPS Techers said "HELL NO!!! We need more MONEY to feed our families."
Let the war continue until somebody wins. Let the DPS Teachers strike until battle ends. Let the D.S.B. fight until they declare their victory. This is a war for education and our future of our students. |
65memories
Member
Username: 65memories
Post Number: 285
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.238.170.34
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 8:52 am: | |
To clarify Ltorivia's point: Principals and Assistant Principals DID NOT receive a raise. Some Assistant Principals at the bottom of the pay scale received a salary adjustment to bring their salaries up to the minimum pay given AP's in the Metro Detroit area. These were new AP's at the bottom of the seniority list, who were making less than the curriculum leaders they were supervising. For example, at my school, there is a $!8,000 dollar disparity in salary between the AP with 39 years experience and the AP with 2 years experience. We had a newly appointed AP who was the Social Studies Dept. Head. When he was made AP, he was making just a little above what he was making as Dept. Head. Then AP's had to to take a 10% salary cut for two years straight(in addition to other concessions). Thus,this new AP was now making less than the department heads he was supervising. The board attempted to rectify this with a salary adjustment. Experienced Assistant Principals did not get the adjustment. |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 603
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 152.163.100.8
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 9:27 am: | |
65, it is my understanding that they never saw the cash, even though it was promised. I was at the Board meeting where they voted on that issue and approved a "salary adjustment" for anyone with the word Principal in their title. A few of the newer (hired last year as APs) folks did take a pay cut to become APs, but then again, they aren't unionized either. The Board took that away a few years ago. The ONLY union left is the DFT. |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 604
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 152.163.100.8
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 9:30 am: | |
On a sidenote, I don't think the Board is clear in its messages to their staff (teachers, APs, Principals, etc) on exactly what they are doing. There is MUCH confusion. I don't think teachers are complaining about the APs and Principals, we are complaining about the top heavy admin above those positions. |
Spartacus
Member
Username: Spartacus
Post Number: 142
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 209.114.251.65
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 9:34 am: | |
"ALL teachers in Michigan are union, not just DPS."
Actually, no. Teachers at the best Michigan schools (the private ones)are not unionized.
It has been well documented on this board that Michigan has some of the highest teacher pay in the country. When you factor in cost of living it may even be the highest. This doesn't even factor in the premium benefits teachers receive in Michigan (once again, among the best in the nation). DPS salaries compare favorably to other salaries in Michigan. What exactly is the problem here? |
Bob
Member
Username: Bob
Post Number: 1121
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.98.224
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 9:57 am: | |
The sad thing about this whole situation is that the state legislature, and if elected Dick DeVos, is going to use this whole mess to expand charter schools and push for vouchers. So instead of fixing the problems that DPS has, (mostly adminstrative problems, but other problems that have been discussed at length through this whole thread), we are going to create a bunch of new schools that just extend the old problems, they just will not exist at first because they are new schools. There is a lot of adminstrative waste in many school district and redundant services. There would be massive cost savings if school districts pooled more of their resources, instead of each little district having redundant adminstrators, special ed services, transportation, etc. But instead of trying to find logical ways to solve the budgetary problems in schools, the state will be going after teachers, which are the most important resources our state and the schools have. Expansion of charters will create a bunch of little schools, with redundant services, and poorly paid and compensated teachers. Which in turn will make they look for employment elsewhere (most likely out of state). So instead of being a state where people actually want to come to teach, we will become a state where you can't fill the teaching jobs (like the south), because it is not worth what you have to go through to be a teacher for what you are compensated. The problems in DPS is happening in urban school districts nationwide. Instead of looking at the problem and trying to fix it, we are just creating new schools in the mold of the old, but screwing the teachers over. And in the end, who gets screwed, the students. It is a no win situation for DPS students. They can't go to class at DPS, there are not enough good charter schools for them to go, and they will either need to move to go to another school district, or fight for the few slots another district may have through school of choice. With the current MI House Leaders proposal, he wants to let WCCC charter more schools and create an "alternative school district of charters." So that is essentially the status quo in terms of education, not really trying to get to the root of the problem, just trying to do the same for a lot cheaper because they cannot get the DPS teachers to do the same.
