Discuss Detroit » Archives - Beginning July 2006 » Indian Village Crime Alert « Previous Next »
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Motorcitymayor2026
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Username: Motorcitymayor2026

Post Number: 1114
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 24.231.189.137
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 12:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just reported on Channel 4 that Indian Village is on a crime alert, and has seen a large spike in crime in the past 2 weeks, with 5 residents held at gunpoint walking down the sidewalks. The neighborhood association is looking to increase security, and add additional lighting to try and decrease crime.

Any insiders with more information?? Or news on other prominent neighborhooods regarding crime...
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Solarflare
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Username: Solarflare

Post Number: 503
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 63.69.106.3
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 12:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Suburbanites. Probably in retaliation for the arrests at Tiger Stadium.
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Urbanoutdoors
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Username: Urbanoutdoors

Post Number: 52
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 1:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I heardof a similar spike in the past few weeks in University district. Something really has to be done about the violence in the city lately its gettin bad and addin to the bad rap I try so hard to destroy.
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Gravitymachine
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Username: Gravitymachine

Post Number: 1229
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 198.208.159.18
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 1:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

need. more. police.
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Quinn
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Username: Quinn

Post Number: 819
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 69.242.213.101
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 1:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We've had some scary armed robberies over here in the past month.

Our community leadership has been working closely, and reporting to the community on their work through our yahoo groups, with the police department and our security service to stave off this onslaught.

I don't think this is a newsworthy story however...and the headline is misleading...who issues the alert? The police? The village association?

Also, it may seem like a good idea to post this news story so that people can catch the criminals, but lets give some descriptions. The story is so vague, how would anyone have information about the crimes?
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Chitaku
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Username: Chitaku

Post Number: 631
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 70.236.144.14
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 1:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Seems like crime is up everywhere on the city. I've heard of alot of happenings in Woodbridge.
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Futurecity
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Username: Futurecity

Post Number: 311
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 68.255.236.97
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 1:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think that word is out that the police are even more scarce than they were before.
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Detroitnerd
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Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 632
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 209.69.221.253
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 1:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm sure Indian Village residents are glad that their precinct headquarters is now six miles away. That was a very intelligent "reorganization."
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Southwestmap
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Username: Southwestmap

Post Number: 524
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 70.229.231.102
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 1:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Indian Village residents are glad that their precinct is now six miles away..."

Another aspect to the "intelligent re-organization" forced on reluctant Detroiters by the arrogant and sneering Chief is the eternal chaos of revolving door Commanders. It appears that the Chief is less concerned with capability when naming Commanders than she is with revenge and lesson-making.

In the new SW District (old Three and Four) we have gone through the following Commanders in four years (these are the ones I remember): Gomez, Barbieri, Parshall, Mylinarzyk, Craig, Serta and now two new guys (one for patrol and one for detectives. How can these guys possibly be knowledgable about their officers and about specific community issues when they are summarily dumped and replaced for such mistakes as refusing to contribute to the Mayor's treasury? I assure you that chaos reigns and I wonder why the press and media don't cover these stories anymore.
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Itsjeff
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Username: Itsjeff

Post Number: 6579
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 208.27.111.125
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 2:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I hate "I heard from someone" posts without real corroboration, but "I heard from someone" that part of the problem is that the county jail is overcrowded, forcing the early release of hundreds of inmates. It's thought that that is a huge factor in the uptick in property crimes this year.
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1249
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 69.129.146.186
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 2:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Would receivership help the lack - o - police problem? If so I say go for it.
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 10462
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 64.118.137.226
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 2:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My guess is that criminals have been watching the news and realize they often have an 11 hour head start.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/ news/9645340/detail.html
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65memories
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Username: 65memories

Post Number: 273
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.73.54.225
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 2:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Certainly the precinct reorganization has been a factor. It didn't help the Rosedale Park area when the 8th Pct was closed at Grand River/6 Mile and coverage delegated to the 6 Pct some three miles away.
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Solarflare
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Username: Solarflare

Post Number: 504
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 63.69.106.3
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 2:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A buddy of mine is building a structure just SE of City Airport. The site has been burglarized about 5 times in the past month, and 3 times in the past 10 days. He has caught perps twice, called 911 (sometimes multiple times for each incident), and then watched as the cops let them go both times. They told him each time that every cell in the city is full. The site is fenced, but they either just pull it down, or cut a hole in it. He's sleeping there until the job is done now. I fear for his safety.

They need more cops on the street and more cells, ASAP.