(Message edited by bob on September 06, 2006) |
1953
Member
Username: 1953
Post Number: 975
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 209.104.146.146
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 10:21 am: | |
I propose a judge gets some cahones and sends the teachers back to work, since it is illegal for public workers to strike in Michigan. |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 605
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 10:33 am: | |
When I reference teacher unions, I am ONLY talking about public schools. It has been referenced (somewhere in this thread) that private and charter schools produce even lower test scores than public, so how are they the BEST schools in Michigan?
(Message edited by detroitteacher on September 06, 2006) |
Oldredfordette
Member
Username: Oldredfordette
Post Number: 392
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 68.60.181.41
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 10:34 am: | |
Oh, the law. |
Bob
Member
Username: Bob
Post Number: 1122
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.98.224
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 10:40 am: | |
With private schools, they are not forced to "by law " to have highly qualified, certified teachers, but many are forced to due to the fact that parents are demanding it. This is one reason so many Catholic Schools have closed nation-wide, they are forced to pay better to get teachers to come, and are forcing teachers to be certified. With charter schools, they are forced by law to have highly qualified teachers, BUT when they cannot fill the positions, they need to have someone there. This is why so many states nationwide failed to have all teachers highly qualified, there are just not enough highly qualified teachers to fill the positions, OR teachers cannot afford to take the positions due to the fact they do not pay enough to make it, so they have to look into another field to make enough money to make it. |
65memories
Member
Username: 65memories
Post Number: 286
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.238.170.40
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 10:43 am: | |
That "send the teachers back to work" argument because it is illegal is a weak one and does nothing to remedy the situation. As Detroit Teacher has alluded, those who are in the trenches (principals, assistant principals and teachers) have a better idea of what education is all about then the top brass. Coleman has never taught, never been a school level administrator and has bounce from one failed job in California to Texas to here. It's clear from the PR flacks in DPS that those at the top have no concept of what education in the classroom, particularly as it applies to teachers getting ready during the first days of school, is all about. The DPS PR frontman (who, by the way, should be ex-newswoman Mattie Majors, since she is knowledgeable and articulate) couldn't even answer basic questions yesterday with any degree of sense. (And by the way, no one should be too enamored with Janna Garrison's leadership either. She's certainly not a Riordan or even an Elliott, for that matter.) I sense the judge, knowing what we don't know, made the right decision. |
65memories
Member
Username: 65memories
Post Number: 288
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.238.170.40
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 10:43 am: | |
That "send the teachers back to work" argument because it is illegal is a weak one and does nothing to remedy the situation. As Detroit Teacher has alluded, those who are in the trenches (principals, assistant principals and teachers) have a better idea of what education is all about then the top brass. Coleman has never taught, never been a school level administrator and has bounce from one failed job in California to Texas to here. It's clear from the PR flacks in DPS that those at the top have no concept of what education in the classroom, particularly as it applies to teachers getting ready during the first days of school, is all about. The DPS PR frontman (who, by the way, should be ex-newswoman Mattie Majors, since she is knowledgeable and articulate) couldn't even answer basic questions yesterday with any degree of sense. (And by the way, no one should be too enamored with Janna Garrison's leadership either. She's certainly not a Riordan or even an Elliott, for that matter.) I sense the judge, knowing what we don't know, made the right decision. |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 606
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 10:49 am: | |
We would be happy to go back to work if DPS would budge on even SOME of the issues (like a copy machine we can use, tranferring students who assault teachers, etc). If they were even TRYING to bargain in good faith, we'd be back in the classrooms right now. Coleman won't even open his mouth. He has NO experience with kids (he was CFO in CA and TX, both of which got rid of him) and has no clue about what is best for the KIDS. He's a numbers man and his actions (or lack thereof) basically sends the message of screw the kids. He's not following through with ANYTHING he promised last year in order for us to go back to work on time. Once bitten, twice shy. |
Spartacus
Member
Username: Spartacus
Post Number: 143
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 209.114.251.65
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 12:54 pm: | |
You're insulting our intelligence if you're honestly telling us that you're on strike to benefit the kids. |
Dsmith
Member
Username: Dsmith
Post Number: 109
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 68.41.202.23
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 1:34 pm: | |
Detroitteacher, your claim that "Not many want to teach in DPS" is a bogus self-serving lie. I personally know three unemployed college grads with teaching certificates that couldn't even get a call back from the DPS.
It's time to bring in the scabs. The union's roles in our society have become played out. Bring on the free market, vouchers included. |
Oldredfordette
Member
Username: Oldredfordette
Post Number: 402
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 68.60.181.41
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 1:47 pm: | |
Yes, bring on the scabs. You get what you pay for in this world. I hope your children are taught by scabs and get scab values. See how great it's been for Detroit Newspapers.
Spartacus, you insult our intelligence with every one of your posts. |
Spartacus
Member
Username: Spartacus
Post Number: 144
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 209.114.251.65
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 2:13 pm: | |
Oldred:
What happened to make you such a vile hateful person? Seriously, you have a lot of hostility. |
Bob
Member
Username: Bob
Post Number: 1123
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.98.224
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 2:23 pm: | |
No offense, but it does not work that way. You cannot run a district on first year teachers. With that said, you also can't run a district on all older teachers, which is what a lot of people are worried about. Since younger teachers are the first to go, it leave no new blood. The best districts are run with a mix of old and new. Charter schools are an example, most (not all)are run on a revolving door of teachers and adminstrators, that at the first chance bail for a better teaching situation. What some of you are proposing is only going to hurt students MORE and not fix the current problem. With that said, those who keep suggesting vouchers as the solution, just wait till you see what's left when schools are able to pick and chose the best and the students with special needs in education, will be left behind the whatever is left of DPS. Again, not solving the problems that are currently making DPS and other urban schools broken. Everything you are suggesting ignore the problems. Yes, the current situation has lots of problems and I know a lot of you want what is best for the children, but many of you do not seem to realize what some of this will lead to. |
Oldredfordette
Member
Username: Oldredfordette
Post Number: 406
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 68.60.181.41
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 2:34 pm: | |
I have a lot of hostility toward the bottom feeders known as scabs. And their apologists. |
Motorcitymayor2026
Member
Username: Motorcitymayor2026
Post Number: 1271
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 35.11.212.197
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 3:04 pm: | |
While I agree that the teachers should be well paid, and should have smaller classes, more techonology, enough supplies, etc, striking is not the way to do it.
Detroitteacher, by the way, a majority of teachers, even in Brighton, spend their own personal money on supplies or other things for their students... If you dont want to spend the money dont do it...
Do NOT say that striking is "for the kids" That is pure bullshit... You think the kids are getting a better education being babysat by janitors then they are by a teacher, even if the rooms are cramped or you are missing supplies?
There are teaching positions available everywhere in this country, if its really THAT BAD then find another place to teach.. Otherwise, go back to teaching the future of Detroit, they need it. |
Southwestmap
Member
Username: Southwestmap
Post Number: 571
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 70.229.231.102
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 3:29 pm: | |
Well, motorcity, your solution is that teachers should spend their own money to educate someone else's kids while the brass and the VIP's spend the tax monies on non-educational perks like travel and such?
So, what if your kid is so unfortunate as to have a teacher who maybe has a handicapped child or spouse and who doesn't, as a result, have extra money to lavish on her classroom or on bathroom supplies, etc? How fair is that for your child? |
Motorcitymayor2026
Member
Username: Motorcitymayor2026
Post Number: 1272
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 35.11.212.197
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 3:44 pm: | |
I wouldnt put my child in Detroit Public Schools in the state it is today... |
Southwestmap
Member
Username: Southwestmap
Post Number: 572
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 70.229.231.102
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 3:54 pm: | |
What about in the the other districts like Brighton where you believe that teachers are substantially subsidizing their classrooms?
And, Bob - you are so wrong about Catholic schools. They have had highly qualified, certified and educated teachers for many decades. When I was in school many, many years ago, my small Detroit Catholic high school had North Central and UM accreditation. Look at the obits published for the nuns in the Free Press and the News- they all have at least Masters degrees and they got them in the 1950's.