(Message edited by solarflare on August 10, 2006)
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Kiplinger
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Username: Kiplinger

Post Number: 18
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 208.44.60.32
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 2:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

while I wholeheartedly agree that we need more cops on the street I am not completely convinced that this will stop the rampant crime. A case in point is my car was stolen out of my driveway while my 8 year old child was about to get into it. A few days after the insurance company reimbursed us for the loss I saw the car driving down the street in my neighborhood. I called the police and gave them a description and the new license plate number. 2 days later my husband saw it at the gas station with the thief who told my husband he was 15. He was scared of my husband and gave up the keys to the car.
The cops could have easily found the car considering it was only a few blocks away and they had the license plate number. The thief clearly was not at all scared of the cops or what would happen to him if he was caught.
These brazen attitudes are because the criminals know that nothing will really be done to them even if caught red-handed.
We not only need more cops but we need to make an example out of these people who do get caught.
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Futurecity
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Username: Futurecity

Post Number: 312
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 68.255.236.97
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 2:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"They told him each time that every cell in the city is full"

We should build a gigantic super structure on city airport to warehouse all of the filth.
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Southwestmap
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Username: Southwestmap

Post Number: 526
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 70.229.231.102
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 2:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The cops are often punished for doing their job because their job is unpopular with the people who court votes in the city. They are tremndously hampered by local politics and the attitudes of the local courts and juries. I have been on a few juries and I know.
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Machoken
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Username: Machoken

Post Number: 1431
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 207.145.38.104
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 2:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

A few days after the insurance company reimbursed us for the loss ... He was scared of my husband and gave up the keys to the car.




I hope you paid the insurance company back.
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Urbanoutdoors
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Username: Urbanoutdoors

Post Number: 53
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 2:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

what about an anti crime/antiviolence rally with community organizations willing to set up neighborhood watch booths so that there communities can get involved. since we can't rely on cops that is probably the best option to get through to the city. Just a Thought.
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Dabirch
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Username: Dabirch

Post Number: 1790
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 208.44.117.10
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 2:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

we need to make an example out of these people who do get caught.




Public flogging? Caning? Dunking stool?
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Irish_mafia
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Username: Irish_mafia

Post Number: 588
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 70.227.219.108
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 3:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"My guess is that criminals have been watching the news and realize they often have an 11 hour head start." - Quote
______________________________ ___________________
That's it! The criminals are from Indianapolis.
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Solarflare
Member
Username: Solarflare

Post Number: 505
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 63.69.106.3
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 3:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Things could be worse:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/a rchive/0809063fat2.html

LOL
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Mind_field
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Username: Mind_field

Post Number: 608
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 75.10.3.8
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 4:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I love futurecity's idea. Hopefully Detroit's version of Alcatraz would quickly gain a legendary reputation for it's harshness and strike fear in the hearts of criminals. Make it a genuine superstructure without a chance of ever filling to capacity.

Citywide video surveillance and gunshot recognition cameras ala Chicago would do wonders dropping Detroit's unacceptable crime rate.

Crime in the city has been a crisis that gets glossed over by the exciting revitalization of downtown, midtown, and the riverfront. Something drastic obviously needs to be done to stop this "i can get away with it" mentality.
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Paulmcall
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Username: Paulmcall

Post Number: 851
Registered: 05-2004
Posted From: 68.40.119.216
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 4:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Too bad Detroit doesn't have a Rudy G. like NY did.
He stomped on a few civil liberties but got the job done.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 4769
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 198.111.165.50
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 5:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A long time ago Indian Village used to have a it's own community police force, but somehow dispanded.
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Pam
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Username: Pam

Post Number: 350
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 4.229.102.27
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 7:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The report on the news said they did have a private security force in IV.
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Justbeamensch
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Username: Justbeamensch

Post Number: 2
Registered: 07-2006
Posted From: 67.149.59.62
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 8:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My wife and I don't live in Detroit but spend a lot of time at Belle Isle and the WSU district and Eastern Market. We took our daughter and her friend to the Tiger game last evening and made the mistake of parking at Cass and Elizabeth. We got hassled twice on the way back to the car. There were lots of police on Woodward but when you get a block west you are on your own. I love Detroit but may limit my travel to daytime and be smarter about where I park.
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Wmuchris
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Username: Wmuchris

Post Number: 367
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 69.246.19.24
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 9:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They still have a security truck that rolls around pretty much all of the time. Just one person in a Ford Ranger isn't going to deter many criminals.
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Kiplinger
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Username: Kiplinger

Post Number: 19
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 69.246.52.24
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 11:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Machoken - we told the insurance company what happened. They received the car that was stolen and most likely sold it at auction.