It is a complete myth that catholic schools can't exist now because the teachers have to be accredited - as if that is something new.
Catholic schools close because huge building costs, salaries for lay teachers, insurance costs have become too big and the enrollment can't support those infrastructure costs with private paying while still paying educational mills to the public schools. Most catholic school parents are working folks, after all. |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 607
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 152.163.100.8
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 4:11 pm: | |
Merely having a Master's degree doesn't make one highly qualified. You can look at the Michigan.gov website to find out all the qualifications. As little as 10 years back, North Central Accredidation didn't mention highly qualified. The issue here isn't private schools, it's DPS...which is why it's on the DETROIT side of this forum.
I teach in Detroit because I BELIEVE in the KIDS.
Yes, striking is for the kids. If not, then DPS won't be able to attract and RETAIN good teachers.
DSmith, your friends who didn't get callbacks...well they didn't apply right. DPS is FULL of mismanagement. It took me three applications, two fingerprint sessions and 4 transcript requests to finally get my file together (they kept losing my information). I put a file together MYSELF and walked through the process, having each section stamped by someone different. They then told me to find my own school, contact the Principal and interview. The Principal then had to call DPS and tell them he wanted me as a teacher in his building. MANY new hires don't want to be bothered going through the hoops of the applicaiton process at DPS. On top of that, I had to PAY them to apply. Tell your friends to do it that way. DPS won't call back until the file is complete and you make a stink about it.
Many teachers in other areas spend money on their classrooms because they want to, not because they HAVE to in order for the classroom to RUN EFFECTIVELY because someone with some authority had to sit first class on a trip.
If so many parents think we are wrong, then why were there so many out picketing with us? |
Southwestmap
Member
Username: Southwestmap
Post Number: 574
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 70.229.231.102
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 4:22 pm: | |
No, I guess you know everything, Detroit Teacher. A Master's Degree and 25 or 30 years of classroom experience probably didn't make a Catholic school teacher nearly as good as your daily run-of-the-mill public school teacher! And North Central accreditation of schools was meaningless, too. By the way, what accreditations distinguish the school that you presently teach in?
You also may have missed the passionate discuussions on this forum about Catholic schools in the City, and I do believe that Bob was referencing those. |
Firstandten
Member
Username: Firstandten
Post Number: 30
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 4:45 pm: | |
DT- I'm curious, what is the feeling among the teachers you know if metrics were put in place in order to determine the effectiveness of the teachers and rewarding those who can show superior effectiveness in the classroom, and not rewarding those who can't |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 608
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 4:47 pm: | |
We have North Central Accredidation at Cooley. I wasn't knocking Catholic schools or its teachers. I was merely stating FACT. A Master's and 35-40 yrs of experience is meaningless anymore unless that teacher is Highly Qualified as defined by NCLB. Times have changed and this is the year that schools must comply with ALL NCLB requirements. They aren't MY rules (and I think some are outrageous). Don't get snarky with me, I am merely contributing MY experiences and knowledge of the whole situation, since I am on the front lines. |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 609
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 4:50 pm: | |
Firstandten: The consensus about that topic is split. The teachers that aren't doing their jobs are not in favor of it. Those of us who are making headway in the class are all in favor of it. It's mostly the younger, newer teachers who are in favor of this type of merit pay. Those who really need to retire or who simply have given up are screamning that it isn't fair. |
Spartacus
Member
Username: Spartacus
Post Number: 145
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 209.114.251.65
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 4:53 pm: | |
Maybe the UAW will strike on behalf of the car buying public. If automakers don't pay the line workers more they won't be able to retain and attract top talent to build cars. Without top workers quality will slip. If the UAW stikes for higher wages we will all be able to drive around in higher quality cars.
I had been under the impression the teachers were greedy and not operating in the kids best interest, thanks for clearing that up. |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 1354
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 5:00 pm: | |
Spartacus, you should know that every public serpent strike is done, first and foremost, for the benefit of the children, whoever they are. Tax-and-spend liberals say that all the time so it must be true. |
Southwestmap
Member
Username: Southwestmap
Post Number: 575
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 70.229.231.102
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 5:01 pm: | |
Detroit teacher, you are way too full of yourself -"Those of us who are making headway in the classroom... the newer, younger teachers.."