Dabirch - Hadn't thought of thos. Not bad ideas but, I was thinking more along the lines of tougher, consistent laws.

If the local jails are full don't the Feds have lockup space? I don't necessarily agree that more jails is the answer but it might be a start.
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Superduperman
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Username: Superduperman

Post Number: 115
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 69.242.221.36
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 11:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Feds lock people up at the county jail as do most of the police precincts do in wayne county.
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Machoken
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Username: Machoken

Post Number: 1433
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 207.145.38.104
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 8:53 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

we told the insurance company what happened. They received the car that was stolen and most likely sold it at auction.




That's interesting. Did you have the choice to keep the car and give them back the money? Just curious. If I got my car back, I would rather give up the money than go through the hassle of getting a new car. Unless, of course, the insurance paid out significantly more than the car was worth.
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Bratt
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Username: Bratt

Post Number: 416
Registered: 01-2004
Posted From: 12.172.207.3
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 9:19 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well my good people. School is starting back soon and you will see crime go down some. When these kids are out of school during the summer, crime skyrockets. Instead of getting jobs, they do bad things.
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Quinn
Member
Username: Quinn

Post Number: 820
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 69.242.213.101
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 9:23 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

tisk tisk tisck it's a Chevy Colorado...
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Kiplinger
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Username: Kiplinger

Post Number: 22
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 69.246.52.24
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 9:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The stolen car had been trashed by the 15 year old thief and his friends. It had been in an accident and the back window was busted out.

The insurance company at first tried to tell us they would fix the car. We argued a bit but since the waiting period had passed and my husband had essentially done what Detroit Police should have done they were remarkably very reasonable about the whole situation. Considering the car was only 6 months old, the resale value on it was high, and we had held up our end of the deal they didn't fair too badly.
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Machoken
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Username: Machoken

Post Number: 1436
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 207.145.38.104
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 10:01 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ah, yes. That makes sense. Thanks for the info. I'm sorry you had to go through that.
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Vas
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Username: Vas

Post Number: 585
Registered: 01-2004
Posted From: 70.237.164.67
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 10:19 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mindfield, No security cameras a la Chicago. Thats a bad idea.
JustBeam--were you hasseled by panhandlers? Or something else?
I would be surprised if you would decrease your activity in the city because of pan handlers by Cass and Elizabeth.


Sounds like a variety of problems.(jails full, theft crime overlooked, less Preciencts, less Cops, bad economy).

I would have neighborhood patrols and community based eyes and ears. Its the only way, because the Cops can't do it.
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Gravitymachine
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Username: Gravitymachine

Post Number: 1231
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 198.208.159.18
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 10:27 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

I would have neighborhood patrols and community based eyes and ears. Its the only way, because the Cops can't do it.


but what good is that when the police aren't there to back you up when the problem gets to the point that "eyes and ears" aren't going to solve the problem?

ie, you see someone committing a crime, however serious it might be and the police don't/can't/come to late to deal with the problem?

edit: ...especially as those most likely to commit crimes beging to believe that given the present law enforcement situation in the city that many of these crimes can be commited with impunity. that's the most dangerous type of criminal right there..

(Message edited by gravitymachine on August 11, 2006)
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Vas
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Username: Vas

Post Number: 587
Registered: 01-2004
Posted From: 70.237.164.67
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 11:33 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There would need to be community people willing to enforce and protect beyond witnessing.

Thats what I was planning. Its a dangerous and risky situation, but what other options are there?
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Dabirch
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Username: Dabirch

Post Number: 1798
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 208.44.117.10
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 11:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Thats what I was planning. Its a dangerous and risky situation, but what other options are there?




Moving to someplace where you tax dollars pay for what is important?
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Chub
Member
Username: Chub

Post Number: 365
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 69.246.28.200
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 11:49 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What are you saying Vas? Take the law into your own hands? How do you suggest people protect and enforce beyond witnessing exactly?
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Solarflare
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Username: Solarflare

Post Number: 506
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 65.112.56.3
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 12:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Armed citizen patrols.
3 people at a time, 3 hour shifts or so, rotating between participants, each person does maybe 2 or 3 shifts a month.

All 3 stay together and patrol, maintain ready link to police, 911, lawyers. Radio, cell phones, spotlight, well-defined defensive rules of engagement.
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Solarflare
Member
Username: Solarflare

Post Number: 507
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 65.112.56.3
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 12:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm sure there are plenty of existing programs that could be looked to for examples.

here
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Dabirch
Member
Username: Dabirch

Post Number: 1799
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 208.44.117.10
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 12:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why the hell would anybody want to live in a neighborhood where the had to have "well-defined defenisive rules of engagement"?

I understand community policing. I understand citizen patrols. But who would ever move here if part of the sales process was --


quote:

by the way, 2 nights a month you have to carry a gun and walk around the neighborhood with a few others, because the cops don't work. You'll be fine though, because we have well-defined rules of engagement.

And don't worry about the 69 mills you pay on the $650k house you just bought, they do a great job with the garbage Thursday mornings.

Oh and you owe another $24 for the season snow plow. Lord knows the city won't do it.




Yeah, that help bring a lot of residents in.
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Solarflare
Member
Username: Solarflare

Post Number: 508
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 65.112.56.3
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 12:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"...and that's our defiladed community center over there, and behind us you'll see Forward Operating Post Bravo. Oh, and Tuesday's are Picnic Day!"
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Jams
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Username: Jams

Post Number: 3589
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.74.0.201
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 12:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm frightened living in this area of WV & IV.





Not because of the criminals, but the vigilantes who think they can keep me safe.
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Quinn
Member
Username: Quinn

Post Number: 826
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 64.139.64.80
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 12:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We're organizing a citizen's patrol...but we'll hardly be vigilantes. Just citizens with walkie-talkies and cell phones with 911 pre-dialed.
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Solarflare
Member
Username: Solarflare

Post Number: 509
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 65.112.56.3
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 12:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm mostly being facetious with the "armed" aspect; I'm sure the legal ramifications alone would be mind-boggling, to say nothing of the likely-hood of an accident.


quote:

Just citizens with walkie-talkies and cell phones with 911 pre-dialed.



I'd think that would be a pretty good deterent when criminals are considering what their next target is...
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Patrick
Member
Username: Patrick

Post Number: 3543
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 65.222.10.3
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 1:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Close the side streets. Make it so that there are 2 ways in or out. That would work. might not look good, but oh well.
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Gravitymachine
Member
Username: Gravitymachine

Post Number: 1232
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 198.208.159.18
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 1:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

from what i've heard, there is a contingent of IV dwellers bent on making it a gated community, closing off the side streets would be the first step for sure
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Dabirch
Member
Username: Dabirch

Post Number: 1800
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 208.44.117.10
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 1:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

there is a contingent of IV dwellers bent on making it a gated community




And if that contingent wins, then the HACK crew, the ones that have really helped to hold the community together, will be on their way out.
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Jams
Member
Username: Jams

Post Number: 3591
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.74.0.201
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 1:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just what I want, a gated and armed neighborhood.
Shit, I may as well live in Wabeek.

We've survived over a hundred years as a neighborhood, my guess is we'll survive this as well.
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Jams
Member
Username: Jams

Post Number: 3592
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.74.0.201
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 1:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dabirch
Are'nt you supposed to be bringing a load of contraband Coffee Crisps across the Marine City ferry today?
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Dabirch
Member
Username: Dabirch

Post Number: 1801
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 208.44.117.10
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 1:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Shhh...don't tell.

"Nothing to declare but these coffee crisps...oh, and a .22 that I use for fishing."
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Susanarosa
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Username: Susanarosa

Post Number: 1061
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 208.39.170.78
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 1:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wait? Do they sell Coffee Crisps in Sombra? I knew there was a reason I should stop there...
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Swingline
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Username: Swingline

Post Number: 563
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 172.145.179.120
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 2:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The recent violent crime incicents in IV are clearly the work of a limited group of perpetrators who are targeting the neighborhood. Incidents such as these have been rare (but not unheard of) over the years. IV is a beautiful neighborhood and crime does not significantly detract from the quality of life there. The recent problems will be short term if the perpetrators can be caught.

Now, if only something could be done about the crackheads committing the property crime in the area . . . .
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Jams
Member
Username: Jams

Post Number: 3595
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.74.0.201
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 2:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Now, if only something could be done about the crackheads committing the property crime in the area . . . .




Or Delray, EEV, Woodbridge, University District, Livonia, Macomb County.......ad infintum
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Aiw
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Username: Aiw

Post Number: 5760
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 209.216.150.127
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 2:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Do they sell Coffee Crisps in Sombra?




Sure they do. If your going somewhere as exciting as Sombra, don't skip Mooretown or Courtright!
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Vas
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Username: Vas

Post Number: 589
Registered: 01-2004
Posted From: 70.237.164.67
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 3:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

'Death Wish 4'
"The Detroit Renissance"

"...that which he wanted to purge was also what made him willing to challenge...which would get the better...only time would tell..."
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Susanarosa
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Username: Susanarosa

Post Number: 1062
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 208.39.170.78
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 3:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm actually more of a just west of Corunna girl.
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Livedog2
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Username: Livedog2

Post Number: 881
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 24.223.133.177
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 3:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What's wromg with shooting the perps?