Someday you will look back at your callow, shallow assumptions about yourself, your work, your wonderfulness and cringe! |
Janesback
Member
Username: Janesback
Post Number: 68
Registered: 08-2006
Posted From: 69.152.252.88
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 5:04 pm: | |
ouch.... |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 610
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 5:04 pm: | |
I am not full of myself. Parents are asking that kids are in my class, my students score higher on the MEAP, a higher percentage of my seniors go to college than some of the other teachers in my dept., and former students come back to thank me ALL the time. I AM a damned good teacher and if saying so makes me callow and shallow, then so be it. |
Firstandten
Member
Username: Firstandten
Post Number: 31
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 5:10 pm: | |
I just wonder what would happen if DPS teachers became at-will employees free to negotiate their own salary and benefit packages with yearly reviews and raises based on their performance. |
Firstandten
Member
Username: Firstandten
Post Number: 32
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 5:12 pm: | |
I just wonder what would happen if DPS teachers became at-will employees free to negotiate their own salary and benefit packages with yearly reviews and raises based on their performance. |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 1355
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 5:13 pm: | |
Then, DT, cross the picket line and teach already.
Sorry, but you're on strike for the money, just like the others--bad or good. I'm sure that you will not turn in to the school board's coffers any increases in your pay for which you are striking.
Others, in the private sector, take pay cuts or lose their jobs, but public serpents want high salaries plus Cadillac perks and want them for "life." |
Tammypio
Member
Username: Tammypio
Post Number: 74
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 68.43.85.165
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 7:17 pm: | |
I am a Catholic school teacher in the city of Detroit...Gesu School to be exact. Our school has an excellent reputation and a rich history in the city of educating children for 80 years. The children educated at Catholic schools in the past were taught by women who were highly qualified for their jobs. Yes, many of the sisters who taught had master degrees!
There are now 10 Catholic elementary schools left in the city of Detroit and there are several reasons for that: 1. Lay teachers have taken the place of the nuns who have retired or who have passed on and we obviously need to be paid more than those who lived in an order in a building on the school campus grounds. 2. Charter schools are opening up all over the city and the parents who cannot afford our school are taking the children there instead of in the public system. 3. Catholics have moved out of the city. We have a very small percentage of Catholic families at our school, but we have a huge percentage of families who want a Christian-based education with values and morals for their child (or in many cases, grandchild).
I support the DPS teachers. As a matter of fact, many of our parents are DPS teachers.
However, please let it be known that our school has to be accredited, our teachers have to be certified and HIGHLY QUALIFIED AND we also spend a great deal of money on supplies for our classrooms and our students each year. Most of our teachers have Masters degrees or are working on one. I have been teaching for 15 years and make less than $35,000! But, I LOVE my job and I CHOOSE to stay in Catholic education. I also choose to stay in the city where I honestly feel that I am making a difference in my student's lives. I do not have to put up with a hostile environment. Our school is a wonderful place to work and to learn. Most of our parents are very supportive and are happy that their children are in a loving, safe, and academic challenging environment. So.....no I wouldn't trade positions.
Detroitteacher...I have read your posts and do feel that you are an excellent teacher and that you are to be commended for choosing Detroit and staying there. Again, I support the teachers in their pleas, but I did feel the need to stick up for the Catholic school teachers too! |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 611
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 8:22 pm: | |
Tommypio, thanks for your support. I am a huge supporter of a parent's right to choose an education that best fits the needs of their family. We need a balance of quality schools (and teachers) for our kids.
I am not anti choice. My son went to a charter and to public. I went to a parochial school for a few years.
Catholic school teachers are some of the best folks I know. I attend school with many. I am not knocking parochial schools. I think ALL teachers, whether public or private do a hell of a job.
We all know who the horrible teachers are in our buildings. We all know who the great teachers are in our school. The union does need to step back and stop protecting those who aren't doing their job. Everyone knows who they are, and THEY know who they are.