Livedog2
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Urbanoutdoors
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Username: Urbanoutdoors

Post Number: 55
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 4:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If people are willing I would Love to build a capacity for change by making our neighborhoods safer using Neighborhood patrols. Since I live in corktown and its a small area it would be Ideal to see if something of this could work on some scale.
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Schoolcraft
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Username: Schoolcraft

Post Number: 4
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 70.190.24.108
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 5:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow. I like the gated community idea for IV.
The world is backwards...out here in Arizona they are everywhere...where crime is lower...also...i like our tent cities for prisons...no building costs and cheap to operate too!
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Thecarl
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Username: Thecarl

Post Number: 916
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.14.30.175
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 6:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i like the idea of a community patrol, but if the police have poor response times, the citizens are at risk. in fact, even with a *good* response time - say, ninety seconds - the citizens are at risk. a lot can happen in that ninety seconds, especially when criminals are eager for confrontation.

i don't mean to naysay the idea of community patrols; i'm just thinking the whole thing through. i believe the theory that the main aspect of security is visibility. criminals don't want to be seen because they don't want to be caught; they don't want to be caught because they don't want to be punished. but, the process unravels when people don't fear punishment, feel they can beat the rap, get sprung on probation or early release, can get out on bail, skip bail, provide false identification, intimidate witnesses, eliminate witnesses, etc.

at some point you need to stop depending on police, and figure out how to make the community decent. police should be available to control *exceptional* situations; when crime becomes commonplace, a new strategy is needed. unfortunately, the mayor and city council are awash in arrogance and detached from the community. they're too busy engaging in quid-pro-quo politics and business dealings to engage the city in a meaningful way. so, we have the situation we have.
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Detroitej72
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Username: Detroitej72

Post Number: 85
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 66.184.3.44
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 9:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ted Nugent always say that an armed society is a polite society. Sometime I think maybe if the crimanals had to think twice about their perspective victims being armed, they may consider a new line of work.

Or maybe they would just move on to the next unarmed person.
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Justbeamensch
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Username: Justbeamensch

Post Number: 3
Registered: 07-2006
Posted From: 67.149.59.62
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 10:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Vas, you're right. Panhandlers I can deal with. My favorite ones are outside Avalon Bakery and I see them every Wednesday. These gentlemen were a bit more confrontational and seemed to enjoy what they were doing. I think Mr. Illitch could exert some influence from the considerable revenue he gets from those $8 cups of beer and request some patrols and better lighting. I know the cops are spread pretty thin but they seem to congregate on Woodward and lay off the adjacent blocks.
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Jams
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Username: Jams

Post Number: 3598
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.21.47.54
Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 5:23 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Ted Nugent always say that an armed society is a polite society. Sometime I think maybe if the crimanals had to think twice about their perspective victims being armed, they may consider a new line of work.

Or maybe they would just move on to the next unarmed person.




Or maybe they just shoot first.
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Michigansheik
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Username: Michigansheik

Post Number: 163
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 68.60.139.11
Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 10:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i live on elmwood park and we've had two attempted car jackings, three muggins, and two attempted break-ins and one successful break in in the last two months. prior to this we've had nothing for 3 years. something is up. the police reorg has not helped, but i can't blame the spike on it either.
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Dougw
Member
Username: Dougw

Post Number: 1276
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.73.205.173
Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 4:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Sounds like a variety of problems.(jails full, theft crime overlooked, less Preciencts, less Cops, bad economy).



True, but of these the most serious problem IMO is the full jails, not the cops/precincts/etc. That really drives a lot of other problems, such as the cop who lets the petty thief/scrapper go because he knows the jails are too full. Hearing stories about the early release of hundreds of inmates from the county jail is just maddening.

http://www.ashleysdream.org/re sources/articles/2005-Jail-Ove rcrowding-Spills-Inmates-Into- Streets.pdf

The are other issues such as the economy, but blaming "the economy" is kind of a red herring because there's not really anything we can do about it, and I'd still say it's overrated as a root cause.

All in all I would say the precinct reorg has not been too bad. I'd guess the response times in our neighborhood are about the same now as they were a few years ago before the reorg... squad cars are typically deployed through the disctrict. The main downside is having to drive a lot farther to the district station if you need to file a report.
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Susanarosa
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Username: Susanarosa

Post Number: 1063
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 70.236.163.239
Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 5:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The valet at the Rattlesnake Club down was robbed at gunpoint and three cars were stolen out of the lot...

That's always nice.
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K_solomon
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Username: K_solomon

Post Number: 21
Registered: 07-2006
Posted From: 69.212.214.81
Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 7:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I like the idea of IV being a gated community. Im sure the property values would shoot up.
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Ray
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Username: Ray

Post Number: 762
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 69.215.66.172
Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 8:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If the city can't deliver basic services, it should be disbanded so that the still viable areas can form their own municipal governments and handle policing.

The city of Detroit could snap its fingers and have effecive policing, just like thousands of other cities throughout the country. There's a reason why this nightmare goes on and on and on. And that reason is that the political elite in Detroit don't want tough law enforcement. It's all tied up in their minds with racism. This is why the police department is so ineffective.

It certainly isn't for lack of money. The city has lavished billions of dollars on its bloated civil service for 50 plus years. I would eliminate every administrative job in the city, outsource whatever pathetic quantum of work the eliminated employees were performing and divert all the savings to the police deparment.

The tragedy is that crime leads to economic isolation and poverty. So this insane policy of weak policing is inflicing incalcuable harm on the most vulnerable people in the city.
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 1703
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 4.229.132.214
Posted on Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 1:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It could not be said any better then you just did Ray.Sadly not a goddamn thing will be done and Detroit will continue until.........
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Mrkick
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Username: Mrkick

Post Number: 7
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.215.245.114
Posted on Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 4:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote
The are other issues such as the economy, but blaming "the economy" is kind of a red herring because there's not really anything we can do about it, and I'd still say it's overrated as a root cause.


you have got to be kidding, its no coincedence that crime is lower in well to do communities. If i'm driving a Beamer back to my 5 bedroom 8 bath dwelling, i'm not doing very many breaking and entering jobs.
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 1709
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 4.229.132.176
Posted on Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 5:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So what is the connection?.......Could it be that better off or safer communities simply will not put up with crime? Again I submit Reford as an example,it is not a rich place, but I am sure the crime rate is much lower than the rest of Detrooit because they don't tolerate bullshit.
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Dougw
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Username: Dougw

Post Number: 1277
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 69.215.255.193
Posted on Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 5:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

you have got to be kidding, its no coincedence that crime is lower in well to do communities.



No, I meant the cyclical changes in the economy, for example the auto industry not doing as well over the last few years... I'm saying that effect is overrated. I agree that there is obviously a big difference between well to do and poorer communities.

(Message edited by Dougw on August 13, 2006)
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Jerome81
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Username: Jerome81

Post Number: 1065
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 71.227.67.110
Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 12:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It is unfortunate, but I agree with Ray that tough policing is viewed as racist. Its too bad that city leaders can't/won't see it as being a huge problem that continues to kill the city.

If you commit the crime, you should be punished. What's so racist about that?

As much as I love the city, I'm not so sure I'd put up with any of the BS. I applaud those who do and choose to stick it out. The problem is that there are so many other places in this world where you never have to put up with such garbage, and if/when you do, you can count on the law enforcement and courts to deal with it the way it should be. This is the way it works in most other large cities throughout the country, why should Detroit be the exception?

The answer is it shouldn't be. And why does the government not do anything about it, and deeper than that, why do the citizens not demand change/vote in representatives who will? Why has it become acceptable? It shouldn't be accepted as just part of big city living, because bottom line is that most big cities don't have anywhere near the problem Detroit has.

Its damn frustrating. I can't understand sometimes how many people are strong enough to keep it going. And the worst part is that it still doesn't seem to matter.

What's the city going to do? Keep up the same garbage that hasn't worked for the last 50 years? Keep it up hoping that it will just take care of itself while almost everyone who really does care and really has tried harder just give up and walk away, leaving a dump of criminals?

The more/longer I hear about this stuff, the more I'm convinced an asshole, take charge, hardline government is the ONLY way to at least get a grip on the issues here. Otherwise it will continue and continue and continue, until all the good people are gone.