Public schools must accept anyone who walks through the door, regardless of ability to pay, GPA, family issues, violent tendencies, etc. Privatized schools can pick and choose who attends. Because of that, public schools are inundated with kids who have issues, who assault teachers, and who rarely have enough money for lunch. These kids have family issues, must work to help raise siblings, often have parents who don't care or are unable to be involved. Teachers are often the only adults in these kids' lives who give a damn, who will listen, and who will lovingly accept them. Teachers wear many hats. We wear those hats with pride and willingly accept the challenge.
Many privatized schools don't have to fight to get a copy made for a kid to take home or have to fight to have books and enough seating to serve oversized classes. Many of these issues are what are on the table with the contract talks.
I commend ALL teachers, not just public school teachers. We are ALL in the trenches helping kids.
I merely report what I have experienced and know from my time in DPS. I don't speak for all teachers but know we all care for the kids.
Again, thanks for all the support. Without parochial school teachers (who love their jobs as much as I do) we wouldn't be able to offer a CHOICE of education to our parents and our kids. We need that choice, as a community. Even though I am a public school teacher, I also support private schools and charters. Choice is what makes this country what it is. |
Detroitteacher
Member
Username: Detroitteacher
Post Number: 612
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 8:33 pm: | |
Livernois: I come from a long line of Union workers and refuse to cross ANY picket line. No, I won't hand back any salary. I earn every red cent I make. We have stellar health care benefits because parents often send their kids to school sick, with childhood diseases such as ringworm and pink eye. I caught menengitis from work. Most of those in the private sector don't have to deal with all of that on a daily basis. Teachers also come into work sick. Disease is rampant in school buildings. We NEED that health coverage so that we can get better and get back to our kids.
I need to feed my famnily and pay my bills, right along with the rest of America. I am a single mom, have only one child and need to provide a home for him. I don't live above my means, don't have a flashy car, don't have expensive clothing, don't eat lavishly. I live a modest life. I pay for my classes that I am required to take to keep my job (and they aren't cheap). Do I deserve everything I get? Sure do! |
Broken_main
Member
Username: Broken_main
Post Number: 1156
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 69.222.11.226
| | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 1:29 am: | |
Haven't been on the DY lately. Detroitteacher, just to, let you know that I support you 100 percent. I truly understand what you are saying. Having been raised in a family of teachers I know the reason for your union's offers on the table.
Neither myself nor my children will be crossing that picket line. I even walked the picket with my students teachers to show my support. |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 4958
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.174.229
| | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 9:00 am: | |
While Detroit teachers, the Parents of Detroit kids strike back by moving their children to other alternative schools. Recent reports from Channel 4 told that over 400 Detroit parents are enrolling their kids to Warrendale Academy. But getting your child to enroll in Warrendale Academy is tough. All the grade level are almost full. And the administrators are doing a lottery to see which child will enter or not. As a result only 75 kids made it. Other Detroit parents are send their children to Oak Park Public Schools for it is a school of choice program. |
Bob
Member
Username: Bob
Post Number: 1126
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.98.224
| | Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 11:39 am: | |
Sorry, I may not have explained myself as clear as I should have in terms of Catholic School, I myself went to one for Elementary school, although it was in the Lansing area and all the teachers were not even close to having the proper credentials. Nice to hear the AOD is in much better shape. Being a teacher at a private school now after teaching in public school, I can go on and on about the differences, but like everything (including charters there are good ones and bad ones). The biggest problem is that there are not enough charters and private school to fill the gaps in a failing school district, especially the size of the urban school districts that are failing (like DPS). The powers that be continue to ignore the fact that public schools need to exist and need to be fixed. The current solution to the DPS problem that is being floated around by Craig DeRoche is creating an alternative district of charters run by WCCC. Creating new schools in Detroit without trying to fix what broke DPS will not solve the problem, just prolong it. And a public school has to accept all student who live in an area if a charter or private is full, you are out of luck. Then what kids are left are stuck in DPS, with the leftovers. Good charters and private schools are great, but not trying to fix DPS does not help the problem, just puts it off.
(Message edited by bob on September 07, 2006) |
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