The really sad part is there are a lot of folks who already believe that.
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Southwestmap
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Username: Southwestmap

Post Number: 532
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 70.229.231.102
Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 9:27 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ray is right. If you serve on a jury in Detroit you will see that the sympathy is for the criminal and the animosity is toward the police. The juries I have been on get "revenge" on the police that they resent by letting the criminal go. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face!
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Swingline
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Username: Swingline

Post Number: 569
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 172.128.243.55
Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 10:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have served on juries in Detroit too. I have also observed the tendency of the jurors I served with to presume that the police investigation was corrupt and that the defendant was being victimized by the system. I'm not suggesting that jurors should presume the opposite. I'm stating that jurors should uphold the oath that they take to be impartial and consider only the evidence.
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Quinn
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Username: Quinn

Post Number: 839
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 64.139.64.80
Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 10:22 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I disagree with you guys...served on two juries in the past 5 years and both times the evidence pointed clearly to the accused. NO thought about police corruption. Both were at Frank Murphy.
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Swiburn
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Username: Swiburn

Post Number: 10
Registered: 07-2006
Posted From: 35.10.67.132
Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 11:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I drove through Indian Village on this past bright and sunny Saturday and noticed that there are no children playing or riding bikes, nobody outside talking to neighbors, nothing but an eerie quiet. Seminole and Burns Avenues are bordered by rundown houses, and I didn't see any nearby playground for children. I get the feeling that these enclaves such as Rosedale Park and Indian Village are simply houses where the residents go to work and then come home and lock up . They really aren't in any better situation than somebody that lives in a "slum." The Indian Village people just have more money. It's a hard way to exist, especially if you are a single woman. I kind of doubt that many of those live there.
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Gogo
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Username: Gogo

Post Number: 1371
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 198.208.251.24
Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 12:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Swiburn - I don't think its fair to judge a neighborhoods vibrancy on one drive through. I can vouche that there are constantly people walking, jogging, biking, and out doing yardwork most days. In fact, just after this recent crime wave and as villagers were extremely vigilant I expected that there would be less people out and about and found it to be just the opposite. I'm seeing just as many if not more people out these days.

A lot of Indian Village residents like their alcohol, I suspect early on saturday most people in the neighborhood have hang overs and are still in bed. Come back another time.
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Eastsidedog
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Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 708
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 69.220.142.7
Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 2:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Agreed Gogo.

Swiburn, I don't know your background but it's hard to understand how vibrant and close-knit the neighborhoods are in Detroit until you live in one. It's not surprising that people want to stay at any cost. The strong sense of community is really impressive. To a lot of people in these neighborhoods, it's much more than a place to go when you leave work. Most of these residents are very passionate about their houses, their neighborhood and their city. When you buy a home in one of these neighborhoods you get quite a welcoming, and it's not hard to become very good friends with your neighbors.
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Swingline
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Username: Swingline

Post Number: 571
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 172.144.153.150
Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 4:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Swiburn, I also think that your drive thru was somewhat misleading. While there are plenty of school age children in Indian Village, it is not at all like a cul de sac neighborhood commonly found in newer suburbs where literally every home will have children. Also, the lots in IV are rather large with large backyards that have extensive patios and gardens. That is where much of the neighborhood activity will be found. There are a surprising number of swimming pools in IV.

One feature of IV that may have influenced your impression was the absence of automobiles in the neighborhood. With alleys on many blocks and almost every property containing a detached garage in the rear of the property, you will find very few automobiles parked on the street or in driveways. This enhances the physical beauty of the neighborhood but can suggest that there is not much activity.
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Dabirch
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Username: Dabirch

Post Number: 1806
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 208.44.117.10
Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 4:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eastsidedog -

Sorry about calling you the wrong name yesterday -- thought I was driving down Field for a second.

It will never happen again...
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Eastsidedog
Member
Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 709
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 69.220.142.7
Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 6:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's OK Dabirch. But I'm gonna hold you to that. :-)
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Dougw
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Username: Dougw

Post Number: 1280
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 136.1.1.101
Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 6:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:


quote:

there is a contingent of IV dwellers bent on making it a gated community


And if that contingent wins, then the HACK crew, the ones that have really helped to hold the community together, will be on their way out.

As someone involved with security efforts in the neighborhood I can say that Indian Village will most likely never be a true gated community, so the HACK partiers (myself included on occasion) have nothing to fear. There are simply too many obstacles, such as major streets cutting through, political opposition, even opposition from within the neighborhood. Plus it would be a
pain to have to always enter the neighborhood at, say, Jefferson & Iroquois if you lived up near Mack.

There are a lot of smaller efforts that can make a difference with safety, though. Better street lighting, security patrols, neighborhood patrols, cameras, ensuring that any vacant homes are put up for sale, adding gates to just an alley, working with the precinct on specific incidents, etc. There's not really a single "silver bullet" solution.
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Alexei289
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Username: Alexei289

Post Number: 1211
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.61.183.223
Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 7:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

maybe IV should think about expanding?... maybe adding neighboring streets into the association, fixing up the surrounding neighborhoods..

Perhaps making East and West village part of the same security, lighting, association... ect.
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Swiburn
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Username: Swiburn

Post Number: 11
Registered: 07-2006
Posted From: 35.10.67.132
Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 11:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for responses to my Indian Village posting-I'm from a city background in Detroit. The neighborhood certainly looks better than Boston and Chicago Blvds-even better than the Boston Blvd house of my youth. But the surrounding area is not good, the tax rate is horrendous, and I've been hearing about the "coming rebirth of downtown Detroit" since the Renaissance Center was built.
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Kiplinger
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Username: Kiplinger

Post Number: 27
Registered: 06-2006
Posted From: 208.44.60.32
Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 11:59 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eastsidedog - love your comment. Agreed.
That's exactly why we've stayed in Detroit even with all the issues. It's nice to hear something positive about the City.
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Gogo
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Username: Gogo

Post Number: 1372
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 198.208.251.24
Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 12:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

I'm from a city background in Detroit.




Maybe you should explore similar neighborhoods in other cities. I often explore the nice neighborhoods with comparable houses in Chicago and Toronto when I'm there and I rarely come across "kids playing the street" as you described, in some of the nicest areas with big homes in those cities. Even Grosse Pointe and Birmingham lack the abundance of people milling around as you seem to expect Indian Village to have. Most homes in nice areas have nice back yards.

Nevertheless, because of IV proximity to West Village and the market and other businesses, I do tend to see a lot more people walking than I do in GP (besides lakeshore drive) or Birmingham's residential streets.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 7738
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.159.19
Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 1:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Seems to me kids don't play in the street like they used to. Maybe it is the electronics, bigger homes, more activities, etc but kids playing the neighborhood doesn't seem to be as prevalent as it was 15-20 years ago.

When I was a kid the options were playing with friends in the neighborhood, pick games of sports or if you were lucky having a friend with an Atari 2600.

Playing in the neighborhood seems to have slipped beyond many other activities.

I'm I seeing something that isn't the case or do others agree.
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Eastsidedog
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Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 710
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 69.220.142.7
Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 1:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Alexei289, Neighboring streets will probably never be added to the association but I can assure you that West Village is on very good terms with Indian Village, especially since WV has resurged in popularity in the last few years. Many people in WV go to hack parties and are friends with folks in IV. Also Mike Tyson who lives in IV is the developer behind English Village just West of WV (97 luxury townhouses going for $285k+ and they are selling nicely). Also West Villagers and Indian VIllagers are involved in the development of East Village (obviously East of IV). So far about four market rate houses have been built on Leach st with plans for hundreds more. Unfortunately they have been selling very slowly as that is not as popular as the area West of IV. Oh yeah and my wife and I bought our house from an IV resident - it was a rental prior to us buying it. In short, residents in IV are very actively developing the area around the neighborhood and with significant success I might add.

Regarding the security force, Dusing Security and Surveilance, many residents in both IV and WV have their alarm system which also comes with the added perk of the security truck driving by every so often. My wife and I for one have DSS and they patrol very aggressively. They have chased off a couple wierdos hanging out on our corner in the last 2 years and the driver waves to us every time he drives by.

DougW, many people disagree with gating off the alleys, especially when many use them to access their cars and garages. Also, utility companies use the alleys to access power lines which makes it problematic. I think it is better to neatly maintain them. When they are closed off they tend to become ill-maintained which can become an eyesore and harbor shady activity. I would bet that the more use the alleys enjoy the less crime will occur there.

Oh and thanks Kiplinger. I never thought living in a neighborhood would be so different from living downtown. But I like the differences. :-)

(Message edited by eastsidedog on August 15, 2006)
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Jams
Member
Username: Jams

Post Number: 3623
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.73.4.135
Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 1:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eastsidedog,
My pink flamingos from my backyard are gone and I know you walk the dog on my street. Any correlation? :-)
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Eastsidedog
Member
Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 711
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 69.220.142.7
Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 4:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes it's true. My dog eats pink flamingos.
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Patrick
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Username: Patrick

Post Number: 3549
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.208.37.134
Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 7:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Drive thrrough GP on a Saturday as well. Dead as hell. This isn't just an IV thing going on here. Kids would rather be online or inside eating these days.
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Eastsidedog
Member
Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 713
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 70.236.182.122
Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 11:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good point Patrick but their are exceptions. Drive down the streets around me in WV and you'll see kids everywhere. On my street they open the fire hydrant and play in the water on 95 degree days. Central air is unheard of in these parts. Even if they have video games it's too damn hot inside to play them.

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